 37 apologies for the delay folks and I think the first thing on the agenda is the agenda. I would move to approve the agenda. Second. Moved by Councillor Stromberg and seconded by Commissioner Hart. Any discussion? All those in favor please say aye. Aye. All in the opposed? Passes unanimously. The second item is the minutes. Could I have a motion to approve the minutes? Thank you seconded by Commissioner Hart. Any discussion? All those in favor please say aye. I think Councillor Stromberg might have, I couldn't tell if she was raising her hand. Oh you're on mute over in person. You're on mute we can't hear anything. Sorry I, and then you mute. Okay they're both muted. Sorry we have some technical stuff here. Apologies. I just wanted to say that I'm recusing myself from the vote because I wasn't on the committee during that time. Well noted. Thank you Jane. Great so we've got approvals and one recusal. Any opposed? And that passes unanimously with change or crucial. Next thing we have is public forum. Any, and just for folks who are new or aren't, who don't know, we run public forum. There is a public forum at the beginning. Folks can feel free to speak there on any of the things on our agenda or other things that they want to discuss. And then for each agenda item we also have public forum. So if folks hear the presentation and then they have questions, comments and our thoughts we, there's another opportunity for that. But seeing no hands raised will go into presentation. I'm so sorry sir I may just jump in right quickly. I have a new commissioner that has yet to be. Oh great. Quick introduction of what I think would be awesome. Fantastic I think that would be great. Great so we're going to do a quick round of introductions. Do you want to do it from everyone or would that be helpful to you? Please. So I'll start and then we can maybe round Robin it. I'm sorry I'm a City Councilor on the Public Safety Committee and Chair and I'll pass it to Shareen. And you're on mute Shareen. Shareen Hart and I got to meet Susan last night. Susie last night at our first in-person meeting. So welcome Susie. Thank you Shareen. Oh Stephanie. Hi Stephanie Seguino on the Police Commission as well. Hello Stephanie. Let's pass it to Charis. Hi this is Charis Ninh with Polita Consult. Consult for the Joint Committee. Ryan. I'll pass it to David. Great. Hi David Menke. I am also a consultant for Tolita Consult and I'll pass it to Ryan. Hi everyone I'm Ryan Matau and I work for MIG working in partnership with Tolita Consult. Hi there. Tell her why don't you take it next. Hi my name is Ella Wynne. I am an analyst with Tolita Consult. Thank you. Jane and Jabu. Hi I'm Jane Stromberg. I'm the Ward 8 City Councilor here in Burlington and a new committee member this year. And I'm Jabalani Gamash but you can call me Jabu and I'm a Commissioner on the Police Commission here in Burlington. And we have Milo in the attendees. Somebody could promote her. I don't have that. And Milo we were just doing a quick round of introductions if you want to introduce yourself. Thank you. My name is Milo Grant. I live in Ward 3 and I'm on the Police Commission. Great. Thanks everyone and just for Susie's benefit the way and any members of the public the way that we've been running this is fairly informal so we tend to do first name basis unless someone says that they would prefer not to and yeah that's I guess kind of the only uniqueness of our committee. And with that I'd move us to item 3 and welcome Susie. Glad to have you on the Police Commission and as part of the Joint Committee. With that I'd move us to presentation and hand it over to Karis and our team. Thank you so much. I would like to share my screen if that's possible. I love that with any request for you to see just a tiny little forehead pop up. Okay. I think I'm able to do that now. Fantastic. A good day to you City of Burlington. It's been a while since I get to see all of you two dimensionally and I'm delighted to see some of you in person and you know it's interesting how we also have technical challenges when we're also in person. And so let's just embrace this moment because it's been quite a journey for partnering for this initiative. Today I'm joined by my esteemed colleagues Ella and David who have been faithfully plugging through and working alongside me to ensure that our team feels supported from the beginning to the end. And Ella and David I am so delighted that you will be presenting this with me and I cannot think of better colleagues. And also Ryan came in to support with public survey and Ryan has been a tremendous support. And so with that this is our presentation outline. I'm just going to give you a moment to look it through and we will bring this slide back up as a way for us presenters to pass on the mic so to speak. So before we get into dive into the survey analysis and synthesis and tabulation I just want to take a moment to pause and to just take a deep breath. I need it and just read out and to remind myself how fortunate it is that during the pandemic that I have the opportunity to continue serving the public that I love from all over the United States. And I thank the Joint Committee for selecting to lead the consults to facilitate this process. We started off with a kickoff meeting with the Joint Committee and then the Joint Committee provided us with a list of key stakeholders to engage and we hosted two workshops and we gather and synthesize information from those workshops and present it to the Joint Committee which also help us inform to ask good questions and ask relevant and useful questions as we continue to engage with the public with two town hall meetings. A great thanks to Skyler and Director Green who have been so supportive of outreach and engagement, engaging with ELL individuals as well as new Americans and we had two town halls and we also visited a few neighborhood planning association. A big thanks to the CEDO department there's my friend there too who did a good job with Zoom facilitation. In partnership with MIG to lead the launched public survey and Ryan will get into the details of it. The response rate was fabulous and then we took a deep breath two and a half weeks to gather and synthesize all the information that we collected and LAWIN will talk about the extensive work that it took and still taking. We also want to acknowledge all the people who were involved in the process. Ella and David are here all of these people in these tiles participated in one way or another. Karima for example drafted the public survey the first draft and in partnership with BG. Again our charge came out of Resolution 5.12 so I also want to acknowledge the public stat-fast advocacy for this resolution to pass and what it comes down to is to lead us goal in supporting the Joint Committee is to begin an inquiry into the question of how to build a healthy and safe community and what institutions the city needs to reach that goal. So we'll transition now into what we've all came here to hear about which is results from the survey. I want to say right off the bat that the efforts that Paris was just speaking about have really paid off for Burlington. It is always hard to get a sense of how successful we have been in our outreach overall but I will say that just by the numbers in sheer numbers particularly really great response here a little over 1700 respondents and I'm going to clarify a couple of numbers here on this graph. The orange line that you're seeing there is submitted responses and in order to hit that bar you have to have gotten through the entire survey and hit done. If you went through the entire survey and closed your window your responses were still saved and so somewhere in between 700 and 1700 and 54 and 815 is the number of people that really were involved throughout this survey. It's not always immediately clear and because many of these questions in fact all the questions in this survey were optional what we really look at is response to the individual questions and so you will see some different totals depending on the form and the content of those questions. These peaks just so you know the peaks on that prior graph really correspond to a really typical overall successful first launch and then as you see that falls off quickly the reminders that went out later on into the stakeholders really helped push this response and then that final peak was last chance kind of Facebook ad very low cost opportunity to really get that last push over the top on respondents so we're really excited with the outreach process there and just to confirm for folks the vast majority of respondents identified themselves as residents many on both of these questions it was choose all that apply which is why you will see that these percentages add up to more than 100% you'll see that throughout these responses and we're always happy to answer that question if you're confused about whether this was you know you only got to choose one or you could choose all that apply but in general questions that we're asking people to identify themselves we understand that people have multiple different hats and roles and identities that they wear in their day-to-day life large proportion of overwhelming proportion of residents large proportion of homeowners but I would say that the percentage of renters which is a harder population to hit in a lot of situations came back really positively as just kind of looking at representation and various different aspects of that we're going to dive into a lot of what these results mean and Eller and I are going to be tag-teaming and Keras will be providing some of the overall what does it all mean kind of perspective but we'll begin to individual result as we go and my understanding is that we will have opportunity for the committee to ask questions at the end of the serve or the end of the presentation absolutely so should I hit next friend yes okay so when we launched our survey this was the fire that we made and launched and in total we had about we had 19 questions that were related to public health and safety and asking the respondents how they feel about them and we also had 14 options for respondents to provide open-ended open and closed-ended questions where they type their feedbacks or anything they want to say and in total we are very very happy to say that we received over 1700 series of comments and that equal to about 238 pages of answers and we divided that among three coders three qualitative coders and I would say about each of the coders spent about 10 hours each to to qualitative coding analysis and of course interpretation still going on because there's a lot to process in that and last but not least we had 10 questions that were about me about the respondents and asking them just to get to know a little bit about who they are their demographics and yeah so the first section