 Okay. I think we're ready to call this meeting to order. Thank you all for your patience while we finished our Executive Session Business. The first item on our agenda is always 15 minutes for public comment. Is there anybody here who wants to speak with us in, as a matter of public comment, on a topic that is not on our agenda? Anybody? Nobody? Okay. Okay. So what that means is from here on out, we are sticking to items that are on the agenda. That's our focus tonight. So last call, topics on the agenda. So that means we won't take public comment just? That's right. That's right. Any other discussion tonight will be only as confined to the agenda that we have. Does that make sense to everybody who's here? Yes. Not your head if that makes sense to you, please. Okay. Thank you very much. Okay. The first item of business, well, we have the warrants that are circulating. Somebody hasn't signed them, John. Are there any changes to the agenda? Nope. Okay. So we have a consent agenda which is to approve the edited minutes of our August 22nd regular meeting, and to approve and sign the 2022 parcel mapping contract that we got from the Listers. Is it Listers or Planning Commission? Listers. It's a Listers. Okay. Is there a motion on the consent agenda? So moved. Thank you. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. I have it here to circulate. Okay. Great. And Hansi and Alfred, Rick, are we expecting Alfred? I didn't get, I was gone today, so I couldn't talk to him. Well, I said, he got the agenda, and then I sent a follow-up email to you and Alfred about the East Cal's Community Trust, ROW, which I need to recuse myself from, so I will sit in the audience. Okay. Is that next? Well, it is, but I don't know that we want to talk about it without Alfred here. And similarly on the, so under the ROJ report, we had those. Well, it's not, you know what? I know, it's not 750 yet. Right. So maybe, maybe Rick would talk about the. Yes. Group pavement and bike signs. Right now, I don't have anything still. I'm sorry, I just haven't had time to dig into it from, so I still have to go to the MUT and see what we can do. Okay. On that, so. On both group pavement and bike signs. So looking ahead to the 26, we have quite, quite a long list on that night. Well, so Rick, let me just say to you, I was driving through Maple Corner, and I spoke with somebody yesterday. They're, you know, they're delighted that we're going to be doing something. So what do you think the timing is? Well, I'm waiting, we're waiting right now. We've made the order for the digital signs, the written signs. Okay, okay. So when that gets. So those are ordered? Right. And then I saw that sign got moved down. I have to ask Alfred about this. It got put down right in the village, which is the opposite direction where that should have been. If it was going to get moved, it should have gone up. Yeah, you said up there. Above the TN, so I don't know who or why that went down there. That was, I bring what I said before. There's no good where it is. Okay. So, so another one, I just saw that too. So the signs have been ordered. And I don't remember what the time frame is when they might arrive. It could be, you know, outside two months from the time we ordered, which is a few weeks ago. So, but it may be sooner. So you want to talk about the other two items on the 26th or what's our first October meeting? Yeah, I'm just trying for those off in the 26th. Are you sure though? Because I mean, I'm asking because if we're going to make time on that agenda, I really want to make sure. I will try to definitely have it on. You'll try to definitely. Sure, let me do. Maybe we should check in before we do the agenda. Let's just do that. What's the first meeting in October? Did you look it up? It's the 10th, which is a holiday. But we can talk about that in a second. It's a freaking holiday. It's almost there. Or in Indigenous Peoples' Day. So, OK, so Rick, I'm going to flip that. We'll write it down. If you're not going to be ready, let me know by the middle of the week before. So those two items we'll carry over to the 26th. Would you like me to talk about personnel updates while we're waiting? Yeah, I guess that's our, gosh, yeah, that's our next item. OK, so personnel updates. The tax checks are coming in fast and furious, which is a great thing. And I went in to do training along with Barbara. And we decided that actually just having one person enter the tax checks made sense and Barbara's learned how to do that. She has spent a ton of time entering tax checks. Nemrick, Wendy recommended that we break down her time so we can keep track of it better and put her hours as doing the tax checks under assistant treasurer to keep track of the time. Which is the position she resigned. Right, and I don't know. Just an allocation. Right, it's a paper allocation. And it doesn't reappoint her or any of that stuff, but it's just a way for us to track the time. So I just wanted to bring that up to see if that made sense to folks before we go too far. We have advertised everywhere for the treasurer business manager position again. It's been in seven days. It's been in the Hardware Gazette, The Times Argus, Front Forge Forum, a whole bunch of assorted Facebook pages. We have four inquiries. One of them said, she didn't send me her resume, but she asked a couple questions which I answered and she hasn't responded. There was another one who was very interested, but she wanted to know what the salary was. She told me what she was making currently and there's no way we could match that salary. Which just isn't in the town budget regardless. So we have two prospective applicants to interview. I think we should interview both. I think we should interview anybody who applies. So we just need to come up with a time to schedule and set up interviews. I think we talked about the 20th, but I realized today the 20th is also the planning commission's big meeting about the zoning regs and all that. So I'm hoping we could schedule it maybe to the Thursday of that week, which would be the 22nd and do both of the, you know, stagger them. So what time did that be in the evening? Yeah, I think so. I could not do it before seven. I have a meeting at four. Me too. So the 22nd is the Thursday, right? Yeah. So could folks do it on the 22nd at seven? Yes. And then do we think, how long do you think? Half an hour, 45 minutes? We're interviewing two candidates. We're going to be here for an hour for each. An hour for each. I think we want to leave our shelter room. Yeah. I think we should plan, my suggestion, guys, is we plan on a 45 minute interview. With 15 minutes to digest. 15 minutes in between to digest and make sure that people can leave gracefully. So 7 p.m. On the 22nd and we'll warn that as a special meeting. But as we've discussed, interviews are confidential. That's right. Okay. Hang on. So I got to make sure I get the date right. Everyone got that in your notes, the Thursday, the 22nd at 7 p.m. for two interviews. Yep. And let's actually say this out loud. Are those ads still running? They are, and we said that we would keep the position open until filled. I think that I got way late when I said I was going to repost, or did I repost? I did. Okay. I will say again that I'll do it, and then we'll see if I remember. So if we get another candidate, John Rick, if we get another candidate between now and the 22nd, are you guys okay if Denise maybe shuffles our thoughts a little bit around timing and we invite somebody else that evening? Yeah, yeah. Right? I mean, I don't think we, I think we want to interview anybody who- I have a meeting till six, that's all. Anybody who's a credible candidate. Right. Yeah, right. Okay, so, all right, so that'll be our, that'll be on the 22nd. Thursday, September 22nd. And I'll look on the calendar and see if this is available. If not, we'll have to do the town office. Okay, we can, there's rather one other thing we can do, we're waiting. Rescheduling Town Highway 7 hearing. Town Highway 7 continued hearing was supposed to be next Monday the 19th. And we have some information that we're waiting for, so it doesn't make any sense to- Well, we have a survey hired. But it's not ready. And the surveyor needs to prepare a report, and not, the survey is behind on that. Right. So we need to reschedule the meeting so that we have, because the survey will be a matter of public record. So, yeah. Right, so the sequencing we're talking about is point number one. We are, I guess, canceling next week's. Yeah, and Joe said that we should- And next week was not a formal public hearing, but we thought that it would be, we would be convening to actually for board deliberation. But instead, we realized when we get