 Okay, so good morning everybody. Welcome to all students and welcome to all those students who are in our e-learning group as well. We trust your learning, we trust that you are being encouraged as we learn, as we listen, as you're applying many things as we learn in this very practical course of marriage, Christian marriage and family. The last week we started off with Biblical foundations of parenting. We're going to be continuing that entire unit this week and into the next. We started on looking at certain instructions, certain guidelines for us as parents. We began, maybe I think I just open it up quickly to somebody who'd like to give me a recap about what we covered the last week on parenting. I know we did a portion, a part of the previous unit, but maybe just to start off with what we're doing today. Would somebody like to quickly give us a recap of what we handled last week? You could unmute and share. Is everyone just still waking up from, still up from slumber? At least at this part of the world. Yes Shay, go ahead. You seem to be the most awake Shay, please go ahead. Sorry, I thought I lost everybody. You want me to... No, I had asked for a recap of what we did last week. So a quick recap about what we had started off with the foundations of parenting. Trying to recall, sorry. We did the parenting primer and we spoke about the parenting being a divine calling, a ministry, something that God has ordained. Someone likes to take over from Shay? Okay. I've never heard silence like this before. I think I remember something you said about the seasons of children. When they're toddlers, then they grow up to teenagers. You have to change your parents' style the way you approach discipline them. You give example of your daughter, how there are things in our life. You notice there are things that similarities between you and your daughter. You give example on how we shouldn't just conclude and generalize kids all the same but deal with them basically on their uniqueness and never just generalize them based on the status quo of how kids should ought to be. But basically deal with them based on their uniqueness. I remember you gave an example of your son. Yes, I remember now it's coming to my mind. Normally he should actually be doing the things boys do, but he was more interested in arts and all the other things. So basically what you were buttressing down there was never generalize kids, our children basically, but deal with them based on their uniqueness and how they are formed basically. That was one that stood out for me during the lesson. Thank you, Shay. Thank you. I think as Shay was talking, just reminded me of how examples can really stick in your mind and that's what really helps to build certain concepts. So you just confirmed that for me, Shay. Thank you. So we did speak about how parenting in itself is a call. It's a ministry, something that God has ordained, an activity God has ordained. So if God instituted marriage, everything that happens under that institution is also something that's divinely appointed by God and so on. So it's parenting. So we did, we did even. Okay, thank you. I must see that. Okay. Thank you, Christopher. Yeah. So the, we also did see that as a parent, we, we are called to represent God, the Heavenly Father, even though we are imperfect, we are flawed. We are still learning, but we are yet called even all through all of that imperfection, we are called to represent God, the Father, and our desire should be that our children will see God in us and through us. And that through our example, they will have more of an accurate picture of God. We also spoke about how parents are the biggest role models. They are the greatest teachers for their children because children take pride in their parents and they want to be like their parents. So we are in a position of influence. And as a result, we provide those opportunities for them so that we can, the involvement we have in the lives of our children will be ongoing, will be Godly. And as we interact with them, we are, we influence them through our words, our attitudes, our behaviors, our actions. And this influence is something that we need to continue on because children observe us. They, they see us living more than, you know, a lot of things are caught more than it is taught. We spoke about that and our influence is great. So also the same way we did talk about how we deal with children differently depending on how they are made. So we don't have a cookie cutter method for all of them, but, you know, that they are uniquely made in the image of God. And thus we, we groom them, nurture them according to the way that they've been created. Okay, so taking on from there, if you'd like to follow me in the book, textbook, I am on page 158. All right, I'm on 158 and we'll, I hope to cover this entire chapter here today. There is a lot of application questions that's there at the end of this chapter and very practical and quite insightful in the way that, that you can, you and your spouse together can work together to bring up the children. So I encourage you, if you're married, you have children, please ensure to sit with your spouse and go through those application questions at the end of this chapter, which is on page 158. Okay, on page 168 and 169 are application questions. And if you can go through that, it will be very helpful for you to bring your children up with the suggestions and with what we have the insights that we've learned