 I'm not sure how many of you remember the interview that Jank Euger had with Ro Khanna prior to the House voting on bipartisan infrastructure because this was when all of us were screaming at the top of our lungs Please do not vote on bipartisan infrastructure if you remember of the House before the Senate votes on build back better Because if you do that you're gonna give away your leverage and they're gonna have no reason to support build back better well Turns out we were right there were only six progressives members of the squad who voted against a bipartisan infrastructure everyone else went along with it and What happened fast forward today build back better is dead so Before this happened Jank Euger asked Ro Khanna. Why would you vote for this? What's what's the point? You know, what assurances do you have that mansion isn't going to change his mind after you give him what he wants And that is this corporate giveaway in the bipartisan infrastructure bill and Ro Khanna Said that he believed that the president had some sort of a deal with Joe Manchin and that he believed that even if You know, they give him this corporate giveaway. They're going to Still vote for a build back better. Well, that was completely Disproven and so Jank Euger is going to ask him about this and this was a really interesting interview here Credit to Jank Euger for holding him accountable and also even though I disagree with Ro here And I'm very disappointed in him. I give him credit for still engaging with people who are critical of him I mean both times that I brought Ro Khan on my program It was after I was talking shit like he reached out So this is someone who is not afraid to engage so even if we do disagree with him And it hurts my brain to think of the strategic miscalculations that he makes time and again He still is a good actor. He's a good guy. I just wish that He would maybe take advice from some people on the left. I don't know. I don't know So let's go ahead and watch this For all of us. That's interesting idea of sorry, let me go back I'm in the conversation. This one's gonna be very interesting congressman Ro Khanna's back He's also got a book out. It's called dignity in a digital age making the tech work for all of us That's interesting idea of that a progressive legislator has to bring in the rest of the country Even though he represents telecom Valley, obviously, there's some interesting votes in Congress a lot to talk about Congressman Khanna, welcome back to TYT. Thanks for having me No problem. So Ro before we get to the book a lot to talk about since we last talked So I agree with that emo dragon sure that was the day of the vote on decoupling infrastructure and build back better and We thought it was a bad idea we as in here at TOTI did and And that if we decoupled it, we would not get build back better at all And there was the philosophy of trust Biden and so that obviously didn't work Now Joe Manchin has killed it entirely So was it a mistake to go with the trust Biden strategy? Yes No, because I don't think we would have had any other option The reality is even if you had not passed infrastructure, you still wouldn't have had Build back better in its form. So the question is do you think infrastructure did marginally more good than a Harm for society. I think it did a significant amount of good. It took out lead pipes and Expanded rural broadband Construction jobs now I still think we need The climate provisions and a lot of what was in build back better and we're working to get it getting it But candidly it's not going to be what it was that the house passed so Well did the fact is that that was not the argument at the time Let's be honest right the argument at the time was we should trust Biden and that he had a secret plan and That he had an agreement with Manchin and they were going to pass build back better Are you saying now that no that was never the deal and you guys knew build back better was going to be killed by Manchin or Did Biden have no plan at all because it's one of the other It's fair question. I always thought there was a risk. I didn't think it was a short. I just want to pause because There's a flaw with Ro Khanna's analysis It is true that there are some good things in the bipartisan infrastructure proposal, right replacing a lot of lead pipes Not all but a lot on top of that. There's the investments in broadband and that is important But overall it is in that negative and I want to remind you all of this really insightful thread from AOC So she talked about why if you just passed bipartisan infrastructure, but not build back better We are net doing more harm overall to the planet. So This was from November 7th So on the issue of climate think of bipartisan infrastructure as a lock and build back better as the key Locks only open with keys bipartisan infrastructure climate benefits only unlock with build back better provisions if we message bipartisan infrastructure as good on climate alone when it's not we stop the pressure for build back better's passage Do not let this happen the desire to pass both