 It's good to come to Ireland when you can meet one of your experts your advisors actually So Brian Hone is one of the advisors to the European cyber crime Center Well, we actually trying to reach out to a private sector to academia to To the big businesses in order to get more Hands-on front line experience about what is going on which we know We are not always able to see from our ivory tower in the Hague Even though that we actually spent the most of our times outside the Hague Cyber crime I'm in a good mood today actually So I have these two speeches the one that is very very fearful and dark and the one that is just slightly more Optimistic and I'll take the optimistic ones today. Yeah There is and I'm we are sometimes in the discussion I'm considering are we hyping this too much are we are we talking too much about failure and mistakes? That that that people lose actually interest and confidence and say well It doesn't matter what I do anyway because everybody you get breached them And are we spending too much wrong money on on security? And I wish that I could give you a clear answer my my intuition tells me no. I think that we need to To every day to discuss this because there is a number of drivers that will change the world as we know it now Into the future world, which is not so far away There's so many drivers that we will have no influence and especially not from small countries like Ireland or or Denmark or other ones That will shape the future in a different way that we used to So it will mean changes for for the way that the police works It will make changes for the way that that you do and act as a Citizens and what you can require for the businesses and that will give us a lot of new opportunities and loads of growth and very much Welfare also, but it also requires that we just sit down and we talk about this without too many emotions Because emotions try tends to carry us a bit away And we react in a way that is not always connected with the brain Which I'll advise you to actually interact with in this matter So I'll give you an indication of where I think that the internet will go What the threat will be and how we mitigate it because of course there is also possibilities so the digital age and here you see our very Nice headquarters, it's not paid by the by the EU taxpayers. I might add here It's paid by the Dutch taxpayers, but but but but but you know the Dutch They don't do anything for free So if they get a thousand agents to work in in this building They also after eight nine years have a break even and then they they they get their money back But the good thing about it is that this is state of the art building and state of the art Equipment that we have it's just very very very good and I cannot complain as as a civil servant This is probably the nicest building. I've ever been working in This is the internet every given day. This is how it looks like now and today This is where we will see everybody who uses the internet. I would be able to make you a virtual prediction about how it will look like in five years and then you can put it a lot of dots here Many more here and huge numbers out here We will grow from two point seven billion users of the internet to four billion users We will also grow from having eight billion devices connected to the internet to have 24 billion devices connected And I will not be always be directing the machine the machine will communicate with other machines via the internet without me knowing it for instance my iPhone here knows exactly where I am because I've given it access like Anybody else to all kinds of information so it knows. I'm here It also knows from my agenda that I need to be in the airport at a certain moment It will warn me if I'm still here and should have been moving to the airport because it can tell me that But it can automatically actually reboot my flight if I want to if the setting is right It can do this without me interfering. So there's a lot of communication going on Already between machines and this will increase with the internet of everything. So we will in the future not have the exclusivity to be without any connection I guess that will be sensors all over for the good So when I'm walking around my phone will tell me now you are close to your favorite restaurants or Maybe a shop that have a bargain on whatever you want That will be all this kind of communication because there will be communication in the background But this will also create a much wider attack surface that the one that we see now and Ryan will be one of the advocates for Trying to minimize the attack surface. He wants very very very little and very narrow attack surface But by engaging with your fridge your car your home your smartphones Everything is online you create loads of end-point accesses also unfortunately for criminals So while the internet is is very very good. It also has built-in weaknesses I was in I can and you know I can is the closest organization that comes to who owns the internet They were the one who invented it. It was a small American NGO and now it's grown big and now the Americans is actually stepping out of this because they feel that they've been criticized So it's it's much more intergovernmental and it's much more a bigger organization and they said the internet as we see it today is a mess If we could do if we could do what we want to do We will close the internet down for one year and we will rebuild it and it will be both secure and safe and faster You know this