 This is Think Tech Hawaii, Community Matters here. Hi, welcome to QoqTalk. I'm Crystal here this Monday morning. So, I have a load for you today, and this is a mother load. How's that? Well, motherhood encompasses so much, yeah? I mean, there's the mess, there's the beauty, there's the pain, the pleasure, and the uncontrollability, and the unexpected, and anything you wanted to try to contain, it's just out of your control. And so, we're going to talk about these and celebrate the beauty of this mess in a loving way with two dancers and mothers and their gorgeous children. And men, if you think this has nothing to do with you, don't you dare go away because you guys made babies too, right? I mean, this is all part of life, and we're going to celebrate motherhood in more ways than we should if you know what I mean. Anyway, welcome to QoqTalk, and I'm going to introduce my two wonderful guests today. Next to me, we have Gwen Arbault, you are the originator of the Mama Ensemble. Is that right? Oh, I'm the producer of this show, but Mareva Minervi and I co-produced the previous show. Okay, and just to recap, this, unfortunately the French Festival is just over, but I was privileged enough to watch their performance on Thursday, Friday evening. Thursday? Thursday evening, and they only had one show because they had to deal with the whole group of babies and toddlers and mothers in tow, very pregnant women and everything. So it was a really beautiful performance, and I want to share a little bit about that. Before we do that, let's introduce our other guest today, Yana. Yana, you want to introduce yourself? Hi, everybody. My name is Yana. I'm originally from Prague, Czech Republic, and I am a bottom dancer. And I was absolutely excited to join Gwen and the rest of the local dancers for our first show and the second show. So it was absolute blast. So this is Skye. This is Skye. Hi, Skye. You want to wave to everybody? Hi. Hi. And Skye was in the show and Ezekiel was in the show. And you have an older son who was in the show as well. Yes. Yes, Eli was in the show as well. So let's go back to the first ensemble performance. You want to talk a little bit about your both part of that and your baby's very younger and he wasn't even here yet. Well, how did that come to be? Well, there were 13 dancers in Hawaii. In Honolulu area who were all pregnant at the same time. But we were all dancers in different genres. And I personally cross-pollinate my dancing quite a bit. So I started to notice, oh, Yana is pregnant in the ballroom community and I'm pregnant and there's somebody pregnant in the contact improv community. And there's someone pregnant over here in the burlesque community. And then we just all got together and we started to communicate. And then Mareba Minervi had this idea that she was going to get all the pregnant dancers together and do this breastfeeding piece. And I said, that's not a piece. That's a show. And we just do it as a show. And then other people had ideas. What could we do with these babies on stage? What could we do as dancers to show that we're still dancing? How could we be in a show and have our babies in rehearsal? Because that's what makes it convenient and possible to do this extra thing that normally we would just do in our extra time. But our extra time is full of babies and we have to bring our babies with us. And that's the thing. I mean, people think that when you have babies, everything stops. And if you were dancers before, that's it. That's the end of your career and you can't blend dance with babies and you proved that wrong. And let's talk about breastfeeding. Why is that such a taboo style? And why is it such a no-no to have a public display of it? What are your thoughts on that? What do you want? Oh, you want that. Okay. Eat your cookie later, okay? Promise. Okay? Yeah. Well, we were just thinking it's part of the life, you know? And we, as Gwen said, we knew each other before and we were all dancers. And we kind of all felt, but yes, we want to breastfeed. But we have to go back on the stage or back on the competition, back on the teaching world. And we have to take our babies with us and we want to breastfeed. And that's how the whole issue started. Breastfeeding on the public, breastfeeding in the car, how other people looking at us, when we actually have to breastfeed. And all the taboo and issues, I'm originally from Europe and I think we have a lot of kids centers and a lot of places when women are able to breastfeed in the public, in the airports, special corners actually created for women. And we said, well, it's not here. It's not here. Where are we going to do it? Ironically, it's much more accepted in Europe and here it's kind of a... I would have thought it would be quite open here but you don't feel that sense. I think it's just different. In Hawaii, you can breastfeed anywhere but then do you feel comfortable breastfeeding anywhere? And I feel like I feel very comfortable breastfeeding most places, including on stage, which I did, but both shows. But I think it's... Sometimes you're in a situation, you're at a bus stop and there's this skivvy guy looking at you and you don't want to breastfeed there. One time, I was in a situation where there were suddenly all these women in veils right outside of East West Center and I was breastfeeding my younger son and I suddenly felt uncomfortable. I was like, this is counterproductive to their beliefs for me to whip