 All to order. The September 12. Meeting of the popular planning commission. First, we have to approve the agenda. So when folks are ready, we'll take a motion for that. So moved. Motion to approve the agenda. Motion to approve from John in a second from Ariane. Those in favor of approving the agenda say aye. Aye. Aye. Okay. And approved. And moving on to comments from the chair. I have a few. Quick things. Some of which we're going to get into a bit later. First thing I think is most important right now is we, we're going to have two open seats with Jeff leaving. So. We're going to try to recruit people that we want to work with. So we have some control. And as I think, as we know, like things go pretty smoothly for. If we have good chemistry. So, so try to recruit folks who are going to work with. And since there's two seats and we've had a trouble filling Stephanie seat. I think the recruitment could be really important. You know, we're, we're best finish up the city plan. And I think that's what we're going to be doing the next month or two. And then start transitioning over to the digital side of it. I do plan to draft that outreach related to the solar shading soon. It's been a few months, couple months since. The bridge published our last outreach thing. So, so I do anticipate working on that soon. And speaking of the bridge. I don't know if folks know this, but over the summer, they accidentally re ran a commentary from last spring. Which was. The member of the public who wrote a commentary kind of attacking what we were doing back then in our zoning suggestions. So, I don't, I mean, I don't know, it was kind of news. It was brought to my attention from, from people from the public. But so we got kind of bad press that was just an accident. Over the summer. So, so that's fun. But it wasn't accident. And I don't know if you know anything more about it, Mike, but I just thought I'd let everybody know that it happened. No such thing as bad press, right? Except for maybe some of it. Yeah, I don't know. We're notorious, I guess. So, and the ironic thing was when I reached out to the bridge, they, they had wanted me to include something in the commentary like praising the bridge on, on publishing like pro housing articles. But the only thing that I was aware of that they published is the commentary that bashes the planning commission's efforts to make pro housing. So I was like, I don't actually. I don't think I want to bring that up, but maybe, maybe that will change in the future bridge. Okay, that's, that's it from the comments. Does anybody have any news or announcements? Okay. We're going to move on then. And next is general business. I'm not seeing anyone from the public. So we'll cruise through that. And then Mike will give us the official reminder about appointments for, for some members. Spoilers being gay. Yeah, that's pretty much it. It's Kirby and Gabe are the two that are getting, well, there are four seats, but Marcella and Jeff were the other two that would be getting on the board. So we're going to move on. So we're going to have Marcella's obviously gone and Jeff has opted not to get reappointed. So we'll have at least those two vacant seats. So we'll try to go and see. I have one person who has contacted me who has planning experience. I think would be a good addition. Who has expressed some interest in being on the board. So I think that would be a good addition. Other than that, we'll still have an extra seat open. Yeah, great. Everybody reach out to. Folks in your circles. Next thing on the agenda. Is update on the city plan contract with SE group. Before Mike. All right. I mean, I could probably do a quick update for six and eight. Because they're both really about upcoming meetings. So I have met with SE group. We've got a contract written. We are, they've started work on, on pieces. So they're starting to put together the template. Basically what we had agreed on to start was to put together some. Template pages for the. Basically the arc hub. The way that is structured. It's going to, it comes out in pages. So they're going to start putting together some of those pages. Just as a template. So we can approve that go through. You know, I told them, we've typically kind of started with the historic resources, because it's a pretty straightforward one. They liked our chapters as we kind of put them together. You know, I know we kind of broke them into pieces and knew they were going to eventually kind of have to get mishmashed together, but they thought. When they reviewed what we have on the drive, they were pretty happy with what was there. There's going to be a lot of small pieces. So. I do have a, an intern again for this fall. So I'm hopeful that this is going to be another, another good experience where I can get somebody to kind of work on things, but we also may, depending on who has some time. If anyone has time and it's interested, they're going to probably looking for little things here and there, maybe pictures, maybe those types of things, somebody to review it. So we're also going to, at some point, create a, I guess I'll call it like kind of an accessibility review. So it'll be part of the beta testing of the site is, is, you know, it may be a member of the planning commission that may, if there's somebody who's got some time, but what we want to be able to do is to start to get people who, whether it's to test it for, for ADA accessibility, making sure we've got the fonts and the read abilities and the colors and all those pieces all kind of work. So they, they're talking about having a group that would kind of take a look at things and test things out, make sure everything works. It's not really a content