 hello hello hello hi guys hi how are you it's lovely look at you sporting your glasses I love it thank you those are those are awesome how are you doing I'm alright man I'm alright things are crazy yeah yeah yeah yeah we know you you guys know you guys well I wanted you and your family okay yeah well it's tough yeah I understand yeah totally well I want to thank you so much for talking to us we've we've been a admirer of yours since we first the first thing we actually saw you and surprisingly I believe actually it wasn't the first thing I thought it was sir because we saw that at the beginning this year when it came out but I we we did see and greasy medium and we were actually at the premiere were you at the premiere yeah we were we were at the premiere in Mumbai yeah you might have seen more of my work than my family and yeah I remember these things usually awkward right yeah like these large gatherings you have to see a work what if you don't like it and or but then everyone's worked really hard and then you can't know they usually very stressful these screenings so I usually don't remember yeah no we got we were there but the the screening actually didn't have subtitles so we watched the film would completely with no subtitles yes we had we had that my love and Ronnie who is Bengali was sitting in between us so she speaks Hindi as well so she was quietly turning the both of us and translating for you guys really strong connection with India and given that you watch so many films and visited India yeah it's been it's been quite quite a journey absolutely and we we are very actually excited that we we ended up finding you finally because once we what you say so how did you how did you actually get started in acting well actually I was in college and I just entered first-year college in Delhi and I saw you know your first day there's a there's a kind of cultural program and there was a one-man show by this incredible artist called Piyush Mishra he's now written for the films that you've seen coming out of India every third or fourth film he's written the lyrics for the songs he's a really gifted really gifted man and he did this one-man show and I remember seeing it and thinking wow what kind of people are these who can have such empathy for being able to portray you know such and if he played I don't even remember how many but quite a few characters and and he just you know just moved from one to another so seamlessly and I saw him and I was like really I would really love to I would really love to have this kind of empathy you know but I don't know how it's possible to inhabit the lives of others without having empathy you know and but my issue was while that was really attractive as an idea I had a stammer and you know my father has a staff so it was really like like of course I can't be an actor but wouldn't it be wonderful but I it coincided my getting into college coincided with me encountering a Buddhist philosophy and and having grown up in a household that doesn't believe in any kind of you know there's no spiritual practice or you know religion and because my father was quite you know grew up in the Air Force and he was like you know we have really seen people do very inhumane things in the name of religion so it's never allowed it's not going to be allowed in our home and but I saw myself really attracted to this philosophy and it didn't seem like you know you know if it seemed like really about personal exploration and I don't know I think I was just really wondering I was so tired of being mediocre you know I was one of those kids was just not good at anything even my handwriting was in spectacular you know that kid who can like you know there at least their handwriting is you know good or they're really good at music or maybe like and I don't mean by good by being really great but you know they have a talent for something like a propensity for something I was really good at being sincere but that's not a when you're 14 15 16 you have a stammer I mean what am I gonna do with sincerity you know I'm not gonna like what am I like what what is that thing it's so it's so shitty you know I'm and don't let only your parents can love you for being sincere you know yeah I think I was very crippled by and my parents never made me feel there's anything wrong with me because of the stammer so I'm really grateful for they create such a sense of normalcy around it but I was very crippled by the idea that I don't have anything you know like what it what am I here for I could I could study engineering I could become a doctor if I worked hard I could do anything but what do I want to do I really don't know because I'm not good at really anything you know and I think I took up this philosophy really because I think it believes in the idea and my mentor believed in the idea of that every one of us is so unique and the person who knows why they're put on this earth to what you know to do that's that person is enlightened and an ordinary human just doesn't know why they're here and I know something about that just attracted me to it and I took to it because I really wanted to know what am I good at you know what am I put here and and I as I started practicing it coincided with me seeing this amazing one-man show and a year into college I must have the courage to audition for something it was a silent role which is why I could get away no one knew I had a stammer and because I kind of manage life in mono syllables quite effectively you know but I once I started acting I think with a couple of like 20 30 shows and my stammer just kind of disappeared and I knew something I knew there was something therapeutic that happened and that I have the language for it then and then I looked online and you had to go to cyber cafes back then because no one had a personal computer at home it was all it's also romantic right now but anyway so there was that time and so yeah I went to a cyber cafe and found that there's drama therapy theater education and I said okay so that's what happened and now I'm curious I really want to know that's that's how I meant to study and and all that happened yeah yeah and what led you from Delhi to focusing your educational training and then teaching because there's a whole lot I know you did in New York what led you to York well actually once I realized that something something mysterious that happened with me something therapeutic something I knew the drama had told the cops sitting in my head that don't listen to them I know I know they're gonna tell you that you can't do this but don't listen to them and and so I knew something had happened I knew my life was opening up and so I had anyway decided that I want to study more and I really really want to study I want to understand what happened and acting was really not something given that nobody in my family comes from that background it was not something that was really viable it but I mean it was alright as a something one was interested in but as a career so I knew I had to study and I had a anyway very academic bent of mind I love studying I can be a I want to be a student all my life and so I did my master's in finish my master's in literature and I was planning to do my second master's in drama therapy or wherever I get in you know there were three American