 All right. So top of the top item. Oops. Top item is help if I had the caps lock in the correct position. All right. So top item here is a rival new arrival. And let's, let's get the show. So I'm going to stop sharing and do you rather share your camera and show us what you got. Yes. And thanks very much again to your ours for your help with the Jenkins contributor summit in June. That was really exceptional. You were wonderful. You made it, you made it much more credible when the newcomer contributor segment had two brand new contributors who were saying, yeah, this is how you become a contributor. Thank you so much. The pleasure is all mine. So I'm trying to. Okay, I think this might work now. It's not working. So can you give me like a few more minutes? I'll try to rejoin. We, we certainly, oh, no issue. We'll, we'll just, we can switch and share the screen and we'll bring it, bring you on later. Yes, that would be great. That's great. Yeah, that, that what you'd shown us earlier was great as well. So we'll, we'll do that. All right. So topics that I had on my list, technical writing conventions. I've got a question that Meg really needs a consultation with you because me talking about these kind of topics is really dangerous. I tend to say things that are just wrong. And then the Jumbotron update, upcoming events, October fest. What other topics do we want to put on the list? Let's see, dear, there was one, I think that you and I should probably discuss, which is weekly change log automation, or weekly change log. Yeah, weekly change log and weekly change log automation. I haven't done my, my review yet, but I think it's worth a discussion for your sense of it, et cetera. There was a discussion that was raised by Daniel, and I wanted to hear your opinion, what you think. I'm sorry if this for me. Yeah, but we'll get to it on the agenda. Just, it's a topic. Any other topics we need to include. I'm muted and I'm talking away and you're ignoring me. Sorry. That's quite what you're not sure for. For DevOps world. Did we do anything, did we try to virtual like get people to distribute for the first time like we did when we had in person DevOps world? And if not, do we want to try it or is it just too much with the remote? Good question. So the contributor summit would be a really good place, good place for a first time, first time involvement there, because for instance, we've got a user, user forum, a user presentations forum. And it was really cool when at the last contributor summit, Johannes presented, hey, here's how I'm doing using Jenkins in biological research. And another presented, hey, here's how we're using Jenkins to do software development for, in their case, elastic and elastic search. And there are all sorts of other cool stories like that and user presentations would be a great excuse for someone to be a first time presenter. Say, hey, here's how we're doing Jenkins. Yeah. That's so cool. As an aside to that, do we also take that stuff and publish it? We did. We did. Awesome. Cause like that's so cool to be able to continue that on. Yes. That there's like a use case section of our website. Depending on how detailed they get. Right. And there are a lot of things like that, right? Well, we were, we were, we were seeking to better understand the users. And, and I think we achieved that. But the, what we didn't, what we didn't do then was we've got more to capitalize on it using what you honest did and what others did to say, look, here's a story. Jenkins is the way is a good example of those kinds of stories. All right. All right. And Deraj says that his camera is now working. So I'm going to switch off the, my share and let's, let's, let's see what you got Deraj. Sure, Mark. So we see you. That's great. All right. So hi everyone. My name is Deraj and I just got a new gift from Jenkins and this is how it looks like. And a good thing here. So you have the contributor location where you've contributed content multiple times right there on your T-shirt. Hardly anybody gets the exact, certainly the get plugin is not on any T-shirt that I've ever seen. So that's cool. That's unfair Mark. So thank you so much for your efforts to get me this. Thank you. Excellent. And thank you for your contribution, Deraj. That's great. Thank you so much. Thank you. All right. So let's go back to agenda. And. So idea was, we've got first this technical writing conventions topic. Oh, we were trying to figure out if there are other topics. Meg, you had a question on. Do devops world. So is it okay if we take that further when we get to that in the agenda? Absolutely. Just the question is what are we doing there? We probably need to start tracking it, right? Good. Yep. Alyssa's. And Oleg's ask me anything. Is another good one. But it's already done. And we're past the point where we could take new speakers. So, so it's. Yeah, we've had our chance there. Right. Anything else? Oh, I have. The change log that I've generated right now. Okay. Just two