 Today we're gonna talk about Alex Murdoch and Greg when it's just about the videos we're gonna watch Yeah, so these videos are from right after the police showed up to the murder of his wife and son so Just start the top take your time Like when I came back here, I mean I pulled up and I could see him and you know, I knew something was bad I ran out. I knew it was really bad My boy over there I could see it was And I could see the Maggie and Actually, I think I tried to turn Paul over first You know, I tried to turn him over and I don't know I figured it out His cell phone popped out of his pocket Started to try to do something with it thinking maybe but then I put it back down really quickly then I went to my wife and I Mean I could see Did you touch Maggie at all? I did I touched them both I try to take I mean I try to do it as limited as possible, but I try to take their Pulse on both of them Chase what do you got? Immediately as this clip starts and he's apparently just found his family who'd been killed instead of grief or Sadness or even confusion. We're seeing full body fear and All I'm gonna do is break down the first 18 seconds of this video. It's it's I think it's a minute and a half two minutes long That's all I'm gonna do here So let's go over what the fear does to the body just really quick The first thing is these muscles right here at the sternocleidomastoid muscles They jump out in front of the carotid artery and you'll see it when somebody has that expression You go watch a compilation on YouTube people getting the crap scared out of them. You'll see that then the shoulders come up Then the humorous bones Come in toward the body and there's a natural tendency to protect the wrists and other joints By bringing them either closer together or closer towards the the body Facing away as much as possible from a potential predator Many times the lower limbs will move toward the groin so like the arms and men and covering the uterus area and women although I think there's Some difference here in the genital protection. It's more likely to be during three key moments when you see genital protection in your future It's when someone is feeling vulnerable Threatened or insecure those are the typical three times that you'll see genital protection The rib cage lowers down slightly so you see this posture go down We don't have bones protecting the soft organs in our belly So this forward crunch is almost a way to bring those bones in front of those soft organs Then the muscles in the body during fear become more rigid. It makes the overall human being More hard to attack and keep in mind. This is an analysis of the first 1.5 seconds of the village video Right after this he says my boy over there I could see I could see I saw Keep in mind as you go through all these clips the difference in someone telling you versus selling you So what's the difference between I could see my ball on the ground and my boy was on the ground One of them is an experience and one of them someone is telling you a story So as you watch these keep in mind that someone who has done something potentially like this will often just Show feelings of regret or shame or loss or sadness So being the killer does not make you immune to sadness or crying or anything like that and finally when a Dramatic event happens and somebody asks what happened people who are innocent almost never Defaults a chronologically telling you step by step the details of precisely what happens and their internal motivation to make Decisions is never explained. I did this because of this and because of that This is the most red flags I've seen in one video in a long time and I promise I won't go this long on the rest of Scott What do you got? All right, go as long as you want dude. That's good stuff I want to pay attention to three things as we're going through these videos number one Let's pay attention like what Chase was talking about the growing protection number two his blink rate and number three that Kleenex he's got because Well, we'll get into that in a few minutes, but let's pay attention to those things the first time We see his his cry face kick in it Disappears instantly the second time the time it kicks in it lasts a little bit longer But it it it goes away Not really fast but fairly fast and there are no tears Now when something like this has happened when somebody's just seen their wife and one of their children dead They're gonna be crying. There's gonna be a whole lot going on But he fact he wipes his face like he's wiping tears We don't see the head shakes nose quite often when someone has seen something like that Or they've been even told something like that that horrible that horrible has happened They'll sit there and they'll rock back and forth a little bit and they'll be doing this So they'll be shaking their head no because they don't understand why this happened We see no grief in the grief muscle up here We see no knitting of the brow so many things are missing from that his voice after this initial Engagement where it looks like he's laughing that buddy's crying Goes back to normal as cadence goes back to normal his voice tone volume go back to normal His diction is spot-on Everything goes back to just like you just like you would if everything was just fine Then he straightens out his Kleenex, but he doesn't use it And that's this is gonna be part of his show as he goes through Part of the one that uses it as an adapter a couple times, but he just goofs around with it So he gets a little bit loud as that before with that performance of the with the Kleenex And then it starts going away it starts getting quieter and quite often when a person has experienced something like this That's so horrible. Their eyes will be fairly wide His aren't really wide his mouth of their mouths will be open their eyes are gonna be red and their hands gonna be together They're gonna be like rubbing them or classroom and wringing their hands because they they don't understand why some Harbors happen and and their brain is just like hey, man Let's not freak out here. So they'll be rubbing their hands together. We don't see any of that nothing and I'll leave it there. There's so much there. I can go up two years mark. What do you got? Yeah, yeah, I mean we could talk for an hour on just this one alone. It's bonkers I'm just gonna tell you one thing a Gesture that really stood out to me, which I don't I rarely see anywhere else than in a Michelin starred kitchen And and that is the gesture of finishing salt when you when you put finishing salt over something when he crud When he cries Here's something. I've never seen anybody crying do to put their hands up here and then rub their Fingers together to see if they've got tears or not to see if there's any wet go back Take a look his hand goes up and then you see him do this. It's Bizarre that alone that alone because it's an outlier in Anything that I've ever seen anywhere in the world So that alone Causes me well other than you know at a really nice restaurant, you know And sometimes they'll do it from a height as well if they want to be really fancy about it. Yeah exactly like so Yeah, so that alone for me causes me to go, okay There's something going on here because I've never seen that gesture Anywhere before and certainly why do you need to check if you've got tears or not somebody who's really somebody who's You know loved ones have died. I'm not checking to see if they have tears or not Greg. What do you got on this one? Yeah, so this is a rare one for me because right out of the gate my BS meter is just wide open I could just stop right here and we could be done with this video. I if you stole my bicycle I would probably be more upset and this guy appears to be at the beginning of this video and I haven't rid of bicycles It's 2003 so just to give you an idea this guy doesn't show any animation No sense of urgency can we get to the facts? Can you help me that none of that? He's just waiting to tell his story that that's an odd start The other one is think about the last time you went to a funeral where people know the person is dead They see the body and you see them an hour later their eyes are bloodshot their nose is kicked Nothing nothing. That's a red flag for me as well. This is right after right after he found his wife and son That's a big deal There's also in the beginning chase you're talking about his anger, but I hear his fear But I also see him rocking is he listening Ozzy Osbourne in his head or doing something as he's getting ready for what's to come What you don't know because you didn't clip this video is just before this There's just who are you getting names and all that straight then the rocking starts and that's preparation for what's about to come And then he goes as it leads into it. Why why um why um? Don't have to have an answer. We just have to know there's something going on You look I with a sword thing when I fight I ramp up by doing something too I might rock my body and do that kind of thing a lot of people who fight do that martial arts folks do it But we don't usually associate with telling a story. It's not usually how we go I also said remorse doesn't mean you didn't do it and look if you killed your child They didn't expect to do horrific things to that child the things he describes You might still show it now There's also a study from 2012 at the University of British Columbia That shows that the best way to tell when somebody is truthful or not about things like this is that That grief muscle we all talk about that we say Darwin and Dushane originally called it that for ease of discussion It's that little arts that we see up here That isn't ever present in folks who are lying it rare it rare in folks who aren't lying who are lying What you see instead is this whole frontalis this whole set of muscles here draw down does that look familiar and If I remember the muscles here the zygomatic major I think they're referred to as the ones that tie off from your cheeks to make you smile A containment of that so that it can almost look like a smile Hmm that sounds awfully familiar to what he's doing Go look at that study what they don't see is all this engagement in the forehead They see that down and this engagement of these muscles at the side He goes down the well you