out my boob here and feed my child but then my child is screaming he's hungry. So how does his needs conflict with their... cultural norms? Like, these women are not even showing their hair or their arms, you know, and then I'm gonna, like, pull out my boob which seems like the right thing to do so I staved him off and he was screaming. So we had all these sorts of discussions in the first show, like, just situations we encountered. Yeah, I mean, where do you think that comes from? Is it because men associate the breasts with sexuality and so they can't really accept that this should be something publicly displayed or natural? I mean, or is that something that, okay, I don't want to see this because I don't want to associate my sexual desires with something that's not necessarily sexual at all, if anything. Do you think that's where it comes from? I don't think that people are just over-already for it yet. Yeah, they see the nudity and you are right. Some people might feel that it's too sexual. Some people just being bothered. They feel that you should do it in private. They don't want to look at it at all. Yeah. They don't necessarily see the urge or necessity like you have to do it for your baby. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, it's just, and it's an ongoing process because breastfeeding is kind of like the first interruption in your life that disrupts maybe your career. Here we go. Right now, yeah. I have to say that was the beauty of the show. I want to bring up a photo of the audience because as an audience member, I realized how much this was so all-encompassing that it was not just the performance on stage of the mothers performing with their babies and toddlers. It was the audience and the babies in the audience and the dads holding the babies on standby for the audience and the screaming babies in the back outside and that was all part of the performance. If you can take a look, there's a photo of the audience. Yeah. So, you know, the audience becomes the performers at the same time and it's really, really interesting because you think you have control of framing something and yet the frame leaks into something else and then you have to include that. You can't have hard structures as a mother, correct? No. You have to learn how to think beyond everything. Oh, yeah. As a dancer, I think we planned, we had rehearsals, right? We had schedule, but with child, you have to always adjust. You have to be very flexible. You cannot go according to what your original plan and be prepared for it. And I don't understand why you said there's a long way to go and actually agree because, you know, this whole kind of dominant structure that we live in still doesn't really respect the woman's world when it comes to motherhood and how that affects them and why we should accept that as being part of it and it's not a bad thing. Like, we just had an interruption just now because when was breastfeeding and you can't, you know, there are certain things that can't be shown or you can't talk about. I don't know. I mean, but let's just move on. There is another part of the show that was quite sweet, a mother-daughter dance. Now, this brings it a little older. So when the children are old enough to perform and interact with the mother in a very beautiful way, what was the, his story behind that piece? Sarah was not in the first show, but she saw the show and liked it and wanted to be in the second show and proposed doing this fan number with her daughter, who's six. She was really engaging. She was really special. I couldn't take my eyes off her. But there was a beauty of that mother-daughter relationship that happened on stage and in the process of making that piece. So I think that's really interesting. Why don't we talk about the men? How did the role of the husbands play in this whole process? Well, my husband is a dancer as well. So he understands the dance world. He could not attend the show because he was dancing and teaching himself in that moment. But of course he's very supportive. He's very supportive and we're looking forward to our child to dance. And we try... Skye, do you want to be a dancer? Yes. Yeah? Do you like to dance? We started ballet already. Oh, great. A little baby ballet. Yeah. So I have to say I'm very fortunate. He's very supportive. But also we have no other choice. Sometimes I tell him because we have no grandparents or any family support. So we try to really do it together. Wow, that's tough. Do you have any cookies? Do you have a cookie for Ziko? You want to give him one? You want to try to give him one? Yeah. You want a cookie? Look, look. Yeah, so again, mothers have to always jungle. And we talk about the mess and there was a part where this one lady came on with her child and kind of a stand-up comedy. What's her name? I'm Devaki. Yeah, so she came on and talked about the beauty of the mess, of remembering things in her life that kind of got all out of control because of her kid. And so how do we cope with things that make us out of control? Oh. Because it's just love and it's just hope, is it? And I tell you a call to friends. You talk about it. We help each other if you need. Yeah. And you just have to be positive and just breathe and let's go. For me, what helped, like becoming a mother because before, we're nose as a bottom dancer, very structured. Yes. Very on time, you know, a lot of shows, very professional. And suddenly the child comes to your life and