 Are you going to stream? No. Okay. I am too fast, mainly. Sorry, Johnny. So if you don't mind, I'll go through the reading of the policy of the Linux Foundation. Linux Foundation meetings involve participation by industry competitors, and it is the intention of the Linux Foundation to conduct all of its activities in accordance with applicable and trust and competition laws. It is therefore extremely important to adapt in these meetings and genders and be aware of and not participate in any activities that are prohibited and actually for the state level of foreign entrants trust and competition laws. Examples of types of actions that are prohibited at Linux Foundation meetings and in connection with the Linux Foundation activities that are described in the Linux Foundation and trust policy. If you have questions about these methods, please contact the company council or if you're a member of the Linux Foundation, then please contact Andrea of the Gold of the firm, and Gassman of the Gold Relief, which provides legal counsel to the Linux Foundation. Hyperledger is committed to creating a safe and welcoming community for all. More information, please visit our Hyperledger company. Okay, I'll leave it on to you, Mr. Ravi, to explain to all of ourselves to see what to do and what CREETC deals with. It's our pleasure to have you here today, by the way. And please take the stage. Thank you. Thank you, Andrea. I really appreciate your introduction. And thanks everyone for being here. Lovely Tuesday afternoon. In Bangalore, we are enjoying a very pleasant weather after a series of rains. So hopefully we will have such weather continuing, I believe. Quickly, this presentation, I want to cover a little bit about beyond trade finance. All of us, we have seen multiple trade finance platforms addressing a very smart way how they are solving the internal global trade related issues when it comes to the question of trade finance or multiple platforms. But I want to take a time a little bit outside the core trade finance platform and then see what are all other value acts of blockchain technology like Hyperledger Fabric that can contribute to it. So this is the focus, like last couple of years we have been doing that. So I thought today I wanted to take some time to present our experience and what we have been doing with all of you. So I'm Ravi Jagannathan, founder and CEO of CREETC Technologies. We started CREETC Technologies in 2016. It's a five-year-old and we have about experience of delivering 54 use cases with many plus of them in life. We are team of 40. Mostly we have a very strong cryptography, you know, engineering background. We have been working together last decade plus and this venture was started five years ago, but collectively we have got together working experience of 10 plus years and we are Hyperledger certified organization, we are a head CSP and our focus is primarily on developing IPs and products rather than just giving services and walking out because we believe that blockchain technology is not like you just deliver and come out. It has to be beyond that. That's why we thought we should be focusing more on an IP and product and probably few of the products or IPs are walking through in this presentation. We come with a very strong R&D tradition because our objective with which we started CREETC was to make sure that we are able to take any tough technology to the street so that enterprises, government, consumers, everybody can use the technology without much challenges. So for that definitely we need to have some R&D mindset so we continuously do R&D to make sure that we are bridging that gap between the complexity of technology and the end user applications or end user solutions. Fortunately we have a Fortune 500 clients as part of our client portfolio. So we started in 2016 as I was mentioning we have closed about 30, 40 clients, 30 plus clients as of now, 20 plus applications went live. That's in nutshell about CREETC. So quickly coming to the trade finance and beyond that I was referring to. So if you see the trade finance end to end so whether it is an exporter to importer in between there are so many constituents who are part of the trade finance ecosystem all of them play a very significant role and the process itself is very highly it has to be a secure and very trustworthy ecosystem because you are dealing in millions and millions of dollars worth of consignment that is flowing from one party to the other party and in between there are multiple intermediaries who are handling those consignments and documents and a whole lot of stuff. So it's a very tough ecosystem but currently whatever technology based trade finance platforms that we have typically it automates the trade finance business process in a very smart way but I feel that there are much more that as a technology I believe a fabric or a blockchain technology can deliver certain critical needs that the industry has. I'm a child accountant so I used to practice before I started my technology life so I used to practice I used to do a lot of consulting for the global multinational companies and not the global trade getting some line of credits established with banks that's what I was doing. So in that part of the work career I realized that that should be a technology that can provide for total automation which is essential and also there should be a possibility of enhancing liquidity of the entire trade finance ecosystem. So also resolving disputes there could be disputes coming all over so there should be an ability to resolve disputes and important point is how do they prevent frauds that are happening because banks are being taken for a ride with some duplicate there are lighting invoices and a lot of stuff and not only that it should be affordable for all we can put a kind of you know the best in class technology but if it is not affordable to one segment for example if there is a company exporting in Bangladesh