together Isn't the unnuanced stance some pundits think it is bipartisan infrastructure has a lot of bad stuff in it That's how they got GOP votes It's also has a lot of good stuff in it what you're hearing on TV Passing and build back better unlocks bipartisan infrastructure's climate goods So the good prevails if build back better isn't delivered with bipartisan infrastructure's oil and gas locked in we're in trouble We're in trouble That is what makes it a huge gamble. So again, we need to pressure to deliver the promise on build back better for anyone Middle-aged and younger. Let's hope the same Kyoto all over again because we're going to live with the outcome Spoiler alert. It is Kyoto all over again, and we will indeed live with the outcome So with the way that all of infrastructure was split, right? We have the Roads and bridges and then the human infrastructure build back better Overall, we are net doing more harm by just passing that portion overall to the planet So I don't agree overall with Ro Khanna. I sympathize with the fact that there are some good things but the whole point of splitting it in two was to fuck over progressives So that's why you had to hold strong and vote against it, but let's go ahead and let them finish here But we thought that the best chance of passing build back better was to get the president to put out a framework and get the president's Commitment around it. We felt pretty confident that that framework Would allow the the passage obviously that didn't work But had we not voted for infrastructure, I don't think we would have had build back better We this was our highest probability play of getting build back better. It didn't work Yeah, the reason is because I don't think I don't think Senator Manchin cared enough about infrastructure to Say, okay, if I vote for I need infrastructures, but cinema did so I just don't think Having been part of the conversation is that you know, his concern is the spending and he's fine But there'd be nothing and so the question is how do you get? I think that's true in a lot of instances, but in the bipartisan infrastructure proposal as AOC pointed out. I Mean there are a lot of things that corporate America wants hence why you got so many Republicans to go along with it So I just don't agree with here I think that he's misreading the situation and he's putting way too much faith into Joe Manchin But thankfully Zheng actually addresses this and he addresses comments that Ro Khanna made which we talked about on my program a Couple of days ago, or maybe it was last week either way basically Ro Khanna said we really have to Give respect to Manchin and pay deference to Manchin and let him come up with something essentially His answer to that is not very persuasive, but I am glad that Jeng asked the question for something we thought this was not the highest probability play obviously turned out Not to work in the case of Bill Beck better. Yeah, I don't agree I think he really wanted infrastructure bill because it was filled with corporate pork And so that's what yeah great point Gamer G. Don't forget Manchin said he was okay with four trillion around Biden's inauguration That's exactly it. That's exactly it So to believe that he is sincere when he says I'm worried about the debt and the deficit. No, that's bullshit That is complete bullshit and on CNN on the Sunday show I think with Jake Tapper he was talking about how the military needs additional money for this Ukraine spat So, you know, no concern whatsoever about, you know, the debt the deficit doesn't care at all You know when it's something bad when it's militarism The price doesn't matter, but when it comes to helping people that's when he's a deficit hawk So, you know, don't listen to the deficit schools because they always conveniently bring up their concern for the debt and the deficit When we're talking about helping normal Americans on corporate pork So if you threatened his donor's money, then that was your best chance great point That's why he was upset the exactly structure. Otherwise, you wouldn't have been upset at all So but now okay water on the bridge, although it isn't it was a total debacle and an obvious mistake, but now Now You said last week, I believe we should give Manchin the deference and respect not to put something together That could be a consensus meaning let him write the bill in fact You said give him the pen and let him write the bill and then after you said that Manchin came out and said yeah, here's my version of the bill nothing. It's dead Yeah, and that's why what he said was such a bad look because he said this on morning Joe and then like an hour or so after that Manchin said this build back better. He's asked about the build back better and he says what's build back better? What's that? It's dead That's what he said. So I feel like Jank is trying so hard to get him to understand that they are plaguing you they don't respect you in the way that you respect them play a hard ball and It's it's so hard to watch because you're all kind of just doesn't get it. Thank you so much nexus for