 Local recordings, I think we are live, aren't we? I think we're live. Well, hi, y'all. This says we are on my side. If you can see us and hear us, say the word. The word. Well, I can, but I'm connected to you. Says Zoe. All right, yep. We's here, we's here. Eileen, I like your all lower caps for your name. It's very social. You know, I was real focused on my audio, but then I thought, you know, it's a style. Let's just go with it. It is a style there. I've done it too. It's probably a style. In fact, I, when I. I'm there with you. Like, you know, like my handle, Sarah Lane, when I, when I tell people like, oh, here's my handle on those things, like I just, you know, it's all lowercase, all one word, Sarah Lane. Yeah. Sometimes I'm just lazy and I don't want to like use the pinky on the shift, so, you know. I also feel like if I know somebody well enough to be like, you know, I know how to capitalize things. I'm just not doing that right now. There are certain times I'm applying for a job, but you know, I would capitalize. Yes. There are certain times that certainly call for it almost, yeah, required. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Jason Howells here, everybody. Hi everybody. Yeah. Hello everybody. A quick reminder, I will be putting the break in the show notes once the time comes in our private chat in the show notes on the dock. Got it. Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. I get that every single time. Oh, do you? Okay, because I had a 256 gigs available. Yeah, that's what I'm wondering because I have tons of space. I just double checked on my computer. There's probably some sort of weird permissions thing, you know what I mean? That's like not actually sending a stream yard, the actual information. I don't know what it is, but I've gotten it every single time. It's a stream yard thing. Yeah, it's a stream yard thing because what happened was because I always ask Amos to get the local recordings because I like to for social cuts and stuff. Although last week I did run it. This made it. It said you ran out of space. So like I my local recording stopped halfway through, which it was fine. I was able to kind of deal with the main show. The main show is most important and and able to, you know, mess with the edit for the show. And it's just for social cuts, you know, it's not it's not so dependent on like the main show for the audio recording and everything, but it was just kind of a bummer. I was like, well, how do I fix this? And then and then when I looked in stream yard, it said I had plenty of space. So I was very confused. Yes. Streaming has been in the off week or in the off between shows, I'll do some research and see if I can come up with a solution before next week in case it does happen again this week. Yeah, it doesn't affect the major can do weird things. I mean, I have for some time now been getting a you recording error, uploading recordings, recording error, you know, to the point where like I used to be like during DTNS, I'm like, oh, Joe, I don't know what's going on. And he's like, no, it's fine. Just ignore it. And I'm like, I will. But hmm. Yeah. OK. Yeah. No, I have plenty of space on my computer. So I don't know. And I cloud too. I've been deleting stuff. So what are you doing? All right. You're fine. You know, I had a, you know, we can save it for the show. This is actually an interesting conversation of like, you know, like, where is all the, you know, storage being taken from? At least for me, I have been digging into that long enough to be like, oh, interesting messages. I know, right. And like, let me delete all the like attachments that friends are, you know, putting, you know, my sister, you know, all the like totally, you know, my nieces. And I'm like, well, I have them on I photos. Now, why do I still have them on my messages? So let me just clear that. And right. Yeah. And if you. Yeah. Mm hmm. Yeah. Backing up all this stuff used to be so simple because I had less stuff and less machines and now I've like had, you know, half dozen machines over the years and every time I get a new machine is like, OK, well, I'll take whatever's over here in all these folders and put them in a folder on this new one named that machine. And now I've just got like, you know, there's no organization other than that. It's just like random stuff in this folder from that machine, random stuff in the edit. Yeah, I know. You know what we need? We need AI to help us clear all this stuff up. Well, maybe you can help clear that up for us on the main show. Because Eileen and I clearly have no idea what's going on. So neither do I. Willie Scott called us vision. I don't know if you meant to say visionaries or just visionaries. I like both visionaries, visionaries, visionaries, visionaries. I like visionaries. Apple visionaries, visionaries, visionaries. Mm hmm. Yeah, it's like a fancy kind of mustard. Fancy. A visionary fancy. All right. I think I think I'm I'm I'm pumped. Let's do this. Amos hit it. Well, hello, everybody. This is Apple vision show episode six, seven, seven. We've been doing it so long. I don't even know what day it is anymore. I'm already celebrating. Sarah Eileen Rivera. Well, hello, Sarah Lane. Welcome to our episode seven. I love it. And I love to celebrate all the emojis that the audio listeners can't see, but that's okay. There are many, many balloons and I lean Rivera's studio right now and I am very jealous because balloons are fun. Unless you have a fear of balloons, which some people do. I have learned this weird. Okay. Yeah, that's you. Yeah, you know, there's a fear of everything, right? There's a fear of everything. We are not afraid though of Jason Howell who is joining us our second guest ever. Hello, Jason Howell. Really good to see you and good to see you when I'm not feeling sick, which two weeks ago I was supposed to come on and I ended up feeling really not good the morning of. So I had to cancel. I'm really sorry about that, but I'm happy to be here today. Well, we are so happy to have you. We're glad you're feeling better and all good. You know, life happens. It happens. Even to podcasters. We're human too. Do you remember? Okay. This is so non sequitur and I'm getting to this really early, but there was remember Martha Quinn, the empty house. Oh, yeah. Jane. Oh, yeah. She used to do like Noxima or Neutrogena like, you know, skin care commercials where she's like, you know, zits happen even to Martha Quinn. Like that was the commercial where I remember being like, you know, I mean, I'm quite a bit younger than you and I have a problem with that. So I'm going to buy your product. It was effective. Yeah, it was. Yeah. Oh, I tried all of them. Strydex pads. Yeah. You know, I mean, you're going through puberty. You're like, whatever helps. Whatever helps. Yeah. I would literally kill my layer of skin just to, you know, yeah, maybe he'll be a VJ one day. Yes. That's that's like you're using the resume, you know, checkbox. It has to be there. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, in a way, we sort of achieved that goal or it was my goal. When I was a child. This is VJ ask. It is podcasting is, you know, it gives a lot of us a voice that we might not have had otherwise. So well, I mean, if if if MTV VJs were people who were there to facilitate the delivery of music videos and to, you know, talk about the videos themselves and everything, we help facilitate the delivery of tech news, you know, from the various sources. So the sources that we're reading that we'll talk about today are like music videos is essentially what I'm saying. They're like, oh, hello. Tie it together. Yeah, I know. It's almost like you've been doing this for a while. Jason Howell. Now listen, Jason Howell, Eileen and I know you. We love you. We've worked with you in the past. You are part of Android Faithful, which is a, you know, a DTNS umbrella show. But tell us what you're doing with AI these days. Well, somewhere along the lines. Well, actually probably right about the point that all about Android was, was canceled to it. I started thinking, what are some other things that I'm interested in? And, you know, I mean, I don't know if you've heard this or not, but AI is kind of like a big deal right now. Yeah, no, haven't for me personally. It was like, you know, what we're seeing from this like modern kind of moment in artificial intelligence. It's like generative thing has the potential to be really creative and I'm a creative person. So when I see what, when I saw initially what some of these systems were able to do and let me tell you, there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of people that feel strongly that it's, that it should be able to do it versus not should be able to do it. That's a whole other story. But when I saw what it was capable of doing now and so seemingly easily, it got my kind of mind moving in a million different directions as far as like, okay, well, what is the potential of this as we go forward? So I've been working on a podcast called AI Inside with Jeff Jarvis, who a lot of people here probably have heard of Jeff through Twitter and this week in Google and so many millions of other things that he keeps himself busy with. So I'm super grateful to have him. And we just talk about, you know, what's going on in AI every week, every Wednesday. And sometimes we bring on some guests to talk about what they know. And yeah, it's really, honestly, it's been really a selfish project for me to a degree because it's been like, how can I learn more about AI? I know, I'll start a podcast about it and that's what we're doing. Well, you know, that's, I think that's, especially when