minutes. So that we can add as well. Good. All right. So let's put that one right before weekly change log automation. Excellent. Okay. Anything else. Okay. First topic then technical writing conventions. So Meg, this is one where I need some guidance from someone who is actually a professional technical writer. And so here's the, here's the context. We've got some grammar and punctuation fixes. I'm going to make this big enough to read. So what I did was I commented here on. See what was it. Oh, the change log. So I commented here on. See what was it. Oh, the change was from in order to upgrade to to upgrade and then ends the sentence with a preposition to take care of. And I'm not accustomed to ending sentences with prepositions. Help me out on this. Again, I muted and you, you are ignoring me. You are correct. And to take care of is kind of informal anyhow. There are a few details and steps. That are required. Oh, very good idea. Okay. All right. Let's, let's do that. I think before I unmute it, I said. To take care of is pretty informal for written. Right. Okay. All right. Great. Okay. All right. So then. All right. And, and few details. Here's. Sentences to begin with there are kind of a bad idea too. Sometimes you can't avoid them, but. Okay. All right. Okay. All right. Okay. So, so see for me. I haven't seen the whole thing. This all it sounds kind of weak and Nambi Pambi is what. There we're about to go into a list of the steps that you need to use to upgrade. Correct. Yes. Yeah. Why don't we just say. These are the steps required to upgrade from. The steps to upgrade. From JDK eight to JDK 11. Very good. Okay. These are the steps to upgrade from. Where the steps to upgrade. From blah, blah, blah. To upgrade the JVM used to run Jenkins more. There are a few details here and here. These are the steps and some. These are the steps that are required to upgrade from. Like that. Or go back and say, get rid of. These are. Start with the steps. Oh, there we go. Okay. Shorter, the better. Right. Okay. Excellent. Thank you. Okay. Good. Then the next one was. And this is one I'm accustomed to using the impersonal form where I used to use the word. I changed it to read. We is there a sense there of. Hey, either is okay. Give me some guidance there. There. Oh, this is religious. Oh, okay. So it's not likely to get real guidance. It's more. Right. It's, and it's I'm, I'm with you, but then people think I'm cold hearted anyhow with my writing style. So. But yeah, the, and I, not crazy about please do this and now I would, but I would still, I would say Java 11 support is included in Jenkins 2.164.1 and later. I don't see the need for was first included. Like that. Yes. And see, I'm not even sure that I need to say LTS then. Yeah, that's. How about Java 11 is supported? Right, yes. And can we expect that people understand that a dot one is an LTS or is that true? Well, that's why the, oh, you were thinking I could safely remove the word LTS. We were talking about removing it and I'm not, I haven't internalized it. Yeah, and I'm not sure. Actually, it doesn't matter whether that's long. It means that anything with a higher number than that supports it. Correct. And even if that were a pro, if that were not an LTS, Java 11's in it, right? Correct. So keep it short and punch. Okay, good. All right. Spelling fix, indentation fix, remove hard stops from end of bullet list entries, the rest I think are all just fine. Okay, good. That was, okay, that was perfect. That was what I needed. Thanks, Meg. Okay. Now question is, is that something we should consider codifying in the style guide? The style guide has other things in it, but doesn't specifically talk about that one. Let's see if we look at handbook section here. It's this one. Handbook style guide guides us on how to use links and using for example, instead of EG and why we use section headers instead of bullets, et cetera. And numbered, I've been busted by new colleagues because I use bullet lists a lot when it should be a numbered list. Right, yeah, me too. Yeah, I don't like numbered, I think so often numbered lists are hard to keep the numbers if you would step in the middle, but. Okay. Yeah. All right, so I'm gonna leave it as is then. Thanks, thanks for that. Anything else on conventions before we go next topic? Yeah, I'm good. Okay, next one is I've submitted a PR, Megan I actually created the PR last week for the DevOps world announcement and Oleg reviewed it and said, hey, we really need a page focused on this. It was, where is it? DevOps world. He said, hey, please give me a page on the slash events which makes sense. We've got a slash events play page for other things like for contributor summits. Why shouldn't we have one for DevOps world? What happens consistently? We should put it up there. And I've still got to create that. The other pieces I think are okay and we're in general approved or were no objections. If you've got insights marked to discuss with Alyssa Tong for the