 What's going on guys? I'm here with Nicole today Nicole wave. Hi. What's up? What's going on? So Nicole has been and I'm so happy she reached out to me in the comments on my YouTube channel Saying the experiences she had with her three pregnancies So although Nicole had some problems early on in her life related to diet and various problems Eventually at a later point in her life. She did try Having a pregnancy on both a standard diet a vegan diet and then back to a paleo diet So she has three very interesting and different Experiences that we can kind of relate to the importance of having animal foods in the diet in regards to Ease of birth pregnancy health of the mother's milk and health of the child So I'm going to kind of let Nicole take it away here Starting with I guess, you know, what happened when you're trying those diet pills, right? Thank you, Frank. Thank you for the nice introduction that you did for me. Yes, I started like a dieting yo-yo dieting in my early teens and when I was 16 so throughout my 15 that year 15 to 16 I was taking diet pills and Then I ended up having an appendix my appendix removed. So it was quite an emergency surgery and then I kept still like dieting because Like I couldn't lose weight properly. I would always gain it back Like my my diet was heavy on carbs like I would say in Italy We do eat a lot of grains and stuff So I would have like a bowl of cereals or eventually a croissant before school for breakfast and then pasta Maybe a for dinner like some some cheese or something like that But not that much more bread or legumes things like that because I think in the 90s That the focus of the diet in order to lose weight is that you have to go low fat. So I was really low fat For all these years and I was over exercising over training doing just a lot of cardio Basically and then eating very little fat very high carb and what's happened at 23 After all these years of like your your dieting and low-fat diet I ended up losing my period for quite a while more than a year And so I was hospitalized at 23 for like having a lot of tests done on to me just understand why I was not ovulating so and Eventually they couldn't give me an answer but basically I just kept being on birth control pills For many years because first of all I had bad acne and second It was just the only way to get my period because when you are on birth control you kind of have this a fake cycle let's say and Then after that I started to work on for a cruise line so I went on cruise ships for quite many months at a time and Like the work kept my mind off my dieting and things like that because just I wanted to reach my goals made make a career out of it So the diet and the physique and all my let's say obsession a little bit I put it aside, but Still it was always at the back of my mind and this was for a couple of years and then at 26 I stopped and For work like on the cruise and I got engaged to my husband and we were in London at that time and I just thought I mean we want to start a family so I need to be healthy I need to focus on other things in life. It's time to move on. I felt like I always had this keen mentality Like I always wanted to look like my mom because she's she's a very tall woman and very slim just by nature with no effort So I always had this like I want to be this clean, but I I understand like that That was a bit silly and a bit too much. So I Tried to be healthier But for what was my let's say my my opinion of of eating healthy And so at the time I got pregnant at I was 28 Sorry to interrupt you, but At no real point throughout your life. Did you eat a substantial amount of meat or fish? Are you able to remember maybe was your mother's diet similar to yours? Well, no, it was more balanced because my mom always say moderation is the key for everything So she said she said that my diet was extinct because I would stay away from animal products as much as I could Especially meat. I had this thought that meat was fattening was not good for you. So I would rather go for some low fat cheese Then have a proper meat So maybe meat was something social for me like out of social situation in a restaurant or In a friend's house, then I would eat some meat, but it was not my Not my desire. I would say that meat was fattening and bulky So I would say no, maybe I had like low fat yogurt with a ton of sugar in it I thought that was healthy. So that was my my animal food very very low fat and As little as I could I was focused much more on grains whole grains are so good for you brown rice brown pasta This type of thing Do you know if your mother like really ate a lot of animal foods for like maybe eggs for breakfast a lot of fish for dinner Do you know? No, I don't know that but She ate anything and in in small quantities But she always had butter in the fridge butter I would never touch it But she always had it in the fridge. It was available to me, but I had no this is just way too much fat. I can't Maybe I would have like a more olive oil or not this type of fat healthy fat I thought just butter is evil red meat is evil So yeah, very different. I changed my mind completely Which is great. Yeah, so let's go back to the you were when I interrupted you you were about to talk about the first pregnancy Yeah, then I started to practice a little bit more of a intuitive eating sort of things through this pregnancy So I would say that I still was quite heavy on carbs But I would eat and I would crave some cotta cheese So some dairy I would crave that and I would try like this British dairy which is really good like cheddar And maybe sometimes I would go