 Good evening, everyone. I am so excited that you all have joined us tonight. Thank you for joining us tonight. I'm Beth Holloway. I'm the assistant dean for diversity and engagement in the College of Engineering here at Purdue. And we are excited to be celebrating first generation college student week this week. And as part of that celebration, I have invited four amazing alums to come and talk to you tonight about their experiences. And first, I want to thank them very much for taking the time to talk with us this evening. I know that they are located on all ends of the country, so it's at some different times where they are. But thank you very much to our panelists. And what I'm going to do is I'm just going to introduce them real briefly. And then I'm going to let them talk about their experiences so they each will say a few words about what they do about their experiences in college, etc. Hopefully that will spark some questions from y'all. And they are going to be really excited to answer. You can type your questions in either the chat box or the Q&A section tonight. When you do that, I will read those out and then our panelists will answer. So without further ado, and when I say a brief introduction, I truly mean brief introduction because I want them to tell you about themselves and what is important to them. So we have Bob, Ashley, Lauren and Patrick. And I am just going to pick one to go first and then we'll kind of roll from there. So hopefully y'all are ready. Ashley, you are already unmuted, so I am going to have you go first. Thanks Beth, thanks everybody for attending. So if you see me kind of like looking to the left, it's because one of the things I do is I talk too much like I'm doing now. And so I just kind of prepared some stuff so I could hit the important things. But my name is Ashley Suarez. I'm originally from Chicago, Illinois. I actually graduated in 2011 with a bachelor's in chemical engineering and a specialty in pharmaceutical engineering. And I'm not sure if they still do it, but it just allowed me to get classes more practically in like pharmaceutical manufacturing. It's a little bit different than some other fields. And I got to actually take classes that PharmDs took, so it was very interesting. So actually when it comes to like kind of my background in college and getting where I am. I have one older sister and she was the first person in my family to go to college or pursue secondary education. And she went into photography. So I went in high school to an all girls liberal arts high school. So our focus was like theater, English, visual arts. Science and math really weren't big. But luckily my senior year, my physics teacher said, hey, you're good at math. You're good at science. What about engineering? I have no clue what that is. But so I kind of talked a little more and took a leap right into an engineering degree and I'm really glad I had that guidance because otherwise I wouldn't be in a job I love so much. So then kind of when I started at Purdue, I was this small fish in this big pond. I came from an all girls high school into the chemical engineering program and I look around me. And it seemed like everybody around me's aunts, uncles, dads, cousins, brothers graduated from Purdue. They were engineers at Lilly at Proctor and Gamble. Yeah, you know, just kind of kind of nodding. And so I really was kind of a little meek and try my freshman year. But one of the big things that I ended up doing that really helped me a lot was getting involved in the women in engineering program. So my freshman year, I was lucky enough to be paired up with someone who was in one of those like lineages of Purdue grads and engineers and stuff like that. And it was great because she was down to earth and really helped give me tips and tricks to kind of succeed as an engineer because I had no clue that you had to go out and try to find an internship. I had no clue that, you know, I could go talk to a TA during office hours and learning. So that was one really big thing right that I just wanted to make sure I touched on. And it kind of helped me build confidence. And so while I was at Purdue, kind of just one other thing I want to hit on a big about maybe something I didn't know and learned was, you know, finances, right. So I didn't have people to coach me through how to pay for my schooling, right. And so luckily my sophomore year I was able to get a paid internship that came with a scholarship. But that's just a really big thing that I wish I would have kind of known. And, and as opposed to some of the other students around me right as being a first gen students, my family couldn't really coach me on. But so luckily right I ended up getting a paid internship and a scholarship with Merck and that's where I still am today so I spent the last nine years with Merck in a bunch of different positions. But something that I really keyed into and realized I liked quickly was being where the action happened so in manufacturing so I spent eight and a half years working in packaging manufacturing so I'm a chemie working in like mechanical and industrial engineering. And so I just recently actually made a switch now to like a completely remote role so I actually live in North Carolina that's where our huge packaging hub is. And now I'm doing like packaging design. So I've taken a change from every day coming in my job being different so like one day I went to work and our whole company got shut down by a cyber attack and I had to figure out how to get like for packaging assets back up so that people could still get like cancer medicine. To now, I'm actually designing packaging, like we do the handoff from clinical trials to a manufacturing site so I'm actually working on an antiviral oral solid for COVID. So I guess now I'm more on the other side but so really kind of getting my feet in, right, finding what I like and then moving it into something different but so now right that's kind of a quick journey but after eight years right. You can kind of see like a big city girl from Chicago I now work out of like a small town North Carolina packaging site so it's been a journey and that was a little longer than I thought but I do appreciate the sharing of your story. So, Bob, I'm going to ask you to go next. I want to thank everyone for joining us tonight. And I want to say, you know, I echo a lot of what Ashley, Ashley stated, and you know I'll start from my background though