 So let's get started actually, just because I think this will probably be a quick meeting. As mentioned, Diane is not here today. In terms of the current agenda, is there anything I've missed, either current items or new business? I think what might be useful is just putting, like we do the main meeting, review the issues and pull requests, because I think we're now saying that that's part of this meeting. Yeah, yeah, pull requests and then new business. Okay, so don't forget to put your name and the attendance part of the document. That way we know who was hearing. You have to, you have to someone if they missed something and put your affiliation that always helps. Okay. So further update and placement, there's no update on that. I do actually, I did open an issue. But no update on that. Beta site, Brian, any updates in general? Other than it's no longer beta. It's running as normal. From last docs meeting, I've added the section on how to actually create new content. We've got three sections there. We've got one, if you want to install the stuff locally. One, if you want to use Podman or Docker. And then the other one, if you want to use in cluster with Che, I've added the dev file to the repo. And so any feedback on that will be greatly appreciated. I also noticed that in the working group session, I've missed the main working group. I put all the sub working groups, but I actually hadn't put anything about the main working groups. I changed that. And obviously the two links in the bottom. The GitHub now goes to the OKD or OpenShift OKD main repo instead of the comments. And with the new Twitter handle, that's now in the bottom comment as well. But the Facebook sold it goes to the OpenShift Facebook. So dev changes since the last docs meeting. But as I say, it's now business as usual. I think moving forward, it's no longer beta. We're live. No one screamed that it's terrible and we should revert it back or anything like that. So I'm calling it done. This is closed. It's now production. All right. Excellent. Thank you for all of your work. Any questions from anyone on website stuff? Well, then let's move on to name and scope of install and read me. Haven't done anything on that. Brian broke up a lot of that and put that in. But now we just need to rework those actual files in the code repo or the OKD repo. Yeah, how do we want to organize that? Because what a lot of community sites have is they have, if you want to use it, there's one section which we're more catered for. But are there different use cases for technical information in terms of if you want to learn how to customize a build, if you want to extend and add new capability. And I'm just thinking, how do we want to do that? Because I think some of the information in there will fall into that subgrouping or subcategorization of information. So it might be worth just thinking about how we want to organize documentation generally for the, I want to do more than use OKD. I want to be able to get under the covers and do stuff. Yeah. And I think that this is a conversation we might want to loop the demon for some of my senses that the read me on the OKD repo. Should just be this is how to file an issue. This is what you should do if you have an issue. This is what you should do if you want to talk about something like breaking down the issues and discussions section of that repo for actual code related stuff. I think modifications should go on the website. How to do modifications and do. But at the minute he's got some information about like how the build is constructed and things like that. I think we want that in technical documentation. Yeah. Yeah. I think at the end of it, it comes to what is the purpose of that repo. Yeah. And I mean, so if we look at this here, let's bring it up actually real quick. I agree some of that needs to come into the website, but it's then how do we organize it in the website to make it useful and. Oh, yeah, let me share my screen here real quick and let's talk about this for a second. And. Okay, so this is it folks can see. I think you're on the wrong screen. What are you seeing right now? I see a window with downloads in it. Oh, hold on. Let me see here. Okay. That's it. All right, so. Yeah, I mean at this point, the repo is becoming. You know, so let's look at the read me so if we look at the read me, there's just explanation of what it is right. A sentence about the working group. And then if you look at the getting started, it tells you how to extract 4.5. Right. Exactly. And we can. I feel like getting started having a getting started in the repo file. The repo read me makes sense because there are some folks who go directly to repos for open source projects. What getting started do you want is a UPI and IPI what platform getting started is such a complex. There is no getting started one line right command. The obvious one would be to put CRC there if that would if you wanted something really simple you could run on your laptop. It's the only experience you can but I think as we agree in the main meeting no one's really using CRC that we can tell because it requires a beast of a laptop underneath it. If you look at the first step is getting through to gig. I was going to say the first step of using CRC on your laptop is to get 32 gigabytes of memory download. Yeah. I feel like the this info about the installer and stuff like that. It starts out in one place and then this whole and then it sort of ends up in another kind of meander. Yeah, it's going to be able to just install cluster without no what infrastructure what you know. So, I mean, and the other thing to start talking about nightlies. If you're new to the project to start talking about nightlies and pruning in 72 hours it's a bit like. Which ways I don't even know what is yet you're already telling me how to do nightlies and. Well, in a way, I mean, like, okay, so I think that this is probably a legacy from 3.x. You know, sort of evolving from that. Okay. And in a way, whatever we're going to do now it