like to to find the more the more more tasty ones or Like not so commercial to go a little bit more gourmet on these things So I would have some animal food occasionally meat Like if my husband would cook because I didn't even know how to cook meat Like Except from like breast chicken on a grill nothing special. So I started yes to follow a little bit is our advice of moderation is the key But I remember like having almost never like red meat. I would Really not not have that So I would say vegetarian type of pregnancy But you were craving you were really acting on those ricotta cheese and cheese cravings. Yeah, yeah And those are pretty with those very those are very strong and frequent Yeah, exactly. So I would eat basically every day I would have every day like a big big portion of cotta cheese or other type of dairy And then yeah, my let's say my usual diet plus some full fat dairy I think you guys are curious Dairy is actually nutritionally complete. I do have a video called dairy friend or foe But it just pretty much summarizes that it literally has all the fat soluble vitamins in it So dairy in itself can pretty much be a nutritionally complete source for you know pregnant woman craving something But I guess the next thing is to go over is the kind of like the I guess the delivery experience, right? Yeah, exactly the the pregnancy was fine. I was on a healthy weight I didn't gain a lot of weight. I was feeling healthy and fit and the The delivery itself went well. I had a natural delivery in the hospital The labor wasn't too long overall as for a first baby And after so when the baby came it was healthy. It was a healthy weight And so we started this the breastfeeding process right in the hospital and then at home because I really wanted to breastfeed I I thought It's such a like a peculiar thing mother and baby is so special If I want to do that. I didn't buy any formula just in case or things like that I really wanted to to give it a try and and then a little bit I was a little bit overwhelmed because everybody tried to give me advice. You have to drink this you have to do that Don't eat that it's gonna make him gusty or quality. So it was a little bit overwhelming and at the end I decided that my diet would be A big bowl of brown rice with some greens Goodbye And then maybe a little bit of meat because at that point everybody was telling me you have to eat some meat To have a good amount of good milk nutritious milk so I would listen to these people and Start to incorporate some chick and nothing special really I could have done better on animal food And so this was my diet and you stopped like all the cheese I didn't crave it that much and you know that that is this controversial Thought that dairy makes the baby fussy because of the casing in the milk So basically the the cacin protein Goes in the milk and if the baby can be allergic or it can give me give him colleagues So with dairy I was really really cautious because I didn't know if it was true or not Some midwives tell you it's true some some tell you no it's not It's actually very good for you because it will make the milk fatter So the baby would be happier So I didn't know I went for the the safe one which was chicken But the bulk was this was great that this sticky brown rice They told me this is the best for lactating women But I could see that the baby was not very satisfied with my milk It would latch constantly and I know that in the first week the baby latches constantly It's normal just to make your milk come but he was upset. He was a little too much But still I I mean we managed to go through these stages and when the baby was five months I would start him on solid So then my milk was not that much of an issue because it was start eating food But I could see actually that my milk was not that Fatty because I would pump some Put it in the fridge and at that point after a few hours you can see that the milk You have the fatty part at the top and the watery part at the bottom And I could see that my fatty part the layer of fat on top of the milk was really little And I would try to eat more fat to make this layer thicker So I would I would eat nuts and seeds and avocados a little bit and that wouldn't help and When I had my first baby I had A helper a lady was helping me and she was really On into microbiotic So that's why she was suggesting me how to cook this grain how to Prepare them and then eventually feed them to the baby So I put my baby also on this microbiotic type of weaning Let's say I could have done better also But I was always afraid to put the baby on a strict vegan or vegetarian diet Yeah, so just to be clear You were on this like chicken rice and spinach diet for like five months and then about five months into The breastfeeding period when you started weaning the child is when you met this microbiotic woman And that's when you kind of went vegan. So five months into breastfeeding your first child You went vegan Yeah, because I mean her What she was telling me was so compelling like the power of nutrition how you can heal yourself through food She told me that she healed their IBS through the microbiotic diet She was basically vegan. She would eat and I would eat then like big big bulk big bulk of cereals and legumes cooked in a certain way for very long and They basically she ate some fish here and there, but I would say that her diet was pretty much vegan And this what got me into veganism. So if microbiotic is healthy, then vegan must be even healthier So I started my journey into the vegan diet at that point about six seven months after my first child is born