 Hello and welcome to NewsClick. Today we are joined by K. Hemlata who is president, all India president of the Center for Indian Trade Unions. And we are going to discuss about the demonetization and its impact on the Indian working class. Welcome to NewsClick. So the demonetization has been there for last two months almost. What is its impact on the Indian working class? The impact on the Indian working class has been devastating, particularly on the unorganized workers. We are having reports that thousands of small industries, particularly the micro, mini and small industries and the medium industries also, have either closed down or they are not able to pay their workers on cash. And because the workers, most of them are migrant workers, they are not able to open the bank accounts. They do not have the bank accounts and most of them are illiterate and they need cash for their day-to-day requirements and the owners are not able to pay them in cash. So because of that the industries have closed and the workers are migrating back and there is a reportedly reverse migration what we call. So workers are going back because they are not able to sustain their lives in the cities. They are going back to their villages. The government has also been claiming that we are opening Jandan accounts and through that workers can take their money. So this entire process of digitalization that they are pushing, do you find it feasible? No, we do not think feasible because one is that even today around 35% of the country is not covered by banks, then the electricity, then the networking of the internet, they are not available. Even in Delhi what we find in the reports that the workers do not have the migrant workers, they do not have the bank accounts and even when now they are going to have the bank accounts, the bankers are not willing to open the accounts because they do not have the necessary documents, the identity cards. They were saying that the identity cards you have, they are from your state, so they want address from here, which they do not have. So that is one aspect. The other thing is, we came to know about a domestic worker who was saving some 10,000 rupees in 1000 notes. When she went to deposit that amount in the bank, then she was told that her Jandan, she had a Jandan account which is a zero balance account. When she went to deposit that amount, they refused. They said that it was black money, so they did not accept. So, these are very different types of problems faced by workers and because of this, we do not think that it is feasible at this juncture to digitalize economy and to force the other thing in cashless economy. So, do you think there has been any specific section in the working class that has been more impacted due to demonetization? For example, most of the unorganized sector also has women participation in it. So, it will have any impact on them? Definitely, unorganized sector workers are the most impacted and the migrant workers in the brickel industry, in the construction industry, in the textile, garments, etc. So, even in the engineering industry, steel industry in Delhi, the migrant workers are the most affected, unorganized sector workers are the most affected and naturally women who are part, large part of the unorganized section of workers, they are also affected and they are the responsible ones who are responsible to feed their families. It is very difficult for them even to buy the necessary things. So, women are also as part of the unorganized sector, they are also very much impacted. So, recently this organization of Indian manufacturers that had come out with a report, giving stats that how there is a large chunk of manufacturing units that have closed down. What do you have to say on that? We agree with that report, they say that 35 percent job losses have been there and they say that up to March, it is going to increase to 40-45 percent and the losses through the industry was also revenue, dip was also around 50 percent, they say it is also going to increase and all the reports from different quarters, the automobile sales have come down, the purchasing capacity and even in Gujarat, there was a report that the dairy farmers, they were not able to get their money. So, different quarters it is the same. So, I mean the Centre for Indian Trade Union has been fighting on this issue for long. There was a nationwide strike call on 2nd September, you had various charter of, you had a charter of demands, how do you plan to pursue it further when we have seen demortization and its impact? So, actually on November 28th, when the left parties gave a call, we were in our conference, in the 15th conference which was in Puri. On that day itself, all the over 2000 delegates, we held a human chain and demanded that workers should be paid in cash till the new currency notes are made available, old currency notes should be accepted. That was at that time. Then after coming from our conference, we had a meeting with the Kisan Sabha and the Agricultural Workers Union and this 19th, we are having an All India program where the three organizations, the CITU, All India Kisan Sabha and the Agricultural Workers Union, we are holding demonstrations at the district level demanding that there should be compensation for the job losses, for the wage losses and the crop losses because it is not only the workers, even the peasants are suffering. In many places, we are seeing that the farmers, they are not able to sell their produce and they are throwing their tomatoes, their potatoes and in some places we have received reports in Chattisgarh that they were distributing free. So, all these things, so altogether we are having this, so on these demands and also because of the reverse migration, the demand for MNREGA work that has increased, around 60 percent or more it has increased it is said. So, we are demanding that the allotment for MNREGA that should be increased and the workers should be paid on that, given jobs on MNREGA. And also we are on the other demands we are having that loan waiver for the farmers. So, with these demands we are organizing this and yesterday all the trade unions, central trade unions we met in INTC office and so we also as a, from the joint trade union platform, we have decided to organize demonstrations on 28th, 28th of this month on January, all over the country. When you talk about the joint trade unions, is BMS also part of it because if you look at the 2nd September strike, BMS withdrew at the last moment. No, this time it was not part at all. In 2015 it withdrew in the last moment, but in 2016 from the beginning it was not part of the strike call. But for this in the case of this demonetization also, initially they welcomed, they said that it was a good move and it is good. But later on they changed the statement, they said that it is leading to job losses and they do not believe that it is useful in unearthing black, many workers were facing difficulties. The intention was good, but it was not implemented properly. But anyway they are not part of this, they did not come to this. So, the other trade unions have given this call. This would be my last question. If you look at the Indian economy and the model of neoliberalism it had followed since last many years, the economy is making, it has resulted in growing inequalities and once this demonetization comes, what will happen to the economy? We have already seen the figures that GDP is coming down. Yes, GDP is coming down, that is one aspect. But as you said the inequalities are also growing. What we see is that this entire measure, first when they started, they said that it was meant to unearth black money and corruption, funding for terrorism, counterfeit notes, etc., etc. But later on the entire narrative changed. Now they are not talking about this. The thing is that digital economy, cashless economy, all these things, so entire exercise as we see it is only meant to benefit the international finance, finance capital. All the money has been mopped up into the banks, so the banks were facing this question of NPAs. Now again they will be able to loan to the big corporates, provide credit for them, but the people will be suffering. And the other thing is the IT companies, they will benefit the pay time, etc., they have given big advertisements and all these things. So the inequalities are bound to increase. The small traders, small business, they are all going to lose. So definitely in the coming period inequalities are going to increase. Thanks a lot for giving us your time and as these things proceed we will be coming back to you on such a day. Thank you. Thank you for watching Newscliff.