guys know I always say when a person's trying to cry they go down the well They find a reason they make it As horrible as they can and they can find a reason to cry but no tears come up mark to your point He tries to find it the interesting piece is the people sitting behind him feel it and feel bad for him and go to it interesting Then he says I figured out that he was Dead well I look We're gonna bleep a few words in this thing, but go listen to the real words There's no doubt the guy's dead. You wouldn't even have to figure it out And then he's got a damn straight face all the time for what he's talking about and there's that side It looks like he's almost choking back a smile he goes I tried to take there and he pauses A few beats and then says pulse. There's so much in here Forget the fear forget all the stuff that we're seeing forget the wind up Ozzy Osbourne Everything else here. He's just not compatible with a person who just found and I'll leave it at this people react differently, but not All these different ways and clusters that we're all seeing So you you might be interested enough that this might be all you want to watch But there's a lot more hang on So, um Just start the top take your time Um, like when I came back here I mean I pulled up and I could see him and you know, I knew something was bad. I ran out I knew it was really bad And my boy over there I could see It was And I could see And over to Maggie Actually, I think I tried to turn paul over first You know, I tried to turn him over and uh, I don't know I figured it out. Um Uh his cell phone popped out of his pocket. That's Started to try to do something with it thinking maybe but then I put it back down really quickly um, then I went to my wife and I I mean I could see Did you touch Maggie at all? I did I touched them bow I try to take I mean I try to do it as limited as possible But I I try to take their pulse on both of them And um, you know, I called 911 Um pretty much right away and She was very good. Um I talked to her um, I told her I was going to get off the phone to call some family members I did that um And um, how many family members did you call? You know, I called my brother randy And I called my brother john And I tried to call a little boy real good friend that's right around the corner from here, but I didn't get him All right mark what he got uh, yeah, so uh, you know, I called 911 pretty much Right away Uh, yeah, I don't think that happened at all. I don't think you called 911 straight away. That's all simply from, you know Then then pretty much Don't like those around around. I called 911 just I called 911 immediately. That's that's a good way to say it He praises them the law enforcement. There's there's no he is Son and You know, why for dead? I who cares how good the law enforcement were at that point, you don't care how good how good they were You're not about you're not giving out medals at that point and and look and he's totally taken control of his breathing You know what what you what you saw at the start where he's where I think you're right chase There's there's fear there and I think there's probably a little bit of panic as well But quickly taken control of it. I think maybe those officers in the back give him a bit of You know bolster his confidence a little bit about this is working We can keep see his eyes kind of you know heading off to the side to check out is this is working Is it working? And uh, oh god, it's it's it's a fun it's it's fun stuff I'm gonna keep it at that because there's there's plenty more plenty more to come Chase, what do you got on this one? All right in In this clip, there's a continuation of what you saw in the first one the groin protection has become more pronounced The emotion is gone the chronology the exact precise chronology of detail continues here And the emotional impact of these phone calls is missed There's no emotional impact when talking about these phone calls because a they're Potentially fake the story is fake and b The stress from having to fake this Is causing that emotion not to be there. I think it's unusual that he felt the need to provide a customer review for the 911 operator This might be something in his behavior profile, though That's starting to reveal itself But let's see if there's any other evidence that pops up before my hunch on this Uh dies and I'll dive into that and greg what do you got? Yeah, again, we call that a fig leaf for obvious reasons when a person crosses their groin when a male crosses their groin to protect their testicles primary sex organs This guy's doing what I would call modified fig leaf He puts his hand in his lap and you'll see him moving his hand fairly often But here again, look If I have the opportunity to tell you a story or say hey somebody killed my family and they're still lying right there They're probably close by can we do something to help find them? not and um Yeah, and after that and he's storytelling now and we see it because he says Hultingly Pretty much right away mark to your point exactly pretty much right away not right away not right after that pretty much And then he mouth grooms which we only see a couple of times in this entire thing And we say mouth grooms our mouths get dry when we're feeling stress And lying creates stress in most of us except for those who are talented at it And if i'm trying to hide something, I don't want you to find it I'm going to go and have that opportunity to groom my mouth You'll see it happen a couple of times in this one and he does a long vowel and Then then he goes into chase you were calling it something earlier. I'll call it clearing not steering He's going to give you reasons why he was busy and why you didn't you know all that kind of thing There's still no sense of urgency It I wrote in my notes. I hung up the phone. I scratched my backside and um, and he's just giving you useless details That I would not give a cop if I were trying to find somebody He's navigating out of what to his way through what to say as he goes. She was a good 911 operator The only good thing in this entire thing is he is not feeling stress mark to your point It's a great thing because it gives us some matter of fact stuff I call my brother so we can look at what matter of fact stuff is because this guy's not stupid He's not going to say I call my brother and then you pull his phone records and he didn't guarantee you He called his brother did all those pieces So this gives us a way to pay attention to him as he moves forward and we're going to see it in a couple of other places Scott, what do you got? I agree with you. We're not seeing those things that let us know that there's stress there We're not seeing very many adapters That should theoretically be there from the stress. He's supposed to be feeling or going through it During this we don't see any of that still no no valid signs of grief whatsoever From a body language perspective anyway. There's blink rates still really low He's still covered. He's growing like he was saying and he's still goof around that Kleenex still hasn't used that yet And he never asks why this happened He doesn't try to connect with that with that police officer and you know like you like they'll do they'll sit there They'll look at and go what you know out of confusion. They'll look at and go. What's you know, why what? He never says why he doesn't do any of that This should be so horrific that it should blow his mind That that because he shouldn't be able to understand that But he doesn't have a problem understanding that because I'm one of the impression. He's the one that did it So it doesn't bother him at all. He doesn't need to do that. The most horrible thing that ever happened to him He's not trying to connect with anybody not trying to go, you know, dude, what's going on? What what the hell nothing like that at all Um, his head is is in the space. It should be for what he's trying to do So he's thinking about all the things. He's making sure his story is tight So he's he's relaxing now because he thinks these people believe him You hear that guy in the back coughing like he's got zika or something But that doesn't throw him either, you know, because he's like clearing his throat and do all that stuff as well but his head is right where it should be for someone who is who is who is Confident with Having fooled everyone that they that their their story is being believed. I think so that's what I got And um, you know, I called 911 Um pretty much right away and She was very good I talked to her, um, I told her I was going to get off the phone to call some family members I did that um And um, family members, did you call me? I called my brother randy And I called my brother john And I tried to call a little boy real good friend. It's right around the corner from here, but I didn't get him What all was around um, paul when you walked up blood Any any other anything else? I mean there was some body things. Yes, sir. I mean like any other Evidence, I know you said the phone fell out the pocket. Um, but did you see anything else? That didn't belong or shouldn't belong or That wasn't part of paul No, sir, not no not good No, sir, how about maggie? No, sir. You didn't see anything around them All right, greg, what do you got? Yeah, everything we talk about in everything is about baseline So we start from whatever is normal for the person in the situation again It's not normal for you to sit around in your on your couch eating Cheetos that that baseline We're talking about the baseline you're dealing with when you're asking non pertinent questions So we see some of that we see him starting off with more that same factual baseline And he's fairly normal until until he's asked about maggie. We'll talk about that in just a minute But there's no grimace or distaste or any negative emotion about Blood or body stuff around his son Anybody find that odd? I mean all kinds of people deal with things different ways If you found a dog who had been shot you would probably have a grimace around that not your child Then I will say this we say sudden politeness matters But this is low country, South Carolina That sudden politeness is just politeness in the part of georgia I live in there people who refuse to call me by my first name Because i'm older and so it's just part