And I tried different varieties of it Like being heavy on fruit or heavy on starch because I would follow Dr. Matt Dougal as well like he's on youtube on his channels So heavy on starch heavy on fruit and then more got on a try to be higher in protein So more legumes more soy But I would say overall I felt fine But I had some symptoms looking back then like the bloating And then my cheeks would be really red and around my mouth I would be really red and I didn't know what was wrong like Veganism is supposed to make your skin glow and things like that So I I had some issue but overall I really I was convinced of the diet But what does your mother say when you were feeding him the grains? Exactly. This is my first child that I went home and I had these sachets of amaranth and Corn and this and that and she told me oh your boy's not a chicken. Give him some food Yeah, because and she was right so When I got pregnant with my second And overall the breastfeeding thing went on for three years with my first boy So overall I could say that I kept tough with it because I know it was nutritious for him Was healthy at least on the immunity part of thing like not to get him Let him be sick that often thanks to the The immunity that is in the breast milk So when I got pregnant with my second I was already two years into veganism in different varieties of it and The pregnancy I would say it was 95% Vegan I would say because I had cravings for butter and salmon especially so fat Any more fat and I would act on those cravings. Ooh that faro island scottish salmon, man on the grill Yeah, I went on like on the best quality I could find because I know that salmon can be can be a little bit toxic if you if you don't source it at the best So I went for a high quality salmon and butter carry gold I always had this this butter even for my my husband and and my other child And I saw I went for this food But that was really a minimum amount of the food I was eating overall during the during every single day But I would have this craving and I would I would eat maybe at that point I would eat a big amount of it like a Too big Spoonfuls of butter a big piece of salmon. So there were still some scents in you left like even though you were vegan You you were like my body needs Yeah, you know, I still have some some common sense and I I felt guilty because I mean if it's the baby that is asking me this because throughout these two years prior I was fine. I didn't eat anything any animal food Uh So, yeah, I was I was Feel confident that the baby needs that and I wouldn't feel guilty For like cheating on the vegan diet because you know, it's not my religion. I would do it for health Because I wonder what the vegans would tell you what would they tell you to eat? Eat some coconut and supplement some algae oil like is that what they would have said Exactly. Well, I had a lot of coconut oil and things like that. Yeah, but it's not the same I mean coconut oil is is great. I still have it in my kitchen But I do have butter and I eat it regularly and because I want it now I I feel I'm more in tune with my body because I eat what I want It's not that I have to do a lot of preparation before like Prepping potatoes and this and that is just it's so much easier and it feels more natural that I just want a piece of meat With some butter just have it it's quick It's good for me and I feel it So Back to the pregnancy. It was during delivery Things were starting to get a little bit more difficult Definitely more difficult that with my previous one, which is strange because usually the body knows what it's doing at its faster and easier But the baby was suffering his heartbeat was going low For every contraction and it wouldn't go back up. So they're starting to be worried and eventually the Team came in and they were talking me through a c-section So we were very close to that but at that point I was almost in the process of giving birth So they gave me a chance. Let's say and then the baby came out Fine in a in a good span of time. They were happy with that. So I avoided the c-section, but it was very close so the baby the baby's born at this point and He is not crying, but you know that at this five 10 seconds that seems so long because you just want to hear This this this voice, you know this shout so the baby would hesitate to cry and then I the baby would cry and They would give him to me And I could see that he was cold and he was blueish He didn't look really all right, but he was apparently And but they took Some a blood sample from him to see if something was wrong And that first night actually the baby never slept which usually after birthday sleep They are fine the first night the first 24 hours. They are quite sleepy But the baby wouldn't sleep I would hold him all night and I could see that he was thirsty like coming around this mouth I would give him the breast obviously, but at first you don't have You just have colostrum, which is basically a few drops of a very thick consistency and it was thirsty So at the in the morning I called the midwife immediately I was quiet during the night, but then I called her and I said please check on my baby because he's not right He I think he's really thirsty so have a look and Really in that in that minutes maybe after 10 minutes the pediatrician came in in my room With the results of the blood test and the baby basically had very high hematocritus It was really dehydrated and the the condition is called polycytemia Basically, basically the red blood cell count. It's too high way to very thick blood Very thick So they took him away and he went to npicu