 Hello and welcome to NewsClick's International Roundup. Over the past few days, the United Kingdom witnessed two key votes in the House of Commons. First, Prime Minister Theresa May's proposal for Brexit was massively defeated, with MPs of her own party and her allies deserting her. The very next day, she managed to win a vote of no confidence that was moved by opposition leader Jeremy Corbyn. However, her victory does not mean much, as there is no certainty right now on the future of Brexit and the future of the United Kingdom itself. To talk more about this, we have with us Prabir Prakash, the editor-in-chief of NewsClick. Prabir, first, let's take these two votes, which almost seem completely contradictory. One, there's a huge defeat, and the very next day, she manages to win a vote of confidence. So how do you see this glaring contrast between these votes? One explanation, of course, is what various commentators have started giving, the ineptness of the British ruling class, that the schools of Eaton and Harrow really have not equipped the British ruling class with an ability to run anything except their clubs, and having messed up all the territories that once upon a time they ruled, and now the chickens as it were coming home to roost, even in the United Kingdom, which looks less and less united, particularly with the Brexit vote. Leaving these things aside, let's look at the crisis, the larger crisis that is there. One crisis, of course, of the European Union itself, which is what is the European Union? And I think this has led the various reaction, including one within the United Kingdom. If you see the project of the European Union, it was essentially one between Germany and France, that they shouldn't go to war again. And therefore, a union starting with a common market, a European common market that integrated in the economies would prevent future wars from taking place. And this is what led, in some sense, to the formation of the European Union, the European common market, and the financial union, which did not include the United Kingdom. So this is where it starts from, the two wars, no war again, and let's get together. Unfortunately, in that project, it was also that finance capital seized the European Union project, and it became financial capital who control European Union. And in fact, it could be argued that the policies of the European Union reflected the policies of the financial oligarchy in these countries. And in that sense, the European Union therefore led to a reaction amongst a number of people, that this is anti-working class, it's anti-poor, and so on. And therefore, the pushback against European Union has come, both from that section, which feels alienated from the globalization project in terms of losing out, both in terms of jobs, the working class, towns getting shut down, the so-called globalization, which is really globalization of finance capital, and that has led to the reaction in a lot of the places which have seen the worst consequences of this kind of globalization, neoliberal globalization, capitalist globalization, whatever name you give it. And this pushback has manifested itself against the European Union project itself. So it has both these elements, which is going, harking back to an imperial past. If we separate from the European Union, we will again be great, and also a left-wing push against finance capital. And so you see very unlikely forces which go behind this kind of cause, which is left as well as a right, but from very different positions. But I think the bigger issue is that while the European Union project is unraveling and it's unraveling due to the crisis of the globalization project itself, the rise of ethnic nationalism in different places as a response, but it is also unraveling what I would call as the United Kingdom to the Nazi United Kingdom. And a lot of this fissures which sort of hid behind the imperial project, Britain will never be slaves, but it would enslave others. That the rule, Britannia rule the wave, this kind of imperial project, which united various sections in it. I think that unraveling, losing the colonies first, now being sort of the odd man out in the European Union for a long time and not knowing where its future belongs. As completely the United States, as a lot of people call the poodle of the United States, the lapdog of the United States, or does it have an independent existence? And if it doesn't, if it does not have this imperial existence, larger than life with 60 billion people, not too big a country, not too big economy, except the financial district of London, which of course remains the, shall we say the world's biggest capital for tax havens, because all the tax havens in the world, a very large number of them seem to be the ex-British colonies or islands and all sort of go back to city of London. If you take all of this out, the European, the identity of the United Kingdom seems to be now unfolding, with Scotland saying our Scottish identity, and of course the biggest problem in Ireland, that the small part they had spun out as Northern Ireland, because it had a protested majority, unlike the rest of Ireland, which was really otherwise a homogeneous, should have been a homogeneous nation, Irish nation. Now that border becomes a huge fracture again, because it means that once it leaves the European Union, UK leaves the European Union, the