 Welcome to the Roma Theatre Retrospective 2020, produced by the Interdependent Theatre Hungary for the Howran Theatre Commons. Although Roma are the largest minority group in Europe, they still experience high level of racism and have to deal with many societal issues. Additionally, Roma are being represented in a very stereotypical way in media and art world. The Roma Theatre has more than a century long past with active professional theatre groups in many European countries, but unfortunately they are still hardly known. The Roma Heroes Theatre Festival initiated by the Independent Theatre Hungary is the only international Roma theatre encounter in the world which have been organised in every year since 2017. Some of the present artists and their work are introduced in our series. Today my guest is Mihaela Dragan and Zita Moldovan, the co-writers and performers of the play called Who Killed Somnagranca? Hi ladies, how are you? Hi, hello Judy. Nice to see you again, even if virtually. Yes, it's nice to see both of you. So let's start, I ask a question and then you decide who is the one who will answer. And then also Mihaela, if you can translate then we are very happy about that. Yes, sure, no problem. Okay, so could you please summarize very briefly what is the play about? How did the idea come? Who inspired you? Okay, maybe at this question Zita would like to answer and afterwards I will continue. Zita, if we can talk a little bit about the play, who inspired us to write and perform in this play, you can talk a little bit about the background. And I will translate, but be careful to take a break. Yes, I will try to sympathize so that I don't talk too much. The play came a little while after the Juvenile Pen was released, it is our second play. We were inspired by a real story, Somnagranca. So this was our second theater play that we staged in our theater group in Juvenile Pen. And the story, the screenplay is based on a true story. I was in Hargita to film this case. Then after about 10 years, in 2017, we made this play together with my colleagues. I wrote it all, it was a collective writing, the director of the department, Mihail Lukacs. But the writing was collective, each actor participated in writing this story. Both me and Mihail, both Ms. Leana Ceterchi. So as I say, the play is starting from a true story, a Roma girl from Hargita, the Transylvania part from Romania, where Roma-Hungarian people are living there. And the story is based on this act of resistance, if you want. This is how we like to see the Somnagester, because all the story is created around her. It's a Roma-Hungarian girl from Romania who, in 2007, she decided to commit suicide. And before she left this world, she wrote a message on the wall, I am the school. And this is why we like to see her gesture as an act of resistance. And Zeta, because she also has a TV show, a Roma TV show, when this happened, she went into the community, into the Roma community to meet her, when the tragedy happened. She went there to investigate all the cases. So, yeah, this is somehow her connection with the story, because she was there as a TV, as a journalist, to find out about the causes who determined the girl to commit suicide. And because also it was a hot topic those time in the papers, and everyone put blame on the parents. So Zeta wanted to give more context through her TV show. And yes, and 10 years afterwards, we decided to do the play, because I also heard about this case. It's a case well known by Roma people in the Roma community in Romania. So always intrigued me what happened. So somehow it started from us, because we knew about this case, and we wanted to write a play about the story of this girl, Somna Granca. And as Zeta said, we were co-writers to this place, like all the performers who are involved. Me, Zeta, and the other actress, Liana Cetirchi, together with the director, Mihail Lukacs. So it was a collectively written play. And we both performed many characters in this play. Thank you. Can I also ask you to share some words about Giublipen? Zeta, do you want to speak a little bit more about Giublipen? You can say it now, because I don't know. So Giublipen is a Roma feminist theater company that we have created at the end of 2014, beginning of 2015. This is how we started that year with this idea of having a feminist Roma theater group made by professional Roma actresses. We are the only theater company, Roma theater company from Romania, but there are also in the last years also appeared other actors that made Roma productions. So we are very happy that many other Roma actors, they get inspired and they are doing on their own theater pieces on Roma topics. And we have a productions theater shows in our theater company. We showcase our performances nationally and internationally. All these years we receive many awards and we are grateful for every appreciation that we receive, even if it's from our country or from abroad. And now we militate for the founding of a Roma theater state theater in Romania. This is our goal, our permanent goal to find a theater with a real building for all the Roma professional theater makers in Romania. That sounds good, that's like a good goal. Yeah, it's a long way, but yes. I would like to ask you a bit more personal question if I can. So as Romani women, both of you, I would like to ask what were the biggest challenges you had in your life and in your career? I would like to ask you a bit more personal questions and I would like to ask you about the biggest challenges you had in your life and in your career. And I think it's good if both of you can answer. Yes. So, yeah, I will translate enough so I will answer. There have been many, I don't think we have time to talk about them all, both as Roma women and as Roma actors. But I can remember a few things that I remember now. I, at least as a Roma woman, had something to do with what the majority of people wanted and what the Roma community wanted. At the same time, these things were beaten up, and at the same time, I think that Mihaela and in general, the Roma women who probably want to do something or have a career, especially in the artistic field, are at the same time, if you want, between the two of us? They play with each other, between the two of us, they get together, exactly, we were talking about the relationship between the two of us. But I don't think only women who have a career, I think women in general, who at least want to get out of this context. I, yes, I confronted many theories with the Roma community, a little more traditionalist and more conservative. Being a TV presenter, I had a lot of events in which they called me to present those events, after which they were very unsatisfied with how this happened. This was a big problem for them. Why