 June, you are back with the Vermont House Government Operations Committee. We are meeting for a few minutes here before floor session to, to go over what we hope to be a final draft of the provisions of S 354 right 354 that are most urgently needed before we convene again as a legislature in January. So I believe that there is a document up on the committee page and Betsy and do you want to walk us through what's contained there. Sure. Hello, everybody. It's not up just yet, but Andrew, if you want to give me share screen I can pull it up that way. I had just sent the doc to Andrea right before we got back on because I went through editing. So there was not a time for Andrea to get it posted yet, but it is in progress. I will share screen and we can review it now together but if you are going back and forth to the committee page I'm sure it will be up momentarily we're looking at draft 2.1. We discussed this earlier today. This would be a potential strike all to S 354 to only address the issue that is needed to be addressed before adjournment this year which this committee has discussed being the annual meetings for towns and school districts. You discussed at your meeting earlier today. I'll providing requiring every town and school district annual meeting to be held by Australian ballot unless they're able to be held consistent with state guidance on indoor meetings. You also discussed saying that if at that meeting the budget was rejected that the budget revote would be held by Australian ballot. You discussed deleting the prior drafts language that said that a town could hold its meaning by electronic means. You eliminated that language after hearing concerns from the Secretary of State's office about how to verify that the legal voters are the ones that are voting at that electronic town meeting. You remove reference to representative annual town meetings and you need to address the effective date being on passage. So this draft 2.1 attempts to incorporate all of those changes. It does address annual meetings and then that separate provision for special meetings. It's set up as a strike all so there would only be this one section and the effective date section. As far as annual meetings go or just talking only about annual meetings of towns and school districts. This language in subsection a subdivision one provides that notwithstanding any provision of law to the contrary due to the circumstances of the COVID-19 pandemic in the year 2021 only next year. Each annual town meeting and each annual town school district meeting shall be held using the Australian ballot system unless by the end of this year. The town or school district determines that it will hold its annual 2021 annual meeting in a manner that is consistent with the state guidance on indoor meetings. That is an effect on the date of this determination. As we've been going through this language Tucker and I Tucker brought up a really good point for you to consider here. Right now that language at the very end bottom of this page describes that instead of town meeting being held or annual meeting being held by Australian ballot, the municipality could do it by floor meeting if it's in accordance with state guidance on the date that the municipality makes its determination that it will do that. Which is by the end of this year is currently written but Tucker brought up the point that and what if the state guidance actually gets more restrictive due to the circumstances of COVID. So that's something to think about. We were discussing that perhaps that you can have it so that the annual meeting is held in a manner that is consistent with state guidance on indoor meetings. That will be in effect on the date of the meeting. If you do make that change that will require some prediction by the municipality as to what meeting spaces are available with some flexibility. They'll have to consider what the circumstances are at the end of this year when they're making that determination. So there's some flexibility in current law that allows a municipality to change the location of its polling place in less than 30 days prior to an election in cases of an emergency. That's in 17 VSA 2502 subsection C. What's suitable to consider is what if there's just not a place that's going to be suitable. If the circumstances change and the guidance gets more restrictive. So that's one logistical thing that we were thinking of. I can pause there I can just keep going madam chair if you want to just get through this and then return. Why don't you go ahead and keep going and we'll ponder this while we look at the rest. Okay. Moving on to page two. This is about the budget revote issue. This language is providing at the top of page two. If the budget the budget of the town or town school district is rejected at the 2021 annual meeting. The vote on the revised budget shall be held using the Australian ballot system. I just flagged that. That was as I understood it. What this committee decided, but I just highlighted that in case the budget. The annual meeting itself was actually held by floor vote, according to this language up above and subdivision a one. This is requiring all budget revotes to be held via Australian ballot. If a town would ordinarily be able to hold its votes budget revotes by floor vote and they had the space the safe space available to do that I just am flagging that also as another variable to consider. I'm going to move on though the subdivision a three. This is about the candidate eliminating the requirement for local candidates to get the voter signatures. So this is not withstanding 17 vs a 2681 be that requires voters signatures. Those are the 30 signatures or of the voters or 1% of the voters of the municipality whichever is less, at least for current law for general municipal law. So not withstanding that voter signature requirement, or any other provision a lot of the contrary in case there's another requirement and municipal charter. A person shall not be required to collect voter signatures in order to have the person's name placed on the ballot as a candidate for a local election that is held at the 2021 annual town meeting or 2021 annual town school district meeting. So just eliminating that requirement to get voter signatures