of the culture just to Point that out and there could be a reason but I don't think it is It's out of character that he retracts the side of his mouth and does some odd thing Odd thing with his mouth he grimaces when he's asked is there anything around maggie He does that he absolutely does not answer the question nods his head a little shakes his head a little and makes eye contact for the first time in the entire video We talk about baseline. We talk about deviations from baseline Ding ding ding I would say hold up. Hold on a minute Why did you suddenly do something different or I'd make a mental note and come back and poke and prod it again and again and again chase what you got This guy's a prosecutor Who which I learned from greg as we were kind of ramping up for this episode on zoom and He's probably tried a bunch of cases This is proof that no matter how many cases you do you don't get inoculated to not Displaying the perfect behaviors all four of us You can go back and watch us through these videos. We get stressed out our blink rate goes up We have the same human responses that anyone else does it doesn't give you some Hall pass to never display these behaviors again when you learn them And that's what we're seeing here a prosecutor who probably thought that he was Inoculated against all of this stuff. He knew what to say He didn't know how to say it and that's the big difference And greg I'm just going to say this this politeness that we are seeing here is a spike And it's not really present anywhere else here And I'm you know, I'm arkansas. My family's off mark itself I see a lot of that but the moment it's just it spikes up higher than it ever does in the conversation So I'm just going to look at it as a one data point not some big thing that reveals anything Right about the specifics concerning the crime scene And he's gone from no emotion and minimal responsiveness to more responsive more eye contact and suddenly using the word sir I would just say this this is a little spike here. That's concerning to me But notice also when he's being asked to think back and go through the crime scene There's no emotion and zero eye accessing we move our eyes around in our our head to access all kinds of details There is none of that here. This is another huge red flag for me scott All right I'm going to talk about one thing when like you were just saying chase when somebody goes back through that and you Ask them a question about what they saw or what happened and they're reliving that because they're there in their brain Seeing it they go into this blank stare almost as they start telling you about it. We don't see that at all This guy isn't doing anything that normal humans would do or that in my experience so far the things that I've seen where a person Explaining what happened or describing a scene or what was going on there doesn't do anything they normally do Or that I'm under the impression they normally do There's there's nothing and you're right, Greg when he connects with them It's but it's not that connection of what the hell there's nothing. There's nothing. I'm going to go back to what I said earlier There's nothing happening here that that says Um, I'm worried about this. I can't believe it. This has got me stressed It's it's it should just be freaking him out and it isn't except for that He tried to pull it off the top with that that fake cry Which we all during the thing we got the giggles all this because it looked like he was laughing If you go back and watch that you'll see I'm talking about But man, this doesn't show anything it should be showing for someone who's gone through something so horrific Mark, what do you think? Yeah, I agree with all can I could can I correct one thing mark before you start? Yeah, I go for it I just double checked he apparently did volunteer work in the solicitor's office So he was a full-time brass skier just pretty much. Okay Yeah, it's just too calm just too calm just too still and it's and it's not the stillness of shock Because the the tension would be in his body. You'd see him stuck there. You'd see some kind of catatonic state He's too soft. It's too cool It's too much like he's on you know, he's sitting on the couch eating cheetos It it's just that kind of softness and rhythm. I totally agree. He's not seeing the scene in his head We don't see any eye accessing. I don't care where his eyes go. I need his eyes to go somewhere Somewhere to search for information Because he would know he's being asked information because there could be a clue There could be a clue that could lead to the perpetrator Right now. He doesn't even bother to go and look for that information. Why because he knows there's no information there He knows there's nothing there that would help them find the perpetrator because they found the perpetrator He's sitting in the car next to them I mean just no shock. No looking to the scene So nonchalant It's extraordinary and so different from what his tactic at the start I think he stopped that tactic because again, he got such a good response from the officers that You know, he thinks it's it's done now and he doesn't need to go back to that tactic there. It's all I got now Greg, what were you telling us earlier? We were going through some things earlier about the backstory on this What else is this guy been into? What else has been going on? Yeah, hold on one second. Yeah, this family is really prominent So his I think it's his father was the last prosecutor but from 1920 to 2006 They held the office of prosecutor for that county. So really big legacy of the legal family He's got some ghosts in this past if you go look he's got some things around like a housekeeper who died That they had some life insurance policy on he's got some other stuff There's a kid who his son went to school with who ended up dying And there was rumor that his son was involved and there was the case was closed But it's been reopened by the district attorney as a result of evidence they found during this case He was estranged from his wife at the time of the murder and if you go read the headlines They say she was lured out to there Apparently he asked her to visit his terminally old father and she said no She wanted to be in public because he was acting fishy. I mean there's a ton of stuff in here Just go out and look for yourself. There's more than one weapon involved There's a ton of stuff in this case. There's just a lot for you to go look at We could spend an entire hour just refuting and figuring out what's on the list of rumors and checklist as chase often says We're not The forensics panel. We're telling you what we see in this video and there's plenty. So this is good enough So greg note to self always get life insurance for domestic help. It's not odd. Not for sure for sure I've never heard of that before. I've never heard of it before but I'm gonna I'm gonna do it. Why wouldn't you I mean Wow I don't just in case, you know I mean, I don't know how they make a bit of money out of your domestic help just in case they died There's so much information out here on these guys I think there's even a lot more like he's got financial crimes that if he were to get off these charges They still got financial crimes to face There's a ton of stuff that they've allowed into evidence. Just go watch Look, I don't want to be the guy who misquotes something. I probably have misquoted some of that But just go read. There's so much out there on this guy. You could spend all day trying to figure out all the craziness going on this case What all was around um paul When you walked up blood Any any other anything else? I mean there was some body things. Yes, sir. I mean like any other Evidence, I know you said the phone fell out the pocket. Um, but did you see anything else? That didn't belong or shouldn't belong or That wasn't part of paul No, sir, not no not good No, sir, how about Maggie? No, sir. You didn't see anything around them What made you come out here tonight? Um, I went to my mom's late stage Alzheimer's patient. My dad's in the hospital Um, my mom gets anxious when she does I went to check on them and Maggie Maggie's a dog lover and she fools with the dogs And I knew she'd gone to the kennel. I was at the house I left the house and went to my mom's Uh Probably just a little while Tried to call her when I left texted her no response um When I got back to the house the house was Obviously nobody was in there. So I figured they're still up here fooling around paul's um Going to be getting set up to plant our sunflower seeds got sprayed and died and he was Refiguring to do to plant the sunflower seeds So I came back up here and drove up and saw and called An id Yeah, I don't know. I thought I thought that was his friend. Hang on a second Up to this point right now we're talking about how we thought the guy in the back seat was was a police officer But it was just odd and greg what did you say about I think it's his friend? I think it's his friend I think it's his friend. I don't remember but I think it's his friend He's got his shirt open like he's robert wagner The only thing he's missing is those little scarves that go there or that would ask what do you call that thing and ask God, was that what's what's the scarf they put on mark cravat? Oh That's all he's missing. Plus they need to get him some kind of covet You know Something on him to this guy man. He's back there. It sounds like something's up with him It sounds like it's maybe some of his last days Oof Okay, sorry about that. I should cut all out. Maybe it's code for shut up. You sound stupid It could be and so I'm gonna say this about him too a little while his knee comes out Look how shiny his knee is. It's almost like a mirror. It looks it looks like it's so weird, man It looks like it looks like a polished piece of wood when it comes out his knee. You'll see in a few minutes Okay, I thought it was a cop. I'm gonna say about it man I hope he's not but she's he's really got his thing together, man All right, uh, Greg, what do you got? Yeah, this is the first time we see him touch his face touches his nose Look, you'll hear people say if a person touches their nose or line No, we're not those folks. What we're saying is look for a deviation in baseline and ask yourself why It's a pertinent question