content. When these events are passed, do we have a place where you can go and see events that have happened, say in the last year? Lights of them or something? Well, usually we will blog about them and describe them there or we'll put links to the notes, et cetera or move these into a different place. So it's pretty common that we would find a way to retain the content. But it's not, we have recent blog posts but we don't actually have a list of the recent events. If I look, I mean, they're probably all in there, right? Correct, we don't have a list of recent events. That's certainly correct. Yeah, I don't know. I think that I would like that, but that's just me, I don't know. Yeah, nice suggestion. Especially if they're all blogged, it would be a simple thing of having just a list of the events, each of which was a link to the blog that discussed them. Yeah, well, and we've got an easy place to do that here on Discourse on community.jankins.o. We can easily place content there that summarizes. That's what I did with the contributor summit videos. They're all placed on here. And if I just search for it, contributor summit, oops. Okay, so I have to spell correctly. So full sessions here are the links to all the videos, et cetera. And so this site is a great location for us to just put that kind of content comfortably. Yeah, I think SheCodesAfrica is such a cool thing. And it would be nice if people glance, and I see the blog post, it doesn't stick out. It'd be nice if we saw the actual events were sticking out and I could look and see, oh, they're doing hackathons this offer and they're doing things. Yeah, good insight. And you're welcome to submit an enhancement request to the jankins.io site. I think it's a good idea. Recent events would be just as cool as recent blog posts. Yeah. All right, anything else on the Jumbotron change? Okay, next one is upcoming events. So JDK11 transition, we're going to, this is the Docker images. We will switch jankins slash jankins colon latest and jankins slash jankins colon LTS Docker images will use JDK11. Only correct. That's the plan. Yes, right. For the controller. For controller. What about for agents? Controller agent, inbound agent, outbound agent, both. So can I still build my stuff for JDK8 and test it on an agent? Absolutely, because the agent can then invoke Java 8 to do your build. Ah, so the agent is running Java 11 but it can invoke another one. Right, it can invoke Java 8, it can invoke Java 6 if you need. I mean, it can invoke all sorts of things. No reason why the controller would ever do that, right? I don't think so. We really don't want people to build on the controller. Absolutely. Right, yeah. Yeah, so if there is anything else they'd be doing on the controller that they would need a different JDK. Well, okay, there are some use cases but we've acknowledged that we've got to get off Java 8 eventually. Java 8's going to reach end of life and when it reaches end of life, we better have been on Java 11 for a while. Right. I'm just wondering, I just got busted by somebody for having an example of what was calling JDK 8 because we only use Java 11, whether we should put a note that those agents can invoke other JDKs. Yeah, and that we will do and there will be blog posts. Right, okay. Blog posts, upgrade guide, et cetera. There will be all sorts of things there described to say, hey, be aware that this change is happening. You've got to be sensitive to it. Yeah. So this is one that the draft Jenkins Enhancement Proposal document, I'll want review of it. It is, where is it? I should put the link to it. I've got it somewhere here. JDK Java 11. No, Java 11 has Jenkins default JDK. There we go. Okay. So this is the draft document and would be happy to have comments and feedback on it. I've still got an awful lot to do in it. I'll get it done hopefully within the next one to two days and submit it as a formal Jenkins Enhancement Proposal. How much of the rest of the doc is gonna have to, I'm sitting here sweating with my training. How much of the rest of the doc is gonna have to be modified for this? Relatively little. Yeah. So there aren't a lot of places where the documentation is dependent on the specific JDK that you're running that's hosting Jenkins because when we give you a tutorial on how to use Java, we say compile this generic code that works anywhere. When we say, here's a Python tutorial, we're invoking Python without involving Java at all. Or oh, here's a Node.js tutorial. Again, it's using Node in those cases in a Docker image. And likewise with the Java tutorial, we reference a specific Java Docker image. So it's not dependent on which JDK the controller is running at all. That's good, okay. All right, so next topic was DevOps world. So we've got, and for everybody's awareness is September 28th through 30th, and then October one contributor summit. And we have a community track with community speakers. And we look forward to it. And I'm actually one of the speakers, Zinab and I