 Hi, this is Brian Grace of Wikibon. We're here on theCUBE at DevOps Enterprise Summit here in San Francisco, and we're excited to have one of our CUBE alumni, Adrian Cockroft, venture capitals with battery ventures. How are you? Fine, thank you, thanks for having me. So, you and I were talking, I don't know, maybe six, nine months ago, and you said, the most interesting conference you'd gone to last year was DevOps Enterprise Summit. Any reason that's not at the top of your list or near the top, anything you saw this week that sort of distracts that? No, I think it's continuing. The point about this conference is it's the real end user stories. It's what the actual trouble they're going through. It's not vendor stories. It's not something that you made up that you think you can take to market. It's the actual stories. So, we're hearing about Capital One, what they're really doing, Target, how that's going. I told a lot of people over the last year to go watch Mark Schwartz's Department of Homeland Security Talk and the Target and the Nordstrom Talks. And just, you know, there's a huge amount of value there. Everyone says, okay, I want to do cloud or DevOps or microservices or something. How do I do that? Well, here's real examples of people as they've gone through that process. And that was very, very powerful last year. I'm seeing it continue this year. It's moving on a bit. There's more people with more successes, and it's a bigger conference, I think, but it's still, you know, everything's moving in the same direction. Yeah, it's been an interesting couple of weeks. I mean, we had, you know, you were at the AWS re-invent show. They're continuing to grow like crazy. We're seeing more enterprise customers there. We had the whole Dell EMC merger thing, which is, you know, signals something about what's going on with legacy. And now we're, you know, we're at this event, it's only, you know, a thousand people, but double last year, and we're seeing, you know, those things that you've been talking about with the Netflix culture, the Netflix way of doing things. What's your overall take? I mean, is it, are we just really seeing this huge inflection point kind of for everybody? I mean, you've been seeing it for a long time. I think ideas, I mean, when you come up with ideas, they're strange, and people push back, and it sounds crazy, and a lot of the time when I did the, like in 2010, when I first started talking about what Netflix was doing, there was a lot of, you guys are crazy kind of responses, and your unicorns, and no one ever want to do this. And over time, things just become the new normal, right? So things get sediment, the good ideas get traction. So I was at a, in Wall Street, sorry, the Wall Street comes and visits Silicon Valley regularly. So we had JPMorgan Chase doing an event last week in, along Silicon Valley, you know, for VCs and startups, really. They have a little summit. And they were talking about how they're running Chaos Monkeys, and they're kind of cloud native, and they're gonna start using AWS, and all the things that you thought that would be a crazy thing for a bank to be saying a few years ago were all popping up on their slide deck. So I think for me that's, it just shows how these things have become practice, and people have figured out why they're important. They speed things up, they make more agile, they save you money, whatever reasons people have. But there's a big transformation going on, and it's being driven a lot by kind of an existential threat, where they think if the Wall Street banks don't do something, the Bay Area, or if it's Silicon Valley startups, we'll go and do something and take them out, right? Well, and we're seeing people say, hey, they're gonna start hacking finance, and that whole industry might get disrupted. We're seeing Square and some others, but there's lots of fintech behind that. You know, we're watching the keynote this morning, or one of the keynotes, Capital One got up on stage. Capital One is one of a number of companies we've seen this summer who are really using their platform to go talk about recruiting and talk about open sourcing stuff, and one of the things they sort of talked about was they just did a big internal, basically a big internal event, similar to this, and there weren't any vendors there. It was all just the services they do, their open sourcing, their own technology. As a venture capitalist, you've gotta think about people that are gonna go build technology that maybe wanna sell to them. How do you rethink that when you're hearing this over and over, you know, Target, Nordstrom, Capital One? Well, what I do, I mean, I work for a VC firm, but I have a slightly different role and much more outbound. And one of the things I do is I go talk to companies. So I met with Capital One last year, and then I went to one of their, that wasn't that big meeting, but they had a smaller meeting, I visited their labs, so I spent some time with them earlier this year and got to know them and their team. And you have discussion here, what is your stack look? I mean, what does your mobile technology stack look like? Which vendors are you using? Which products are you using? And we use that to validate our investments, right? So if we have somebody comes and wants to, you know, we're looking at investment in a company, well, either go talk to Capital One, then would this be interesting? Or maybe they say, you know, the company says, well, we're talking to Capital One already, so you can go check, you know, do the background check. So I'm building a relationship with a lot of large end users, basically so we can do that kind of due diligence, but also so that can understand what is the stack and what are the gaps in the stack and where is this all going, right? I mean, we saw a huge