a survey, we need to admit that, which is a matter of public record. So we need a time when we do that. And I guess that means that we've opened the hearing and other people can come forward if they have something they want to add. Right, we can add it to the record or people can remove things from the record. Do you, I don't think Mark, I think Mark said that he's, we pick a date and he's, he'll make it work. Right. Okay, so- So we just need to pick a calendar. And we probably don't want to put it into October. Maybe I don't know how far behind this survey or isn't his work. Well, we've all, yeah. So we could do it, Monday October 3rd is maybe early to do all the reposting and redo the thing? Not really. If the survey's ready. If the survey's ready. So we can go out a little further so we have more confidence. Well, let's see from Joe. I can send Joe an email and say, will it be ready so we can do this on the 3rd? Because we've got to know if Joe's available too. Can I, excuse me, can I say something? Yes, go ahead, go ahead. I'm going to be, I'm getting kind of involved with this issue. And I'm fortunate to be away and then the first, those are your weeks of October. I was, so let me say two things about that. One, notwithstanding Reed's conflict, I was going to suggest the 17th as being a little further out and gives us more window. Otherwise we're having this conversation again in some more awkward way. And the other thing Reed is if we do it on the 17th, which we haven't decided to do, and you're still away, what we're going to do that night is accept into evidence a survey that will be a matter of public record immediately. And then we are in the same place that we were at the last meeting where the board says, okay, thanks y'all. We've got to go and look at everything, ask our questions, see where we are. So it's, it's in the scheme of things I would imagine it's not a big night to miss. If that's any comfort to you. And the survey, the survey we would post on the website. It would post, and we'll have the camera here. To capture whatever does happen. Yeah. So, okay. So let me go back to the idea of the 17th. How do people feel about that? The 17th is not a regular meeting date, but if the 10th is a holiday, I don't have any problem meeting on the 10th. I don't know about anybody else. Well, let's process that question. Because that might help us decide this question. How do people feel about meeting on the 10th? That's Columbus Day. Yes, it is. Indigenous people day. Indigenous people, that's right. I mean, we could meet. We could meet. What, why are we trying? First, we don't even know if the report's going to be ready. We're talking about a regular select board meeting on the 10th. This is regular. That's the 10th is the second, the second. Yes. So we're, we're, we got a lot of balls near here trying to keep up. So we're saying the 10th is a regular select board meeting. It's the second Monday of the month. Do we want to meet in a regular meeting that night? That's the question. I say yes. I'm good with it. I guess so. I'm, I'm finally at two. And then that leaves. So now the second question is, do we want to meet on the 17th? To hopefully accept into, at, under town highway seven, open that, have that hearing opened up to accept the survey and any other new evidence people want to offer that night. That will be a relatively short meeting, I would imagine. Right. Except for then we might go into deliberations after. Well, we could go into deliberations or we could just say this is when we're going to meet to deliberate because everybody's time to like, look at all, look at everything all in one package. But that'll be the discussion. That'll be the discussion we have that night. That's right. We'll decide to do. So, because if we get the survey ahead of time, we can post it ahead. Yep. So question again is how do people feel about having their time, how, highway seven, we're calling it hearing, but it's, it's. It's a continued. It's continued from the meeting in July. July 18th. Yep. Rick, how are you on the 17th? I'll make it work. John. Yeah. Okay. So the 17th is when we're going to. Seven o'clock. Yes. And what I'd like to do is have it so that we notice the 17th of October at the same time we're not going to be meeting on the 19th of September if that's possible. Yeah. We just have to do one notice. Yep. So I think we've decided October 17th to 17th. Yeah. Okay. Do we, do we have to do motion to change all this? I don't think so. Okay. Let it be so. Scheduling. All right. It's all right. So those things are done. I do actually want to circle back to personnel Denise. We had a question about the nature of the. The treasurer business manager position that we posted and I wanted to just make a couple of points about that title. Yeah. I raised a question that I was asked. Denise, yeah. Denise raised the issue and I will just outline what the concern generally was. So we've posted a combined or actually a better term I think is an integrated position for treasurer and business manager and there was some question about the nature of the, you know, quote, business manager piece of it. And the term manager, we talked a little bit about this in the meeting in the end of July if folks were here, you may, this may sound familiar. That piece of the position is really, it's supporting the select board in being more efficient and more effective in our job so that we just, we signed a contract tonight. Things have to happen with that contract. It has to land in somebody's hands. It has to be filed in the town offices. Every piece of business we do has lots of tentacles that go other places. Right now that's all being done. I'm going to say by the select board, but the truth is being done mostly by Denise. And the rest of us are, all of us are doing the best we can with so, so, so many balls in the air. So having somebody who's full-time job is working as treasurer and supporting us and making sure that we stay on track and things are efficient is the role of this position. There's an HR piece to it. That is supporting us and administering HR. HR being human resources. Human resources. For example, when somebody new is in the employee of the town road crew, that means gathering social security number and address and certain pieces of information and paperwork and getting them set up in the system. It is not the same as being an HR manager. The decider of whether this person gets to stay on or gets a bonus or a raise. It's a, it is not that. It is a, it is not management in that sense. It's really managing us as a select board in terms of keeping the administrative train on the track. So I wanted to just say that out loud because other positions, other towns have a, have a business manager position that is a very different kind of role and might cause different kinds of concerns to come up. Like, well, wait a minute. What does this mean if this person is my boss, but this person improves my raise? That's not what we're talking about here. And I just want to say that on the record for anybody who has those questions rattling around in their minds or in their conversations. Thanks for clarifying. Okay. I think it was really important to make that clear on the record. Does anybody on the board want to add anything when I just said? No. Okay. Okay. So we are circling back up to our road report topic. Welcome, Alfred. Welcome, Peter. Why don't we start. Ryan's here. And who? Who? Ryan Edwards is here for East House. And Ryan Edwards is here. And actually I was going to say let's start with Peter, but I'm that clock is on track so we'll go. We will, Peter, pick you guys up for your 15 minutes at 8.15. Okay. So we have an application for use of the town right of way for the East Calus community trust. And who is going to speak to this? I'm just going to, for the record, I'm going to recuse myself on this. Okay. Thank you for this because you are. Because I'm the vice chair of the Calus community trust. Okay. And Ryan, are you here for that? Yes. Okay. Come up and join us please. And I don't know. I think that's Soda was here when we got here earlier. So I was not for a guest. You could take it with you if you want. Ryan, you want to say your name and and just speak. Yeah. So I'm Ryan Edwards on the project architect working with the East Calus community trust and developing, you know, the plans and specifications for the project. And I'm here this evening as a representative of the East Calus community trust, the applicant for the the Calus right away permit application that was submitted on May 24th, which we primarily require due to we're going to be we're proposing to replace the septic line under route 14 that runs from the building across the