of the survey went into what their vision for a healthier and safer Burlington was and so right here you can see the graph of some of the responses we took deliberately highlighted the top three and you can see the first one that stands out is the Burlington PD training and there was actually some examples that were provided with that response and some of it was bias training de-escalation training mental health awareness training or first aid training so there's you can definitely see that the respondents they definitely feel that there's a need for training and that's one of their number one priorities is for more or better training for the Burlington Police Department and then next you're going to see easier access to services within the community and and then the healthier relationship between Burlington PD and the community so you can see what was the priority for the respondents when you look at these and um with the other section there's a lot that will be broken up that will be in the final report that will come out as some of that 238 pages that uh Ella was talking about and uh with the question that uh question four that David touched upon uh we limited to top three I don't know if any of the commissioners remember this conversation right we were thinking should we have five or should we have three and then we all decided uh with Ryan's insightful comment that you know three would be uh appropriate now question five asks question five have the longest uh entries when I say entries like the most number of pages and uh bless the coder's heart um and last says we are so happy to receive 238 pages I would also know we are so happy and we are also very exhausted because it is a lot of information and so question five had the most pages of response because we deliberately asked question five to be an open ended question we even included an opportunity for people to actually I'm picking up my phone to demonstrate like if they want to send a voice clip they could just um send in their answer through the voice clip so what we have found here is we did a sentiment analysis using atlas ti which is a qualitative analysis software and the strongest sentiments we see in the g stands for groundedness but means repetition right this sentiment more investment in these areas and I broke down what these areas are on the left hand side with with the starfish looking graph that is the strongest sentiment and then the second one um is again it correlates back to what david is saying right healthier interactions healthier relationship with the police and the third being the social determinants of health which I can refresh your memory it's about what makes a person healthy not just social emotionally physically as well as um you know the infrastructure and basic needs like housing help and so on and so forth but let's take a look at the most repeated investment mental health and behavioral health services so what we did was so let's say three themes and then we took number one and we disaggregated the data and mental health and behavioral health services surfaced as the strongest desire so one of the other things that's unique about this survey um beyond the topic and the response is the geographic nature of the response so we asked people in very simple ways to identify where they live and where they work and um what that allows us to do is to look at responses to other questions based on people's neighborhood based on where they spend their time and so a first look at that um kind of aggregating questions six and seven and the perception of safety this uh heat map on the left is moving is is showing the concentration of responses and in this case that concentration is really more of a diffusion of responses to people who generally felt safe in both day and night uh overall and on the next slide um we have kind of the inverse of that the same aggregation the same kind of heat map bring it up here um in this case what you're seeing is those red areas that we were seeing all over the map on the uh feeling safe show the highest concentration of points so those are the most indicate the most home points so people indicating where they live that also said that they feel safe and now in this slide that they feel unsafe so green does not mean that they feel safer it means that there were fewer concentrations of points there where people indicated generally feeling unsafe um either at night or during the day again so what we're seeing here is a much smaller number of respondents there were about 50 people about 50 home indications that um that came up in this feeling generally unsafe and they were concentrated in uh kind of two main areas um and uh this is just an example of how we can break this down and and it gives a um a little bit more insight into uh kind of where our respondents are that they are feeling um safe or unsafe or responding to other questions so moving through here the um the next set of uh pieces here I'm just going to explain what this is and then we'll give give it back over to Keras to explain the why and and what it means um one of the other geographic questions that we asked folks to respond to was where they would make investments either in the physical environment or in the kind of programmatic the behavioral environment and again much like with the open-ended responses here mental health emergencies mental health as a topic um was the top response across the board and what we saw with other um uh kind of in common in other responses was really uh some physical and safety and personal safety concerns from people who identified as residents and as we broke out the people who identified as business owners there were more concerns that were more specifically about um things like public urination vandalism things that are quality of life concerns so what reemerges is so again top response across the board when we say across the board we're talking about residents businesses and for a person like me if I was filling this out I would check both boxes right resident as well as a business owner so across the board mental health emergency is one of the uh investment area I don't know if the joint committee remembers this but in the survey we ask people to um remember Ryan we had different emoji different pins right for physical use this pin for programmatic uh social supports I'm holding out my little markers to to to show how we use different this visualization but in any case all come out as mental health emergency as the top response now when we break it down into residents residents are more likely as far as the uh physical improvement goes improvement for sidewalks speeding responding to vandalism and also addressing housing affordability okay those are the main housing affordability kind of like crosses both right house uh uh social as well as physical and for the business owners what we found is that they're more likely um wanting to uh invest in addressing public urination and defecation um challenges uh vandalism and also housing affordability so we do see differences as well as similarities in this and I'm going to call up on David to um get some insight into this question yeah so looking at some of this data you know we looked at some of the top responses and um at the very top you're going to see the mental health emergencies again and really what we're seeing is the data is also reflective of what we saw previously on what we talked about with burlington police department training one of the items was mental health training and you see that as one of the number one concerns coming out and what the other things that i'm seeing is that there's a lot of property crime that are concerns and there's a lot of concerns around the city but there isn't necessarily for the top issues around the city is not crimes against people and so what happens is a lot of times we have to look at this and see what is burlington police department responding to and can is there another way or another avenue to handle this because these aren't necessarily crimes against people uh some could say that or argue that speeding is a concern for safety around people but there are cities that have found other ways to look at that i don't know i mean sometimes some cities like it some don't but some cities have gone to traffic jams and decided that they didn't necessarily even want police departments having that one-on-one interaction with citizens because then you know you have that issue of bias so where there's other avenues that can take place to remove that so something to we'll talk about this in our slide for insights that we have garnered okay the next question asked about motive transportation and i'm going to hand it over to Ella yes so uh question nine motive transportation is surrounding like asking respondents um what motive transportation do they use to go to work go to school or um yeah just go around the city or wherever they need to go and we learned that over 61 percent other respondents have their own their vehicles to depend on and you can take a few seconds to take a look at this and followed by question nine we asked respondents to rank how safe do they feel using those motive transportation to go around and on a scale of nine uh on a scale of zero to ten our average is about four point three for both day and night so if someone were to um drive their own vehicle both day and night their average is about the same but if um let's say someone um is you their primary motive transportation is to walk their average for day will be higher and their average for night will be a lot lower because that's their response to you know uh their own well-being and their own safety so question 13 and i'm going off of memory is this me self-explanatory the the chart this donut on the left here and out of the people who have who responded yes this is the satisfaction level and so overall we're seeing um satisfied and extremely satisfied folks out of those who responded and then what we did is we also cross tabulated to understand among the people group especially the one of the demographic group um um there is a you know the people of color are about as satisfied as everyone else and uh we saw a slight uptick in the extremely unsatisfied response but i do want to caution um that the sample size the responded uh the response rate and the count for people of color is relatively low so there is um i'm less confident to make any decisive um or conclusive statement on that as far as renter versus uh owners we're seeing that renters were slightly less satisfied with the 911 calls than the home owners and we also see that um lower income respondents are also less satisfied with their 911 calls we also cross tabulated this data for English language learners and um the question that we asked is is English your you know primary spoken language at home again it's a very small our response