universities that I had applied to there was Harvard Columbia and NYU because you know each application was so expensive Harvard rejected and I just needed that for it and why you happen and and yeah and it took a long time you know from when one actually wanted to go to one actually going because it is it is so difficult for an average American to afford that kind of private university tuition earning in dollars and it's it absolutely impossible for a middle-class Indian family to even want it but I wanted it and I think that's the confidence that my that this philosophy was giving me I was like I want it I don't care what my circumstances are I also know why I want it I do think something that happened to me was incredible and I think if I can learn it and I can you know this can this can be many other people's stories and you know I don't know I was just really committed to it and it took five years I applied for a national scholarship it had many many rounds I've worked a lot in that time in in on myself and teaching theater and publishing children you know it was just just a lot of odd jobs while I was studying and and I think in doing all that kind of realize that I really do want to study and in that time once in wedding happened so after the success of once in wedding I was told to actually that come to Bombay you know that that's where it is and I went to Bombay man a few people thought I was a maid I was really a maid and they were really surprised I spoke English then some people weren't really sure what they would do with someone like me because I stood in the cross-section of things the mainstream I'm talking about 2001 2002 once in wedding was a kind of breakout film right was one of the indie film that did really well commercially in India it was not it didn't follow the formula of anything that came before it so it was a bit of a it was a wild card you know and that was my dad was an absolute wild card right and and so I thought wow man this is how great it is so so I guess you know it's gonna be really easy your first film with me and I it does really well I guess it's just gonna be wonderful from now I would have to go for a sabbatical for ten years thought my head out and come back and like okay I'm ready you know but no it was it was Bombay was very very overwhelming and very unknown to me and also I don't blame anybody there who I met in that in those few you know two weeks I think I didn't know what to do either and they didn't know what to do with me either you know and and so I left I was very very convinced that this is not my time to be here and I must I always wanted to do this study you know I wanted to know what happened to me and I should just follow it and I was told that just give it some time this is a really demanding city it's courier suicide if you leave right now because everyone's talking about this film and there was so much empathy for the characters of Alice and do be and you know I we got so much attention despite who and I received the script and you know how you sit you know I sat with the pen to underline my lines where my scenes and I kept turning and oh she picks up a plate and I was like damn it and the first film and it's like I'm just picking up plates and I really I don't even like doing this at home but I knew I knew something really special happened I mean Mira you know who is a magnet and it's like just the energy was I was intoxicated I was absolutely drunk like punch drunk the kind of charisma she has yeah and and I don't think I realize who Declan Quinn was you know I I mean what kind of films he's shot to be able to give a new actor or a new actor to have such a seasoned such an incredible DOP who shot the entire film almost at handheld so that an actor like me a completely new actor never even understands and you just I mean just do what you have to do you I'll follow you okay this is like okay this I guess it's simple you know and and that was your first experience so you know you're really like you're really I was really really blessed but it wasn't it didn't make it easy it made also then my standards and expectations from life and from this world it just became so much she set the standard and bar so high that if I couldn't get that then it had to be something else which was just as meaningful for me and that happened to be studying so I was told like a steered told me that this is career suicide you know you shouldn't leave and I just was so convinced and it's not learning be suicidal you know it can't be what you put in to yourself doesn't dissipate into nothing you know it becomes something I'm so glad I'm so glad I went because you know acting formally you know and and then getting an opportunity to to be amongst you know classmates and colleagues and who knew a few forms of dance could play instruments they were really trained you know and I didn't know how to dance or play any instrument nor can I sing nor can I dance nor can I I don't know I know special skills I done a film it was successful and then people just assume that you must be talented then because people associate success with talent it's not it's not necessarily true yeah I felt like a failure every day of my graduate program and why you because I just knew that I was so I just you know I just I'm just gonna get a taste of things I'm never gonna be an expert thing and but you know these things take time you know you you feel you're not really learning anything and you walk away from it feeling like so shitty about yourself and five years down the line you know I mean I finished my graduation and then I work at Rikers Island and I did drama therapy there and work you know with inmates there with women in domestic violence shelters kids in New York who you know had you know South Asian background over from China and we're finding it really difficult to what's the word to assimilate into American culture but I think my the days at Rikers watching the inmates process information being transformed by them that that they're really challenged me because they couldn't understand my accent I couldn't understand this so much of slang that you think I'm a lemon do you think I'm a lemon I'm like no I don't think you're a lemon at all then I start crying you know like little bit but I'm a I'm a teacher I'm the facilitator and he's like no I just mean then he answered I didn't understand anything he's like no I mean do you think I was born yesterday I was like oh that's what it means are you a lemon I was like oh my god I even when you think you've kind of gotten somewhere you spent five years to get the scholarship to come and study in this country you studied really hard while everyone slept you were still in this library because you know you're like my goodness my country's paid for this entire incredibly expensive tuition so I just must study extra even though no one's asked me to get a job that you know you really like you know you might one of my professors at NYU ran this company and I really harassed him I think emotionally I've come all the way from India just to study for me I know you run this company I'm telling you I really need a job in your company otherwise I'm gonna go back really disappointed all the way you know and I mean you know thank God he gave me that job because but you know you