and a hard question. Why did you come out here tonight? Well, that's a good question and he uses his left hand touches his face Suddenly he does one of the most powerful male adapters that exist. I call it butterfly thighs And if you ever want to see men will flip their legs their thighs in and out that way younger men do it a lot It also includes your genitals when you start moving your legs and it has a lot of impact So that's a big comforting move for a guy to do you'll see it a lot in younger sports players When they're being interviewed when you watch them on night shows and that kind of thing All an adapter is is a way for you to release nervous energy And if we do them enough they become habitual So if you don't know what yours are the way you release nervous energy Ask someone next to you ask someone who knows you well because they know what you do when you're releasing nervous energy Maybe you pick your nails flip your hair do something like that Then he starts to tell a long story that has no pertinence to anything we're talking about And that is I went to see my mama my mama's sick She's got dementia and he goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on And he gives you the cookbook we call that chaff and redirect because an aircraft drops chaff To hope a missile will follow it rather than the story. That's what he's doing. He's dropping lots of details hoping you'll follow that and that's Odd usually but again My wife and son are lying a hundred yards away dead somebody murdered them and I'm going to tell you about my mom's Jello she had for lunch come on And he's adapting like all hell with that issue with his hands and with the other He goes to that dog lover. She fools with a dog boom One shoulder rises We hadn't seen that yet. We see a single shoulder We often associate that with discomfort or not comfortable in the information they're sharing He does a pause He does a down left looks down left, which we associate with internal voice And he does a head scratch We associate all of those things with thinking with giving yourself time to think he doesn't say what he saw What he saw over with her either with words or with body language or with tone None of that and I think the female law enforcement officer in the back Senses it because watch her cross her abdomen in discomfort as he's telling that story. I bet if you went and talked to them and say this guy Day one. We thought he whacked her. We thought he killed his wife. That's exactly what I think you'd see Mark, what do you guys? Yeah, there's a cascade of negative statements victim statements really the parents are ill and anxious Maggie's a dog lover doesn't love him loves the dogs She falls with the dogs. That's negative rather than going she looks after those dogs so well If she's falling with the dogs Um, and he's texted her and there's no response So she's not attentive to him and then paul Is associated with sunflowers dying? So again not being able to I mean that will more of this story will come out And maybe he's laying down this story early, but essentially everybody is inept ultimately parents are non functioning wife loves animals and messes around and doesn't answer the phone and paul can't look after sunflowers so really casting A bad light on the victims there and and him being around people Who can't look after themselves or the things that are important or him? This is very different from uh a video that we looked at earlier this week around the The the boyfriend of nicola bully who went missing Maybe is still missing who knows at this point. Um, but in that particular film He didn't create any negative attitude about this missing person No negative attitude about the victim. No, you know, she goes for silly walks with the dog and probably messed up somewhere And so it's so different here again that alone uh Is allowed A loud flag you can't have a loud flag, but I'm gonna say it anyway. It's a loud flag. It's a loud loud flag Greg what do you got on this one? No Chase Yep, I'll go. Thank you Uh, this is detail Overload there's a few things. I want you to notice as you go through the video again in just a second Number one the detail and that there's the chronology of everything is loaded and piled high But none of the details are about finding out who did this There is no request to investigate the scene or talk about the word murder It's the last word in the world that he wants to come out of his mouth at a moment like this And the confirmation glance is back and forth where he's checking that detective with every detail in this clip Especially just to make sure he's buying it are just a classic hallmark of deception It's one of the things we look for when we see a lot of other behaviors and they're outside of baseline Like we're seeing here And when he says obviously nobody was in there, I think he's telling us potentially This my opinion as this entire video is just an opinion I think he's telling us it was obvious to him that nobody was going to be in that house Then finally we have something called severity softening and lack of detail There's tons of minute perfect little details about the intricate process He's going through with these sunflower seeds Then what's the detail on the crime scene? Here's the detail on the crime scene in this video word for word. I came up and saw and called That's the difference between sunflower seeds versus dead family members here scott You know what? Greg when would you Now that you've told us this guy in the back isn't a cop This makes so much sense the way she's acting and do you know what's make it? This is what I think here. I go from my rant But you know what makes me think she knows something's up Think about it for a minute You guys think about this for a second. What's he wearing? A white t-shirt Where's he come from? He's come from Two people who have who have been killed in a it's a bloody crime scene That he's put his hands on that he's been messing with There's no blood on this guy Nowhere and he's not using that Kleenex. He's not looking at his hands to make sure there's no blood He's washed his hands That's what's happened. He's changed hands. Yeah. Yeah. He'll tell you he went back to the house afterward. Yep. Yep. Yep That's what that's what's happened. I don't know if that if that's if he he doesn't talk about it in here Anyway, that's what's bothering her That's why I bet that because she can't see him So it's something that happened beforehand. It's got her thinking something's up with this guy That's what I think that's what I think is happening there. I just thought about that a second ago that Yeah, so anyway, that that's what I think is going on there. But back to the body language part of it After the question, you're right, Greg He touches the middle part of his head there that the middle of his brow there Haven't seen that yet of this other than then rubbing his whole face Then he does this really quick request for approval. That's another one of Greg's things Where our brows go up as you're looking looking to get something okay Or you're asking a question you need some information His his eyebrows go up and he starts adapting. I guess what you call that butterfly thing, Greg Then he starts using his Kleenex as an adapter, which we talked about what happened early earlier We talked about that was going to happen a whole lot of movement in comparison to the baseline We've seen up at this point up to this point because he's been fairly still up till now This is where it makes me think something would be up with this Then he starts going down this list of stuff and his voice is And then this Is this all he's just that's just a list he's rehearsed this He knew what he was going to say when he came into this when this question came up He's he's got his list of things that happened and things that he was going to talk about We see a couple of those little shoulder shrugs a single shoulder shrug here and a single one there and then a full one there But the thing is with shoulder shrugs and you'll hear a lot of things about him But here's what we are in the impression or understand that shoulder shrugs indicate Is when one shoulder goes up Really quickly that that says I don't I'm not sure about this answer I'm not sure what I'm saying if it goes up and stays like it will sometimes it stays for about a second or second half Same with a double shoulder shrug. It stays up for a second. If not, it just comes up and then down really quickly That indicates a person isn't sure about their answer not that they're being deceptive But it just says they're not sure about what that answer is and I think he's afraid He's he's trying to make sure he's covering every basis. He's thinking about that I guess in his brain age thing and okay, I've got that covered. Let me see what else. Yeah, I got that I think as he goes down this list. That's why we're seeing those things But throughout this he still hasn't used that Kleenex for what you use him for And I think he's I think I think he changed clothes. I think he washed up and changed clothes That's what I that's what I think of that one. Let's see what happens. All right. We good What made you come out here tonight um I went to my mom's late stage Alzheimer's patient my dad's in the hospital um My mom gets anxious when she does I went to check on them and Maggie Maggie's a dog lover and she fools with the dogs And I knew she'd gone to the kennel. I was at the house I left the house and went to my mom's Uh Just a little while Tried to call her when I left texted her no response um When I got back to the house the house was Obviously nobody was in there. So I figured they're still up here fooling around Paul was um Going to be getting set up to plant our sunflower seeds got sprayed and died and he was Refiguring to do to plant the sunflower seeds So I came back up here and drove up and saw and called Had Maggie and Paul been arguing over anything. No What was their relationship like wonderful wonderful How about yours and Maggie's wonderful? I mean, I'm sure we had little things here and there, but we had a wonderful marriage wonderful relationship And yours and Paul's relationship as good as it could be How was Paul? 22 You know his date of birth I do. April 11th 96 is his brother's April 14th 99 is Paul's I have