or you know what other world if they cannot use this system probably this system may not be it will not take off because there is one particular who is not part of the ecosystem then the trade finance platform may not take off or you know the adoption will be challenged so even these needs you know we thought how do we you know bring in certain technologies as a peripheral to this trade finance platform and plug it with trade finance platform so that all these needs can be addressed in a meaningful way so that's what we have been doing and I thought in today's presentation I want to present that as well so the first part of our offering I would say is a a crypt core a crypt core is a kind of you know layer 2 hyperlinks solution because layer 2 typically in a crypto world means you know many things but here in hyperlinks solution how do we make it make any solution affordable for all the constituents the return on investment or the benefit that all the constituents they are going to get from this hyperlinks of fabric platform or solution should be adequate enough irrespective of the size irrespective of the kind or irrespective of the mind so that is the objective with which we started crypt core because we believe that having a right kind of a layer 2 platform can help to optimize the investment in the technology and spread the benefit across all the participants who can get those benefits at a affordable price that is the basis that is a very core purpose with which we have developed our crypt core it's a typical technology stack if you see this is how it looks end of the day cloud is there with the nuts and bolts and boxes and the whole lot of infrastructure that is held in the cloud and on top of that is Hyperledger which is a very logical layer which is completely for anything that we can think of enterprise grade blockchain it's inside Hyperledger on top of that is our crypt core which is the layer 2 I was referring to so it has got its own interactive modules for developing deploying managing in a way you can think of any use case so if you are thinking about a trade finance use case we can please use yourself so now if you are thinking about a trade finance use case probably we can just focus on trade finance use case bring all smart problem solving techniques that we wanted to bring in and then leave all other challenges relating to Hyperledger and cloud related matters infrastructure related matters that crypt core can take care of that's how we have kind of created a crypt core in this era of using the use case solution blockchain or Hyperledger Fabric use case solution now we as we know that technology is very very complex now the complex technology has to be addressed in a very different way what we have done is we have created a certain modularized approach I will start from 1 o'clock deployer for example deploying Hyperledger Fabric you know at a deployment stage we should be very very clear about what kind of network we are thinking about and what kind of optimal infrastructure is required how we can scale and how we can avoid any challenges during the production and then a deployer we have to deploy Hyperledger Fabric you know just Hyperledger Fabric deployment anybody can do at a POC level but if you have to think about a critical solution like trade finance if you are talking about that kind of creating a network it has to be well thought through so in our deployer module we have got all these important critical aspects taken care and then we deploy the deployer module takes care of not only deploying the Hyperledger Fabric it also takes care of certain infrastructure related matters deployed alongside for example if you are talking about Kubernetes services based clusters how it can be deployed depending on you know your network that you want to have whether you want to have a you know a simple Hyperledger systems depending on that you can deploy and the important aspect next one is the wrapper because now you have deployed now you are going to have a use case we know that how that use case is going to interact with Hyperledger Fabric are we going to build this time and negate for every application that we are developing probably that should not be the case there should be certain time-tested standard approach so that's a wrapper that we have created it facilitates in a seamless way interaction between a client and a network because all of us we know we have to not change code and you have got certain policies and all those things should be taken care so we clearly understood all those challenges in our five years experience and this wrapper takes care of it next to the studio is a you know one of the I like that studio module the studio model is a local almost 95 or 97 percent of you are coding your purchase remove if you know what you want for example to create a business rule that's a scenario and points okay I know you know from exporter to importer in between there are parties we break it by events and we bring certain data points between the events and then we also associate that with the users for their entire format and we create a business rule layer on top of that so once this is done now we have a master smart contract we have a master smart contract we take all these you know parameter values and then we deploy that in our master smart contract studio once you do it then your APS are ready then you can think about how you want to create an interface to UI or the line of business solutions then the that's how we have modularized or rather created that studio as a module then comes your fabric admin they've got so many administration related aspects to be taken care when it comes to the question of fabric whether it is a new organization coming on board or a channel or sometimes in all systems going down there are so many things all of them are you know we have created a nice UI based approach with full controls then the fabric admin module takes care of