to get a candidate's name placed on the ballot. And then finally there's that subsection be language about special meetings. So a was only about annual meetings, and there's a special meeting authority. We were originally thinking of the special meeting authority, just in case there was a special meeting that could be held before annual town meeting next year, or perhaps one after it. But the special meeting language is slightly different and that it's contingent upon there being still a COVID state of emergency. This language is saying that not withstanding the provisions of 17 vs a 2680 a that require the voters of a municipality to first get together to vote to apply the provisions of the Australian ballot system to a special meeting of the misspality, which is an original law to the contrary, such as in a charter. During the COVID-19 state of emergency, currently declared the legislative body of a municipality may vote to apply the Australian ballot system to an upcoming special meeting, not less than 60 days in advance of that meeting. If the legislative body determines it's necessary to do so in order to protect the public health safety or welfare due to the circumstances of the state of emergency. This language was in S 354 as past the Senate but applying to annual and special meetings, because you would already address annual meetings up above and a. This is a potential section to limit it only to special meetings. If that decision would that authority would only apply if the COVID-19 state of emergency is still in effect when the legislative body makes that decision and it have to be making that decision for meeting 60 days out, because 60 days is the general time frame that municipalities need to prepare the Australian ballot. So just stop sharing for now if that makes sense. The doc should probably be posted online by now we can look at each other and look at the doc together. Thank you. All right, committee discussion. Hopefully I can see John Ganon. Thank you. So, just so everybody knows. We heard back from Karen Horn about the $2 million. And it is apparently not available. Because this funding, all the CFR funding is supposed to be spent by December 30 of 2020. Obviously these would be expenses going into 2021. So, at least now, they're not and Chris winners is aware of that. And his recommendation is to go back to the original draft with respect to the Australian ballot language. And to respond with the petition language that's in this new draft. Committee discussion. Go ahead, Jim. So, um, thank you, Madam chair, a clarification question to Betsy and a couple of our towns have what's called informational sessions but they're really the beginning of a school meeting or a town meeting where some pretty germane stuff like elect the moderator. Maybe set the compensation of the school board members and then it's adjourned to an Australian ballot the next day or the next week. Would that not be allowed under this that everything would have to be Australian. I'm looking at that language. I, that was something that popped into mind, mind also so it's the authority and 17 vs a 2640 be that allows a town to start its annual meeting on any of the three days immediately proceeding the first Tuesday and March to transact transact business, not involving voting by Australian ballot or voting required by law to be by ballot. So it appears by the way that that is written that that's still considered the annual meeting. And this language seems to be applying all requiring all parts of the Australian of the annual meeting be by Australian ballot. I'm not necessarily saying that that's an issue. I guess a town could still have an informational session via online. If they wanted that was no voting, no voting. I would think so. Yes. Okay, so the other know so but I think the other question I have is it seems to me. Because I ran into this issue trying to locate a facility for one of my towns that the meeting location when you actually have a meeting has to be in that town. So, sometimes like killing 10 for example has a school and they have a large gym. That can accommodate. You know a meeting perhaps, you know within state guidelines. But another neighboring town say Mendon, for example, utilize a facility and killing 10 if they wanted to continue an in person meeting and be socially distant and have the capacity. I think you'd have to state that explicitly. The location of polling places statute 17 vs a 2502 a it provides that each polling place shall be located in a public place within the town. So I would think that you'd have to, it would seem that you'd need to provide some explicit authority to have a polling place outside of the town. So you'd have to be careful, you know about voter access to that outside of town. Yeah, and it's not, you know, I like the draft that you just presented us, and I'm fine with that. I'm just raising as a question. I don't know there must be others that have a neighboring town that has facilities that are a little bit bigger. It came up in Mendon because they lost the hotel that they usually had it in, and they were looking to use the state highway garage for example, a year or two ago. So, I'm just asking whether or not we want to consider it if we don't that's fine. Move on. Thank you. The other potentially complicating factor that that we have no way to predict is whether school buildings will want to make their facilities open for public meetings. You know, assuming we're still battling the virus at that point. Any other committee discussion. Alright, so we need to, we need to resolve the question of whether we are permissive with towns being able to use Australian ballot or whether we are prescriptive. And factoring in that we don't currently have money set aside to support the towns for that, but that we could come back and certainly advocate that. Well, if there was revenue that we could use for that purpose and the budget adjustment. John. I think consistent with what Chris winner says we should be permissive because otherwise we're putting an unfunded mandate on towns. So we should give them the choice of whether they want to use an Australian ballot or hold a meeting that's consistent with whatever state is when they, they make the decision in