rate um and we're finding that they are less likely to call 911 um it would be interesting to find out why um but from you know Talitha is a firm made of first generation immigrants most of us are and um both Ella and I live in a household where we have older generation and younger generation immigrants as well and we see that played out through our life experience lived experiences as well for us we become the cultural and linguistic broker between our parents and our grandparents generation but had we um and when I can't speak for Ella but have I not been in the life of my parents there's going to be a lot of um things that were not addressed just like as recently as last week my mom got a call from a fraudulent got a fraudulent call from a fake social security administrative officer right and she panicked and so I share that story to just say um that even through our my lived experience as a household member of ELL family I can see that now Ella did a tremendously wonderful job in helping us decipher what are the key reasons why people are satisfied um prompt response and also professionalism I'm going to pause for a while and have um the committee read direct quotation they're all stated in purple and if there is a spelling error and whatnot we just share it just the way it is key reasons for dissatisfaction came out of um respondents perception that the responders were inadequately trained to handle mental health crises and this is a significant um sentiment that we have observed and another dissatisfaction spamming out of uh perception that the responders were not adequately trained for domestic violence uh situation and the rest of them had to do with either delayed responses or late and when uh we are talking about we're not necessarily just talking about calling the police this is uh specifically about 911 calls I'm going to give a moment so you can read some of the quotations yes definitely that's me so just looking at um follow up the next question on 14 uh looking at um folks who were and were not um likely to call 911 and so overall uh the um graph here's a little bit uh it's it's sorted in order of the the response but um if you're noticing the smallest answer here is the extremely unlikely um but the the middling responses uh to likely and not likely were kind of the the mid mid perception uh we saw in our cross tabulation that people of color as a group were slightly more likely to have called 911 and uh that we also saw in that cross tabulation there's an uncertainty in the uh the folks who were um who declined to respond or did not reach the the point to provide race ethnicity uh were slightly more likely to call 911 than those identifying as as white it's a little bit of a confounding factor there and then that we ultimately saw um as as we said kind of combining up some of those results on the English language learner side uh while they were slightly less likely to call 911 the first place satisfaction was generally high uh for those who indicated that they did and moving on from there Eleanor I think you are up so for this part um we asked respondents who would they trust to assist them with emergency situation and um we have in the next slide a list of locally based and Vermont based organizations um we identify six here and I can confidently say that Howard Center and almost all six of them were repeated almost uh more than 15 times for sure but um Howard Center coming up in number one and um people saying mutual aid groups that really help them in their own community just gonna pause a moment so people can process so question 15 is two-part question one is the multiple choice and another one is for them to type in and when they were asked to type in this is what they typed in and Eli um tabulated the repetition and the written response is this you or me David I'm not sure but I can take it question 16 was about experiences with the barlington police department and so what we saw is that we had about a 73 percent response of people that have had some form of experience with the EPD and if we can go to the next slide and so basically what we did was we broke it down to whether it was a positive experience or negative experience we're not going to take all the information and put it into themes right now a lot of that's going to be in the report where there's a lot of uh data that will be available to the committee but we just wanted to right here just give you an oversight of what we did find and so we found that with those experiences about 283 responses had positive responses with BPD where 107 had negative and then we also found that we had 134 that were neutral where there was nothing really positive or negative within the remarks and then others had conflicted reviews where they had both something positive and negative and we kind of saw that earlier which somebody said I didn't like the amount of time that they took but then they had good customer service once they got there so you know that's a little bit of what we see in the conflictive view and so there is so much data it is you know if you want to extend your meeting then we can go all night but you know this information will be in the meeting and we just want to give you an oversight of where responses fell. Question 17. As it pertains to Burlington Police Department the current public input process in the form of comments suggestions or concerns is easy to understand and access so what we have here is just pulling out people who chose the two opposite so this is about 55% and so we have about 45% floating in between and out of that what we have also learned so the next question we asked after whether or not they find the current process accessible and understandable we follow up by asking what improvements would you like to suggest to the police department in regards to current public input process as you can see 194 repetition in terms of wanting the desire to see better outreach and engagement and I want to specify diversifying communication strategies so number one is 194 and then the next repetition is 56 that's quite the difference right you could even close to three times and so when we go into further into what what do people mean when they say diversify communication strategies I'm just going to have you take a look many folks are saying partner with residents and community organizations for public education and when we say public education as simple as this respondent saying four starters the department can inform everyone as to how we can give feet back at the first place a word to call for non 911 situations right basic I would even you know it may not be basic for others but just don't assume that everybody knows I think that's the message and timely communication and an important part of a good common system is being able to see what actions resulted and why people want to be informed how their comments were whether or not their comments were taken into consideration and there's a lot of comments about improving the existing communication channels like some of the links on the website doesn't work and so on and so forth and there's also a positive you know affirmation that some people give that they like that the police commissioner posts their meeting info on french french french porch forum and there's some suggestion about see fix click app that came up quite a few times and people say that make it easier not just to email but also to leave comments by phone given that there may be digital inequity with access to the internet another thing that people want to see more of is need to set up a reliable points of public dialogue and one person says that the department of public works and parks come to npa meetings but almost never a police again the desire for public forum and then once again commissioner posting their meeting on front porch forum but their minutes and agendas are hard to find um having walking patrols and have a politician go on a patrol with them especially the city's diversity officer and then the italicized texts are the paraphrase talitha team paraphrasing it coordinated communication between the chief and mayor and the city leaders and regularly scheduled public service announcement from the department the next sentiment that we saw which is only double double digit not oops i think it is by 59 repetition had to do with the power distribution right how or some might say reorganization restructuring of the department i'm going to pause and have you read the quotation now this is quite dense but um a lot of text and again i want to remind you that all of this information is public records and then the whole complete packet will be submitted with a bunch of appendices including 238 pages of texts um which is very very very important for for the city to receive your your residents and um you know community uh shared all these insights with you now question eight asks it's it's it's a two-part question one we ask is greater police accountability and transparency necessary for meaningful police reform um we only offer yes or no answer because we accompany it by a text box where people can just give their open-ended opinions right and so it's not forcing people to have binary choice mean like ryan was saying nobody is required to answer any of the questions right all the questions in the survey were optional but for those people who answered we also say here have at it why do you say what you say why did you say agree why did you say disagree and out of the disagree um out of the respondents who disagree with that statement what we found our three insights have come in some form of question some of they say some some of them say that they disagree with that statement because they don't they're they're confused about what police reform means and so what what that means to the community and to the decision maker is to step back and ask does the city have a shared understanding of what police reform means and I offered three quotations specifically to highlight the need for that the next who is responsible for what one of the respondents said the police should not be held accountable for solving or responding to all societal ills as we as we saw earlier in question eight some of the residents concerns it's worth asking the question who is responsible or who out to be responsible third insight that we gathered again not from people who are agreeing but also people who are disagreeing which is very important for me in my opinion we got to listen to the dissenting voice and understand their fear and concerns what we found is that there is a need to have a nuanced understanding of the residents push backs disagreeing to the notion of defunding the police does not equate to disagreeing to improving current policing practices one of the respondent notes with so much unrest and strong opinion about what isn't goal what isn't working it's clear more