 ACF, or Hanezi, and the People's Democratic Party criticise President Mohammad Bahari as the Presidency alleges a coup plot, and pay the 100 million Naira or risk the lives of Windfield University students. What should the federal government do? Or this is plus politics, and I am Mary Ann O'Connor. The Presidency has alleged that some individuals in partnership with some religious leaders and foreign elements are trying to destabilise the sovereignty of the country. It warned that it would deal with any group that does anything to undermine the democratically elected government of the country. The People's Democratic Party PDP in response described the allegation as a resort to blackmail in the face of leadership failure. And while expressing its opinion, the Pan-Niger-Delta Forum, PANDEF, said the Presidency is chasing shadows rather than looking for solutions to a myriad of problems facing the country. Well joining us to discuss this is Alesta Wilcox, he's a political analyst. Chris Itamonola is a legal practitioner. And Dimeji Fabi is a political analyst and a member of the People's Democratic Party. Thank you very much gentlemen for being part of the conversation. Thank you for having me. Thank you very much for listening to the audience. All right, great. Thank you very much. I'm up in here. All right, great. I'm going to start with Misty Itamonola. You are a legal practitioner, so I'm going to pose this question to you. What does the Presidency mean by a coup plot when they say a coup plot? I mean we as Nigerians have heard about coup plots under the military administrations and this was a thing which even the President had been part of while he was in uniform. When they say there's a plot to overthrow the government, what do you think they mean? And I mean we know that this is an allegation of sorts. Is the Presidency saying that these people that they've not necessarily mentioned their names but pointed fingers to are capable of overthrowing a democratically elected government in a democracy? Well, when you say a coup plot, it automatically potends the illegal takeover of a constitutionally elected democratic administration that is in place and brought up by the Constitution. And for a coup plot to take place and to successfully have legitimacy, the implication is that Section 1 of our constitution which establishes the supremacy of the constitution will automatically be suspended. Once there is an attempt to plot a coup, what an illegal government or abdication of the coup plotters will have to do will be automatically to suspend the constitution and by so doing come up with the claims that will legitimize whatever acts they are doing. Simply put, that is what it means to plan a coup. I'm just curious because in the 21 years of our very nascent democracy, have you really heard any presidents, sitting presidents, make these sorts of allegations of a coup or a planned takeover and what do you think would have necessitated this allegation made by the presidency? Because this is not the first we're hearing of, a few days ago the DSS also warned that there were people who were trying to, in fact they warned that people should stop speaking negatively about the government of the day and that there were sudden plans on being on earth. And now the presidency is coming out to say, well, we know we have a list of these people. What do you think must have necessitated that? One of the people with the administration that they legitimately put in place, a government under the democratic setting is a government for the people, by the people and for the people and the essence of it is why they have put the APC-led administration is first and foremost to secure their lives and properties. In the north you are having agitation, in the west, in the south, in the east, everywhere you are having agitation and what the presidency, what the president ought to do is to rise up to the occasion. I mean, there is so much dissatisfaction all over the nation and one that comes, it simply means it's your shadows. Even if the people are dissatisfied with the expression, one thing you can't take away in an administrative setting, in a democratic setting, is the will of the people to make their comments. And how many people are going to start arresting, how many people are going to guard? Why all you need to do is to rise to the occasion, look at the north, look at the south, look at... There are so much inequality, for example, in the area of appointments, in the area of job creation, in the area of insecurity, I mean, they are talking about, look at what they just released about 39 students and we do not know whether Ransom was fed or not. Whether Ransom was fed or not, the most important thing is, I mean, every day you are hearing about kids, you are hearing about kidnapping, and that is not what Nigerians voted against. I'm not an administration officer. But Missy Terminal, this is not the first time in the country that we have had disaffection. In fact, Nigerians have been long before now, divided along ethnic, religious and political lines. Yes, you might argue that we've not had it as bad as this, but could this be a premise for which a government would be screaming blue murder that they want to be overthrown by not just political leaders, they're talking about past political leaders and they're talking about religious leaders. And this means you're talking about the Muslim leaders, you're talking about the Christian leaders. I mean, this is a very hefty allegation. With all due respect, it is imperative for us to go beyond the allegation of coup plotting. I mean, if the presidency is certain about that, that's why he is the president. That's why it's the presidency. For goodness sake, you can't talk without verifiable facts. If you are certain that there is an attempt to overthrow your government, first and foremost, who are these people? Go for them and take them in accordance to law. Number two, beyond going for them, the question to ask your service, you are put in administration for a given reason. Are you fulfilling that? The reason why the APC administration took over from the PDP leadership administration is an inverted