it comes to emerging technology, not every podcast is going to be about, you know, what we talk about, but this is definitely one of those shows. Eileen and I always, you know, are careful to say to people, we call it Apple Vision Show, which sounds like Apple Vision Pro because we love Ryan, but, you know, the Apple Vision Pro is just one part of the entire Apple ecosystem that we try to touch on every week, depending on, you know, what the news is, you know, what we've been fiddling around with, what we've learned, what other people can teach us. So, you know, again, we're all in this together and we're so glad to have you, Jason. Yeah, thank you. It's good to be here. You know, like a lot of what I've done in the past has been Android and AI, you know, most recent months. So, I rarely get an opportunity to spend kind of quality time with Apple news and stuff. So, I really appreciate the invite because there's a lot of crossover today. And crossover with Android Faithful as well. So, our sister show and... Indeed, indeed. You know, just going down to the basics of, I don't know, if you want to go, you know, Apple versus Google, you know, who's, you know, going to win in the race to be like the coolest company ever. Interesting news as of our recording today. These are sources from Bloomberg. This is Mark Gurman. He is notoriously a very... has very good sources for Apple news. But those sources tell Gurman that Apple and Google are in active talks to potentially use Gemini to power some new iPhone features starting at some point this year. Not necessarily on-device features because Apple is apparently still very invested in Siri or whatever Siri is going to be at some point. But cloud features powered by Gemini. Kind of crazy. Got a lot of buzz today. What do we all think about that? Well, yeah, this is interesting because when I think about Apple and AI, let's say their AI strategy or whatever, I think there's not a whole lot to go off of because Apple has done with AI, it seems, what it's really good at doing and has proven to do in a lot of other instances, which is it doesn't move immediately on these things. But it does eventually, like it would be really surprising if Apple didn't have something like this at some point, right? But the fact that Apple's not there with this going full board quite yet, it's easy to look at Apple and be like, oh, well, why are they so behind? Blah, blah, blah. But this is just Apple kind of playing the field a little bit and trying to take its time on this quickly emerging technology, this quickly emerging kind of, you're going to see this all over the place. You already are in the world of Android. You're seeing a lot of these like integrations of AI into the OS. And, you know, how can we take this AI system and integrate it into this device that we're using on a daily basis? Apple not quite there yet, but I don't think it's because they've been sleeping on it. I think they're just really careful about the partners that they choose and the features that they're going to, you know, that are going to happen and come out of a partnership like this. So I do think it's interesting that Apple is, you know, they're talking with Google about the Gemini. They're also, it sounds like, according to this report, in some sort of open discussion with open AI, which is arguably the, I'd say, the most buzz-generating player of the last year. Right. It would be chat GPT, I guess, if it wasn't Gemini. Yeah, if that was... I mean, yeah, this is again, these are in extended talks type rumors where it's like, you know... Apple's talking about everything, by the way, behind the scenes that we don't even know about. You know, they don't all happen. Exactly. Originally, we were going to have you on a couple of weeks when the car project was shut down and we had heard that they were going to move those resources or a lot of the resources over to AI. But this is even more timelier. You know, news, it's almost like, oh no, the universe is saying, let's have Jason on a couple of weeks later. It's going to be bigger, more important to talk about. And now the memes are online and there's a 2017 photo that people are bringing back up of Tim Cook and Sundar having dinner at Cheesecake Factory and they're like doing the memes. So it's an old photo that I saw and I was like, wait, is this real? I'm like realizing it's this old... Is it the Cheesecake Factory? I did not know that detail. Apparently. I mean, first of all, I love the Cheesecake Factory. You know, you give me a menu with 200 pages. I like your restaurants, you know? I am never going to say an ill word. But I mean, if you... Okay, so let's just say, and again, these are rumors. Apple, at the time of our recording, things change quickly around these parts, but Apple and Google getting together to use Google's Gemini AI technology. People would say, oh, this just proves that Apple just... They just couldn't catch up. Apple may have not even bothered to catch up. I think Apple, you know, according to Tim Cook, Apple has been working on all sorts of AI behind the scenes and I believe that's absolutely true. It's Apple, after all. But if it makes more sense to partner with a company that serves Apple consumers, well, Apple doesn't care. They don't care. They don't need to have like, you know, we're better than Gemini and here's our thing. You know, it kind of reminds me of like Apple Maps versus Google Maps back in the day. We have pitted these two companies against each other, you know, Safari versus Chrome. I mean, the list goes on and I think it's... I would welcome more of a partnership going forward. I really would. Can we just be okay with a Kumbaya moment for both companies? Can we be okay with that? No, the EU says you cannot be okay with this because of anti-competitive behavior. I think that's also going to be an interesting avenue here which is, you know, the EU's already cracking down big time on big tech and of course here in the U.S., you know, there's a lot of threatenings happening there as well and I'm sure time will tell as far as what some of those changes are going to be here and if we go from the example that the EU is setting forward, there's going to be a lot of reason for companies like Apple and Google to really change the kind of way they're used to doing things. But you've got, you know, the two of these companies working together on Search, that was too big for the EU and possibly the U.S. And now you've got them working together. It's kind of like a perfect storm working together on this new kind of proliferation of AI that by many people is seen as like a major gobbler of literally all things online. And I think you just have a perfect storm of a lot more regulatory attention that neither company probably wants, but maybe they feel like they know enough about the relationship to be able to navigate through those waters, I don't know. Right. In our chat, W. Scott Eswan said, Apple is always late to the game. Oculus around for literally over a decade before the Vision Pro came out true. I, again, going back to I just don't think Apple cares. Apple wants to be, you know, premium product. They don't need to be first. Yes, they have reinvented the wheel here and there. The iPhone, great example of that, you know, where, you know, for a long time. And I think, you know, where I think we're past the point where other companies are copying Apple like the smartphone industry is often running. And there are a lot of things that other companies do that Apple doesn't. And Jason, I would love to pick your brain on some of that while we have you on the show. But yeah, I don't think Apple cares about being first in the AI game as long as whatever. Let's just say that the Apple and Google Gemini, you know, Kumbaya thing, handshake thing goes forward. And it sounds like, you know, that's some cloud stuff. Does that make car play better for me? If so, I'm in. I do not care. I do not care if you were first or last, but just let's make car play better. Yeah, at the end of the day, it's about the consumers. And hopefully I know that they're both businesses and they both need to make money and want to make money. And I'm sure they're both competitive. There's all of those things that, you know, a company is about and the bottom line is making the money, right? But they are providing resources for the consumer. And that's what the show is about. It's like, how is this going to affect, how is this news going to affect the end user? And to your point, Sarah, like make this easier for us. Make things talk to each other easier for us. Make our lives easier. That is really the point of all of this, even though it could go astray at any point in time. It is really like, how do we, how do I not have to like think about the recipe for, can I just say it? And it happens, I don't have to look at like 5,000 choices and please give me the thing that you know that I like because I've asked for it numerous times and you've learned what I like, right? Those are things that, that at the end of the day will make us all like breathe a little bit more, hopefully. Now, again, there's caveats to everything. There's things that can go wayward and, you know, nefarious ways of using AI. But at the end of the day, again, I just feel like the point of it all is for us and to use things in a way that progresses our society for the better. That is me with rose-colored glasses going, you know, but it could be all great, but I know very well that there's stuff behind the scenes that could make it, you know, negative as well. So, hopefully- Yeah, you know, there's a lot of talk about, and I'm not just talking about Siri, but Amazon's