can be done to enhance transparency improve relationships and trust and allow for meaningful accountability at the same time I'm very resistant to polarizing slogans and voices saying quote defund the police because I do not think this recognizes the complexity quote there's a lot of transparency already we need politicians who understand psychology and behavior citizens need quality police not defunding again just highlighting to have differentiated understanding and not generalized understanding about pushback from both sides I hope someone has this slide because I'm losing my voice that's me so next we asked participants um if they experienced barriers to participating in the city committee involvement and what we found out is about 60 percent of respondents actually found experience some type of barriers and how they participate so if we go to the next slide we highlight some of the things that were barriers and so the first thing it's not something that's necessarily in anybody's control but they have their own capacity restraints and so it could be their own personal things going on or their family or what time they have and the other thing that goes along with that is their personal resources of their friends, families and neighbors but the second biggest thing that we pulled which was really interesting was that they were unfamiliar with the process and this will make more sense of why this is kind of baffling when we start looking at the demographics of who took this survey but 60 percent of the people that took the survey found barriers and the second biggest barrier was that they didn't know how to even be involved thank you for that prelude for the respondents so now we're gonna show the demographic info I see that in the comments section you know people ask how race and ethnicity question is being asked and so on and so forth so we will take all the questions after but here is some snippets of respondents info so our about respondents is in the last section of our essay and we've created pie charts for age, yearly household income, how long the respondents have lived in Burlington for and gender identities so I'll give you guys a minute to take a look at yourself for age for the first one I want to acknowledge that a lot of the respondents who responded to the survey are either between 35 and 44 which is about 20% and for 45 to 54 years old there was like the 17.9% so close to 18 but the lowest age group that we got here was 18 to 24 or close to that is also 25 to 34 so as we can see we didn't get a lot of responses for younger people or what they call the missing majority here and for household income yearly household income 31% of the respondents have income above 90, 90,000 or above yeah 90,000 or above so that is one thing to take in take in mind and 12% for 75 between 75 and 90 and then 50 to 75 we have about 15 as well so another very telling factor here and for gender identity we see that majority of respondents were female a good amount are also male and also are binary folks and people who prefer not to answer and last but not least the chart here is for how long people have lived in Burlington and we see that 90% for 20 to 30 years and 25% for 10 to 20 years so I would argue given that I've been studying area median income of Burlington and also having another public entity in Vermont I was a bit surprised by the how high the income level of all the respondents are and also you know just like Ella said 18 to 24 that is the age that we often miss right they have graduated and some of them haven't gone into college or maybe they have gone into college that's why we call that a missing majority because they are not caught in any system anymore they have passed a through 12 system but not necessarily in the higher ed or in the workforce so how do we capture that data about that young people another part Ella is this you as well yes this part continuing is asking the respondents to education level and we can see here 43% of respondents have either a master's degree or higher so it's a very very educated population who took the survey and yeah like if we count start counting from undergraduate and above we can say that it's majority right majority of them are either undergrad and above so very educated clear majority there's no contesting on that data all right new Americans come up a lot in our community engagement conversations therefore we also ask the question about whether English is a primary language at home and again we can see that very clear majority of respondents were primary primarily speaking. Now I'm going to pause a bit that was a lot to process and we're going to go into what we're calling sharing our insight and it's very important for me to share this that Talitha's insights the way we look at the lens in which we look through these findings and are are for lack of a better word recommendation recommended strategies it's shaped and informed by the belonging and other institute by Dr. John Powell's the framework is rooted in social justice and also racial equity and in which Dr. Powell asks the question what does it mean to belong it is not just about being seen or heard or being part of come on you're in the community but belonging is in a legitimate democracy it is that individuals have the ability to design and give meaning to structures and institutions that he or she or they are a part of you have that sense of agency you have a sense of pathway to contribute so we share that to also share that our insights are not to break any community but then that our hope is that whatever insights we share would further bridge and further bond within the community and then that we continue to tell our stories and narratives to do so but that our insights are pulled out of some of the very notable findings here one clearly the respondents have asked for the improvement of communication and diversification of community engagement and outreach methods I gave some well-appointed examples of what how that might look like and it is not to assume that BPD is not doing it yet it's just again reiteration of what the respondents are sharing with us partnering with community-based organizations for public education about who responds what timely communication response and follow-through the posture matters like how can the system players put out the posture that we are listening we are engaging what was done what wasn't done with the complaint or the feedback why and by whom improvement exists improvement of existing communication channels again I mentioned that already and then exploring the use of technology and David mentioned earlier about the benefits and also disadvantages of using traffic camera the you know what is that see click fix apps if the department already has all these mechanism in place then maybe it's also time to look into the effectiveness right measure and assess the effectiveness of each mechanism again proactively building relationship with diverse community who conveys matters right we've learned that from our town hall so going into npa association meetings going into alb you know our project manager Skyler would go in and have a conversation at their table not necessarily asking them to come to our table or maybe that the community the residents and the leaders need to build a new table that may look very different from the rest of the tables right and again another insight that we want to share is how can the city address these concerns with or without the police armed law enforcement officers these are the key things residents concerns sidewalks speeding vandalism housing affordability mental health emergencies how do we address these with with or without the police another part that I really want to make a note of is a lot mentioned earlier what 60% highly educated who whose primary language is English with pretty high income all of those factors combined are still saying we are unfamiliar how to be a part of public participation process that is telling so can you imagine if you you speak a language other than English how much more loss would you be knowing the participation as far as things go boy the blue chart the blue green this key takeaway bubble what does it mean to be a healthy community that's the thematic representation we shared with the joint committee after we did the stakeholder engagement in the beginning of the process and these four things emerged right and out of the four themes one two three more investment social determinants healthier interaction they show up again in this survey right maybe minus the social determinants of health but the BPD training and just doing some key takeaway comparisons here and then since more investment is one of the things that we talked about in question five right we ask open and a question to everybody when you envision healthy healthier and safer community what do you see and out of that more investment is what they saw more investment in these areas and mental health behavior health supportive services is repeated quite often that's another incredible insight so just like david is saying what does that mean how do we take that when it comes to police department training when it comes to community services when it comes to building healthier community community relationship among each other and also with the law enforcement with that I'm going to close again I also want to close by saying it's a great turnout but I'm probably one of the few consultants who will say I would not call this a success story so much as far as survey participation goes because there is still a group out there and that we could do a better job in reaching out and Ella's respondent demographic data showed you who might be othered in the process whether intentionally or intentionally and I do want to own that overall I am very thankful that our team is able to share this with you all thank you caris um any questions oh actually before we go to commissioners um if anybody in the public has a question or a comment or thoughts um feel free to raise your hand for that and not seeing anyone immediately but we can come back to you there's some listed under the q&a that have been typed in great um caris would you like these one by one or would you like sir I will just go through one by one but I also want to ask my team to just chime in any time and also losing my voice um question one um counselor is there a need to read aloud or yes please because I don't think folks who are doing this remotely on um actually I'm pulled up on my computer so I can't we can't see the questions right but I meant if anybody's watching on channel 17 they still can't so I think it'd be helpful for folks if we read the question and I'm happy to read the question if that helps caris and then thank you so the first one was regarding question eight um which was what would you say constitutes a mental health emergency