might be an interim step because. It would sort of be useful to do what we were talking about in the other meeting, which is get to a sort of an OC cluster up type capability. Which basically means. You know, stripping out, you know, metrics and, you know, basically stripping out all the stuff that makes okay, the useful in production. Yeah. So people can sort of try it out and get and get a console. Yeah, we almost want a mini shift experience or a kind or a mini cube. Where it's quick and easy to go. I mean, to me, I would say. This should be a general introduction of the sort of standard paragraph. Okay, these are community driven version of open shift. And then it should point to the website. I mean, to me it's let's have the information in one place and maintain it once. So. But then the question, but then the question is. What, what does this, this repo serves as a. I mean, to me, this repo is our planning repo for issues and discussions. Surrounding the code itself, the surrounding. Okay, D itself. I mean, yes, there's almost no code in, there's no code in this. Yeah, there really isn't like there's some scripts I think in the guides that I put in, but other than that, there's nothing. But again, most of those guides should be in the guide section because that's where all the updated the modern ones were. Well, it looks like someone just made a update. I know, I noticed that. Oh, the Libvert version. Oh, yeah, right. Okay. This is probably like Sandra or someone. No, update by nature proxy guide links. Okay. I mean, the problem is if they're there and you're in the documentation, you're not going to find them if you're. So we need the information in one place. Yeah, and maybe we take it to the other meeting that we shut down all content in here and move it onto the website if it's going to sort of persist. Yeah. Well, because this is all been rewritten. This one I wrote and that one's, that's old old v sphere terraform. Yeah, actually these shouldn't have been updated what we should have done is pulled them a while back, because that's part of the stuff that was rewritten and moved over to the work that Mike did. Yeah. And then now we're on our website. Right. So let's do that then let's bring this to the greater group that we limit guides and we limit this repo to just discussions and pull requests and issues related to the code base itself. The release itself. And then we modify the read me to go to the docs, the docs. Now what about known issues because Vadim is probably going to ask about that do we keep known issues and FAQ here or do we do them. Well, I think he was on the website now right. Yeah, I did copy the FAQ onto the website but again known issues. I would move. Yeah, this should literally put everybody with the docs, the docs should be where all the information is. I mean part of the reason of updating the documentation technology is, it's now trivial to update. Right, it's a mockdown file. It's trivial to date so I would say that that is the single source of information. Particularly for discussing changes, raising issues. As we've highlighted in our sort of community guidelines, but this is a place where you talk about changes and potential bugs. And that's the purpose of this repo now. Yeah, information is on the website. And this is a sort of a way of managing issues and bugs. It's so as I scroll down I'm seeing that it's like, learn more that like way down the page they talk about like what you can do with it. Yeah. Yeah. So, is there anything here that should stay other than this first paragraph. And it should just link to the website or should it have like a list of links for these things like getting started. I think we just put them to website because that's all in the website. Then if we want to reorganize a website, this doesn't get left behind. And I think there is stuff. Yeah, Brian, excuse me. Aren't you really saying that there is no use for this repo. Like, is it all we should really close this one down. Well, no, for, for content, it shouldn't have any content, but this is a planning repo. So this repose purely for the discussions and the issues. Well, let me ask you this though, is there a reason why we wouldn't. And then the, the okd.io repo. Have a a tags for issues to separate out website versus code. I think just move everything there. Right. I think it's actually quite good to have a planning repo. Because then, if you raise an issue in okd.io, it's a bug on the documentation. We've got nowhere because most of the upstream, most of the content comes from upstream repo. So if you want to raise a bug on okd. Other than Vadim's installer repo, there's nowhere to put that bug. Or if you want to have a discussion around, say, the work that we're doing on, on, say, getting operators updated and things like that, there's nowhere we can have that discussion. And this repo is that purpose. So I think having this as not for content, but to do the. Use the discussions, the bug requests for okd. I think that's a good use. If we were a bit more formal, we'd use those issues and put a Zenhub or something on the front of it and this would then be our task tracking as well. But as we're not that that's a formal here, then we just need the discussions and the, the issues. The one hitch with this repo is that in essence, then it means that we will continue to any community contributions will continue to be at the. So this, this one, because it's under OpenShift slash Red Hat Control, none of us can contribute to this directly. It all has to get approved by either Christian. Or Vadim. Or, I think that's it. I think those are the only 2 people that are actual. But isn't there a long term. In the other meeting to actually bring up and go to GitLab. And move out of the OpenShift. There is, there is. Yeah, now I, and I actually, I actually created a ticket with Diane's name on it to look at the legal and security to check with legal and security at Red Hat to see if that's okay. So ideally we want to shut this one down. We want to shut