 Proper camera, why is it off? Nice picture, it's different from the past. OK, I'm confused why my camera is not on, but let me see what I can do. If you have a different app that used a camera, that can do it. So if you have Teams on or something. Yeah, I'm confused. I'm a building, but there's no my camera is not working. Why not any of my cameras working? OK, there you are. Well, my laptop, my laptop is working, but that's not what I look at. Let me see if I can get here is Grover. Welcome. Well, we do see you got stone. OK, all right. Well, I'll leave that for now until I get my other camera set up. Hi, Grover. Hi, Grover. Hi. Waiting for one minute to form. I haven't heard from anybody that they're not coming, except for Paul. I mean, I didn't hear from him, but I'm on vacation or he's taken time off, so I don't expect him at all. And here is Rob. Welcome, Rob. So it's 701. We, as soon as Gaston comes back at least. Yeah, let me hear it. OK. So we have five people, so we can start if we want, or maybe we'll wait a couple of minutes and see if Allegra comes. Nate is in the audience. And Nate is there. Shall we bring him into the room? Greg, did he say anything to you? He's in his car, we understand. He's driving, so I think he just preferred to sort of be on the line over now. So we'll text him if he'd like to. Well, Nate, if you can hear us, we're going to leave you as an attendee. If you want to come into the room, if you have a way to raise your hand or something or other, do it, or else we'll just bring you in the room whether you like it or not if we need you. Hello, Allegra. Hello. So here we are calling a meeting to order at 7.02. And the first thing on our agenda is we have several sets of minutes to look at. I believe that all we have to do is kind of accept the two sets of minutes that are from planning board activities, February 29. They're just notes. They're not exactly kind of formal minutes anyways. And from the small group meeting on the 21st, I would like we can do each of them separately if you want. But I would like to know, can we just accept the meeting, the notes, from the February 29 planning session? If anyone has any objection to that, please say something. And if not, a while, just could take a thumbs up or any kind of way to just make sure that I'm sort of hearing from everybody. I'm not quite seeing what Grover has to say or Gaston. Grover, do you have a concern? No. OK, so we will have accepted minutes from the 29th. How about the 21st? Again, it's just notes from the first small group meeting. Or can we accept those? I see thumbs from everyone up. So we are accepting those minutes. And then the notes, and then the minutes that we have to approve, I think, are the minutes from our previous meeting on the 14th. Are there any comments or concerns about the minutes from the 14th? Doesn't look like it. How about the Gaston? Yeah, I'm looking at the exchange with Tom Reedy. And I guess I wonder if there could be a note that I said his answer was non-responsive. Something like that, basically. I didn't feel like there was as much candor as I would have liked in that exchange about finances. Can you tell us where you are? I'm trying to find out. Yes, I will. Let me see. I am in the middle of, OK, it's the third page of that meeting minutes. And there's a paragraph towards the bottom that says, Gaston asked what the financial equation was. I don't know what exactly we could say. I think we could say, Gaston commented that that didn't answer the question. That seems about right. OK, I remember you saying that. I said that's not relevant. I mean, the cost of building it wasn't relevant to what we were talking about. It was about the income stream. And he didn't answer that question. And neither of them did. So we didn't really get clarity about the question that Paula originally asked, which is why do you want to do this? And I thought it was really interesting that none of the reporting addressed the fact that we asked the planning board to consider the amount. I thought that our motion asset said that. I didn't see that covered in the Gazette or the Indy. Oh, OK. Our motion did, but the paper didn't. I got you, got you. I misunderstood, sorry. Yeah, well, OK. Can we, Mr. Note-Taker, Greg, do you understand enough what Gaston wants to be able to add it? I haven't quite found the place, actually. Yeah, I found it. And I, Gaston, I think I understand that you're hoping we can note that we asked specifically about the income stream. We asked them to clarify the income stream. And the applicant was not responsive to that inquiry. Exactly. After. Yeah. And I just have two things, actually. One is I think Nate might be in the audience, but then the other is I think it's the next page towards the middle. Again, it says Gaston reiterated that the trust had not yet reached clarity of a different payment amount than detailed in the bylaw. I don't know if that fully addresses the fact that we were wondering about more money. But it's a different thing, though. I mean, I think he was talking about us. But in this case, the absence in the notes here, I think, is what Gaston is saying is not highlighting that. They, in fact, did not answer our question about that. OK. Yeah. And I, Allegra, we were saying before, Nate is in a car driving somewhere. OK. So we're kind of leaving him as an attendee unless he does something to let us know he really wants to come or we really need to ask him something and we bring him in the room. So he's kind of a listener at the moment. All right. I apologize. I missed that part. That's OK. No problem. I miss things all the time. So are we, if we make that amendment, which Greg says he can make because he knows where it is, and are we OK with the minutes then as amended? Do we have, are we approving the amended minutes? Again, I'm looking for thumbs. And I see thumbs everywhere. Unanimous approval of the minutes. And I have two other just things that I want to make known. Mindy Dom is going to do some legislative updates herself. She's going to come. Grace is in the, is an attendee now. But Mindy herself will come, but she might not be able to come. It's a particular place in our agenda where we have put those updates. When she shows up without exactly interrupting a particular conversation, but anyways, we will probably adjust the order of the agenda to bring her into the room in a way that is most convenient to both us and her, but to make sure that we get her. And the other thing is that whatever else we move around, we have an update coming from Jessica Allen, and it can't happen before 8 o'clock. So those are some constraints that we're trying to make the agenda work within. And I believe that they probably can. But so if there's nothing else about the minutes that we've just talked about, we can move on to talking about the notes from the first strategic planning process. If anybody has questions, comments, thoughts, we will be having our second meeting this coming Thursday. There are notes there. The next meeting will be 4.18 at 11 AM. Oh, I have one other announcement I realized that I need to make, which is that Karen has, unfortunately, and regrettably from her point of view, had to resign for personal reasons. So we have another vacancy again. But she was very thoughtful in her response and sorry that she was in a situation to have to do, but she thought that she had to. So, yes, is that a hand up? It is. Can I just clarify? Is this plus Paul, who's missing tonight, our full membership then? Am I missing? Yes, so we have now we have two vacancies. We have interviewed someone for one of them, but nothing has happened so far. So, yes. Thank you. OK, we're at quorum. We have a quorum. Yes, here we are. We have six of us. We only need five of us for quorum, I think, so we're we're still good. Thank you. Because we're also dedicated and show up. It's great. So I don't know if anyone has anyone who was at the small meeting, the strategic planning process meeting, has anything that they want to report out? We have a conversation that we will probably have next time and have a longer report at our following meeting. But so if anybody has any questions from looking at the notes that they read or anything we would want our summer of us would be happy to respond. Well, let me just say that that following the meeting. Greg and Shelley started developing goals. So in the meeting, we basically came to consensus that there were there were three main areas of interest that the whole group had identified as potential sources for goals, that is units, funding, and some some way to address the market advocacy, working with you, Mass, that kind of thing. So three main areas, main topics. And the and the draft goals. You know, this is extremely preliminary. And obviously, we're not going to decide what the goals are. We're all going to decide. Small group is not going to decide what the goals are. Is regarding units or development, support the creation of 250 homes portable to people earning below 100 percent AMI over the next few years. That's just a broad goal. We could obviously we should discuss it into we get funding secure four million dollars over the next five years to support the work of the trust. Regarding. The market. We were not really able to come up with a goal that we could define that we could lay out. So so that's that's just a. FYI, we recognize that that was something that the body was interested in, but we're not sure that we can actually come up with something. Thanks, Rob. So obviously it's a work in progress and a rover. At hand up. Yeah, Rob, thank you for that report back. Can you I didn't quite catch. The your final sort of three points of. The specificity of the goals. Can you say what it was for the unit goals? Yep. So the draft proposal is support the creation of 250 homes affordable to people earning below 100 percent AMI over the next five years. Okay. Under that we might have different strategy. Okay. Any other questions or thoughts Erica. I was going to add one of the things Shelly asked us to reconsider is not to create too much specificity around what we might consider priority populations. Because she felt that, and I hate talking for her because I might have misunderstood it, but that it would put us too much in. Pigeon hold us where as it would not give us the flexibility around allowing us for opportunities. And I think I think that's an area where I was struggling. You know, I get the low and the moderate and low income. But I know, you know, there are there are certain priorities that I think are important just in terms of some of the work that the trust has done in the past around seniors around individuals with disabilities, etc. But she just it was just a caution. So I think, you know, the next meeting is going to be really a good robust conversation. About, but she she thought it would be better to have more umbrellas goals and then the strategies could be very specific. But being careful about having a goal have too much specificity in it that it pigeons, you know, it might reduce the opportunities for us. Yeah, I try to have goals that are measurable, but not ending up to feel like they exclude something we haven't thought about that looks really good and comes along. So actually, that's a really good way of putting a Carol, because when we talked about priorities, she said, well, who does that then exclude? And is that going to then get more difficult? Yes, that's I think the more positive way of saying it than the way I said it. Yeah, because so much as we have no in our history, what we ever done so far, so much depends on what opportunities arise that we don't know at the moment, you know, I mean, who knew who knew Valley was going to buy ball lane property, who knew the town and the trust was going to be able to buy the built your town road property and by putting that together with East Street that was going to make it something that would work where it hadn't worked just in the street by itself. It's just all kinds of things that you so much don't know, or some piece of property that right now is a strong street, something happens with strong street. And finally, we can actually do something there and it's not quite maybe what we thought we could, but it still seems like a good thing to do. So, yeah, so I think there's good reason not to cry to get to anyway, that's one of the things we're thinking about. And if people have thoughts about it now, please speak now, or you'll get more chances, of course, but anybody has anything else to say, please do go over. Well, this is, you know, the first time I'm hearing this perspective so it's good that we're having a deeper conversation next week. It was some time to think more about it, but a reaction. I have a reactionary reaction to it in that I think I hear the sense of opportunity and at this like we need to be open to the opportunities that come to us. And at the same time, because the document is creating a sort of structure and vision for the trust in the years ahead and its goal is to be durable even as like if our two co-chairs moved out of there, you know, like as we change up who's on the trust and who's leading, it's still supposed to be the guiding document. And so having more specificity then allows the public and the members to hold that to more account because I could imagine, I could imagine a scenario that I wouldn't feel proud of in the end where we got like a ton of like 80% AMI units and very few low income ones and very few accessible ones. And I feel bummed that that was the outcome. And just also saying that there's a question of who does it exclude, but in the example of disability, a housing unit that is accessible is bill accessible is more accessible for anyone who lives there and any person who's able body now could become disabled at any point. So I see no exclusion and building more accessible units or having that be a goal or naming that as a priority. Thank you. Allegra. So I know that we talk a lot about units and obviously that's important and I'm just, I guess, kind of to go off with Grover says about it'd be really a bummer to have like all the units being the 80 to 100 range, for example, but