know and I've never felt like oh man I got this you know it's great I've you know it's always been feeling like you're in the deep end and you might learn or you might not you know but I think right I think observing understanding that the inmates there were really serving time and making that connection many years later when I left my life in America for many reasons I had you know my love story with America came to an end and once I decided to come back and I was in an audition room I realized how much I'd actually learned and and I was I was yeah I was ready I think I was ready for Bombay now after having been in New York I think I think New York toughened me up you know it's tough city yeah to survive as a student and it toughened me up riker stuff in me up the idea the connection that my ability and the chance and the gift that I had to observe the the students at Rikers the young men and women there who were serving time made me realize that you cinema is just an exploration of time you know you know you make someone in a film can show you you know a day it can it can collapse 20 years in two hours it's how you frame time and and I never realized that that my interactions with them what they would teach me would have such a profound impact on how I audition and and I I understand time you know and rhythm in a scene it I mean really they became they are they really were the best acting teachers I could have ever had and and I'm so glad I left Bombay when I did because I don't think I would have ever been able to I don't think I would even attracted the kind of films that I did you know I don't think a kisser or so any of these would have really happened yeah because in order to embrace the unfamiliar I you know I had I had to I think I had to shed a lot of skin which which happened like cuz because it it's so raw you know you're sitting between guilt and innocence you're sitting between people you know your sanity and insanity you're so it's such a liminal space being in a correct correctional facility you really wonder why am I not inside why you here you know it's just a matter of chance it's just a matter of privilege and yeah that I mean it did it I also left America because of Rikers Island while Rikers Island gave me so much and while America gave me so much I think when you love someone you shouldn't know about them so soon things about them so soon it's a bit deep love them too soon and I think I I just I you know I would love you to be a student but once I started working in America the way the correctional facilities work the the profiling there yeah combined when you see each student each child there they were put on certain drugs when they acted out those drugs have side effects of severe depression anxiety then they put on antidepressants yep but then so they're it they're rigged for failure and it's systematic and it's done through medicine I couldn't wrap my brain around it yeah I was in mind this is insane I can't make my money from this this can't be my paycheck I'm going to go back and act in films I think I've had I've had my heart like my heart was twisted like I just felt like I couldn't I couldn't it was too much uh and uh and so yeah and you know I feel like we're chatting like is this all right did you guys this this is wonderful what we want yeah this is we love this you could be a motivational speaker like it's it's it's wonderful to listen to you you're you you can see the the genuineness that you you were talking about in your roles as well um so yeah this is this is totally fine this is what we love we whenever we interview people we just want it to be a chat we don't really want it to be like a an interview so it's wonderful don't don't worry about uh anything um I did want to since you were talking about something about you guys where you guys sitting at right now where where I'm sitting in my bedroom where are you sitting right and I'm I'm actually sitting I've I spent Memorial Day weekend and a few days before that at uh at my mom's so I'm about a 40 minute drive from Corbin but I've been with my mom for the past Memorial Day weekend and a few days prior yeah which part of America you guys are Los Angeles Los Angeles okay and and your mom as well yeah we're here in LA yeah I live with my wife and baby I know I told you about the baby that I said yes this one just looks so cute yeah he's adorable he's adorable my world really adorable yeah I did want to ask you about because so you talked about monsoon wedding and it was it's so funny that you talked about you you're looking for all your lines right and you're just picking up a plate but when we saw it you you and Vijay Roz your chemistry was the like even though everybody in that film was phenomenal and that film was really really good that's the part that really stuck out to us your chemistry with Vijay Roz uh in that film uh can can you talk about uh that and the chemistry you had with him did you feel that chemistry uh with him on uh while you were filming though actually I rehearsed with some an entirely different actor oh really uh and uh after rehearsals were over it's a very very well known uh massively popular actor mm-hmm Shah Shah Rukh Khan right comic timing and yeah the comedian and a very senior actor and I think I'm maybe like 15 years older than me or something anyway so we did our rehearsals and uh I got finalized and uh and then Mira realized that there's already the underlining current of uh pedophilia in the film and uh having Dube looks so much older than Alice uh she didn't want not and so she could either recast me or or Dube and I'm so glad I didn't know this was good but she recast this really well known actor wow and I mean no one would have no one knew me you know say it wouldn't really matter she got cast she got replaced whatever who cares uh but for some reason she changed and if Vijay's casting was really last minute we are I mean he's a dear friend now but so I never met him I never had any rehearsal with him uh and uh so the chemistry was really the chemistry that one feels when one is in the hands of a really phenomenal director I was in love with Mira yeah and uh and the camera was like a really a really kind friend like the kind of palpitations I felt while theater is where it all started and I'm so grateful for it but I was always aware of the audience in in a play in a live act and it made me very nervous the kind of person I was like for me acting was an act of defiance you know I was just trying to prove that I can do it yeah because if I can do that then I can do other things which are very important for me beyond acting and uh yeah but when I was in front of Declan Quinn's camera I realized that my goodness it's such a such a kind friend who just sees everything who can see what's going on inside you without you having to do much whereas in theater you have to project a lot so the person in the last row can hear you see you feel you and and here I just felt I felt so comfortable I just knew it that this is this is that sweet spot that I was looking for where I don't feel and I don't feel less I just feel you know and uh and Mira gave that to me and I'm so grateful uh shit what was your question please yeah man I knew it once I was there like those scenes that were of her trying out jewelry I just