and I grew up in Northwest Indiana so pretty close to Chicago but just east of the state line and for her, it wasn't so much a teacher that led me down this path I was filling out my application for Purdue and my dad walk. Science, why don't you apply to the engineering school and then I got into the school engineering decided I liked it. But similar to what Ashley said, you know, one of the things, you know, when you come into Purdue and everyone else's parents or brothers and sisters and others that have gone to when you don't have that factor it's important to grow your own network and figure out how to do that, you know, you know, I want to echo what Ashley said, I heard everybody talk about TA hours and Professor hours and I will fully admit I did not take advantage of that. And I wish somebody would really just eat it into my head, because my first year was rough at Purdue. You know, like most engineering students. I passed the grades in high school. I never studied I never took a book home. I thought I could do that same thing and I quickly and, you know, and so then I had to teach myself how to study the rest of my freshman year and figured out sophomore year that I needed to find a group of friends to study with that were in all my classes and find people to lean on and learn from. And eventually my grades came up and ended up, you know, graduating and I worked for the state of Indiana for a number of years and about eight years I worked for the state of Indiana and for the past 11 years I've been working for H&TB Corporation. And now I am currently the group director and water service practice leader so I'm responsible for trying to grow our water services so that's you know store water drinking water wastewater and managing a group of about 35 of engineers so to be honest I don't do much engineering work anymore it's more trying to manage people and just make sure that everybody's doing what they're supposed to and keeping our clients happy and developing relationships so you know all those things that I kind of picked up in college on developing relationships have really served me well to keep sure keep making sure that we're delivering and and making sure our clients are happy and employees are happy and just kind of using all the well rounded skills that I picked up at Purdue. Great thanks Bob. And I will just add here that once an engineer always an engineer so you always need to call yourself an engineer even if you're not doing calculations all day or whatever it is we think engineers do. You were trained as one and you are one. Okay. Lauren, can you tell us a bit about your background yourself and what you do. Yeah hi and like Ashley I also have notes. So you guys will see me looking over to the site because I want to make sure I cover everything. So my name is Lauren McCallier I grew up in Indianapolis Indiana. I went to Perry meridian high school for those of you that grew up in the Indianapolis area. And I graduated from Purdue with a degree in industrial engineering in 2005. I started working at NASA down at the Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas, right after that so in January 2006 is when I started at NASA and so I'm coming up on my 15 year anniversary work anniversary of coming here in January. You know, like the other panelists I, in the first person in my family to graduate from college to ever attend a four year program at all. And so, you know, having a professional study or a professional degree was not something that was really on my radar growing up it's just not something that I saw in my family or, you know, even in my neighborhood. But I got involved in the first robotics team in high school, and I was involved in that pretty much all through high school and through that we were mentored by Rolls Royce. And I met people for the first time who were engineers. And so that was like my first time being exposed to real life people who who were engineers and I could really understand what that would look like in everyday life. And so that's where people started talking to me about potentially pursuing that for college. So one thing that I did that I think was kind of pivotal for me was going to engineering camp so I don't know if Purdue still offers this but back in the early 2000s they did. And I went to engineering camp the summer before my senior year in high school. You got to stay in the dorms you got to do projects, you know meet other kids who are interested in engineering. And through that I was exposed to the various labs and the types of things that engineers do and what it would look like to go to a four year college. So that's that's where I knew I wanted to go to Purdue. I applied I got accepted, and I had an excellent time there I think some of the things that that helped me be successful through my studies at Purdue is obviously the mentorship aspect you know actually talked about that a little bit. Mentorship, I cannot stress enough how important mentorship is at the university level and then even at the professional level. I'm in management now I've, you know, been been a supervisor for many years and one of the things that I, that I try to drive home with with, you know, interns or even new employees or anybody really interviewing for a job at all is the idea of utilizing your resources and looking at what success looks like and trying to emulate that going and talking to people and asking them, hey, you're doing this thing, what are those skills that you have that got you there, and then look at your own like have some self awareness look at your own projects your own job your own situation and then trying to develop those competencies. But to me it's what does success look like through mentorship. The other thing that I, when I talked to students, especially engineering students and this was something that I was able to come to understand. You know, I struggled early on I remember my first year it was, it was tough. And, you know, my, my mom she's my cheerleader right but she didn't know what I was going through and how, and how, you know, mentally taxing trying to get an engineering degree is, but I think the thing for me that I, that I came to understand and that I provide to a lot of students now is the university is teaching you how to be a problem solver. And if the degree that you are earning, they're not giving it to you you're earning it. If it's not worth something. Then, that's why it's hard right