the continuous availability of the network that we are creating and data lake is again we wanted to make sure that the query is not happening directly to the ledger but at the same time business might watch that information both for you know pubs app or reporting or a querying all the APIs whatever way we created that data lake takes care of all the the business related information sharing matters and finally we have a verification as a service layer because whatever we do I could have the fabric is considered as a permission ledger of course it is a permission ledger it's considered as a limited network so sometimes we may have to expose some of our information that can be publicly verified so we created another module called verification as a service here we used a third generation product called edera so HLF information, hyper ledger fabric related information whatever we wanted to harden it further we have created this was to take it to edera and then if you want to bring it back to your use any workflows then the data can come through edera's mirror net now the data is back available to you and you can give it to the party for example somebody is giving an invoice I may give it to my immediate customer if the customer wants to give it to the bank and the bank need not come to my system to verify whether the invoice is valid or not they can go to edera in a public network they will be able to verify that's just a small example now with this modular so far whatever networks that we have created our customers they believe that this is what the people did to that number one the resource dependency in one of our customers scenario they were not even able to move from a POC to production because they were very very serious resource constrained with this kind of a module probably they were able to somebody is asking questions so then operational cost we are reducing the operational cost in multiple ways because it's well structured layer two so with that kind of a standard structured system your operational cost is absolutely reduced for example one of our clients used to say that including our CAPEX you were saying that we were at one third cost of three times faster maybe because of the way that we have structured the code we were able to help our clients with reducing the operational cost the purpose of reducing the operational cost is to make the hyper legit fabric solution affordable for all the participants and shortening the time to market because typically we take about three weeks for POC and probably maximum about 12 to 15 weeks for production because we can go effectively it's a low code and all other components are readily available and your report builder is you know like DERA leak is there for you to query the time consuming activities were reduced so that the time to market is shortened the time to market when you shorten your CAPEX comes down then your CAPEX comes down then we are talking about the improving the economic viability this is you know of course improving the ability achieved through connected verification as a service so now stepping you know little away from of course we have done some very interesting networks we have created programs for our mining and mineral industry to plants this is again a trade finance related use case which is creating high liquidity for that industry because we are talking about I'm going to show a quick demo of this platform you know towards the end the objective is today an exporter bank sitting in certain location like Bangladesh they do not have access to a buyer who may be sitting in the US or in Europe or in Dubai wherever they are because the market is so vast and it is close to about 4 to 5 trillion market size and it is illiquid assets are like you know 20 days window so for somebody to figure out where this asset is or somebody to figure out where the buyers are it's going to be tough so that's where we created a marketplace and this marketplace consists of 70 plus banks today now they know where exactly the assets are and because it is connected in the blockchain there is an immutability there are a whole lot of trust that everything comes in so that marketplace is you know more powered so the typology of fabric and blockchain techniques so now the banks are comfortable in dealing with such illiquid assets we have created an entry European trade network for the Watt and as well as other exporter related or a global cross-border related exchange of data and micro lending platform we have created for an Indian scenario in the coffee supply chain we did between Africa and Europe the entire farmers in Africa they are connected in the network until it is going to the consumer who is drinking coffee and recently we have just deployed an aerospace industry network for a US client and another logistic industry network for another less client these are all the network already running so if you see such powerful network if you have to run then you need to have a very strong platform and the platform should support not just a development in the production not only just the infrastructure it has to take care of the fabric related and the use case related aspects as well and it should provide for scaling so that's exactly what we were able to achieve through crypto next part is after the the crypto we are also into the digital bill of life I personally I was designated blockchain champion in the UNC fact which we built a work a long two and a half years you know continuous workshops to derive a white paper that became a base for ICCs to take and then run create a standard for electronic learning so all of us we know a trade finance any platform for that reason without any digital bill of learning as an asset that is a definitely it is not a total automation we are talking about a breakage and still the fraud can happen so that issue can be solved only through EBL and we have done EBL in a very smart way we have tokenized bill of learning