said she's trying out jewelry he sees how she takes it off but basically I think I was just miffed about not having big lines and you know thinking it's not important uh but at first it was so important it was so such an important character and uh and the chemistry was really I think the chemistry that I I felt with the director I felt with the you know the camera I felt with with cinema because it was really my first you know and video was you know so wonderful like he did his own thing I did my own thing he never told me how to act he had done work already he was a much seasoned actor he came from the repertory he had done years and years he had years and years of training and uh you know such humility to have not said anything they all knew I was like a complete you know I was reading you know English literature in between takes you know had so much to study uh and uh but there was he was so wonderful in being completely non-judgmental and leaving it to the director I mean she's cast her you know who am I to say anything yeah but yeah but yeah there is chemistry when I saw the film for the first time it was a penis and uh I never sat on a flight before because yeah it was an international flight and two people were chosen uh to represent the film and and uh it was Nasir and I and uh this hawks back to uh the conversation in the green room I used to feel a little sad on some days everybody's getting makeup done Alice has no makeup so I was like man and the movies and you know the fuck you know you want to be glamorous yeah exactly it's not happening and the makeup lady Lulu was so amazing she would just put these aromatic Dr house cup portions just to make me just scream and but you know really nice cream and these like sprints there's and you know she would spray all these things to make me feel special because I told her I feel really bad you spend hours and hours on the other actors and I just have to wear a sari and then some casual and that's it I'm done so you know she would like give me a head my heart so in one of those sessions Mira had walked in and she like she like what do you do I'm like yeah I'm doing my no makeup makeup just trying to make me feel important and uh and she's having a chat to where where all in the world have you traveled and I was like actually nowhere but you know I'm an armchair traveler I've read so much about so many cultures and you know but I've not seen any of these places and so she just you know we talked a lot and she mentioned something about uh well I'll do what I can to show you a little bit of the world people say things yeah they'll say a lot of things uh in our industry and um yeah two years later film was done everyone's forgotten everybody moved on and I get a call that two people are selected and that was one was me in the costume you know that cast yeah like you know like they're like national treasures I mean each of them are really wonderful actors who have won so many awards and and she kept her promise so here I was sitting on a flight never never stepped outside my country and I land in Venice the first place unfair dang the airport with my name plaque and uh he takes me to he said you know your taxi is waiting the taxi I was looking so what a taxi man are you supposed to like you know jump universes like that without some sort of prep in between um but you know there was it was just so special to have that kind of um uh I I think it was just some many things coming together which made me feel like uh which is what I why I have continued practicing Buddhism and I've continued with acting because I feel it's it brings together a lot of things in my life which I wouldn't have traveled to these places and I have wouldn't have had the dream you know audacity to meet the kind of people um um uh I'm not saying you have to travel to be broad minded there are a lot of us who travel are very well traveled but are complete bigots you know um and and I know people who have not traveled and who don't have degrees and who are extremely open minded and uh so I don't think that's important uh but I'm very grateful I'm very grateful that I got you yeah yeah yeah so you you said that one of the key elements that catapulted you into acting for lack of better term was watching a one person show have you ever done one uh I tried doing uh something of that kind in Lincoln Center I did a one woman show um which was basically a retelling of the uh a particular Indian epic very well known Indian epic from the woman's point of view um I did do that yeah but my level of skill was and nothing compared to the one man show that I saw the thing is I have good taste things I have good taste that that matters you know that counts and I've had yes yes yes yeah I think I've heard you say that you've made a career out of playing marginalized people uh I think that I heard you say that in an interview is that something that's important to you or is that just something that um that just kind of happened are those just the characters you you flock to because of you you feel sympathetic or you you can empathize with them I you know I don't think it I I think it would be foolish for me to say just things just happen uh because I think everything happens for a reason I think it uh you know so um I wouldn't say it's coincidence or chance uh but those were also the films that came to me that I really liked and not too much I haven't said no to too much you know I think I just naturally repel certain kinds of things like we all do like certain kind of people want want you know come anywhere near me and uh I think we all do that right we we attract uh you know we attract a certain kind of drama each of us depending on our own uh stuff that's going on inside us and uh but it it catches up with you I think uh now looking back 20 years I do feel that yes I have made a living out of playing characters that are marginalized and are really poor and uh I'm tired of that I realized that two years ago that uh I never had an issue right like with playing a class that I don't belong to playing a gender that I don't belong to playing a religion that I've not grown up with uh learning a language that you know I've learned so many languages for you know different films um but I think I was doing not I think I know I was doing Gotham Ghosh's film Raghir and uh I mean I you know I mean these two characters are just traversing this insane land insanely difficult landscape harsh landscape it's just rock and dry heat and wind and and then they get stuck in the rain and then you know it's just raining and and we are just shooting and we're just shooting and I fall sick and in our fever but we have to keep shooting and and I'm in a bus stop and it was seen I remember where Adil and I in a bus stop and we're taking shelter we're absolutely soaking wet and then we have sleep there that night it's just a film yeah so we're just shooting for those few days few weeks and um I remember shivering shivering in that bus stop I'm thinking oh my god I just want to go back to my room I just want to go back to my dry hotel room that bed and and then just feeling the sense of guilt that oh my goodness you can't even you're finding it so difficult to just ask the part of a woman who has to do this every day and this is the country where I come