December. I understand Betsy's and concerns about how things may change. But when the select board, the legislative bodies making the decision, they have to make it based on the guidance that is currently the state is currently put out there. So I mean, I don't know if there's a way to then allow them to change that decision on an emergency basis if guidance becomes more restrictive. Good point. JP. So if we did that in funds did become available after January. Is there anything to prevent the town from accepting any available funds for this. In other words, the legislative body would have made a decision, but knowing at that time there are no funds available but should funds become available. Good to towns or cities still accept those funds. I think they could accept the funds. I mean I think there'd have to be some sort of legislative appropriation to allow them to do that. I know I know the last time I looked at the budget there was some language about potentially allowing reallocation of CRF funds. If more flexibility is given by the federal government, I think it's just a matter of how you get those funds to the municipality. I'm just not sure how that work would work in practice. I mean, I think that if the funds are there they could, they could use it to cover the cost of Australian ballot. It could depend on how the federal funds are the guidelines around how the federal funds can be used if they come up again. So for example the current federal funds I think there were some restrictions, as there are in most cases on funding things that aren't necessarily related to the current emergency or that were costs accrued based on decisions made before the state of emergency started. So I think that like that can always complicate it moving forward. One thing that I will note about the discussion about the legislative bodies determination being made prior to the end of December, potentially being impacted by future more restrictive orders concerning indoor meetings. I think that will be convened at that point. And if it's necessary to do so, the General Assembly could make a decision to, for example, allow electronic meetings in lieu of in person meetings or to provide temporary authority. Representative Harrison suggested to allow extra municipal meeting locations to try to utilize some of the state's infrastructure to allow meetings that can comply with a future executive order but also allow for the in person floor votes at the municipal level. Thanks Tucker. So trying to drive this towards consensus are we are we all on board with making this permissive for now. Given that we don't want to do an unfunded mandate for our municipalities. If you have an objection go ahead and unmute yourself because I'm having trouble seeing all the corners of my screen. So Betsy and we will need to see a change in that I've also been communicating with the chair of house education to make sure that she feels comfortable with with this being what school districts need. Yes I'm seeing that also. Yeah. So, sounds like if it's going to be permissive, and you're going to do you want to apply it to both annual and special meetings of towns and school districts. If it's going to be permissive. I believe so. Okay. And then, if we're talking about annual and special meetings. Do you want to apply this to all of the year 2021. Well, we, we could come back and change it if the, if, if all this went away and we felt that it was inappropriate to leave that authority to the legislative body in place. We could come back next January, February, March and change it is my thinking but feel free to jump in committee. So you're talking 21 calendar year as opposed to like a fiscal year. Yes. Yes 2021 calendar year. Although I'm, I'm seeing feedback in regard to schools is, I think they would want to use the 2020 to 2021 school year. Yeah. And we need to make sure that it applies to unified union districts as well as town school districts. Yeah. Committee discussion. Right. Does that sound like we're heading in the right direction committee. It does. I think we should ask the secretary state to pony up to 2 million though. You must have money left over from this election. Well, we won't know that till, till January, I would guess at this point. Then yeah, if you're making it permissive and it's going to apply also to special meetings and that takes care of the budget revote issue because that would be a special meeting. And that would be another permissive authority. Okay. Okay. All right. When should we come back to vote on this officially. When are you on, are you going back on the floor? Is that where you're. Yep, in two minutes. Okay. And when will you be off the floor any idea. Okay. I think terminally I have no idea when we're going to be off the floor. But it shouldn't take us long, I would assume, unless somebody throws a wrench in this works via email while we're on the floor. So committee, could we come directly back here. Not two minutes after the floor, but like leave and come right back here and we'll vote this out this afternoon. Jim's got his hand up. One bill. I may be wrong, but if that's the case. We're going to be on and off pretty quick, I think. Wouldn't that be nice. If that's the case, just so I'm able to touch base with our education attorney and make sure everything is hunky dory. Tunker and I, Tunker and I can just review the language. Can we say 330 just so I'm, so we're not rushing with bad language back to you. Okay. 330 or two minutes after the floor, one minute after the floor, whichever is later. Okay. Great. Andrea, you're the best. Thank you so much for being poised and ready to help us make this happen. And committee, thank you for, for hanging in here with this. I, I would like to be able to promise that this is the last bill, but I thought the one we presented on the floor yesterday was going to be the last one. All right, any other discussion before we end this meeting and head to the floor. I will keep an eye on email while I'm on the floor so Tucker and Betsy on if you have any questions, feel free to shoot them my way. And anyone else who's following along on this sorted path where on can also email me or or Andrea if you want to be able to get something in front of the committee. Thank you all.