reviewer as much as it is kind of a site tester to make sure things work. And so I'll be working with them to kind of set up a small accessibility review to make sure that, you know, fonts are big enough that things scroll and work correctly. So that'll be another piece. So we've worked on a bunch of logistics with them. I do know they would like at some point to meet with you, John, we'll have to try to see if, you know, if we could set up some time because they, they are mostly what they're working on is the chapter pieces that we kind of work on last. And then we had seen some things from John last year, two years ago now on how we could potentially put together our implementation strategies, you know, in the table formats. So they're kind of interested in seeing a little bit of the ideas that you had to see how they might be able to mesh into our overall website. So sounds good. Yep. So I think that's about it. Like I said, I think it's a really good group. The SE has put together. So they're actually all over the country. They're all working remotely. So they, they had a couple of folks who were in town. So I got to meet with them for the kickoff meeting. And we've had two other meetings now virtually, but they're ones in Maine ones in Colorado. So it's been pretty positive at this point. The number eight upcoming meeting with HPC. So the historic preservation commission had been working on. The design review guide. And they had, they had gotten a certified local government. Contract grant to put together. Everybody remembers we did new design review rules. And one of them was, you know, one of the little things in there was like, you know, we'll have a new guideline design review guide. And so they've been working for the past two years on putting that together. And it's kind of an, again, an online system. I think this one is in one of the Adobe illustrator or something like that. It's a, but it's a pretty nice, they did a really nice job putting it together to kind of go through and kind of one of those, we want to see this, not this, we want to see this, not this type discussions. You know, when we talk about fenestration, what is fenestration when we talk about, you know, it kind of goes through and explains all the pieces of what we're trying to do and why it's important. But their guidelines, but they still kind of need to be, they don't need to be adopted, but they do need to be approved. So they want to come and show you that design guide. And they're, they, they wanted to meet October 24th at our meeting on the 24th. So SE group will be coming on the 11th. So a month from today, a month from yesterday. And HPC will be meeting on the 24th. So it'll be about six weeks. So if anyone has any questions on either one of those, I can kind of go into the, get into those. Mike, can you just give me my memory? Where are we with the timeline with SE at this point? It is just getting kicked off. So they, we just signed the contract with them. They are trying to get done, you know, relatively quick. We've got, I think until October of next year to, to expend all the money that is in the grant. Their schedule is to try to be done getting through most of the heavy lifting by the end of the winter. So they want to be starting to, you know, we, we need to handle the public outreach, but obviously we can't really do the outreach without having the documents ready. So it's going to be kind of a little bit of, we're going to be working with them as they go through. They're going to put together some, some drafts. We're going to go out to the public revised those drafts, but they want to have most of their heavy lifting done before the end of the winter. So we'll say March, April. Understanding that we're of course going to be going through a lot of public input. And how long that takes always depends on the public. If we're pretty close on what we've been writing up. And I don't think we've written anything that's outrageously controversial. So I don't think we're, you know, unless somebody really wants to come in and start picking little things. I don't expect a lot of pushback on most of what's in there. But obviously once we've got the big picture done, then we can kind of just wait and get through the public process as we review things. And then obviously there's going to be some changes of policy here and there's some word changing here and there. But hopefully that's all wrapped up by, you know, the end of October next year. So, you know, if we're warning public hearings this time next year for adoption of the city plan, I'd be really happy. And that's their plan. That's our plan. And in the short term, what do we have left to give them in advance of their heavy lifting and what is our timeline for us that we need to be thinking about? Yeah, the end of the, so the, really, we want to be as quickly as possible getting through to the end of things. Depending on how much, I mean, we can do a really quick review of the utilities and facilities that's, that's basically, that's been done for, I just haven't had a chance to review it with the people in DPW other than that, that part's done. Arts, we still need the written chapter, Kirby. So we've gotten the implementation strategy done, but we'll need a written, the written chunks done on that one. And then we've got community services, which we've got a lot of drafts, a lot of it is drafted. But I don't have the written chapter, but the implementation strategy and public safety is the only one that really hasn't had a lot of work done and land use, but land use. I've actually been talking with SE group and they've got some really interesting ideas for how we can work on that. And they think some