 Yeah, welcome everyone. I'm at Canon. I'm the staff member, a staff member at Sierra Club, Maine, and we're so happy to have all come to our community conversation today with the ACLU of Maine. Marianne will introduce the speaker and say a few more words, but just a quick overview for those who need a refresher. We will have folks on mute just while speakers talking. You can feel free to be on video or not. It is great to see you all if you are available to do that. And we will have the chat open for questions. For me, it seems like Allison will be taking a good amount of those. And that is all I have for logistics so I'm happy that you all have come and I'll hand it over to Marianne. Okay, well, I, too, want to welcome you to the Zoom conversation. The Sierra Club, Maine is very pleased to have with us Allison who is executive director of the ACLU. As you know, in these difficult times it's very important for us to stay connected with one another, and especially give one another support as we carry on important work of groups like the Sierra Club Maine and the ACLU. Now Allison has a very impressive background. Besides, she's been with the ACLU here in Maine the last six years. And before that, she was at the Maine Law School where she was director of admissions and an adjunct professor of juvenile justice or juvenile law. At the Muskie School of Public Service, she advocated for juvenile justice policy reform, and she represented youth in the courts. She has gotten various awards in 2003. Well, first in 2003 she co-founded Kids Legal, which provides legal representation or legal services to children throughout the state. Excuse me. She received the Maine Judicial Branch's Advocate for Justice Award in 2004. And as I was mentioning, before we formally started this, I was very inspired by her representation, her testimony where she talked about the need for better representation of those who cannot afford counsel. Today she's going to be sharing with us her reflections on the recent elections and what that means for Maine. Take it away Allison. Thank you, Mary Ann, and thank you for that kind introduction. And thank you all for being here. Mary Ann, I want you to know that you are following in the endless line of people that mispronounced my name. So I'm just going to, which is, it seems like so far, just so you know, even within the family, we pronounce it differently. So you're not, you're in good company. But it is, yes, my father and I pronounce it differently. It is true. It is BA. So my name is Allison BA. I'm the director. Mr. Broadgown, super nice to see your face down there in the bottom of my screen, John, you, John and I go back way, way, way, many decades now in Maine. So nice to see you. I'm delighted to be here today. And I would really before I start my remarks, I am a huge fan of the chat function on these calls. And I would love to know what you're thinking about what you'd like me to be talking about. Mary Ann and I have already talked about how many things I could go into, but please feel free to pop them in the chat as you're going or questions or what you're thinking about, because that will help me know where we should go. There's so many things we could talk about. So don't hesitate. I'll keep the chat button open. And we can go from there. Well, as Mary Ann said, I've been, well, you know, in addition to 2020 being a big year for the elections, a big year for me, I turned 50. So it's a year of reflection. And I'm thinking back on about 30 years now that I've been advocating for different issues related to civil rights. And I think it's, you know, for me, it was a very easy path to pick. I've worked with role models in my family, who all worked in nonprofit but most importantly my mother worked at the ACLU when I was a kid, but a little known fact is that my father worked at the National Audubon Society. So when I was growing up I was surrounded by two sort of incredible role models, one who was working on social justice and one was who was working on environmental issues. When I grew up, I think like many people in my generation, or until recently, thinking that that was really a choice. You could choose to work on social justice, or you could work on the environment, and that they really weren't connected. So you picked people or you picked the planet, and that that was just the path that you were going to you were going to walk. And I think increasingly over the last, at least certainly the last decade and maybe a little bit longer, we're recognizing that those issues are fundamentally interconnected, that we can't have justice for people if we don't have protection of the planet and how and now CR club has been doing some incredible thinking on that, and particularly impressed with Mr. Hopkins and the organization who writes, who wrote so powerfully this summer about how you know, environmental degradation is so interconnected with racism and the oppression of communities who have been traditionally marginalized and so I really see this as an exciting moment. So I'm particularly like as a personal issue happy to be at the Sierra Club I've never spoken to an environmental group before. I hope you're the first of many. And I've been really grateful for Sierra Club it was it was really great to be partnering on the voting work and the Secretary of State debate so that's been terrific. And just a little thought that I think that we have reached a point I don't know, John, it's hard to imagine that my daughter now is 20 right our kids we started having kids around the same time. But my daughter has decided to go the path of my father into science and so she's studying planetary health and what she's studying that the oceans and what is interesting when I talk to her is that she sees it as completely interconnected so her passion is about how indigenous communities are being affected disproportionately and edit you know in a different way because of rising sea levels and because of pollution and the waters and I see