will never happen But but but this is just to tell you that it was meant to be a small thing that that grew if you're a criminal What do you think of? What is your driver unless you are a serial killer or a rapist then you are in it for the money So if we look a bit to the income distribution worldwide, you can see where the money is and with the more blue the more money So where do you think that the criminals will go if they want to have more money? They will of course not try to steal from a beggar. They will steal from where the money is Unfortunately money is in the European Union region. It's in the places in the Far East and in the US It will of course also change, but this is the picture right now So when you see four billion users the most of the of the government and the businesses will see more markets I am a cop. I see more criminals unfortunately So the the ability to do crime is different in cyberspace You know that if you you live, I guess in a safe country you would say that Ireland is Rather safe you would say that the police commissioner has the adequate resources He would probably not agree completely in this, but he has the adequate resources to maintain security as an acceptable level So you will still have homicides. You will still have maybe Robberies and rapes, but it's still an acceptable level. Of course not for for the for the victim, but for the society That's because that we have said that this territory of the Republic of Ireland Needs so many police officers to create this and they need these tools and laws to create this level of security Not more than we might have more security, but less freedom. So we have found the balance The crime only occurs if you have a perpetrator close to the crime scene in the physical world So if I want to kill the previous commission I need to be rather close to him if I want to rub you or steal you or Whatever I can do with you. I also need to be a bit closer I was not more specific, but it always requires that you are close to the crime scene So we have our own criminals in Ireland They are Irish and then you probably like the British will will claim that the rest of the evilness comes from the European Union and they travel into your nice country and they steal left and right and What you can do is of course you can target that and you can do something and you can as to a certain extent border yourself out of that crime and You can also arrest a perpetrator and you can put him in front of an Irish court and you can sentence him But not in cyber crime Nobody will move one inch to steal your ideas your identity your money your reputation Nobody will move an inch So they will conduct crime from the outside towards nice people here And they will not even do it from our good friends in the rest of the European Union where we have very good cooperation agreement So we will even get criminals extradited due to the European arrest warrant from other countries We normally never extradite people, but you do this in the Europe. No, they will operate from outside The European Union and I can already tell you where they operate from in our cases They operate from Russian speaking territory outside the European Union It might not continue to be in that way it might change, but this is the picture that we see right now In the normal world I can only kill One at a time I can only rob one house at a time in cyber crime Brian can set up a system and he can Portscan and he can access your one million computers in 20 countries in 20 minutes while he's sleeping This is a difference in magnitude and an impact So the police way of thinking crime scene a border Jurisdiction is more or less that in cyberspace. We have to find other ways to prevent it and to protect and To see if we can can manage to make it unattractive to be a cybercriminal This one will only work if If I had a mouse, which I don't have I don't know if this Does so I might be able to show you this This is this is the world now This is attacks and intrusions on the internet and these are where they Originate from some these are the receivers on the left side You can see the countries that Originates the attacks from here. You can see who receives the attacks and here You can see the IP addresses and what kinds of tool is done So while you and I speak here and we think that we are relatively safe. This is going on every day This is only look at Africa So if anybody thought that nothing was going on in Africa you have to rethink but this is because that the criminals are operating from these Areas not necessarily at this poor country is very criminal This is only based on less than 1% of the activity of the internet this picture So you can this is a multiplication of activity But it shows you the activity that the criminals are doing every day And it's also not a precise picture because you cannot always follow and again Brian is an expert here You cannot always follow a trace and see that you go back to a certain computer It could be your computer who is the attack computer because you're part of a botnet But you don't even know it your computer has been compromised The only thing that the criminals wants is a part of your bandwidth to utilize this to paralyze somebody else So we could all be a part and sometimes you cannot always follow that Some statistics new internet users every year internet users worldwide. It's all ready not 2.7 But 2.9 look at the month on the online threats worldwide Look at the websites that have been hacked so far this