about what's Maggie's full name? Margaret Brand Statter Murdoch And her date of birth sir September 15th 1968 Have y'all been having any problems out here? trespassers People breaking in none that I know of the only thing That what comes to my mind as my son paul was in a boat wreck uh a couple years ago and There's been a You know, he was charged with being Arrested for being the driver. There's been a lot of negative publicity about that and there's been a lot of people online Just really vile stuff but When paul's out and about I mean people routinely I don't think I know the full story. Um, so I don't think they give it To me, but I mean he's been punched and hit and just attacked a lot so You know, but I mean nothing like this This is a mistake y'all I tell you there's blood out there. I think might have been two guns. I don't know. He's gonna trust me on that one You cut that out. I shouldn't have said whack, but sorry. Yeah, what are you gonna do? All right chase. What do you got? There's some strange head movement here. There's shaking and knotting mixed together Which you do not see in this culture And I think this is confused On his part of which behavior to display And you can confirm this confusion by the fact that he starts doing what I Call intent checking He's glancing repeatedly at the detective here in this instance to determine what kind of intent the detective has And the angle that he's taking with some of these questions and when he offers this The brother's birthday This is a miniature resume statement here And he's offering the details that suggest that he's a caring and good father See, I know both of their birthdays And I think he's doing that Mostly unconsciously and when there's a question about the trespassers The response to the question is an insertion of ambiguity into the case Think about it If I asked you if strangers come into your house often your answer would be no probably not So I would say this is maybe uh going on mark's uh scale. Maybe a dark medium medium light or a weight flag Did you say heavy flag early? No, it was the sound of it, but I like it. Yeah, okay So this is maybe a volume nine or a 8.5 on the 10 scale flag and I don't know how big this property is which is one of the reasons here. We can call this maybe a A medium flag here. There's an inability to identify a perpetrator. There is no Concern to find out who did this at all. He wants to keep the net Cast as wide as possible for here for what might have happened And he still won't say murder He skips over the murder every single possible time that it comes up every time here mark Uh, yeah, so I love this one where he where is his leg starts getting excited It starts going up and down a bit of the in and out as well They're greg as well But it's it's even more joyous around this idea of introducing the boat story because I think You know, he's now laying down some some ideas of of you know potential Trouble that may lead to a perpetrator and I think he looks off to his side They're not only to check intent but to work out How's my story landing on this one? Is this one? Is this one? I should go a little bit further down that You know my son may well have an enemy Out there. Oh, we also this is off baseline as well. We also start to see His hand nearest to the driver to the to the officer Just becomes more active and I haven't seen his hand that active and that descriptive So I think he's becoming quite excited and buoyant around how this story might work out for him This is off baseline for me Scott, what you got on this one? All right, here's where he alludes to the alludes to the murders being be due to that boat accident That's cold when you're you're trying to blame something on something your son did That's that that says a lot about this guy his personality type And we asked about the when he's asked about the relationship with his son His head shakes and it turned no and then starts turning like chase was saying to like a little bobblehead doll So there's a lot going on there at that point as well And that's probably true that the relationship is as as good as it could be You know As it could possibly be and that's because I don't they probably didn't get along very well So it was as good as it could possibly be because maybe that the child didn't like him Maybe the wife didn't like him because he says the same thing about her as well as good as it could possibly be And he's telling the truth. I think there it was as good as it could possibly be Apparently she's moved out and there's a word you say she was a great living in the what? In their beach house. I read she was estranged in living in their beach house Yeah, doesn't bring that up at all So there's a there's a lot going on there that he's not bringing up So I'm sure it was as good as it could possibly be. Greg. What do you got? Yeah, so I couldn't pay a person to illustrate baseline better than this guy does He's asked two questions about his relationship with his son and about his relationship with his wife And in both instances, he says wonderful But go back watch his body language when he says wonderful When he says wonderful about his son, it's pretty straight body language He says wonderful about his wife now. We know that they're estranged He breaks eye contact moves away to the side His face changes and he is entirely different when he's saying that then He he's drawing away as he says it then he qualifies it. I forget what he says exactly Well, we had our moments and and and And then he gets back into those facts and deliberate language and the minute he gets back into those facts and deliberate language Then he's okay. He's answering factual questions his baseline comes back When he gets down to the mechanics and he starts to tell that boat story His thighs start moving as mark said he starts to march in place with that one foot and his blink rate increases He does a left shoulder shrug again When he says nothing like this. Well, of course, nothing like this. Yeah, they hit him They said bad things to him and never came out and killed him So all this we see a pattern. We see his baseline when he's comfortable We see a deviation and we get a chance to see two very different answers using the same English If if you think that body language is hokum watch that tell me it's hokum Tell me you can't see something that's going on two different messages same words. It's all I got That's a tie Beautiful you take both beautiful Olympics you're taking it so serious Had Maggie and paul been arguing over anything No What was their relationship like wonderful wonderful How about yours and Maggie's wonderful I mean, I'm sure we had little things here and there, but we had a wonderful marriage wonderful relationship In yours and paul's relationship as good as it could be How was paul 22 You know his date of birth I do April 11 96 is his brother's April 14 90 nine is paul's And how about what's Maggie's full name margaret Brand stutter murdoch And her date of birth sir September 15 1968 have y'all been having any problems out here trespassers People breaking in none that I know of the only thing That what comes to my mind as my son paul was in a boat wreck A couple years ago and There's been a You know, he was charged with being arrested for being the driver There's been a lot of negative publicity about that and there's been a lot of people online Just really vile stuff, but When paul's out and about I mean people routinely I don't think I know the full story. Um, because I don't think they give it To me, but I mean he's been punched and hit and just attacked a lot. So You know, but I mean nothing like this So is there anybody That you can think of that we need to talk to tonight Is there a name that comes to mind? I mean, I can't tell you anybody that I'm overly suspicious of Off the top of my head You know, um, I mean this is such a stupid thing. I'm even embarrassed to say it But it just didn't Make any sense. I just hired a guy out here and He's really he wasn't cutting the mustard, but I hadn't told him this yet paul's been working with him a lot He killed the sunflower seeds in our dove field just recently Which is why paul was here doing this. He told paul's story the other day about how when he was in high school He got in a fight with some black guys And fbi undercover team observed him fighting those guys And put him on an undercover team with three navy seals And that their job was to kill radical black panthers and they did that from myrtle beach to savannah And now I really don't think this guy You know Is probably the person but That's just so freaking Yeah, that's kind of far-fetched But he was off today. Okay, he took his daddy to the doctor What's his name cb row Oh chase. What do you got? Right at the beginning of this clip You can see him try to adjust himself to look more comfortable And more relaxed the moment he does this you're going to see his body completely disagree with him It's going to move his hand back almost just without his consent to protect the groin and the femoral artery here And do you know what other emotion that would be coming up here that's missing is anger Anger Would be present here And he's got a huge problem identifying a perpetrator here who did this And he wants to keep the ambiguity as high as possible And I don't think there's any desire whatsoever for them to find for him to get them to find the person that did this And just pay close attention to what is not being said here And I think in my opinion you might hear a murderer talking if you just listen to what's not being said and what's being ignored Greg Yeah, there's no anger. There's no rush. There's no urgency None of that as a matter of fact listen to the cadence of his story telling slow down Slow down. This is What has it been 30 minutes of him sitting in a car? I would be looking for help He gives into you know, there's a new word a new phrase He's injecting that indicates he's comfortable and thinking and talking and that's his filler words starting to come out He doesn't he's not scram. It's not scrambled. It's not compressed. None of that's going on There's more concern in the cops brow and in the guy in the back seat and there isn't his this is his family There's that zygomatic muscle again that we said makes your face want to smile