from scripture. Okay, so today we're going to go on. So some of the aspects that we are going to be looking at today in today's class with parenting is we're going to have a look at understanding children in the way that it is, it is shown to us in scripture. We're also going to be focusing also on how, just a little bit more on how we engage with children depending on their life stage or their developmental stages, the kind of the place that they are in and then we will look into discipline because discipline is one of, you know, a big characteristic in the way that we groom our children. Okay, so we're going to be looking at a few of this through our class today. Okay, something that I missed out the last time to mention was that one of the responsibilities that as parents we do have is helping the children to teaching children how to live life. The very, you know, and I think right now in a lot of schools and institutions, there are classes on life skills, okay, where they are taught life skills. And I think I'm of the opinion that teaching children life skills cannot be done through a lesson or through, you know, paper pen activity, but actually imparting that in within your home, you know, in the daily living of your home. So these life skills are not just ways to live, you know, how is it that you manage yourself, but there are a lot of important many, many kind of principles follow fall into these this broad category of life skills. It's, it's skills that you pick up so that, you know, you can live life with wisdom and with understanding. And as parents, we are called to teach them how to live so that they know it, you know, the children are taught of the Lord. So you teach them certain things. And in this entire gamut of life skills, we're looking at probably daily disciplines, looking at how we can impart certain values or principles or ways of living. And this is not something that's like a one time lesson, but something that keeps happening. So it's progressive, it is ongoing. Some are picked up earlier on in life, maybe things that are more, more easily done up, like, you know, your thank yous and please and I'm sorry, are something that you teach right from a basic age from a really tiny age. But as you, but teaching values and principles is an ongoing process. And that's something that can be done through very many ways and not just, you know, not just being a formal training. So I think I just want to give you an example because, you know, examples help. So I remember when my kids were at their Montessori, you know, they'd go to school and they'd find a lot of things that are so colorful, right? So they would pick up those crayons or things which may be an odd color, which probably they don't have at home. They pick it up and bring it home. And, you know, I thought that was an important time to teach them those lessons because it may be, it may be very insignificant that they bought back a chalk or a crayon. But for the fact that helping them understand that that does not belong to them and that needs to be returned and, you know, not creating shame or creating any kind of a negativity there, but just helping them see that what is not theirs is does not, they cannot bring it home, you know, and also so you're instilling the understanding of respect and honesty. And, you know, even the fact that they will go back and accountability that whatever they've picked up which is not theirs will be given back to the teacher and with an apology. But so these are also ways that, you know, you train even little young children in things of life. So as a parent, it is important for us to intentionally understand the values or the principles or the skills that you would like to impart to your children. Because if we don't have, I mean, I always say this, if we don't know where we're going, we don't know our destination, we are going to go off course. So to really know, okay, maybe I would like my children to learn respect. I would like my children to learn integrity. I would like my children to learn about time management. I would like my children to learn about compassion, about kindness, about generosity, whatever it may be. There may be a list that you may feel is important for you and maybe a list that your children do need. So taking that time to come up with those key values or those principles and finding out ways in how you would like to impart those skills or those disciplines to your children. So take some time and I think there is a table. There's a table on page 158 that you can actually help you to jot that down and come to a place of figuring out how is it that you would want to impart these to them. So sit down and because like we said, it is important to have a roadmap and it is important to have a vision as to what you would want to impart to the children and doing this could be extremely helpful. So we move on to looking at what scripture says about children and I'm on page 158. If someone could just quickly read up Psalm 127 verses 3 and 5, 3 to 5, and there's an analogy that is given here and we will just look at the way that children are seen in the eyes of the Lord. So Psalm 127, page 158, page 158, yes. So, Psalm 127 verse 3 to 5, it says, Behold children are a heritage from the Lord, the fruit of the womb is a reward. For like arrows in the hand of a warrior, so are the children of one's youth. Five, happy is the man who has his quiver full of them. They shall not be ashamed, but shall