comma, the assertion that the PDP is not doing well. And of course, there are various promises that the APC-led administration of our president inquiry asserted in order to be able, I mean, upon which, upon which premise it came into power. Within 49 days, you are going to, you are going to wipe out Boko Haram. Within a particular period, the dollar is going to be this or that or the rest of that. A period of almost eight years, are you fulfilling that? So it's not an issue that, it's not, it's not, the fact is not that in the past administration, there have not been challenges, but that Nigerians trusted you that you are going to give them a better life. Are you doing that? The answer to that is no. Well, of course, we're going to leave that one open-ended. But let me go to Alesta Wilcox. Alesta, the presidency has said that it's ready to keep the country together. And I want to quote them directly. Even if it ruffles unruly feathers, they said, in the process. Now, what's happening, what we're seeing in the country, the disaffection that Mrs. Hamunullah has been making reference to, the insecurity, you know, the much disaffection that we're experiencing today. Does it seem that the government has been able to keep people together? And if they have, why are we at this point where we are today? Well, thank you very much. I listened to Mr. Hamunullah very well. I think he's my brother. By going by name, Hamunullah, I think he's my brother. So I wonder if he was speaking for the PDP, I think. I just asked you a question, Alesta. Let's answer my question. Then you can speak on it, Hamunullah. Can I take my question, please? Can I take my question? I have freedom of speech now. Let me answer, please. Now, if you're talking about a disaffection, I can never, I can't imagine when Nigerians have never experienced disaffection with governments. This is not the first time. It made a mistake that this was the first time I've been alleged coup plot. This is not the first time. During the time of Abbas and Jo, there was an alleged for coup plot. Even in the time of President Yara when he was sick, there was an alleged attempt at coup plot. Those are not things that are strength in Nigerian politics. I don't know about disaffection because it has always been there and will always have disaffection. So long as there is struggle for power and one side of the divide takes power, there will always be disaffection. It happens all over the world. Go to the UK, between the labor and the conservative. Oh, go to America, Democrat and Republican. There will always be disaffection because who sees from different angles. And so it's not unusual. Right now, maybe, and I will always say, sometimes we exaggerate situations in order to score our point or make our points clear, there has been, nobody looks at, each time we talk about this government, nobody looks at achievements. We always want to protect the country in such a bad light that nobody looks at any achievement that is being done. Rather, we use one incident to expand. We speak as if Nigeria is the place nobody lives inside. Go on the streets. Everybody tells you nobody lives in Nigeria. Everywhere is bad. Every corner is bad. You can't travel on the road. I travel on the road every time. Grifently, I go to Protacot by road. I come back. Thousands of cars do that. So some of these things are either politically motivated or overblotted out of proportion. Not to say that there are no challenges. There are challenges. The issue of agitation is long in our country. We've not, I can't remember last time, through either state creation, local government creation, self-sufficiency, it's not through tie-haring self-sufficiency movement. The Biafra tried it in the 70s, in the 60s. The Masab tried it, I've been on it since 2002 or there about. So it's not a new thing. Rather right now, what is happening is based on political expediencies, based on non-state divide, we're spanning this horizon. So it's not that of place for people to want to capitalize on this overblotted, I call it overblotted, security challenges, overblotted out of proportion, security risks to want to try any foul thing. And that is why there's a government in place and the government has the capacity to detect and so they've dictated and they are warning. Remember recently, just last week, a very prominent, let me not mention his name, I like mentioning him, but I will not mention, a very prominent religious leader in this country, a leader of PFN, talked about, I mean, came on and said, the President should leave. Such a statement. And what is wrong with that? If somebody said, these people elected the President and if the person says, I mean, they all have rights to their opinion. Hold on, what is wrong in me saying if my President cannot do what he promised, then he should honorably step down. Is that a crime? This is a President that was elected. Is that a crime, is that a lesson? Is it a crime to ask a President who had rolled on the wings of bringing us security, peace, safety, employment and fighting Boko Haram? What is wrong in asking that President to step down if he's unable to do his job? Honorably, what is wrong with that? No, I ask the question, it's a yes or no answer. What is wrong with it? I'm answering you, let me answer you, everything is wrong because there are ways by which you can remove the President from office. There are, the Consulate provided a way to remove the President from office. If the individuals are- I'm sorry, I'm so sorry, I apologize. I apologize, but I wanna just, you know, collect something out. There's a difference between me making a move to remove a person and me saying to you, honorably step down if you cannot do the job. The operating word is if. So there's a difference between asking you to and actively trying to get you out of office. I'm sorry, you are not the one that made the statement. Well, I'm trying to make you understand the sentence structure in this conversation. I am the one that brought it to court. I'm the one that brought it to court. So let me expand just on it. What I'm saying is the context upon which you will wake up either on your code piece or whatever and