this this this new generation taking this in a whole new in a whole new way so I'm excited about the way our movements need to work together and we'll only achieve justice if we do work together so super happy to be here. Mary on mentioned about the the election. Well, it is a little bit hard to believe that it was only you know what four weeks ago five weeks ago that we we the election is over and it feels almost like a lifetime ago and there was certainly most of our organizations were working for for months of not years to to get up for it. And I don't want to minimize the the importance of electing and it looks like now we really will have a transfer of power so, although I haven't 100% let my guard down and I am starting to relax. I'm sleeping slightly better. I won't entirely rest until January 20, but but I think you know I don't want to minimize the importance of putting back in the White House someone who is not you know overtly racist overtly homophobic overtly attempting to you know destroy the planet and all of the many ways that the current president has really dismantled so many parts of our democracy. So it will make an enormous change to have a an administration that is that is at least attempting to do to do a better job around issues that the ACL it cares about. Don't worry though ACL you have suit every president since 1920 so we're not stopping now we'll certainly go after President Biden when the time is right, but for now let's I think we are we are pleased that we will be welcoming administration that has a much better vision for our vision of what the Constitution means. So yes it's good news. That does not mean though that we are not facing enormous challenges, both because of the repair that needs to be done but also just because of where we are as a country. I think we have to hold two things at the same time after watching the selection. I mean the first is is that an astronomical number of people voted to keep President Trump in office on an overtly racist policy platform. In a way that we probably have never seen in our history, at least if I'm going to go with that historical statement never seen before. An enormous number of people in this country that think that sort of racist platform is appropriate that we should be attacking communities of color that we should be attacking immigrants and many other groups as well. And yet at the same time, we have seen both in the election and in the four years leading up to it. You know, in some way I don't know if you want to call an awakening or a resurgence or an understanding of how injustice has been woven into the fabric of our country from before, you know, before our Constitution was even written from the very beginning from the taking of land from indigenous communities. And so now people of color have been telling white people this for a very long time for centuries in fact. It's not that this information wasn't known, but it is appreciated now in a way that I don't think we have ever done. And I, and I, I think in addition to that just watching the energy of. I'm not mold enough now to call them the youth, but the youth, you know, the young people, they're incredible. I mean I think it is fair to say that I mean at least I'm hopeful to seem to think that the people of younger populations are are have a different awareness, certainly ones that many of us didn't have growing up so so we have to hold these two, these two truths together right we have enormous amount of people in this country who are willing to hold civil rights and we have an awakening. So what does that mean for me. I think it means we have a lot of work to do. It means that at the ACLU and other civil rights organizations, we have to work with the energy that's been generated over the last four years to protect immigrants to protect low income folks to protect people of color. And yet understand that the government is slow to respond is slow to recognize how racism permeates everything we do so we could talk about any system, we could talk about as Mary and mentioned the public defender the lack of a public defender system here in Maine, we could talk about the education system we could talk about the health care system we could talk about any systems and we would be able to find enormous disparities around race and and outcomes in Maine, but I think I will go to the I'm going to go because Mary was the one who asked the first I'm going to go straight to the criminal legal system because I think it is one that many of us don't think about we don't you know if you haven't had someone in your life that has been impacted by the criminal legal system. You don't often understand how it permeates and for the reason you may not understand that is that criminal legal system has been a system that has traditionally oppressed communities of color so black and brown and particularly black and brown men although increasingly women have been a target of the system throughout the throughout centuries and throughout the state. Yes, I would say that's one of the things that is a surprise to people in Maine is that, and I don't know if you hear this but certainly I hear this a lot is, you know, Allison, racism just isn't a problem in Maine, you know we don't have any people of color here with a white estate so we really, I don't know why you're talking about it so much, it's just not a problem. The last 12 months have made that almost impossible for people to say but I would say up until the last 12 months I still would hear that when I would when I would give talks or be talking about issues. So we are definitely still in a place in Maine where people do not want or do not are not aware of this disparity so on the criminal legal system at every single stage from arrest to charging to sentencing to length of everything, there are disparities based on race. So we have a population of a little less than 2% of people of color but you'll see that in arrests we have their 8% of arrests. They're 8% of arrests for