year email sent just today and then Look at how big these numbers are if you think we can only protect us out of this You probably have to rethink So What are what are the challenges the challenges is for me that we have two types of cybercrime the traditional cyber crime Which can only be done on a computer. This is hacking cracking. This is intrusion this came with a new tool and then the other Part of the coin the cyber facilitated crime This is that organized criminals are now using the internet to optimize the business model and to utilize it to even earn more money And I will show you a bit what what they do later If we look at access at the internet, you will see four big groups of actors extremist left and right You see them they they are active. This are not my major concern. This is for the intelligence services to look at this Then you have terrorist related activity. There is no terrorism Going on at the internet right now There is no evidence, but Terry start just like everybody else They use it for radicalization facilitating and for earning money to support their activities So you will see loads of closed forums where you might not go in where you will see 16 year old Ruth people young immigrants who don't really feel integrated in in where they are Looking at beheadings of American soldiers again and again and again and snipers operating in Iran or Iraq Which kills soldiers? Very efficiently and they create this kind of wish to be part of that to have some pride And you will see this this is a huge problem. We see it right now in increasing numbers with the foreign fighters to Syria Basically on both both sides both them the ones who support easiest and the other ones who wants to fight easiest Then we have state sponsored activity and of course we need to talk about that the best hackers in the world are states It's not criminals. It's states and they are always a bit ahead Technologically wise than than the criminals but not more than one to two years and then the criminals catch up So and they also use this the spillovers. This is also not my primary concern I think that I've said millions of times before that states Spying each other they've done this since the Viking age and they will continue to do so in these Online times what they look at in our countries and what they will be monitoring in your country is your weaknesses in your critical infrastructure So they will be looking at ways in order to if Which nobody believes but if there will be a war they will of course start in cyberspace with a disinformation campaign To to tell you that something is going on in this side But it's actually in that side and then they will take down your grits They will take down your communication your television your lights your control towers your systems and it will become dark and Then the soldiers will come this is how well But this is why we have the military a defense and intelligence and they will take care of that and that's another business There's no reason to be afraid of this because this has will always happen And in the old days it just happened with physical spets nuts that would do this and kill key Persons and and do whatever now it's just done online. But of course, it's an area that somebody needs to look at I'm fully Booked with looking at organized crime. I can tell you so I have enough on my plate And this is what we are looking at basically and as I told you there are two Crimes cyber crime traditional and cyber-facilitated crime And they operate now in a way that they use hacking trojans malware spyware He does attacks bot stock that encryption virtual currencies and what is worse crime as a service I've been quoted but I said that I believe that there is a limited numbers of very very very good Programmers in the world, and I still believe that this is not a huge number of people who have this ability And we have seen a number of those being taken out by the American police or the Russian police And you can see the impact immediately Because they are missed they are missed in the way to drive certain forms of malware but of course other ones will take over so you have groups and I think that we have a Short presentation on this that you have malware producers are very very good programmers Excellent programmers And they send malware to another group which will test this malware if it can penetrate the various Antiviruses, so if you have roughly I think 72 antivirus products on Working right now they will test it against this then they will send the message back and say it will go through 90% but not all if you tweak it like this it will and they will send it back and then They will deploy the malware normally as crime as a service from bulletproof host services and Bulletproof means that it's not always easy to identify and here you see the pyramid But in cyber crime What's important for us is To monitor this area because as soon as it gets down here everybody can be a cyber expert in cyber You can be a cyber criminal my experts always say sweet tools if you're low in money Give me one thousand euros and I will give you thirty thousand back next month It's probably right he can do this and he can even give me three hundred thousand It's so easy because you can rent all your tools and you can act as a cyber expert And they have everything for sale also money mules They operate in two areas the deep net and the dark net and the dark market is Dominantly tour-based service and for those of you who don't know the tour base