to intensive care He was there for five days on a drip until he recovered until his blood count Came back normal But then I would we would go to the hospital every week or every two weeks for checking on him for like two months And in that time I was Presceding him, but it wasn't very successful. I mean with the first I struggled a little bit the first couple of months, but then it went better And in this case it was the other way the more we were into it the more it didn't work and by didn't work. I mean that Also through pumping I could see that my supply was low And the the fat was low on the milk And overall it was like making him cranky making him fussy. He was gassy because I would eat Way too much veggies and even though I was trying to be healthy You know, I would eat chia seeds flax seeds for these omega-3s. I would eat old Nuts and seed and seeds and this and that and I thought it was great my diet and it took me so much effort to prepare my meals while caring for two children And my mother-in-law was here in Malta with me at that time and she told me doesn't he called sorry To telling you that but this diet is not good for him. He's affecting him. He's gassy You should eat some meat. You should eat some fish just normal things And I remember craving bone broth so bad even though I almost didn't know the taste of it But I had this craving But I wouldn't go for it. I would go for vegetable stock instead, which is not Quite much the same and I would just give up breastfeeding basically and I went for HA formula and this was a Dr. McDougall suggestion because he says that in one of the lecture not to put the baby on soy formula But to put him on HA formula That's what happened The baby was fine overall, but I really missed that I didn't breastfeed It's like maternal bond That I have with my other two children. I don't have it with him. So that was really disappointing But still I I would keep going with veganism at this point And eight months into that Well, I was having postpartum depression and I was I was treated for it. I went on antidepressant About four months after the baby was born. I started SSRI or selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors this type of Of antidepressant because I was feeling. Yeah, really. I didn't have energy Especially mental energy mental four fruits. It was really hard to take care of the kids and Yeah, I struggled and eight months After my second baby is born. I got pregnant with my third And this was really overwhelming It was not planned and it was really overwhelming because I just had, you know, these moments. I realized I have to do something I have to change or it's gonna be really tough because I I can barely keep up with Can you imagine to keep up with three? So I thought like I need to change up things And my husband would also support me on that And about I would say I was about four months pregnant. I switched I made that switch almost overnight because I I understood what what I needed and what I wanted And even before veganism or before microbiotic before everything I heard about dr. Weston a price That he was a dentist. He traveled the world. He would look at this traditional population eating their traditional food and how they were healthy thriving So I thought, you know, maybe this guy was into something so I would just look back try to gather some some information also agianus wonder planet I I watched some of his videos and read something On this primal diet and I just changed completely and I am so much happier and the pregnancy was great I gained my energy back So I was able to take care to be pregnant and at the same time take care of a toddler and almost five years old and I would say that my symptoms went pretty quickly. I was start to feel better Mentally like more calm Relaxed, you know, just just feeling normal again. It's like I was always angry like anger was a big one for me I would really Freak out real quick and this is of course not good when you have children. You need to keep yourself together at all times That was hard so the mental clarity and the calmness is started to came back real quick And I would eat butter. I would I would eat red meat for the first time It was also, you know, I almost a new experience going to the butcher to the butcher and ask for this type of meat It was also new for me, but I just you know, I just did it. I said this is good for me So I tried liver and butter and slowly I would incorporate more and more eggs. I would almost never eat eggs So try to find the best organic eggs I could get and eat them I felt so nourished And I would say I would cut back on greens and vegetables and fruits Almost drastically and feeling way better. My skin went like The redness it calmed down so quickly and I thought it was the tomatoes, you know, these like They are nightshades. They're really harsh even on the digestive system and I would eat a lot of them They are really cheap in here in Malta so my skin went like The texture of it the thickness which I could see immediately my skin was so much better And my hair starting growing healthier my teeth. I would struggle with my teeth. They were pretty yellowish Yellowish looking I would google a yellow teeth vegan Many times because that was a big one like my smile Oh people used to tell me and yeah, but my smile and at that time I didn't have my teeth went up good So my feet went back like on this bright white almost like Real quick and I would feed better mentally at the point that from starting with my gp and with the midwives I would slowly going off my neck So I stopped having the the need for antidepressants