the tier one sub I really appreciate that and Again, I don't I just want to be really clear here You know, it's hard for me to get angry with Ro Khanna because he's so willing to engage He's such a good faith actor But I think that being a good guy being a good faith actor You know, that doesn't mean that you can't be naive and I feel like this is bordering on naivete with the way that he pays deference To Joe Manchin just constantly and I'm glad that Jank you were is calling him out here and desperately trying to get him to See the fucking light because holy shit. I just it's it's Maddening to listen to well does not prove that Manchin is a bad faith actor only works for his donors And never had any intention of passing any of Build Back Better. Yes No, because that In the media but he said he's not for the house version of Build Back Better than that as he put it his dad He is for a new bill now What I have said is that if you want to pass climate and let's just be realistic It's gonna be a uphill midterm. It always is with the president's party We have a narrow majority obviously we're gonna fight but if we don't get climate in 2022 who knows when we get climate so we have to mind you get climate and to do that You need Manchin's vote and you need he's okay with 400 and 500 billion of climate spending in a new bill What I said is give him the pen as you pointed out let him come up with a graph Obviously if there's some poison pill in there, we wouldn't support it But I think we can come to a consensus and get climate and and what are the alternatives? No climate for who knows how many years so I'll get to the alternatives in a second, but I just Imagine thinking that Joe Manchin is going to write a sufficient climate bill. I Just it's so frustrating Manchin as governor and also as a US senator He has done specific things to help protect his family's coal company any Climate legislation that he passed as a governor. He had carve-outs for his coal company. So that way the waste from his coal company was characterized legally as An alternative energy source in the same way that we characterize Wind solar and hydro as an alternative energy energy source. So Joe Manchin doesn't give a flying fuck about the environment He just cares about his coal company. So I mean if he just gives people a blank check if he says, okay Here's 400,000 progressives go ahead and write what you want create a civilian climate core That's one thing. But do you honestly trust Joe Manchin to in good faith come to you with actually meaningful Climate change legislation, of course not if you do row. I've got an NFT to sell you. It's not gonna happen. It's just God I don't want to get mad at row because he is a good faith actor He actually cares But at some point you've got to play hardball if you care about these issues and I believe row cares about these issues You have to play a hardball at some point because rolling over Being subservient to fucking Joe Manchin being overly deferential. It's not working question on on the current strategy, so Are you saying that you think Joe Manchin is gonna write a build-back better bill first of all? Let's say that he's now president Biden's agenda is totally irrelevant. We're literally saying I mean, I'm not saying you're saying it and it appears Biden and Pelosi is Schumer saying it let Manchin write whatever you want So, okay, that's we don't even have to ask that question apparently he's president Or even though nobody in the country voted for him outside of West Virginia, but okay even accepting that Do you really think he's gonna write a bill That is gonna have meaningful climate legislation. He owns a coal company his top-downs are fossil fuel Companies I have that at approximately 0% chance of happening So let me ask you both in that way is it it's binary is it even gonna happen and then second of all if you think it is gonna happen What on God's green earth would Manchin's donors find acceptable that they would put in the bill Well, first of all, you know the clean electricity program is already out of the bill back better And that there are provisions that I would want in That including a methane fee and the fossil fuel subsidies that aren't gonna pass a Senate So obviously he's not gonna write the bill that I would write or that progressives would write I mean try to use that against him, you know, just a few minutes ago. Rocchano said that Joe Manchin is a deficit hawk So, okay, aren't fossil fuel subsidies spendy Can't you try to use that against them because in theory if you are a deficit hawk You would be opposed to this unnecessary spending, but of course not You know Joe Manchin he wants these subsidies. He's a coal baron. So use this against them I mean you have so much ammunition But rose just too nice of a person. Maybe he's conflict diverse. I sympathize with that. I am too to an extent, but I Just really frustrating Or is that even president Biden would write but where he will be fine in my opinion Is four to five hundred billion dollars of investment and renewable energy electric vehicles In solar a