It is a system that they this able the ability to identify the IP address that is doing the communication So I can follow the activity, but we cannot identify. This is done by the American Navy Thank you very much for this and and it's very efficient and it cannot be Be penetrated that there can of course be some kind of vulnerability is from time to time, but in general terms it cannot The the idea was good. The idea was a very good idea to have a place where? Freedom fighters and other ones could communicate secure from governments. We do not like Unfortunately the criminal saw the opportunity also it was very very good also to operate crime here where you cannot be discovered So what if you want? I don't know how things works here in this country But if you want to have a joint or you want to Have some cocaine to the nose or whatever maybe I can ask the police chief where you would where you would go if you Want to to buy stolen goods? I guess I guess you have areas where you can buy things This is done physically Now you do it online Now you go to Silk Road, too, and you say I want some cannabis. It should be this quality I want some LSD and I also want that and it will be delivered to you by the mailman or by a career And you can pay with virtual currencies everything can be done online This is a business model that of course makes it much safer to be and I will guess that that big a distribution of Drugs will be done by drones in the future that you create a distance between you I would at least not why should I go over several borders if I could And here you have one kilo Brian in your garden and I'll drop it from 100 feet Above and if there is anybody take it it won't be me at least you can buy guns You can buy stolen goods you can buy credit card information. You can buy identities. You can buy whatever you want here Now you will say like I said But if you cannot identify as police, how can I then if I want to buy something be sure that this guy will not cheat me And they will crooks are always crooks. So they'll also cheat you if they can of course So you might order five grams of cocaine you pay you never receive it Fine. What have they done? They have of course created a trip advisor system for this so they rate The various Services you can get five stars if you deliver in time and whatever and you can get one star and the warning So you can actually search and you can also get a direction to who's really good and who has the best Cannabis in the world and here are some of the web pages if you want to have inspiration to where you can go and Then we have another service which is more in the cyber crimes area the cyber crime guys They don't use the tour service. They use The deep net and they use instead peer-to-peer and forums So they discuss together in closed forums, which is very very difficult for law enforcement to get in We are of course not idiots. So we try to get in And we sneak in if we can and we try to be but it's it's it's very very difficult The normal rule here is that if you don't upload something yourself in very short time, you're kicked out they know that this is people who shouldn't be there and it's very difficult for police legally to Upload child sexual abuse material or very dangerous malware because we are simply not allowed to it and rightfully so But that simply is just a practical a problem, but you can go there and You can go in and you can discuss if you have something to offer. So we have created a play field Which is rather secure for criminals globally, not just an island or in the European Union, but globally To share ideas and knowledge on how to become even better criminals and how to avoid any kind of penetration And we were friends in these sites. We will also see police material circulated. So if they grab something I always said that loose lips think ships So if we cannot keep a secret we need To improve this because they will also use our weaknesses to try to bypass us and Here are all the various sites and and if you pay for malware you even get an SLA So if it doesn't work, you have somebody to complain to and that will help you tweak it a bit So that you better can get your botnet to work So this is it's a bit about the challenges that we see So what happens is that that it's deployed to a number of criminal groups as you can see here and And these criminal groups will download the malware and then they will use it They could be tech savvy or they could be organized criminal groups that just are muscling in because this is the new profit area There's a high profit a very very low risk unfortunately in cyber crime So this is what what we see here and and then they distribute it and it could be in in click forward It could be in In ransomware it could be in Trojans and whatever it could also be in APT's and this could be in more sophisticated attacks And even your inbox if somebody knows your email address and maybe your credit card number This combination can give big troubles not just because you you say that Maybe my credit card company will pay, but you could also get a subscription to a new phone to a new New service to maybe an illegal service to a porn site to whatever Done on this and to get rid of this when the bills start, you know Dripping into your mailbox is very very difficult and many people have huge problems And you actually see people where the criminals they conduct crime in their identities and of course the police jump For the easy and the quick win and if you said I'm innocent