of the tools that our hub has in it can really help us help you and I work together to put together the land use plan because we really think that's, that's one that's really kind of where we pull everything together. And as we talk about, you know, these maintain evolved transform, we can really kind of get into each, you know, they're like, we could zoom into each neighborhood and kind of do a really quick thing of how each neighborhood is doing. And that would give us a good, both detailed, you know, whether you're zoomed in or zoomed out, you can kind of get a pretty good sense of where each neighborhood is doing with respect to certain things. And we would just have to go through and say, we can't review it for every goal, but we could pick, you know, six or seven key indicators that we want to look at for each neighborhood. You know, our is this neighborhood within a 10 minute walk of a park. Does this neighborhood have complete streets? Does this neighborhood have, you know, whatever the, you know, the feature is that we want to go and call out as the most important features and then do a quick assessment of each in a land use and that'll help us drive the implementation strategy of it, you know, what needs to be changed and what needs to be the same. So that was just an idea that they had that I had that we wanted to do. And that was really the two that need the most work that haven't really been started. Public safety, which actually technically isn't a required chapter. I still would like to do it. And land use. The trick with public safety has been. I can get plenty of time with the fire chief. But the police chief, they are so understaffed. Right now that the police chief is, is doing. It's a pretty, they're pretty tight. I think they're down. They've got supposed to have the 17 officers. I think they got 12. So I think they're really down, which is. Very difficult for me to then go and sit down like, hey, let's have a conversation about the master plan and policing. So we'll see if, if and how that's going to that, that chapter will play out. But the other ones I'm pretty confident on, I've got a lot of that together. And as we said, we've got nine of them already done, eight of them already done. It's just down to the last handful. I think that's helpful. So the worst case scenario with public safety, Mike, is that maybe we just don't have that chapter since it's not statutory requirement. Yeah, that would be the, that would be the worst cases that we go through and, and just explain to the city council that. You know, and we could always. You know, I mean, a lot of senses. You know, we can, we can also just kind of bang out a really general one to kind of fill this fill the spot. My hope is that I would like to do the master plan in a very similar manner to what we do the zoning regulations. I think I've mentioned this in the past that I don't want to be doing the master plan once every eight years. I really would like take a piece of it. And you know, we would have a discussion now that our plan is done and theoretically now that our master plan is done. Next year we can go in and say, Hey, you know what? I think we should take more careful look at the, the public safety plan. And you know, that, that's a hot topic right now. Let's take a deeper dive into that, revise that plan and go through and do a city plan amendment to kind of update it. So that way, rather than trying to do 12 chapters all at once, which is a huge undertaking. I think that we would be able to just kind of start doing it systematically in the same way that we do a zoning update. Once or twice a year we'll do a city plan update. Well, it wouldn't be once or twice a year, but you know, maybe once a year we would have a chapter to that we would be able to update. So I think some of these ones that aren't fully developed. Could be some of the ones that we then pick up and say, all right, now that we've got this adopted, let's go back and take a more careful look at public safety. Okay. Thank you. That sounds good. Sounds good. Anybody have any more questions for Mike about the. City plan. In your future. Or the anything to do with the housing preservation. Committees design guide. All right. Well, we can move on to. The next discussion of the arts and culture strategies. Maybe. Could pull that up and as far as the chapter goes, Mike. I'm open to suggestions. If you. Have an idea of what. Process you want to take for that. I mean, I think the framework, you can see the framework and all the others, they all have the same headings. Things just a matter of, you know, we can, you and I can have a conversation about. How I usually go about. My approach. But usually the first one, the introduction is just about, you know, what is it and why it's important. It's really what I'm trying to get out of the introduction. I think we can, we can heavily plagiarize the arts and culture. So, you know, I think it might be a really good idea to have a master plan. And. It might go. Pretty easily. Yeah. But don't be shy about that. I would take from, I always take from other city plans. If they have good stuff. I think their chunks of the historic resources that I grabbed from the existing plan. So. If it, if you find something and it sounds good and it sounds like that's what we're. That's the expression that we want then. So I think it's really important to have a knowledge and background information in that plan. That's just, yeah. Yeah. It's how it relates. I think the next chapter is how it relates to other chapters. I think a lot of that is just taking an intuitive look of. You know, how does arts relate to economic development? Well, there think there's quite a bit of