It sure looks like he's almost smiling when he's telling that story Well, we know that earlier what the study said was if your frontalis muscle was down in In sadness and that that was probably an indicator He also starts to turtle chase after he goes back and he gets forced into that position Then he shrinks a bit and we say turtling your head and your torso shrink and make your Target smaller this cadence is unlike anything else we've heard I think it's because he has already been rehearsing this story And he knows what he's going to say this guy who told me this story and Well, if you if you're trying to figure out who to point somebody to you'd have a lot of details When I would just say hey, there's a guy who works for me. He's a little shady. Maybe you want to go check him If that were the case, I don't think that's the case And this is the first time the single first time he's used his right hand to illustrate Anything when he's talking about this guy It's been at his groin as I call it protecting the precious this entire time That's another red flag scott. What do you got? All right Now he's trying to put the suspicion on somebody else He brings in this other guy that that worked for him that he just hired that isn't working out And again, we're not seeing like you were saying greg. We're not seeing things. We should be seeing in here We're not seeing the emotions someone goes through as they Relive this experience of what just happened the most horrible things ever happened to him We don't see that Uncontrollable sobbing no wailing and crying nothing. We don't even see one tear And he has and I've been looking Nothing, we don't see he doesn't tear up. There's nothing in there. There's no tears at all We don't see that detachment you'll see From when someone goes through something that bad. Why I know why this happened going back to that And talking about how good they were. He's not talking about the things. Oh, oh, he loved this Or she loved he she talked about the dogs earlier, but he didn't really focus on that He would be talking about how the things that he thought of her and what they reminded What this reminded him of her she liked to do this and he loved to do that That's what he would talk about a lot, especially with this amount of time going by in an interview like this Right in here's where that usually happens, especially when you're the first you got him in the car And you're the first one's talking to him. That's what you see in here There's none of that none of that none of that's happening He should be distraught if this guy's not distraught He sounds like he's talking about some things that you know, like when we tell stories It sounds like he's talking about something happened last week Guess what happened last week this and then going through it. He just gives us a list Of things and never tears up doesn't use his his Kleenex either nothing's looking the way it should look I keep going back to that But that's I think that's the most important thing here. Nothing looks as it should look Up to now. All right mark. Where do you got? Yeah, this is a beautiful scene. You can't even write this stuff. It's it's genius The uh, the officer says look is there anybody that we should be looking at and while he says that he covers his mouth because he knows I think that he's looking at the perpetrator Right now, so he's even blocking himself to the to the lie of the question that he's asking there This guy comes up with an amazing story. It's it's a brilliant story I I don't know whether he's making it up completely on his on his own or this this guy who had took the day off today Had actually told in this story, but it's a brilliant idea for a story whereby you've got a kid high school kid You know gets in a fight fbicm They've got a whole bunch of navy seals And they go after the black panthers together all the way and I love this line They did that from myrtle beach to savannah. It's just a great I can you know just picture in my head the navy seals in this high school kid Myrtle beach is fantastic. I just all that rough stuff happening in myrtle beach and then all the way down I think they have to go through Charlotte or something like that or charlton or something. I don't know. I can't remember but yeah Yeah, but I'm just picturing the scene there as well the awful carnage Had Up and down the coast that's going on So, I mean what a what an amazing amazing story and and the cop again Like does a double take on it just does it? What the hell's going on here and and and he does say look i'm embarrassed to say this I'm embarrassed to even put this idea forward, but then he goes Um, yeah, I felt that story was a bit off But he did take the day off today Like what a brilliant equation. It's a nutty story Obviously, it's utter nuts, but he did take the day off So I think you should be looking at him. Just brilliant brilliant brilliant logic. Love it. Let's have another You don't know about the fbi navy seal high school recruiter killer teams. Oh, no Everybody everybody knows that story in the u.s. That's like a classic all the way from Oh, yeah, that'll be just I could know because well last time was in my little beach. Nobody bought it up So, uh, well, they have to sell cookies. I think I've talked about there's something, you know We don't talk about them Oh, you're too british. Oh, that's I'm sorry. That was a girl scouts somebody sells cookies Right. I was in it, but they kicked me out for crying So is there anybody That you can think of that we need to talk to tonight Is there a name that comes to mind? I mean, I can't tell you anybody that I'm overly suspicious of Off the top of my head. Okay, you know, um, I mean, this is such a stupid thing. I'm even embarrassed to say it But it just didn't Make any sense. I just hired a guy out here and He's really he wasn't cutting the mustard, but I hadn't told him this yet. Paul's been working with him a lot He killed the sunflower seeds in our dove field just recently, which is why paul was here doing this He told paul a story the other day about how when he was in high school He got in a fight with some black guys and fbi undercover team observed him fighting those guys And put him on an undercover team with three navy seals And that their job was to kill radical black panthers and they did that from myrtle beach to savannah Now I really don't think this guy You know Is probably the person but That's just so friggin Yeah, that's kind of far-fetched But he was off today. Okay. He took his daddy to the doctor What's his name cb row? Do y'all store any weapons out here? Um, we don't store them, but they're You know, they're frequently out here. I need to find out if there were any out here because I know there was a shotgun. There was a 12-gauge shotgun out here Uh I'll have to find out exactly when that was I think it got put up But I'm not positive. What does that shotgun look like? Uh, it was a camouflage No, I want to say it was a banelli or maybe a burrata. I can't remember which brand it is I don't think it was out here. Okay recently But I'm not positive and the shotgun that you had when deputies pulled up. Where did that come come from? I went to the house and I got a gun Probably overreacting, but And was that when you pulled up and saw them? And no, I mean I came out and I mean I called 911 first Talked to them for a little while and then I told her Told her that I was That I was going to go to the house. Okay, and that I would let the artist know when they got here that I had a gun Okay. All right mark. What do you got? Yeah, just one thing which is which is he's really screwed himself now because now he's bringing up the murder weapon How easy was that how easy was that? Gunny guns out here. Yeah, and he's mentioned a shotgun and I'm going to assume from what I heard before as to the condition of certainly one of the bodies that a shotgun was Was used and so uh, yeah He's already bringing up the murder weapon and what it might look at look like and could be you know certain brand um, you know, I can't believe that he's Well, he's not being clever throughout any of this So I don't know why I'm why I was even going to say there that he's been so clever and now he's being so dumb Because ultimately he's been so dumb throughout it. Yeah, that's all I got on that one. Greg. What you got? Yeah, and for those of you who don't know weapons a shotgun is harder to trace as a murder weapon Because it doesn't rifle whatever you're using you can have rifle slugs But likely not what was used and those rifles on the other hand like that blackout that they were using Does create patterning on the bullet. So if you have the weapon and the bullet you can figure out which weapon was used That's part of the reason why that might be an issue This cop is even looking a little frustrated. Look at the at the brow And suddenly this guy talks like a lawyer. Do you have weapons? Do you store weapons there? Well not stored Well, you know the intent of the question but you're answering it that way His hands have moved now to where he's got kind of a little gentle hug going on And he's chatting when he talks about weapons when he starts to talk about weapons His blink rate rises and he starts to adapt as they're talking about This weapon specifically this shotgun you see his foot starting to tap and hop His hand is adapting meaning releasing nervous energy at his stomach And after he's asked specifically about did you have a shotgun? Watch that right leg It is going crazy. His breathing becomes more rapid and pronounced and he even loses fluency As he's running out of words at what he told her his blink rates higher This is a hot spot this and back to why did you come here and a couple of others are real hot spots at this point You got to pay attention when something jumps off the plate. This is a loud red flag mark to use yours Chase what you got Yeah, I've got a couple loud flags here too There's more ambiguity being injected here about the shotgun Ambiguity about the weapon not certainty So and a desire to help the case means that you would specifically state the facts without ambiguity And then he's saying I got a gun. It was probably overreacting He's explaining motive again to perform an action Innocent people don't feel the need to stop the story and