I was, I've just been thinking about like the affordability of existing units at night. I wonder if there is some creativity and room or if, if there would be a way to again consider if some of our funding could be used towards subsidizing current units that otherwise wouldn't be affordable kind of like the, the, the chunk of change could be used to Craig's doors for the, the people that were exiting shelter. So I just don't know if that could be considered or conceptualized within the idea of units as maybe one of the strategies, if that's something that the trust would agree with. I can't offense you any reason why it couldn't conceivably be a strategy under getting units. But yeah, that's a good point. I'm sorry, I thought you started to say something Grover, I think, and I. It's true, but then I saw someone to talk and he hasn't talked yet. But I do have a direct response to it like a statement. Okay. Is that okay? Okay, so I. Very much like the idea of sort of immediate subsidy to people who are in existing units. And would totally support that being one of our goals. And at the same time, I would be hesitant to put it under the measurement of units. Because when we advocate or fund or support the building of a tax credit affordable unit, it stays affordable in perpetuity whereas giving a subsidy for a year to a person doesn't. So, in terms of the long term impact of that, it's, it's important, but it's not the same. So I just want to create a different bucket or different sub goal in order to measure that. And I would be all for it. So it's like, maybe the goal as a unit, it's. Portability and then it's long term short term. Thanks, both of you. Gaston, did you have something you're trying to say? Yeah, yeah, I mean, I, you know, my mind's always, you know, trying to make this all fit together and it seems like I think that Grover's. Emphasis on, let's keep units meaning units that are permanently affordable. And one of the themes that came up at our last meeting was about the lack of accessibility to even existing affordable units due to process issues. So maybe it's either a subprong or a whole second goal of increasing accessibility and affordability of units in town or something along those lines. The activities about helping people access and that could include the subsidies I guess is in that bucket. Thanks. Did somebody Rob, did you have your hand up. Yeah, so I would say that. So, so there's, there's another set of goals or another goal, which is fundraising raising funds. And one is not subservient to the other. So, so we want to fund it for million dollars or whatever we want, but we decided to so that we can buy funding to Craig's doors or to never not so that we can the first call. Just so that we can do all the other things that are important. Thank you. Anything else or clearly there's an ongoing conversation and if anybody who isn't part of the small group wants to come to the meeting of course you'd be very welcome. We're going to be there at 618th at 11 o'clock. Yes, and it's for an hour. Shelly will be there too. I was going to say, sorry, Carol didn't have my hand up. We're probably going to spend a lot of time in May going over what the subgroup has come up with next Thursday. So, Carol and I, and Greg talked about really putting aside some major amount of time where we can actually come back with what is sort of being just as a draft and then the larger group can look at it beforehand and then we'll have much more time to digest it and provide feedback to it. Yeah, I think there's, I think there's still a lot of work left and so getting even to a draft that's a skeleton of a draft will be something and there'll be a lot of work after that as well. So moving on if I can, we would have now some updates on the status of some other town projects, which I think the first of those is a VFW update, which I believe is coming from Dave. I see that you're there Dave would you like to speak please. Hi. Good evening everybody sorry I was between meetings and just trying to eat a little dinner. That's a good thing to do. I'm here I'm listening but try to get a little dinner and I don't want to steal steal Greg's thunder I know that you wanted to give a little update I think Greg had spoken with Rob Mora. Do you want me to start Greg or do you want to jump in. Um, yeah sure I can share. Yeah, I did catch up with Rob today and the sort of operational update on the VFW project is that we are, I'm told very close to engaging with an architect on that initial sort of short term scoping process which we've discussed. So my understanding is we hope to be in contract with them very soon there's something that's identified I'm not sure if I'm officially empowered to name them yet, but it's a reputable firm familiar with the work, which is, which is very exciting so. So that that step is moving forward which is really cool and that in short order will cascade into sort of working groups and public input sessions etc so that's kind of the first. Step could turn this idea into a more of a concept on paper and then, you know, whatever the 21st century version of paper is, I think that's the, that's the sort of relational update correct Dave. Yeah, we're very, we're very excited. I think easily by your next meeting we will be able to or even via email will be able to announce, soon as we contract with this firm will be able to announce who they are and their experience I think you'll be if all goes well you'll be very pleased because we are kind of ecstatic. And did you want to talk to, did you get any information on demo date for the building I think we wanted to cover, you know, just a little bit of update on demo, the trip to father bills. And then I think there was a question about the site and any, you know, any concerns people might have about using it as a lay down area or any kind of staging area for the Jones so we can take those in that order if you want. Any update. Can I just add that we were also hoping you could give us some vague rough I know idea about timeline, so that we aren't expecting it to be built in the next year and a half because I'm pretty sure it won't and so having some real timeline I know you don't have it all tied down but something like that is an important thing that we would like to know also. Sure, let's let's conclude with that if we could Carol remind me. That's fine. Okay, you get any information, more Korean from Rob. I know we're poised to to demo the building. You know, actually, I, I know we've, we have a contract for that is my understanding but I didn't actually get an update I was more. I kind of figured it was pending like, I think weeks, right, you know, I think it's, I think it's all, you know, it's all contracted and we're ready to go. It'll just be when the demo crew can schedule it and move that building off site so I think we're within weeks of that building coming down. We did all the, you know, looking for asbestos and any other contaminants in the building. And I believe that was, if it hasn't been removed already that'll be removed any of that stuff will be removed before the demo. And so the site will be clean. And then the question about lay down area. I guess we'll save that till the end because that's related to Carol's question about timing. We are scheduled to go down to father bills on Wednesday the 17th. Erica and Carol. I believe Erica is able to go with us. But Carol as a co chair has a conflict. So did you two want to jump in here and talk. Yeah, so we, well, we wanted, I wanted to know we wanted to know if there is a trust member who would like to just one person because they don't want to crowd the van too much. But if there's someone who would like to go with the group and Erica, because since I can't, if there is anyone, please. Please volunteer. Just to give people a sense, because I know you have all have busy schedules, we'd probably be leaving approximately eight in the morning to get down there 101015. We'll probably have about an hour, hour and a half to meet with some of the staff that I almost said Craig's doors at father bills. And by the way, Tim McCarthy and some of his staff will be going with us. So an hour and hour and a half, they need to be done by about 121230. We could grab a quick bite to eat or people bring sandwiches or whatever a little lunch we can turn it right back around and barring major traffic we'll try to get back here by, you know, mid afternoon three o'clock maybe 330 something like that. And we're using will be, I do have a van from the fire department that we're able to take one additional person from the trust. It's kind of the rough schedule and we, you know, we, we'd meet a town hall or something like that we'll work out the fine details here in the next three four days. So if anybody would like to you could be in touch with with Erica or Carol and and we'll make it happen. I think is going I think Rob more plans to go Nate Malloy, Tim McCarthy and a couple of his staff as well. Yeah, so be great if somebody I know it's short notice and a difficult time but if it can work for anybody it would be great if someone else from the trust goes. So, yeah, back to you Dave. So there was a question about, I think in the newspaper a couple three four or five weeks ago there was some reference to the site as a possible lay down area or staging area for the Jones. And I think the town manager is offering that. First off, we don't, we don't know yet bids are not in for the Jones library so that is a step that the town still needs to take I believe bids are due later in April for the library so they'll be, you know, information coming to all of us to the community on how those bids shake out. But in terms of a lay down area, we don't see this I mean, if all goes well with the bids for the Jones. That building will be built before the shelter is built I mean we have this is a horizon here we're probably talking, you know, minimum three years away. And this is what it's going to take, you know, we're talking 10s of millions of dollars to build this building. So we've got a long way to go with funding working through DHCD. I don't have a cost estimate that'll all come out of the work with the designer, but with the with the per unit cost and construction costs, where they are. You know, I would not be surprised if this is a $30 million building. So it's going to take a few years to pull that whole package together, not unlike what it takes wayfinders or a valley CDC to pull together one of their projects. Keep in mind, you know, it's not going to be the town that develops this we we are going to work with you. So we'll be at the table we'll put together an RFP will RFP the site for what we'd like on the site. And we already know there's interest from our partners in the, in the affordable housing and sheltering world so we'll put together an RFP solicit bids interview and select the appropriate firm. And then they will go through a similar process to what street school or, you know, ball lane went through. So it's going to take, you know, some really hard work and advocacy in Boston to get us the appropriate funding so we're a couple of years away, and there should be no problem. We'll be getting off the site with the Jones, any of the Jones work, if needed. So that's kind of where we are. Any questions about the VFW project. Then shall we move on to the new housing production plan that's probably shortly we're trying to find a contractor. Oops, Erica has her hand up. Sorry. I just wanted to say to our trust members that if none of you can make it but you have some really, really good questions for me to ask when we go. That would be very valuable. So please, you know, send send them, you know, the questions to Carol and to me and to Greg, and I'll make sure that I get answers. And I'm hoping that there'll be a possibility of maybe taking some pictures. I know, you know, confidentiality is be important if they're if their clients there but just a really good a good sense of how they developed their site and the sustainable funding that they're making to maintain father bills will be important to understand. Carol, if I could before you move on, maybe I missed this because I joined a few minutes late. Did you are aware of the planning board's decision last night for Barry Roberts project was that on your agenda so it's going to be an announcement later but go ahead announce it now. I think Greg you're you're in the know about that right. Sure, I am. I'm happy to update on that so the planning board did approve the special permit. I did also permit last night for the South Pleasant Street Hastings building project which our group discussed at our last formal meeting of the group, and they did approve the payment of the inclusionary units as well. That the understanding of the number that was approved was was reflected in the bylaws. Unfortunately, it was not a larger number than that. It was not a precise language but my understanding is they left the door open for the applicant to informally offer additional supports or additional funds but that but but that's not an enforceable component but what's enforceable is by the bylaw and I think that number is 1.2 and change is my recollection. That's exciting and my understanding is as per the bylaw the the routing of those funds needs to come before their certificate of occupancy for the for the the market rate building, meaning at the end of construction is you know and that's that's kind of what's written down, perhaps it could be sooner than that, but I think we could require that not be later. I'll wait for you to go. The other thing I was just going to add is this project is very much on a fast track so demolition is beginning in the next five, five days so what I'm going to add is you know the the payment won't actually come for for a while but Barry Roberts and his team are really moving quickly now that they have their approval so the the old parts of the building will come down as per the I believe fencing will start going up tomorrow or Saturday morning so you will see fencing up there construction fencing and they'll go from I think demo is probably a three to five day period and then they begin the