overlap that we could. You know, discuss for that. In transportation. You know, I think there's a little bit less, but at the same time. know, a lot of those ideas that they were talking about for and capital projects, integrating art into our capital projects, most capital projects that we have in the city are transportation related. So, you know, Barry cities, gargoyles for bike racks. If you've ever seen those or, you know, there's a different, you know, different things that you can do and build into your, your transportation thing. So I think there's a little bit less, but there are opportunities there, I think, to kind of discuss those where arts, you know, where does arts and housing, probably not much, you know, but there's they're going to be it's going to be easier and harder on depending on the chapter, you know, art and solar panels for energy, I don't know. Yeah, I mean, there's, I mean, yeah, we're about to jump into it, but some of these strategies do relate to putting art on the backs of pretty much every building. So that way, it's going on to housing in some places. Okay, I can share. Okay. If I recall, we voted this, we vote on this, right? So we did what and if you were to, if anyone looks back into the Google Drive itself, what you're going to see is the, the written part, you know, the written part that Kirby put together, and then I did a revised version of that all in all written up because we had made determinations, hey, let's go from three aspirations to two, let's combine these, let's change this, the wording of this one. So I had a bunch of notes, I went through, if you go to the aspirations, this is what is on my written, so I converted Kirby's to, to, you know, my written form, which helped to get the aspirations and goals. But then when I did the strategies in here, I did that's where I started to combine strategies that were in mine. So I already took Kirby's, which I converted to our format. And then I converted our format into the online piece, which required kind of combining strategies into pieces. So we ended up with five, three and three goals for the first strategy, two goals for the second. And I don't know if you guys want to go through and review them, see how close that is to what you guys were thinking. So the first one, yeah, go back in a sec, like it was just, um, yeah, walk us through it. Just, I mean, we've already voted this out. So and I'm not seeing any reason to scrutinize it. So just just walk us through, you know, decisions you made. Yeah, you had so you had three aspirations, which were discussed and getting them down to two. The first one's really talking about having public art integrated into our urban landscape. So that is really trying to target public art, that art that is going to appear, you know, in public spaces, publicly owned, as opposed to B, which is kind of looking at art that's going to appear in studios, galleries, theaters, other venues, and mostly break them into two because ultimately, the goals and policies to get public art, which is publicly owned is going to be have different strategies ultimately than the ways of helping to encourage and support studios, galleries and private art. It's private art that may end up public, but you know, that's that's the distinction I had with those we so originally had three went down to two. So the public art increased the amount of lasting public art in public spaces increased the number of temporary public art installations, festivals and dynamic performances and increased amount of public art and cultural, increased amount of public art and cultural destinations that are created by celebration, or by or celebrate persons of diverse backgrounds. And then the two goals for the venues was kind of maintaining improved the many independent studios, galleries, theaters and other venues currently in Montpelier and increase the opportunities for affordable art courses for residents through programs provided by the Community Service Center and other departments. So I pulled all these out based on what was, you know, what I felt was here and looking at the strategies looking at, you know, looking above and below, that's kind of, you know, if you've got strategies, then I figure we have to have a goal to support that. So, so I think that one used to have increased opportunities for art classes. So I just tied it to departments. Yeah, just right now I pulled up the the original ones. Looks like some stuff was consolidated, but looks good to me. Does anybody have any questions for Mike about the aspirations and goals? Mike, you had flagged potential ways to measure. That was just left over from a different from the template. Okay. So this is all done, but it's I haven't filled out priorities and costs and goals and everything yet. But this gets again to whether something's going to be new, whether it's continued and expanded. And again, these are not necessarily ones. I have 100% supported or encouraged, but these are ones that that you guys had. So, you know, I'll put in there if there are things that we think should change. That's that's fine too. Where there was is there anything with this chapter that you don't feel like you can support? There are a couple of ones I think that we just have to have more discussion on some of these ones like we had a lot of discussion prior about requiring a percentage of CIP to go towards public art. A number of these just, you know, I think there's some, you know, that's one of the policies, the public arts CIP policy. And that had been discussed before. And it can be, it can be tricky and challenging and it adds costs. So we already have, you know, sitting in the CIP budget meetings and sitting in the