drugs, even though we know in Maine that black and white people use drugs at the same rate. I always try to write it down because sometimes I get a little bit dramatic with my with my percentages and then people at the office have to rain me back in but 11% of the people incarcerated. For those of you who I don't know if you ever got to meet the former dean of the law school Danielle Conway, but in her first week in Maine she went to John I don't know if you know the story. She went out to the prison in Warren, and it was it was a really important moment that she, she wanted to take as, you know, to suggest how important it was to her by beating their first week. And she walked into, and she was with the warden, and she had had a tour and she said, So this is where you keep all your black people in Maine. It is a really painful and yet true statement that we are, we like we don't think that that's happening in Maine but it is absolutely happening in Maine. When I represented children at Long Creek, when I worked in the in the in the juvenile system. It is, you know, it is not well I live in Southern Maine but it is not kids from Cape Elizabeth. So the kids do not end up at Long Creek kids from Lewis and Auburn end up in Long Creek. There is an enormous racial disparity. So we have a system that at every stage rips people out of their communities and does it in a disproportionate way. I can't and you know I'm interested in all of your thoughts on this. But we still find this an uphill battle in the state legislature or in communities. And so you've been hearing a lot about the defunding the police movement you've heard it from the ACLU you hear from Black Lives Matter you hear it from advocacy organizations all over all over the country. It is still a struggle for many people to understand how policing is an extension and has been extension of oppression of people of color. So we have a lot of work to do here in Maine around civil rights. The election will be helpful but it is not enough. We have democratic control in Maine and yet we have struggled to get reform passed on criminal issues. I mentioned the public defender system or the lack thereof another example of here in Maine that low income folks who typically or are disproportionately people of color in Maine. You're 29% of let me get that right to not over speak that 29% of people of color in Maine are living in poverty. That's a pretty breathtaking number. And so those, if you then add that getting caught in the criminal legal system. You can see how these disparities just, you know, roll out. And then in terms of we, you know, the disparities happen in everything and I'm sure you're thinking about that we. You just watch my brain go into like 17 other things I want to talk to you about trying to to stay at least with the criminal legal system for a minute. So we see that that is an area that is incredibly important for our advocacy because it is so base in a racial or a lack of racial justice lens and so you see the ACLU talking a lot about that. And again, although a Biden administration will be helpful. It's really about advocacy at the state level, and we still have a lot of work to do. I just want to pause there for a second and see if anyone had any questions about that particular issue for move on. Well, so Marion asked about ice integration and customs enforcement. We are many people again this this actually goes to a bit of the, the point I was making before in Maine, I think there's a perception that issues of immigration issues of race and racial injustice aren't prevalent. But we actually, we are increasingly finding that ice and customs and CBP is spending lots of time in Maine and we have a we actually have a number of lawsuits against ice right now. Including issues related to the border, we're seeing more and more of people up on the Canadian border and being sent from the southern border to try to instill would be I guess the right word instill other agents with the same sort of racist derogatory unconstitutional searches and attacks on on immigrants to sort of perpetuate Trump's efforts to attack immigrants and people of color generally. So we have worked really hard to try to curtail ice and CBP's behavior. Our method of doing that has been to sue them, hoping to make it tired, you know, get them tired of messing up in Maine. We had a bunch of advocacy where there was do you I don't know if you all remember when there was boarding of buses the Greyhound buses. So that was an important part of multi state advocacy actually with ACLU of New Hampshire ACLU of Maine, and other affiliates around the country of working with businesses to try to stand up to that kind of, I mean really shocking tactics of, you know, sort of pulling people off of buses, you know, show me your papers kind of state I mean if there's, there's anything we want to be pushing back as a is a country or state where, you know, we think it's acceptable to violate the law call people and all based on, you know, what the color of their skin or the language they're speaking so we have had pretty decent success pushing back against ice but I think increasingly, it will be a problem. That is an area where the Biden administration should be should be helpful in terms of rolling back some of the protections although for those, you know, I'm sure many of you are aware that under Obama, it's not like we had exactly fantastic immigration policies, though he was one of the larger. He deported some of the largest groups of people, immigrants in the history of our country so Democrats don't necessarily join us in all the issues, I mean, be great if they did but there's still plenty of work for us to do around Democrats and the legislature just Claudia to your point about the bill in the legislature. Right now there it is going, it is there's conversations about increasing in appropriation to the MCIS, which would increase the amount of money that's being paid to public to vendors but to court appointed attorneys. And