from it's so normal we are so whatever the word is I desensitize not sensitize oh shit did I lose you guys no no we're here I don't know you're here can you hear us and uh yeah yeah okay okay cool and I I realized that okay this is this is great and but I do want to take a break from I just want to play characters that are rich I'm not rich either you know how come I don't get cast for people who are really rich what do I get the tragic in my husband's really he's a funny guy and he was like man he he's really action films and and comedy and and she's like you know I love you but like your films are really intense it's not really something I would watch by choice you know you know and and you know and so you've got to do a little bit of comedy you know you've got to like lighten up otherwise this marriage and I'm like okay okay I like sometimes you just need to understand that you've got comfortable you've got comfortable in a certain zone and you know I am in the person who's very intense and and my partner has really come in in the last 10 years and challenged that in so many ways right in my personal life but I don't think I had the courage for it to transition in my work life because I was so comfortable playing a certain kind of characters because it came to me easily whereas comedy has a very different timing and you know but I I'm so glad because Hindi medium which was this ungrazy medium which you guys saw was a sequel to a film and and there it was wonderful it was comic it was and my scenes were just with Irfan and you know we enjoyed it was just about timing and we just got to laugh and and and I realized I really do want to I do want to explore the lighter vein of life and and things that are not necessarily so intense and also now I did want to take a break from making money from representing you know people who have so little I I have much more and I was getting a bit uncomfortable it didn't matter early honestly didn't matter because it's a part right you do your best as an artist to learn the language to understand the nuance of the part to understand the character and you don't think about it beyond that but 20 years down the line when people can only imagine you in a certain way and in a certain you know it's like the stereotyping that happens across the world is reveals so much about our biases right you you see a person in a certain way and you can only imagine them in a certain way you know and it was really it was great and I didn't feel shallow at all there with my manager I just want to play someone rich okay that's hilarious it felt great great to do do that and you know so yeah right um is there so I would say that was my next question but I think you just answered it that if it was a kind of role you would like to play the most right now it would probably be a very very wealthy woman and a great comedy yeah absolutely or a really horrid person you know I get I get to play really noble but really poor in really tragic situation you know uh and and while I'm really happy that you know the the the optimism like I mean you know Ratna instead she's so wonderful like I felt privileged to play her but I'm so not that person you know in terms and I don't mean by class but it's just the the sense of lightness the sense of resilience and you know it was so refreshing you know but uh yeah I would really like to play someone who is horrid you could play a good villain no right I really want to um uh yeah there's something exciting that I've shot for which was really really fun because I'm so bad I just loved it it was so good to be bad I can't tell you but like oh my god I was born to be bad I love it I can't I can't wait for that oh I'm very excited for whatever this is coming up I will tell you when I can it's right now under wraps that might be some re-shoot so yeah but I that looks awesome I can't I can't wait to see that you've worked I want to ask you a few questions about Kisa because we we loved Kisa absolutely adored it but I want to talk to you one about working with Irfan multiple times in your relationship with Irfan but also playing a character that grew up thinking he was a different she was a different gender than what she was uh what can you talk about the experience of playing that role because it was a very complex role and you did it beautifully thank you thank you so much I think I think after Mira the next director who came and turned my world upside down and has shaped it so profoundly was a noob sing um because I asked the usual questions oh I was so caught up about playing you know it's an actor's dream right to get a part like that where you you know it's a gender vendor you don't get parts like that very often and you don't get parts like that so well contextualized in in your own history and culture um and uh and and also you rarely get a film where you are really you yourself are unable to understand the mystery of the film yeah uh because it's a folk tale and like how it ends it's it's left a lot of people who've been with the film and loved it and not like the last because they got confused what really happened but for me that was I it was one of my conversations with Irfan whereas very slyly Rasika and I thought we'll over dinner we'll ask Irfan what really happens in that scene and once he tells us we'll know but we pretend like we know it anyway you know where he and I come the father and the son become one I mean it's in Christianity these yeah these these motives and uh are across cultures you know uh but we wanted to understand the linear in a linear fashion what really happens exactly who am I who is he where is who is left because you know so you're trying to understand and uh you know to say so you know Irfan what do you that scene yeah you're gonna shoot that you know he's like what what what are your feelings about him huh and he just looks to he's melt the shit and he's like look through it and he was like why do you want to know everything why why uh you know and I was like you're like even I don't understand it I said what even you don't understand it we're so far you know and you don't understand it and he was like yeah and as usual you know it was something just so profound and something so irreverent at the same time and he just said but you don't need to understand everything it's so boring to do a film where you understand everything and you've understood everything then you come and share this pre-prepared understanding in front of the camera and then the audience what is it and if you're efficient enough and you're economic enough and people are kind of think that you're good enough you will be applauded for it and be like yeah but he said it's rare in your career to come across scripts and parts that you yourself don't understand entirely but something in it resonates with something deeply within you you know and and he's really like he was really right that I mean you know there's that scene when we actually shot for that scene it didn't matter it didn't matter to me because he lifts me up and then he opens his mouth really he opens his mouth and almost swallows me in and the way we shoot it is that I just disappear so I have to collapse and fall at his feet uh and then it's just hip in the frame and uh when I actually shot for it if I was holding me up and