building of the of the new unit so anyway just so you know it's not that one's not going to be yours in the making so that payment is is going to be moving more quickly than than I think any of us thought so that's all. Interestingly, it is always quicker to build something if you don't have to make it affordable and go through all kinds of financing who are in order to get there ho ho ho. Gaston did you have something to say. Yeah, I was just I'd like to request feedback about the extent to which the planning board did what we asked them to which was to study the the amount, rather than just take it from the bylaw. I can answer to that. There's Nate was there he's probably the best person. He's got his hand up so speak Nate. I'll make something up. They are. Yeah, it was kind of interesting. Tom really had said that as you know representing the applicant that they would be willing to pay more. You know some of the planning board members felt that the bylaw didn't have the flexibility to require more. And so I said well that could be a finding of the special permit right so you know you can you can find that it's justifiable because of the current cost of construction the location size of units. But some members would feel comfortable with that just because of the technicality of the way the bylaw is written and so some of them said well if you want to make it more you have to change the bylaw language and I was like well sure that I will. So I think we should actually recommend a revision to the inclusionary zoning bylaw like you know, it could be done in a week and then we could try to get it through. You know the planning staff had recommended 600,000 a unit, you know for a $1.8 million payment. The applicants thought that was a little much, and they really you know wanted to know if the idea was you know a one for one total development cost per unit and I said that was the idea when this was generated. And so it could leverage more than you know the three units is that you know if we were to go out and have to purchase a property and then build three units, especially in downtown is going to cost more than 1.1 million. But they felt that the language in the bylaw wasn't. And so the condition reads that they will provide that amount with the encouragement that the applicant, you know, pay more and so I have to talk to Chris and Rob tomorrow staff and just see what, what they would be willing to do so I mean Tom really still kind of said well yeah maybe like 1.4 1.5 million, but you know it's somewhat, you know they're not obligated to so there was some discussion you know wayfinders pro forma for the project in East Amherst you know it's about 550 unit. You know they kind of question what the costs were. I still think that you know there's some discrepancy about how you figure out what the value of a unit is right and so you know I was saying that it's a 10 to 12 year payback maybe less they're still saying it's a 20 to 22 year payback. And I disagree because once the buildings built if you take the value of what the rents are, and you just say what, you know, gross numbers what is it going to be, you know after so many years there, you know that payment is made, especially with the commission 2250 for a one bedroom or 2300 for a one bedroom going higher so yeah I mean the planning would actually discuss this for a bit you know they like I said they. I think if the bylaw was written in a way that they could allow it they would have but they didn't feel like they had that authority to make that a condition so I think for me. The end of the day as we should revise the bylaw, you know change the formula a bit you know they talked about like you know what if it's different unit sizes and what have you and so I think we need to have some language to allow flexibility. They did understand that the trust, you know I said that you pull less around a payment pretty quickly, in part because you know it's great to capitalize the trust there's flexibility in those funds, and that you know there's other ways to get affordable unit so the loss of three affordable units could be leveraged to get more. And so you know they didn't. One of the members actually said you know well should we just require these units if they're so valuable, but the board, you know they respected the recommendations from the trust and they didn't they didn't necessarily think that that was the case but you know every time there's a request for this it is a special permit and there's no precedent setting, you know, basis and so, you know, if it comes up on a next project it's not like well because they, you recommended and they recommended, or allowed a payment and knew that they need to follow the same course of action and so I think that, you know, as it moves forward I think it you know everyone can make you know that decision on a project basis but. Thanks Nate. Grover. I saw this song was actually unmuted first. Do you want to go. I never muted myself again but my follow up just was, and I guess Nate and company, who is communicating to the town council to share this experience so they can process it and make any change they desire. Yeah, so I mean it's something that I was going to talk to staff about you know if it you know who sponsors that zoning amendment. You know it could be a really simple thing. I've often said that maybe we should have another tier of affordability in the inclusionary zoning so that you know we, we have a 12% calculation if there's you know, basically 20 more units but could we have a 13 to 20% you know or up, you know some difference that goes up to a certain am I or restructure it or. So, you know I think if we're doing that it might be a chance to say what else would we want to consider. In terms I think that, you know just 10 or 12% of the units is not a big enough percentage and it hasn't deterred development in a way that when we first did this we thought it might you know some. There was some concern that if you have to I a percentage of affordable units you actually then discouraged development but I don't think the market is swayed yet by that number so you know can we. We have a few adjustments, and you know the idea right with Council now is that Town Council that we could be a little bit quicker in terms of a zoning amendment so if we think that those other pieces are going to bog down this one amendment we could just make a change to the payment and loop provision while we're looking at other things so I think it can happen quickly it's just the next it will go through a process but I you know I'd like to get that moving actually just on the kind of fresh on the heels of this. My question is following up on that related so can you give us a sense they have like the next three steps of how that would happen so you know like. Yeah sounds like your team is discussing it and then what you you take it to a council member to sponsor it you propose it yourself. No no I would I would ask that the planning board sponsor it. And so that you know they're they're a name body that can bring in a zoning amendment forward otherwise it would go to council but then they refer you know it could be a more circuitous route so if the planning board. You know actually would you know, I think they kind of said it rhetorically like oh revise the bylaw but I'm thinking well, if it's a really simple change. You know they might ask some more questions about how do we justify what the amount is but to me it's kind of like the bylaw says you know shall provide a payment and to me it's like you could just put in some little phrases like. Adam you know provide at a minimum, but could be greater than you know something and then that just allows that so it's like you know it could be a really simple amendment. So yeah so I would talk it over with the building commissioner and planning director, see if we can get in front of the planning board at their next meeting, which there's going to be next week but they're taking a week off so it'll be you know in a few weeks and then go from there and so you know if they agree to it, then they would recommend it to the bylaw and then they would have a first reading and it would be referred to you know if you would you know subcommittees of them in the planning board again and then come back. But you know it, even if a quick amendment would you know it's a few months right there's a number of steps it has to follow but anybody else I guess I would like to suggest trying to do the simplest possible amendment and worry about all the rest of the stuff later just put in at least and more than case but whatever the amendment so it so it leaves the possibility it leaves the floor where it is, but it creates a possibility to do more so the planning board doesn't have to feel like they don't have the authority to do more if they want. That's the simplest thing worry about doing more than that later but if you can take that to the planning board, I at least personally encourage you. I don't see anybody sort of disagreeing with that here right now Allegra. I think I agree with you Carol but I also think it would be, and maybe this requires more thought and planning but I do think it would be helpful to maybe increase the percentage of units. Given the fact that we have seen this hasn't deterred development as of the yet. So I don't know if that would again be another easy fix to say like from 12 to 17 or whatever it is that we choose to. I mean, that seems like a weird number but it's the one that came out of my mouth so. Let's go with it. Yeah, perfect 1717% let's do it. Also, I don't know if this. Without all the language and the bylaws in front of me I can't spell it out but I'd also like to know where or if it's if it's this bylaw or different bylaw, we can get stronger. Accountability about the time to fill the units and the collaboration about that because what we were hearing from them about the affordable units standing empty while. Wayfinders and Valley fills their units like the minute they're open. I would like to find a solution to that so I don't know if the bylaw is the appropriate place for that or not I'd be curious to do anything. I don't I don't think the bylaw is an appropriate place for that. We could put it in rules and regs. I mean often it's become a, like I said we can benchmark it up until occupancy so we do require, you know the regulatory agreement to be reported we require you know a number of things. And with inclusionary units so that we know it's happening right so, but then after occupancy it's really hard to have. We could say you know some condition about that. But you know to be in the bylaw seems a little strange. I will say that when Gabrielle spoke to the trust and said that you know there's all these units that are vacant. It was a little misleading because 11 to 13 he's pleasant is going through marketing right now it's not as if the units have been vacant for years right they actually just got their TCO, you know a few months ago. Marketing was following right along and Centuries Commons on Main Street, you know, has three affordable units and one of them was going through marketing late winner. And so to say that there's 15 units yeah there's I think 16 units downtown, but you know 13 of those have been going through marketing, you know, in February and March and so to me it's not as if they've been vacant for, you know, a year. I do think that there is, like I said I think there are some, you know problems I think it's probably statewide that, you know affordable units, especially if it's not, you know through a comprehensive permit or has some other other subsidies or, you know it's not part of another project that in these you know the, the property owners and managers can still have additional threshold requirements for tenants so even if they're income eligible, they may not be able to pass the other things and so. So that's part of maybe an education or outreach component. You know, or we change our inclusionary zoning by a lot so it's a lower amount to match a sub you know the voucher subsidy. Again, that becomes like a bigger question it's not you know, so I have a number of ideas right for inclusionary zoning but it's not the simple one we just talked about payment lieu but you know it doesn't have to be 80% in the bylaw we do say a maximum of 80 everyone chooses to go 80, you know it's like what if we said the maximum has to be less than the payment standard. It's still eligible and Amherst on the SHI, and it would allow a voucher holder. But yeah so anyways I do yeah I think that conversation though that Gabriel said I think it was it's a good one I think it's something Greg and I have talked about researching like what is the structural issues there is it. You know is what what you know exactly is it additional requirements that are outside the lottery is it something we could discuss with property owners and managers. But I think having the bylaw is tricky because you know we can't really control that necessarily with the bylaw we can't you know I don't. I think I could talk to staff about it but everything I've seen that's something that's left to you know another piece of a regulation whether it's rules and rags or. I'm going to ask you to end this conversation since actually we're talking about something that was an announcement of a good thing and we've gotten into a whole bunch of other stuff which is all interesting and good and we should come back to and yes we should. Work on it we can keep this somehow on an agenda going forward how do we amend the inclusionary zoning bylaw to get more of what we want out of it. Very good topic but I think we might stop now we have one more one thing that short I think I just said unless there's anything else there. Is trying to get another contractor for the housing production plan there may be some progress in that or not. The other thing is I know Dave is going to tell us something about the cross the prospects of meeting with UMass. So Dave you want to go through those couple things. Sure was it just the UMass piece was there another one there Carol do they. I don't think unless there's more to say than that you're looking for another contractor