Assistant, which is what I use at home. I don't use a home kit for, I don't really have a good reason. I just kind of set it up with Amazon some time ago and, you know, my smart lights and a lot of my routines are just, you know, they're working on that system. But I could start from scratch and get basically the same result if I went with Apple's models. And it's funny, whenever somebody comes over, for example, my mom has been visiting and she's well aware of what I do for a living and, you know, knows that I like nerdy things and I like to go down in gravel holes. But, you know, she's never been to this apartment that I live in right now. You know, I was like, oh, so here's how you talk to the lights. Okay, so if you're in your living room, this is what you say. If you're in the bedroom, this is what you say. If you like that light, but you want it to be like kind of different, this is how you tell it to, you know, and she's like, God, you know? But it's like, and if you, yeah, the syntax is, it's not rocket science, but it's not natural language either. Yeah. And it's more natural language now than it was, you know, a handful of years ago or whatever, when this stuff was starting, they did, they did improve it over time for it to get a little bit smarter. But then in the last couple of years, what we've seen, I think has gotten a lot more people's imaginations going with where we're headed. And I think I totally agree with what you were saying, Eileen. I think at the end of the day, I've been looking at 2024 as the year that the year of AI on the smartphone and why is that because a lot of the promises that I think these companies wanted to deliver on with this idea of AI five, even 10 years ago, as far as how it will improve your interaction with your smartphone, how it can detect, you know, know what you intend without you explicitly saying all these promises that they kept saying that it would sort of deliver and not quite everything that we're seeing now coming out of generate, not everything actually, I should retract that, but a lot of what we're seeing now that coming from generative AI clues us into the fact that, oh, hey, wait a minute, maybe this is actually kind of finally possible that we can just talk like we talk to someone else and these things are smart enough to understand what that actually means and convert it into the right action. And that is a huge, like that has the potential to be a huge quality of life improvement for smartphone users. And so if that's the year of 2024 in smartphones, that's a huge step forward. And I know we're going to talk about that in a few stories ahead as well, kind of what's coming up. I've been holding this story for this conversation just as like a, ooh, I see something happening, but we've been taking Sawyer to the vet a bit. He's an older man. So, you know. This is your dog. My dog Sawyer, yes. Not my grandpa, not my whatever. He's like, older man, older dog man. The older dog man, yes. So he's got to go to the vet a bit to get checkups and he gets laser therapy and stuff like that. Anyway, so we've been going to the vet quite a bit. And a lot of times I notice with Apple Maps, when I'm going home, it will give me a prompt and say, going home, I'll get a notification. It'll only take you five minutes. Oh, okay, great. So I'll click the notifications. All of a sudden I'm using Apple Maps. Okay, first of all, because I've been going to the vet a lot, it seems like the phone knows that. And I usually attribute that with a calendar invite. You know, like, oh, I'm calendaring. So that's why they know that I'm going here or there or whatever. The vet visits, the vet visits, I just, at some point, I just wrote laser. I just wrote whatever and no location, no whatever. One morning, one morning, we got into the car getting ready to go to the vet and it just gave me the notification. Are you going to the vet? It's going to take you, I'm like, what? I didn't put a count. It freaked me out because I didn't make the normal calendar invite. It was the repetition where it was like, I'd like to help you. I used to have the same thing at a dog park, you know, across California where I lived before. I never put that into anything. It was just a dog park I went to when I felt like it. But I went there often enough that car play when I got into my car was like, it will be 18 minutes. And I'm like, how did you know? How did you know? I have to say it freaked me out only because I usually, I'm still using Google Maps and Waze. And so I'm learning a little bit more to use. I'm learning a little bit more or I'm having and using Apple Maps a little bit more just to learn and it's completely different from when it first launched, right? So it's definitely better. It's not sending you to a lake when there's nothing there. But I don't know. It just kind of like, it really astonished me like, okay, you're trying to learn. Now, can you learn things that I really want? Right. Yeah. Besides just like, yeah, I drive to the same five places over and over in my daily life. Great. Unpredictable. Helpful. You know what? It's funny about Google Maps versus Apple Maps. I, at this point, I find them neck and neck. I don't really prefer one over the other. But sometimes someone will, you know, a friend, for example, you know, made reservations at a restaurant and is like, oh, here's the address, you know, in text. And, you know, I click on the link. Thanks. Yeah, great. Then I don't have to look it up myself. And sometimes that goes to Apple Maps. Sometimes it goes to Google Maps. It could go to another map application, but it's usually one of the two. But when I get in my car, sometimes I don't realize that. And so I open up my Maps app and I'm like, you know, because I've got my center console and I'm like, where is it? You know, and so my phone is talking. CarPlay is like, we have no idea what you're doing. You know, I have to sync the two. There are definitely improvements that can be made. You know, again, not to belabor the CarPlay point because for lots of reasons, I actually really enjoy CarPlay. I don't know what I would do without it, quite frankly. I guess I would just have my phone speaker talk into me instead. Oh, oh, that's so 10 years ago. Jason, what's your perception of Apple Maps? I mean, as a, I'm sure you're are you using Google Maps? Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, for anyone who doesn't have any, you know, insight into my background, I have only ever really had Android. I've used iOS a couple of times. And by used here, I'm meaning like used it for like a couple of weeks. You know what I mean? Each time, primarily because when I was at Twitter, I would I would trade devices with Megan Moroney and we would she would get the Android experience for a couple of weeks and I get the iOS experience. And so that's that's really the majority of my kind of like firsthand insight on a lot of the stuff that you probably talk about and live with every single week. So my view on Apple Maps isn't informed by my own experience. And and also I find myself resistant to immediately saying, well, Apple Maps is bad because I use Google Maps. I'm just used to Google Maps. And I know what I get out of it. And I'm sure Apple Maps has been around for so long. I know I'm sure it's it's ironed out a lot, if not most of the major kinks and it will always be painted as. Oh, yeah, you remember when they launched and they totally screwed things up, you know, because that happened. But that was a really long time ago. I'm sure the maps is way better now. And like I said, you know, neck and neck, they have they have some differences. But for the most part, they're both going to get you where you want to go with some settings in between. Yeah. I mean, in Google Maps, you know what? Honestly, they fill that app with so many different things that it's almost a negative at this point. It's like, you know what? It doesn't have to be the the locations, everything app. And so, you know, like it gets me where I need to go. That's what I really care about when I open up a Maps app. And as long as it's doing that, then it's kind of doing the majority of what I expect out of it. And I imagine Apple Maps does that. Well, that kind of leads, I guess, us to the next question that this is and I don't mean this to be like incendiary, but we got to do it because we got you, Jason, on the show is what what is who who is the Android consumer versus the iPhone iOS consumer. Now, back in the day, again, you know, we're, you know, we're talking about, you know, these ecosystems that have evolved so much from where they were at one point. But at one point it was like, well, you know, Android phones are more open. The phones generally tend to be, you know, cheaper. If you're looking for a feature phone, you're going to get, you know, an Android device, whereas, you know, the iPhone, you know, is just a premium phone. That's also changed. I mean, even the cheapest iPhone is still not a cheap smartphone, but but Apple has made some concessions there. But, you know, how do you feel the landscape is now? Yeah. I mean, I will just kind of preface it by saying this is a conversation that is difficult to do without some people feeling like labeling stereotypes. That sort of stuff enters into play. Yes. Yeah. And that's, yeah, I'm not, I'm not trying to, you know, back you into a corner, but yeah, no, not at all. But I think it's important because like in preparation for the show, I was kind of like looking for, you know, like some reports around this just to kind of get a sense of like, well, what is the typical Android user? You know, what, what do these statistics say