speak with their enemies in the gate. All right, thank you Shay. Harrison, I shall address your question at probably the end of the hour or in between, right? I've read it, yeah. So when we look at the scripture, some of the highlights that this verse talks about is that children are a heritage from the Lord. They are given, they are an inheritance, they are a reward, they are a gift. So the way that, the way God sees children is, you know, children are serious business, okay? And they are not to be taken lightly, that is, this is something that the Lord himself gives. So the gifts of the Lord, you know, scripture says of how the father of life, lights gives good gifts to his children, to his children. So children are a gift of the Lord to us as parents. So when we look at children, as we had spoken about the last time, we see that every child born to us is unique and they're different. And they are made in the image of God meant for God's purposes to be fulfilled, okay? So we don't see children, you know, each child bears an image, bears a certain, the name and a characteristic that God has for them. So when, you know, we don't, sometimes we have this temptation to look at, especially when it's children, to look at all of them collectively, you know? But I think it would do parents good if they're wise enough to see them individually, just like the way God sees each one of us individually, okay? So whatever or the many number of children that we may have in our homes, they are uniquely seen. And we see that the Bible has a very, very significant analogy that it brings about. And the Psalmist here likens children to arrows, okay? Like into arrows. And if, you know, I haven't done archery, but you know, you see how people who do archery or, you know, who sport, who play the sport, something that they do is arrows are, you know, you have to aim it to a certain target before it can be thrown. You just don't simply throw, I mean, simply shoot out an arrow, you have to aim it somewhere. So it says arrows in the hand of a warrior, so are the children of one's youth. So each arrow is something that requires to be aimed before they can be released. So this is helping us to see that every child needs to be trained and equipped before they can be released, equipped and trained into something that is, that God has put into them before they can be released, okay? It also talks of, you know, arrows also are often used as weapons. They're used in war so that it can bring about victory. You know, you ensure that you have victory. It's something that you use to bring about, to bring victory in a battle. You use an arrow. And we see how it talks about that children themselves are those who can have a mighty influence and impact, okay? We see that in Psalm 112 too. It says the good man's children will be powerful in the land and his descendants will be blessed. So they are the ones who need, who as they're being equipped and as they're being taught, they go out as influence. They will become mighty on the earth. So arrows are also seen as weapons that bring about impact and influence. Now arrows also are released, you know, it depends on the pressure that you put. I don't know if it's called a pressure. I think it's got this another name, you know, how much of tension that you give it that the distance that it travels. So based on the tension that you put on it is how much it's going to travel. So it really talks about how much as a parent you can, you know, you can help provide those opportunities, help them go into a place. You know, releasing them into whatever they can reach, okay, or what God has in store for them. So it is a place where, you know, you release, help to release a lot more in their lives based on what you are sowing into their lives. So the more opportunities you provide, the greater the atmosphere and the environment, the greater is the distance they go for, the further that they accomplish in their lives. And lastly, it talks about verse five, it says, a quiver full of arrows. Happy is a man, a quiver full of arrows, specifically talks about, you know, how a quiver full of arrows is what brings about your protection and your defense. And that's what children become for parents, you know, godly children become for the family, a sense of defense and protection. So before setting them out, we are, we are as parents to equip to prepare them for the impact that they could bring. So, and in order to do that, we need to understand them, we need to know them, because you cannot randomly equip them if you do not understand them. And I think I bought about a lot of examples the last time. So really knowing who they are and how do you know and understand them is one is when you actually spend time with them, when you are listening and talking to them about their thoughts and their ideas. Getting a picture of who they are as children, what do they think, how do they see things, really being able to engage with them to knowing that there are many things inside of them and we are as parents and needed to explore that. So we also need to not just know them but also be in a place of observing them. How do they, how do they do things, how do they interact, what are their behaviors like, what are their mannerisms like, because it helps to know our children a lot more. So through these times as we engage with them, we begin to understand them, we begin to know them and then be able to guide and release them into the potential