everybody in jails. I innocent You know this so we always caught the wrong one So to persuade this can be sometimes difficult. That's also why I always urge you to take privacy very very very Serious, I think everybody has a right to privacy The question is does everybody have a right to anonymity and And I think this is is more questionable So What you see normally is the tip of the iceberg This is where all the nice things are going on and all the bad things are here where I Unfortunately spend the most of my time together with with the experts and this is a booming business And this will be an increasing business and we need to do something about it and of course we are so there will be budget command and control centers and There will be lots of money cash out either in cash or in in credit card in Prepaid credit card with no identity or through money mules or virtual currencies, which we also see there's a huge boom in virtual currencies For criminals it doesn't Say that everything going on in virtual currencies is criminal by far no, but it's an unregulated area and if it because it's unregulated it tends to be Attractive for those who don't want to have the identity known and you can actually also Reverse and you can erase your transaction trail So this is what what we do in the European cyber crime Center to to assist and we have in EU a cyber crime strategy So I have seven departments in total for an operations and three in strategy And this is how how we work And we work in these areas the first area cyber intelligence This I guess is key To know what's going on that that's why we have contacts with experts in the security that also knows what's going on So we get feet feeds from all kinds of partners and I must say I'm very very satisfied in my job I get so much information from very reliable and very good sources that I cannot complain My practical complaint sometimes can be that the magnitude of the information sometimes make it difficult To assess the problems because there's also bicycle thefts at the internet So to say and we need to focus on a bit higher in the food chain than that But cyber intelligence very very important and then the three core areas intrusion only be done on the internet online payment fraud, which is normally Credit cards, but it will move. I have Apple pay pay now on this I haven't tried it because I don't know if it would work in Ireland No Okay, but but but this will replace you know money will be at a museum together with the Roman coins and And then we will have other means but that will also mean that this one will be the target and You and by having this one I'm not online pushing myself online and going offline to remember in the old days where we went to work And then we started our computer We took a cup of coffee and waited a bit and and and then when we when we went home now We are online always right that we move a bit from the PCs to the tablets And we will have wearable things and we will have the Nike fuels and we will have everything and we will be online always But that also will make a difference in the way that we pay And we need to be in this also in the discussion with the European Central Bank What kind of criteria should we give to private companies because private companies? They look at security in a different way than law enforcement does We are bit naive. We try to solve the problem We try to do the best in the private sector You've tried to find a balance where you have a break even that doesn't ruin you But on the other side doesn't ruin you also in making it too to secure and you You're the most in a loyal ones of all of And you're the reason that the companies are driving in that direction because We don't as consumer wonders. We might want a system that is secure But we want it to be transparent at least And then we want it to be convenient, right? But convenience always trumps security. I can guarantee so you will never have a system That is so cumbersome to click into no, no, no, no, no, no, I rather take the risk So the trick is to find a way in the future for the private companies and businesses if they want to stay in business to find A system that normally is secure and it's convenient and it's transparent and these three you will normally say pick two Right, but here you have to say pick three because you need it those who can do this trick They will be in business the rest would probably fade out Very very slowly then we have child sexual exploitation Everybody hates this. This is a unfortunately an Area that I've been dealing with since 2001 and when I was a young cop you could get this in kiosks You know and and now the magnitude of this material and the development of it I I simply don't get it, but we have 56,000 customers here unique and they are not just showing pictures of babies But they are showing pictures of babies being penetrated by two men and then they put a cigarette on Their skin afterwards or beat them or whatever so so it's it's it's very very bad These areas that we go but this is seems to be an exclusive area that they use because they they feel rather secure on this But that's also an independent crime area But what links it to the other two areas is the expertise that these guys have in using some of the technical facilities And this is also a good uniter in law enforcement I can work with the Chinese and the Russians in this like this They will have Russian police officers in EC3 working on this and we have had it. We have a global task force Working