so that is what we're working on right now is what kind of restructuring they will do the office and what kind of whether or not they will change the organization there's not unless something has been put in recently that I'm not aware of there's not a specific bill but there is a ton of advocacy going on and I can get back to you on the specifics but right now a lot of it's been around what the governor will offer in terms of funding. And that has begun some big signals on that. I think I would like to point out though and I don't know if you as environmental groups struggle with this issue. And sort of thinking about cleanup. I don't know if there's an analogy here but one of the things that we think it's really important to remind people of is, yes we want people to have good attorneys that they're charged with a crime. But we really want to be asking why are they being charged with the crime in the first place. Right, so we just like you don't spend a lot of time on a cleanup and environmental site we want to make sure how are people allowed to pollute in the first place. Right, so we want to be having the conversation, we did not we did not use to rest as many people. This is completely new in the last 30 to 40 years. This is a complete change in how this country handled incarceration. And so, Maine has some of the toughest drug laws in the country. So we incarcerate a enormous number of people from what is relatively low level amounts of drugs for personal use that's far beyond what most states do. We think that we need to shrink the system so we don't want to just work on propping up a system. We want to actually take the money that's being spent in a criminal legal system and send it on education or housing or all the things that make it less likely that people are going to end up in the criminal legal system. So, yes, James so we on our website do like keep a list of all the cases that we have going. And we, but it is, it is sometimes people it's are not aware that, although we are thought of as a law firm and we really are one of the largest or maybe the largest civil rights organization legal organization law firm in the country. We do so much advocacy in the legislature and john can speak of that since we've done so much of it with him, and some many of the groups he's involved with. So we do, we do a lot in the legislature and even on the municipal level. So you'll also see some of the advocacy that we do in other areas, but you can see the lawsuits there as well. So, john, we must be actively anti racist interactions. So that's a, I mean, isn't that the question. That is what we all need to ask and that's what we all need to figure out I think there's a, there's going to be a bill in the legislature right now which I think is a really interesting proposal around racial impact statements and it's actually borrowed from the environmental movement about thinking about just like the environmentalists advocated for in the past saying like before you, before you do something let's think about what the impact is on the environment. What's the same idea now before we pass a bill that seems neutral on its face. Let's look at what it will really do to communities of color. So, I think that that has john I think that's a really exciting opportunity to even just shift the paradigm right to ask the questions of how the lens of how things can be facial, we use it in the law we say facially neutral so like on theory it doesn't impact, but it you know in in practicality it does so you know here this thinking about something like education and cove it right. The governor had to respond pretty quickly because the idea was okay we're going to go remote right we're going to let everybody go remote. And that will solve that problem without we needed to think well that was like that should apply to everyone equally but no it didn't children with disabilities children who didn't have internet children whose parents had to work. And so we need to be thinking about when we have policy recommendations that they do not. You know that they do not end up impacting certain groups more than others. So I think that's, you know, again, part of what we're doing and then also is to. And it seems like Sierra club is it really doing this with incredible passion and I'm very impressed as we also have to really investigate our own organizations. We can't just be looking external to where there are challenges we need to look at our own organizations and how we also make decisions in ways that might seem facially neutral but in fact are are actually not having they're having a disproportionate impact on how we govern or on our staff, or the issues that we pick. So I think that it's both an inside and outside job, how we do that. And I think the other way is, I remember that I've had so many learning moments as the ED of the ACLU. I remember in my first, I think it's my first year. I was excited about a collaboration we're going to do and I was, you know, I had to set a, we really affirmatively prioritized racial justice as an organization. And I was speaking to a staff person about how we need to bring a whole group together of is back in 2014 2015, before people were really talking about racial justice and me in the way there now, and saying you know we need to, we need to, we need to get people from the immigrant community and we need to have a meeting and we need to, you know, essentially bring them in so we can, we can figure out what we should do next. And the staff person said, um, why do they have to come to our table. Right, like, no, we go to that will go to them will go to those communities will ask what is needed. We will try to understand what the communities are looking for and then we'll figure out what's the best way to serve, because for a long time as nonprofits have assumed that we know the answers and those nonprofits have typically been run and led by white people, the boards have the staff have and so it's a really important paradigm shift to make