then I just slipped and I saw his mouth open and then I just slipped and I felt his feet and I kept looking at his feet there were he has beautiful feet really beautiful and I just looked at his feet and I was like man I love your feet I could be here at your feet for hours I could do you can do this as many times as you want it was hot the stand was hot but I couldn't feel anything I was just looking at his feet you know and uh and that's when I realized that that's perhaps how cover felt that you know she loves her father so much that if he needed her to look and feel and be like a man then that's what she would be even if it meant unhighlating herself he literally his desire for a son was so manic like the desire for a son is so prevalent in most of India that the female in front side is so still something we are grappling with that um he was willing to erase the identity of his beloved in order for his beloved to look like something that was socially uh permissible and and and she was willing to do that for him you know and that's love you know so uh you know it was it's one of those things like and I know I have completely digressed into a story about Irfan but it's really uh and he told me something he said you have to understand like whenever I would complain to him about not having work that was good enough and and he'd be like don't complain man it's just so irritating to have actors wine about not having work we've all we've all not had work so I'm like yeah easy for you to say you have some work right now and you know and he was like don't be this tragedy queen and you know uh just know that you are damn lucky that you are sitting here and working with Anup at a you know I would kill for that I'm I'm truly Anup is a magnificent director the kind of tools that Anup has given me like I was discussing with Irfan like there was a scene where we were stuck and he gave me an example he helped me in a very peculiar way and he helped Irfan in a very peculiar way and when we both met later and we discussed how did you how what did he tell you because we were stuck and I was amazed at what technique he used with Irfan what technique he used with me and how he like you know I would I would keep asking should I watch Boyzone Cry should I watch this film you know the other films where you know he's like I don't want you to watch any of these films because I don't want to play a man I just want you to focus on doing whatever it takes to make your father love you great advice yeah that was my focus my focus was you want me to do this you want me to take my breath you want me to be whatever you know as much as I can but I'm really tiny you know yeah I can only do so much but I'll do whatever it takes and that's all so the focus immediately went from you know how to be a man and I need to sit like this and I need to do that and and which man are you going to copy which two men walk alike and sit alike what is manly enough who is a man right you know and he just broke I mean our friendship is you know it's one of my most he's like really a such a dear friend and I'm so lucky to have him in my life and I'll never take it for granted given that Irfan wanted to you know move to a better place and but but Anu like whatever he's given me in this film are tools that I can I've used in so many other films after that I think that's what was so remarkable about him you know there are certain people in certain directors when they you are around them their energy is so charismatic that they'll just bring out something from you right Anu has that he also has something else he'll give you things that you can use even after he is gone and that is just generosity right because these are like I mean I never thought I would have to I could look at a Chinese painting and look at a dragon stroke and understand how I can plan a scene I didn't know I didn't know a Chinese painting could help me understand a scene like in in case they're telling me that so who are your actors in the scene and I'm like yeah there's Irfan's said no what what else and you know you have that hill there that mountain there another tree there and you know are you at odds with them or are they your friends because depending on whether you are in in harmony with them or in confrontation with your environment your body language will be completely different I never took into account the architecture of his face when I acted I just took into account the people but we enter certain rooms and we are very comfortable you know we enter certain spaces and we are very comfortable and we enter certain spaces and we're not comfortable we don't know why but it changes the way we move around in that room the way we talk to people so I mean like this one example but like Anup has given me so many such you know such things that it was really an acting school for me all over again like really relearning and and as first the whole gender fluidity his celebration of androgyny his his own ethos and philosophy I mean you know my conversations with him is that you know there's so much of the violence that we are seeing in this world today is because we want to create divisions you know we want it these binaries man woman men have to be like this women have to be this is what it needs to be a married this is what it means to be Indian you know this is what it means to be you know this is what it means to be successful this is what a talented person looks like this is what it you know you should do this is what you shouldn't do and this is national this is being a patriot this is being anti-national and so much of these divisions that we make there's such a violence in you know that this side of this you have to be on this side of the line you can't be friends with this you can't be here and be friends with this side of the line you know and these so that's why I think this sense of absolute that you know shattering it and really celebrating that which we don't understand entirely but can resonate with you know that which is androgynous that which is familiar and yet unfamiliar you know that which you understand and yet don't understand this kind of acceptance of it was in the script it's in the director it was in the way the process that we took to you know shoot the film uh it's such a sense of play there wasn't you know uh it was like if you did one take this way we did another take completely different there was no sense of this is the truth you know we'll arrive at it we'll arrive at it you know at something that that's that's that was like it was a really deeply spiritual experience to work on a film like that and to get paid for it and you know to to have made those friends and uh it's it was transformational it was really beyond what you uh and and I did do many films after that which were for money or for a certain kind of character because I was intrigued by that character but uh I do I do feel something is happening something is shifting where I realized that the people we work with have a profound profound influence on your life and I'm sure you I'm sure you two do interviews together review films together the kind of understanding you know that you have built and created over time is so precious right and and so I you know I have to say that I mean Anup has also opened a gate in my life