versus like iOS? And I think a lot of what you're saying still is kind of true, like, like some, you know, some of the reports say an Android consumer is generally older than iPhone users, generally more predominantly male than female, although I think that's still pretty close, more frugal, more value conscious compared to an iOS or iPhone user. But all these things, you know, it's like, yeah, that applies to some people. It doesn't apply to everybody, but it is hard numbers. And I do think that one thing, and you tell me if I, if I'm wrong on this, but I think one thing that is, has existed for a long time as far as like the perception of what an Android user is okay with versus an iOS user is that Android users are okay with the fact that not everything is in its place. Like decisions haven't necessarily been made for you about how your phone operates. You have the ability to go in there and really get nerdy with how you customize it and everything. And I think that's been a perception about Android. I don't know if that's necessarily true for all. Well, in fact, I can say it's not true for all Android users. There is certainly a small subset that really, really cares about that stuff. But I think a lot of Android users, like if I look at my sister, she's an Android user back home and like she doesn't care about any of that. She just goes in the store and she's used to having a Samsung phone. So she goes, okay, well, what's the latest Samsung phone, whatever that is, I'll have it. And it does the phone, the smart phony things that she needs to do. And for whatever reason, she's never been that, like never been intrigued by moving to an iPhone, I think to a certain degree because there's, you know, there's some difficulty in switching platforms and a lot of users just don't want to deal with that because they've got a million other things to worry about. It's like the last thing I need to worry about is switching to a new platform and then learning how to use it. And everything that I'm used to being over here is now over here. And, you know, so they don't, but they're not thinking in terms of iOS versus Android. They're just thinking in terms of the phone they have and that they're used to. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I have, uh, since the, I, well, I didn't get the first iPhone when it first launched because I was still clinging on to that blackberry life. But once I did get my first iPhone, I have never had another smartphone. Oh, look, Kaiser is calling me. No, thank you. Not right this second. Are you in Northern California or Southern California? Yes, yes. Did someone in your house break a leg recently? Yeah, indeed they did. Not me, everybody, but, um, but, uh, I've never, I've just, I've never deviated. It's iPhones all the way down. Now that's just a preference. It's not because I think it's better. It's just what I know. You know, when I get a new phone, I just say iCloud backup. All good to go to expect. It's all you know, hardware, hardware gets upgraded. Everything else in the background more or less stays the same, except when iOS gets new features, which a lot of people get, you know, you don't need new hardware necessarily for that. There are some exceptions, obviously, but, um, going back to you, you mentioned Jason, uh, you know, iPhone users tend to be younger. Um, and again, I think according to stats, you know what I mean? Yeah, that's, that's regional for sure. You know, there are certain regions where, you know, um, there are a lot of upwardly mobile people financially. And, you know, Android is dominant. So, you know, your, your mileage may vary depending on where you are, but we have, we have seen reports. Um, and you know, some of it is a little silly, I think, and some of it is based in truth, especially with the younger set of, you know, oh, if, you know, somebody has the green bubble, you know, you know, in a message that everyone's, you know, the iPhone folks are like, oh, no, who's the Android person kind of thing? And it reminds me of like Nike versus Reebok when I was in eighth grade kind of thing. You know, like why was, why, why did some kids go like, well, you're not wearing Nikes. You can't play basketball with us. You know, it's, it's, it's just, it's style can be very fickle and, and kind of petty, right? I think what comes, what it comes down to is how does, how does the ecosystem work for you? You know, does it, I don't know, box you out of friendships. If so, well, that would suck. Yeah. I don't know anybody who says that. And I know lots of Android users. We don't have a problem communicating with each other at all. Well, I have some problems communicating with iPhones with my Android device, but like, you know, I mean, and there's, there's, there's certain technological reasons why that is. Does that go beyond like a, oh, you know, the emoji didn't go through type thing? Or is that what you're talking about? No, totally. I mean, yes. At the end of the day, you know, it's not a, it's not a friendship breaker and it's not a platform switcher for me. You know what I mean? But, but I could see, I could see how some people, you know, get annoyed by that because I do encounter that on my Android device reasonably regularly where, where I will be in a group, group chat like group messaging situation and I know somewhere in there is an iOS user and almost certainly it, the whole experience in that particular group chat, not in any other of my SMS threads or whatever. In that particular chat, things won't be delivered. It'll show me that there's a message coming through and then it'll just spin endlessly and I will never get it. And, you know, so things like that are annoying, but they're not enough for me personally to motivate me to be like, well, I have to switch over. I do understand that for some people that is enough. You have to switch over in a situation like that. That's where you get into sort of like the like, what's going on here? You know, you know, not that we're going to make this a show about antitrust, but it's like, you can't, you can't be forced to, you know, buy into another ecosystem when you're perfectly happy with your own because there is interoperability problems. Well, I mean, there is and I guess you can, but you shouldn't. Yeah, my, how do I, yeah. Anyway, my brother-in-law is a tech journalist and my sister has worked in tech companies before. So we're very techy people. And anyway, my brother-in-law has been an Android user for the longest time and he switched to iOS a couple of years ago just to learn and better, you know, give him better knowledge when reporting about iOS and just use cases and this, that and the other. Well, last year he moved back. So we had this like two year sort of group chat where it was all kumbaya. It was everything was working and since he moved back, like there's just little things because my sister is going to share her daughter's like videos from whatever. And, you know, it's just not formatted the same. Sometimes it's really odd. Sometimes we'll get the video really well and sometimes it'll just like shrink it in a weird resolution. And you know, there is a little bit of me. I'm like, it's because it's because Sean moved to Android. Yeah, well, I mean, you know, and I don't, I don't say that. You know what I mean? And I don't know where on the scale, you know, if you were to apply blame in that situation, I don't know where it lands. Does it land on Apple or does it land on, you know, Google and the Android ecosystem? I mean, it's yeah, I mean, I'll be really curious to see how this whole Apple RCS thing happens. And I think I saw somewhere in here, some of the features of the upcoming iOS is that potentially that RCS is going to actually be a part of that. So I'll be really curious to see how much that addresses this because I'm not, I'm not in the camp that thinks that Apple is going to completely acquiesce here and be like, all right, we'll give you everything. Like I do think that there's going to be some things that are held back and some things that are compatible across both platforms. But what does that material, what does that look like from an experiential perspective when you're actually conversing with someone on the other platform once this is all rolled out? Does it actually iron out 90% of the issues? If so, then great. I think that's good enough for me. Because it is really irritating when things like that happen and you want to blame someone because like I just want to see that damn message. John, I'm sorry, I don't blame you, but every once in a while we're like, why is this video, I can't see this video, but then we'll get a reset. It's totally fine, but it's like... I was on a group text not that long ago because a bunch of us were all going to someone's wedding and so we knew we were going to see each other pretty soon. So it was sort of like, okay, where's everybody staying, blah, blah, blah, and there was a green bubble and then things were breaking. And I was starting to get weird messages where I was just like, who's the green bubble? You know, I don't care that you're on an Android. All I want is to know what hotel you're staying at and what time you're playing lamps because you're my friend. But like, it's very important. And maybe it was because, I don't know, there were too many of us, but it was like, we were getting these funny instead of like, you know, in iMessage, for example, Eileen might say, hey, I'll be there in 10. I send her a thumbs up, you know, not even an emoji, but you know, it's the tap back. But, you know, if she was on Android, it'd be like, Eileen sent a thumbs up emoji, you know, where I'm