because the underlying asset or a consignment that is represented by the bill of learning is very very you know it has to be secured and it has to be the ownership has to be tightly monitored so given that we have we have developed a tokenized bill of learning concept and that EBL for example we have been in our system it is a non-fungible token because we wanted to make sure that every consignment that EBL represent is in the form of non-fungible token so that the ownership at any point in time can be you know clearly transparently available to anyone who wants to validate and there cannot be another you know similar consignment possible because a very consignment is in it so that way we have created non-fungible token based EBL system and it is completely complying with the global trade standards like ICC, DCSA you know you name it and we also created a verifiable public network using Adara network because at some point in time that verification is very very essential if for example bringing all the participants into the ecosystem may not be possible for example if a shipper you know a logistic company they can generate EBL and then it is going to the shipper assuming the bank is also part of this ecosystem an exporter bank and after that the importer bank they do not want to be part of the system they should be able to download and then take it to the next level while they do this until that point in time it is verified in the public network so some kind of because until it scales up you need those kind of flexibility in the public network as one of the features and completely API approach because all these constituents are very very seriously they have invested a lot of investment in their technology assets we do not want to question their technology assets or change their technology assets the way they are working we create a native approach model so the distance sits on top of the existing technology ecosystem and it can interact with line of business solution and the information flows between multiple blockchain systems is also possible because these tokens are very unique and we can create a token as an asset and then we can continue in any trade finance platform that we are party to so that is the EBL and I am not going to go deep into this it is just a matter of all the participants there is a flow of the trade this is how it is going to be these tokens they are participating and the movement of the EBL is taken care by through the NFT tokens that they are moving from one party to the other party and we use the hyper ledger fabric and edera as two important distributed ledger systems in this ecosystem so next I was talking about this verification as a service now the challenge is as I was mentioning it is a permission ledger and it is limited access so it is a kind of a close loop and the perception is how far I can rely on that information or how far I can access that information so the only way that we can do is take it to some kind of a public network information whichever information that we wanted to take it to the public network and allow that to happen and from the public network again we can bring back information into any platform for example the trade finance platform for our internal workflows so this way we are enhancing the imutability value and adding the increase in the trust portion that is how the verification as a service layer helps so this is how we are connected again and we are proud completely auditable and real-time it becomes a strong evidence because now we can reduce the disputes using this kind of techniques the Hyperledger Fabric program is connected to our Cripsy Wasp where we have got our own workflows and our own way of taking the hash from Hyperledger Fabric and then take it to Hydera and then make sure that the metadata related and then again bring back the information if it has to come back to the Hyperledger Fabric program or anybody who wants to verify they can verify in Hydera network itself this is how we have architected that verification as a service layer this one is a very important I would consider this is a very important technique that might be required in the long term in a low-tech economy and number two with so much of high-value items flowing from one party to other party and high seas transactions happening so many things happening in this global trade now we can eliminate fraud by certain ways by making sure that the electronic bill of lighting tokenization all those stuff but still if we can create a platform where the interaction is not just happening through like a data entry interactions can be captured at the time of the discussion a transaction itself for example if a bank and an exporter if they are talking if that can be through a video transaction platform by applying certain very strong techniques for assuring that the party whoever is in the video is the person who is supposed to be and the video is real there are certain data that we are able to capture from the video and then we can put that behind the screen there is a trade finance standard operating procedure then when we stitch these things together probably we can create a fantastic API that takes all the information that captures in the video transaction and then that can be plugged into trade finance platform now there is a zero fraud that can happen and the transparency is extremely high and it is completely auditable so now this is something of course the V-Board is real there are two banks already they are using for different use cases but the V-Board is more a transaction platform so as I was mentioning all these features are included in V-Board and most importantly this is what I think there were three layers one is one is on the authentication side you can verify the identity, facial recognition to make sure that the person who is in the video is the person who I am talking for example if I am talking to somebody in a remote location I should know because