that God has placed in their lives. So through this, God has, yes, put in good gifts into our children, yet each of them are unique, but we as parents, before we help to release them, we really need to know them, understand them, what they are like and God gives us the wisdom to see what may be important in their lives so that they could be released into that potential. So let's look at, in taking that time to do that, of course it requires communication, it requires time, it requires attention, so doing that is something that's quite important. Moving on, something that we took over the last time is how do we engage with children, we know that children grow up and go through very many different stages. So if you look at the life cycle development of a child, they start from being an infant, to a toddler, to a preschool child, to a school going kid, to a teenager and then to maybe an adult child. So that's the way that you see the transition of children, each child passes through these different stages of growth and development. But we as parents need to be able to engage with them differently depending on their life stage. You cannot deal with your teenager like how you deal with your toddler, rather you should not be dealing with your teenager like you would deal with your toddler. Because they are growing, they have their needs in that age are very different from that of a toddler. So maybe a toddler is someone you would hold his hand as you're crossing the road, the teenager probably, you know you give him the freedom to do that on his own. So simple things like that. So the way that you engage with them are different and it does parents wise if we are able to play these different engaging roles and being a little more wiser in the way that we engage with the children. So for an infant and a toddler, you are playing a role of being a caretaker where you're nurturing them and where you're caring for them. There's everything that's done for them, that's not the point of time where you discipline them, you know, you don't discipline an infant. But then as they grow, maybe when it becomes a little more bigger is when discipline also begins. So knowing when to do what is what wisdom is. The next stage of let's say a preschooler is where, you know, their life is all about exploring the world, knowing the world, finding out how the world works. So they require a playmate, they require someone who would guide them into showing them things like for a preschooler, you wouldn't allow him to put his hand into an electric socket. You wouldn't do that, right? You would either plug the socket in or, you know, you would one give them some kind of a warning teaching them, training them of how they need to be careful. For a child who's into a school going age, that's where there is a lot more instructions that are given a lot more of discipline begins in a structured manner there. And that is, it becomes a lot more instructional in the way you participate with your child. But when it comes to teen, that is, that is a lot, it is a lot more participatory. It's, we may not always be at a stage of being instructional. Yes, of course, there are some stages where you do, where you, where you may have to bring in instructions and we will talk about that a little later. But they parents need to be seen more as a teammate or someone who is encouraging, who is like a, like a, like a, like a support or a guide to showing the way, way, but yet allowing the team to find his own way through with adults or young adult children. You, you become a lot more of a coach or a mentor or an advisor, and where you are sharing ideas and experiences. So the way that you engage with children through the years from zero to, let's say 21, that needs to be a transition. And the faster we learn some of that, I think there's less heartache for parents to be able to know that, you know, there are some things that you may need to step back on some things you may need to step in and maneuver in such a way so that it helps the children to grow up. But also, you know, giving in your inputs in the way that is helpful for them at their ages. So I think the challenge, especially in raising children comes at a time when children move from the age group of being like, like the tweens that is the 10, 11, 12 into their teenage. That's where a lot of challenges come by with parents, right? And we see struggles in that area. One of the biggest reasons for that is we see that as children hit puberty, they are also building an identity of their own. Okay, they're becoming people of their own. They have their own thoughts, they have their own ideas, maybe their own opinions, they may begin to explore certain beliefs, have certain thoughts. And they begin to form all of this, you know, all what they have been trained in, what they're seeing. They begin to form a personality, a person of themselves. And that becomes a struggle for parents because maybe the initial 10, 11 years you're seeing a certain behavior and suddenly you're experiencing a transition. And that becomes a challenge for parents because often they, you know, parents do find it hard to let go, to be able to, you know, take off the reins a bit. But it is needed for children to go through that developmental stage. It is needed for them to experience the world and, you know, come up with their beliefs but yet have a strong encourager, a mentor, a coach in their parent to be able to help them navigate through those