under this choice if a respondent asked is that able to be disaggregated by race ethnicity gender socioeconomic status etc question um we we use the vocabularies that is shared to us in our engagement processes like the town hall npa meetings and in our conversation so and and and I don't go into the rabbit hole of um kind of defining mental health because that's not my um my specialty right so what I do is just listening to the people's stories and use the same vocabulary they use so we have a lot of um insights and stories shared in the open-ended text box about their experiences encounters with someone who appeared to be mentally unstable so we have a lot of those stories through the interaction engagement and also through public survey responses as far as how whether or not we could cross tab uh question eight to um socio demographic data let me just go quickly just a moment still sharing my screen you are not okay good so caris i can give a technical answer on the second part of this which is um uh those those points were all made in response to places that people would like to see investment it was clarifying uh the um the type of investment people would like to see in what location so they were asked first to put down a point and then give it a follow-up question to identify based on a list or their own open-ended description of what is important at that location and yes those can be broken down by all of the demographic questions that were asked uh later in the survey um it's uh it's a slightly different process just because of the the way the geographic data is collected but it's um it's totally possible and we did look at um some basic uh breakdowns just to look for uh kind of highlights and outstanding points and one of the places where we uh zeroed in on as as we presented here was the um the split between residents and business owners so just there there are there are certainly more cross tabulations possible and there are always almost more constant you know possible um slicing and dicing of this data but it is it is absolutely possible and I I want to share this as well at community engagements um facilitators we were taking notes on um things that um participants shared and when they are sharing their stories we don't um we use direct words that they use right uh we don't say hey ryan you use mental health emergency can you pause for a second and uh does that meet the you know uh standard book of psychologies uh definitely we don't do that right we just let the stories and narrative comes out so that's where I want to pause that um can we um go to question 10 and question 11 counselor yes for question 11 there was a question I'd like to get into some of those averages since such a disproportionate amount of vehicle owners is likely to spew the average could you briefly touch on that you needed oh yes I'm I'm just saying that I'm glad someone is asking this question because David and I have a discussion about this like how how can the average come out the same way but Ryan do you want to tackle this or what do you want me to know uh how can the average come out the same way regardless of mode of transportation um well the uh in general the responses track the same uh across the different um modes of transportation um just uh looking at data across that for at night and um and during the day I I did not run out those averages so I don't have that exact number but just um just in looking at the uh the kind of raw data broken down that way it is um it's it's following a it's following the same pattern and I want to um command the observation here because it is absolutely right right because 61 majority is driving their own car so uh it may be skewing the average that that is a very keen observation as I was telling uh David but let's say if my mode of communication is walking it would be interesting to compare and contrast right we didn't do compare and contrast I betcha there is a difference in day and night it was a person's primary mode of transportation is walking or even using public transit so maybe that is something we could do I'm going to make a note uh compare and contrast for different modes of transportation the person also wrote thank you for your answers by the way I know I have a lot of questions was that in on question 10 through 11 or would you yep um what I'm taking away from this comment is yes could be skewed therefore let's have a disaggregated understanding of how averages defer night and day for different modes of transportation okay that'll be a follow-up item right um question 14 what were the options given for identifying race and ethnicity excellent question so let me pull out I'm going to stop sharing my screen for a second and I've been wanting to do this anyway to remind people what this survey looks like I mean the survey was a mobile platform survey but this is the paper form okay are people able to see or is it too small I would keep swimming in swimming in about now yeah is that fine okay so at the very bottom right here we are and we also let people um I'm just going to quickly scroll down this page just in case other people have questioned or at least a reminder right because it's been a while and like Ryan said none of our questions were mandatory right Ryan correct and in most of these cases well in the identity type questions um many of them are choose all that apply so um functionality is a little different on paper I'm sorry I think we're ready for questions the next question question 16 why was this question on a like hard scale is supposed to a dummy question yes no what was your threshold determining something qualifies as an experience if not just above zero I can I was looking at that one Paris we want me to take it the uh in the online form of this um it was not actually asked as a zero through 10 question it was a slider with clearly labeled polls so we had in that question never or frequently as the polls um uh with never corresponding to zero and um frequently corresponding to 10 we used that same strategy for a variety of both user experience and kind of data reasons it allows for people to give a more natural range than than the yes no and to give a little bit of nuance in the in their own experience so people were asked to essentially place the slider on the on in the position that reflects their experience and so while the results come through in a very hard number form it's actually intended to be reflective of that gradient so in order to answer your question of what qualified as an experience never would have been zero and and it was clearly labeled on the on the far side and so all other answers were considered to be at least some uh some experience on that spectrum um but it is it is you know that that is relative to people's own experience and their own perception of it thanks ryan the next question is will you make a data set available for public use or just a report with appendices we'll need to check with the joint committee and also the project manager everything we do and this is the public's info but like i have mentioned earlier it is a lot 238 pages and you know 1700 plus and so and also data as many of you may know miss and can be a misinterpreted so the answer is yes this is all public record but in what format will it be shared i will have to take the directive um yeah so can we couch that yes and we'll try to answer that by the end of today i guess or at least figure out how we will answer it by the end of today um the next question is did you record whether respondents had any existing relationship with either the burlington city council and or the burlington police department no easy enough um it seems like a few of your respondents agreed with increased police accountability and transparency in the follow-up questions but indicated otherwise in the main questions how do you rectify this contradiction in your data analysis yes um so let me pull up the question um because i myself need i'm using myself that one was question 16 okay that one is question 18 and again it's a two-part question um um i think greater police accountability and transparency are necessary for meaningful police reform agree and disagree and then the next part is i chose the answer above because now the presentation slide that comes with it we looked into the no instead of the yes and it's a very hey you know what i'd be honest with you it was super um in engaging and exciting to read responses in this text box because some of them are very frustrated that uh surveyors us how we are giving a binary answer right a binary choice and so hey i admit that and i make that call uh the reason is i want people to further what would like right my hope was that people would further engage into having that kind of conversation and so what it shows is again i i pointed it in the uh the third bullet point um where is my screen share here the nuance understanding and that's how i am uh not necessarily reconciling but i am encouraging all of us to grapple with it because i even for people who come out and blatantly say no there is still a sense of longing that elements of accountability and transparency is still required even when they are resisting certain reforms or certain changes so i don't reconcile i'm just encouraging all of us to grapple with it um and then we're skipping to back to question eight because i asked a follow up question sorry i didn't catch that um when you were which was the first question that we had and they asked but if they asked what does this mean before placing a pen would they be provided definition i think i know question uh eight we also have a prescript ryan please correct me if i'm wrong that is the question in which we have a generated list that we included that is true um but it didn't have any definition so we did not we did not offer up any definitions of these terms but we did explain uh the point that you've made already which is that these were drawn from input from the public forums prior to this survey so it's um but they were still just the word choices not the um not any any further definition so on the paper form it looks like this but on the phone app there's a little pop-up bubble you can click and when you click the pop-up bubble this is what it shows up right and that's where people are pulling improvements and so on so forth but ryan is absolutely right we don't come out and say this is the common definition we use great i think that is it um from and they just said he answered that before it was asked sorry and thank you so much thank you sir i fear patience and diligence with my questions so with that i think that is it from the public again not seeing anyone's hand raised so i'll go to stephanie thank you all um for that great work and trying to organize massive amounts of information so i have several questions i'll start with the easier ones first um have