will be talking about the Sheikot Africa and getting open source more widely into Africa. One of the things that we most need there is contributor summit. And this is where we need planning and coordination. I'm happy to take any volunteers promotion. Dheeraj, you say you're willing to assist. Yes. Excellent, thank you, great. And so we'll pattern it now for everybody's info. This is during APAC time zone. So with apologies, Kristen, to you, it's on the other side of the world from your time zone, but right in Dheeraj's time zone and sort of in Meg's. Yeah, I was kind of wondering like what I, I would be willing to help, but I'm not sure what I can do it. It would be a lot of like preset up stuff. Right. We've helped out with other contributors summits just being in rooms to answer questions, but if there's anything like beforehand that I can help with, I'm fine. And that's a good suggestion. So willing to assist as a moderator, Yeah. Right, or facilitator. That's sometimes nice to make sure if someone comes in, I think it was more of a open forum like people could come and go from rooms. So it's nice to have someone there to kind of greet them or to kind of like work as the people who were talking in the room. Nobody ever wants to talk about the fine points of the English language. Yeah, the doctor was a little quiet, but it was nice because, you know, I think the one or two people that did come, it was, yeah, it was very, you know, kind of what can we, or like what are we working on now? It was, so having a good short like bullet list of popular Docs topics is just like a very quick overview. So Romione, if you wanted to join the room is a good idea. That is, that's an excellent one. And this will be exactly day one of the, of Hectover Fest. Perfect. As well. So there's some possibility of saying, hey, we may want to dedicate some portion of it to welcome to Hectover Fest. Here's how you can contribute. Right. Is there anything that's going to be rolling like any type of programs or anything for Jenkins or even like CDF, like that's on, like rolling up to Contributor Summit or is it just kind of the one day? Well, so we'll do, I hope what we'll do is we'll do active promotion of the event. Right. But active promotion event is usually not enough. It will be a, I suspect this time we'll register through a Jenkins online meetup. Okay. Last time we used CDF to handle the registration, they did an awesome job of promoting. Okay. They, the number of registrations was mind boggling. Jenkins online meetup has been our vehicle in the past and then we don't have to make people actually enter data that they may be uncomfortable entering. Right. Okay. Yeah. Good one. Very good. We will host it with Zoom again. So Zoom webinar for the presentations and then Zoom, what do they call them? Breakout rooms. Breakout rooms, yeah. For the discussions in interaction and recruiting, first time recruiting presenters for the user presentations was surprisingly challenging because most people say, oh, I'm not doing anything exotic. And then we listen to them and realize, wow, you've got some cool things going on there. So if you hear of users by all means, help us recruit more people, particularly in Asia Pacific, right? One of the challenges for this is many of the users that talked at the last session, we're all European based and their time zones just don't work for this Asia Pacific presentation. So we need people in Australia, in India, in China, in Japan, in Malaysia. Dhiraj, how much open source activity is there in India? Well, there's a lot due to GSOC mainly. And yes, due to GSOC, there was some engagement from college students side. So yes, there is a lot going on right now. So Meg, to give you an indication, Oleg presented at a webinar hosted by a student team in India and I think there were hundreds of attendees. I mean, literally hundreds of attendees at this event. And it was talking about how to contribute to Jenkins, now we don't get hundreds of attendees to our online meetups, so that we were really impressed. Right. All right, so Hacktoberfest, I've got as a separate topic later, weekly changelog. So Dhiraj, do you have a question you wanna share your screen on or should we look at the poll request? What's your preference? Yes, so I want to share the link on our chat. Okay. So 4478, yes. So I just wanted to know here that there are some, like if you look at bump access, modified annotation from this to this and access modified checker and matrix auth. So which one should I include here and which one should I comment out? So you previously suggested me that I need to look at the same name, its occurrence previously and look at it whether it was previously commented out or written out. So I looked at it was some of them were offering here for the first time. So I was not sure how to decide. Good question. So for me, I would drop those three all from the changelog, but now let's test my assertion because I could just be completely wrong. So