didn't the day seem to be long? That's why I created my own line of events, so that there is no doubt and that there is nothing to comment on. This is a fact. And on the other hand, we are seen, as we are seen in this world of majorities, when you talk about the Roma women, they have to have a certain typology, to come from, I don't know, from a more civilized world, they have to stay in the community, they have to make lots of children, they have to get married, they have to, they have to, they have to. If you don't align these standards anymore, then it's famous in the public. Come on, you're not Sigan, you're a puppet, no, no, no, you're something else, you're something else. And then there's always this battle and this thing, from which we try somehow to get out, to show ourselves all the time, to show ourselves, and at the moment it becomes very annoying. We don't get tired of it and we just do these things and we try somehow to come into the thinking of those who still don't know us and talk so much about us, who still don't know our history, don't know our traditions, don't know our culture, but still give us time to think. Okay, so I think, yeah, what Sita said is like issues that every Roma woman confirmed, every Roma woman that wanted to make her voice heard in the society. So one of the biggest challenges that she met in her life and her career as a Roma woman, is like that many times she felt catch between two worlds. And one of the world is the Roma community that put her in many times in a, yeah, maybe it's not to exaggerate to say humiliating positions because they were, they have so many, they were expecting so many things about her, for example, being a moderator, a TV show woman, and she met this conservative perception that she should dress in some way in order to be taken into serious as a Roma woman, she has to wear only long skirts and so on. So this is why she created her own line of clothes, Romani dreams, because like everyone was obsessed with the way in which she was wearing clothes at TV, because she was supposed to represent the whole community at TV, so she had to wear only long dress and she said, no, I can be a Roma woman and I also can wear mini skirts. This is why this is the reason for which she created this fashion line. And on the other side from the majority she has confronted a lot of ignorance, because like the majority, they have a lot of prejudices regarding Roma women and how they are submissive and so on. So, yeah, I think this is a very valid point for us as Roma women, many times we feel catch between two worlds, and it's very difficult to find ourselves, our true self. Yeah. And for me, one of the biggest challenge that I confronted, I will say more in my career because Zita focused more on our lives, our daily lives as we as, and I will say that it was at the beginning it was very difficult for the for the gadget for the ignorant audience to to perceive as in our theater company as professional and many times when we heard people talking about us, they said that we have a lot of talent because we are Roma, but we didn't graduated an acting theater school. So this was one of the biggest in source I think that we have received because like professionalism. It was a label that it wasn't sticked or associated with Roma people, but talent yes they think that we have natural talent and we don't have to work as all the artists work or research or write or read about the topics that we want to approach in our place. So, yeah, and another challenge I think it was also like being the first theater company here in Romania, everyone wanted to put us in this label of social theater like what we do is social is like kind of yeah social tool and we try to explain them that you know what we do is also art because we also use a lot of performative resources and creative ideas and experimental ideas we are not social we are not only a social tool because we talk about Roma people and you think that Roma people are a social problem so this is why our theater is social. We think that all theater is political even the mainstream theaters they are political, even if they don't want to admit this. So it was very difficult to to educate the audience regarding what Roma theater products it is that it's also, you know, has to be put on the equality with the with the whole theater that is doing here and many times we say that what we do is it's something that we don't see in the mainstream theaters because they don't want to upgrade themselves. Thank you just to connect to this question I would also ask you what what are your principles in your artwork or to show a bit like further details about your artwork. Yes, so we spoke many times about this, our principles are feminists like our feminist education was developed in parallel with our theater education. So, every time when we do a play we do a play from feminist anti racist reasons because we have a message to transmit to the world in our theater company, everyone is paid equally. We never the director has received more money than us because we know that this is this hierarchy between the director and actors that the director is the biggest figure and should receive more money and should be paid more than us but we we in our theater company we never do this and we yeah this is one of the principle like equal payment like feminists and anti racist views, and we also want to give space for new voices so even if me and Zeta we co-founded the group in our theater company we have more than 15 collaborators and we work a lot on this idea of yeah trying to form people to take our place more yeah of leading the theater group. Zeta asked us what are the principles we work in the company and we said Yeah, there is something. Do you want to add something? No, no, no, no, I said everything is ok. And you can add anything. Okay, just to go back a bit to the play. So you mentioned that the message is important in your artwork. So I would like to ask what's the message of who kids on the grandchild and you mentioned that it's an act of resistance and it's related to school. Can you please a bit elaborate on that. Zeta asks us about the message of the play because I said that it is connected to education and that it is an act of resistance and we want to develop a little bit of this point of view. I don't know if you said that, but I forgot to say and I will say now that we made this play really inspired by reality. But it is a fictional story, we fictionalized it. I don't know if you said that. Yes, the message of the grandchild between the truth before making this act of suicide has written that school is me. The message from my point of view is very clear. Only that many times, in the case of Somnia Grancia, Somnia Grancia is a case that we saw and