say the President should leave the office. Now, if you feel strongly about policies, you are free to accept, probably it's not the type of policies. If you feel strongly that the President can do a lot of things, then you can table a motion as an individual or a representative from the National Assembly for its impeachment, but you don't look. That is the kind of statements that are going on on this gravity. You don't go and put at that level, at that level of leadership, controlling, knowingfully whether you have so many flaws under your code and you make such statements. Those can be transmitted to insurrection. So the statements you make, how you make it and the context you make it is very important and so that people do not misread your statements. And by so doing, carry out acts that are not intended by your statement because at that level, you are not just talking for yourself, you are talking for millions of other people who you are leading. So it is different for me and individual to say the President should leave and you that controls thousands of followers, millions of followers to make such statements in public. So these are the things that we must get again. If there is areas you are not satisfied, point them out and I keep talking about also point out areas that are okay, point out bad areas, then make an informed opinion. Which is always bad, bad, bad, bad. Because maybe the side is supported, didn't win and at all time will bring down this other side. I don't think we're happy with the point. Thank you very much. Let's move to Mr. Dimeji Fabi. Let me ask, because I want to pick up from where Alastair left off. At what point does criticizing any government whatsoever in power become a cool plot as the presidency has alleged? At what point does constructive criticism or people crying foul because they are no longer feeling safe according to all of the people who have been coming out to speak. Either asking that the banditry issue be dealt with, Boko Haram hoisting their flag in Niger state or the kidnappings everywhere. At what point does criticism become a cool plot or send vibes to the people to want to overthrow a government? Well, thank you very much and good evening viewers. Let me start by saying that as a country, I think we've really mixed certain things and that thing is being honest with each other. It's an unfortunately the Nigerian government is not seems Nigerian government is not being honest with the people of Nigeria. First and foremost, I'd like to say that there is no cool plot anywhere. The federal government is just chasing shadows and they know what they're doing. If you come out and tell us that, okay, we know those who are behind this, then what are you waiting for? You don't leave fire over your roof and go to sleep. As far as I know, and then a lot of criticism that you see out there is a reflection of the convergence of opinion. The convergence of the summit of opinion that Nigeria is gradually becoming a failed state. They are genuine criticisms. Everybody that has spoken about the presentation of Nigeria today have shown so much concern about the situation. It has never been this bad. And if a government, a responsible government, so to speak is taking those constructive criticisms as being antagonistic to the government, being an attempt to organize a cool plot, it means that that government is confused and that government is not really honest with the people. They are only afraid of their own shadows. And that's why I support the gentleman that first spoke. Nigeria is in a bad situation and we must all agree to this. It's not about politics, because those that are being killed on daily basis. But Alastair disagrees with you. He's saying that you're all blowing this out of proportion. You're all making a molehill, a mountain out of... Are we blowing the territory in the country out of proportion? And he's saying that you all seem to be making... Alastair is saying that things are not bad and that there are good things that are happening, but we never ever talk about those good things. So I'm wondering, as someone who's in the opposition... With due respect, with due respect... Are you sure that you're not being biased towards the government? I live in Lagos. With due respect to the gentleman, I don't know whether he lives in another country or not. Even in Lagos, it says he's living. How many people are living in Lagos? Now please, let us be honest with ourselves. This government of President Muammar Dubar is fond of coming out to say we know this, and at the end of the day, they should be able to be above board, no matter what. We are not saying they are not trying to... Alastair, please, can you exercise some decorum? Let the gentleman speak when you were speaking? Yes, yes, yes. I don't know why he has to go to that extent. Now, what I'm saying is that the government has to be honest. The government has to be honest with Nigerians. A lot of things suggest that things are not who I am supposed to be. Many prominent Nigerians on daily basis are coming out to advise this government. Of recent, is the former vice president of Nigeria, who told them this is the time to declare war on terror. If other went to say that, go ahead and get... We call them reserves in the US or in the UK. Go and get the ex-military service that Nigerians have used, that have been used Nigerian money to train, to come back to this unit top. But when a government is so arrogant, this is what you get. So looking for a makeshift to say that there's a coup plot somewhere, as far as I know, it's very, very duplex. So as far as I know, it shows that the government is confused and they don't know what they want to do. Recently, the former Senate president of Nigeria, he wrote the president an open letter. They should go back to that letter and do what is there. It is simple. You came on board to tell us that you can handle security. I tell everybody who cares to listen that I personally will never forgive as a president for failing in security. Just like I will never forgive the vice president with the way our judicial system is. Because the impression we're given was that they are A to A class to the first