it's hard because it's worth something. And when places like NASA or pharmaceutical companies or whatever, when they're coming to Purdue and they're looking for engineers they know that they're going to get a quality engineer because that's what Purdue turns out. And so, I think the point that I'm making is, yes, it's hard, but it's worth it. Because your investment is worth something in the long run and that's that degree that you are running. The other thing I want to talk about is taking advantage of the support that the university offers through resume help office hours to support. I had to do all of that. There is no way I would have gotten through with the grades that I did without falling back on that support. Support through the women in engineering program through the mentors there through my resident assistance again, what is success look like what are these people doing that have, you know, unlocked the key to success and then trying to emulate that and learn from others right. And that's something that, you know, I've also been able to bring into NASA and, and as, as a flight controller. So, I'll talk about that a little bit as a flight control that's something we drive home in our new flight controllers is that idea of competency, because the decisions that our flight controllers are making when their mission control can have ultimate consequences. And so, you know, utilizing their resources and studying and knowing their stuff is about most importance. So that's kind of taking you to what I'm doing now. I started at NASA 2006. I started as a shuttle flight controller. I achieved many certifications before I got to what they call the front room that's the room if you turn on NASA TV you're going to see mission control and TV. It may be shocking to you, but they don't put you there right out of college you've got to work your way up into that room, learn lots of different things. And so I was a flight controller for shuttle. For the last 21 space shuttle missions. And then I since then gone into different management and supervisory positions. Today I manage a team of about 115 people. They are flight controllers across several different disciplines for the International Space Station across multiple countries because it is an international effort. And they primarily perform planning and integration functions for the International Space Station and then for commercial crew as well and then also for Artemis, which will be launching in about a year. So that's the job that I have now and I think those things taking advantage of resources mentorship, and then just sort of like toughness and competence is what I would say is made me successful and what I've seen, seen others do. I, it's been a while since we've caught up and those are some pretty cool things that you've been working on. Patrick, can you tell us some things about what you're doing, where you came from, how you got there. Yeah, and I just want to start off I mean the other three panelists really covered a lot of important points so I'll try to skip over those and kind of tell you my experience I know there's a lot of good stuff in there. So I'll just kind of start the beginning about 10 years ago I started my Purdue journey and like the other three. I guess, confident, you know I got in Purdue engineering really excited, kind of unbelievable experience but once it hit and all the questions started coming is kind of overwhelming and lost and how to handle it. And where to even start you know my parents, they didn't have the answers who my parents have always had the answers, I couldn't go to them and just get that answer right there. And then you know, even asking out friends family even asking the university there's kind of a variety of different answers you would get, and none of them are perfect. And that was one of the big things I learned right away coming from high school, like Bob, you know it was very straightforward, you know, kind of easy, I would say, and then college is like whoa whoa whoa. And I think the one thing I learned at Purdue a lot was that you have to create your own answers. There's no one there that's going to give you that answer there's no one that can give you that answer, and you, you have to take your foot forward and keep working towards it and create your own answers create your own journey. And that's kind of, you know, my big takeaway from all this, but just a little, you know, history going in, I thought I was going to be an aerospace engineer, all this grand grand thoughts got in and realize whoa first year tough. Probably not for me. I got paired up with a great great advisor who guided me and kind of you know there's these options take this seminar kind of get a handle of what you like what you want to do what makes you happy. That really really got me going triple E was brand new environmental and ecological engineer then I think I was one of like the first seven students and definitely one of the first undergrads, or I guess under a junior in there I think I was the first one. And it was so that brought me into a mentorship with I had all these great upperclassmen direct contact with which I mean in a civil or something there's so many people it's really hard to get that contact. And I'm not lucky in that aspect but to reiterate everyone else, you know, really reach out to your peers and get that connections and try to have them as your support group. And that leads into the second part can your support group is so important at Purdue whether it's your parents, or your friends, faculty advisors professors there's everyone you know even the people you go to the bar with it really doesn't matter you need that support group there. Try to establish that as early as you can and be there for other people don't forget to reciprocate that. And then while I was there, I think one of the biggest takeaways from the classes I took was epics. It was incredible. I great people it was tough. I hated it sometimes daily you know but I learned so much and there's so much I bring and use every day. And then my wife was an epics to and we both talk about those skills we learned you know daily or we bring them into clubs or different things you know different committees are on now which is awesome to have that experience. And while I was there I kind of took a different route than I would say a lot of people do I found my internship at school. I worked for the Office of University