on this everybody unites on this as soon as you go to some of the other areas It tends to be a bit of national security issues, but we try to move this also Then I have three strategic Areas outreach is by far the most important outreach is where we reach out to the private sector I think that the police as we were I grew grew up the customers came to me, right? if you have any complaint who came to me and I Maybe I'll do it today. Maybe tomorrow This is not the way that the police can work these days This is a two-way street and we need all the information all the corporation we can get and luckily again We get it. So my outreach team has a target of of signing 25 MOUs this year and there that we will turn 21 this year because we sign with McAfee today so so we have signed with McAfee with romantic with Apple with with Kaspersky I would also praise Kaspersky lab He has right now staff in the European Cybercrime Center experts training my staff in some of the mobile device Technologies that that that this company is an expert in strategy The development side is the area where we're looking not at the cyber intelligence, which was fast and a short Range radar, but this is more the long if we go up in the helicopter. Where can we see the internet? Moving towards which is very difficult Because I'm not able to predict the internet in five years time We tried to do it with the 20-20 scenario. We invited all the big companies and then we asked them in the same room Where is the money? Where do you see the money because the money drives the internet? So where do you see the new applications? Where do you see the new services? And if this happens? What will the downside be for law enforcement and where do we need to prepare with legislation with training with capacity building awareness and then we have made a number of Scenarios But I would guess that the drivers I told you there will be more internet will be more online There will be more crime that there will be more difficult crime for the police because will Will be a reality in a couple of times. I also think we will change. We have hired a Irish psychologist. I guess we are very fond of Irish My head of operation is also Irish Paul Gillan, which I stole from you a very good man The Irish is actually quite good. I must say it's not just because I'm an island. We have loads of good Irish, but she is driving a Project looking at how do we change as human beings on the internet? How do we react? We react in one way in the physical environment So if we have a what is called a bystander effect if we see somebody getting mocked or raped We react in a certain way. There is patterns, but how do we react on the internet? How do we look at? Mopping or crime at the internet and what and where should the police be? Is it needed for the police to be patrolling empty streets when the kids sign the virtual streets? Or should we also be patrolling on the virtual streets? And if so, what should our uniform be and and how could we define where is open rooms? And where is private rooms just like in the public area outside the police officer No, exactly where he can walk. He's not going into any private rooms unless he has you know Some kind and we have to find the same at the internet because I think lots of us sometimes wants to be Have advice that we see something. Can I do this officer? You are here. Is this normal? No, I will have a look fine We have to create this so so we look at this in strategy and the development and then we have forensic expertise This is the best use of EU money. I've seen this is how to build Projects and tools for law enforcement in all 28 states using community money instead of every country try to invent the wheel Why not put the requirements for the wheel in one pot and ask the EU to pay? Using European companies and give it back to the member state and then we have also a rather substantial Capacity of helping member states. We have very very good tools for the encryption and and password cracking Because I believe that the internet is a shared resource the internet. It doesn't belong to anybody and not to any country It's just like the big seas. It's like the air that we breathe. We have agreements for this Nobody can say this is only my air if you pollute it in one country It has an effect on other ones and the same with the sea We've managed this with maybe not so efficient Kyoto agreements, but I think we need a cyber agreement We need to have norms That gives us indication. What is right and what is wrong? We have for instance for war at Geneva Convention that does not prevent Soldiers from conducting war crimes, but we can come after them afterwards and we can say this we will not accept We can put them in the in the tribunals We need something and because I think it's so inclusive. I need to reach out to everybody So this is how our program board looks like this is predominantly EU agencies because I don't want to risk any turf wars or any kind of Competition there is so much crime in cyberspace. There is enough for everybody So we don't need to compete. We need to work together. So you can see here that So Interpol will be part Nobuo Nakatami who is a very very good Japanese chief of the Interpol Singapore a Digital sensor. He is part of my board and I'm part of his board So he knows exactly what we do we know exactly what he does and we try to align this instead of fighting of the scarce resources And then I have my my advisory groups in which Ryan is here in the internet