explain motive to every action that they take And grabbing a gun after finding family members that are murdered is not an overreaction in this culture That we're seeing here in this video I think he went back to get a different gun Uh that was from the house so he could be holding one Uh when the police showed up in my opinion Definitely not a fact Scott All right, you guys covered everything I was going to cover keep it from being boring. Let's move on Do y'all store any weapons out here? Um, we don't store them, but they're You know, they're frequently out here I need to find out if there were any out here because I know there was a shotgun. There was a 12-gate shotgun out here Uh I don't have to find out exactly when that was I think it got put up But I'm not positive. What did that shotgun look like? Uh, it was uh camouflage um I want to say it was a banelli or maybe a burrata. I can't remember which brand it is I don't think it was out here. Okay Recently But I'm not positive and the shotgun that you had when Deputies pulled up. Where did that come come from? I went to the house and I got a gun probably overreacting but And was that when you pulled up and saw them? And no, I mean I came out and I mean I called 911 first Talked to them for a little while and then I told her told her that I was That I was going to go to the house. Okay, and that I would let the authorities know when they got here that I had a gun Okay What did you do to do when you were in the office or no, I was home. I came home Paul and I messed around I I uh I was up at the house. I laid down took a nap on the couch probably I don't know 25 30 minutes I got up. I called Maggie didn't get an answer and I left to go to my mom's She'd said she might ride with me, but she normally doesn't when I go over there um and I think I texted her And she's very good about answering the phone. So that was odd or calling me back So that was odd, but it wasn't that big a deal Now what time was that What time was what that you sent her a text message Um, I checked texted her 908 going to check on mb right back and then I texted her at 9 47 That must be when I started to come back. I think I called her before that But let me make sure Pretty sure that I called her 9 45 And then I tried paul and then no, I think that was ridin I think that might have been Ridin over there 10-03 I mean my calls are right here. Yeah, so um Obviously, this is when this is when I At 10-06 Yes, sir Anybody else pull some gum You know any water do you Danny? I saw it. I don't need it if you behind Danny's head is um Taste of water. It's not a big deal. Yeah, I got the trials going on right now Yes, yep It's live on that law and crime network thing. Oh really? Yeah and court tv and just about everywhere Yeah, that's cool law and crime. Let's use their stuff. That's we should give him a shout out Yeah, our stuff below. Yep for sure All right, greg what he got Yeah, I'm gonna keep this one pretty short. He's adapting all the way up until he gets to the point They give him a freebie the minute he gets to where he gets to now go back to baseline things that matter Phone record. This is a guy who's smart enough. He's been in the business long enough You know, that's a matter of fact He's just gonna run through it and chase. I'll use one of your favorites You can tell when he relax is because he goes to abdominal breathing. It's pronounced And they've let him now off the hook his brain is relaxed. There's no emotion whatsoever I still what Is missing is a hey, can we just hurry can we get back to this instead of talking about all my phone records? They're matter of record here. Boom. That's it. Scott. What do you got? All right, I think we're seeing a very subtle change in his baseline up to to what we've seen so far His cadence has sped up his voice tone is a little bit higher. He's the most relaxed. He's been so far Still no use of that Kleenex Still garden is growing still doing the same things we talked about the top His blink rate is is still low everything we talked about the top is still going on at this point And I think it's because like you were saying, Greg, this is what he envisioned happening He's done now. He's gone through his list of stuff that he's supposed to talk about You know and while he begins it starts answering You see him lean back and that head goes back and rests up against the head rest back there He's he's relaxing, but I think at the same time. He's sort of bracing himself Begins to back that head rest and his legs start moving back and forth And I think this indicates the stress of this of this specific situation because almost everything changes up to this point And again, they're they're very subtle But those are the things we're looking for and listening for and after that he asked him for gum and water You know, I think that's it's almost like a reward for himself. He's he's he's Crossed the finish line. He's reached his goal. He said everything He's supposed to that he's thought about saying on his list of things. He's rehearsed his story We've heard him walk through and like you were saying chase too many details, man Way too many details for what for what had happened from as we look at this as a whole So I think he feels like he's crossed the finish line and he's like, yeah instead of dunking water on himself He's asking for water. He's chewing gum Which makes sense because I'm sure his his mouth got dry during all that during the nervous parts of it But I think he's relaxed now. So that's why he's his brain is letting him do things outside of that situation No sobbing no You know what happened no hand wringing nothing we should be seeing in here that that We're seeing Here I guess you'd say mark. What do you got? Yeah, so lots of upward inflection paul and I messed around probably and and odd So I think he's unsure around the story He's trying to project at this point not quite sure if it's going to stick Then the female officer in the back says asked him something about time Then we get a down inflection. What time was what? So I think he now knows that he's now going to be nailed down to some times I think some of those times some of the phone information is working for him And I think some of it can't be reconciled if I remember rightly I think he he turns and opens the door and kind of spits out the door or maybe even vomits a bit I'm not not quite sure but there's some kind of opening of the door. I think And so I think there's a he can't reconcile some of the He sees some information that he can reconcile on there and there's some stuff that isn't going to work for him And there may be some panic there So either he has to lean out to block that and have a think about it Then comes back looks off to reconcile like how am I gonna? How am I going to deal with this and then the phone goes away? Uh chase. What do you got in this one? I agree with you guys. Y'all covered a lot of it There's more ambiguity insertion here, but the way that he points to the call log directly and then mentions it That's interesting to me. I'm betting that we find out something is off about this call log the trials going on right now So I don't think he's been on the stand yet. I'm willing to bet that we find something is Interesting about this call log and He calls it out as if it's an offering much like he did with the camouflage shotgun It's an offering. Well, there's something here that you can look at Those two things call log and shotgun were the two things that really stood out to where he kind of offered something up to assist the police that is a Heavy flag For me That everybody thinks I Greg won that one stoned it Yeah, man. The hell is that? The island is you What did you do today when you went to the office or nope? I was home. I came home Paul and I messed around I I uh I was up at the house. I laid down took a nap on the couch probably I don't know 25 30 minutes I got up. I called Maggie Didn't get an answer and I left to go to my mom's She had said she might ride with me, but she normally doesn't when I go over there And I think I texted her And she's very good about answering the phone. So that was odd or calling me back So that was odd, but it wasn't that big a deal Now what time was that? What time was what that you sent her a text message Um, I checked texted her 908 going to check on mb right back And then I texted her at 947. That must be when I Started to come back. I think I called her before that But let me make sure Pretty sure that I called her 945 And then I tried Paul and then no, I think that was riding I think that might have been riding over there 1003 I mean my calls are right here. So um Obviously this is when this is when I At 1006 Yes, sir. Thank you Anybody else pull some gum Let me water do you Danny? I saw it. I don't need it if you behind Danny's head is a Case of water. It's not a big deal. Yeah, I got some This one's hard, but when you first saw Paul you said you tried to flip him over Was he laying on his back or on his stomach? Just like he just like he is so you weren't able to move him. Okay. No, ma'am. Okay And did he help Maggie a lot out here with the animals? He helped everybody with everything Okay, so it was kind of routine for him to be out here as well This place is his absolute passion. Okay I tried to turn him and then I tried and then I checked him and I I mean I think I already knew but I checked him And when you pulled first pulled into the property did you come from this direction where all our police cars are? Or which way did you come in? I went to the house Okay, and then I came from the house this way straight here. Yes, ma'am. Okay I mean where my vehicle was parked is probably is where it was. Okay. Well. No, maybe not exactly, but it was Pretty close because I came back the same route. That's right because you went back to get your shotgun when I came back All right, Greg, what do you got? Yeah, just a few things again No grief not in this forehead not in the sides of the mouth Look, there's lots of ways to show grief. You know, there's all kinds of ways that people show grief We associate that with grief muscle. There's a ton of stuff you can do with your face to show your sad that you're disappointed Something I mean, we know we can because we seem to use those parts of his face So he's not