for the housing production plan than that and I just said it if there's something else please add it but if that's it then you don't have to say it. Yeah, I don't have any more on that okay later Greg may be more involved in that but Nate is shaking his head saying no new updates on that. Yeah so just do the UMass thing and then we'll move on. In terms of UMass I know the trust heard from Nancy Buffon and Tony Merulis some couple of months ago maybe two and a half three months ago. I did reach out to them via your your request to me. And I think the response was, it was, it was honest it was upfront. It was. It was very specific what they are not in a position I guess would be the best way to say it they're not in a position they don't feel they're not in a position to meet with the trust or members of the trust. My feeling is there is a structure set up within town that has the town manager and his staff meeting with representatives leadership at the university and this is all laid out in the strategic partnership agreement. And their feeling is, if there are discussions to be had, they should take place through leadership in the town. And I think their, I don't think it was their concern but they were, they do not routinely meet with members of committees they don't meet with the conservation commission they don't meet with the planning board they don't meet with the, you know, the, the other other boards and committees in town they don't meet with the town council that is done via the town manager to leadership at UMass. And then to a couple of things one is through the in this strategic partnership agreement. It specifically calls out meetings on a couple of topics, such as housing and economic development are two that are called out in the strategic partnership agreement. They're very willing to meet with town manager, myself, Nate, the planning director on a staff level, and we're happy to bring any ideas, concerns, questions you have to those meetings and then report back to you. But, and by the way they're more than happy to come to future meetings of this body. They're also willing to come to any strategic housing meetings you might have as you think about your strategic plan and the housing production plan. But I think they are not in a position to meet with the trust or members of the trust at that level. So that was the quick summary. Dave, I just want to add at least I thought when you were saying it to us before part of it was that they didn't want to meet in non public meetings with us so they would meet with all of us in a public meeting. They didn't want to have like behind the scenes things going on with the trust or any other committee. That is very true. Yeah, okay. That is very true. I forgot that. Thank you for jogging my memory. It's been a couple three to four weeks now since I had that conversation with them. But that is, yeah, yeah, as I said, they're happy to meet with you in these meetings. They're happy to come to strategic planning meetings that you might invite them other for profit nonprofit developers and the community to talk about housing both affordable and and our housing crisis, but it's just the kind of private meetings with a committee that they did not know they were comfortable doing. But again, I'm a conduit by which you can vote and Paul is usually here. We are conduits by which you can bring your concerns and or questions. And we can take those to UMass in these periodic I think we're, I can't remember off the top of my head but the strategic partnership agreement calls for us to meet. I want to say quarterly or a few times a year I can't recall specifically on those various topics. So here it is, you know, a first part of April we're due to have such a meeting so I'm happy to bring. If the trust wanted to have a discussion on one of their meetings, develop questions or you could send them directly to me and we will be scheduling a meeting on various topics with UMass coming up very soon. Um, so yeah, I'm not sure that we can write this minute sit here and make that list. I think that we would like that opportunity very much. I'm sure at least I would and so let's see what Gaston on and then Erica has to say. Yeah, thank you very much Dave I mean my my question was basically going to be about where you ended, which is, how can we just institutionalize that opportunity for us to think exactly what we want to bring to you to bring to that meeting. And so you said the next meeting is April. What day, I didn't give a specific date for when we're meeting with UMass that hasn't been set yet but here we are on the 11th of April, and we're, we're due to schedule that meeting so I think anytime now if you wanted to, I don't know when you all meet once a month you can even get those, you know you can have this as an agenda item next meeting. If that was the proper way to do it, where you could go through your staff members and have, you can't deliberate on the, well you can deliberate on these questions in public but if you wanted to send questions individually to Greg or Nate I think you could do that, you could do it that way too and that would be a little faster to be honest, as opposed to waiting till your main meeting. Well, as long as it's before your meeting it doesn't matter so much. So I would think it's a great thing to put on our next agenda so long as I mean you have been having those meetings every quarter you've been you're following the plan. We actually meet with UMass once a week so we have regular meetings with them we have not had a meeting in 2024 where we focus specifically on housing so that's why I'm saying we're, we're due to have that I don't have a date yet the sooner you can. Yeah. Formulate some questions, the better so it's if it's at your next meeting that's fine. So the other thing is I'm looking for the 2023 partnership agreement I can't find it on the website. I'm finding only 2015 what I wonder if we could get in the new. Yeah, I'm sure Nate or Greg could dig that up on the website and send it to you all. Yeah, thank you. That's a good idea. And then Greg. Thanks. So, I agree we need to meet, because I think in the past we've talked about a lot of things that we would love to have a conversation at least recommend, such as the possibility of surplus land or land that they could identify where we could maybe partner around both student and faculty housing. We talked about the possibility of making some issues either about enrollment caps, or at least getting an agreement that if the enrollment caps are moving that the town should be notified if it's going to impact off campus housing or policy issues such as when they made the decision around allowing sophomores to go off campus where you know the town should be notified. And then use of you know their facilities is that something that or other things that they can give back to the town to allow the town a little bit more benefit of having them, and then just thinking about how we can actually come to sort of a partnership agreement that we both want the same things which is that we want to have accessible housing for student and faculty, but not have such a negative impact on the community here which I'm sure that's also their goal as well. So yes, we do need to meet. I'm wondering if may is going to be a little tough because we're already having a whole bunch of other agenda items and I'd be willing to meet with people beforehand. But it sounds to me that the town's meeting every week as well. So it may not be that necessary to expedite a conversation. It's clear we don't meet every week on housing we meet every week on a range of topics, but this could easily be one of them. You know, again I would I would wait for your input, however you gather it, and then we I would schedule this discussion. I'm, I'm well great first. I'm just going to maybe propose a potential process there. Certainly folks can email questions inquiries whatever directly to me. I could synthesize all of those and then we could look at them, you know, that synthesized product, maybe in a relatively tighter window and a meeting to sort of confirm this kind of, you know, what the, you know, what the collective desire is to understand from them and then we can transmit that to Dave. Is that a process that makes sense. So if what we agree to is that whatever suggestions any of us have we will email them to Greg Greg will put something together for us and we will bring it to the main meeting. And we will fit it in and I think that if the town and the in the UMass or meeting weekly that we there's not only this once a quarter opportunity it seems to me that if you're meeting weekly I couldn't you Dave say we would like to have the next meeting or the meeting of bloody blah be about housing we've got some questions and we'd like to address them with you do you can you do something like that if you feel like it. We can we're you know so this is what I don't know. Yeah, the one thing I would add Carol is what I would probably see our process as staff being is. If you would get this list, I would meet with Nate and Greg and perhaps, you know, Chris Brester of our planning director perhaps Rob more we get in a room. We'd kind of come up with what is from from the broad towns perspective and and what questions do we have as well. And we would probably want to get in a room or get in get on a zoom call with not only Tony and Nancy but some of the planning staff and the physical plant staff who make those decisions about kind of master plan level decisions on the UMass campus apropos of what Erica mentioned, you know the governor has has made it clear that all state agencies to should look, given our housing crisis statewide should look at all of their land and assess whether they have any land that they feel they can surplus or use for housing. I can tell you how many meetings I was in with the former chancellor with Swami where he said, you know, one of my big focus points is housing for faculty staff and students, and he achieved some of that in his time, and you know, we have, you know, we have the Commonwealth College and we have fieldstone as part of Swami's legacy, you know, hundreds of units on campus for both undergrads and graduates, and I forgot also the re the project they did on North Pleasant Street that used to be. What was it called the University Park know I forgot the new name of it but the new graduate student housing that they completely redid demoed and redid top to top to bottom off of North Pleasant Street, and they renamed it University Park University College village there we go thank you like so those were all Swami part of Swami's legacy but we need to continue so. So we have I think we have opportunities to do that we have a we have a defined I believe process right now for what we're going to do. So, unless there's something else that someone desperately needs to say right now, I would like to move on. And move on by turning I see that Jessica both Jessica Allen and Laura Baker and the Allen Jessica was going to give us some information. And I'm going to turn the meeting over to Erica. Thank you very much Carol. So we want to report on current projects and we had asked Jessica Allen, and she is joined by Laura Baker to join us in the room, and to announce the wonderful news that the ZBA has approved the community the community homes so one we also asked her to talk to us about how we can continue to support the project moving forward but we're very excited to have Jessica here. Who is the real estate project manager and has done actually a wonderful job in outreach to the community, both with site tours and just making sure that the community is involved in any concerns or any ideas about design and making sure that it's a you know welcoming development here and the last thing I'm going to say is I live in North Amherst and we're so excited about this project so thank you Jessica. Sure thanks for the invite I really appreciate it. I love talking about this project so I'm happy to have an audience who wants to listen to it. There's been a lot that's happened. I think since the last time that we've seen one another. So the big news is that we received our permit from the zoning board of appeals. After about a seven month process we filed the permits in August our first hearing was in October and we wrapped up in March so that was huge that's awesome. The decision has yet to be filed with the town clerk I understand that it will likely happen tomorrow. The town's deadline is Wednesday so it will certainly happen before then. Next Wednesday and once it's filed with the town clerk then the appeal period clock starts and we have 20 days hopefully nobody will come out of the woodwork. So once that appeal periods over were kind of free and clear from the permitting side we also went through a permitting process with the conservation commission since there were sweatlands on the site. And so that permit was granted prior to the ZBA so ZBA wouldn't button theirs up until concom was done. So that is the big the big news to celebrate. And that that that piece is over, but we do have a lot of work that we need to do over the next year before we start getting into construction so. Big picture in the big goal is that we'll be breaking ground next spring so that's what we're targeting in order for us to do that there's a lot that needs to happen. So that most most communities don't see sort of behind the scenes sausage making of this aspect so again I'm thrilled that you're interested and excited and want to hear more about it. So there's kind of like a couple big pieces that are moving forward so one is the marketing piece. So we have been in conversations with two, two companies, one is DVM housing, and the other is OVI our village initiative and so these are two businesses that are owned by women of color. DVM is she is a real estate developer she's been working in the affordable housing realm for a long time. She worked at a CDC. In Boston area, and she and we were partnered up with them or at least introduced to them through the Commonwealth Builders program they had been partnered with other Commonwealth Builder developers in Boston and Roxbury and they do