security very very good group Not just a talk shop, but a very very good group where we also do things again Based on rules and regulations and transparency, but a very very good group We have a financial service group, and I've just signed a MOU with the European Banking Federations and the British Banking Federation in order to improve this work And this I hope will pay off already tomorrow. Let's wait and see But the the banks are have changed they do not compete in security. They compete on everything else, but not in security and I think that they realized that the that the cyber crooks out there might attack my bank now But tomorrow it's your bank or your bank So why not share these information with each other so you can patch up and why not share it with law enforcement? So we can identify the crooks because we need to identify and hunt down the wolves if we only look at protection There will be so many cyber criminals and we cannot protect us out of this We also have to make it unattractive and that's what we do in that way So we have established the European Union cyber crime task force So we have a group where the chiefs of all 28 cyber crime agencies meet six times a year And then we have and this again thanks to the iris. We have the act tech group which is driven heavily by Ireland Which is the police material training materials that we try to broaden because we need to work in three areas the three piece Prevention protection Prosecution and in that order the more we can prevent and it's more needed to prevent in cyberspace that in the physical space The more we can protect it's more needed to protect here than in the physical world. Look at your locks in your home Huh, I can probably go through there your door in five seconds if I want to Because you only have one because you live in a nice neighborhood, right and because the police is keeping crime down So it's unattractive Imagine that you really want to prevent crime then you have to do it in a different way So so this is what we do with the awareness and then we have the industrial cross-sector development And what I talked about the cyber psychology. I think that police needs to know I've learned that 12 year old kids With a cyber problem will never ask their parents that will never inform your parents It will sit in the basement room having troubles somebody asked them. Couldn't you send me a picture of your tits? Back and forth up and down and and they end up by doing it And then this guy will say either you pay either you give me sexual Satisfaction or whatever or you will see this on your Facebook side and Actually kids will commit suicide some of them Luckily some will not all but but the whole process Where why did you do this and the communication here? I think we lack between parents and them and sometimes we also have to realize that we might create other ways for youngsters to interact with like-minded age Instead of their parents because otherwise we missed the target So I I need to know much more about how how we act and interact at the internet and that's why we are tied up with them with the Psychologists and then the initiatives that we have is we have created the European financial cyber crime coalition This is very very important tool for us Then we have the forensic expert tools. This is an even more important tool I need it I need us to create standards in cyberspace the most costly part of cyberspace is us creating evidence that I can use in a court It cannot be inadmissible. I need it to to to to actually last But I also need a German forensic report to actually work in an Irish court Otherwise you have to redo it and it will cost you a fortune We need to create standards. We are doing this in these various areas We train people in the same way we examine them in the same way. They do it in the same way The next step is if we can do this in the EU Why not do this in Africa because in the future? We will need help from the Africans and they will need help to protect themselves This is a social responsibility that I think that we as EU could take upon us and and and by that We will do something good that might even also give us more customers to our Industry and businesses then we have a working group an e-commerce fraud I'm sure you don't know how big the problem is but there is a huge number of gangs buying Apple Commodities bicycles rather expensive goods from very very small e-shops based in the various countries So a Danish shop will get somebody who wants to buy a a Mac book pro He will pay with a stolen credit card and the shop will want it to be sent to a danish address Otherwise it will be suspicious. So they have mules in Denmark So they send it to the mule the mule receive it the mule have already got from from from the gang A lot of boxes with names on and everything paid. He just goes to the post office They will mail it to a another european country That used to be part of the soviet union in the old days and from there it will go to a big Storehouse and driven into russia And the problem is you don't lose money because if your credit card because you didn't do the transaction the bank Don't lose money because the bank said we don't want to transfer this money to your shop because you were an idiot and sold These things so the only one who loses is the small shop with six employers and they go down the drain That's why we have to do something about this and have to start a targeted approach towards this and we will do this and we are already Looking