road to where they existing septic tank is located. It would be replaced with a directional board technique, which is mandated by by V trans. We already have a V trans 1111 permit application that's been approved by the state to perform this work, given that it's in the right of way over 14. And we need a California way permit because we're going to be basically excavating right in the middle of that paved apron at the intersection of backstreet and reporting in an area pretty close to where the emergency work was completed back in December. I remember that I'm I'm pretty sure I printed your application here. I have it too. Okay, so Alfred you want to so what so this is because this involves use of the town's right of way and Alfred is the road expert. I'm going to ask Alfred if you had a chance to look at this and whether you have items you want us to list as conditions or restrictions on this project. Well, I'll start off with a question. Are you going to be digging beyond the apron that the town installed? Yes, do you mean to like the gravel portion of the backstreet? I'm familiar with the boring. I know they have to dig back before they can pour it down underneath the road. Yeah. So my question is, are you back before the apron? Yeah, so the the trench is approximately eight by 16 feet that we'll be digging on the backstreet side and that that hole we're going to be digging will be I think it's approximately three or four feet in the gravel portion of the backstreet and bleeding into the paved portion of the vehicle. So you will have to start at the apron? Yes, the apron will be at the start of the apron. The action is very important because you're going to pave it back assuming you're going to repair the pavement. Yes, yeah in the gravel portion of the backstreet as well. So to further my questions, I think that you're going to be working, you know, replacing some foundation on the building on the backstreet side as well? No, the only work that's happening on the backstreet side is we'll be we're going to be reconstructing existing, there's a failed wood retaining wall next to the there's a back covered porch. We're reconstructing that retaining wall however we're reconstructing it on the ECCT property right now it's actually it's in the town right away on backstreet. So that's going to get moved back onto the ECCT property. Okay, so that should be included in the permit as well. We're not just replacing the septic, now we're also fixing a retaining wall. What's that? I don't know, we're replacing the septic though. You're not replacing the septic? Line has not been done yet. Oh, the line, yeah the line here. Yeah, but you're also replacing, you're also working in the right way to replace that wall. Correct. So I'm just saying that should be included in the permit. So Alfred, have you had a chance to see the permit? Yes. The application? I couldn't run it off today because I might be in trauma risk out of date. Okay, so here's my, let me just read it out loud for you and for everybody. The project involves trenching through backstreet and across Vermont Route 14 to install a new sewer line from the building to an existing septic system across the road. So that's the sewer point. It also involves repaving the existing parking lot along the edge of Vermont Route 14. Vermont VTRA and State Highway Access and Work Permit is concurrently being applied for so you attach site plans. So two things, the repaving of the parking lot and the septic line. That's what's included in the permit. Right. And so my question is, is there work that you're proposing that isn't being, that you, these are the, these are the two projects. Say effect, you've mentioned the, the apron and the sewer line is in there. Is there any other element to the work that is missing from here? Well, like he mentioned, I think it would be, I mean, we can certainly provide them with a project. That's what I'm wondering is if we should go to, if you guys want to amend this, and then Alfred, if you want to, have you guys been out and met, looked at it with Ryan or you know the site very well, I know. I know the site, I have seen the, the site plan. Okay. So bottom line is, Ryan, is there any urgency that we approve this tonight? No. Okay. But if I were to, if I were to provide an amended project description, would that be something that can be approved? I say the next. Yes. Select for me. I have a question. This is all getting done at the same time. That's reasonable. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Confusing point. Okay. I have a question too. And this is just about the shoulder material, Alfred. I want to make sure, I don't know what the sub-base is on the back street, but it probably isn't much. It's sand. It's all sand. So I mean that, whatever they get, it's back, they'll be willing to use the same material that they scrape out of the sub-base. When they backfill that, so they fit as the perfect, not a different material. So is it moving differently? Is it ease? Right. Well, I guess it sort of depends on how big the area is disturbed. Yeah, I don't know. I'm guessing it's just going to be probably enough superior about the width. And so you would want different materials. And that would be the hole width of the road where you could use a dense grade, something that's a little more stable. But it is. It's absolutely sand. I mean, you're going to get maybe... So it's not an issue. I just want to make sure that that wasn't a different material that was something that wasn't pretty radically different, and then have it heaved differently in the wintertime. So if it was... I mean, for example, there was an issue when they had emergency repair of the line, where there was some sinking of where they had excavated through a pair of the line that had to get remedied. No, no. So we'll make sure that, no, that's not something that happened this far. Okay. So that was the wintertime. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, I guess. So it sounds like I... I'm wondering if we can approve this, so they can get going on this, because the issue of if we wait too long and things start getting cold, you're going to have the same settling issues. Does anybody have a clean copy? I mean, I'm flexible, but I do want to make sure... If there's something missing project-wise, there's a difference between what the project is and the conditions. But if there's something missing from project-wise, then at least I took notes on mine. You have a clean version? No, I have a question. If the wall that's being replaced isn't being changed, isn't being moved, isn't doing anything, why do we even need a permanent and some insisting footprint? That should work in the right of way. Anyone construction in the right of way? I would suggest, Brian, that we come back and get file on another application and get this one down. This has been sitting around since May. So, John is proposing, I'm going to expand on your thought, John, that somebody pull up a clean copy and, Ryan, you can just write something in here. I don't really have a problem with that, but I do want what we've approved to be complete. And we can do it one of two ways. We can do it with... I mean, I can cross off my little notes. I mean, I have a copy actually. You do. All right. Well, there's one. Do you have a hard copy? It's not the hard copy, it's photocopy actually. Oh, that's fine. Original one. And I have the application, the original application. Is that what you're talking about? Yeah, that's all I'm talking about. Yes, so to just add the thing that people are... Can you get it right? Do you want to add? Yeah, sure. You have to have the piece... Retaining one more. Yeah, I can add language about... Because they talk about repaving the parking lot and the existing septic system. If there's a retaining wall component, then let's just get it done. And then Alfred, in terms of the conditions, tell me, you were asking Ryan some questions. Do they crystallize for you in terms of what conditions you're looking for? This is very important. Yeah. You're going to have to close the road most likely. Yes. So proper signage that follows MUCTD. And Alfred, you're available to consult if that's necessary? Yes. Yeah, I mean, it's something we would... I mean, we would definitely reach out anyways on the... Exactly. For the smartest condition. Yep. And we'll provide traffic cones and all that stuff, signage to close the road. That's not what we usually do. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. The last time we did this, Alfred, did one of you ask to use the term as well? It becomes a liability when the Constitution there... So when do you... So if there's a contractor that's going to be digging up the road, he's going to have signs. So we have... Oh, okay. Yes. I mean, it's every contractor has one. Okay. So it just needs to have the process signed. Okay. So what I have documented is full compaction material upon completion of the project and proper signage upon closing of the road and consultation with the Road Commission. Anything else? Also, the work there other than the back street is in the state part of it. So they haven't called the states criteria for the payment. Okay. John, Rick, any other questions, comments? Is there a motion to approve the permit with the conditions... The amended permit is right and is amending it with the conditions discussed. So move second. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Okay. Any other suggestions? This is what we did the last time we just attached a copy of the minutes portion of this assessment requirements to the sign permit. And then it's clear. Yep. Which is an excellent example of what a select board business manager would take care of. Okay, so... And if Mark was here, he would be with you. Ryan, thank you very much. Oh, thank you. Thank you very much, Ryan. I lost my agenda, you guys. Yeah, you're welcome. I like that. Like, Kito, where are we? Alfred, when Ryan exits, I would love for you to join us. Thank you. Thank you, Ryan. And so, yeah, Alfred, come on up for joining us. We, while we bumped the group payment as an alternative and biking signs to the 26th so that you and the RIC will have more opportunity to crystallize the proposal around those items. That leaves. I'm going to just ask you to fill us in on any general thoughts on your mind and specifically what we put on the agenda is hearing from you about confirming that the training occurred with the road crew around the road standards and that you have that confirmation signed, that we signed that. Did you do... We talked about it extensively. We... We, the road crew. Okay. It was not ready to sign any more time. Do you... One thing I want to add, and Alfred and I were talking about this, I have concerns about some of the standards in some of the road with this. So, but I recommended he had issues with that around safety around, you know, because they do deviate pretty far from Ashto standards, which are statutorily, you know, what we have to follow now. The question is, you know, I told him a good thing to do would be to mark up a set of a... Work with the crew, mark up a set of the standards and show us those areas that are particularly problematic in that. That's all right. And then we can... I think we, we, we, as a board, I want to discuss that. I don't want to... I'm nervous about forcing him to sign something that doesn't meet standard. You know, which we're obligated essentially by our funding is tied to that. And so I think we... And now I, you know, so I want to make sure that we're aware what we're doing. Is that reasonable? So, well, let me... Actually, let's do this. Yeah, Denise, you speak. John, then I have some comments. I mean, all we're asking for in signing this is that they've read them. They understand them. And... But they're, they're afraid that that's putting them responsible. If they're, if they're signing something that they're approved, so-called approving, and gonna implement something that is unsafe, that could hold them liable. That's their fear now. Where did that fear go? That's not what's going on. First off, these standards have been approved by the select board. They were run past the state. The state approved them as meeting state standards. So, so they are the town's standards. They're obligated to follow them now. This is just an acknowledgement that they have completed review of them in training. It's not an acknowledgement that they are the police, that they are liable. They're not liable. They're employees of the town following the town directors. Now, if they feel like they're being, by following them on any particular project, that puts them in a position of responsibility or liability, your job as manager is to contact us, one of us, or all of us, immediately, and have us go down there and see what's going on. And why that's a liability and why that's a violation of state law. And hang on. So, let's talk about the standards. We need to talk about it. Alfred. Because I can come up with several reasons. Alfred, let me, let me, let me. I have a right to talk to you. No, you don't. What you do when I, when I ask you, because I said Denise is going to speak, John is going to speak, and then I have a comment I want to make. Okay. Well, I didn't really get to finish. Would you like to finish? Yeah, all this is basically saying is that they receive them and they reviewed them. That's all it's saying. I don't know how they can read anything more into that with regard to them having some kind of liability. I mean, these standards have been in place since 2014. Right. But. But Alfred, and nobody, up until now, nobody on the road crew has come to the board and said, hey, can we review these? You're here like every other meeting or every meeting. And you never say anything about, you know, Alfred, let me, I want to add. You can answer it, Ashley. I want, no, I want to add to, I want to, I want to make sure Denise is done. And then I want to add. And then, then we're going to, then it will, then it will be your, your turn, Denise, finish. You know, they've been in place as something that the town has worked on. As John said, they've been approved by the state and we keep going around and around and around about these road standards and not implementing them. I get it. If there's issues, then the road crew needs to get together under your direction and come up with something to present to the board as to why we can't use the standards that we currently have. That doesn't mean that you can't sign the paper saying that they've been received because I had the office staff make. Reviewed. Reviewed. I've had the office staff make copies for everybody, copy of the memo. All they're doing is signing saying that they've received them and they've reviewed them. So, so let me add one more point. My concern, well, what John said and what Denise said, we're just asking them to acknowledge that they've received. These are the select board standards. So the position, the road crew, all of you are putting yourselves in is rejecting the select board standards that are not new, that apparently, that happened before my time which is why these were apparently, but I've been told over and over that they were approved by the state. You're putting yourselves in the road crew in the position of making an independent judgment over the judgment of the select board about what the standards for the town are and that is also a very precarious position to be putting yourselves in. Okay, so first of all, the standard is not complete. I've read it several times. It is not complete. The select board was supposed to dictate which roads were going to be which width. There's 12 foot, 14 foot, and 20 foot. We don't know which roads you guys want to be which width. So the standard is not complete. Can I assume that Lightning Ridge Road is going to be 12 feet wide? Traveling portion is 12 feet wide? I'm not going to assume that, but I have to assume that you guys need to make that decision. That has not been done in seven years. That was supposed to, Sharon, please. You're right. You're right. Go ahead. That was supposed to have been done back in 2017 when this was first adopted. 14. Never got done. So here we are in 2022. It's re-adopted. Nothing has been changed. Nothing has been complete about those roads. I don't know which roads you want to be what width. 12 foot road wide, to me, is not enough for any road. Not when you're meeting people at 25 miles an hour. And that's being generous. People like God tried to fit two miles an hour on some of these roads. 