difficult years. So, if you look at page 160 to 161, you will find certain practical, you know, ways of dealing with them. And I'm not going to go in through this but you can actually take some time to just read through that table under teenage transitions. You know, what is probably the teenager exhibiting and what do parents perceive it as and how parents can actually see it differently. So, if you can take some time to go through that, that will be good. We'll move into the section of discipline, which is one huge area for parents. Yeah, so one big area for parents and I think there needs to be due attention given to discipline because often, you know, parents make a lot of mistakes in the way that they discipline their children based out of what they would have seen as children in the way that they've been parented. So, certain principles is what we will bring out today and look at how best, you know, it can be applied as well. So, when we look at scripture, discipline is something that we are called to do, you know, Ephesians 6-4 says raise your children with discipline and instruction. Or even in Hebrews, it talks about how the Lord disciplines those he loves. So that is a responsibility even for us as parents to do is because we know that there is a need for discipline in any form of training, whatever kind of training that you may be taking up, whether it's training children or it's training an army that needs to be a discipline. Okay, so discipline often is seen as punishment. Okay, but both of them are not the same. The objective of discipline is to train is to build is to teach is to develop. Okay, and it is not to bring about pain or it is not to bring about punishment. Discipline should aim at correcting, should aim at a self-correcting behavior. Discipline aims also at the heart of the behavior, whereas punishment deals a lot with just the behavior. For example, you know, let's say a child lies and punishment aims at maybe, you know, probably correcting the child through, let's say one or two wax. Okay, and leaving it there. Discipline aims not just at correcting the behavior, but looking into the heart of that matter. What made the child lie? What, you know, what was within the depths of his heart that created that sense of a lie? So that's what discipline, the difference between discipline and punishment is. So, and I think just to just also bring about some kind of a context is that very often, you know, families do feel that there should be an approach that is very strict. The kind of authoritarian approach that parents may bring about where there is very strict discipline in correcting, but this often can be more damaging than it may be correcting because it generally crushes the heart and the spirit of the child. Okay, so we may need to learn methods of discipline that are healthy, that are also caters to the child, caters to the age of the child and also is relevant for them. Like, for example, you may, you know, when you're disciplining a child, probably you may give a spank or two to a seven year old. But doing the same thing to a 16 year old is, is not a healthy thing to do because there are different instructional ways that you can deal with the child, you know, through a conversation through through understanding through through a talk. And so not so so we understand that discipline can be should be catered to the to the child to the age of the child to the issue in itself, and also to be able to help them to reach to the heart of the matter. So, let's look at a couple of principles that we need to keep in mind as we as we discipline. So the first way of first principle that we keep in mind is to ensure that we keep discipline as positive as possible. Okay, so when we look at discipline, we look at certain positive, positive ways of disciplining. And these forms of disciplining could would be in in the way that you help the children see what is the right from wrong, help them to show them that there are consequences to those behaviors to the things that they do. There are natural consequences that come about, if they, you know, if they fail to obey of they fail to do something that are there could be loss of certain privileges that can be timeouts that may be certain restrictions that you may, you may keep. There may be certain conditions that they are not met that something else seems delayed. Discipline positive discipline always is correctional and it is also a learning where you are not just modifying the child's behavior but also like I said looking into the heart of the matter. Whereas negative forms of discipline could be use excessive use of methods like shouting screaming, abusing verbally insulting, putting them on a guilt trip, giving them emotional threats, making negative declarations about them, putting them through undue pressure. So, you know, even by the sound of it, we do see that these are not constructive in nature. And we do, and we often see and I mean I'm also guilty of that is that often we fall into that into this mode because we're not intentional about it. And half the time, you know, especially when parents when they punish, they are actually bringing out their frustration and anger rather than hoping to correct their child. So one of the biggest principles before disciplining is for the parent is to come to a place of calm yourself before you can dole out your discipline. Because your discipline should come from a calm understanding of the matter and an