take for example a bank how do you know that a person in a bank is the person whom you are interacting with that could be a fraud right so then a location verification we will make sure that I am talking to someone if that someone is in a bank the bank's location is also captured and lively in this tech we want to make sure that the video is not just a kind of behind somebody is running a video but it's a real video then comes your question of e-signing smart contract who is your capture automation it's all at a transaction level and finally at a compliance level we want to make sure that the standard operating procedures are driving for an audit and verifiable transaction and stored in a mutable way and IPFS you use for your video file sharing and then finally distributed ledger it could be our trade finance if you are connecting then probably the distributed ledger is a hyper ledger fabric or if you want to have just a hash and bring back that hash to our trade finance hyper ledger fabric trade finance system as well we board is a very powerful framework I would say will be extremely helpful for a high value transaction and also to make sure that there is no dispute and completely auditable and verifiable and your standard operating procedure that once put in place that takes care of the entire flow of information and the decision whatever is happening within the system through smart contracts then as I was mentioning about data set it's a marketplace for banks it's about 70 banks already onboarded this is we developed for our client of internet innovation international DMCC situated in Dubai it's about 3 years ago we started developing we brought it to production within about 6 months time they were onboarding more banks recently I think they have concluded 1 billion worth of transactions in this platform in 2021 so that's the just the beginning of the large scale trade that we can see in this platform a quick look at the platform I want to share a video so this entire platform is end to end developed by us on Kripkot they just got a bilateral communication as well because such a large deals cannot happen just one party saying this is my asset and you buy it that has to be some mechanism to interact so we have created the bilateral communication that is also becoming part of the evidence in the system and Ravi thank you for sharing so far you're saying that this platforms in production somewhere or is being tested is this trade assets in production it is in production and a billion dollar worth of transaction already happened in this 2021 and they are expecting a 5-10x volume in the years to come all this information if you see the respective banks are getting the information through API from their existing system it's not like we expect them to do a data entry because it's a duplication there could be errors and all those stuff so we provided a complete first approach to that approach we were able to get all the information into the system and then the trade is happening in a smooth way so that said yeah it's 40 minutes now I'm well within the time I wanted to check if there are any questions or any suggestions I can take somebody is in the chat yeah thank you Mr. Ravi by the way let me chat the list hold on a question by Mr. Gay Cherishet and I can read through this they're trying to build up the lading would only work if the list government regulation that obliges all participants to switch to either lading as the only proof of time of title okay this is the remark I don't know whether Mr. Gay wants to take the word that I agree it has to be the government regulations set in and it's not too far because ICC has given their guidelines the rule book and now United Nations is also unisacral through unisacral they have also announced that the digital export or a global trade documents are allowed once that is done it has to come to the next level to all the governments and when all the governments they are all eager it's not like we have discussed with many government representatives during our workshop they are all eager because they are waiting for such things to happen because if you see all the governments their systems are digital so this paper based bill of lading is a big barrier for them to automate their system there will not be any it's not a government regulation I would say for example if you are talking about RBI they should say we are accepting bill of lading to that extent yes it's a regulation so it's not too far but your question of whether until then both the paper and digital bill of lading will create some kind of a challenge I think in this short term we are coming out with some techniques for example we will put a token and then the token can move from party to party at some point in time say after three stops they want to download they do not want to continue with the token because they don't have a system they can download when they download it clearly going to say that this is the token and this is where you can verify and this is the only original document and until this point in the history you can verify in this link all those information will be available and then that you know paper based on PDF document whatever it is it can move from that point onwards so it can create a problem but with completely paper based model what we have will throw much more problems than what we are trying to but sometimes such change will have to go through some processes that's what we are doing Mr. Ravi there is a second question always by Mr. Sugey second question is trade asset looks like a general market place is it using the hyperledger as it meets that why do you need to use DLT technologies anyway when it happens inside the platform well trade asset it is a network there are multiple nodes and multiple participants are owning that nodes and the data is available you know through PDC and other concepts it's all available in those nodes and it is up to the banks to