sustainability for almost two and a half years there. And that kind of is what I use for my professional experience. And it was amazing I got to really branch out into what I like to do which is sustainability work. But also I got to have real world probably I would go from one class and then go to that internship on the same day and I'd be working on the same things. So I could really tie together. You know those those subjects and it's awesome to have that opportunity to do. And that is like what I want to drive home as much as possible you guys have so many resources at that school. Don't let them go to waste like everyone was saying you know whether it's a TA office hours resume help or internship any of that like they're at your fingertips use them. And yeah, and then I guess now I right out of school I got an internship with the Department of Energy working on energy policy which personally makes me happy I love doing it. But there's this part of me this engineer part of me coming out of school that was like I need I want to eat my PE. I want to do this traditional role, and I want to build these skill sets. So after that internship I came out to California and I'm working for a general engineering contractor doing mostly civil work but civil structural and little environmental work. So what we do is we take public and private jobs and we build them. I'm actually on construction sites daily and managing the crews and budgets and all that. So it's really fun to see the design come and you build a road, you know it's really cool bringing all that out and actually seeing it you know everyone's kind of touched on that seeing those products and having your hands on something that's happening. And that's so great about engineering. So right now I'm studying for my PE I'll be taking in January, fingers crossed. And then hopefully maybe getting back in an energy policy or something a little more passionate so and I know that you're going to be successful when you take your PE because you are a Purdue engineer. So, there you go. I mentioned when she was talking that she met for the first time she met engineers when she was in high school. And that got me to thinking when was the first time I actually met a real live engineer. And it was not until I went to college so I'll share that I identify as a first gen student myself and I know a little about engineering that I didn't know that women weren't supposed to do that. So I guess that was a good thing that I had no clue that women weren't supposed to be engineers I just thought that was normal because you know I wanted to do it but Anyway, this is not about me. So we have a question. Also be a good one I think a great one for Patrick but I think maybe everyone might want to weigh in on this one. Do you suggest taking the FE exam and getting your PE as soon as possible once out of college. So FE I would highly recommend doing it your senior year or right out of college. Most of that information is going to be what you learned in your classes. Just being able to knock down out it wasn't too bad. It's more of just getting into the habit of learning how that exam set up and how to study how to be ready for those questions. The resources are there. They kind of guide you along. PE is a whole nother I think it depends on what you're going to get for environmental you can possibly do it more out of school for a civil. So I think it's a great experience that some of the questions are directly related professional development that you're not going to be able to get from just classes, you're going to need a little bit of experience, but I know they're transitioning. The PE that you can take it after you pass your FE you can take your PE whenever the actual exam, you won't get your stamp until after you have the amount of experience so. So over here, I had to Google FE because I forgot what it meant. But that was one thing in my notes so that I wanted to maybe just express so know the field that you're getting into. Because right now in my career right at nine years I've been able to go through like three promotions and get to a point where right in FE or PE isn't going to buy me much it's going to be more about my skill set. Because of the career path I've taken. And just the group I'm in right so I have an engineering background I went into manufacturing I loved being a part of that. And where I am right it's not not a fairly required. And if I did it, I wouldn't be passionate about it, so I wouldn't do well at it. And that's like one piece of advice I got from mentor at work that I thought was great like why are you doing it know your role know what you need to excel at because if there's no passion behind it and there's no reason for you really to get it. You don't need to check a box right so yeah, and I literally I have Google up like FE PE what am I forgetting. So actually I'll share with you, I have been graduated for so long that when I graduated it was not the FE. It was actually called the EIT exam engineer in training. And I took it because a professor told me to. And I said, I don't think I'm going to need it and he said you don't know that. Take the test now, because you can you'll forget everything that you need for that fundamental exam, take it now and then you will have it so I took it, but I never did take the PE exam. Bob do you have something to add. You're not the only one that took the EIT. So, don't, don't feel, don't feel too bad but similar to what you said it was now now also admit I didn't realize the importance of it. Similar to Patrick and and I think I forgot to mention I graduated with an agricultural and biological engineering degree and have kind of matriculated to civil engineering more so than, than what one would expect from a typical ag engineer. But I didn't realize the importance of the FE or PE until it was almost too late, because when, when I took it and that took it and until a few years ago. It was only offered in the spring of your senior year and that Saturday was always grand prix at Purdue, and I had some friends that were trying to talk me into you know just enjoying our last grand and the only thing that really kept me from doing that was I think I'm trying to remember it was a few years ago. But I think as long as you took the test and in a be it was paid for by the school but if you signed up for it and didn't pay you had to reimburse them $50 or whatever the cost was it wasn't a significant cost