understanding of correction rather than the need to vent out or bring out anger. Keeping discipline positive is the way to go because it helps for correctional behavior self correcting behavior as well as for it becomes a time of learning and a time of also examining the heart of the behavior. Okay, so that's the first first part of keeping discipline positive. Okay, I'm just going to briefly stop here for any questions. I know this generally brings about a lot of questions. Any questions. I find I don't think anyone has questions. Okay, that's good. All right. So the set. Yes. Yes, Charles, go ahead. About discipline and I don't know whether we'll be able to handle that but I'm looking at being permissive and especially with the current trend of the world we are in. Our our teenagers are accessing Internet at the maybe they are studying their chatting with fellow friends from Europe and America and they are hearing that the way I will say this like the that Western world. Their method is totally may I will say to me as a person like they are they are not the springing the children they have left them. So how do you handle that when the child is in a connection with people from the US maybe from Sweden or German and they are you are trying to discipline them. Following the techniques that we are learning and the person is like off. How do you handle that. Thank you. Yeah, thank you, Charles. I mean, you've bought up a very important point. That's something we will be also talking about but then I think I will just address this here is that. So there are two things I want to say and I want to connect it to what we're going to be teaching. So the first one is when we are placing rules for our children, or we are placing instructions for our children. It should come. What should come prior to giving rules is a relationship. Now if parents do not build a relationship with their children in the initial years of their lives. I think it is very hard to expect the children will stand by your rules. So you think of this. Think of the time when you've probably been in school or you know some place where there's a teacher who's really connected with you. And when she brings about an instruction or she says you know there's a homework due for today or tomorrow because of your relationship with that teacher you will ensure to get it done. You will want to please your teacher and I think it's the same principle that we see even in parenting is that when you build a relationship with the child. And then you bring about rules they are in a far more. I'll say a fertile place to stand in obedience to those rules. You know it's very hard for them to get off those boundaries because of the just of the of the feeling that they don't want to displease their mom or their dad. Okay, so if we are if we want our children to stand within those boundaries the first thing that we need to do is build a strong relationship with with those children because that is what really connects. Us into the level of speaking into their lives or for them to embrace those rules that you have set for them because they will begin to see that that it is in their best interest that you are giving putting in those rules. So their obedience to those rules come as a as a result of of just wanting to please you. Okay, and and look at it even in our relationship with God. The more that we spend time with God, the more you want to please God when you don't or when you don't find that, you know, you don't find a strength in a relationship. It doesn't matter to you right so so similarly so I'd say the relationship is what really matters before you can bring out rules. The next thing we talk about is boundaries. So now this is in in the understanding that there is there is an established relationship that you are building. And that's where you, you know, you you draw some of those boundaries and when we look at boundaries, I'd say there are two kinds of boundaries. There are some boundaries that stay constant. There are some boundaries that become flexible. Okay, so when when you look at boundaries that are constant, there are some things that you do not. They don't change those that are they're not changing that they're unchanging boundaries like for example, you know, honesty or respect or, you know, certain values that you have that's something that you will you continue to hold on to no matter what the age is or no matter what they are, what they may be, you know, even even if they've grown up, there are certain boundaries will not change depending even even if it depends on the certain conditions that they may be in like, you know, simple things like like like we said, you know, maybe no stealing, no, no abusing, no insulting, no, no dishonesty, no lying in all of that becomes firm. The ones that are flexible the boundaries that are flexible are those that that depend on maybe their conditions like specific specifically let's say for little children you have certain boundaries or maybe at the time that they go to sleep or you know what they eat before going to bed or what kind of maybe for teens, you know, what are their curfew times or, you know, the kind of maybe the friends that they go out with or certain places that they go out with so that becomes flexible because as they grow up, you know, such boundaries can be shifted can be changed. And it is important to be to to understand and be explain these boundaries to them. Now, coming back to your question, Charles, with