the okd.io down and move them both to the new Git, the okd org, wherever that's going to end up living. That's the way I would see it going and then community members can then be admin. Alright, yeah, that's that makes sense. So let's run this by the main group then and see where we go from there. See if anyone has any concerns about doing that. So just summarize, Jamie, then our proposal is to move the content to okd.io and leave the discussions and issues here. Yeah. All subject to everything moving. Right. Yeah. Thank you. Yep. Thank you for summarizing. All right. So, next up is let me find this here. I create build a code of conduct. Michael isn't here to respond on the status of the code of conduct. Survey. Okay. I'll just give me a second to fix my earphone. Sure. Okay, I'm going to share my screen. Can you see my screen? Yes, we can. So, this is the user survey that I have created. I'm going to share it with you and everyone else for that, you know, for feedback. But how does this look? I have compiled this was the question. This is about eight, eight questions over here. This was suggested by somebody in the last meeting. What version of okd are you using? Although it's not in, in this, this discussion, but it was suggested last time. So I added over here. So the questions are what version of okd are you using? What is the biggest challenge you face using okd today? What, which critical features do you need that are not available in okd today? How many people in your company are using okd? Again, this question is not posted here, but somebody mentioned it in the last meeting. So I added it over here. Let me, let me ask you something about the before you move on. Let me ask you about that one. And maybe should we maybe it's, you know, and I can, I can comment on this as well, but should we maybe. What, what do we mean by using it, like developing on it, administering it? Like, we might want to clarify, like, like what we mean by using it or write the sentence in such a way that that it's, you know. And I think the other thing is, sorry, I missed the first couple of questions. Are you asking, are you using it in a business or personal content? That's a good question. Yeah. Because obviously that that question doesn't make sense. And what we don't want to do is we don't want people to think, oh, you only want business users here. So home home lab is a valid use and we want to just sort of make them feel that this question is for them as well. And you should also think about multiple versions because people can be easily using, you know, like at the moment 4748. Okay, so I should make this a checkbox, right? Checkboxes. Yeah. And make it plural for the question. Yeah. And do you want to, is it possible that somebody's just in for interest and they're not actually using it? But, you know, you want to get what are they interested in. As in, what are they interested in as in. Well, I guess my question is, is the audience only people that are currently using okay D. Or is it also people that would be interested. Well, let's target. Let's for this target people who are currently using it. Assuming that's because I think we can assume that the only people that are going to take the time are people that are currently using. I would clarify it over here. We're currently using it. Okay. Moving on the other questions are which optional operators are you using now this was suggested by Vadim, which operators are you lacking those two questions. So I reframed it like which operators are currently missing and are needed. Maybe I need to reframe it in a better way, this particular. Again, yeah. Sorry, just on that one. I think what we're actually asking is what OCP operators. Would you like on okay D. Because that's a very open question in terms of what operators are missing. Well, so that's an interesting question. Do we anticipate this is more, I guess, for the larger group. Do we ever anticipate adding content. Like operators that are not default in OCP. In other words, do we ever anticipate adding operators. Default operators that go beyond what OCP has filtered down to. Sure, I say, why not? I mean operators and Kubernetes term. Not an OCP term. Yeah, but I think the question comes down to. We already have the community hub, the operator hub operators, they're already available. Yeah, what we don't have are the red hat provided private catalog. And marketplace. Granted, that's an opinionated question because we obviously us here are aware of the fact that there's been a delay on. But I think that's the question that I think Vadim was probably asking in terms of. Which red hat operators. Okay, which operators. Because I mean, do we actually want to open the question up to the. Okay, so how about two questions and. Like that, that 1, which is the main question and then sort of an open ended any other operators. Okay, okay. By the way, there's, I don't know if folks saw the discussion. I'll just mention here. In fact, I need to log into the issue and comment because I mentioned that I wouldn't. I just haven't had a chance yet. But. Last week, someone pointed out that. They found the error as to why. It's a fluent D and journaling issue. As to why the logging operators and available yet. And the response from the person at red hat will was, well, eventually the versions. Will sync up. And, you know, then we'll be able to release the logging operator for okay D. Obviously that's a less than. Desirable. Response. Yeah, once the journal. Yeah, so basically it's the way the journal. Journaling is being done. There's an older version on. Our costs and because F costs is a newer version of the Dora, and there's the newer journaling. That that's an error that's holding it up. So I'm going to respond to that thread as well. And if other folks want to. That would be helpful because if we could get open shift logging in there. That would be very helpful. Anyway, a little bit of a diversion, but I want to make sure folks were aware of it. Okay. So, coming back to this. After