a really amazing job of sort of partnering that marketing piece to, to households of color, and also understanding that financial literacy is a huge part of getting somebody to be a homeowner. So OVI is mission is that financial literacy piece and we've been talking internally about using financial literacy and getting people queued up and using that as a marketing opportunity so that folks are able to qualify for mortgage because there are there are some requirements in order to be able to even be entered into the lottery. So you need to be a first time home buyer, you need to be able to qualify for a standard mortgage, which means you need to have a credit score over 660 right now. And you need to have assets that are less than $100,000, you need to be able to provide closing costs, and you need to be able to put at least 3% down for down payment. So those are requirements of the program so anybody who's going to be purchasing needs to hit those benchmarks. And so when we have conversations about households of color and understanding their financial capacity and the education that has been typically done in those communities. They're a little bit behind. And so we are partnering with OVI to help with that educational piece to get people to understand what does it take to buy a house. What are the pieces that you need to have the plate in place and OVI does a fantastic job of kind of hand holding somebody through that process so it's not like just a one off like, here's what you need to do here's a one off workshop. They have monthly workshops every month. They do check ins with individuals and so our concept really is to try to do the lottery process as early as possible. Before we even have buildings in place. So as construction starts we start that lottery process then giving people adequate time to get their financial ducks in order so getting that down payment money set aside making sure they have money for closing costs. And so, so we're really excited like this is a kind of innovative way to approach this is to do it that early and they've been, they've been looking to kind of test that aspect of this they haven't been able to do that due to city of Boston regulations. So this will be for them it's exciting opportunity to get people a little bit more ahead of the game with that marketing piece. You have a question. Yes. Sorry, I couldn't find my unmute button. That's okay. So it sounds like people who might be interested should be like on it right now, trying to get some of these ducks in a row. So what we, we actually had a meeting with them today and we need to, we need to work out our timeline and basically using like our end or start of construction and working back from that so that is what we're working on right now. We're thinking that we need to start doing initial marketing seven and nine months before we even start construction to at least get people a little bit more familiar with that financial literacy piece wealth building what does that mean. What is a credit score how do you get there and so working on getting somebody so that they can qualify for that mortgage when the lottery hits because we want people to have that piece of paper from the bank that says yes they can at least qualify for the mortgage in order to even participate in the lottery process so backing that up and saying how are we going to get somebody there so that when we do the lottery, they're ready to go. And OVI has a lot of modules already in place that they can they can pull from and they've done this before so so that's really exciting. I'm just going to like harp on ARPA one last time. I know I do that a lot but I'm wondering if there's any way that the remaining ARPA funds that we have in the affordable housing pot. There's a way to earmark to say, we want some of this to be used for down payment assistance and this is maybe not as much a question to Jessica as a question to either Nate or Greg or I guess Dave is gone but again plant is just just wondering. I think that's a great point we've often we brought up at the ZBA process the reparations assembly, and that they had they had discussed as one of the reparations payouts would be for down payment assistance. And so I don't know what the process is going to be for somebody to prove that they're able to qualify for reparations I'm not sure if that's actually been figured out yet. But, you know, it would be nice to have that in place for an option for folks who are who are purchasing in this development so. So that's again something to sort of think about. Jessica. Yeah, I think ARPA will just we can let staff know there might be some funds, they have to be encumbered or in an account by the end of this year, this calendar year, and then spent by 26 I think as the latest. We have to do it some we have to expenditure benchmarks before then, which I don't think will be a problem townwide I don't know if you have to do it by each category but. You know, between a few different projects we you know staff has talked about how we could allocate the remaining housing money but between wayfinders and what's already been kind of allocated and what could happen to say with bfw. There may not be a lot of funds left over. There could be other ARPA funds you know from other areas. There may not be any buckets or categories but in terms of the housing piece there's actually there may not be a lot. But yeah, and I think that's a good idea so it's something I'll just, you know, actually I was just going to email started to Dave and put it out there. Erica you had a question. Thank you. This sounds fantastic in terms of the organizations you're working within their experience. What are some of the plans in terms of maybe working with the African heritage of operation assembly or with the human rights committee or with Jennifer moist and to really get that information out to communities of color here in Amherst. Great question. So, my colleague to Anisha wind bush who is working with us at valley she is a fellow that is she has been placed with us as a host organization for the for two years. She's been with us for about six months. She's a fellow through the program through op co in Boston which is for developers of affordable housing equitable development so it's it's targeted to increasing people of color within the affordable housing development realm. So she is been placed with us and she has been placed in charge of doing boots on the ground outreach for this so she has already started to compile a database of community community areas black owned businesses. She watched all the recent videos of the black business association in Amherst. And so she's starting to put a database together. This is one thing where I think we could use some assistance from members of the community is if you have individuals that you think would be worthwhile for us to do some boots on the ground contact with another thing that we're actually looking for our community events or cultural events that are being held in communities of color. And that we would actually just be there handing out flyers saying we have this upcoming project or we have these developments or there's this literacy training. You know, starting again we're having these initial conversations with DVM and OVI to sort of figure out what that messaging is in the timeline and all but that was one thing. Another thing we talked about today is being representing or being at cultural events or community events to hand out information and going to people rather than expecting people to come to us. So, again, if there's any cultural events, I mean, I'm aware of the North Amherst barbecue because we attended that for the design aspect that's, you know, the one community event that I am aware of it happens in September. But again, like if you've got community events that you want us to be aware of or you think it would be great for us to be representing it. Please pass that information along and I will give it to Anisha and she will start organizing that boots on the ground messaging with DVM and OVI. So, so that's part of it. We're also looking outside Amherst. I mean, as you know, there is a local preference that has been part of the permit decision here for the 7 of the 80% AMI homes. So, the rest of the homes are open to anybody who is an appropriately sized home, a household for the home is the first tier of marketing priority. And then second is anybody living in a qualified census tract. So that is income qualified. So we will be targeting outreach in those qualified census tracks throughout the region as well. So, again, any information you might want to pass on to us in terms of people that we should be contacting that to Anisha should be having individual meetings with please pass that along. We would love to have that information that would be super helpful. So, I just sent you a link to the power that's going to happen in May. I think that's going to be really important, especially for individuals from the Native American community, which seemed to be most underrepresented when it comes to housing. But I do have some contacts that I'll try to get their names to you. And then there's also the Juneteenth event that usually happens, which I think is another big one. But I think all of us should put our heads together and get as many people as we can to send contacts to you that you can do outreach to. That would be great. That would be great. That's awesome. Yeah, that would really be super helpful for us. So that's the marketing piece. Yeah, go ahead, Nate. You have a question. No, let's say we're we Greg and I were talking today and I guess the town manager's office keeps a list of events. And so, you know, we could reach out to Angela or Jessica if you did and copy Gregor myself but I think they, you know, they're trying to get a calendar together for the next few months and so, you know, like, you know, right. So whether it's school events or community events, there might, I think there's, I was told that there's some list that's being formulated. So, okay. Does that go on like the town's website calendar or something? Is that part of the, I think that's where it'll end up. I was just looking. I don't see anything that's consolidated and easy to look at once. So Angela is the point of contact for us. I was told, but okay. We can look into it too for you. That would be awesome. Yeah, that would be great. So that's, I think it on marketing unless anybody has any other questions about marketing lottery timeline, our partnership, the financial literacy piece. Trying to think if there's anything else in that bucket that I should touch on. I think that's about it. So then the other aspect of it that we will be doing here in 2024 is trying to button up our financing. So we've had initial pricing from Kiter builders. They were kind enough to give us to take the permitting plan. So they're not fully, you know, full architectural plans, but what we submitted for permitting and to do some preliminary cost estimates. The cost per square foot is coming in higher than what we had initially budgeted. The range, the low range was 332 a square foot and the high range was 406 a square foot. And we were budgeting at around 329 a square foot. So already we know that there's going to be a gap in our budget due to construction costs. And that's just a preliminary estimate. This isn't like our final construction number. So, you know, as we start sharpening our pencils, do we need to start value engineering certain things out in order to hit our budget? That's not really what we want to do. We feel like we've presented a really wonderful plan that we want to stick to. So, you know, one of the first things that would might have to go if we run into budget issues is the solar panels. So, you know, we would intend to wire for them, but we might not have the funding in order to actually install them. So that would be, you know, $360,000 that we could cut out of the budget if we needed to, but that is not ideal. Not the way that we want to go. So we're looking at different grants or trying to find different financing. So what makes this a little bit tricky is that Commonwealth builders in the requirements says you cannot go to HLC for any other funding. You cannot request any soft debt funding from HLC. It's against the rules of Commonwealth builders. So there isn't a lot of matching money that we can really go to. The town has provided a significant amount of money, which is awesome. We, you know, we'll be getting some revenue from sales of the homes and those home sale prices are going to be set by mass housing based on where the household income numbers are at the time where the interest rate numbers are at the time. What we think our condo fees are going to be what those real numbers are going to be once we start really pricing those out. So, I suspect that we're going to have a gap in our budget that we need to fill. We may be coming back to the trust if we cannot find that fill that gap in other ways. So I just wanted to sort of lay that groundwork that you may see us coming for a funding request once we really kind of sharpen our pencils and figure out. And if we're, you know, able to tap into other grants and other resources in order to fill this gap. So that's, so that's that piece. So we will hopefully be going into a contract with the GC within the next couple months. And then we'll start really finalizing that getting our application into Commonwealth builders finalizing that set of funding. And hopefully going into financial closing construction closing so that we can be shovels in the ground by next spring. So we have a lot of work ahead of us in the next several months. But I'm confident that we're going to get there and we're going to do it. Just going to take some, some blood, sweat and tears in order to get there. But all these projects do so. Thank you so much, Jessica. Does anybody have any comments questions, Nate? Yeah, I just had a question. How come the square foot is so high? I just, is it also considered trying to get like passive house or. I know with the new energy code, there's some things but seems really high to be honest. That's the cost of construction. I