12 foot is not enough. I really want to put some barricades out here on Moscow. This road right out can't yell and just demonstrate what a 12 foot wide road is and see what people think of it. And secondly, I want to know that the taxpayers of this town are okay with that standard because I talk to a lot of people and they have no idea what this even is. They have no idea what I'm talking about. So that's another request that I will have is that this goes out on my front porch forum or somehow get to the whole public. Yeah, it's on the website. It's so John, I'm going to ask John to make a comment or ask his question. He raised his hand. I'm going to ask one. Then I'll go to Denise and we'll just go around. So John first. So to your point that the select board has not followed through my first up, I remember there was a map of different colored map where they talked about, but we did not set the standard here. Correct. But that doesn't mean that there's a violation of state law and federal standards. Well, let me finish. Let me finish. You continue. That part. Sure. That's number one. Number two. This is about having read it and acknowledging. And to this extent, there's a part that they cannot implement that they understand that by the fact they read it. That's number one. Number two. I just got back from France. And it's supposed to be a vacation. I thought let me finish. I'll finish that. Alfred, zip it. I don't need to talk that way, John. Well, you know, I'm sick of you interrupting me. Okay. Guys, guys. Let me finish. Well, let me finish. Both of you. Let me finish. Alfred, John. I am the floor. John, when you're done, say I'm finished so that everybody knows. I said I went to France. And I will not bring the photos up. We can do a slideshow of how wide the roads are there, like everywhere. And they're 70 kilometer per hour, 50 mile per hour, per hour routes. They're probably wider than 12, but I'd say they're 14. Every road. And you know what? You know what people do? They slow down when they're passing. If it's too narrow, they get off and they allow the bigger vehicle to go by. That's how it works. I don't see people here being, having DNA is so different that they're going to want to head on each other. You know, a cataclysm. But I mean, at the end of the day, your job is commission. If this has been going on since 2014 and you've had concerns since 2014, individual concerns, sentence by sentence, you haven't read these, Alfred. And you have yet to identify them paragraph by paragraph. This is a problem. Standard A14 is a problem for this reason. Here's the Ash Tau standard. This is where there's a conflict. It's page 14. This is another standard we cannot follow. I know the state approved it. Maybe they missed it. This is why there's a conflict. And you show me the state regulation or the federal regulation or both where it doesn't apply. Just broad brush is saying that we can't do it. It's impossible. It's generally illegal. It, I don't know where this legal opinion came from where the liability now goes from the town to employees or following a legal directive. We're not asking your guys to drink whiskey and drive down a road drunk. We're asking you to follow a legal directive. And the legal directive simply is to please have your guys read it and sign that they've read it and understand the language. And if they understand it and if they have a problem and by understanding it, they say, hey, I've got a problem with this paragraph. It requires the ditches to be this wide or too close or the road not wide enough. Write down that concern. Communicate it to you. Present it to us when you come and meet with us. And let's have a meeting and to discuss the standards so that we can amend them to improve them. So how can we improve them? So John, so let's, let's, we could, I think we could debate this for two hours. I'm guessing Elizabeth, can you hang on until we have a chance for the whole board to have this chance to speak? And then I will give you a chance to make your comment. Thank you very much. And I'm going to skip my, my, what I said was I'm going to speak and I'm going to, so just so everybody knows, I'm going to be aiming to wrap us up because we're not going to get to the bottom of this tonight. So Denise, I'm going to let you speak, then Rick, then Alfred, then I'll go to Elizabeth's comment, then I'll close us. My comment is as we've asked road crew members in the past, if they have received the standards and they have said no, that's why we're requesting something in writing from them, acknowledging that they've received them because we've been told. And read them. And read them because we've been told by other road crew members, some who are no longer here with us as a road crew member, that they never received them. So this is what this is for. Okay, thank you Denise. Well, I will pass that on to them, but it's not conveying to you what they told me. They're not signing it. They don't agree with it. And they don't agree with it. And you're, as Matt, you're going to communicate to them that that's insubordination and it can be grounds for immediate dismissal. Just as much as you need to communicate that. Protect them from themselves, Alfred. Rick. Okay. Rick's turn. Yeah, I agree. I think we need to, those acknowledge getting a win. I think document the concern side that goes with those signatures, just like we put a contingency on, you know, on a permit. And you put those, write those down. There's some very good, the concerns I have with pieces of it. But I think this is the way to have that discussion is to get the concerns out there. I think, you know, maybe there are a certain roads that can have that minimum where we know we don't have cut indictments where we can't get out. I've got a very artist with some of those. I mean, you might be able to do it in France, but I, after spending winners here, and I know equipment fairly well on roads, I would be changing my underwear after some of the, if I encountered an oil truck or something like that on that road, there wouldn't be anywhere to go. That's the reality. This isn't France. So, you know, in the idea, we don't want to spread these roads. So if we're, we're going to have to plow what is called a verge, the verge in those plant, if we do that. And so that's going to heat differently than the road does. It doesn't have some base under it, you know, it's a different material. So it's going to, you know, they're not going to be leveled like they are in the summer. They change, you know, we can't count on that. And we're still impacting the soil. So when we have problems there, there are places we couldn't do that because of, you know, I'm trying to think of a, you know, there are plenty of roads where I think there are issues. I think we do, we have an obligation to identify those roads that where that might be possible, you know, to try that. And I think we would have to work with you on that specifically, too, because you need the road for the ones who really know the geology of those roads. If you would put that on, we would want your advice on that and where we can experiment. We work backwards. And I understand it, but it starts completely. And I know the state was holding their nose when they approved this. Yes, they did. I mean, they were definitely good. But they did. They did. And I, yeah, that's a different thing than I prefer to do. They're not officials. Okay, I'm just... And the state actually... I don't think this is... Yeah, it's not for nothing. No, I think I'm not trying to go there. What I want to make sure of is that they, you know, we need to get this read and find the knowledge that it's done. Because there's good, there are many good things in there. Let's write down the concerns, get them documented, get them working with us. And if it's appropriate, we work on adjusting those. Or we don't. And we go forward. We make that decision. But it isn't on you. It's on us. That, I think, is an important point. That we own both the liability and the standards. Hang on, hang on. I promised Elizabeth a chance to ask a question, Elizabeth. How many people on a road crew are independent contractors? On the road, well, road crew itself, the full-time road crew is all full-time employees. And we have how many part-time people that they're not contractors per se. They're part, they're part, they're temporary, temporary employees. Big difference, they're temporary. Not a contractor. Is that a difference that makes sense? Right. I think in the way that you're, yeah, in the way that you're using the term contractor, somebody who is an independent company, even if it's a small person with their own independent insurance or whatever. I don't think we have anybody of that nature. No. No, nobody. We're all employees. They're all employees. Some are full-time. Some are temporary. But nobody of that independent nature. Thank you for the question. So I'm going to call this a success because this has been a topic we've been talking about. We've talked about the road standards. We hear from people that the road crew isn't following the road standards. And we, of course, felt like, well, that doesn't sound right. Of course they are. They're the select board standards. They've been in place for years. So the fact that we have bubbled up that there really is an issue, and I mean, I do want you to take back the select board's position on it. But I think it's a formal request that we're making that you, I think we, are we reiterating our requests that the crew acknowledged that they have read and understand? And we are also guys that I'm