unless you're in college and you have no money. And so the only thing that really saved me was the fact that I was going to have to figure out how to come up with $50 to repay the egg and bio engineering school, the cost of my FE. And then, you know, looking back on it now in my career and you know I'm licensed in several states. And, you know, if I would have made that mistake I don't know where my career would have actually taken me. And so it's, it's, I would strongly suggest if you're going into one of the fields like civil or where you're going to look to be doing something. Yes, take the FE as soon as possible and similar to what Patrick said, depending on what branch you want to take the FE can wait a couple years and you can learn as you go but the FE is take it while you're in college. I've heard many stories from folks of who've tried to take it a couple years after college and they've regretted that decision. I won't even try. The FE exam is now a computerized exam and you can schedule it whenever it fits best in your schedule in your last semester of college and would be the earliest you can take it. I was a December grad so my date was on Halloween. So that was also a fun thing. And now COVID we are in a global pandemic right so you're not going to you're not going to be wanting to leave the house. This year would have been great only do you have to take it at a testing site and many of those have not always been open through the pandemic so it's a little bit hard. There is a question. So Purdue assists in paying for the FE question mark. I will say that some of the engineering departments will assist some will not. So this is a great question to ask your advisor does Purdue offers in mind in this department does do you offer assistance to help pay for the FE. And unfortunately Bob it's a lot more than 50 bucks nowadays. They changed the name and it also went up a little bit in price so inflation and all of that. Okay so we have another question. How important do you think joining an honest honor society on campus is this is an interesting question. I'm not qualified to answer that because I never qualified for an honor society on campus when I was an undergrad but you know maybe some of our panelists would care to take that question. I can address that. So, for a number of years I've as as part of NASA I have been doing interviews for our pathways program which is just another name of for our co op program. And it's a pretty competitive program. The students that that get selected for an interview it's pretty hard to get an interview and then even after that it's pretty tough to get a spot. The reason being is because when the students end up serving their, you know, full co op tours, it's usually three tours. They're, you know, 99% guaranteed a placement after that and it's a, you know, as a federal civil servant which is also another kind of tough thing to get. So anyway, all that and saying I interview students for that. And the way I would, I would address this question is just based on what I'm looking for in interviews. All the students are smart. They're all smart. They all have great good grades. That is not a defining factor for who I want to hire who I want to hire is someone who has used their experience and I see there's another question in here about clubs courses research, you know, internships. I want to see a student who's used their experience whatever that is to demonstrate teamwork that they can play well with others that they can solve hard problems and have independent thoughts. Those are the kinds of things that I'm looking when I interview a student. So a resume with, I've done a through Z means nothing to me. It's a student who can speak about those things in a tangible way and show me that they've leveraged the honor society, the club, the internship, whatever it is to be a valuable contributor into the workplace. The, the kinds of things literally if you just googled what our interview questions it's all those things it's tell me about being part of a team. Tell me about having to come up with the creative solution. Tell me about working through a conflict with another person. Those are the kinds of things that we're looking at. So I would just say, not focusing on too much about like the specific thing, the club the honor society the research the internship. What are you learning out of that and then what can you then bring with you into the workplace. That's what I care about. Yeah, and I, yeah, and Lauren, I think that I echo that so I wasn't an honor society. I was in the chemical engineering honor society, my junior and senior year but I'd say it was just, it was what I made of it so I got to leave this like the kids day and, you know, when I went into interviews to Lauren's point I listed the honor society I was in, because I had such a great story to tell about it so it is something and it's the same. What Lawrence the same advice I give people with their resumes or what what they're looking to join. Find something you're passionate about so you can get a really good experience like I think Patrick probably has some good ones in epic that's another really big one I would say like, it's not an honor society but it's a really good experience like I did it for one semester, because that's all I could fit but it was. Yeah, and it's a tangible experience right it's like a project that you're working on with a team that you have something to show for it then so I think that's another bonus for for an interview or for you know a career. We have a question in the Q&A. I love to hear about all the resources pretty offers is a transfer student during the pandemic. I am struggling to uncover a lot of these. I can imagine why it's much more difficult these days than it typically is. A few topics I'd love to hear more about how to be involved in the women and engineering program can I explore internships around the West Lafayette area or should I automatically broaden my scope. And what was the top resource you utilized at Purdue, if you haven't already addressed it. I can, I can start with the broadening your scope and it partially depends on what you want to do. I mean, obviously I'm not qualified to talk about the women in engineering and can't relate to that one at all. But I mean, you know, there's, there's opportunities in the West Lafayette area. But if you're going to only want to focus in that area, your options are going to be