at that point. I felt confident enough that I was really feeling better And the delivery went really well. It was real quick I checked in in the hospital at 8 30 p.m And the baby was in my arms at 9 45. So real quick delivery really healthy baby Healthy looking nice collar nice and chubby healthy weight And you know, I would just Cruddle him and that it would latch and everything went so smoothly Really, I was so glad for the first time. I really enjoyed because Never had colleague is the first one out of three. I have to say never suffered of colleague And it would just be content overall And happy and I did the same experiment. So I pumped my milk to see how much I have how thick How fat it is and that now there is a nice thick layer of fat I would say 25 ml out of 60 So I'm really happy with that so I can see that the milk is nutritious Even though I'm eating a really I will say not that large amount of food. I'm eating a smaller portion of food But in this food that is all I need more nutrients Exactly. It's more nutrient dense. That's the thing And even now that I am starting to give him some solids I am following the western a price principle for winning children So he is having even apart from the make very different food from his brother. So And he's overall the more most content, baby. I've ever seen it's really great So I will keep breastfeeding as long as I can As long as I feel comfortable and things like that and yeah, this is my experience Do you want to go briefly over the western price like what you actually feed your baby? Do you want to talk about that for a little bit for any curious mothers? He says Well, the principles are that you have to give him animal food as a first food Not starch as opposed to the standard like feeding schedule because they don't have amylase So they just did so it would upset them and it would cost to pay them So not even a sweet potato is great Until the baby is about eight nine months Um, so this is the principle while on the opposite side animal food is really easy to digest Especially, you know, it is properly cooked and blended. It's really easy on the baby's stomach. So you A meat and some fat a little bit of they say ha Hot liver oil or a little bit of liver or butter. These are the foods to start the baby on not Uh powder rice. I don't know. It's called baby cereals. Not this type of they talk about like do they talk about egg yolks and fish eggs too? Exactly. Yes egg yolks when the baby which is about One this because of allergy problem. So if the baby has a reaction to the egg and is just Five six months old then it's better not to risk it and introduce it later But definitely after the year they need to have Uh slightly cooked egg yolks is highly recommended and fish So, I mean what that pretty much achieves is you know, you're making sure the baby has plenty of vitamin a for development You're making sure the baby has the omega 3 fatty s is the dha in higher amounts And by consuming those foods in your diet yourself, you're ensuring that the breast milk has those nutrients too It's both for me and for him. So he's having this healthy food From two sauces, which is great. I'm really happy Did you want to touch on uh in umbria? They have some very traditional dishes, don't they? Yes, they are very very very good. We have very very good pork Because still a few families do that in their in their home, you know They they like they grow the the pork for one year and then they butcher him They butcher it at home and they would eat some parts really on the spot They would cut it open and some parts of the intestine They have to be even like just a few minutes after After is that and uh, you will eat them on the spot and then they would start, you know To process everything and we eat everything of the animal. There is almost no waste From life from our whole the whole animal So we have pork we have Sheeps so we have like ship milk And cheese that you can get Very high fat very high yeah Exactly and like healthy animals Healthy animals these animals are grazing They are like out Like they're out in the sun. They're grazing. So the the products that you're getting from them. The meat is really healthy. It's really good So then you had the baby goats too and the wild boar Exactly wild boar. Yes, because they are they are like pests, you know, they are everywhere So they actually encourage people to hunt them down because otherwise they create problems So white boy is a big one, but not everybody is able to process it in the in the proper way Even the Like even the grains you're eating and a lot of the produce you're eating Like there's a big belief in Italian wheat as opposed to other wheat Yeah, definitely when I would go grocery shopping, I would always go for Italian pasta I mean, and I mean Italian wheat grown in Italy even because of the difference A pesticide that they use in Italy. There are a little bit more strict. There is no glyphosate Then I don't know if now muntanto came to europe through the buyer So I don't know now how how they're gonna get away with with everything but definitely we we think that they Wheat grown on Italian soil is the best That was what I would go for but definitely in larger amounts Too much too much of it That's what us italians are shorter than everyone else all that week exactly because we eat a lot of grains and we do It's true So nicole, is there any Like messages or anything else you wanted to touch on? I mean, I think we really covered this and your whole story really well and got a lot of the points across from You know the evident problems you had when you