this, there's a question for okay, the documentation how helpful is official of okay, the documentation for achieving your goals. Can we add any other question or should we reframe this question? How about the community documentation? I was going to say, I don't think the member, any member of the public may be able to differentiate between official and community documentation. Right. We just say documentation because ultimately. Yeah. You know, if something's missing upstream, then we can mention to Michael or someone else. Yeah. Any other documentation related questions or, you know, we want to keep it short the questions anyway. So, I could, well, could we add a question where that's open ended about their response. So, in other words, a question after that that would be like, can you elaborate on your response to the question above or, you know, something like that so that we, if they say that it's to, you know, why is it to what is it that's lacking in the documentation. Yep. Another question that follows on from the discussion we had last meeting. Is it worth asking if anybody uses CRC or for okay the get getting thoughts on that. That's probably we have to be careful that we don't go like I think above like 10 questions or whatever. Yeah. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, eight questions we have. Do we want to do one about CRC do we want to take up the survey space with CRC. I don't know it's just obviously one of the goals that we had for that sub task is to work out if anyone's actually using it. Yeah. What would the question be like. Have you are you interested in using code ready. Have you or will you be using code ready containers or something like that. I don't know Brian. What do you think, Bruce. Yeah, I guess that that is sort of two separate things isn't it. One question is, do we want to know if people have been using it. And that's sort of interesting but it doesn't really affect what we do in the future, which is what you're interested in. I think the question is, do you use because if it turns out that we've got a community that are actively using it. Then it suggests that we have to keep, keep maintaining it. Yeah, but it doesn't tell us if they want to use it, but they haven't been because of. Right. Exactly. So for the from the CRC side, what would be most useful is, well, okay, one, are you using it. What would you do if not. How would you want to change so that would be useful to you. Or something like that. Okay. I mean, what would make it useful, what would make you use it. I mean, we could turn it around and say, and ask more about a laptop. We could install. And so without using any product or without talking about code ready containers, it's like. Would installation or something like that. Yeah, it's like, if you could run a personal copy on your laptop. Would that would you find that useful or a cut down version on your laptop. Would you, would you use that or something something along those lines just so we can have an information. And then just ask. What's the memory footprint of your laptop. 1632 64 gig. And just see what people all into tip. Because that would. Well, yeah, can we do conditional questions. In other words, if you say no, then you pop up another question to ask for explanation. I am going to check out that but if let's say that if yes, we can do that. I'll find that out. I don't know as of now. Yeah, I don't know either. But I've seen it in some other Google form. So, let me find that out. Okay, great. Thank you. Thank you. Just one question. The very, very top you say we're collecting emails. Are we GDPR compliant. That's a good question. I know there's a California US citizen. I'm not that familiar. Well, there's a California equivalent of that and I can't remember what the acronym for that one is but that's the same about collecting personal information. Right. Do we make it anonymous. Well, if we collected, you're meant to say what you're using it for. You have to say why you're collecting and what you what you're going to use it for. How about at the, here's what I've seen is at the bottom saying, if you would like us to reach out to you to discuss your responses. Please leave your email that makes it optional for them and it states what we would use it for. And we would say something like we won't share it with anyone else. Yeah. Yeah. This is okay. And, and, and after that one question for the community, do you think we should add this over here? What could we do to make the community more welcoming or do we need this? Yeah, I think so. Should I add some add one more, like any additional comments, a question like that. No, yeah, I think so because that's an optional thing and if someone doesn't, you know, if they don't have anything else to say, it's not like it's an extra question or anything. Okay. And I think that puts us at 10 doesn't it. Yeah. Unless we have those sub questions. Right, right. Yeah. Okay. Cool. This, this was good discussion. You know, I'm going to work on this and I'm going to let you know. Excellent. Thank you so much for this. This is, this is great. So moving. I can I talk about the Twitter thing that. Yeah, because I realize it's probably really late at night for you and we are eternally grateful that you are sharing your time with us this late at night. That's very wonderful of you. It's very much. Yeah, thank you. So we have a Twitter account and I hope you know that we I create. So I talked to Diane and she suggested this handle. Okay, the underscore IO. And this is the. This is the profile and share it. And this is our first tweet and your question was about how to, you know, giving the Twitter access to others. So I think I'm going to, I don't know. I shared all the password and everything with Diane already, but I saw something like this. So maybe, you know, we could share this. This through tweet deck. Oh, interesting. Yeah, I'm not familiar with it. I saw this over here in the settings. So I thought that, you know, do that. Okay. Yeah, I think