extremely limited. So, you know, like I said in Northwest Indiana and made it to Purdue and then had an internship in Indianapolis and haven't really left since then. But that internship came through talking with my faculty advisor and just talking to him about jobs and where the potential existed. And not trying to limit my focus and understanding the fact that, you know, to get a job after school and internship was really important. I had preferred, you know, I preferred trying to stay close to West Lafayette just because my family was up close to Chicago and Indianapolis isn't too much farther away. And as time grew on, I said, I don't really care where it is as long as I can find some sort of a job, I'll go wherever I can as long as my car will get me there. So I mean, you know, it's partially in what you want to make of it. And if there's something ultra specific your options are going to be fairly limited. But, you know, if you're willing to travel your, your options will be much more abundant. Thanks, Bob. I think that that is great advice. You certainly can try to target a particular geographical location, whether it's West Lafayette or somewhere else in general. But you might have more limited options than if you are open to a broader area. As far as being involved in the Women in Engineering program, I would highly suggest that you just send me an email directly and I'll get you hooked up. So what I didn't mention is that in addition to being assistant dean for diversity and engagement, I am the director of the Women in Engineering program. This is how I know Ashley and Lauren. I've gotten to know Bob and Patrick's through this process, but yeah, my email is super easy, holloway at Purdue.edu. Send me an email and we'll get you connected. It'd be great. In terms of a top resource that you utilize when you were at Purdue, so maybe each of you could say like, if you could, if you had to pick just one thing. What was it? I would say a stumper. Yeah, I would say for me it was the help rooms. I would not have passed any of the physics without the help rooms. For sure. Yeah, and so the number one when she says just when Beth says just email her she means it like she will get back to you. I think for me it was like office hours they're just smaller than big lecture halls and that it was easier for me to digest I was so so overwhelmed and some of the big classes. Lauren said help room. So this is many of the departments have these. So, physics has one math has one chemistry has one. A lot of the courses in the Emmy department have them. There are rooms that you can. Well, in a normal semester, not a pandemic semester in a normal semester they are open during certain hours typically all day long, and you can just pop in there and they are staffed with somebody who can help you. So the physics help room as an example. That's been around for quite some time because Lauren used it but I did do a longer, longer time ago. And, you know, I had questions about my homework right I would go in and I would say I tried to I started this problem, and I got stuck. Can y'all help me, or you know I was studying for an exam and there was a concept that I totally didn't get. So I went to the help room, and you know they can get you hooked up a lab, right you have to do your after lab report, and you get stuck in a certain section right they can help you get unstuck. So they can help with both broad concepts and specific issues both. And it's a little bit different than office hours right because office hours are typically for a particular professor or a particular TA with a particular course. So a help room is sort of like a tutoring center for that particular subject. The only thing I can say about physics is if you have trouble telling your right hand from your left hand be extra careful when you need to implement the right hand rule. So this is why I got to see in physics. How has being or has being a first generation college graduate caused you any major hardships that you've had to overcome in postgraduate professional life and how did you overcome them. So I one of the things that caused me a lot of hardships was the first role I took out of college was very like technical it was in developing right our medicine so it was working on stuff that was in the pipeline right everybody around me was similar to like the people in college that overwhelmed me. And so I got into my career and I was like, oh my gosh, like this is what it being an engineer is and I'm never going to be able to do it. I don't know what the rest of the folks on this call it's like what my family was like a blue collar worker so trade workers everything and that's who I related to I couldn't really do folks at that level. So what I did was, and luckily I was in a rotational program. I took a role like way outside of that space in like manufacturing and I ended up being better able to connect with my like fellow employees when I found a job and a role that was more similar to like what the people I had grown up with and so I would say for me, like overcoming that hating like this environment I worked in was was really trying to find mentors and thinking about other positions that that you could work so maybe it doesn't always have to be the most technical engineering job that you go into right you can be putting on safety shoes every day and walk into a production floor. I think this would be a good time to talk about imposter syndrome. I didn't know that that's what this was called when I was in school, but I certainly had it. I remember walking into, you know, huge lecture hall. The first day. And, you know, I had just gotten the computer for the first time I did not grow up with the computer in my home. I learned to type on a typewriter, and my dad had gotten me a computer to go to college and I knew nothing. I didn't know how to save a file. I didn't know how to search the internet I knew nothing. And I'm going in in this class where this is this is years ago guys right but it's you know it's computer programming it's like the entry level computer programming. And, you know, all of these these other kids I call them kids. It's like they all seem to know what was going on and I was like, this is literally a foreign language I didn't even know this existed. And that was kind of the start of, I do not belong here I do not deserve to be here. And, you know, throughout my, my college career. I had this, I need to work harder