everything is turned upside down and I cannot do what I wanted to do before. But somehow it made me find the priorities in life and it was really important. So I thought, okay, well, then I will be five minutes late to work. But I am with my child. I spend the great time what I have with her. So, and then you just, yeah. And then you laugh. And you hope that other people understand. It's not necessarily every time and true. Sometimes you cry. Yeah. Serial tears. Yeah. So motherhood is a mixed bag and you know, this is just a tip of the iceberg for people. I have teens and I have boy more problems. You think you're good. We're going to take a quick break and we're going to celebrate, continue celebrating the mess, the beauty of the mess of motherhood. So don't go away and we're going to talk more about things that we need to know about and talk about. Aloha. My name is Mark Shklav. I am the host of Think Tech Hawaii's Law Across the Sea. Law Across the Sea is on Think Tech Hawaii every other Monday at 11 a.m. Please join me where my guests talk about law topics and ideas and music and Hawaii Anna all across the sea from Hawaii and back again. Aloha. Aloha. I'm Wendy Lo and I'm coming to you every other Tuesday at 2 o'clock live from Think Tech Hawaii and on our show we talk about taking your health back and what does that mean? It means mind, body and soul. Anything you can do that makes your body healthier and happier is what we're going to be talking about whether it's spiritual health, mental health, fascia health, beautiful smile health, whatever it means let's take healthy back. Aloha. Back on Quark Talk I'm Crystal here talking about the motherload. Oh my, the mess and the interruptions and things that go upside down and you have to kind of continue with life and laugh it off. So we have here again members of the mom ensemble which was on the fringe just this past weekend we have Gwen and Yana and Ezekiel and Skye. Welcome back. Can I have a cookie? Thank you. Can I have one please? Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for sharing. That's another thing. I loved the piece where the two women played the babies or the toddlers when they fight over each other's things they had blocks and like mine and so you cleverly flipped the lens and gave gave weight to their world and my favorite piece really was when you all brought under your kids one at a time and you watched what they did and they imitated you imitated them. What started that piece? That piece was the idea of Michelle Poplar she really wanted to put it in the first show and it just didn't fit and so we still wanted to do it and the idea was just to do like a follow the leader and make the child be the son and make the child be in charge and so even the soundtrack there was each child singing or talking and so we were able to just follow them and kind of highlight them spotlight on them for a moment and show that their movement is valid and interesting. Absolutely not just valid it's interesting and we often times as adults kind of look down and say they don't know any better we control them and yet they have their own lives and we learn from them in different ways it's actually very insightful it started off with the little girl doing flipping her purple dress and then she got distracted by the lights and the way you followed her and mimicked her but it all became part of the dance was just it was beautiful yeah what have you learned from this process of being able to combine motherhood with your dance careers? Oh play dates that are rehearsals right so we realize now that like we could be in a rehearsal and then suddenly my son goes swooping through and he takes the Pilates ball out from under me I don't want to make sure I make sure that I'm not going to be I'm not going to be flat on my back I think we enjoy the show but I think we enjoy the process of creating it and the rehearsals even more so we met every week and we brought the kids and then we were able to mimic them and watch them but kind of goes through the rehearsal as I said before and maybe not necessarily rehearsed but end up chatting what we've done during the day and what we need to do or rehearse a little bit of peace and then we clean the mess around the children but I think it was really like a friendship and love and creation and I really think that all of us we really do enjoy those rehearsals tremendously and then we are so happy that people enjoy the show but for us it's already a gift that we were able to do it and share it and how did your husband support this process because in the show one father came out and you guys made him clean up in a very endearing way and he was smiling a little about it so what do you think I mean there are some people are going to say oh this is an obvious reversal of roles you know what's your take on that oh no the husbands they need to do laundry too we're on very progressive households they need to cook and help us and do the laundry and I think well mainly they were able to babysit and take care of the children when we need to go rehearse and dance without the children so you think this is a learning process for them too as you did this piece yes for sure yeah my husband was backstage the whole time both pieces with the baby strapped to him yeah you know and then he just has to be ready with his cue to put he's not a dancer he's not a dancer he's in the culinary field so he had to like be ready to put the baby out on stage