sure that we are the communities who are most directly impacted and have a, not only a seat at the table but that maybe we're going to their table not as opposed to or even better that the tables all set together in our organization so I think that's another important part of how we do anti racist work is making sure who's make who's making the decisions. Who's who has access to power is equitable and and were informed by not just intellectually what we think is happening. So it's kind of off of the specifics of criminal legal reform but I think a really important part of that. All right, that covers I think that question was john you want to jump in anything on that effect. It's that brought up anything for you. I'm sure a lot but not by a chat button. That was, that was great. Very, very thoughtful consistent with what I was, I was hoping and expecting you would say so. It's a, it's a path isn't it john. We're on a path we're on a path of evolution of growth and we're trying to do it in the most thoughtful way and we're making mistakes and we're having success and we can't be afraid of the running and we can't be afraid of the mistakes, because that is, that is going to be part of this as we do that. So we talked a little bit about criminal legal reform we've talked about immigration. Another issue that we continue to prioritize our basic issues of access to abortion care and women's rights, or, you know, how that plays out in the state it's another place where you see disparities of access to health care. And so we continue to remain focused main is in particularly good shape on on those issues right because the governor who's very supportive of access to abortion and very, very proud of our work in collaboration with the governor's office had some really important wins last session. This is a place where I think main is a leader, and will continue to be a leader and can serve as dare I say hope for the for some of the other parts of the of the country, where access to abortion care is is in some states you know, virtually non existent. And so what does that mean. And so we'll continue to, to work with our allies in different coalitions to make sure but again we have a lot of support and in in the state on that issue. The other area that we will continue and probably more than ever work on is is is voting and it's a place where the Sierra Club and ACLU have already partnered and hopefully will continue to partner. There is, as many of you may know main has some of the best voting rights in the country. We should be incredibly proud of where we are. How do I explain it, because I don't want to. We have we have we're in a great place but it doesn't mean that we don't face challenges so very often I'm explaining. Well yes we have the best laws but every year we will face some sort of voter ID law and every year those those attempts to whittle away at voting rights gets stronger and stronger. And so I think what we're expecting to see post election is a very increased attack on voting rights, based on what's happening at the federal level, much of the damage that's being done around the allegations of fraud is to lay the groundwork for a reform and assault on voting rights all across the country, moving forward so in red states purple states and blue states at the ACLU were expecting to see efforts like we've never seen to use this election as an excuse to require state elections to to sort of roll back access to voting. It's a very effective tactic to keep people out and we can see what happens when that doesn't work you can see what happened in Georgia, when you know there's a concerted effort to increase the voting roles to increase access to the polls. Now at the ACLU we're not concerned about necessarily the outcome of an election we're concerned about is groups who have been traditionally not able to vote, do not lose their right to vote. So, I think we are looking at a both sort of a nationwide attempt to to roll back voting rights and then also thinking about how main can be a leader in that as many as you all know, we just, the state legislature just elected their secretary of state, who's also the former executive director of the ACLU, which poses opportunities although my biggest, my biggest hope is at some point that the new secretary incoming secretary of state will ask us to sue her so that we can have a, a caption that says ACLU main versus Jenna bellows which I think would mean what former ED of the ACLU wouldn't want that on their wall I mean that just seems like a dream. So I think we have opportunities here in Maine to just go even further with voting but I, but I don't believe that we will be immune from attacks and I think there will be a very conservative concentrated and coordinated effort around the country to to roll back on the ACLU like the Sierra Club has the advantage of having offices in every state and having advocates in every state and so I feel pretty optimistic that the ACLU is ready in a way we've never been ready. I don't know what you are finding but the, there's not too many silver linings of zoom but one of the silver linings is as an organization we have. We have done more collaboration across states than we've ever done because this idea that you have to get together in person clearly we don't need to do that we can make things happen over zoom. And so we actually had an entire for the last seven or eight months had a voting coalition of about six, excuse me 16 states that work together in battleground states Maine was one of them. So having working with national working with affiliates with pretty I mean we really predicted every possible thing that could go wrong in the way only true ACLU people can worry about, you know, our parade of horribles is pretty impressive but it worked and it allowed collaboration and we shared staff between affiliates we shared staff with national, and it showed us the power of what we can do that we don't need to be tied to location that we can be much more collaborative