than everybody else. And I did, and I made better grades and everybody else to, but I attributed it to the fact that I just worked my butt off. And so then I got in guy got to NASA, and you know you're kind of in the same environment as a flight controller it's like, you're, you're tested and you're tried, and you. I mean they don't want you to kill anybody and your actions can kill people. And so it is not for somebody who is thin skinned. I mean, people in flight control training like, you're going to get yelled at, you're going to get, you know, told when you make a mistake in no uncertain terms. And so, you know, I kind of went through the whole the same thing again it's like, Okay, I have to study I have to work harder than everybody else. And it wasn't until I was in my last position and so this is like 10 plus years into my career, where I had a boss who I would say he gave me some stretch assignments. He's like, Lauren, I want you to go to this and I'm like, really me now you want me to go do that. And he's like, Yeah, you can do it you're smart. And it's he pushed me to my limit. And it wasn't until that happened that it that it feels like that imposter syndrome went away. Now I'm in a role that there is no there is no room for that. It's like I have to make hard decisions every day and my responsible for a lot of people and a lot of work. I don't struggle with that anymore but it took many years into my career to like let that go. I think it's just, I guess the advice that I have for anybody that's dealing with that is just one it's normal. And then to maybe because of your experiences, you do have to work harder to overcome some things, but it's not because you're not smart, and you don't deserve to be there at Purdue at NASA wherever. It's maybe just because you didn't have the things that the other kids had growing up. And that doesn't mean you're any less of a person it just means you have to work to overcome some of those things because you didn't get, you didn't start ahead of the game right. So that's that's the advice that I'd give and to that for everything that you have as a challenge. You also have a strength. And, you know, and Ashley kind of referred to this a little bit growing up with blue collar family and family friends and that was my experience to and it turns out, I was really, really great at working with technicians, like super awesome. That was a strength that I had. And so, you know, there are things that are part of your background that you can use as strengths to build on your career and build on your success. So, so I wouldn't always, I guess I'm going to challenge everyone who's on the call to not just think about the challenges you have, but think about the assets that you bring because of your background. So don't think about what you need to do in spite of your background, think about what you have because of your background. So that's maybe a interesting thing to think about for you all. Who has been your biggest mentors throughout both academia and your personal life? And how did you find them? I'm going to add that. How did you find your mentors? For me, I've always found that informal mentorships work best. So there are mentor programs everywhere you go. To me, I observe, again, what does success look like, and that's the relationship that I start to form. And so, you know, I think that if someone were to ask someone who's my mentor, hey, are you Lawrence Mentor? They'd be like, yeah, I guess I am, but I mean, we've never really used that word before. And so for me, that's just been a more successful, it's a relationship. It's not a title. And through the relationship is where you bring things to them, right? So I meet with several of my mentors monthly, and I'll think about it as I go through them as, okay, what are the kinds of things that this person is involved in that maybe I can bring them a different perspective that they could be exposed to? Or maybe I could bring them into some challenges that I'm having at my level that they could help me with because they've been there too. So my point is use the relationships intentionally and think of it as a relationship, a two-way street, instead of a title. Some of my most biggest mentors, okay, so I had a women in engineering mentor named Adrienne, and this was in the, I'm sure I'm calling it the wrong thing, but it's when you're a freshman and you are paired up in a kind of a small class, like small group setting with an upperclassman and they're talking to you about things like, you know, resume prep and how to do a job fair and the differences between like all the different engineering disciplines. Adrienne was the coolest, and I had looked up to her a lot, but she was very significant in my life because she also and studied industrial engineering. And like a story I heard earlier, I also came to Purdue to be an aeronautical engineer and then realized it was not my cup of tea during my freshman year. And so learning to find out, oh, there's something called industrial engineering and this is what it is was a huge eye opener for me. So that was an important mentor I had. Another important mentor is I that I've had for many, many, many, many years, 10 plus years is a woman named Ginger Carrick who was a flight director at NASA. And she started mentoring me when she was still going through her certification process and I was as flight director and I was going through my certification process to be a, you know, front room flight controller as you call it. But in that we were able to work together and we were learning our own independent thing together and we've maintained that relationship throughout the years. She ended up being my supervisor like one position ago before I just got this promotion. But using her, you know, sort of using her again as a relationship she also made my wedding cake to which is cool. It's really a relationship. That's the thing that I want to stress is it's not, it doesn't have to be a formal thing. I find mostly informal tends to be best for me. I always struggle with this question, because I kind of what Lauren said I I don't think I have any some they're like mentors I don't know what that is I have a lot of great relationships with peers with people that are, you know, older doing what I want to do kind of things like that I mean even I would call my, my mom, a mentor in some ways you know there's so many people in your life that you would look up to