where I'm attracting certain kinds of people and certain kinds of directors and collaborators who um who deeply care about the work and deeply care about you so if you're not in a good and your mom is not well they will understand it because work is not the only thing in life you know uh and uh and us as human beings and and kind of celebrating that and bringing that into the work I mean the kind of directors now like you know Rima that's so many village rock stars and oh yes oh yes so she's like another wonderful wonderful gift that has happened to me so I'm getting a chance to work with Rima um then there's a director called Somyan and the Sahi uh it's going to be his debut feature but he's a really incredible DOP he's shot the last in the last few years the best films that have come out of India uh Ibali and Nasir uh Anamika have all been shot by him and uh when I met him for his film and you know I realized that just talking and reading his film I realized that what kind of human being has written this film I really want to meet that person and when I met him I was just like I'll do anything I'll do anything for you because I realize when when you meet people like directors like that human beings like that like you you've just got to you've got to know that this hasn't happened by some accident right and we don't know how long we are going to all be here so and that Anup really taught me not to take it for granted um uh you know when you encounter such such people um so yeah I can go on talking about Anup he's he's changed he's really changed so much so which is why I was horrified when my husband met Anup after screening of Tissa and went out for dinner and then he came home for some coffee and chocolate and Anup was you know he's wonderfully inclusive so you know he never separates work from the family and he always wanted to meet whoever so he asked Kunal he asked my partner what do you think about the film and uh Kunal my husband knows how important this is for me you know and I've been obsessed with this project I prepped for the film for nine months you know and then we shot for it so still Kunal told him yeah it's a good film but you know I have something to say to you and I really think would I snap and I think you and what the hell like you can't talk to my you know Anup was just laughing he was just like he sound just like my wife but anyway man these are like these are it's it's really precious when you can love what you do and in that journey meet people who transform you so deeply and you know uh it's amazing it's really amazing absolutely um and I want to talk to you about um the uh I can't believe I just lost my place I was it was funny it was it was listening to you and then I apologize oh yes sorry I got it um did you uh do you or um will you ever have interest in coming to Hollywood or any other industry around the world uh in acting in in in different uh films in different industries outside of India because uh I just say selfishly we want people in in in America to um see you uh obviously we want them to see your work that you you've already done but to see you prominently in in maybe a Hollywood film or even films around the world does that any of any interest to you you know I really thought when I was I was in New York for four and a half years right and uh and uh I could have taken a flight to LA many a times please right uh right uh but I just was so afraid because I uh it felt too much it felt too much uh and New York and what happened was the few additions that I did get called for the parts were so um what do I say they were so insipid uh and uh they were it was just a matter of the race it had nothing to do with what I could bring to the table and uh and I did realize then that no this is not what I want to do I'd rather go and back into bodywood film which I which is uh you know um uh yeah which it makes that makes more sense to me than this because yeah if I have tried all my education have to play a stereotype of an of an Indian yeah in America I'm here I'm here on a master's program at the top of my class right being funded by by Indians you know um it doesn't make sense for me to put set the clock back um uh people have worked so hard to to be able to look at each other as as human beings look at I mean I mean I lived in New York right I mean every second person that you bump into on your way to work on your way back is from a country different from yours yeah so when when that is the level of diversity why do our films look like this absolutely I don't get it and I would love I mean we've grown up watching American films right and we were you know uh so the the kind of impact and influence American films have had and European films have had and Japanese films have had and Korean films have had our lives are huge uh so it would be great to work in in LA but it has to uh you know it would be really nice to be cast uh uh I don't know it just needs to be a little bit more blind man it needs to uh it to be uh okay I cannot I cannot explain this in words without offending anybody but what what I do want to give an example is actress Maggie Chung who's married to Olivia Sy this French amazing director and uh Maggie Chung is from China but I think she was grew up in London but spent some time in France so she speaks fluent Cantonese uh uh she speaks uh uh French she speaks English and in in one of Olivia Sy's film where he cast her and she's done this Maggie Chung has done this incredible I mean we talk about in the mood for love and so many so many uh you know other incredible huge blockbuster Chinese films classical where she's the classical you know beauty and uh and then Olivia Sy sees her for the woman that she is who can speak multiple languages seamlessly move from one culture to another and this film I saw of of hers which she directed she's I think when she goes into the kitchen she's speaking in Chinese she comes out she's speaking in French and she steps out for a call and she's speaking in English uh and I realized that I wait for this I wait for this where I can I can be with a Indian man in a room and the scene starts and we are we are in the middle of a scene without having to explain that oh she's the immigrant neighbor you know from India yes or that terrorist or she is the lady who works in the 7-11 uh you know the man who works his wife I don't need all this signaling because I've lived in that country I love many things about that country and I do see that the country across section of that country looks um so diverse you know uh so and I've had that experience with America and I've been included in spaces where I've not been made to feel the color of my skin and and and I feel like I will and and I do think it's happened now it's happening now in in the kind of you know it's not happening when I was there Lehman brothers had just come down yeah you know it was a missed situation 2008 the you know uh America was hurting it was hurting uh and uh uh so um and that's why I left because I was like no I can't do that I can't do that but yes man I would love to I would love to uh you know I think I think we need to celebrate I think we need scripts where we don't explain so much about signals so much about what people who are gods are and you know yeah you know which country we