and work remotely so that will will give us a lot of, when these attacks come in the next legislative sessions, whether it's in Kentucky, Mississippi, Maine, you know so I think that there's a lot of opportunity, and yes Kathy, we are very much going to be pushing online voter registration, I think that's a key, a key issue to work on and I think there's a lot of, it was interesting in the debate that secretary of state debate everyone seemed pretty comfortable with that as a reform so I think we will definitely push to, to hold them to hold secretary's incoming secretary and bellows to that, to that issue and referendum initiatives as well Marianne I mean that's another issue is what does that look like when we have the people's people's energies just sort of ignored and what does that look like and making it harder and harder to get things on the ballot. So it's something we're very concerned about, but we have Mr. I don't have to worry about all that so I'm counting on you john to, to do that. So that's a great question Carol about the rural counties in Maine, I, we have a silly members in every part of the state. You know Fort Kent, Kittery, you know, and you know, an obstacle the whole the whole gamut obviously we are much more. We have a much higher percentage in southern Maine and sort of Portland area and then along the coast which is I think fairly typical of more progressive organizations, but we do have presence everywhere. I think we, I think there's opportunity for for us as organizations, whether it's Sierra Club or, or ACLU, we actually did a, we did a little pilot project, a few months ago, and lead up to the election where we did some advertising some, I'm the oldest one in the office so of course they're trying to explain to me what digital advertising is and I'm like wait what and understand this is what Facebook wait a minute. It's a commercial I don't understand. I'll have being said, we ended up working to have non partisan advertising that encouraged people to register and to vote and to vote absentee. So it was just about getting out the vote. And what was interesting about, we targeted a population of about 35,000 people. And what we saw was that, first of all, we actually had a lot. I guess they call it like the click through rate, you know, like people actually engage with us at a much higher level than we would have expected in our in a rural area when sometimes you know, given the ACLU. I don't know what our brand would be like in the rural second CD. And so there's a lot of interest in people we won't know for sure until we see who voted how well we actually did. But what was fascinating was to see in the younger cohort, how many of those people did not identify with Democrats, you know they did not have identified with a party they're independent they're not aligned. There was a lot of interest and there's a lot of clicks or whatever, whatever they call it. There's a lot of interest in our information, and they did not and they seemed interested in ACLU as a brand or as a as an organization that would be trusted. So I think that there's a lot of opportunity for us to be thinking about rural communities and my experience from representing, you know, just not even from ACLU but from my whole career and main rural communities. I mean, when we, when we increase access for communities of color or we increase access for disabled people. These are, you know, which are core civil rights issues for the ACLU. We increase the quality of life for everyone. And that includes rural manors that includes people who are feeling cut off from the system or people who don't have access to good health care or have to drive. These are their ways the system discriminates against people who are not in the power and not in the hubs. And so I think that there's a lot of opportunity to change the narrative about what rural manors think about and what they care about. And I, I say that because we also have seen in some of the district attorney work that we did. So district attorneys are, you know, on behalf of the state they will charge people with crimes but we've seen a lot of interest in the rural communities about what is their district attorney doing, and how are they serving their rural communities and how are they in fact keeping certain family members, you know, certain segments of the rural population sort of held down. So the same thing that happens to communities of color also happens to poor rural communities so I think there's a lot of a lot of opportunity for us to find alliances and allegiances and collaboration there. I agree with the premise of your question, John, they are very legitimate grievances of our tribes. We worked quite hard last year on the, the recommendations of the, I'm going to get all the names wrong now but the to sort of redo the main claims settlement act. And I know that I think I think I know this that the environmental groups were split on this issue. Is that that there was some that there were that some environmental groups were coming out relative pretty strong even though there was concern that tribal communities would have less restrictions on what they could do on tribal lands from an environmental perspective. I would say in terms of how we can support is obviously showing up in the legislature is an incredibly important way of doing that I think that it's learning how to be a good ally, it's to understand what the community is looking for. It is certainly, it is to be in communication and conversation and ask for what is needed. I think we feel that tribal sovereignty is is a core issue for Indigenous people here in Maine. And that it is something the ACLU should support. We've worked on a number of issues with the tribes over the years we were we worked with them on the mascot issue as you may remember me and became the first state to sort of completely ban mascots. And so that was been part of our work we're working we've worked with the tribes over different issues related to targeting