budget development meetings, when we're talking about going through and saying, all right, we have a, you know, a $600 or $700 or $800,000 budget for capital. And if we start, as we start peeling money away from that, we start losing projects. And again, it's a value statement. And I know public works already feel stretched, they already feel very thin, a lot of their stuff is, you know, paving and sewer lines and water lines and these types of things. And to start siphoning off 1% or 2% of that to go to the arts is basically decreasing one to 2% of their ability to do capital projects that really need to get done. And that was their, their pushback before when, when this, when the arts commission developed that plan that you reviewed, and those recommend, recommendations were in there, that was a big pushback that DPW said was just that's, that's really not viable. You know, we're not in a position where we can afford to be siphoning off even 20, 30, $40,000 off of our projects, to add an art component in as much as it may have a positive benefit. When you're this far behind, it was very difficult. And I think there are a couple other ones that I think, you know, overall from a priority standpoint, certainly, if you want to implement this, it's going to be important to do some of these things. But as I look across the plan, you know, to take money away from some of these other ones to fund, you know, we can put some money and we do put some money into public art. But to start to have public art programs or other things where we're trying to take staff time to, to do more art, I think it's going to be difficult to pursue. But again, these are priorities that are up to kind of city council in the public. And I'm pretty sure as this moves its way through, there'll probably be some pushback that I would expect from certain folks on the from the money side of things. We're willing to support arts and culture. But you know, and maybe, as I said, unfortunately, that makes me maybe the same reason why we don't have a lot of public art in Montpelier. And, you know, we have if we want to increase it, then we have to make it a priority. And we have a lot of priorities. So but a lot of this, as I said, from my standpoint is, if people want to have goals, then my, my approach to this plan has been then we have to have strategies that will accomplish those goals. If we're just going to have goals for the sake of having goals and not really try to accomplish them, then we're just wasting time. So we'll put the strategies in there. And if people go through and say, Well, I'm just not willing to pay or support that, then we can start, you know, as we go through the public process, start to back those out. But, you know, I'm not willing to go to the mat for some of these to try to keep them in. It's the public decides they're not priorities. There's some other places where I think it's very important that we prioritize like housing and energy and complete streets and things that I've heard year after year that are your issues that we need to address. Yeah, so to to remind everyone this this 1% CIP idea came from the it came from the Arts and Culture Master Plan. And that was an approved plan. So that is, you know, a document on the books and city. And we were just kind of piggybacking. I'm not particularly attached to it. But I also feel like when it comes to public works and whether they can afford, you know, something out of their budget for art, like, I feel like there's hardly any of us that have the right amount of depth to be able to like make those kind of calls. Like, for instance, I have no idea how they make decisions about when to improve sidewalks. And whether, you know, money spent on that should be a priority over more public art, you know, and prominent places. I just I don't know. We could I mean, it would just take speculation for us to even talk about that. Yeah, so a couple of them, he liked the artist in residence program. I don't know if that's an item. But like I said, that was that was in there. So we've continued some of those from from that standpoint. But I did so I did go through by combining them, you know, obviously, if you go back to the original one, it was a long list, but took similar items grouped them together to kind of make and some of these, like we said, a public art program, we're already doing that right now. The CIP policy would be new. There's been a lot public art program has been doing an awful lot painting the site of Shaw's. So there's a lot of programs that are going on right now. And that was number two, public art fund exists. They want to explore new strategies to increase the amount of funding to it. They want to do a public art inventory that would be new. I think that makes sense. Maintenance policy makes sense. I didn't know what the public art donation policy was. I didn't open up the document to see what it was. But that was a separately identified policy. The public art master plan, they want to re-adopt. I think we had talked a little bit about that. I can I can tell you, based on my recollection when reading the plan for number six, the collection management policy was I think they're just trying to adopt this. They plan to adopt a number of policies that that allows that commission to do its job. I think I think that that's their plan. Because they're still getting off the ground. So they want to adopt policies like this collection management policy. So they have something to follow when they go to do these things. It's my understanding. Okay, so yeah, we can we can clarify what those are. And clean this up a little bit. But that's where those two were from. The thematic art program. That was to