John welcome building up batteries and building up the infrastructure of the smart grid and that's it's significant That's the biggest investment in climate. We've ever made. So is it perfect? No But is it much better than not having those investments? Absolutely And he's always said he's for the innovation investments where he gets a concern is where there's gonna be a price of fossil fuel and carbon Some of us would want and the fossil fuel subsidies price on methane and I'm acknowledging that may not Make it in but I still rather have 500 billion of climate investment than nothing. Okay, I you know I get it you've at least convinced me that there is a tiny percentage chance that something exists and imagine us to hurry up and get solar donors and Electric car donors and once he gets checks from them, maybe there's a prayer that some version of that Could pass what else would be in the bill? He as I understand from his public comment says four three-year-old and four-year-olds getting a preschool and Buster can you already have so this is not a hard list But it'd be a big deal to make sure every three and four-year-old gets a preschool I love how we all have to basically hope and pray that this fucking dipshit from this small state Let's us Have these fucking incremental list incremental solutions like you take a good policy You know you cut it in half you means tested then you cut it in half again And means tested even more and so we just have to like hope and pray and cross our fingers that he's gonna be Kind enough to let us fucking have some crumbs And that simultaneously him and his colleague Kristen cinema are both going to fucking Budget, what is what a shitty system? We need to abolish the fucking Senate I feel like that's the default position for everyone on the left. It has to be abolish the Senate Okay, you should not have two senators if your state has three people living there. I'm sorry. What a stupid concept our entire Political system is so fucked almost beyond repair We have a Supreme Court a fucking judicial system that really is you know our human rights our civil rights and civil liberties hinges on the health and well-being of 80 plus year olds in the Supreme Court We have an electoral college that can literally subvert the will of the people a Presidential candidate can get more votes than their opponent and still lose the presidency How fucked from top to bottom is this system because it's such a fucked system We have to grovel at the feet of these fucking coal barons and beg them to do a little bit to maybe save the planet From catastrophic climate change. It's just Unfucking real. What's the population of West Virginia? By the way, let me look this up Like how many people actually live in this state? So 1.79 million people live in West Virginia Now how many people voted for Joe Manchin? He got 290,000 votes 290,000 votes so these people Get to basically They elected someone who controls our entire political system. What is that? What a dumb system? How fucking stupid? This isn't representation this is insane insane and the binary choice between Republican light or Extreme Republican is like what is this? What a terrible fucking system? Sorry folks the senator from this state who got 300,000 votes who's representing I use the word representation, you know very charitably here has just like under 2 million They get to control the course of humanity the future of humanity. How insane is that? Jesus Christ That's a great point emo dragon of the 290,000 Democrats that voted for Joe Manchin How many of them voted for Paul and Jean's origin at first how many of them were voting strategically because they felt like Patrick Morsi or Morrison was worse So you have at least a third of those people Unenthusiastically voting for Joe Manchin and this one fuckface gets to control climate policy for what the next ten years At this pivotal moment It's just this is not What democracy is supposed to be I mean to the extent that we have a democracy in the US It's fatally flawed. It's hanging on by a thread what we've got. It's just it's so frustrating It is so frustrating and you know in the event we ever were to have some sort of reform We get rid of the electoral college. We do Electoral reform so we have multiple parties. Well, the problem is that we live in a capitalist system So if we get like a multi-party system someday, which will never happen because nobody's fighting for it Or even knows how to do that But if we get a multi-party system then how long before capitalism corrupts those parties It's just our whole system is fundamentally flawed and people need to think deeper It's not just about oh the politicians the makeup of Congress currently is bad And when we replace these politicians when we have a better lineup of people in Congress than things will change when we get Millennials and Gen Zers in Congress things will change. No, the whole system is flawed. It is built this way It is fundamentally fucked So until people start really zeroing in on these systemic issues with our country nothing is going to change nothing