mean, that's actually low. We have some builds that are coming in at $600 a square foot. So, you know, that is the cost of construction these days. And we are not really building anything super fancy. Yes, we have all electric utilities. But this is a pretty straightforward build, but this is the cost of construction. This is what it costs. So. Yeah, I mean, the building commissioner, you know, will has projects and we've talked about it, but, you know, I was just doing some math on a spec home right now and it's like 315 a square foot. And so I don't know, I just, is it, you know, does, is this also factor in like the site work? I just, it's just, yeah, it's everything. Yeah, it's just, it is. I know it's just really expensive. And so it's hard to say that, you know, the cost of a 1200 square foot home is half a million dollars. That's just. That's the cost of construction. I mean, and if you remember, we had initially kind of come in here thinking we wanted to do some market rate homes in addition to affordable. We found that the cost of construction was higher than what the market could support to sell them. So that's why we pivoted and moved to a full 100% affordable model. That was not how we started, but that's how the numbers were running. So. Thanks. Sure. Thank you. Anything else from anybody. No. Okay, thank you. So very much and congratulations. Yeah, congratulations to us as well, because it's our community getting this. Thank you for all of your support and all of the letters of support that you wrote and submitted during the permitting process. We did not have 1. Negative letter against the project. We had only, I think we had 18 letters of support. So, you know, so that's just awesome. It's really exciting when, when that happens and we owe a lot to the trust for your support during this process. So. Yeah, you should also take credit for the amount of groundwork that you've done in the community. It was great to be at that district. Thank you for having us here today. Just to show you the way that you're doing. I'm going to go ahead and barbecue and see the way you elicited people's input and putting out those little, you know, models. That was fun, wasn't it? Yeah. The site tour was phenomenal. So you really are exemplary in terms of the outreach that you do. Thank you. So thank you. on to Wayfinders, South East Street and Belcher Town Road, the state project eligibility determination. They are now in the public comment period. I think the 30 days has already started. Greg, I know you're just about to say something, but I was just gonna say one more thing, which is two things I'm gonna say. One is if you're looking to put in your own comment, you certainly can go on to the Amherst Municipal Affordable Housing Trust webpage, and thank you Greg for putting it up there. And you can put in your own comment. Tonight, we would actually ask, oh, before I move on, I see that Representative Dom has joined us. And we're going to, we can put this aside for a second and we're gonna ask Representative Dom, who was kind enough to come here and join us. We had asked if she could give us some updates about what she thought were important legislative bills coming up and how we could support any of the legislation that she thinks is really important for us to know about. So I'm gonna stop there and move to item number six to allow her to come and speak because she's on a very, very tight timeline. So move her into our panel. Thank you, Representative Dom. Oh, I'm like so honored that you've said this, but Greg, I'm so sorry, I'm cutting the line. Thank you for letting me do that. Erica, thank you so much for bringing me in. I've just been going from one place to another. And as you know, Grace Simmons on my team is here and they'll be able to sort of fill you in. I think there were specific bills that you wanted to know about that Grace is prepared to also share brief comments on. I wanted to give you a sense of what's happening right now in terms of timeliness so that you get a sense of not just what you may wanna weigh in on, but how quickly you may wanna do that. So as you may know, Wednesday, the House budget was released and it is a total of 57.9 billion with a B dollars. And I just wanna remind everybody that this budget is happening in a financial climate for Massachusetts of relative uncertainty and the thing that we're certain of is not so great. So I actually prefer uncertainty than being told that we're living that the budget is gonna have to be very restricted because we have not done what we thought we'd do in terms of generating revenue. So let me just step back for a moment. For about four or five years consecutively, we've had budgets that have exceeded what the budget makers thought were gonna be our goals. And when those goals and budgets speak are called benchmarks. And so for the past couple of years, we've exceeded those benchmarks. The economy has been very good. We brought in more revenue than they thought we would. And what they thought we would when they created those benchmarks, that's what the budget was based on. So we've always had sort of excess and an ability to be probably a little bit more generous than we later in the fiscal year than we would be in the beginning. However, in the past seven months, Massachusetts has not made its revenue benchmarks. That doesn't mean we're not collecting revenue, we are. It just means that the benchmarks or the goals that we set were a little bit too ambitious for the actual economy that we're in. And so we've missed the benchmarks. Wouldn't be such a big deal except that meant that our budget that was created for FY24 was based on benchmarks that we didn't reach. And so some of you may know that about two months ago, I think the governor implemented nine C cuts, which if you're in a nonprofit or in government and Eric is shaking her head, that sends like goosebumps down your spine because what that means is a mid-year budget cut. And it's basically because we're not sure if we're gonna get enough revenue to finish the year. Unlike the federal government, we have to have a balanced budget. And we don't make the money. People have said, have sort of said things to me that make me think that maybe they think that Massachusetts does print their own money, we don't. Only the US government does that. So we have certain benchmarks that have been set now for FY25, which is the next budget year. They're not as ambitious as they've been in the past. They recognize that we're bringing in revenue, our economy is okay, but we just have to be a little bit, excuse me, more realistic with what we're going to do in terms of revenue. And so, excuse me, I just wanna pick something up. That's important for this presentation. And so Wednesday, the house always goes first with money matters. So Wednesday, the house budget came out. And this is after months of public hearings, advocacy meetings, like I've been meeting with the chairman of ways it means other people have, so they create a budget. And we have till tomorrow to submit amendments to that budget. That means if there's things we want changed or added into the budget. I suppose there might also be amendments to delete things from the budget or to modify things in a way that restrict it. That's not usually what I do, but like for example, I'd be concerned about potential amendments that limit certain state services only to U.S. citizens, for example. That would be sort of a way to amend the budget to deny a service or to take away a service. And a person who may introduce that may have a lot of reasons to introduce that and one of it may be to save money at this point, quite frankly. But we have until tomorrow, so we have basically 48 hours to submit amendments. And those amendments can be programmatic, money-wise for programs or local investments, otherwise known as earmarks. And there's also a part of the budget that's called an outside section, which is policy. And so the housing part of this budget is actually more generous than I thought it was gonna be because I thought we have the housing bond coming through too. That may be a lot of housing pieces would be shifted to the bond. But what I see in this budget is that housing benefits are in this budget and I'm thinking that the bond is gonna focus a lot more on production. And the big ticket items, like what Nate was talking about in terms of the high cost of construction and what we heard from Valley CDC, that's what you need a big bond for. So I think that's gonna be the bond. Just in terms of timing though, next week, the House Ways and Means Committee will organize all the amendments that come in into categories. And then the following week, the Wednesday, Thursday and Friday, the House will meet to debate and discuss the budget and to pass a budget. And we will pass a budget. It's not like, will we do it, will we not do it? I've been there for five years, we always pass a budget. And we pass it on time, at least our part, maybe not necessarily the part that's for the whole state, but getting our part done so we can give it to the Senate happens on time. When we're done, it goes to the Senate and they do their thing with the budget at the end of May. So about a month later, they pretty much go through a similar process, not exactly, but similar, but they end up with their Senate budget. You can imagine it'll look different than the House and I'm gonna explain why in a moment. And then it'll go into conference. There'll be a conference committee that will have to come up with a unified budget that both bodies can agree on. When that happens, we vote on it, it goes to the governor. She gets to either approve it, veto it, or veto certain parts of it. If she vetoes certain parts of it, we still have an opportunity to consider overriding and passing our budget. Now, I suspect that the Senate budget is usually actually a little bit more robust than the House one, only because since it happens after the House one, we generally know that we have more, in the past five years, we've known we've had more money by the time the Senate gets to it and they can use that money in meeting people's needs. This year, that may happen and it's compounded by the fact that the House may be a little bit more cautious. So we may see an interesting budget happen in May. That's the budget. So that's gonna be services, benefits, some of the things that are in the budget might be like the money for the emergency assistance shelter system, which I'm sure you've talked about. It's a huge issue, not only with Massachusetts residents, but with migrants in the state. And we've made a commitment to make sure that folks get housed. So that's a very big piece of money. The MRVP program is in there for vouchers. The RAFT program is in there, home bases in there, shelter workforce assistance, which is something that was not in the governor's budget is in our budget at a price tag of $10 million, which I think is terrific. The other thing that's in our budget that I really wanna sort of be excited about is we fund a pilot program for the right to legal counsel and evictions. And this has been one of the priorities for me being in the state. If you may know that the governor put it as a policy in her housing bond, but without a price tag, but there is a price tag to it if you're gonna implement it. In the house budget, it's in there at about, I think, $2.5 million for a pilot program. And so that's fantastic, because we're gonna learn from the pilot program that it has to be made permanent. I'm pretty convinced. That's one piece. Then there's the housing bond that you've heard about. And what I've said is I think that's gonna be about production. And very likely that could come before the House of Representatives, but in the middle of May sometime. I mean, it could be in June, but I'm hearing Chatter that it may be in May, which makes some sense because since it's a money bill, it would come to the House first and that would allow the housing bond, then the Senate budget, and then the Senate deal with the housing bond. And obviously we want that to pass before the end of the fiscal year so that we can have it in place for the next. So that's to give you a sense of timing. And so if you're looking for support for amendments to the budget, you should let me know next week because it should happen before we actually have debate so that I can look at it, consider it. If I'm not already a co-sponsor of those amendments, become a co-sponsor, or somehow indicate my support for them. If you're thinking about the bond, you've got some time. And so I kind of want you to relax about that. It went through the housing committee and it's in the bonding committee, but whatever is happening in those committees, it's still in flux. It's still fluid. And the same people who would be putting the finishing touches on a housing bond have to deal with the budget first. So there's a little bit of breathing over there. And I think I'll stop. I know that Grace is also on the phone. I'm sorry, I took a little bit longer than I thought I would, which is always the case because I like to talk. That's just the way it is. But Grace has also prepared to give you some information on the specific bills that you asked about. So I'd like to, if you have any questions about timing, I'm here or otherwise I'd like to hand it off to Grace. I don't see any hands up. So I think there was a lot to take in, which was very, very useful, Representative Dom. No, no, no, we need to understand that. And having worked for the state, it's always been, the spring has always been sort of like a fire drill around the budgets. But it's also a real opportunity for us as trust members to think about how we can help you either around amendments or just supporting the amendments that you're putting through. So thank you for giving us this information. It's really important. Yeah, we get information from the Western Mass Network to End Homelessness and the Western Mass Housing Coalition. Those are pretty much like the amendments that I'll probably be looking through. Grace is probably gonna be talking about some of them. And when it comes to the housing bond, I just wanna kind of raise a flag. That