like, okay, okay. I mean, I guess the sentiment is the same, but a little clunky. But even that doesn't work sometimes. Sometimes you just get a weird message where you're like, what is happening? Who's on the Android? Well, you know what I did a couple of months ago or like a month and a half ago, we went on a big trip, a number, like our family, another two, three other families. So there were four different families. We went on a trip to Park City for snowboarding and skiing and all that, it was a great time. But while we were there, we did something unprecedented because there was a mixture of Android and iOS users. We wanted to be sure everyone was on the same page. We took a page out of the world's playbook and we used WhatsApp. And it went well for sure. And we're in this weird little microcosm little in the US where we rely so heavily and insist on using SMS because it's easier, yet we put up with all this bulge. And everybody else is like, I mean, anytime, and I'm sure you've had this, anytime you talk about this, any of your international listeners are like, yeah, well, I just use WhatsApp. We all use WhatsApp. I don't even know why this is a bad issue for you because everyone uses WhatsApp. It's like, well, I guess, why don't we do that? I don't know. Why don't we? I don't know. A friend of mine who, she's American. She grew up in Colorado, but now lives in the Netherlands in Amsterdam. She and I, a text on iMessage, she has an iPhone. I mean, works fine. We're on several group texts that is all iMessage-based. But at some point, I don't know. She sent me a thing, was like, did you see my WhatsApp? And I was like, oh, yeah. No, I have notifications for WhatsApp turned off because I never really think about it unless I'm overseas. In which case, you know, you're going to just, I don't know, you're going to know people who use it or other people are using it. It really, it always feels like an international thing to me and that's very US-centric and I'm aware of this. But she was like, do you really want to use iMessage? Because to be honest, because she was actually coming to the state. So we were talking a little bit more than usual because she was going to be in LA actually and we were trying to figure out when we could get together for dinner. And she was like, do you care about WhatsApp? I mean, it would just like all my other friends are on WhatsApp, it would be so much easier for me if you don't care and I'm like, I don't care. And for the first time, this is like a month ago. I was like, yeah, I mean, the only thing about WhatsApp is I sit at my, you know, the computer that I'm sitting at right now, you know, running a Mac mini desktop life and WhatsApp is so mobile and she's like, no, there's a Mac OS app for WhatsApp. And I was like, there is. Didn't know that, never even thought about it. Now it's open right now, works like a charm. And I've actually kind of, I don't know, not that like some person I talked to four years ago in Paris is, you know, now we're chatting every day, but I'm like, this is great. It actually does work better in all senses of the word if you have a bunch of people on various ecosystems because it's just, you know, a different product of all. Everybody can do the same thing. Everybody can heart and you can see it and everything. I'm taking Korean classes and we have a group chat and it was started with WhatsApp. I don't even remember why, but I do know that one of my classmates lives in Germany. So I don't remember if it was her who suggested it, whatever. It's been a, it just feels like a normal messaging app that is, I don't know, it just feels like that's what it's supposed to be for everybody. And when, when I'm using messenger on iOS and I see broken things, I'm like, why am I using this with everybody? You know, I don't know. So shout out to WhatsApp. Yeah, you know, even after going through certain use cases where I'm like, yeah, it is kind of broken sometimes. It's like, why don't we all just bail and use something like WhatsApp? I'm not saying WhatsApp is the only solution. There are other things. But it's a great example of a solution where we would just stop having this conversation. Well, yeah, I mean, it's a solution that is, that was actually designed to work for everybody. And I mean, you know, me not being an iOS user, I haven't had enough experience with an iPhone, communicating with all my friends who also have iPhones to the point to where I'm like, hey man, I message, like why would I use anything else? Because when I communicate with people who were all on the same platform, I have to imagine, you know, that system enables certain things that if you aren't, you know, obviously, if you're an Android, you know, in that conversation, there's a lot of features that are not possible. But if you're an iOS user connecting with other iOS users and you can rely on those features to work, that's got to be pretty sweet. But then the flip side of that is yeah, but you know what, because it doesn't work for everybody, then you on the iOS side have to put up with the fact that there's going to be annoyances when you inevitably have someone in your messages that doesn't, you know, that doesn't have an iOS device and that limits things for you when you're bummed because it doesn't work. Of course, I'm speaking for you and I don't mean to be doing that, but just to illustrate the point. And then, you know, same for Android, that you know, there's the unlimited frustration that I think all Android users have used when we're communicating with someone who's on iOS and that picture doesn't come out right, or it's like so low res, you could hardly put it on a stamp or whatever the case may be. It's like, well, yeah, but there's all these other things that exist that actually tackle all of this stuff, right? Like I'm not saying what's up is the right selection either, but I am saying maybe we would all be a whole lot frustrated if we just use something that was cross platform, truly cross platform. Truly cross platform. For everyone and not just microcosms. I also, you know, and listen, I'm lucky enough to be able to afford various devices that are, they're not free, you know? I mean, if you wanna spend money on electronics, you have lots of choices and that all adds up. I just bought a new TV and, you know, it's not the fanciest TV in the world, but I mean, I had to save up for that thing. You know, go LG, very happy with my LG, but the OLED, you know, the blacks really are black. But again, you know, it's so much of this as just, hey, where are you right now? What's your budget? What do you need to do? And that almost comes back to the AI conversation a bit where sometimes someone will say, you get a lot of these, you know, AI, you know, the capabilities are so crazy. It's like, okay, well, what's the everyday capability that helps me? You know, I don't need to write a resume right the second. I mean, I guess I'm always kind of thinking about that, but, you know, that doesn't need to happen. I was putting together a scope of work for a freelance project for a company recently and I was like, you know, let's try, you know, let's have chat GPT like, give me the first pass. Was pretty good, I will say. I don't do that every day though. You know, that's like a once, that's an occasional thing. Some of the, you know, the conversations of like, okay, well, how would this help iOS? You know, since we're talking about Apple stuff, it's like, you know, you could get a, you know, a keynote slide deck built for you. It's like, well, that works for people who need to do things like that. I don't make slideshow, like I don't do things like that regularly. Even when I worked for a company where I had to do that, it was still occasional, but I guess it's like, yeah, it's nice to have in your back pocket, but I just, I wonder what that every day thing is because I feel like we still are so impressed by what AI, and I'm using that as a blanket term, of course, but what it's capable of, but it's like, well, what does it help me, you know, like write my news stories for DTNS every day? I've tried that. It's like, it helps, but then I still have to check the work to the point where I'm like, yeah, I'm just gonna write the paragraph myself. You know, like, you know, it's like a, I'm trying to like prove something that I don't need to prove. So yeah, we're still in that stage of like, I mean, again, you know, I'm also telling Amazon's assistant to turn my lights on and off, you know, all day every day, you know, and you know, make the living room light one brighter, you know, like stuff because I'm just used to it. It's like, there's probably a better way to do this, but I'm like, but I just have one already, you know, it's better than nothing. Yeah, I've seen some interesting use cases, but I think they're very few success use cases, like someone who used AI to create a book and sold it and sold that book on Pinterest and made tons of money, was able to navigate through using chat, GBT to understand the level of the audience, what type of, I think this is an advice book and whatever target audience able to kind of like type in, these are the things that you should include in your ebook and then, you know, again, this person was successful. I don't know how many can duplicate that in whatever, you know, genre of an ebook you want to make. Maybe that was just an anomaly, but it was interesting like using the capabilities of AI to help hone in and hone in and hone in even more. And now I'm even seeing on like even Instagram, use chat, GBT to find your audience and to create your calendar of content. So this is, if you know your target audience, you know where