looking for some at least nodding of heads. And we're also inviting specific feedback on the areas that they would like to discuss with us. Is that a fair? The item on the agenda is confirm receipt of standards. No, confirm training occurred and received signed forms from road crew relating. Excuse me, the training, comma, receipt of standards and full understanding of the CAL standards. And we are not, we are not getting that tonight. But you also, you were the one who also said if there's- That we will be receiving them. If there's issues, then put it in writing and bring it forward. Specifically. Specifically. I'm not saying we just, we don't necessarily what, what, right. Right. We can't- We can't remember. So, can I have a turn here again without interrupting, being interrupted? Yeah. Yes, you may. There is, there is so much more to this issue than just signing a document that the select board has approved. This town is pulling in a lot of grant money from better back roads, from the state of Vermont and the school roads. Right. And the municipal roads. All this money that's coming in, in grants. Each one of those grants has a standard you have to follow. You have to have ditches. You have to have a crown road. You have to have a certain footage of gravel. That standard that you guys approve does not meet that standard. So, are you guys going to be willing to stand up to these taxpayers and say, we got to give that money back because we're not following the standard. What, what- So, I know the standard is well enough to know that they require that you crown the roads. Sure. That's what they do. You just challenge that. I'm challenging the- We don't, we don't say- I'm challenging the gravel. We don't say you don't put gravel on the roads. There's no, there's no limitation on gravel. I'm asking you, Alfred. Right. Is it something you want? Well, I'm asking you- Stop, stop, we're done. We've said everything productive we can say and so much more. So, we're done for now on- It's not a good standard. It needs to be revisited. Alfred, we're done on this topic. Thank you. Thank you too. Peter. Welcome, Peter. Peter, come on and join us. No, but I don't think we're done, Madam Chair. I would like Alfred to come back and identify the specific areas of the standard- That's what I said a minute ago. And in writing each one that he has a problem with and provide corrective language. And that's what I said is the indication- If the gravel's not deep enough, I don't think we'd went into that detail. Then let us know what it needs to be. Okay, so I said, I did- Do we want to put in a deadline? That's what I'm going to ask you. Alfred, would you- So we meet again on the 26th. I'm glad- Imagine that's fairly aggressive to come up with what we're asking you for. We meet on October 10th and October 24th and twice in November regular meetings. Tell me first or second meeting which month that you want to come back and talk to us about specific issues with the road standards. Specifically with lots of detail. With our language? With the very specific issues. I know lawyer, but I can- No, I don't- The language. Yeah. Follow the state standard. I know what those words are. I'll bring those words to you. I would- I'm actually going to suggest- We have a lot on the agenda already for the next meeting. And this has been out there for eight years. I'm going to suggest that we actually bump it into October. Notwithstanding, thank you for being willing because I want to make sure that Rick has a chance to sit with you on it. And because offline, I bet you guys can work through a few. And Rick can say, yeah, you know, I see your point, but here's this. And you can probably find some consensus rather than doing that all here. So I'm going to say the 10th. That's okay with you. And I can probably find a word version that can be used to go in and make suggested language changes or why this doesn't work because this is what the AASHTO or whatever so that we have, as John said, give us something in writing. Yeah, go through it and make comments. How long do we want? Let me just say one more thing. This should have been done before it was approved or re-approved. You're on a committee, Rick. No, it was not on a committee. I was John, I was never invited to any of those meetings back then when they were doing that. Never. Yeah. No one was. I thought you were our appointed representative. I remember voting. I was never made aware of those meetings. I was never invited to those meetings. I was never shunned out, same as I felt for a long time. So I know we appointed you as our lead example. I thought you were saying it was not there. Yeah. It was my idea. So I'm not. Your committee never invited me. So that's okay. So that was in 2014. We're moving forward. We're moving ahead. If we haven't done some of the things that you think we should have done with naming the roads, let's put that in the document that, which naming the roads, that's on us to come and help figure out. But we can't keep going backwards. We need to go forward. So I'm going to, I've noted this as a 45 minute item. So that will, that's a lot of time. It's not two hours. So I'm going to again, Rick, I'm just going to look at you and ask if you guys can put your heads together to be sure that we're ready for, you know, to cover as much as we can on the evening of the 10th or in a 45 minute, in a 45 minute discussion item. And if you guys can get it to us at least a day in advance, so we can read it. That would be great. Peter, I'm going to extend a re-invitation for you to join us up here. Feel free to come up and just sit next to, to Alfred and Marilyn. Nice to see you. Thank you. Thanks so much. Thanks for having us back. And so we have, we, I'm going to, we're running a little behind but, but I promised you 15 minutes and that's what, and that's what you guys are going to get. So we're here because Alfred and Peter were here, what, a couple months ago. And we worked out something around the four roads and your approach around, around invasives. And we asked you to come back and tell you, tell us about how it all worked out. Well, I mean, I thought this issue was not an honest answer to that. Well, no. No, we, no, we promised, we asked you, this is new. What I understood was, is that you wanted me to come back and tell you what I learned over the summer. No? No, it was specifically to hear about your, your experience and whether it worked from both points of view, what you negotiated around the maintenance of the four roads that you're focused on. That's, all I did was withdraw my request for permit. And correct. And the reason I did that was because I, well, two foot, first of all, I went and I listened to Alfred and then I watched the meeting afterwards that, after I left, said that you didn't know where I was coming from. And so I need to say that where I was coming from was that I was listening to you but not arguing with you. I, I saw your point, we backed in a lot of guard ways. And I saw your point about wanting to see people have a real 10 foot deep line of sight down the road. And I'm not sure that the people in town are going to go along with that in some places. And I'm not sure you can even do it in some places. A lot of places, but in our four roads district and the roads have a lot more problems in the guardways because of the curves and we talked about that. So you're asking to change the conditions of the permit? No. I said that I would withdraw the permit. And you said you were going to work on doing, on making the, I'm cutting the road size back earlier. And that's something that can't be done immediately. I know that because there are a lot of trees not to mention ledges on Lisbon Road and even the east end of the Fowler Road. We talked about all the danger points that we noticed. But so I withdrew it because I, I feel like I'm bashing my head against the wall about doing anything but cutting the road size back 10 feet. And I can't do that alone. So I did. So that's why I withdrew the permit. I just, but essentially there's no way the conditions were permanent. There were no conditions on the permit. Just, well, yes. Yes. Yes. Because you and I, some of the conditions were that if somebody applied for a permit they had to maintain the road. Say this is a town loss. That's right. That's a condition to do. That's right. And he's saying he can't do that. It was. That's one person he can't do that. And, right. And also that maybe others, other property owners can't either. So that's a change of the, of the, the conditions of permit. Well, you couldn't do it either. I think there are many places where there's only two feet back that you know. And I can see why there are many places where there are