that's worth checking out for sure. So let me start with Diane and then we can I'll share it with Diane and then we can take it from there. Who else to add. That's awesome. Any questions on the Twitter stuff any comments on the Twitter stuff. I think she's actually monitoring that on a daily basis. If you get a question, is there somebody that gets notified or it's just me for now. Just you. Okay. Yeah. You know what you might want to go ahead Brian sorry. I was going to send in your happy doing that. Yeah, yeah, for now. Yes, it's it's not not not a difficult job. So one thing that we might we might want to do is start following others because then you build up the grid. The social grid basically so maybe start following back people, not just anyone who follows but you know. Right, exactly like the SIG maybe follow some of us follow other Kubernetes based Twitter handles other get ups, Twitter handles, things like that. These get ups based Twitter handle. Okay. Yeah, Kubernetes and get ups. Okay. So they have a fedora suggestion as well. Oh, yeah. Okay. Cool. All right. Thank you for this. Thank you so much. See what we got next on the agenda here. Actually going longer than I thought we would do that was the survey new business Twitter access we did that. That's actually about it. Issues, issues. Oh, yes, issues. Sorry. And I'm not used to it yet. Obviously. So let's go to issue. There's one I want to close off. Right. Update the group charter is in there gather legal input. I put these in like just a bit ago. Yeah. There's a, there's the one that's Alexander Sandro. Yeah, about the security and should we have a section we sort of said we're going to defer that to us. Yeah. So that's probably one that we need to talk about whether this meeting or the next one. And the one I actually want to close off is the last one on the list the modification required for inclusive language. I put a comment in there. We've got 66 instances of the word master, which gets flagged by the inclusive tool. And they're all down to links to other repose and I've listed the 12345 repose we have links to that have their primary branch called master. And then the main use is obviously. Okay, the an open shift, the control plane are on master nodes. Yeah. So master appears mostly in the guides where we talk about installing because master node is what the product uses, which obviously okay, they then uses. So we can't really do an install guide without using the word master. Yeah, I noticed it's in the console as well. There's several places that talks about master nodes. Yeah, so there's nothing in there that is inflammatory or people could take offense to in terms of our content. But there's the 66 cases that were flagged by the tool. And they're all legitimate uses. So I think we can close this issue up. I did look at, could we make this part of the publishing pipeline, but the issue comes then. It's, it's a subjective decision that is not a sort of yes or no case, because like with these 66 you have to look at it and say, is this offensive is this bad use of language. And in all of these, there's a, there's a valid use that either the other gates we pose are going to have to rebrand their default. Or we're going to have to get the product to remove what they call the master nodes or the control plane nodes. So I'm proposing that we close this issue with no further action needed. What do other folks think. Well, I guess, okay, I'm totally happy with that. My question is, do we need Diane's blessing. Coming from the red hat side of things. Probably a good idea. Since, since they are the sponsor of this. Yeah, it's a good point. What's Diane's. Yeah, I was just a signer to the ticket and then put your adder to the ticket and then for a last comment, but you know, Diane, will you say you've got my vote. Right. Anyone else on the call have any thoughts on this. I put a comment in asking. Okay. Anyone else have any thoughts. All right. Do we have anything else on the agenda? Did you want to talk about that Sandra or put that up to the next time. So, the thing about that one is that the main group decided that we'd want to get a community, a security liaison or someone to sort of to speak about that. And we did talk about this group publishing some security information. I think that's a little bit, I think we should wait until after the holidays to take that one on. In essence, what we're going to want to do is we have those links that were in the main meeting folks through and links. We're going to want to define some sort of process and get a volunteer to be sort of the person to scan those and make sure that, you know, we haven't missed anything or add anything or, you know, whatever. I'm kind of maxed out in terms of time. If anyone else wants to volunteer to assemble a security page based on the content of the main meeting from last week where folks threw in links to different things. Yeah, my sense is a lot of people are kind of maxed out right now in terms of time. Yeah, let's let's take this up in December. And we'll circle around and, you know, basically we need a web page that puts all those links in a nice coherent way with some explanation, and then provides like a contact. Or it actually a description of if you think you have a security issue. You know, reach out to X email, which we don't really have a dedicated email right now. For the stuff that goes to the group, right. But at the end of the day, I think it's going to have to go to a red hat set because we, other than coaching and installer, everything else is. But what if it's something with the installer, then it has to go to redhead and then down to Vadim's reaping still a red house. Yeah, I guess that's true. Yeah, that's true. All right. Is there anything else that we want to talk about. Not right. Well, I am going to stop recording here and I appreciate everyone coming for the meeting a lot of great work has been coming out of these meetings. Diane actually said as much in conversation reason. Stop recording.