you want to grow, like where you want to be at from ex followers to ex followers in like two or three months. Supposedly, now I haven't tried that, maybe I should just see what happens. You can use chat GBT to help kind of create a organized system to help you get to that growth and exponential growth, by the way, not just like a couple hundred. So again, does it happen for everybody? Why am I getting a thumbs up? Why am I thumbs uping myself? Does it happen for everyone? Probably not. It's probably more few than many mass cases can do this, but it is still a use case, right? Like, okay, you used it to create a social media presence and was able to grow your, you know, following exponentially to be able to start making money. Okay, great. Same for the ebook person. So anyway, I've just seen weird, I mean, as I was looking into AI late last year and kind of like, okay, what should I be using? And I was thinking, I just wanted to understand, you know, in every area possible, like I'm trying to build a website right now that is built off AI, my own personal website. And there's something that I'm really excited about. You showed me some examples of stuff where you're like, I didn't even like try. This is just like a first pass, where I'm like, this is not bad. There's some good templates, yeah. You know, there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of kind of like throw something at AI and get something back where you're like, not bad. You know, images, you know, or, you know, text to images or even video now because we're getting into that. I mean, so much of that is like, so exciting slash scary. And then, you know, you get all the other people being like, but not perfect, not perfect. And you know, Jason, I know you, you know, you think about this a lot. So, you know, it's, it's kind of like, do we, do we sort of embrace the fact that it's evolving? Cause sometimes I feel like people will go like, well, it's like really impressive, but like not perfect. It's like, well, neither are people. Yes, exactly. Yeah. I mean, honestly, as, as I've been listening to this conversation, that it's funny that you said the not perfect thing because that was kind of rolling through my head, but maybe not from the same context. I see all of these AI tools, everything that you just talked about, I've seen them as a good collaboration slash research tool. I do not see AI personally. Like I wouldn't feel comfortable going to AI and saying, create an ebook and make it on this thing. And then I publish it in my name or whatever, even publishing it in my name with a little quote thing that says used, you know, AI to generate this. Like I wouldn't feel comfortable with that. It's, I need personally for the human element to be involved. And, and I just, I don't see these tools necessarily being like, I don't see the success of these tools and maybe I'm totally wrong being that we get to a certain point to where we never have to do anything anymore again. And we can just say, you create everything that exists on the internet and exists for all these jobs. And we can just like take our foot off the gas and go sit on a beach for the rest of our life. Like I, I don't know. Maybe there's, and you know what, there's probably going to be some people who are able to do that because they're, they figured out some sort of system. But by and large, I don't think that's where we're headed. I see these tools as ways to give us a little bit of extra kind of superpowers. It's like, if it was hard for me to write, you know, a summary of a news story because I have blank page syndrome, use chat GBT, give me a couple of sentences to start with. And then I go back over those sentences and I put them in my own words or whatever the case may be. You know what I mean? Um, yeah, I, I don't know. I think the lack of perfection out of these things like, oh yeah, but it's not perfect. Personally, I don't think it matters. It doesn't need to be perfect. Nothing is perfect. Perfection is, is a myth. I don't know. I mean, this is sort of a dumb analogy, but it's like, let's say Eileen is a great cook. She makes this dish just perfectly. And I know what ingredients are involved, but somehow I just don't do it as well. I've got the spatula. Yeah. Oh, I've so experienced that. You know, got the fork and knife afterwards. I followed the recipe to a tee and it did not turn out the way it should. We don't all use the same tools with the same desired effect. We just don't because we're, you know, little special snowflakes. Yeah. So, you know, I think AI perfectly imperfect. Yes. Sometimes very imperfect. Spotmunk in our chat did mention code generation. I know that's extremely popular, you know, with a variety of language models. I'm not writing a lot of code these days, but yeah, that's a, that's a good example of something where sometimes the AI is just the best way to go or the fastest. Yeah. And I think that's, that's probably still kind of proving itself to, you know, like is it is it creating code that's 100% but bug proof or, you know, bug free or whatever, like do I think that it's going to continue to improve in that regard? Yeah. Absolutely. All this stuff is going to continue to improve, but imagine being, and maybe this is rose rose tinted glasses, but imagine being the coder who knows all that you know about coding and can use these tools to do things that you, that would normally take you much longer to do, but use them faster to free yourself up for other more intensive things or to, you know, come up with big picture ideas, whatever, like what does it look like five or 10 years down the line when we get over the hump of being afraid of what all these things may do and we realize what they actually can do and we accept them for what they are instead of what they could be or potentially the devastation and destruction that they're going to do on society and humanity. I mean, I think there's just a lot of, there's a lot of potential and a lot of power if we do what we've done with so many other technology tools, which is see them as an opportunity to kind of expand on our tool set and do things that we couldn't do before. Yeah. Yeah. W. Scottis one says, I really need these air models to do photo and video better because I'm bad at design and I'm like, I'm the same way and I saw a demonstration on storyboarding. I'm horrible at storyboarding, but I think it's useful in certain cases. Super even if you're just doing, you know, it's a social media post. It's very helpful, but I did see this demonstration. I'm sorry. I can't remember the software, but it was amazing because they just typed in a couple of words and it was and it looked like someone actually drew, you know, step one opening the door, step two, you know, grabbing keys, but you know, in a way that it was drawn because they made the prompt be draw in pencil person opening, you know, like what you would visualize and it generated it just through the text and I'm like, oh, this is an application that could be really helpful for those of us that are like, I'm more, I'm better at editing, but the design of it. Terrible. I have to have someone, you know, design it for me. I mean, I'm looking for a logo right now and I'm like, okay, I guess I can use canva tools right now, which is fine and I am and I'm kind of tweaking what some templates are on there, but it's better if I could afford a designer to give me something, what I'm visualizing. Sure. Yeah. And you sort of go like, okay, v one, good, but make it green, you know, and iterate on that. Yeah. So anyway, I just thought the promise was really effective. Yeah. Yeah. And then in the same demonstration, I attended, this was actually a Microsoft production weekend. I saw them manipulating, you know, photos or just adding text, you know, saying, okay, I want to see a living room, but then the prompt changed in space in, you know, a forest and whatever and like just the couple changes the words and I don't know how much this application is to pay for it really transformed it. Maybe not exactly what you want it to be, but it presented something that, oh, okay, this could be useful in just visualizing whether or not you're going to use it, you know, and that's like the beauty of, you know, anything artistic. I have hired people who, because I have no design skill either. And not that you have none, but I really have none. And I've hired people before for projects to be like, all right, they want a website or, you know, they want to, you know, album art for a podcast or, you know, just things that, you know, I want someone who really knows what they're doing to give me some options. And sometimes those options come back to me. I'm like, I didn't even really tell you to do that, but I like it. Thank you. You know, and now it sparked, you know, some more creativity in my mind. Yeah. And that's, you know, that's kind of fun too. It's not just about being like, do this exact thing exactly how I want it in my mind, because that sort of squelches creativity for all of us. It's like, right. Here's my, here's my idea. Give me something. And then, and then let's talk. Right. So that's that part of it. I think is really fun. Yeah. In creating the logo for our show, I did, I used Canva, but I originally, they had new AI tools. So I was like, ooh, show logo, Apple vision show. I put in some, and, you know, it gave me back some of the most terrible things like an actual like an Apple, a half eaten Apple, and some weird colors that we would never use. So there was a little bit of like, ended up just using a template and changing the font and stuff like that, which was fine. But, you know, okay. And I guess a for