I'm really gonna wanna know what your priorities are because it is really a bunch of stuff, right? There's production, there's paying attention to housing authorities, which I really wanna look at, like what are we doing about maintenance and getting those empty units filled with people? There's renovation, there's decarbonization. So I think I really, whatever we can do to also support you to support me, in identifying what your priorities are, I would love to be engaged in that conversation. Thank you. And maybe with our process for our own goal setting that will help us to define more specific areas that we can then share with you that we think are priorities. That would be terrific. Thank you, Hopeful, for your great work. I mean, really, Amherst is just hitting it out of the park in terms of affordable housing and all of you are a huge part of that, like the largest part of it. And only through our partnership with people like you. So thank you. So thank you very much. I see Grace is on. So if you want, they can provide you with the specific information that you asked for. Thank you, certainly. Thank you very much, Representative Dom, because we know how busy you are. So thank you. Thank you everybody. I hope I, I'll try and stop by next month too. Great. Thank you. And Greg, thank you for letting me cut the line. Grace, thank you so much for being here and for presenting this information. Of course, happy and excited to. So I just want to make sure everyone can hear me well. All right. We can hear you like straight up. All right, so I know that the bills that you were specifically looking to talk about tonight were the right to cancel on eviction proceedings. That's, it was H1731 and S864. But it was, it is now H4360 after it was reported favorably out of the Judiciary Committee. It was reported out as a redraft, which is essentially a favorable report. And on the 12th of February, it was reported to Houseway the means, meaning it's just waiting to be brought to the floor for a debate and vote once the ball gets rolling on that. For the foreclosure prevention program, which is H942 and S653, the status of that is that one was sent to us study in February on the 7th from the Committee on Financial Services. But the other two that we still get to hear about are the Tenant Opportunity Purchase Act, or TOPA H1350 and S880. And that was the reporting date for that one was extended to actually just tomorrow. So that one actually might be out. Probably not yet, not 100% sure. I can double check on that and get that information to you. And same with the Rent Control Enabling Act that was also extended to the 12th. Not sure why they extended it to a Saturday, though. So I can definitely double check to see if those have been reported out. I wrote this up a day or two ago. But yeah, and then just to provide a few more details about the budget highlights that Repdom was talking about, the House version of the budget, the bill number for that is H6000. So if you're looking to look at the text of that, you can easily find it on the Massachusetts Legislature website, but it's definitely a lot to go through. So I wouldn't blame you if you didn't want to file through the entire thing. And if you do go to the documents, one of the documents included in the bill is kind of a summary rather than having to read through every line item. So that could be a more easily digestible way to kind of sit down with it a little longer. And I'm also one happy to send that all to you if that's easier. And so the highlights for emergency shelter, it was $500 million. And that is mostly situated in the line item 700401. I can also send all these line items over. And there's some other funding for that scattered around within the budget. $197 million for RAF, which was an increase from $190 million in FY24, $190 million for MRVP, $2.5 million for the Access to Council program. And yeah, as the rep said, tomorrow we'll be filing all the amendments and going through all those. So if you have any follow-up questions about the budget, next week we have some downtime to kind of look through all the amendments, process those, get ready for the actual budget debate week. And yeah, I'm more than happy to get as many details or answer any questions about the budget in that time. Thank you so much, Grace. I don't see any hands up. So I think everyone is good with that. But if you can send me that information, Carol and I and Greg will pass along to everyone else so they can take a look at it. Definitely will do. Thanks so much. Thank you. Thank you so much. And thank you for always attending our meetings. Of course, come to enjoy them. Lots of interesting stuff. Thanks. All right, so we're going to move back to item number four on wayfinders. I think, Greg, you were just about to say something. And if you can't remember what you said, I can continue. Yeah, in fact, I was just going to let you know that Representative Dome had appeared in the attendee group there and to go to her. But you caught it, which is great. Yeah, so I can give a, as we've heard from about cameras community homes, the sort of wonky update on the wayfinders process to actually have a brand new wrinkle, which is fun. So I think I will share if I could. So I forget who's received which communications. But where that project is right now is they have formally requested from the state a project eligibility determination. So the state does a 30-day review of basically is this project conceptually viable? They'll do a much more formal review when they actually apply for funding way down the line. That won't happen until the ZBA approves it locally. So as a part of that initial process, which is ultimately a state or Commonwealth led process, the town and town bodies like ours as well as individual members of the public are empowered to make public comment on the conceptual idea of the project. And that is in place to communicate to the state because this is going through the 4DB process. In some communities, that's a very contentious process. And this is a window for folks to be on the record. In this case, this is a friendly 4DB. So we're using the mechanism because it's efficient, but it's not a contentious relationship. Obviously, we're a town body and we fund in this project. The thing I want to reflect is that we do have an obligation to solicit feedback from the public. We don't need to hit ceiling, but we do want to demonstrate that we've let the public know that they have an opportunity to weigh into the state in this period. We were a little bit nervous about the number of comments that we had. But both they did not kind of wondered if perhaps this is just not a contentious question. And for a variety of reasons, I think probably both the movement of the sites aren't quite as prominent as others that we've had. It's family housing, which is maybe a little more palatable to some folks. And also that the national conversation around housing has shifted a great deal and folks are supportive. The thing I want to report is despite that, we want to make sure we had some comments. So we did a little news item via the notify mechanism and the website this afternoon. Maybe some of you received that, I don't know, but I did a, perhaps some of these are all of your comments, but we just did a quick thing. And there's an option there to, so do you want to push this to the people who subscribe so it goes to their phones or to their email or their text messages? And in a period of a few hours, we got several comments, all of them are positive. I just looked. So point being, it seems like a strong positive appetite for this. So with that said, we can talk about the trust submitting a memo in support. I know at least one member already has done that individually, but it'd probably be good if you cover that. I don't know, Erica, if you want to read that. Yes, yes, so thank you, Greg. I think it would be a really good idea if the trust members agreed, if Carol and I could submit a memo to Paul that we feel that this is a really important project and that we support it. I did look at the planning board memo. The planning board has stated that they support it, but they have a lot of comments that make me very nervous. Which may seem like they're barriers to actually getting this project done. So I think it would be good for the state, because my understanding is that the memos will be submitted, that we can include a memo from our group saying that this is a project that's gonna move forward. There is absolute support for it. It's a partnership between the trust and the town and Wayfinders. Wayfounders has a lot of great experience and that whatever the planning board has put up with regard to specifics will be ironed out through the process. So I'm hoping that everyone will be okay with Carol and I going through and submitting a memo to Paul stating that. Or is there anybody who has any concerns about that? But maybe what I should do is let Allegra speak first and then I'll ask again. Go ahead, Allegra. So I was raising my hand to make a motion in case we needed to be formal about it, if we don't need to be formal, I don't need to make a motion. But I guess just to kind of talk for a second about what the planning board said, because basically one of their big concerns is the setback from the street, right? They had placed the housing is kind of in front and then the parking is, I don't know, behind or whatever, which was actually the opposite of what the original plan, I feel like had been like way, way, way, way, way, way back. And then there was conversation about well, we want it to be not a shopping mall, we want it to be a village center, but then yeah. So regardless, I think that if that's gonna be a barrier, I would just hope that if they have to flip flop it, that wouldn't change the number of units that we could get. Because I think if being closer to the road gets us more units, that's the most important thing, I think. Although I do, again, I preferred the original plan because I have small children. So if it's a family housing, I'd be worried about having like children that close to the road, that's a busy road. So there are some safety concerns that I've just, you know, worried me a little bit, but I'm not planning boards to go. But do you want me to make a motion or are we good just being informal? I think we're okay if we can agree. If there's anybody who disagrees in allowing Carol and I to submit a memo of support to the town manager regarding the support of this project. Not seeing any. I think we can go ahead and move forward with doing that. And my understanding is, Allegra, what you raised are really important concerns, but my understanding is that when the zoning board looks at this, this is when those particular specific issues actually come. So it's interesting that, you know, it's great that the planning board is very concerned, but it would seem that it's sort of premature in them putting all of this. Maybe they wanted to document it, but it just almost seems like there's so many concerns that would then make me feel concerned that the state's gonna say, wow, there's lots of concerns here versus that the zoning board will take this up and we can also make recommendations as well to the zoning board. Okay, I think, unless I don't hear that being negated by, I assume that is the case. So we'll go ahead and do that. And then we'll share with all of you what we've come up with once we put it together and send it to Paul. Nate, I have to stand up. Oh, sorry, Nate, go ahead. Thank you. Yeah, no, thanks. I'm gonna say what Erica, you know, but you had mentioned that the planning board, you know, voice support for it. And then they, you know, became a little more critical of the design and, you know, parking ratios and other things. And I think that's fine. And they also said that could it be, you know, could each site have additional floor on the building and actually have more units and be denser. And so that may have been lost in their memo. And right, I think the state will be comfortable with it. But I think, you know, Greg and I had said, it would be great to have a memo from the trust saying that all those comments or concerns could be addressed when it actually gets to the ZBA and that, you know, there is strong support for it from the trust. And, you know, and I could even say that the planning board supported the concept as well. So in this phase of the permit, it's kind of like a pre-permit review by the state. They look at, is the site generally developable? Is the concept plan, you know, generally appropriate? Is their budget feasible? You know, do they have site control? You know, it's a few out in a number of things, but, you know, the planning board said, yes, quickly to all that and then just jumped right in and talked about other things that, I think the state would also say what they've done in the past, there were comments like this before, they would just say, well, these comments are more appropriately addressed to the ZBA. And then just say, they would ask actually that the town just forward all these comments onto the ZBA. But I think it would be helpful to have a memo from the trust just because, you know, it can only help, right? And as Greg mentioned, we had Wayfiners had a forum, you know, about a month ago and not many people came. They did notice the butters, you know, it was just like a legal notice. They sent a mail, a mailing out to all properties within 300 feet of both sites. They put signs up on the sites. We had information in the schools and the school and, you know, there hasn't been a lot of opposition. Everything seems positive. The neighbors of the sites have written letters and support, which is great. You know, I do think that Valley has done a really nice job with their two previous comprehensive permit projects. And so, you know, I think that the community might be getting more comfortable with them as well as Greg mentioned. So there's probably a number of reasons why that this is, you know, going, you know, I don't wanna jinx it, but you know, going well right now. And maybe it says that in the future, things will be just as smooth. So, you know, I'm hopeful