let's look at poll request 5630 for instance on Jenkins Core and see if there's something particularly important about that. So closed 5630 is right here. This matrix one was included last time as part of some security release. Ah, okay. All right. And this one's release notes fixes a regression, but really that's already described in the plugin release notes. So I'm okay with this one being in. I think it's just fine. I would also be okay with it being out. The access modifier annotations, I expect those have never been mentioned before. Am I correct there? Okay. So you are suggesting me to not include the modifier annotation and modify check? That was my assumption. I mean, it's harmless. If it's painful work for you, it's perfectly okay to say I'm just leaving it. Oh, I'll do it. It just takes a few minutes. Okay. Yeah. So this one, I think the flaw here was it probably should have been tagged as skip change log, but basil and Ryan did not tag it as skip the change log. And for me, at least I think it would be, that would be a good one to not include. Now the others, the support for JNR, that one's crucial to include as is the terminology cleanup. And yeah, so the only two that were any question for me were access modifier, the two access modifier rules. All the others look great. Should JNR be spelled out or does everybody just know what that is instantly? Ah, good question. Yeah. In general, I mean, there's exceptions, but I don't like acronyms that show up the first time without being spelled out. Yeah. What is Java JNR? I don't even know the expansion. Java native access is the new name for it. Oh, Java native runtime. Yeah, I was thinking actually like the same thing. It's like, I don't know what that is. Yeah, well, and that's the danger, right? Is oh, oh, that's right. This is this evil thing that we've got inside the code to allow us to talk to native things on the hardware, the native things on the operating system. But it's just, and it's really tough because I mean, there's only so many permutations of 26 letters, so a lot of these abbreviations have multiple meanings and it depends. Yeah, well, so let's, here we go. Let's take this excuse to, I'm gonna approve it and put it as an optional comment. Okay, so, okay, as opposed to, now I've got to expand Java, NIO. What is it? Java, NIO, non-blocking I-O, okay. Or a new I-O, it looks underneath. Okay. Yeah, so. If we could be as more official, yeah. Okay, all right, so, so here's the proposed, remove support, removes, remove, support, is it present, if I remember right, the guidance was present tense, so remove support for remove and it's not really a colon, is it? So remove support for JNR, change mod and stat. Should both Java, native runtime and JNR be in parentheses? That looks weird, it should be for native. It could be, if everybody calls it, it could be for native JNR and then have the parentheses expanded. Oh, good, good point, like this, what'd you say? Anything? Right, that's what you're saying, right? As opposed to, as opposed to NIO, to Java, to NIO, Java, non-blocking I-O, something like that. Yeah. Via these, okay, whoops, system property, okay. Remove support for native JNR, change mod and stat, as opposed to NIO, via the system property. V, the system property has, okay, there. Yeah, better, much better. Okay, and now my fixation on sentence per line, okay, okay, good, all right. So, Dheeraj, we did more, I think, than you asked for. To me, this looks great and I think we're ready to go with it. Also, in the last one, internal one, there are two columns, so is that right? There are, oh, oh, good question, right? Usually we would prefer terminal, what if we set it like this? Terminal, I'll get you clean up to fix build time trends, distribution builds. Terminology clean up to fix build time trends. I know it's a hard sentence to read, do I? Yeah, so let's go look at- If I struggle through, does it, okay. Here, let's go find it, let's let you read the original because Daniel's usually quite good with this, so, all right, here is the difference looking at the screenshots. Here's the before, no, what, okay, what's the difference? What should I be seeing differently here? Oh, oh, got it, okay, I'm not sure. So, it looks like what he's done is when it's executing on the built-in node, he removes the name of the node. Let's see if that's correct. If is distributed build enabled? Yes, okay, got it. So, if, oh, no, if is distributed build enabled. Okay, so if- Scroll down a copy. Why is he using master? That's how it used to be, that's what he's removing. Oh, okay. This is him cleaning up the terminology. So, whereas the terminology used to show master, it now says, uh-uh, if we did not, if we, let's see, let's read the logic. If distributed builds are enabled. So, the controller is there, or no, there are agents available. So, if agents are available, then it won't show it. And I think I'm not seeing the proof that I was looking for, but I assumed that, ah, here we