only two feet that you couldn't know. I, I, it sounds like can I actually, can you just hang on? I think I want to, I, my, my memory, and I don't have a printed copy of it here is that in the, in the discussions that we had in our, in our subgroup, we talked about having a private maintenance condition of x, x, x. But in the end, because we did not have consensus, the permit application was a, was a blank slate. And we just asked so, so Alfred, that's not a condition. It's asking the applicant, how are you going to maintain line of sight without saying, there was absolutely no condition. It was a blank slate, kind of prompting, is that your recollection Peter, kind of prompting you to say, I think to prompt the applicant to be thinking about these things without laying out a condition. In the early draft, we had the conditions, but we took that out in the final one that Peter, Peter completed. My, my memory is just a little bit different. It was that Alfred and I were to come to an agreement, bringing to you. That was after you filled out the, the application. That was as, when you sent us off before we left. That's right. That's right. And wrote the, wrote the documents. That's right. And wrote. That's right. But we didn't, so I didn't, you know, I just, so I didn't fight for it. You know, maybe blame me for that. I just listened to you and I tried to understand where you were coming from. So, yeah. We didn't talk about my side because I didn't have that set. Maybe that's my fault that I should have been more proactive in it. And I kind of, as I listened to what went out of the meeting after I left this last meeting was, I felt like maybe I should have instigated a more of a, trying to look for a compromise or something. Can I understand what we're doing here today? What are you asking them to work for today? So let me, let me, I can answer that question. So we, do you want to answer the question, Denise? We're not, Peter's not here to ask for anything. You guys were here in July. You said you'd worked something out as a compromise. And we very much said that's awesome. Go forth, come back and tell us in a couple months how it went. And what I'm hearing, what I expected we would be hearing is, is, you know, Peter, you might say, well, I did some gathering. Maybe you didn't pull any invasives this year. You didn't do that at all? I'm sorry. Did you pull the invasives? Did you do that? Oh, no, I pulled hundreds of them. You did. Okay. Things were earlier in the spring and then a few later months. Okay. You just didn't ask us to forego the mowing. Denise, you've been wanting to say something. I'm going to let you go ahead. It sounds to me like this issue is, is resolved at least, maybe not exactly the way you wanted it, but I don't hear you asking us to do anything now. I don't know if you're going to come back next spring with, you know, a new request, but I just want to understand that is this matter settled for right now? And you don't necessarily like it, but you're okay with it? I thought that we settled when we had our last meeting. Last meeting. A few months ago. Okay. And I withdrew the application and that kind of made things awkward. That's where I was. That's why I was, that's why I tried to call you today because I was like, I thought we'd finish this and I thought this was all settled. We've been, we've been very young and I think we're done. Maybe, you know, to use what Denise just said, it's done for this summer. And I didn't, you know, come back and try to do anything any different than how I said I was going to do it, which was initially, many hundreds. I brought over a whole trailer of wild gerbil to you and I was asked to, I called you up and asked you where I could put it because you had offered that years to happen to us and you were three or four years ago anyway. And it was too big a pile to, there were too many plants and one concentrated area to try to just be on the road. I would be happy to tell you where maybe you were two-minute history or a three-minute history of what I, where I'd come from and gone. Can we share that with the rest of you? Yeah, actually. This is the application. Yeah, but John, did you look at it? Do you want to say? No, I just, you had questions about it. Yeah, I mean, just from, I don't want to be. I wanted to reference it. Yeah, I don't want to be rude. I think we're all on the same page around what the application didn't, didn't do. It didn't, it didn't lay out a condition. I think maybe what's important is Peter, I want to ask you one question. Did you feel that you were able, with all the polling that you still did in 2022, that you were able to continue your work to test methods of, did you feel, did you feel like that? I didn't answer that, but also Rod and I did. No, it was more difficult this year and I don't really know why. But I started off on this, six, I didn't bring my glasses so I can't read. So I started off on this when a year before Denise put on the front porch form, at least not earlier, was having a meeting about viral charitable and other invasions. Maybe it was two years before then. That I started off in seven. But anyway, I think it was 15. And I had the same expectation that I found the most people to have and that is I could get rid of it. I could learn how to get rid of it. And so that's very much what I was operating on until this past summer, it's spring and summer. And so this past spring, I went back down to Randolph and talked to farmers again now. And their whole attitude changed. They said, we can't get rid of that. We learned to live with it. We had, and the people that live in the village of Randolph Center said they're still upset about it because their lawns are completely surrounded by roadsides and completely filled with wild gerbil. But the farmers said, well, we concentrate on our fields and we don't worry about what's on the other side of the fence. And so I started talking to more people about it that way. And I've come to the conclusion, at least for right now, is that once we've got it, we can't get rid of it. So the most proactive thing we can do, the only real defense we've got is to not spread it in the first place. Once you've got it, and once the farmers and the lawn people, I talked to a guy who, most lawns were living, and he said, yeah, you mow your lawn every single week if the farmers close cut their hay for haylage three or four times a summer, then they can keep it down to the minimum. It's still spreading, but it's not dominant. And so now my attitude is, my next direction is, well, when we did this study, which Denise has just put on, and so thank you to all of us on now, the idea was is that we tell people in town and involve people in town on how to deal with this. And that's the part that hasn't been done. Yes, John, you went out and you found a used tractor and you tried to make it feasible to buy. You didn't want to spend that $130,000. But we have the time. And this happened just before the pandemic. This happened six months or eight months before the pandemic, the report came out in a minute, two years study before that. But I went door to door for the last three or four years or four or five years and people had no idea what Wild Turtle was. And then this summer, that's gone beyond that because I hadn't really paid attention to a poisoned tar snow. I know that you had been paying attention to half a dozen or seven years ago or something because you talked to me about it then. It was before you were on the sled morning. And you still got it. But not as fast as we did. So I just want to make a suggestion. Maybe you get somebody like Joanne or somebody that knows about this stuff and hold an educational opportunity. It doesn't have to be something that we do. I've talked to Joanne and Joanne is now doing trees. Right, she's doing animal dashboards. Yep, and so she directed me to a couple of other women. Right, just have an educational forum. Rent the town hall. Yeah, so my plan for this coming year is to go from this coming winter right now is to again touch with as many people as I can that are already doing programs on this. These two women whose name I can't read. Our best their job is to work with invasions. I don't know anything about the other invasions. We've got 10 invasions that they listed in here and I only know about two of them. I couldn't even recognize the other eight. So I don't know about them but I know that for me to get beyond the two that are related that are in the same family is just too much for me. But the other part of it is that I also I really felt put up on when you said that I had to go to all my neighbors and talk to them. Oh, about the roadside mall. Yeah, but it was the best thing to happen