and you learn from and you learn your strengths and you gain something and you give something to. And I just you know it's all about building really solid relationships and being involved in other people's lives. I was going to say just being like a little tactical right when someone doing a presentation at work because a lot of the times if you're at a larger company and they say, you know, I'd love to meet with you after if you're interested. If they interest you meet with them, right, and follow up and talk to them. You know, that's just how I operate and it's what's given me a couple opportunities that I wouldn't have had other ways I make sure I follow up if they say like you really want to hear it. Don't get me mail from me after like hey thanks for the presentation but let's talk. Well, heartily what everyone else has said is it's a two way street. You know, it's on your, your mentor is learning is money, even if it's not, you know, as I progress through my career I become more of the mentor than the mentee but I'm learning just as much from those folks that are asking me questions and trying to do different things as they're learning from me so it's definitely a two way street and don't be afraid to ask. Don't be afraid to ask your senior leaders once you get out of school questions. You know what I try to tell our new grads and co ops and folk things like that, you know it's. So you guys just as much as you want to talk to people that are your age, you know, I like to watch football, I like to watch basketball, you know, and, you know, you know, we're all people. No matter what position you attain in life. You know, we all have some aspect that we'd like to relate to other folk, other people, and want to have those personal relationships no matter where you end up. And granted it may not always be the best time to talk about you know the cold scheme or you know whatever basketball game it was. But you know, there's no harm in trying to come and talk to me I like to spend time talking about things outside of work and you know growing as a person. So it's, it's don't be afraid to approach those people that you want to learn from. Most of us are most people are happy to take the time to grow because ultimately if you're in a company with that person it's to everybody's benefit for everybody to keep moving along and growing and you know whether it's you know whether it's a private company or a governmental agency. You know, it benefits everyone when everybody advances. Another thing to build on what Bob said, all of us got to where we are now because we had mentors because we had people who were willing to coach us who are willing to sponsor us who are willing to write us a recommendation letter. Tell someone else that we were really great something along those lines. And because we all have that in our lives. Most of us want to be that for somebody to right because we know that to get to success, however you define success you have people who help you along. And so, you know, don't be afraid to talk to people about what they're doing or ask their opinion or ask for more information about a really cool thing that you're interested in right because, you know, they had that in their life too, in their professional career. Okay, so we have two minutes left. And real quick, what is one last thing that each of you want to say to our students on the call. What would you say to some fellow first geners. There's so much fun that are produced such a great place. There's so many experiences like things like endless out there I mean there's so many there's research there's extracurricular there's there's sports there's just so much you can do there and have fun relish every experience you have. Don't leave. In college, the real world though, but I would say like, I think in law and use the term imposter syndrome. Find something that let's help you overcome it right so for me it was that like I the game of life like that's when I first saw like the term engineer and they made a lot of money and so I was like let me do this and then everyone else like oh I do this. But then once I found that one thing that made me more confident, I just, you know, you kind of kind of go from there so if you're not doing everything that's fine you don't need to be, but do something meaningful while you're there. Don't be afraid to ask questions. I think as engineers in one in engineering students a lot of us think we have to know all the answers. Don't be afraid to ask for help. Like, you know, I knew there were help rooms and ta hours and I made my life entirely more difficult than it needed to be by not taking advantage of those. So I would encourage everybody to take advantage of those and ask for help. No one, no one's going to look down on you for that. I would just say your future is bright. If you are willing to put in the work to achieve the degree to earn the degree. What you have is very valuable what you will have is very valuable, and it'll be something that you get to have for the rest of your life. It sounds like all the panelists aren't doing exactly what we studied in college now. That's normal. I am not frequently pulling out my engineering books or my graphing calculator on a regular basis, but I am solving hard problems. And I am, you know, I feel contributing to something that's way bigger than myself right this international team. That's doing human exploration. And so, and I would have never had that opportunity in others that are doing this with me alongside me. They're all engineers too. And so it's a it's an elite thing to achieve. And it's something that's very valuable to bring with you for the rest of your life. Well, just to close things out, I want to thank you all. Once again, Bob, Ashley, Lauren, Patrick, thank you for spending the time with us this evening. Your advice has been really helpful. I know I got an email from a couple of students saying I really wanted to come but I had X or Y or Z going on. Are you going to record this. So we will be posting the recording somewhere once we figure out a good place to put that. So you guys can learn from your advice and you're sharing. So thank you all very much for all the students out there. Feel free to send me an email if you have follow up questions. Other things I am happy to help. I really do mean it. And I really will answer all of you. So thanks to everyone for attending. Have a great rest of your evening and boiler up.