go. The selector says pass in distributed build is enabled is true. And this thing says read that. And here's the value for it. And if it exists, then it's going to write that data. So, yeah, so I think what he's saying is, let's go back to his picture. So, this is the, I believe this is the new one where the agent column is removed if the build executed on the controller. Okay. So, now back to the phrasing. Okay. So, he didn't, terminology would clean up would have been a change master's controller. No, no, no, no. In this case, it is a terminology cleanup because he was able to successfully remove the use of the word master. Right. And that really is, that's even an even better cleanup because in this context, it didn't help to show the word master. So, but instead of improved terminology, why isn't it just to remove agent column if build is on the, is on the controller? Yeah. And that, that I'd have to have to, it may be that I'm misunderstanding what he's accomplishing here. Because you're right, that's, if it was only don't show master, but then again, why is it really internal? Okay, wait a second. Why is this flagged? Okay. All right. So, I think we may have an open issue there. This is really, Dheeraj, it's been flagged as internal, but I don't see internal, is that? Oh, no. He says that it's internal only. So, there's nothing to, so since it's internal, that's why you put the internal keyword there. Right, Dheeraj? Yes. Okay. So, it's not internal? No, no, I will, that's, I'm not sure why Daniel said internal only. That's the piece. It seems like he's showing, showing a change that's visible to the user. Go ahead. Is it because maybe that it's part of, and it looks like it was a subset, and maybe most of that PR is addressing something like this already? Was that PR delivered? It was not. This PR is still open. Because I was wondering, this PR is the big one. Okay, because I was maybe wondering if it was covered-ish in that PR already, and this was, and it was like a double word, verbiage. Does that make sense? Like, you don't want to put it twice or, but it hasn't been delivered, that's not good, because then it is, maybe it does need to be mentioned here. Well, but it may be that, I'm misreading the JavaScript because what this is saying is, yeah, okay, I'm just misreading the JavaScript. Let's look at it again. So what the JavaScript says is, where'd it go? Okay, it says, if there are no agents, or if there are agents, then distributed builds are enabled and it's going to show the agent column. So if there are no agents, it won't show an agent column. If I read this JavaScript correctly. So that's back to remove the agents column if builds you're running on the controller. Yeah, I think so. I'm not sure, right? Well, it's, if there are no agents, then we must build on the controller and don't show an agent's column. Don't show an agent column, right? That's my interpretation of what this is. What if there are agents in your rent-a-build due to on the controller anyhow? It will show it and it will say, it will show the name of that agent. In this case, it will show master because that change is a part of this larger change that's still pending. Okay. All right, so back to our, okay, back to our phrasing. So is it, we would remove only show the agent column when agents are configured, are connected to the, are available? No, connected to the controller. The controller has agents connected. Agents defined like that. Yeah, defined because they could be leased. Right, they could be transient. They could be, right. Right, they might not be actually just attached. So is, are you okay with that as a proposal? Okay, so I'm gonna actually approve it. Optional comments for consideration. All right, so Dira, as you can decide if you want, you're welcome to reject both those. You don't have to accept them at all. Anything else on the weekly changelog, Dira Ash? No, nothing else. That was the only doubt. Thanks a lot. Okay, all right. So then one more topic, and this is more of a conversation amongst the group of us, which is there is a proposed pull request here to automate the changelog. Let's see, where is it? Nope, nope, it's in the, is it here? No, it's in the Jenkins core repository. Just a minute. Yes, automate the Jenkins.io changelog. And the reason for the discussion here was, I thought that there was a comment from Daniel that he was concerned, there we go. So this is the one that I wanted to discuss here. He notes, hey, if we're losing the ability to copy edit and curate changelog, why have it? And Tim's response is we can still copy edit, we can copy edit in the pull request and it will preserve the changes. And Daniel's concern was nobody is going to bother doing that. And my thought was, Dira Ash, you and I actually may be quite willing to do that. So what this automation, what this machinery does is it creates the pull request for us and then we can at any time go in and modify or submit additional changes to the pull