facilitate temporary art. So that goes to the second part of that second thing, those temporary art pop up performances. So we've I think Montpellier Live has been doing a little bit of that. But I think they're trying to more formalize that and have that done a little bit more often. The public art display policy. I don't think that's a difficult, heavy lift. That's just trying to get a policy to help get stuff set aside so we can easily be able to roll out art on public property. There's the artist in residence program, those mentioning the tourism and marketing. So work with various stakeholders. See, that would be new. I think that that's one we could probably flesh out and it would be probably integrated with some of the work of Montpellier Live and Community Arts Service Program. I do know that the Community Services Department does do a lot of art programs. So the Senior Center and a couple of this. So that's that's really that's what to continue. I know they already do those things. And then there's the volunteer for art program. So we kind of crushed crunched it down to about 18 different strategies in there. They aren't prioritized. We haven't really gone through to see if any of them should be shuffled out to reserve. I mean, we did that in some other chapters to go through and say, Hey, there are too many strategies here to accomplish in eight years. Let's, if we want to be strategic, let's let's narrow this down to the most important things. But they're all there in some form and we can prioritize them and then decide costs. And unfortunately, most of the work is being done by committee. So it's a very active committee. And I think as long as it remains an active committee that doesn't require staff time, it's not not really taking a lot of staff effort right now to to implement most of these most of these are kind of coming through the efforts of the volunteers on that commission. It's good to me. I mean, as far as priority gets go, if you need to help with a couple options, we could talk right now with planning commission to think of what, you know, policy policy, like our opinion on the on the policy priorities, we could also try to look at the public art master plan to get ideas of, you know, make the high priority stuff to stuff that they said they want to get done in the next two, three years. What are people thoughts about about that? So do they have that in the master plan that or the whatever it's called, maybe, oh yeah, it is called the master plan, like prioritizing what they want to do in the next couple of years? Yeah, they have a timeline near the back of it, where that yeah, where they do lay out what they want to get done in the short term, mid term, long term. And so we can base our priorities off of that. That makes sense to me. Yeah, that makes sense. Looks for me. I can stop sharing and try to pull it up and we don't need to do this now, but but yeah, just so you know, Mike, just leave it to you to fill that in. Okay, so pages starting at page 49, priority action plan, short term goals to adopt the master plan with committed funding from the city to begin early and implementable projects and programming. So so the stuff's related to initial funding and they've already done a lot of it, like as in creating the commission. But some of these maintenance plans, the art maintenance policy that we mentioned a minute ago is one of their short term plans, the collection management policy, the public art donation policy, that's all their short term stuff, what they're considering high priority, they did consider the 1% for public art idea to be a high priority. Since it seems like our attitude is going to be like that's that's for others to debate, perhaps we can make it more of a, we don't have to set those high priority if you don't want to. And then their medium term stuff, I didn't pull a lot of their longer term stuff because our, you know, this was only an eight year plan. But like matching grants, I don't even know if we put that in there. Collaboration, the collaboration of stakeholders idea, it's just something that we have be like a medium term thing, so a medium priority. The Montpelier cultural plan stuff is more of a medium priority for them. I'm not sure the collaborating with local schools and those ideas ended up making it in, but that was going to be a medium priority for them. The volunteer program is a medium priority. And then longer term is to, they once again have the 1% for public arts idea in there and artist engagement and support. So in a nutshell, that's briefly me summarizing through the priorities that they set. So I think we've got stuff in there and we can kind of see how the debate goes, you know, they can always go through and recommend like we've kind of taken out some of the individual, you know, the, we've kind of have public art and then we've got the art institutions that we're helping, but not really getting to the level of individually helping artists. And I think that will be, you know, something they may want. I just don't know, you know, it's one of these ones that I sit back and think as, you know, as as government, where, where do we begin? Where do we end? You know, collaborating with the school to make sure the school has good art programs? Is that the job of City Hall? I don't know. I'd be more likely to say that's probably not. I mean, it's important and it's good, but you know, if the committee wants to take it upon themselves to try to work with the schools, that's, that's, I guess that's good. But I think it gets more problematic when you're trying to support individual artists. That's going to be a little bit trickier. But I think every place can figure it out. We've, we've