effort because you really honed in on my words and then I changed the words, but it just kind of got worse. And so then it just like, they had like a microphone kind of thing. And yeah, of course. Yeah. Cause you probably put in there somewhere, podcast or show. Oh, you need some headphones and a microphone in there. Cause that's what, well, let's, let's give you the on the nose feedback first. Exactly. A lot of that. Yeah. I started to change it to aesthetic logo just to give it a little bit more style and charm and it got a little bit better there, but not quite there yet. Yeah. An interesting service that I've come across. One of my favorites is really kind of a good, a good AI site to use for exactly what you're talking about. It's called ideogram.ai and its specialty is, I mean, it's, it's, it's an image generator, but they've done a lot of work honing the textual aspect of it. So you can write in, you know, I want this to say blah, blah, blah. And I'd say about 75% of the time it'll actually say the blah, blah, blah. Sometimes it does the weird AI thing where it adds different vowels and doesn't act at all say what you intend for it to. But what it allows you to do is kind of remix your output in a really easy approach. So you could start with Apple vision show and it would give you the Apple and then you could be like, okay, remix this, but replace the Apple with the blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's almost like the, the more I've used it, the more I realized you're learning a skill as the human on how to like direct someone else to give you what you're looking for, how to take the image that you have in your mind and how to explain that in English in real terms in a way that you end up saying, which I guess at the end of the day is what LLMs are all about and you know, all this generative AI is take this text and convert it into something tan, you know, something artistic or whatever, but it's a really good like that's, that's where we start to learn new skills as well. We, because I could take that skill and get, get hired in a position at some company where I've got people working underneath me and now I need to, you know, convey to them exactly what I'm looking for. Now suddenly like I have a language with, with which to speak to be able to communicate how I take what's in my mind and put it down on paper. I don't know if there's a lot to learn from that too, but yeah. Yeah. What do you want to see out of iOS then? If the, if I, if AI is coming to iOS like, is there any example of like, well, this is something that I think would actually be really useful for me. Gosh, you know, when it comes to spring, I understand when it comes to iOS, I'm, I'm sort of a weird iOS user where I, I still, I told Eileen and everyone who listened to the show ad nauseam, you know, give me a laptop. I'm good to go. I, you know, I don't really want a small form factor unless I'm outside the house, unless I'm on the move, let's, you know, I've got a small purse where, you know, I kind of like carry my laptop bag with me type thing. So when it comes to iOS, it's like, you know, as far as getting information back that isn't like, Oh, where is this restaurant? Directions go. I don't know. I don't know how much that's a thing that I need. But I say that about stuff all the time because that thing I need, I don't realize I need because it doesn't exist yet. Yeah, totally, totally. I think that's, that's where we're at right now is all these companies really want some sort of an AI play on their mobile devices. And so they're playing around with a lot of different things and who knows what this all kind of settles into in the next couple of years. One thing that I've liked about how Google is doing a lot of this is instead of AI being a destination that you have to think to go to Google is really kind of taking the approach of building AI into the things you're already using. And I think that and I'm imagining that's what Apple is going to do as well to a certain degree. They're hopefully going to take some of these tools and integrate them into the things that you're already using so that it's not something you have to think twice about. It's just that thing you're using now suddenly be gets, you know, a lot more useful like, you know, having in Google Docs the ability to generate an image, you know, to throw into your doc and you don't have to go to another site and generate an image. You can just say, Hey, Google Docs I need an image of a horse. Give it to me and it gives it to you and it puts it at the dock for you things like that so that I as a user don't have to think about anything extra outside of I just need to do this thing. How can I do it more effectively? How can I do it better? Well, you know, speaking of what iOS gives you and doesn't give you, we got an email from Andrew who said, I'm in your opinion. What's the biggest hole in the Apple ecosystem? Andrew says, for me, it's a wireless carplay dongle. Oh, Andrew. Feel your pain. Andrew says I've driven a lot of cars with wireless charging and wired carplay, but I've only ever been in a car. I've never been in a car with with wireless carplay. He Andrew says I've just done that the once. I'd love a dongle to plug into my car to an able wireless carplay. I've seen some aftermarket solutions, but they look janky as heck. This is funny. A friend of mine who has way more money than I do. Actually, he had a car that had carplay wired. You know, this is some years ago. So carplay was like relatively new in general and he got a new car. I don't know if it was a lease or not. I don't know. I won't talk too much about his finances, but he could afford a new car and he got the new car because he's like, well now has wireless carplay and I was like, wireless carplay. I mean, how hard is it to just plug it into your center console? You know, like that's what I have. I have carplay in my car. My car is model 2019. So, you know, it's it's not brand new, but it's pretty new as far as cars go. And I've just never once been like, it's so hard to like have a cord. But then my car had to go into the shop. This is like a year ago. Go into the shop and my insurance gave me a rental car for the amount of time that the car was in the shop, which was, you know, a week, maybe even a little bit more wireless carplay. And I was like, okay, now we're okay. Once you used it, then you're like, yeah, actually, I get it. Well, I mean, that's like anything that like, like my mom, she got a wireless vacuum cleaner recently and she's like, why would you ever have a vacuum with the court again? I'm like, I do. It's fine. You don't want to spend the money right now. Yeah, it's not a life ruiner, but it's like, okay, that is pretty cool. That is pretty cool. I've kind of felt that way about wireless charging in general. I like it does not, it's not an inconvenience for me to plug my phone into my charger at night or set it on the, you know, right next to my bed, there's just a cable hanging there. And I just literally go, plink, and it's in. Right, right. And I know for some people that is like, told, you know, full on deal breaker. Oh, it doesn't have wireless charging. No, it's, I couldn't, you know, I couldn't be bothered, but I don't know. I just find it, you know, it's not that inconvenient. Charges faster. Like, I mean, I would love a world where we had no cables for anything and it just, things just worked. You know, but, and you know, we're getting there, slowly but surely. Oh, for sure. But yeah, no, Andrew, I feel your pain. I think, you know, there are a lot of things about carplay where I'm like, why isn't this app a carplay app? You know, one of the things I use on iOS the most. Now, maybe part of that is like, I'm thinking in my mind like slack. I get a lot of slack messages. Now, it's like, I understand that a lot of that is text and you're not supposed to be doing, you know, heavy text, anything while you're driving. Messages included, you know, but I message works fairly well. You know, if I'm on the move, I'm meeting Eileen. I'm going to be 10 minutes late. It's like, it's very easy for me to do all of the stuff hands-free with carplay. You could do that with certain, you know, automotive models themselves, but, but you know, since we're talking about carplay, it works really well, but it is limited. It would be, it would be nice to see, you know, what that, what the next gen of vehicle stuff looks like. Well, nine of 12 in our chat says we have a Hyundai Sonata. We are not sponsored by Hyundai here. Just letting you know. And it has wireless carplay. So I'm not just calling it out just because, you know, I will say that that, that rental car I had while my car was in the shop with the Chevy Malibu, also wireless carplay. It was a new car. You know, it was real nice. Actually, I was like, maybe I'm a Chevy Malibu person. I actually kind of like this one magical week you were. So Andrew, two options, two new options for you. If you feel like getting a new car, which you probably don't, but Hyundai Sonata and the Chevy Malibu. Well, yes. Yeah. When I pay off my Volvo, which is somewhere in the very distant future, I will think about this. First order of business. But all right. Well, listen, we're, we're getting to the end of our hour here. Jason Howell, such a pleasure to have you on the show. We're so glad that you were able to join us. You know, like Eileen said at the beginning of the show, we wanted to have you a couple of weeks ago and, you know, life got in the way. So happy to have you on our show today. Let folks know where they can keep up with all that you do, because you, you know, your, your, your work has