request. Oh, okay. So it's like how you are commenting on my PR, that's how we will be commenting to this automatically generated PR, right? Yes, yes, exactly. That kind of thing saying, hey, I think it should be phrased this way instead of that way. So how do I deploy automatically? It's just going to make a draft, an automatic draft. Well, it will both create an automatic draft and when we reach release day, we would merge that draft and that would become the official change log. So there's no require, there's nothing that's going to stop an unreviewed change log from getting released. Well, there certainly is in the sense that no pull request is merged without someone saying, I approve this and I'm merging it. Right, right. Right, okay. I kind of like it because it makes it, it's there and automatic, you don't have to worry about generating it. Right, right. There's still, since there is that chance to be able to add comments, it might be easier, simpler. That was my thinking, so okay, good. So I think there are other voices, that's not just me, okay. But the title, this is not really automated, automating the change log, it's automating the first draft of the change log. Correct, I think you've said it well. It's automating the, right now, Dheeraj and before Dheeraj I did and before I did it, Daniel did it, runs a script that assembles the draft of the change log, then Dheeraj will provide copy editing to make sure that it is correctly laid out, that it looks right and you'll paste an image of that revised and copy edited change log in this poll request. What this will do, I think is create the poll request, but then we still have to copy edit it and probably have to paste the image of how it looks. Right, I'm just saying that the title, I mean, I've worked with automated change logs and they are truly automated. Nobody, and so that's what I'm saying, this is not automating the change log, it's automating the draft of the change log. And your statement is correct. This is not a full automation of the change log, this is just proposing a draft that then human beings have the option to copy edit and an expectation that if it's weak, they will copy edit it. Right, and somebody has to approve it before it goes out. Right, so. If they approve it without looking at it, shame on them. Yeah, but we've got that, that's a real problem no matter what, right? Right. Okay, Dheeraj, what's your GitHub username? Dheeraj. So it's a small D. Okay. Dheeraj, O, B-H-A, B-H-A. B-H-A. J-O, right, okay. And two Js or only one J? Only one J. Ah, so you combined the J that's the last word for, okay, got it. Right, and J-O, B-H-A, not B-H-A. J-O, B, whoops, J-O. B-H-A, so it's a J-O, B-H-A. H-A. Did I get it right? No, so in J-O-Dha, you can see it's J-O, B-H-A, right? So it should be J-O, D-H-A instead, right? Got it, thank you. Okay, my dyslexia or my, maybe I'm not dyslexic, but my inability to see the difference between the letter B and the letter D is tragic. All right, let's see. Amen. Stack scribe, Kristen, what's your GitHub ID? So K, what's done? Oh, good, right. Yeah. That's easy, okay. There it is. Perfect, okay. Felt that we would rather do the copy editing, would be willing, willingly do the copy editing, in the pull request from this automation. Okay. So as Meg was telling us about full automation change logs, so this one is not because we need to intervene and edit the priorities of the change logs according to the style guide, right? So that is the only blocker for it becoming a fully automated one, right? Oh, no, I think there is still, there's still a high, well, there are a number of other barriers to full automation. Things like the original pull request doesn't describe it well enough or is badly formatted and the tooling can't extract the comments. There are all sorts of things that can go wrong there, but this feels like a good first step towards automating it, towards that eventual day where we might envision it would be fully automated like released after, well, something even better than released after it does. Okay, so there's my comment and that I think is argument in favor of, hey, we should consider doing this, now I've got to do some more code review and see, all right, is the code working, great. Okay, thank you. I fear we've run out of time and I'm reaching end of my day and my ability to be functional. Would it be okay if we delay our conversations on Hacktoberfest until next week? Sure. Sure. All right, that's it for me then. Anything else as we're coming to the close here? And I may on Hacktoberfest, I may start a separate document possibly in, actually, why not start a separate plan in the, a conversation in community.jankins.io or a Google doc. I've got to think about that a little more because we've got an awful lot of things to do there. All right. Sorry, Duras, did you have another comment? No, nothing from my side. Okay. All right, thanks, everybody. Let's call it in. Thank you very, very much. Enjoy your teacher, Duras.