targeted in this plan, public art, you know, how we manage, how we get more, how we maintain, how we take care of public art. A second tier is how do we help those groups and institutions? You know, we've got the arts on Berry Street. We've got, we've, we also have a bunch of studios, theaters, we've got a lot of those. How can we support those? And we've kind of left the artists themselves off of our plan. But I think the, the arts commission can certainly come in and argue, nope, we need a third aspiration and an aspiration to support artists themselves. And great, if that's where the city council and community wants to go, this is their plan, not necessarily my plan or our plan. We're drafting it, obviously, but there, they will ultimately make the decision on it. So I think that's fair. And, and, you know, there's other chapters to where we have to make that call, you know, when you were talking about public safety, for instance, it's like not everything public safety related is going to be planning related. So, you know, I imagine we'd have to make a call there too about about what's appropriate for the urban planning aspect of that. So I think that's fair. And yeah, I'm fine with we like, like the way that the current state of it might just, just to clarify is that we're leaving, you know, strategies out that would, that would be specific to individuals, right? Yeah, for the most part, we did. I did end up leaving in the strategy about the artist in residence, but a number or not a number. There were a few others that there was an aspiration about supporting artists and that didn't have a lot of strategies to go with it. So that was one of the reasons why it kind of dropped. You know, I don't exactly know if there was a, you know, a private artist living in town, what we as government can do to support individual artists in their, you know, in their work other than trying to make venues and places available for them to display and show their art, whether it's, you know, whether it's dance, whether it's paint, whether it's sculpture, whatever that art is, we provide opportunities for people to show that art. But I really didn't get into how to support the artists themselves. I mean, one area where I think it is appropriate to have in the plan is when we talk about the art classes, which I noticed that's still in there. I think that that's analogous to setting aside land for outdoor recreation, which we have in the plan, and then setting aside space for courses and, you know, art development, you know, I feel like those are like those are similar things. So that's that's the only area where I have a kind of opinion on that. And I figured I was going to leave that in because it's something we do already. If it was going to be an ask to add something to the community services department, I probably would have pushed back a little bit more. But the fact that we already do it kind of makes me go through and say, well, let's pat ourselves on the back for doing it. Let's put it in there about all the things that we do because we do a lot for art. City Hall, you know, the main gallery in City Hall behind me is an artist gallery. We sponsor for free Lost Nation Theatre. They don't pay any rent to to to have Lost Nation Theatre upstairs. And I, you know, as a city, we do a lot to support artists and we should pat ourselves on the back for the things that we do well. And obviously, there are things that we haven't done well. And those are the things we're trying to address through this new plan. Anybody have any follow up or are we happy for Mike to finish stuff and yeah, Mike and I'll communicate later about just putting a chapter together. But it sounds like we have a pretty good idea of how we're going to do that, too, just using the existing language. OK, anybody have anything else about this before we go on? Thanks a lot, Mike. We already talked about the upcoming meeting number eight, the upcoming meeting with the Start Preservation Committee. So that's going to be October 24th. And all we have left to do is to consider the minutes. So folks could take a look at the July, I think it's July 25th minutes. Yeah. Yeah, I looked at them before I move approval of the minutes. Yeah, pretty sure. It's a pretty short meeting. Summer's been summer's been pretty light. We have a we have a motion from our on to prove the minutes to have a second. I don't have a second from Aaron. OK, let me know if anyone needs more time. OK. Those they were approving the July 25th minutes. Say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. None opposed. Minutes approved. And all we have left to do is to adjourn at our next meeting, Mike, though, just so folks have an idea. So would it be possible to have us review and vote or or just review? Maybe we're not the point to vote on any of those. Chapters that you mentioned that are are done, but we haven't moved on. That'd be possible for the next meeting. Yep, I'll try to get at least one on so we can get that one through. OK, great. Looks like we're in the homestretch in the city plan, which is kind of wild. Yeah, I think it'll be a little bit more interesting once we're sitting here with, you know, up on our screens with the actual chapters in. You know, in the online format and we can kind of go through and kind of make final approvals of what we think we want the plan to finally look like. So that'll be good. Yeah, yeah, that's going to be a while. All right. Well, do we have a motion to adjourn? Move to adjourn. Second. Motion from Ariane and second from Erin. She was split second ahead. Those in favor of adjournment say aye. All right, see you guys two weeks. Thanks. Good night. Thanks. Have a great night.