at a number of good operations And the last i'm very very proud of is the joint cyber crime action task force the first time in the european history We have a real task force not just a task force by name everybody has a task force But a real task force 15 police officers experts working day out day in 24 seven in one room Targeting crime and doing something about it. It's led by the uk It's interesting. Uh, it's you. UK is not always Very eu friendly. Uh, maybe I can say this without offending anybody But at least they see in cyber crime We have to be united so uk leads this they actually also leads the eu ctr the european cyber crime task force And then it's france germany spain italy austria the netherlands FBI secret service ice afp canada rcmp colombia and two or three other countries in this they have experts and they are producing cases every day And this is how they work They look at their identification priorities Because every country needs to have something so if it's a small country They also need to be part of the full show so it cannot just be driven by the big countries all of us should have a pile Of a portion of the pile and then we go into to investigations Here are the objectives that we need to be proactive intelligence that and coordinated And that we need to go towards the biggest criminals So these are the areas of competence high tech crimes as it's called here It's the program as I talked about crime facilitation. It's a network that facilitate this. This might be bulletproof hosting services Online fraud. This is what's going on when we move to this And then child sexual exploitation online is in but not On right now because the most of the member states have a separate unit for this So we probably created task force two That will take care of this and we are discussing this with the FBI who has a global task force And we might share with the FBI this responsibility. So we Hosted but it's a global task force but hosted by ec3 But in that way we might be able to actually move a bit faster in this area law enforcement's ability to identify attribute and prosecute in the post-noton era This is one of my favorite subjects and the brine is not always agreeing with me but but How do we get this right? As I said to you before in the physical world you accept that I as a police officer have the right We have all kinds of privacy rights in in in in the normal life, right? But still I can take away your freedom. I can arrest you. I can frisk you If I have a suspicion I can probably use This on you if you if you do anything I can go home to you and I can search your house If I have a suspicion I can probably bug your phone And then mark I can bug your room. I can put a surveillance team I can have cameras all over to follow your movements and eventually I don't know how it is here But I can kill you and then mark I have a gun and I can kill you Because we have rules for this of engagement and transparency We accept this as citizens that we have given these powers to the police because they will only enforce this According to a very strict rule and because of the rest of us So for the first time we have a society where it's not Force who is power, but it's right that it's power But as soon as I talk about this in the online world I get hammered with tweets left and right And I think that the discussion is that is privacy the same as anonymity Would we accept a society Where you have no registration plates on your cars and you could have a mask and if I drove 100 kilometers Where was 50 nobody cared because the police could not identify it Of course not if you could conduct any crime if you had areas But I could not penetrate if I knew that there were illegal immigrants here or two tons of cocaine If I knocked the door there was a lock. I couldn't open physically. They could just be Standing at the other side. Would we accept this in any physical world? I doubt it and what kind of world would it be If you had full anonymity I think that you need anonymity, but it's a right that you only have If you don't break the rules that is set by the society in a democracy That can be leveled, of course So you have to look at security here And freedom here And privacy and then you have to find the right balance But there will be trade-offs ladies and gentlemen And I have still to see the argument that convinces me that because I do a crime on the internet I should have the right to continue to be Without any identification possibilities and again I am not Even though I'm always being accused for the law enforcement We have seen this with the NSA told you want to snoop You want to look into everything and and monitor. No, this is not my job I'm trying to fight crime. The only ability I want is if I have a suspicion That can be proven to such a level that an independent judge will grant me the authority Then I need the authority to see what you are doing This is what a normal society needs in order to enforce democracy If you don't want that, fine with me. I rest my case. I will survive But the but the big question is what kind of society will we have? I don't say it's easy to fix and I actually think that encryption in the online world Is here to stay and I think it's easier to encrypt than to decrypt So we are probably always to a certain extent losing that part But then we have to find alternatives We are only here To protect the citizens According to open and transparent rules. You set the rules and we will enforce this. Thank you very much for this