you considered trying to use the data to you know sort of test certain hypotheses so for example um you know one might argue and one might hypothesize that higher income folks have different concerns than lower income folks and this may be in your report and not what you were able to provide today so forgive me if i'm jumping the gun so to speak um gotta find a new expression for that one um and so uh another one for example is people feeling safe um that to me is a very gendered question and so i'd be interested in how women respond compared to men i think there are some questions around policing that young people would have a very different response than older people so i just wonder if it would be possible to answer certain hypotheses um that that uh that come up in terms of how a person's status influences their experience and i'll stop there and i have a couple more well i was a little afraid when you raised your hand like oh my goodness economics professor what is she gonna ask um hey look i am so glad you asked and um cross tabulation right that that's what you're asking like versus this group versus this i'm gonna turn the table back i have gazillion hypotheses and ryan will be there to tell you stephanie how often i say ryan these are the cross tab please prioritize them if you don't have time let me know because but here's the thing carousel's hypotheses i'm here in washington state so i'm gonna turn the table at the joint committee that's all you know now but please limit your hypotheses right because you can go crazy with it and i will have to look at my capacity i might say give me three hypotheses that you all want to want us to look into okay for now we have quite a few cross tabs that ryan's already dabbling with i think that's a great response because we do you know i think some of us do know what's sort of circulating here in burlington and that's great and let me say that um i'll just answer the question now about making the data publicly available i think it's a good idea because my guess is that even after you've completed your work we might have some questions to ask of the data and it would be good to be able to do that so uh yeah i really like that and i think we could come up with some reasonable um you know hypotheses to test so if i could sorry if i could put one more thing in there about the cross tabulation piece um where we highlighted changes were really where we saw things that were different so um uh in in many cases we have looked at those cross tabs and they will be part of it it's already there and what we were seeing was not really anything different across those different um categories so uh that's not to say that we looked at every single possible permutation of that and then and as you said you're going to have the on the ground understanding of what is worthwhile to test uh but we will have you know already run out a number of those and and you'll be able to see those pretty quickly it might and and many of your questions uh you know we touched on at least on some questions so i think that's uh um that is also forthcoming so you know so i think that you know the general issue is that we i think many feel it's we're a polarized city right now with regard to policing and that different groups feel policed Stephanie freeze or just my computer not just you police department Stephanie we missed the tail end of your comment um if you want to put that in in the chat box maybe don't know what happened so i think so anyhow i think that we could i i'm sure some of us could really give you some thoughtful feedback on on what to focus on to answer some of the questions we have here so here's my harder question and don't worry about it just a you know data question so your sample is not representative and um so it doesn't fit the demographics of the city and so on and so forth no criticism of you this is always the case you know the census bureau spends billions to get it right and it's not a question of getting it right of reaching certain groups so my question would be have you considered providing unweighted data and weighted data so in other words for those who aren't familiar with this in this survey black respondents were three percent of the total but they are roughly seven percent of burlington's population right so one way to do is to put more weight on the black respondents that do respond so that the results are more representative of the demographics of the city and i know there are pros and cons to that but just uh wanted to um to ask you about that i'm so glad you asked because ask and you will receive um yeah we'll go from that because we don't come the amount of data not just the breadth the depth of it is what surprises me 238 pages that's crazy 1700 like Ella almost lost her arms last week just from like coding right and so let us know what would be helpful and useful we'll go from there and and one clarification I would put on that Stephanie I really appreciate that as well is that the nature of the sample here um by being self-selecting uh we're we're kind of so we're we're far enough outside of kind of bell curve statistics in terms of the the information here that I generally speaking don't um kind of advise my own clients to uh to kind of go down the road of waiting those responses just just because not because it's it's invalid but because it is um it is uh kind of putting a lot of representational pressure on the respondents who you know are there and I and I feel like we're um uh because of all of the intersections here and and I think you pointed out many of them you know the the income piece we've talked a lot about we're also at a high side of the income scale that if we're if we start uh representing the entire just for example purposes the entire black population uh you know as who responded here if we kind of blow that out to the the weighted um representation we may be really over representing a high income portion of that population or uh we're doing other other pieces of that and I'm not again I'm not saying no I'm saying let's let's make sure we're considering uh where we're at and and what what the data is that we have to work with and and I think that uh we can certainly respond in more depth when we uh when when we get kind of more specific requests there too do do mind if I pursue this a bit more with you and I hope my fellow committee members you know indulge me and I don't want to because um Ryan has a lot of people wanting to pursue that with him so um let me just say this that I think if if you're I so in the work that I have done and seen with regard to surveys often what is done is weighted and unweighted and I might suggest and like you don't need to take my suggestions at all but just a thought is you might try in some key areas to do a weighted and unweighted average because they may not be that different so um you know there's a lot of you know a point of different points of view on that but this is my concern this sample is heavily white and it is heavily wealthy and that is highly highly educated exactly and so um so it is I think it's so incumbent upon you when writing this up to make clear that this is not a representative sample and to find other ways to capture the different experiences of uh you know and I would I would pick a few I think age um income and I know the sample sizes on race are small and that makes it very hard I I leave that to your judgment although that is a big issue in this city although there are a lot of white folks with with um friends and family of color who are allies so you know that that's a little bit more obscure but I I think that it it is I actually I would worry given the skewness especially around education that this is somehow represented as you know Burlington's average view on various things and I do think you have enough data to disaggregate you can do you know college educated and above and and less than college educated that's large enough sample sizes to look at the differences you can look by gender and that's a really big issue in terms of public safety who's you know and um what it was the one income age yeah well anyhow you know I mean you know this stuff as well as I do so but I I do I I did worry about the I you know I do think we have to seek a way to make sure that the averages are not construed as actual averages of the city I think averages of the various subgroups is fine but not you know the city is all so my two cents thanks for listening to that great any other questions from other commissioners and or comments so I just got the notification of the q&a um so I am curious as to what other folks want to do I feel like to some extent I definitely digest information better when I read it and have access to it um so I'd love oh jibu sorry our new commissioner Susie has asked a couple questions I'm just going to give her my laptop so she can speak that's great thank you on the question about who do you reach out to for help I really would like to see that cross tab by race that's a real as a key one and I guess I'm also interested in you know what were the ruin numbers of respondents from communities of color can you please repeat that one more time what what what I'm looking for the sample the ruin numbers for the sample of people of color yes let me uh I've got that I just need to find the right uh the right point here because we had pulled um pulled this in a couple of different ways of looking and so we have um we had zero Alaska natives 17 First Nations American Indian Indigenous 20 Asian Asian Americans 22 Black or African Americans 21 Hispanic 12 Middle Eastern or North African one Pacific Islander uh 617 white European Americans 120 who actively preferred not to answer at this point and I will note that this question was answered including those prefer not to answers by 787 of the um overall response set which as I said falls somewhere in the between 1700 and 800 people depending on where in the survey you're at so I know that's a that's a complicated answer to what seemed like a simple simple question um but uh it's important to keep in mind that our cross tabulation is dependent on people answering both questions um so we we end up with a um you know a little bit of a missing set for the question that we're looking at as the core and a little bit of a missing set for the question that we are cross tabulating for so um so that's the uh that's the data and I'm happy to provide that um I mean that'll be part of our our backup as well so but I understand why it would be relevant to this conversation right now um we also did do a breakdown of the um uh who would you trust most to assist you if you needed emergency help question 15 um we did break that down both uh globally by all um people who identified as people of color and um so any uh and as as any non-white identification as well as white and then broke that out um