come from you know it's uh it's boring you know to talk about these yeah because we do you know I mean that was that was like I mean my bagel shop was run by somebody from Ukraine and you know where I where I picked up my dry cleaning was by somebody else whose son was also studying with me at NYU right he thought this is you know this the kind of crisscrossing why can't our cinema reflect that you know absolutely um and I do hope it will and I think it's already moving towards that I mean there's some wonderful kind of assimilation that has happened but has it happened for actors who don't have a North American accent you know so I really uh I mean Irfan has you know uh been one of those few actors who have uh but yeah I still feel like if the language if the way I speak English is different from the way you speak English and the way somebody else in another city in America speaks English differently we all have different accents that's what but in a scene when you come together lot like you know the bathroom in my office in New York where there were different people shitting pissing washing their hands sounding very different if that was seen enough in would you explain why that person sounds like that and why this person sounds like that would be exposition that's not drama that's not cinematic absolutely absolutely but um we'll get them and I really I really believe we'll get there you know and we'll I think we'll have you guys are the bridges right like we are the bridges I think you know uh where we're talking about craft we're talking about cinema we're talking about you know what we like what we don't like and it's not so uh so tell me what is it like in India you know you've been to India you know you know uh so yeah so it'll happen and I really want it to happen but it has to happen in a way that makes sense yes yes well what is it like in India I'm kidding I'm kidding I'm kidding I'm kidding uh well I do want to thank you so much for for chatting with us it's been an absolute pleasure I want to end it off with just some dumb questions just to get you know a little better uh one coffee or chai coffee coffee coffee black no sugar no milk it has to be good coffee single estate preferably yeah I love it uh favorite alcoholic beverage no no no no no no no no no no Starbucks is sorry Starbucks but your coffee's bitter I was it is over roasted yeah oh it is it's it's I worked at Starbucks for many many years they have some of the worst beans uh uh ever uh they have terrible terrible beans uh favorite favorite alcoholic beverage if you drink I don't drink anymore okay I it's been more than 10 years yeah so I don't know I I wish it could be cool and say something but favorite favorite non-alcoholic beverage then uh oh man there's this uh this is amazing thing I'd love to make it for you guys whenever we meet if you roast these raw mangoes and then you make it into you roast it so it has a really woody finish it has a really woody aftertaste because you roast it for a while and then you make a puree out of it and then you then you make the concentrate and then you just put some masalas in it which is just roasted cumin powder and just roasted and then making a powder and then add it and add salt and you can add some mint leaves and then oh my goodness it's just delicious yes yes yes yes yes and we can meet and you know I'm shooting for something in LA maybe and then we should whenever we absolutely will meet whenever you come here or if we are back in there uh whenever whenever the world allows us to travel again uh we would love to do that uh favorite Hollywood film wow favorite I love the favorite actually oh nice it was really I'm just kind of think I've not seen films for the last two years because I felt fiction has just not cut it for me at all given that the reality has been so you know I found it very difficult to escape to fiction and watch anything but I remember before the log that I was in Singapore and I watched the favorite and it was just blown by so many things in that film the sound design performances um yeah I was I was yeah favorite favorite Indian film any region favorite Indian film there's so many uh uh I there's a film called Meghe Dhaka Tara which which I really really enjoy and go back to it uh yeah isn't it cruel to choose something and to feel like if you have two kids and ask you you do exactly yeah I know I just yeah I don't know what to do with you when we meet uh favorite favorite uh Hollywood actor male and female oh gosh so difficult I'm seeing people's faces you know and then I'm just wondering why should I pick you and not you you could say a couple that's fine you don't have to say one just just tell us who you like but truly uh truly the them them I don't know I don't even know where to start um oh my goodness uh what was that film uh favorite film I just didn't I didn't choose that but what marriage on marriage yeah the marriage story recently marriage story oh my goodness with um Adam Driver and um Scarlett Johansson right yeah I didn't know like I didn't know who to root for you know uh it was just uh my goodness and yeah if I have to think they were both I mean incredible examples of wonderful American actors of their time pushing pushing pushing pushing uh the medium and trying different things um yeah yeah but I just but because I I remember a scene from that film thinking favorite actors how I love them in that film and uh I realized I love that film too actually it's a great it was a great film I'm gonna find great ways of not answering your question that's fine that's fine and your your favorite thing to have for breakfast my favorite thing to have for breakfast would be uh lots of fruits like mango I could eat mangoes and lots of mangoes for breakfast and if it's been a rough night then I'd be happy to uh eat a burger you know it might as well die eating a burger well I want to thank you so much for for chatting with us it's been an absolute pleasure uh it's it's been just like you said talking talking to a friend even though we we just met you you're such a genuine person and you're such a talented actress and uh we would love to just talk to you in person anytime you're in LA anytime we're back in India we'd love to just sit down and have a coffee with you so uh looking forward to that right yes absolutely absolutely any of the things like for example the project that's under wraps right now please we the moment we know of anything else that you're doing we want to know so we can share it with everybody that we're connected with and I I'm reminded of what you said at the very beginning of the the interview you had said that you were thinking about what you wanted to do with your life and all you can think about was being sincere and who the hell gets paid to be sincere but you've actually in a very providential way have become exactly that very thing because all of the work that you do and in this interview there is a depth of sincerity about you that you should never in any way question or lose because you are you're doing what that young girl said I can just be sincere I see it in everything you do so don't change stay exactly the way that you are absolutely okay thank you so much thank you yeah thanks guys you have a lot thank you you too stay safe yeah thank you bye bye