class student in security and judiciary and law. So why are we having this problem? So as far as I know, the DSS came on board and said, we know these people. Why can't you go after them and bring them to the court? Let Nigerians see that I will support you. I'll press the government if they're able to do that. It goes beyond coming out to tell us that we know them, I am not doing anything. That is just keep blackmail as far as I know. And I stand with my party, this is not a matter of hope, but I stand with the portion of my party that this government is just chasing shadows, as you wake up and do what is right for Nigerians. We are being killed on daily basis. The economy is in bad shape. So if someone out there on the national TV is telling me everything is going right, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, that's quite unfortunate. Let us take something for instance, a government that we all voted for. This is democracy. And Nigerians are happy that we're having democracy. You said in the open remark that we had a president who at some point on point of order in this country truncated democracy. So is it all these people that are giving credible advice and suggestions to Nigeria that are now planning coup to overturn this government? This government has lost the credibility. They have lost the respect of the people. They have lost the confidence of the people that sit down and have a rethink and give Nigeria the kind of governance that we desire or deserve. All right, I just wanna go back to Mr. Tamanola. I just wanna look at the weight of this statement because of course, like the presidency said and I want to reiterate, they would not mind ruffling unruly feathers. But I wanna go back to something that Ohaneze and Pandef said, they lambasted the presidency. In fact, they said that this is a democracy and it's not a military rule. They said that they were not interested in un-sitting anybody. In fact, they urged the president to deal with the situation in the country and leave speculation. In fact, they did say that it was embarrassing for a president to call former leaders, former political leaders, especially vice presidents and former presidents, that there was a word that was used. It just fails me now. More like saying that these people were angry that they were not being carried along. They were given a name and they're saying that this is very unruly of this government to name names. In fact, they did not just talk about political leaders. They talked about, it means that we're talking about Khan here. We're talking about the GNI and they're saying these people are supposed to or are plotting allegedly to overthrow the government. Does it mean that every single person, every preacher, whether it's a Muslim cleric or a Christian cleric, does it mean that former president, good luck, Janosan, former vice president, Tukua Bubaka, former president, Ulusha Gwabasanjan, I mean the list is endless, that all of these people could be ganging up against their own country because ganging up against this government means it's a gang up against the presidency and legally do these people, although they've not been named, but if they were to be named, do they have a grounds to drag this government to court if they do not produce an evidence? The answer is definitely negative. The answer is negative. And one of the high points of a democratic setting like I've earlier stated is constructive criticism. And when you are criticized, the essence of it is the people who are criticizing you, the objective is that they want you to do better, that's one. And with all due respect, a cross section of the groups that have been aforementioned were groups that supported this current administration to come into administration. I mean, would you say that Ulusha Gwabasanjan has criticized the administration because of a coup plotting? I mean, you've always known Ulusha Gwabasanjan, our past president, at one point in time or the other, he criticized the immediate past administration and he's criticizing the current one. Will it be because of coup plotting? As a matter of fact, I can tell you any attempt by any military for a coup plot in this nation will fail because we've gone beyond that. What Mr. President has just been asked to do is to secure our lives. In terms of security, go to the mud, go to Brown state. Brown state was one of the states that stood behind this current administration in times against the previous administration. The issue we are talking here with all due respect to my colleagues on the platform is not an issue of PDP, APC, or any other party. It's our destiny. And if we fail to be truthful, to be honest, I'm encouraged Mr. President to scramblin' the institutions at the end of the day, we won't be here to witness the things that are going to happen. Nigeria is definitely degenerating. In terms of the economy, what is the value of the Naira to the dollar? In terms of our, we promised us there'll be deregulation and at the end of the day, in spite of your deregulation, for goodness sake, where are the refineries? Where are the other things? These are questions that are begging answers. I'm not here to criticize Mr. President. I'm not here to criticize Mr. President. The most important thing is I'm begging him. Mr. Tamerla, we have to go. Let him give a listen here. We have to go. To the constructive criticism, nobody's going to on-site. If he's going to be on-site, it has to be by democratic means. We hear you. Let him with full due respect. Stop. Come and address the Nigerian people and secure them. We need to go. We need to go. Time is not on our side, but I want to thank you, Christy Tamerla, Lester Wilcox, and Mr. Fabiyee for being part of this conversation. We appreciate you all. Unfortunately, we could not go further with this conversation, but thank you. We don't have a lot of response there. We don't have a lot of response there. Well, we need to take a short break now when we return as regarding the abduction of the Greenfield University students, what should the Nigerian government do in this regard? Well, Ahmed Khuni will be telling us exactly what he thinks the government should do.