botoxed out of existence. Although maybe that's part of it, but there's not even concern in his brow None none when she's talking about rolling over your dead child None none. This is within moments and I'll say you can be shocked people behave differently But very few people in life chase combat A guy you don't know you find dead like that that has an impact. It has an impact on people There's no renewed emotion no help me He could be talking about a car accident the way he's responded this and then I came out my tail light was busted out It's about what I hear There's no shock at how horrific this is because if I did it I desensitize after I've seen it I probably didn't expect it. Look my opinion. This guy's just talked himself into a hole and and He thinks he's at the end of it because he goes back into ozzy mode He starts doing the yeah. Yeah. Yeah thing the head banging thing again I think he feels like he's at two posts at the end of this thing. Just my opinion. Just what I see chase. What do you got? So this this ozzy thing you're talking about this head nodding at the end here is something I really want to talk about So first we're seeing a repetitive gesture second. We're seeing nodding third We're seeing gum chewing another repetitive gesture if we go off of what They the godfather says joe navarro repetitive gestures are self soothing and He's experiencing a lot of discomfort during this period of of silence and I think unconsciously. He's nodding to both self soothe And to reassure himself that his story is correct and that there's some form of agreement here In the call with him But I had to call the big guns this morning And I wanted to get joe navarro's opinion on this So I sent this video to joe this morning and this is from joe So The head nodding is unusual I suppose one could argue that he is going over in his mind what he just said and it's almost as though He is in agreement or satisfied with what he just uttered But that's pure conjecture One of the things you can look at is the increase in the speed of chewing If you speed it up, you'll see what I mean Now that's not indicative of deception But it is indicative of trying to relieve the stress that follows what he just said and I think It couldn't have been said better than uh than joe said it and that's all I got Mark, what do you got? Yeah, lovely. Um Okay, uh, what I see is his hands leaving frame or almost leaving frame Which is a bigger gesture than we've normally normally seen him do Uh the cop next to him now. I think is is literally revolted by him. There's some Uh nausea going on uh with him when his hand comes over. He looks away. He shifts away um The shotgun comes up again Uh, I think clearly that the journey to the house is important. The shotgun is important The the the nodding I would I would agree, you know, whether it means anything. I wouldn't agree with joe That there's uh a self-soothe And a self-soothe around is my story working. Is this good for me? Is this going to work out right for me? Because I think he's got an officer next to him who he can see is revolted. We see uh the perpetrator here or potential perpetrator Uh, um Uh show disgust when they look over and see the the officer revolted so they know it's going badly for them At this point Scott, what do you got on this one? All right Uh, when she asked him the way about his son the way his son's uh laying Again like greg was saying no emotion He still hasn't teared up and still not using that Kleenex and then after the second questions Question there's so much space before anybody says anything That's when he starts talking and starts using or adding qualifiers and trying to tighten the story up trying to try to try to make It sound more believable And make it sound stronger Then when she asked him which way he came in his illustrators get huge This is the biggest he's used so far. The the other ones were okay But he hasn't used a lot of illustrations But they get really big maybe because he's thinking about her back there And that's why he's doing that to to illustrate for her But they've been extremely limited up to this point his his Voice volume is more relaxed. He gets quieter. He looks and sounds more relaxed Because I think he feels like everything's going well Because he he's under the impression those officers believe him And that guy sitting next to him that police officer sitting next to him. He starts pushing on us. Well, let's go for now with His lip and he's uncomfortable He knows this is it right. He knows something's not right about this But he's playing at school as he could possibly do it But his body his body language tells on him like joan avaro says you could have a poker face But you can't have a poker body And that's what we're seeing there He's doing all these little things that this guy if he if he'd know what to look for like you do now Then he would say whoops. I got to start adding some more qualifiers to my answer So I I think they know pretty much and and again if you'll if you'll keep an eye on that that The woman in the back that that police officer in the back Watch her throughout this Now that I know this other guy isn't a copper. I'm under the impression that he isn't Boy, she just really starts going against this guy. She starts scooching away I'm gonna look at her from the beginning then to the end to see how far away she's scooched away now that we know that I think she's uncomfortable With him not horribly uncomfortable But he keeps eyeing her notes and seeing what she's writing down But he probably believes this guy, you know, he probably believes alex So anyway, that's all I got. We good? Yeah This one's hard, but when you first saw paul you said you tried to flip him over Was he laying on his back or on his stomach? Just like he just like you weren't able to move him. Okay. No, ma'am. Okay And did he help maggie a lot out here with the animals? He helped everybody with everything Okay, so it was kind of routine for him to be out here as well This place is his absolute passion. Okay I tried to turn him and then I tried and then I checked him and I I mean I think I already knew but I checked him And when you pulled first pulled into the property, did you come from this direction where all our police cars are? Or which way did you come in? I went to the house. Okay, and then I came from the house Straight here. Yes, ma'am. Okay I mean where my vehicle was parked is probably is where it was. Okay. Well, no, maybe not exactly, but it was Pretty close because I came back the same route. That's right. Because you went back to get your shotgun when I came back So up to this point mark. What do you think we've been seeing? Yeah, I've never seen anybody so cool in this situation I think I don't know where we are in the in the case right now on this in court But I I'm going to assume that something is going to come up around the journey to the house The shotgun is clearly important within this I'm I'm going to research a little bit more on this extraordinary situation of the high school's kid and the navy seals and the Black Panthers. It's exciting exciting story. Uh chase Well this so far is a video I know for a fact that I'm going to be using for training And I'm no expert on the case or forensics or any of the facts of the case But I'm a behavior expert And I think that we're going to see this play out in court much like it did here in the car with the officers It's going to be a very similar thing where the tells are going to be very similar The baseline is going to be very similar and I think the tells are going to repeat themselves in court I don't think he's been on the stand yet. I'm not I don't know much about the case Greg has given me most of my education about this case, which is very little Yeah, but it seems like maybe some stress in his life caused some sort of psychotic break Of some sort that made this happen, but I don't know Greg Yeah, I don't know what's causing it. I don't know any of that. Let me tell you when we talk about baseline We're talking about normal at the moment You need only to watch these videos to see great examples the one if you go back where he says Wonderful two different ways is a great indicator of why body language matters But more importantly, if you listen to everything he says throughout this You'll hear him with a lot a lot a lot of detail about insignificant events And nothing when it matters when you ask him what he did today. Boom. He goes to the phone He's trying to make a record and prove what he's done However, if you ask him a question about what's on sale at the dollar general guarantee He knows he'll give you all the details about that That is disturbing alone. So too much detail when it doesn't matter not enough when it does and massive loud flags red flags every flag you can imagine When it comes to why did you come out here today? Did you have a shotgun are there guns out here all those pertinent areas? We see massive shifts in body language. We see that butterflying. We see tapping feet. We see touching face We see shrinking you name it. We this is almost like We have a glossary and we're saying hey, would you do this for us and he's a trained chimp Scott, what do you got? This is a great example so far of seeing of Not seeing things we're trying to show you what to look for But same time this is a great example of the things that we're not seeing that you should be seeing In other words, you're looking for things you're not you're not seeing and so we're not seeing the emotion We should be seeing we're not seeing the the Proper rocking we should be seeing with the hands Ringing and the crying and things that those things are missing. All right fellas. I think this is another good one And we'll see you next time I don't think so Chase, what do you got? I'm beginning to flip You sound a little bit like him chase See, I started it sort of looked like him too Ah, that's funny All right, we can wait just take your time I'll let it all this out Nobody'll ever see this man. Those bars are really dense. It's like chewing a whole bag of gummy bears We'll wait. Yeah, that's fine for anyone watching. I just want you to make note of scott's condescending eyebrow raise It's baseline Go ahead you ready sure if you're ready. All right Right here in the beginning I'll take it out