changed a little bit as of late, but you're real busy. I'm busier now than I was when I was working full time. It's great. Full time at twit. And I was just saying before the show, it's, it's hard to know when you're suddenly self, when you're suddenly out of a job, whether you're self employed or unemployed, I feel like both because I'm working harder than ever and I'm not getting paid that much for it, but that's okay because I'm having a lot of fun creating shows like Android faithful here on the DTNS network. Of course, AI inside Jeff Jarvis, AI inside dot show is the show page for that. And then I'm now doing kind of challenging myself with one, piece of kind of longer form edited content for YouTube every week. So it's usually kind of in the form of like a review, tech review, that sort of stuff. So go to yellowgoldstudios.com. That, that's just like a, a link that'll take you to my YouTube channel. And yeah, thank you for the invite. It's always fun to hang out, hang out with both of you and, you know, have the opportunity to talk about Apple, which I don't get a whole lot of that in my life. So it was a lot of fun. Thank you. Yeah, but we've always told people from the very beginning is this is an Apple focused show. That's, you know, that's why we're here. That's what we're interested in, but you can't really do that unless you can compare it to other stuff. You know, that that's the beauty of it. You know, Apple is not always going to be the best at everything. Sometimes we might think it is. And other times we might want it to catch up to, for example, Android in some respect, you know, or, you know, a different hardware model from somebody who isn't at the Cupertino complex. So, so again, thank you for being with us. Thank you. Well, if you've got feedback for us, we would like to hear it. Feedback at AppleVisionShow.com is where to send those emails. Thanks to everybody who's been writing in. We're getting a lot of good feedback from you. So please do keep those coming. Ideas for future shows, ideas, tips and tricks you might have, we will take all of it. We want to know more from you. So we make the show that you want us to deliver to you every week. Aileen, did I miss anything? Oh, you know, just follow us on Instagram and TikTok. We get some comments there too. And there's been a couple of, you didn't know. Well, thank you. We may talk about that in future shows, but, you know, we're active over there too. So check us out on the socials. All right. Well, episode seven in the can. We'll see you all next week. Thanks to everybody for joining us. If you're listening after the fact, just a reminder, we do record the show live on Mondays to 215-ish Pacific Time. Right after Daily Tech News show ends, we're on the same YouTube channel. We'd love to have you join us live if you can, but otherwise, please subscribe. Tell a friend. If you think they might enjoy the show, wherever they might get their podcasts. Until next time, see y'all later. Bye. Oh, man. I'll ride forever. There was a couple of things I was going to bring up and I'm like, oh, we need to move on to the next thing. I know. You know what? Honestly, like, I know I was like, okay, well, we're going to wrap this one up because I was just like, eh, we've been talking for over an hour. But yeah, well, I mean, it's a good honestly. Yeah. It's a good problem. You know, it's like, imagine if we were like, you know, half an hour ago, like, and now what? Jason, what'd you have for breakfast? Oh, boy, have you ever, have you ever been in the middle of a podcast and that's happened? I have. Yes. I've been in the middle of like an interview and like I blast through, you know, like an hour long interview and about halfway through, it's like, okay, well, we've talked about things I wanted to talk about. Um, yeah, well, or you get a little stressful. Yeah. It usually has, has only happened when I'm interviewing, interviewing somebody that I maybe don't know that well. Yes. Well, yes. You know, so you get like concise answers, which is not a bad thing, but you're like, hmm, okay, it's like, stand on that. Give me a certain people. Give me some feeling. Yeah. Certain people have been trained for answering questions on TV, which is different than answering questions on podcast, right? Like they're, they're aiming for, you know, that 20 second soundbite that's going to be put into like a news clip or whatever. And a podcast we're like, yes, you know what, stretch it out. It's cool. Mm hmm. Keep talking. Yeah. All the details. I mean, of course, it depends, you know, that's the beauty of podcasts. It's like there are no rules. I mean, you, we're starting to get certain like, okay, you got your hour podcast. You got your half hour podcast. You got your 10 minute or 90 minute. I mean, you know, but, um, yeah, but we don't have to, we put our commercial breaks where we want. Okay, people. We do what we want. Yeah. Do what I want. We'll find a moment of pause. Actually, speaking of AI, a cast will just identify if I wanted to click the button and it'll be, it'll, you know, find the pause for me. I kind of choose the pause instead. Have you had to turn into a little hit and miss? Yeah, it's very hit and miss. Yes. No, I do all the choosing, but I see that feature and I'm like, oh, if I remember lazy, you know, maybe I'll do that, but right. Right. I don't know. I will say that on no little more, I specifically program a ad break in the show. I give it a nice two second, you know, blank area, a little silent spot. Yeah. And I'll tell a cast, hey, go ahead and just find a spot. It never finds the two second break. It never finds it. Never not a single time has it ever found it. It'll pick one like right after, well, the music's already ramping up. Tom's already getting into the next explanation and he took a breath and now you want to give it to me? No, go back. I gave you a two second spot. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I also, I will listen to, you know, just so we don't feel like, you know, we're alone. I listened to a few podcasts where it's the same thing. There's this one podcast called watch where crappens, which is all just like wrap ups of Bravo reality shows. You know, it's not for everybody. Very funny show though. And they even have like a little like music stinger, you know, like it's time for a commercial, but like half the time it'll be like, it's time for a cup. And then the commercial plays and then it'll come back commercial where I'm like, yeah, no one really looked at that very closely. No, totally not the end of the world, but you know, it could have been a little bit more seamless. Could have been better. Yeah. I may or may not have written into a few podcasts asked them if they needed an editor just to mark the ad spots for them. Wow. You're like, your show is so annoying at the ad break. Let me help you. They'd be like mid sentence. The ad break role and then a little while later they'd say they throw to add and then they'd just come back and like, Oh, weird. Someone someone needed an extra 10 seconds of time. Yep. Yeah. If you need that, send it my way because I have the 10 seconds and I'm willing to make your podcast infinitely better. Yeah, you got to get that right in my opinion. I mean, any you any listener is going to be annoyed. Well, it's it's it's breaking that, you know, that wall, right? Yeah, because if it's seamless, you just sort of, you don't think about it. You're just, you know, it's kind of, I don't know, ads are a part of lots of podcasts, but but when it goes wonky, you're like, oh, yeah, I hate it for nothing. It is a great way to get me to listen to your ad though. Because if it just cuts in the middle of the sentence, I end up listening to half the ad before I realize because you weren't prepared. You didn't get the all right coming up next for the blah, blah, blah, for you to like pull out during. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard for overcast to skip 30 seconds, but I don't know when to hit the 30 seconds. Oh, man. Um, Jason, hopefully it didn't, you didn't feel like we did put you in the corner. No, in the corner. Nobody puts Jason in the corner and he wouldn't let us even if we tried. Besides the physical corner. Yeah, no, it is totally in the corner. You know, I mean, I've I it's not a corner, but you know, yeah. Well, you've got a lot of you've got a lot of kitschy stuff to show off back. I got a lot of eye candy. I got stuff in the background. Yeah, I've got a, you know, it's right behind me really old Len Peralta picture and the corner, I love a thing that my kids made for us. I feel like I need to put something official here. Maybe move that. Yeah. There's a lot. I could do this corner to spruce it up, but right now, I mean backgrounds. I find every time I move to a new place, which is fairly often, but you know, I mean, I just got lucky here. These are like built-ins. I didn't know they're built-ins. Oh, yeah. I don't know about that. That's nice. Yeah. The landlord, I don't know. They put them in at some point for who even knows why, but I'm like, it's perfect for a podcast background. Yeah, that's great. But you know, I haven't really thought about it much since I just through the source over there. I'm like, it's fine. Looks like a book. It works. All right, y'all, but you know, I got to I got to check in on my little patient. Yes. All right. Are we all are the uploads all done or are we still recording? I think mine is. We're still recording. We need to need to say goodbye to the. We should say goodbye to the live. No, we're still live to everybody live. Goodbye to the live. Thank you. This was fun. See you next week. Yeah.