by law enforcement of tribal members based on their license plates and so we've been doing some tribal work although I would suggest we should be doing more. It is still probably one of the one of the harder places for and maybe for also for main lawyers, lawyers get really hung up on issues related to authority and sovereignty and it's a tricky concept for a lot of lawyers to understand and so I still, I have a lot of conversations with ACLU members around, you know, why should the land claims element act stand it's a contract. And so our position is is that it does need to be negotiated and it wasn't appropriately done and and that sovereignty needs to be restored. So I think it's getting involved, understanding what the tribes need the tribes have for the Wabanaki which I think will go far to helping have more coordinated voice of the legislature. So we are looking to do whatever we can to support them. Obviously, tribal state relations are pretty poor. It's not an area of great collaboration. And that has been true for the last few administrations. So I think it's a, but I think there's been real progress in terms of, you know, predict, you know, non tribal organizations like ACLU and others to sort of really speak up loudly about that this is an issue and I would also say, we, you know, the environmental issues we were involved in with the tribes on the Penobscot water case in terms of the quality of the water and advocating for them to have their tribal that their fishing rights were being, you know that the pollution was a problem for their fishing rights so I think there's a lot of collaboration that we could we could do there. So what else do people want to talk about? Oh, police in schools. CMP transmission quarter. That is one you're all going to have to talk to me about you're going to have to educate me about the CMP quarter and whether where there's if there's opportunity or whether we should be involved in that because that is one that I have been asking my youngest child to try to explain it to me. So, so I may have to pass on the CMP, but I will talk about police in schools. So, this goes back to the issue I was referring to about, we have decided that law enforcement is the solution to every problem. So we've decided it's a solution to mental health problems is the solution to substance use disorder. It's the solution to underfunded schools. And I'm just going to tell you, it's not the solution to any of those things. Period law enforcement is not the solution. The solution is investment in our communities the solution is investment in our people the solution is connection with community. That's the solution, not law enforcement. So one of the troubling trends over the last 20 years just like in every other incarceration issue and criminal legal issue is starting to put kids in schools and I know you're going to be shocked when I say this but guess which are the kids that get arrested in school. Yeah, they're the kids of color. They're the white kids or if they're white kids are the poor white kids. So it is a it is disproportionately and that's not all about the police I'm not I'm not suggesting that the police are themselves like always targeting people of color. Let's not forget that every one of us was born and raised in a community in a society that is, you know the underpinnings are racist. The movies we watch the television we watch the language we use. You cannot grow up in America without being racialized you cannot grow up with having with standards true for people of color to. So it is, I'm not suggesting that every law enforcement goes into the school I mean many SROs I think are pretty lovely people. You know that they want to be part of their community they want to go in. The problem is is that law enforcement is still law enforcement they have guns they have access to the court system they have act they. If someone gets caught in the criminal justice system they do not get out easily. Most kids who go into the system, you know, if they're diverted out right away they're usually fine but the kids who get caught in the system. They're caught in there for so many different reasons and law enforcement isn't going to solve them. And a lot of those kids I think right now at Long Creek, something like 85% have significant and serious mental health diagnosis. We should be outraged at that. We should be outraged that our community is saying the solution for significant mental health is a prison. So now obviously it's not SROs and police in schools did not cause that problem but it's another manifestation of where we're choosing to spend our money. We could easily put more social workers in school. We could just as easily fund schools at a different level put health clinics in schools, make sure kids have enough to eat. So when we put law enforcement in schools we we make kids the enemy, and we use the criminal justice system to solve problems that are that are not about that it don't have a law enforcement solution. But Ned, okay Ned, is this the Ned Glaxton. Oh boy okay I'm very nice to see you, or hear from you. So I agree. I mean I certainly I need some language that is not as triggering for some as deep on the police. I certainly understand that right side of the place doesn't have the same impact. Yes. I think it is. Well let's just say first of all, isn't it amazing that we're even having that conversation. Right that we're even talking about what does it mean what is the proper role of police. So even though I think many people have said, police is triggering right it's really people don't understand it it's it's both very threatening to law enforcement is threatening to people who think communities only do you know law enforcement needs to be safer. But it started a conversation right it got people's attention. It certainly did that. And we all know as advocates sometimes you need to get people's attention. You know you need to get them to have the conversation. What we're talking about is, although I don't