were younger on a plant-based diet lacking in kind of animal foods How that translated throughout all three of your pregnancies and just some really interesting things that were thrown in there from You know the fattiness of the milk to the ease of the birthing process to even the traditional foods Yeah, well You know on youtube these vegan mothers are quite popular It's unfortunate Unfortunately what I eat in a day and these and that but now looking back and with the perspective that I have on things now I can see that these diets are extremely poor and extremely dangerous both for them and for the child and I know that some Vegans mother they ended up having a quite cranky child. I don't want to make names or things like that but the The child is fussy is making Is crying too much is Is never settled and I think it's lack of nutrition Like in the video that you you put up some days Yeah, because the baby is hungry because it doesn't get the fat soluble vitamins But I believe that these women get cravings because it's part of the pregnancy You do get cravings. So I just hope that they Even if they want to do it behind closed doors that they would would act on those cravings The unfortunate thing is they might justify those cravings as just part of pregnancy and say, oh, I don't need to eat those foods and I think overall if you know, we're going to do anything I mean just to keep it really positive and hopefully open these women up to the importance of these vitamins I mean And I just said that, you know, if you don't feel like eating meat Which might be a shock if you're an ethical vegan or things like that just to reach out, you know for egg yolks Some collagen powder protein powder, you know, these type of things butter Because you do need I mean a pregnant woman do need Does need this type of food You're not and especially I would say a breastfeeding Mother because eventually when the baby's in the womb, it would get it would deplete the mother The mother's body and get what he needs Eventually, but then when he's out, he needs this type of nutrition And you know in italy there were cases where babies like some children died from the vegan diet Oh, no, we could yeah, I mean you guys can google that stuff and it's it's really unfortunate and You know, we we literally have, you know, we have babies that are even dying in some cases you guys can google There's many many examples on youtube of Vegan moms having problems during pregnancy and then even after the pregnancy they'll start feeding the kid Soy when it's only a few months old and at what point do we ask? You know, how blind do you have to be? Really, you know, it's unfortunate and I mean if babies dying and them being unhealthy and developmentally delayed And these vegan women noticing all these problems they're having if that's not enough Then you know, what is you know at what point is it gonna? At what point is it going to be so extreme that? You know, what are you going to have to like I don't want to mention thing I'm sure there are many many women who have been in the unfortunate position of having miscarriages, but I think you know, that's that's a bit of an understatement with if we look at and there's some data and statistics that I've posted on twitter I think in the past month or so Showing how miscarriage rates have gone up infant mortality has gone up You know autism is rates are going up child cancer hood rates are increasing and I ask myself every day You know at what point are people going to start saying, you know, this shouldn't this be getting better shouldn't you know What's what's going on? And I mean, you know removing animal foods and reduction of animal foods kind of correlates directly with a lot of these negative things that are happening I agree with them. I don't know. I couldn't imagine anything worse that puts your child's life at risk For what I think it's part of it is just people are so ingrained They're ingrained in convention. They're ingrained in what we've been told our whole lives And it's almost impossible to get out of that You know, it's this is not like a discussion about necessarily religion specifically. This is not a discussion about diet It's so hard to get away from your culture and what you've been taught your whole life That I think uh, you know over 99 of people will never probably even more than that We'll never ever kind of break that tradition, especially in regards to their diet Um, Nicole, did you have anything else you wanted to touch on? Well, that's all the symptoms that I had on a vegan diet. They are gone. So The mental health Was a big one for me plus the bloating the fatigue The skin problems just the skin Not looking right My hair looking thin my teeth looking yellowish It's gone. So I like feeling much better Feeling really much better my more focused mental clarity All these things I can definitely noticing and even my husband told me that he likes me much better now And he can see a big improvement How much how much can it hurt just have have fish a few times and see if what happens Like really like any vegan out there, you know, if you eat fish if you eat meat If you do something for a few days just for a certain nutrients see how it goes And you notice a drastic change. I mean Pretty hard to deny something like that. But what are you gonna do? You can't really convince people. Um, I guess, uh, I guess that's really gonna we're gonna wrap this up I did want to thank So many of you guys for watching and I do want to say it again to keep everything on a positive note But uh, you want to say goodbye to everyone? Yeah, bye guys Take care