each time and and it was really a reversal because he was standing next to me in the audience and he was on standby with the baby and the toddler and being on standby as a man some men don't feel they should be in that position yes right and so you know what does that say about roles and equality or just the beauty of parenting together well yeah I mean I feel like there was a learning curve there yeah it was harder this time because we had a baby and a toddler for him to do that before he just had the baby and my son had separation anxiety he was outside screaming with him and did he ever feel like he didn't want to be a part of this or it was like too much or like any of the dads feel that way French when is it going to be over extra work but then he loved it too he was really excited that he got to see more of it this time uh huh yeah well I as a European originally this European background and I have a mixed marriage my husband is a born new worker he's American but I have to say I Europeanize him a little bit in that accent because we're coming from very equal society I have to say for me American way it's a little bit different because I don't feel like we are not equal I feel very equal with my husband and my man and since beginning when we met and we had a childhood together we split the roles and so I'm very fortunate but of course I'm playing the pressure on him too this is what you're going to do and we're going to do it together but I hear what you're saying and I think it's very common that the men feel that maybe women should do most of the work and they would like not to do it yeah uh it's still a very male dominated world correct correct yeah but maybe in our household we try to share it more but as I say since we were talking about the culture a little bit before previously especially in the center Europe the many women worked and I think it's very common for men to stay home with a child and actually take care of the child uh so we are more equal in those roles hmm hmm yeah and I think you brought out some very very many different perspectives on this um let's go back to the body we talked about breastfeeding earlier um but the post birth body a lot of women can't really handle that new reality and men can't either it's like they don't know what you know their sexual desires and their conversation with the woman's body let's talk about your personal experiences and how that affected you and your perspective on the body well I think I danced all through pregnancy um in full time and it was fine because pregnancy is this gradual as this gradual growth of your stomach and you just kind of like rebalance all the time but um after birth it was really hard to adjust because it was this sudden change and I was very top heavy you know anything up here really to deal with weight wise right and it was it was very hard to dance after that for a while it took me months um after both pregnancies to get back to like okay I can figure out my sense of balance and um dance effectively and then your joints are all loose from yeah and the floppy skin and the floppy skin right right and and the floppy your boobs are great but you know later on they get floppy and floppy and you gotta deal with that my stomach's like a map actually we should celebrate that with the stretch marks because that's the map of your life right yeah you should be celebrating these kind of markings of life you know what's your experience my experience similar like Gwen I was teaching literally to the last day at the studio so I was able I was fortunate enough that the pregnancy went quite easy on the beginning and I was able to teach uh I actually have to say that I was more bothered by being pregnant than later on not being pregnant because as a dancer being pregnant was bothering me in the motion in the movement so I was not able to work and teach and dance as I wanted to even though because I enjoyed being pregnant don't get me wrong but it was in my way and then after the delivery uh it just takes some time especially for the dancer to get back to the flexibility or get the muscles back together and you have to work on it and then you feel the maybe pressure feel the pressure get back to the shape because you need to put the costume back on and look the best you can but that makes you work harder and it makes you a stronger person think about that this whole process of childbirth and motherhood just makes you such a resilient person in our short minute left do you have any some tips on motherhood and how they should embrace this process or anything you want to I think everybody should just enjoy it uh because it's a blessing no matter what you feel on the beginning if you are ready for it or not I think one is happen you will take it one step a day any time and please enjoy it ladies enjoy the moments right enjoy it it goes very fast they grow from the little ones to bigger and then it's gone yeah Gwen? I think a lot of us have talked about making it an artistic opportunity instead of saying we need to step back because we're pregnant or we need to step back because we just had a child or we need to step back because our baby needs us we've said artistic opportunity yeah absolutely that's great and I'm going to leave it at that the creativity of the mess that's the beauty of motherhood and the motherload thank you so much for joining us today and sorry for the mess but it's important life lessons and thank you for joining us