decide whether they want to participate in the ecosystem by being one of the node we have also created another model where it's a shared node we have created a proxy node we don't want to be part of the network as a participant in the network at an infrastructure level at a node level you can continue to do the transaction because from 2016 until now we have seen the hyperledger fabric adoption in stages early stages in 2016-2017 when we deployed it was 100% single authority solution for an enterprise but that evolved over a period of time we were able to scale those platforms to a different level scaling should happen will happen here we have provided for all those scale assuming that we are talking about a 5 trillion economy when we cross for example 100 million then we are going to see a lot of banks having interest to participate in this network because the assets are part of this and the audit internal audit system would require some participation in the ecosystem and hyperledger fabric is also technology is also getting adopted and getting mainstream so all these things will converge at that point in time this will be a powerful DLT network it is just a matter of time next Mr Ravi this is another question the idea of tokenizing bill of leading is good how would you commercialize it that holds a very interesting question I think at least what the BL is doing is just replacing the paper based BL right so now there is a definite cost comparison between the paper based BL and digital BL as a company is objective is to run network and platforms that can reasonably give a very good benefit for all the participants at a transaction level approximately 50 dollars and above and if they are benefiting 50 dollars and above any participant in the ecosystem not necessarily a BL any network that we are running then we would like to share the benefits along with our participants model is to make sure at a BL level there is a benefit and there is a cost and there is a subscription as well so we will run the network large companies would like to be part of the network be part of the node network so they will have their own nodes and they will run their own infrastructure and there are some small companies who would still want to be part of the system maybe a small fight forward he doesn't want to have infrastructure cost and other stuff he may not be able to manage it as well for them we will provide a chat mode where they can come and participate and then get the BL part of the BL journey and for them we will charge them different pricing it will be affordable but at the same time depending on how they are participating in the network hope I address your question so Mr Ravi just one question you may mention coffee trading and stuff like this how do you see in terms of your solution within the new trend called ESG environments social impact and governance how do you see that steps from quick see into this specific space yeah so ultimately blockchain technology is a foundational technology it has to do much much foundational changes in the ecosystem so we are not looking at blockchain just replacing existing business process your BRP systems can do or any software can do definitely then you are running a Mercedes Benz at a 5 kilometer or a 5 mile speed so now we are talking about how this blockchain can ultimately when it goes to the mainstream and when more participants coming into the system ultimately what are all the key benefits that we can expect so one of the key benefits is definitely the carbon footprint related the sustainability related for example we did one project for a BR manufacturer and he came openly in the public network in the website itself it is mentioned where for every bottle of BR they wanted to show to the consumer about the social responsibility they want to show what is the water consumed for the particular bottle of water it is not like a static it is dynamic and what is the sustainability factor for that particular bottle of water because so if that beer for example if there is a transportation or a truck company if they are moving that beer from a point to point for example they may be using a low carbon consuming or carbon emitting ecosystem but the same one probably if you are thinking about in India or Bangladesh or other countries probably we are using some diesel based truck system where the carbon emission will be high so depending on all these information we have created an algorithm and we were able to produce that information in a distributed lecture that is available for the consumer who can trust and believe that this is something which I can have because it is not going to create any massive issue for the ecosystem or environment so this is one example now imagine we are already talking about the coffee grower in Ethiopia we are already talking about green farming now when it comes to green farming how are they going to be compensated because that is very important because in Africa if somebody is putting some efforts to make sure that there is a distributed issue that I am going to take care of to my extent then somebody should be giving him some incentive that incentive can happen only in a distributed network or a blockchain technology for example if somebody says that for I have said 10 kilogram of carbon emission in my farming of one acre of coffee plantation immediately he will get a carbon offset token the carbon offset token is a valuable token that can be traded in a carbon exchange now this is how I think the entire BLT and blockchain technology we need to reach that stage and if we have to reach that stage we need to start somewhere in a marketplace or a supply chain or a trace and track or a provenance these are all the use cases that we are doing but we are already seeing it's progressing towards those kind of foundational value that a blockchain can bring to the table Thank you so much Mr. Ravi and another adding to that point in that same platform