because they didn't know what it was. So you got to educate them? So we got to and I got it better. I know my neighbors. It was like when I had a paper room when I was in 7th and 8th grade. I knew everybody in the neighborhood. Right, there you go. But I made the mistake of saying I initially started out saying people need to read their own wild gerbil. And I couldn't keep track of what people were doing. So I had no idea if it was getting better or worse or whatever. And so I said to them, no, I need to do this by myself. Well, this spring I went back holding wild gerbil plants and knocked on the door and they said, what's that? So it has to be an educational thing. Just like got, you know, adjusted to here. It has to be a mapping thing. You talked about using Joanne's map. Well, I talked to Joanne for an hour on the phone a couple of weeks ago and she said, you know, they only looked at half the roads in town. And here it said that the map has to be updated now on a yearly basis. And the only way you can do that really is with the people who live on those roads. But you have to walk on the side of the road. You can't drive down the road in the car or a truck and see much, except some flowers. But you can see a lot more if you walk. So I think we've got a long ways to go. But the with the goal that we aren't going to get rid of what's already there, John, you and me are stoppers. And we have to learn a little bit. And I've just been mowing it, like you suggested. I recall that. There are roads in town that don't have it. And we need to find all those. And then those are the ones that are supposed to be mowed first and early and probably mowed twice. And then the roads that have got it can be mowed as they come to flower. I'm actually going to thank you very much for coming, Peter. And I'm going to move us along because we have a couple other things we want to get done. Well, I've said what I wanted to say. Thank you very much. Thank you for your work on it. It's a really important topic. Not just work. You've really been a leader on this in our town. I appreciate that. Question for Peter. What I remember from our last conversation where you and Alfred came and met with us, you said that you reached in accord with Alfred in that they were going to wash the mower. Or they mowed the areas that he was maintaining. Is that no longer an issue? Or is it? Oh, I think it's a real issue. Is that still what I want to see in place? I didn't hear anything about that. I was at the meeting that Alfred and Toby were at four years ago, in the summer of 1719. Summer of 19, when this was presented to the town. So was Denise. Well, Alfred and Toby said, no, you can't do that. That's too much to do. What is? Washing the machinery on a site. You know, the things that they talked about in the area. And Toby said, and I looked back at my notes. Just, just, I couldn't hear like that. And I took notes at that meeting. And I was just there as a, you know, just watching it. I wasn't part of it. And Toby said, I was pretty sure it was Toby. He said, well, we trucked dirty everywhere in town. So the washing machine didn't make that big a difference. And then when I was talking to her, I was talking with, well, what they were saying was, is that they tried to do, because I just wasn't playing field. Marshall, I went to the presentation of Marshall a couple of weeks before the one here. And that's all I found out about this thing. I didn't even know about it. And she suggested that the town had a dump site for dirt. And the road crew didn't want anything to do with that. It was, so, and then I talked to Toby this spring. And I said, there's this triangle right in his intersection. But he's not going to hate the dump that he was doing five years ago. And he was chucked all around Germany. He has much less in it now. And I went to him and I said, what happened? Bermont's hanging, right? Bermont's hanging. Okay, got it. This is fascinating. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, Peter. Thank you, Peter. Good job of making this all aware of this, I appreciate it. And yes, Peter, thanks a lot for the beginning. Thanks a lot for it. Thank you for joining us. We talked about rescheduling the Town High 7 hearing. Okay, so the console position. This is not, this is not even, maybe even put discussion on it. I just wanted to say a couple of things because it needs to go on a future item. We do not have a console now. And the conversation we all, the board needs to have, and I'm just teaming this up for everybody, is in the context of bringing in, onboarding our last appointed console, we learned a lot about the options around what type of console and what kind of function we want our console to take on. We have some choices. I think I at least will say, I went into that with not a full understanding that we actually had choices and we learned that. And so the conversation we have to have is that, what kind, now that we know, what kind of console do we want to have in our Town so that we can move forward and make that happen. And we need to consult the insurance, pass it. All of the things. This is not, we are not going to discuss this tonight, Peter. As your representative of the State Police Advisory Board, as far as I know, they fall apart. They, what has fallen apart? The State Police Advisory Board, hasn't that been over a year? Hasn't that since the beginning? Okay, so unrelated console, a little bit good to know. Well, it may be really, I don't know. Well, so I wanted to just put this, I wanted to put this point in the minds of the board that we need to, that, We need to get working on this. I think we have it on our, yeah, next meeting. This is something, conversation I do think we need to have next meeting if we can, yeah, we've said the other one goes on the 10th. And that's the topic is what kind of console we want to have. So please review your notes and meeting minutes from a few months ago and we're dealing with that. I just want to go, okay. The different levels. The different, the different levels. Peter, thank you very much. So the roof pavement and the biking signs and we're not acting on that. We're not acting, I put that on the 26th and Rick's going to have more formal proposals. So let's just do a quick round robin in case there's something that people haven't had a chance to bring up. Rick, anything that you wanted to put on our radar? Denise? I think we know it all. What's on the radar? John, anything, okay. No, in the future though, I did photo document what France is doing to control speed. And I'm going to put something together for this one. I want to check in with Feetran, see what is allowable in Vermont and what is not allowable and what is grant, if allowable what might be grant eligible. So that is, so this is a perfect segue to one of our, let's just quick run down what's on the agenda for next time or on the potential agenda because we always have to juggle. But we have a couple of curb cut applications, Alfred, so make sure that you have the Jason Carmichael and the CKC Holdings curb cuts to take a look at because we'll be talking about those. Yeah, we'll be ready for the town hall usage on the. Okay, Marcus point person on the town hall usage apology, we want to get an update on Moscow woods closure. And in fact, there was a request that you guys posted a more current update, maybe on front porch form. So this open is done. It's done. Okay, maybe put that on front porch form. Can you let the town office staff know because they have been getting a lot of phone calls. Yeah. The people wanting to know if the road is open. I've told everybody I've talked a little bit about this week, last week, it's not. Well, they still are getting phone calls. Could you just call the office tomorrow leave a message or something if they're not there when you're there and just let them know that the road is done and open. Thank you. So we want to talk about to the point you just made, John, use of ARPA funds for traffic calming road study, road design study. That's on the agenda for next time. I'll check in with Neil. We still haven't done the Shaitree hearing. Yeah. I don't know what's happening with that. Um, hmm. I don't know what's happening with that. Nothing. It's but but why why have we not heard from you? Right. It's like why do we know what's going on? And then you guys can look at the some of the, yeah, there's a number of other handful of items. Okay. Is there motion to adjourn? Is there a motion to adjourn? You finished everything for executive session. Is there a motion to adjourn? So moved. Second. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Before we start at six, don't forget, we've been here. Yeah, we've been here a while. Yep.