this with this big issue of the internet and their studying that's there, that that needs to be boundaries that children need to be aware of. Okay. Despite now in the last two years, I know it's become a huge challenge for all of us who've been parents to build into these boundaries, because in some way or the other, there are certain loopholes that children find to do that. But I think that's where we not only monitor, but also also make them accountable. So, you know, so and I think it's perfectly okay in spelling out those boundaries. What are the number of hours that they could probably use the internet. What are the some of the things that they can get that they can engage in, letting them know that they can be frequent checks on their phones or on their on their laptops, letting them know that, you know, talking to them about the dangers of of having such, you know, such an entire world of information right in front of them. You know, educating them about things like pornography, things like dating sites, things, you know, strangers that that can that can lurk upon you, it is important to get into a conversation. And these are all part of teaching and discipline and boundaries and helping them see that, you know, these these things, there are certain things that if they move into can be destructive. There are certain things that are constructive and, you know, navigating that alongside with them so they may not be a shortcut answer saying that, you know, you do this this this and it will all be well it is not that way, because they will be bound into temptation, but so tying into my earlier point of building a relationship keeping communication open actually helps to journey through these difficult points of time. Will they make mistakes? Yes, they will make mistakes. Will they fall? Yes, they will fall. Will they cheat and play an extra game or do something else? Yes, that will happen. But for us as parents to be intentional about taking these instances discussing about them helping them through it is what we are called to do. All right, so it is a journey. It's not something you can do within a day or two. There may be many times you can discipline them before they get it right. Okay, like for example, you know, we've kind of structured time for our kids on on when they can use the Internet, but there are times that it spills over. But I know I'm sometimes like these, you know, like these matrons that that is constantly keeping a watch but yet trying to, you know, stay away. But it is important to go back and check with them. So I may not peer into what they're doing, but I will ask them, you know, what was your Internet day today or what how much of time did you use? What did you use it for? And there are times they've been honest at times that they've lied. I've caught them caught that on them. We've spoken about it. So it is an up and down. But I believe it is a journey that that really helps us as parents to learn to deal with these issues as well as for children to want to come to a place of obedience and learning to please parents in in things like this. Okay, I hope I answered your question, Charles. Okay, I have a question by Sam shed some light on physical punishment for disciplining spread the road. Okay, I will talk about that. And I think it's there as part of the thing. I will talk about that, Samuel. I'll just go back to Harrison's question. He said, something struck my mind when you mentioned that parents are the greatest teachers but I will love to ask what is your take on the trend in Europe where children are taken away from their parents all for the sake that the parents cannot take care of the child. Okay, so Okay, now this I'm going to give you a personal take. All right, and I know it may be very different in different cultures. But I think personally what I would say is the best place for children to be in is their homes. It's still a point of time that they can be independent of themselves. Okay, parents not taking care of their child. I believe it's not an option, because they have been given to us as, like I said as as a loan, and we've got to invest well into their lives equip them well before they can step out on their own. Okay, my thoughts are that it is the parents job, the responsibility that's why they're given to us to be able to nurture, equip, train, develop them to a point of independence so that they can work on their own. That's my personal take and I do not subscribe to the fact that you know if parents cannot take care of the children they're either given off to the grandparents or to foster homes or to hostels I personally don't prescribe it. But I know that maybe situations are very different for different people. Like maybe you know in some homes it's a single parent looking after four or five children, and it can be a difficulty. And so we need to empathize that they may not be in a state to do so. But if all is well, if parents are responsible enough, healthy enough, able enough, I think personally it is something that we are called to do it is a responsibility that we that is given to us. It is a ministry like we said it's a ministry it's a calling, and we should be we should have done the job as best as we can with the Lord is our support so that's my take on that Harrison. Okay. All right, so shall we close for a break for 10 minutes and we will get back we'll start with talking about Sam's question and then we'll take it from there. Have a good break.