that, yeah, the planning board comments aren't really gonna derail this. I mean, it's interesting the chair or the planning board and someone else said, yeah, let's just put another story on both sites. Like, if we need housing and you have 30 units at Southeast Street, why not put another floor on it and add 10 or 15 more units? And it's like, wow, okay. But at the same time, great. But you know, I'm like, you know, so actually I've met with Wayfinders twice since that meeting just last week and we have another meeting tomorrow morning about it, trying to figure out how to address that and could they modify it a little bit? So yeah, I mean, I think, I actually think it'll be, I think it's worthwhile to be honest. I actually find that the design of Belcher Town Road isn't the best. And so I think the comments, you know, it was the first time the planning board saw it. So, you know, they really just jumped right in, which I think is great actually because I think what it'll do is it actually prepare Wayfinders for when it gets to permitting. And so, you know, I've actually asked that to be forwarded to the conservation commission, the historical commissions looked at it, you know, you'll have a memo, the commission was fine with it. And so, you know, I think it's great, it's getting out there. And by the time it hopefully it comes to the ZBA, it's like all those things have been worked out and really it's just now it'll be, you know, have to go through the permitting, but there'll be no surprises. Thank you, Nate. And I'm also paying attention to the time. It's 8.59 and we still have one topic that I believe is a little bit important. So I'm hoping that people can stay. Is there anybody who needs to leave exactly at nine? Okay, I'm not seeing any hands up. Okay, so we're gonna, oh, Allegra, you are. Well, we still can, okay. You're mute, so I wasn't sure what you said. Okay, so I'm just gonna ask Nate to, could you briefly give us a sense of the planning board's conversation of the overlay and what you think we as the trust could do to help this conversation? Yeah, I don't know if trust members have seen some of the information or followed it, but, you know, starting many months ago at the planning board, we talked about having an overlay on University Drive, it's actually between Amity Street and Route 9. So, you know, where, you know, just that stretch. You know, properties on both sides of the road at first may go south of Route 9, but really it's just those properties kind of where the old rafters is and, you know, like Athena's Pizza and the post office and then the medical buildings across the street. And, you know, the idea was, could this be student housing? You know, I think I said something like 2,000 beds down there and really have a dense area following the University Towngown Report, where, you know, there could be students close to university and not impact a lot of neighbors. And the planning board, like the idea of having an overlay and infill there. And since then, you know, it's been modified. They don't like the idea of having apartments. They want most buildings to be mixed use. They're worried about the loss of commercial retail space. They don't really want it to restrict it to students or, you know, they want it to be open for everyone. And they're worried about density and some other things. You know, it's not that it's a, it's not a bad thing that they have those concerns. At the same time, you know, when they were looking at 45, 55 South Pheasant Street just the other night, you know, there's 22 units, they're worried that all those units are gonna become students. And so I said, well, you know, we're not gonna have an impact if every time there's a 10 unit development and we don't wanna have students live there, but we're not willing to have a place where we could say, let's put a lot of students. And so, you know, from the trust perspective, you know, the purpose of the, of the bylaw or the overlay, you know, I think I'd say it could be housing and economic development or housing opportunities and expanded economic development or something and that's some other pieces. But yeah, I mean, I think it's, you know, I just wanna keep the trust aware of the conversation. And you know, if, you know, if at some point you'd wanna have a memo to the planning board saying, like, you know, it's late tonight so it couldn't even happen next month. The planning board hasn't really talked about it since February, they're gonna pick it up in May. Again, just because they've had other things to do, but, you know, some members, you know, aren't, you know, I think the idea, generally they support it, but then, you know, the details are getting worked out. But to me, it's like if it loses what could be an impactful overlay, you know, is it time to have the trust weigh in or have other opinions to help guide them because, you know, really we do need like a big magnitude of housing to help balance some of the, you know, the pressures and demands. And, you know, for instance, with University Drive or with a South Pleasant Street project, they're saying, well, if it's 85% students or more, let's require that they have, you know, a living manager and extra, you know, measures to keep the students safe and whatever. And it's like, well, you know, how do we measure that? And, you know, there's a big discussion about that. But it's like, okay, we can't be trying to address this on a project by project basis. I think that, you know, we have to almost step back and say, okay, if we think we need 3,000 beds for students, you know, could, you know, Amherst could, the university could have the, what are some mechanisms to do that? And I think, you know, the university town gown, you know, it was like a year long effort, identify University Drive as an area where there could be pretty dense housing. And so, you know, Barry Roberts applied for a variance from the ZBA. And I don't know if there's an article in the Gazette on the corner of university in Amity. It was like 80, almost 90 units, 230 beds, mixed use, you know, really nice. Essentially that project that received the variance wouldn't be allowed in the overlay. And so it was like, okay, so if the overlay is now not achieving what, I don't know what I wanted, but maybe what would actually be impactful is it, you know, does the planning board need some outside perspective? And so that's where I, you know, I came, you know, that was kind of the discussion to the housing trust, it's late, but maybe we could pick it up next month and we could send more information to you. I just, you know, and I get it, we want to be careful of the design. And, you know, we don't want to zone out the possibility of non-residential space. At the same time, we've had a research and development overlay there for a few decades and it really hasn't been used. You know, the idea of an overlay is that all the existing zoning stays in place. I know it's another layer of zoning, but it's an optional one that you can use. You don't have to use it. But if, you know, it was allowed enough density or it was, you know, worthwhile, someone might. So like right now, you know, the way it's zoned, you get limited units on the property because of additional lot area and some other requirements. And so, you know, for instance, someone could come say like, oh, I'd like to redevelop where the Mahamsha bike exchanges in the zoning might allow 30 units. And it's like, okay, or if we had an overlay and you could get 80 units there, you know, is this an appropriate place for it? And, you know, I think it is, you know, it's not, you know, to me it's, you know, it's relationship to the university, to transportation, to other roads, to neighborhoods. It makes a lot of sense as opposed to, you know, we're looking at maybe rezoning East Amherst. And I think East Amherst is a place for density, but do you really want to have a lot of students in East Amherst that are then commuting through town when, you know, you could have them closer to the university? Anyways, it's just something I want the trust to be aware of. And the planning board is having this discussion as well, but it seems like they're kind of leaning toward, you know, only allowing mixed use buildings, no apartments. And, you know, some question about what's the kind of appropriate density. Gaston, you have your hand up. Yeah, I just wanted to, I mean, maybe you also all made the connection. This is exactly the kind of thing that if we get our view together to ask Dave to bring to the UMass conversations, I guess I don't see an issue with first floor retail. You can still have as many apartments going up from there. So that doesn't cause me any concern if that's what mixed use means. But I wonder why it raises a concern for you, Nate. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. And it doesn't, it doesn't. I think at one point they wanted 100% of the ground floor of every building. So all the ground floor cannot be residential. And, you know, so what I see happening is one, is that people build buildings and they just don't fill them because they don't need to. Or it is such a high requirement that it doesn't actually get you, that it overlay wouldn't get used. And so I think their concern is that, you know, maybe the first few buildings, the first floor wouldn't be occupied because there isn't the density there. But eventually you're gonna, you might need or want that space. But if you, the market is so strong for residential that if you don't require some non-residential space, it just won't get built and you won't have the opportunity then to backfill it in. And so I think that's their concern. I think they're now maybe at 50% ground floor, about 100% of the street-facing to be non-residential. I don't necessarily have a problem with it, except that say in Barry's project that was proposed that received the variance, that project wouldn't even meet these standards. And so it's, to me it's like, well, what are the nuances to get something permitted? You know, like what, you know, if it's so rigid that it doesn't allow it, is it that, you know, maybe there is some a little more flexibility that we could discuss. And so I don't necessarily have a problem with mixed use buildings, right? But it's just that, you know, if that's the only thing that we'd allow and then it doesn't really get what you'd want, you know. So I think because of time, just from my perspective, what you guys, you and Greg put together for us to think about payment and lieu was so helpful in terms of pros and cons. And I'm not sure if you can do something like that with regards to exactly the overlay or not having an overlay. But it was so very helpful in terms of having a conversation to be able to think through what those pros and cons were. And since we don't have a lot of time right now, it might be useful for our May conversation. And I think this is really important. I mean, the thing that comes in my mind is at the North apartments, they do have mixed use and they're still absolutely trying to get people retailers in there. So, you know, the demand seems for more residential spaces versus retail, especially in a climate of where everyone's using, unfortunately, Amazon. So I think, you know, that is also something to consider when you think about this having mixed use or having a requirement for mixed use when, you know, it's really such a challenge to get retailers to come in when, you know, people are using online versus walking into places. But anyways, I think the conversation is really important. So I think if you could possibly do that for us for next time, we'll put it on the agenda because I think it's really important for us to be involved in areas where we can reduce barriers or at least recommend to reduce barriers for development. And it seems like some of these things are becoming barriers to development. Okay, so since we're 909, very quick, go ahead. I just want to say, I think what you just said is a really good idea, but maybe it won't happen at our next meeting because we already have so many things. And so maybe they could have a little more time and do it in June or something. That's my only suggestion. Okay, it seems like maybe the conversation is not so urgent with the planning board or I think the other thing that Carol and I said to you, Nate, was that if they're having a conversation about the overlay and you want us to be there and to in-person make our public comments, we can do that as well as an individual who lives in Amherst. I think if we're doing it for the trust then we have to make sure that the trustees let us speak on behalf of the trust. Okay, all right, so we'll think about when we can have a fuller conversation about this in terms of our next meetings. So I'm going to go ahead and wrap this up. I think we've already talked about the announcement on May 9th. We're going to have two major conversations. One is the strategic planning. The other one's going to be the AHRA presentation. So that's going to take up most of the trust meeting. There's only one public person here. Thank you, Grace, for staying and Grace has already submitted her comments. So I'm not going to open it up for public comments. I don't think they're, I'm not going to ask for any items not anticipated within 48 hours because we just don't have time. And I'm just going to state that our next full MHT meeting is on May 9th and the Zoom link is always available through the town website. So unless there's anything burning, I'm going to go ahead and close the meeting. But Greg? Just let us know if you want to come next Wednesday to Boston or Quincy for profit bills. Thank you, thank you, thank you. And either come next Wednesday or also give us questions to bring with us if you cannot come. All right, thank you so much. I'm sorry that we went over, but I think all these conversations were really important. We will see you either at next Wednesday or next Thursday at our small group meeting or at the next trust meeting, which is May 9th. So thank you very much. Okay. All right, you're on mute. Same great job, thank you. Thanks, good night. And I'm sorry we kept you over. It's okay, okay, all right, see you soon.