know right sizes and so bad. I mean, you know, some of it is we are that is exactly what we're talking about. We have over relied on parts of our system. You know it's like working lights like doing it's like only lifting part of you know one part of your body and growing at something that is too big and not supporting the other sizes. I mean you can see this in if you look at in your local community if you look at what police are responding to. Public safety issues. Right. This is just this is not a place that we want to me so we could, it doesn't mean police need to use their lose their jobs but that money could be spent in police could do a different role. It doesn't mean we don't need support in the community. It's just not a slave law enforcement so yeah reimagine public safety although john I don't know. Part of the thing I think we've struggled with is that this this really idea that by letting it be safety. We sort of already assumed that there is already such a dangerous community. And I think we have to probe a little bit and get a little curious about how much of safety has been coded words for who's safe and who's not safe. And what we've been taught about about white and black and and and who's a risk test, but but I agree with you we do need to reimagine. We need to reimagine and that's going to require a shifting of resources and it does mean whenever we change right changes difficult. Yeah and I agree with you I agree with you. I can't call you Ned I have to call you so. Exactly that we are trying to find a way and and so the when I talk about it I try to talk about communities need to know how to take care of me need to know and do know how to take care of themselves. And we need to find ways to connect not divide. And those things are best done, in my opinion, not by people with guns, but by communities with health care and housing, and, and access to, you know, whether it's a primary care provider or social worker, or, you know, have families in trouble that they have food, and that isn't true for so many manors. And it's generationally not true. So I think I try to talk about it as reinvesting in our community in a different way. I don't know if that's helpful. Thank you. Thanks. And I see we have 10 minutes left, and I'm thinking it might be a good time to start winding down a little bit like if you have any closing remarks and I think Matt is going to say a few closing remarks about how people can get more involved with the Sierra Club and you might want to talk about how people can get involved with the ACLU. I think that's very much for having me as you can tell, I could keep going for a long time about so many of these issues. And I love so much about these kinds of conversations is that we don't always have the exact answer, but we will figure out the answer together. And so we need to have these conversations and continue to work together and learn from each other and not be afraid of the messiness that sometimes comes along with that. So as part of being part of the ACLU, well, you can always become an ACLU member just like you can become a Sierra Club member. And we're always looking for just like Sierra Club I imagine activists and who want to work in legislature and volunteers. But I want to do that a lot of time to talk about the Sierra Club because that's what this is about is how do you, how do you support the Sierra Club. And I also do want to thank you for a wonderful, wonderful conversation of so many things to think about. We're really blessed to have the ACLU main active as we are to have so many activists in the state. And that you want to talk about the Sierra Club. I'll just be very short because I'd love to hear more from Allison and I know we are wrapping up. I will close the recording soon but I don't know if you or others have some time and want to talk on this platform I'm happy to keep it open as well. Yeah, just real quick I mean we have a lot of teams we are grassroots organization so we rely on volunteers, and we could always use more help especially all across the state we do represent every county as well and we have a lot of members and supporters all across the state. And I'll just put my email in the chat. I'm happy to connect with people. If they're interested in getting involved, our energy team to our climate action team, our legislative team is really kind of getting going right now to start advocating. Our state reps and senators so thank you Senator Poxton for being on the call and I'll just leave it at that I'd love to connect with you if you're interested and to learn more we do have some volunteer webinars coming up but love to leave any extra space for Allison or others, as this was a really incredible talk thank you all for coming. Really really interesting. You want me to add Mary and I mean you don't want to give me the microphone again. You don't have that long you said you had to leave it one so I wanted to make sure you had enough time so I appreciate it I will I you know the world and back to back zoos that I'm sure many of you live. Yeah. I would just like to thank Allison. There's been nobody's been a better champion of some of the most vital issues that are both vital and neglected, unfortunately by many of us who are activists of various kinds. You're a champion then then then you and the ACLU of Maine, and you know you've made such great strides in so many areas you've really lifted up a lot of important issues and had a lot of great successes in terms of public education and advocacy and in the courts. And I don't know where we'd be without you so. Amen. Appreciate it what you're doing. It's, it is an honor to do the work and we do it with lots of groups and lots of people, many of whom you don't see but they're out there working. So thank you. Okay, I guess. And any last words from anyone. Okay, thank you so much Allison. Thank you so much. We'll be in touch. Yes, look forward to working with you all in some time, really soon. Thank you. Thank you all for coming.