by the individual classifications recognizing the limited numbers there and what we saw overall was um that uh the interestingly um the people the people identifying as people of color uh indicated that um police officers were more uh more likely to be people that they would trust to assist them in an emergency in comparison to the total set and to white and non-answers um and that uh their neighbors overall were slightly more well just kind of on average on that one sorry I'm I'm going off the fly here and then um looking at the um just looking at where it was lower oh the interesting one also people of color were slightly less likely to trust the emergency medical services and slightly less likely to trust uh social and mental health workers so um just just a quick summary of again a more complicated data set um I do want to spend a couple of minutes before we stop to discuss about communication pathway in which how the joint committee members can request for information uh because um I won't I won't I do not want to miss any um hypotheses that the joint committee might want to see at the same time just like the respondents you know capacity and time constraints is also what Talipa is uh grappling with and so June 30th is our uh project timeline and we are already writing um putting the content in and so I would like to um again uh mention Skylar Nash is our project manager and um chair high tower and uh vice chair commissioner Hart are um you know so let's if you have additional hypotheses make sure you discuss that with the committee and then come through Skylar and um that way we we can ensure that answers your question within the capacity and the you know time that we have left and along those lines if folks want to have a discussion now in terms of other things that they'd like to see or expectations for the report I think the other option is we come together again in a week I don't know Charis what your deadline is um and then the third option is is that folks and comments to myself Shireen and then we make the call in terms of what to pass on to Skylar is a final recommendation if there's any contract contradicting requests or information so those are the three options I'm happy to hear folks opinion starting with um Susie and then going to Stephanie my last question is I don't recall hearing anything about people with disabilities or accessibility did I miss that you did not we do ask that question at the demographic info again um you know I didn't put in every single there were 10 questions about respondents demographics Susie uh commissioner we only presented like six or seven so when you look at the full report all of that including what the survey was would be included in there and uh disability question if you are interested I could read it to you how we ask is that it's in question 24 do you have a condition or disability that influences learning working communication or living activities yes or no and then with the follow-up question if you prefer to self-describe any ability differences or conditions do so here with Stephanie I thought I would just weigh in on how we might proceed I think that it would be useful for us to have a 10 or 15 minute discussion right now about sort of the nature of the types of kind of more detailed responses we want given Burlington's context and then maybe you know for me I'd like to go through the survey again and like say you know on question eight do a cross tab on this in question nine and so on and so forth and I can easily do that at email it but I just wonder if it wouldn't be beneficial for us to just kind of say out loud what you know what some of the issues have been around the you know the very different points of you in policing and see if we can um you know give uh Talitha therefore some guidance on on where to dig a little bit more deeply and if you don't mind I will just start that by saying that you know one of the problems in any kind of hierarchical unequal society including in Burlington is that dominant voices get heard and policy tends to meet the needs of people who are powerful and uh have means and I think you know it didn't come through in this survey but certainly in other discussions in Burlington what I hear is that people do care about equity and a lot of the discussion around public safety is that it it current it's current you know the status quo meets some people's needs and of the dominant group but not necessarily others and so what I would want from this survey is something that tells us about that like what is happening to people that are not members of the dominant group right whether that's by race class or gender how how does their experience of public safety differ from the majority empowered well-heeled Burlingtonians so we can think of any number of of crossfabs to do I just put in the chat here one thing to do would be interesting to look at renters versus homeowners that actually captures race it captures gender right a lot more single moms are going to be renters than they are homeowners for example so it it works on a number of trajectories but I think um you know also we would I think income and education are pretty good proxies for uh for a lot of things that we care about so that's my concern is that the report place in the the center of the report and the discussion that there are various perspectives based on people's lived lived circumstances and how do they differ so group averages in some ways in this report are important but I think really we want to understand do various groups have different experiences so that's my two cents I I have heard you loud and cleared and we have infused some of the cross tabs that you know hey I was a renter longer than a homeowner right I mentioned about my story with being an ELL in an ELL family and so all of these things and I hope you heard the closing that I gave that I'm not calling this a success story right and so what what all that is to say um yes uh we want to respond in a way that would be useful and yes thank you for requesting for the weighted response because you know my practice in Talitha is that I wait until the client asks for their weighted response because just like Ryan is saying it's a disputed matter out there but if my client asks who am I to refuse that and number two um this is the voices of people who have spoken from the community whether or not they are the dominant loud voice or whatnot but this is what we have right even the 24 voice 24 response from the black community that's what I'm not 24 I'm sorry 96 that's what we've got and even that one response from a pacific islander respondent guess what that's what we've got and so how can I um you know how can we better serve so it's actually useful for present day issues um thanks sorry I have actually more of that because I'm trying to go back through and look at the presentation and just uh like for ease of this might be uploaded as a pdf and so a lot of your slides have animations that then cover the text on the previous um which will make it really hard for folks to see the original um that's a very useful comment I cheated by putting animation to consolidate the slides but when I submit we'll make sure that they are uh stacked up against each other did other folks have comments on a line the line of I think Stephanie that was an excellent suggestion so if people have thoughts on context that they want to share now um and then we'll go from there shabu thank you um I don't really have anything to add but I just kind of wanted to second a lot of what Stephanie said just there the same thing with me great and then I have a question of which I guess is to what extent you all have been like collaborating with and talking to cna we have been introduced once okay so you haven't had a follow-up so they haven't seen this either I'm um I I found out after um that again it's it's don't quote me on this but they may have participated in some uh one or two of the town halls but I'm not sure other thoughts or questions or comments from other commissioners okay then given that do people prefer meeting again to get some of this discussion and direction or would you rather do this over email because it is the same amount of work for me regardless so I don't have a problem my understanding is to let that has a pretty short timeline right June 30th so if we met in a week it would be a little late I can't imagine Caris I don't know if you have any thoughts on what would be the latest for you to get feedback from us that could be incorporated yeah I would like um you know I would like to have in our industry is called request of information right RFI and so I would like the RFI to be printed and um no later than you know again I'm pulling I have to discuss with my team first but it's always good to give 72 hours turnaround time for RFIs and I also want to point out that we are at the thin end of the budget and so um those are the things that I like to have a discussion during our project team meeting which we meet we will be meeting bright and early on Monday at 7 a.m my time so 10 a.m your time that's an open meeting and so um my project manager I don't see him in the panelists but I don't see him having a problem I'm happy to share that uh invite um maybe that that would be a good reconnecting time right then maybe I will say if folks have any thing that they want to see get it to me and Cherine by Sunday morning so that we can pull it together by Sunday evening and by we I mean myself Cherine and just not while I'm telling you um and so that we can get it back to Karris and Skyler by Monday morning go ahead Cherine so if Stephanie for example wanted to attend Monday morning I don't think we're going to have an issue with a quorum of our members but Stephanie I think we could we could have someone from the commission uh whether it's you me I'm going to say I would ask you to be that person um if you had time to attend on Monday morning that meeting if we had follow-up just in case you wanted to engage in dialogue but that's just a thought Stephanie we can talk about it later just uh just to say that I I actually would be happy to join and I think it would depend upon what the questions are that come in if they're really straightforward I might not be needed but if you know it helped to verbally explain I'd be happy to join in okay so let's just make a call on it um Sunday night perhaps or whatever is needed right Mila uh just a quick question are we going to I would love to have like the the raw data to look at are we going to have that opportunity and then based on viewing it more in depth sending over questions or we have to go on the um what we've just reviewed in the meeting so um I have I will be sharing all the um the slides and then I have um forwarded uh I don't know Ryan knows this and Shirin and Zara Zara I don't know if you two have looked at it all