wrote and made known. But I'm sure there are many more cases that are not so well known and that may still be fought to go to school. Because school and education, although in Romania it is said that it is free and that the whole world has access to education, things don't stay that way. We all know that the access to education is not treated the same for everyone, especially when it comes to Rome. In the case of Somnia, yes, in fact, this was an act of revolt, of courage, of writing all the stories and all the stories and all that has passed through this simple message. And I think it has lived in these two worlds. Once the world in which the school was going, teachers, colleagues and so on, who probably saw it in a way, and it was that exception that was going to school. On the other hand, in the community it was not well seen because the school was still going. And it wasn't a normal thing. It was a little messy thing because the girls at the age already had to get married. And then she didn't get support, I think, from one side or the other. Now the press has exaggerated a lot, giving the blame only on the parents, saying that the parents are barbarians, I don't know what they wrote there. But we all know that the press in Romania is a press of poor quality that only writes prostitutes. Now when it comes to Rome, it exaggerates even more. When we talk about Rome, we have to exaggerate, otherwise we can't write an objective. Okay, so Zita says that the message that we wanted to transmit, first of all, is the Roma girls and Roma children in general, they should have access to education. Even if always we are told that the education is free, like nobody talks about the poverty or about the prejudices or segregation that Roma children are confronting in the schools, the discrimination of the teachers and so on. And she speaks about Soma also as a Roma girl that she was in between two worlds. One of the worlds was her conservative family because she came from a very traditional community where the girls at her age should be mothers and wives, but instead she wanted to go to the school, so she had to fight for her right to education with her own family. But on the other hand, when she went to the school, like what she received was segregation and discrimination, and this thing wasn't taken into consideration because afterwards when she committed the suicide, the whole press, as I said before, put blame on her parents trying to essentialize this culturalism that is a Roma culture to not let girls to go to the school and not put it, and they didn't put the president put out all the whole thing in the context and the racist society in which we live, you know. And Zita mentions that this is a press problem in Romania because they are always exaggerating the news about Roma people, and they present us in a very barbaric way, like we are primitive, we are barbarous. This is why Somna's parents didn't want to leave her to the school, but they never had a criticism regarding the society or the school or the teachers or the racist colleagues and so on. So this is our, if I have to add, what does Zita say? This is our message that we want to transmit to all the Roma girls that they have rights, but also to criticize the society because like we can't fight individually, we need a system that is protecting us and our lives. So yeah, this is one of the messages that we, and Somna gestures for us. It was an act of resistance when she wrote on the wall before to commit suicide. I am the school for us. This was the significance that Roma children, they have a right to go to the school. Thank you. I have, my last question would be, because we, our time is. Sorry, we talk a lot. I really like what you are saying, so I think we could have this interview for like hours. Okay, but like my last question is what's your future plan or goals regarding your career also in your life and it's a question for both of you. Yes. What are our plans for the future, whether it's about our life or our career? Well, first of all, we are very enthusiastic and very worried. We hope to be able to succeed this time, to become the state Roma theater in Romania. This is because I recently won an important award with Juvlipen. I don't know if you said it, I don't think you did. Yes, as they say, it's not that important for us, but it's important for our recognition and for the recognition of our work and the Juvlipen theater. And in the continuation of this process, well, we started doing the theater company. We had a plan, as well as a goal, to become the state Roma theater, but it's very difficult. We still don't let ourselves be defeated and we want this to be our goal in the coming years and we hope to succeed. Personally, I don't know, I have so many professional plans. I think this is the theme with the staff. But I hope it's good to be healthy and, first of all, that's what I want the most and the rest will be good. So Zita speaks about that our future plan is coming from the past somehow. And I already spoke about our project to found the state Roma theater in Romania. And now after we won a very important theater award in Romania. That recognized us and our activity as a Roma theater company. We even more we try now to put pressure on the cultural and political authority to found this state theater. And yeah, and this is one of our near future plans because we are just writing letters after letters to the politicians to the cultural minister and so on. And yeah, this takes us a lot of time. And personally, she said that we don't have so much time for our personal lives because it's a lot of we always have a lot of work, but she the only thing that she hopes is that we remain healthy in all this context of the pandemic situation. Yes. And I will add a little bit more. And I will say that, you know, yeah, like, yeah, because like due to the pandemic, we can't perform any of our shows. And this is a problem. So somehow we, we read that our projects and now we are doing some digital stuff like we, we are on the point to start the TV show me together with Zita on online on digital platforms. And Zita is working hardly at her new collection fashion collection. And I also have to do some video artworks where I will try to develop this concept of Roma futurism. And personally speaking, yeah, as Zita said, I think we have a lot of a lot of work, even now in the pandemic, but I really, I really hope that the next year will be more easy. Yes. Thank you. Good luck with your, with your plan. Thank you. Thank you for the discussion. Thank you too, Judy. It was nice to see you. Thank you. Nice to see both of you. And now you can see the performance called who killed somna grandchild co written and performed by Zita Moldovan and Mihaela Dragan. Enjoy the show. Enjoy it.