we have created the provenance is not just that this coffee is grown in this particular land it's also about the certificate that the African or Ethiopian government has given you have not used any chemical fertilizer all those informations are also available as part of your provenance now you are convinced that when I have a coffee I am convinced that this is coming through this sustainability factors or anything that is coming to me as an individual and also as a society Perfect, thank you so much this is pretty interesting I'll leave it on to the attendants once again and Julie maybe to ask them questions Mr. Ravi, Julie it was a great presentation and you covered so many different mine hub, the trade assets all these wonderful programs so I am not sure what you want to ask questions about but maybe I ask a broader question where do you see where do you see the blockchain how do you see it evolving now particularly in trade finance the missing elements were as I was mentioning the digital document in the system because the acceptance of those documents now we have got blessings from the UN and the large institutions unfold and that journey is going to take this trade finance to a probably 50-60x levels the supply chain platform for example mine hub what we have developed now already they have started interfacing with another trade finance platform so those things are happening now that kind of network effect the technology network effect will kind of take this trade finance platforms to a different level I would say in the next 12-24 months you will see the complete transformation of trade finance industry using blockchain technology and hyperlegia is leading that part of the technology world you know that which is great so how do you see interoperability then right so you talk about multiple chains do you see interoperability starting to happen the asset definition layer is helping because if you are talking about the important aspect is the asset because there is a consignment moving from party to party that is represented by a bill of learning if that asset if you can create that as an interoperable one for example NFTs are interoperable now if you see across all platform we are able to you know consume an NFT from the third because it's just the technology helps you to make sure that it is verifiable and also you can use in your platform so that is a very co-interoperable aspect other than that transaction level interoperability it is definitely a challenge but I don't know I don't think it is required because if I'm party to the asset interoperability is required outside of that I may have a different process I may have a different ledger I want to use that asset I can use it all depends on users convenience and there are what kind of a platform they are having that's all and going towards a very tightly interoperable or integrated model my understanding it's going to be tough we can think about having some intermediary techniques and technologies it's not going to be 100% there is a remark from one of my contacts he is asking whether coffee solution is adaptable to cocoa and casserole industry which is a big deal in Africa especially western Africa but I guess the answer is too positive isn't it I think the cocoa is already we have deployed though I call it as a coffee chain it's done for the other bar that is brand they use the same they use for a different kind of a business purpose they use one showing the provenance and also they created a loyalty program on top of the network that we have created because every chocolate bar you are getting there is a QR code inside the wrapper you can scan you can connect to the system imagine how else are you going to connect in a consumer world connecting a consumer to your system is very very very tough that's why Nestle's and others you can't give loyalty it's through retail chain only you can get but here when I click the QR code I can select to either donate some my reward to the farmer who actually cultivated in a cocoa bean for him I can give some planted tree tokens or I can keep that in my system in my wallet use those tokens for buying next time when I buy a chocolate it's a loyalty program that we have done so it is already done Kashi we have not done it's a good idea probably we are waiting for somebody to look at this platform this is pretty interesting I mean value chain and how to transpose this one to the blockchain is a big deal especially in Africa also in Southeast Asia yes so the feeling I got that blockchain can step in as a major after in changing the actual value chain and giving access to finance more general terms to the very quality finance nowadays actually we did for our client in Netherlands this project it's called blockchain foundation so blockchain foundation supported by UN those kind of organizations this organization supported them because they wanted to make sure the value distribution is available for all the participants to see also to make sure for the farmer it's not like somebody taking advantage of the farmer situation so the value distribution is very important because one of the SDG goal is the poverty related to address that UN is promoting this and we have also created the value distribution reporting in our layer so anybody can see and then make sure that the farmer is getting good results nice topic Mr. Ravi by the way thank you so much there's a message from you can congratulate for the I'm just going to run representation Ravi thank you all of us bye bye I appreciate that perfect Julian I think we can close this one by thanking Mr. Ravi it was indeed a very powerful presentation I'm delighted literally to have you here today with us we're going to meet in two weeks time again having another time slot in my early afternoon in central Europe so I would love to thank Mr. Ravi for being with us today and hope to see you soon again soon all right take care everybody take care thanks Mr. Ravi bye