the spreadsheets with you know the workbook that has 12 tabs right and um so again I am willing to share I mean this is public info but I will caution you with nine people looking at the data with an expert in this um it's still very overwhelming so what I'm trying to say is just why don't you um you know if possible Stephanie I wouldn't even wait until Monday if you all can just share a document say this is what the Joint Committee is wanting Talitha to cross tab limited to you know the the most pressing concerns and then have the have the um written request in before Monday so Monday when we sit down I can tell you all saying hey Talitha has five hour left of the budget how would you want to best spend this five hours right to be quite honest with you Joint Committee really needs to start thinking about I'm just gonna say what is what is the saying the most bang for the buck yeah yeah and just to clarify on that we cannot have a shared document offline that is shared with the whole committee um I think Stephanie then Shereen Shereen why don't you go first and then I'll pipe in I'm just wondering about front final products are we having are we trying to meet on the 30th or are we just expecting a report um and forgive me if this is already been discussed but the way I have because this this is important and like I acknowledged in the beginning of my presentation that the community has done a lot of work and and I've heard that it has been like three or four years since resolution 5.1 to its past and so it I find that it's my personally it's my social responsibility to come back and present that final product I'm not sure if the project has the budget to bring the whole team back but out of my time I'm willing to come back once the report has been submitted I may not stay for two hours I'll tell you that so um I have a question and that is that in order for me to generate some questions it would be helpful to have the survey itself and I uh if you could just email it again God only knows where I filed it um I will send it to Chantel okay I say earlier for Stephanie to send it is to send it through the committee chair and the vice chair and Skyler copy all three of them um so at the by by tomorrow Chantel already has the link but just like counselors or I said I will send a PDF copy of our presentation and then also the print copy of the survey with a caveat and Ryan would kick me if I don't say this remember the survey was a mobile based survey so it looks different just just bear that in mind and I also want to note this though uh we offered Skyler uh offered to open I think about 15 days um in which anybody can contact Skyler to pick up a paper survey um much to my dismay nobody contacted and number two in the survey we also offered language assistance uh some of you may not know Talitha has nine staff members who speak 11 languages collectively nobody called here so um those are some things that I want to mention. So if I could follow up and so this is actually a question to all of my fellow committee members uh get so I'm just gonna be the professor for a moment you may think you don't know how to generate hypotheses or questions but I would just encourage you all just to think about the debates that we've had in the last year and a half and and come up with a question like you know how does this group think compared to this group on this topic something you're curious about so it really is not overwhelming it's really comes from our public discussions and debates in the city and I think I can come up with some ideas but I know each and every one of you has been part of discussions that probably have led to questions that we would like answers to so I really encourage you not to hesitate or be embarrassed or think you don't know how to do it just kind of come up with your questions and then you know Shareen and Sarai can put them together and we can see what we can get out of it but I think you all have questions that are valuable thanks for saying that Stephanie um any other final thoughts and care is just to make sure on the and maybe this is a question for Chantel as well if Chantel do you know if you can just post the link to the presentation in the meeting materials and if that'll suffice in terms of getting it up you know tonight on board docs or tomorrow whenever it works for you I can post it to board docs or I can send it out in an email whatever you guys prefer Chantel would you uh confirm with me via email that it is view only I did just send the view only link but I want to make sure I cannot edit but what I have so perfect then yes great yes please and um I did not look at the the excel sheet but I think post is that okay to post the board docs data-wise like yeah that I want to add this is not a represented state right the concern I have and so and I also want it to be a protective view because data can be used to divide and manipulate so what the document I send is not a protective view okay so uh Chantel why don't I do this I will send you a PowerPoint copy not a link a download at PowerPoint along with the survey questions the PDF copy and then a protective view of the excel sheet and that would suffice uh commissioner grants request for raw data with lots and lots of things okay but in the actual report folks I am whether you want to read it or not a lot earlier said oh when we were writing this essay like no this not an essay this is a novel I will also include the novel of 238 pages okay but for posting uh just to go back Chantel will you please give me a moment great and then we have a deadline for everyone else of getting something to me and Shereen by Sunday noon and we'll plan on deciding by Monday morning what that means for Shereen, Stephanie and anybody else who wants to join and I and along the last question of the next meeting do folks want to slash have the capacity to meet on the 30th so same time next week that works for me would the purpose of that Zariah be to hear um Harris kind of just talk about the report one more time or do you think and let me just put out a question too do you think it's useful to have a meeting after the report is done and for us to collectively talk about it and think about how we might talk about it at NPAs or whatever else just kind of wrap our heads around it its main messages and so forth I'm hearing a suggestion that we wait and don't meet on the 30th and wait till we've actually read the report and then have more of a digesting meeting and like I said even after June 30th it's done I Kerosene can come back to do the debriefing with the joint committee that's part of the customer service package did you have a opinion I just see mobs moving and and the in the in person but I don't know everybody's on mute okay see thumbs up three thumbs up great okay great then I think we will wait to schedule our meeting unless folks want to get something on the calendar um doodle participation is always a little bit lagging um so I wonder if I could propose Wednesday the 14th can it live yes I realize I might I might not be available that day I will send out a doodle poll and if I'm not available then tentatively we'll do the 14th and I may just miss it okay great I just yeah so doodle poll include me anyway it's past June 30th but please include me and I will work around the joint committee calendar it's harder to have all of you in one spot hey just a note in August I will be out in Burlington and I hope to see some of you um yeah it's unfortunate that this whole process you know hey that's another thing given the constraints of the pandemic and everything I want to say congratulations to the joint committee for hanging in there with us and supporting us throughout the process so thank you caris and thanks thank you for your work for being here um in terms of next meeting not to put you on a spot taisha but if you would be willing to give us just a quick update on where cna is I have not been joining the bi-weekly meetings and great thank you shanta and if you were not ready to give an update this is not a demand but hi hello hello yes okay so cna um the update is is that we've extended their deadline to September 30th uh they are they got some data from the police department and they have completed their interviews so they are working on um disaggregating the data and uh waiting for they report from caris and they're going to utilize some portions of that as well to just make it a holistic approach but they will not be done with their work until um they asked until august 30th but we extended it until september 30th just to give them a little bit more time great thanks that's why i'm sorry succumb to shuna grant why such a big delay uh the delay was because we started connolly um with their contract um because we had a little contract signing issue um and then the uh bpd took about six weeks to get them any data i believe they have all of it now i have to double check that but there was a delay with the bpd getting data over to cna mm okay thank you no problem any other questions about cna bpd anything okay so that's what we have as soon as we have a more substantial type of um update i will definitely bring that back here uh for the group to explore and ask cna to come as well great thank you i appreciate you coming on and giving us an update on that um with that um i just want to flag that there were a few things that we postponed waiting until the contracts are done and that was the i don't remember the term for it right now equitable sharing um discussion and i think that was it so um can continue to hold that on the next agenda since i think we will have a lot to review with carus but i just wanted to flag that as something that we had to postponed chair high tower is there a specific day that do you want me to ask cna to come sooner than later to uh discuss what they have so far with the with the commission um i think it would be good to have them come to the next meeting just to get an update um especially now that they have a little bit more time i think just to pull out something before september would be ideal okay anything else or otherwise i would entertain a motion to adjourn sharing and i'll second it just a motion to adjourn move by commissioner heart seconded by commissioner gommash any discussion then all those in favor please say aye any opposed that passes unanimously and deafening i think you just raised your hand to vote maybe or maybe it's old sorry no i did i just raised my and to vote yes okay great and thank you karen for joining sorry that we missed you at the beginning um i just want to make sure sorry had to raise up 89 to to get on the phone my cell coverage just wasn't really great so i apologize for missing the first part no worries meeting adjourned at 742 thank you so much everyone thank you shantel for all your work good night everyone take care thank you good night