number of people at AWS re-invent, you know, vendors. Lots of the ecosystem was there. Do you see that continuing to grow in terms of not only just around AWS, but being able to offer services that are going to go back into the enterprise if they're keeping their data center? Yeah, there's a lot of, I mean, what we really saw a few weeks ago at AWS was it just matured another step up. About a year ago, people were talking about, we're moving a few applications to AWS, and now they're talking about how many data centers they're going to close. And out of those data centers, you're going to be having a few things will move to a different data center. There's a few things that get turned into SaaS applications and whatever's left, they put up on AWS. And you saw Accenture coming out with a big deal where Accenture probably runs your data center today, so you switched to Accenture running your cloud migration and doing that. So I think they're just setting up with all of the, that's the demand AWS is seeing. And I think people are realizing it's pretty hard to come up with something that you build yourself that can compete now with a public cloud vendor. Used to be, well, I have this specialized hardware need. Well, so next year, they've got an instance with over a hundred cores and two terabytes of RAM coming on AWS. I was like, okay, maybe I don't need to build a, I need to do it just to build a bigger machine, right? Yeah, I was watching your talk this week. It was kind of weaved in system thinking as well as some of the Netflix stuff. I went back and did a little bit of looking, Netflix is up 4x stock price-wise over the last four or five years, which is kind of the space you've been talking about it. 62 million customers, which means they're doing 62 million. 69 million. 70 million credit card transactions a month. I mean, it's hard to, I wonder like, are people gonna keep dismissing the Netflix thing and say, well, it's not the enterprise or are we gonna start saying, well, let's just replace the Netflix story with what Capital One's doing. I mean, is that, do you think that helps this movement? It certainly helps that there are more stories and there are more varied stories. You can look on, a lot of people now talk about internet of things. And if you think about Netflix, it's really an internet of things company where the things are TV sets, right? And there's a lot of traffic back and forth and they're managing this huge collection of things in people's houses. So it is actually in some senses, the software that we built is the right pattern for all of these IoT mobile customer engagement. People are talking more about systems of engagement with their customers and that's what the Netflix architecture and what we're talking about is. So that applies to wherever you see a systems of engagement type of problem, right? Sort of last question, I know when we were at Reinvent, a lot of talk about IoT, they had a platform, but we were seeing customers, especially in the manufacturing industry, whether they were fleets of trucks or tractors or robots on the plant floor, do you think we're gonna start to see that more and more become the next part of this mainstream thing? How far along do you feel like that is in the industry or hype cycle versus reality? I think the key thing here is that instead of building a tractor or a car and delivering it and then a few years later, you deliver another one, we're getting to continuous feedback. So you can describe a Tesla as a laptop on wheels, it's with web services, right? So I think the interesting point there if you look at the autopilot things that Tesla recently rolled out, it's different to what other manufacturers have rolled out because the cars are feeding back to Tesla all the time and they're learning and getting better. And when you build a SaaS based backend, which is what they really are, with all of your end users feeding data into it, you just get better and better. This is why Netflix has better recommendations because it's got 60, 70 million customers that they're aggregating everything for. So anytime you can take a standalone on-premise service and turn it into a SaaS service, it turns into a better product and we're seeing a lot of transitions in that space and it applies to IoT, it applies to consumer and business and everything really. Yeah, I think I'd seen a quote from you at one point and you said Netflix is a $10 million monitoring service that just happens to send out movies or something like that. You know, this whole- I didn't say dollars, but yeah, it's- But in essence, it was the feedback you can now get around products is so real time. It's so rapid. You should be collecting everything. Well, yeah, that's just internally at Netflix. Their monitoring system consumes most of the budget. Actually, ridiculously large percentage of the budget, in fact, but you know, and you've seen Roy Rappaport talk about that as well. But yeah, that's part of just knowing what's going on and building a reliable system. It ends up, the monitoring system is as important or more important than the thing itself, right? Look at how much circuitry there isn't a nuclear reactor to control the reactor versus all the stuff that's sitting there to actually make bits of reactor move around. All the safety systems and control systems and monitoring systems are probably bigger and more complicated. So you want to, if you're trying to make something work reliably, when you're changing it continuously, you've got to just be able to see exactly what's happening inside it all the time. Well, with that, thank you very much again for always being on. I'm going to wrap that up. Folks, we're here at DevOps Enterprise Summit here in San Francisco. Watch all the videos on siliconangle.tv. Thanks for watching. Thank you.