Northern Ireland, Southern Ireland border would have all kinds of duties and everything in it, and therefore the integrity of Northern and Southern Ireland, or Republic of Ireland, which has been built over now, a fair large number of years, that's going to come unstuck, and I think you will see its repercussion of the, in Ireland, and of course the Irish question, which again was a divide and rule imperial policy of the United Kingdom or the British ruling class, I think that's going to plague them again. No easy answers to this question. I don't think it's a left versus right issue, but I do think the ruling classes of Europe are now plunging deeper into the crisis, that they do not know how to continue the quote-unquote capitalist project, that global capital was the way they thought they would go, they could run with this for some time at least, and control the world's economy indirectly along with the United States. Now that is unraveling, but they don't really have anything to put in place, and ethno-nationalism of different kinds looks like that it could not only fragment the European project, but it also would create insurmountable problems for ruling classes of these countries, because ethno-nationalism is not a way, which is not a way forward. For left crisis as well, because left is also divided into different countries, depending on which country is it, are they against the European Union, or are they against the finance capital controlling European Union, or are they against the European Union itself, and I think that fracture also depends on which country you are in. So if you are in a country like Germany, the leftists take one kind of position, if in a country which is sort of the southern part of Europe, where they're already being talked about as hangers on, then the countries which are, what is it, we call the pigs, so the Portugal, Ireland, Greece, and so on. So they're not very nice terms to use. If you are a part of that, then what would be your response to this? And therefore the left itself has been split in different places in different ways. But I think the real issue is for the left and the right, European Union is increasingly looking to be an obstacle for further development of the positions, and I'm not sure that anybody has a very easy answer to this. Yes, I think the Brexit course is going to be very rocky indeed. And they seem to be going towards a situation where a Brexit will take place without any negotiations. So they will have, quote unquote, a hard Brexit, not a soft Brexit. And taking off from the point about the left, the Labour Party in Britain is also in the middle of a huge crisis. So we have on the one hand the fact that also and then a large percentage of Labour's voters actually voted leave. On the other hand, the party itself has been rocked by a lot of voices. And Corbyn himself is a reluctant Brexiter, so to speak. But there's also a school of thought which says that Brexit is a good thing because the future Labour government has the possibility to bring about some more radical reforms which can actually reverse or at least for a short while at least block the neoliberal onslaught. So do you see that possibility happening? Well, I think Jeremy, I'm not sure there's a reluctant remainder or a reluctant lever. So I would let that stand because I think his pre-election would be to have a Brexit, but he doesn't want to go with the Theresa Mays of the world today or with Boris Johnson's earlier. So he sort of therefore making it a more Labour policy than his policy. I think this fracturing as I was talking about Brexit, really fractures both the Conservative Party and the Labour Party. The Conservative Party first because bulk of them chose to talk about leaving the European Union while the initial vote by the Prime Minister at that time was in the belief that he would win the vote and therefore he could silence a section of his own party. Now having failed in that and having brought on the Brexit on the Conservative Party, the Conservative Party is split, the Labour Party is also split on this and I think the left, as I said, is also split on this issue. I would say that if we look at it that what is the best course of action for Labour, it is that they don't support either Brexit or this kind of Brexit which Theresa May had put forward. They say Brexit should take place on ABC other terms so that they can say we really didn't want it. You guys wanted Brexit but if you want Brexit then it should be on certain terms which you didn't get. You're incompetent. Now that you've got us Brexit let us run with whatever we have. So sort of condemn the Conservative Party for this massive Brexit which is what seems to be in the offing and then say well we have to therefore now put the house back. You've sort of scattered the bricks, knocked down the walls, let's build it back and we can't build it under your leadership. So try and sort of play both sides of the divide as it were and if you have an astute politician like Jeremy Corbyn which he certainly has proved himself to be, I think he would play that role that let's not talk about now about what could have been. Let's see how to go forward and what's the best way forward but not reopen the debate about another Brexit vote which is you know then no referendum would have really any meaning. And another interesting argument of course that is being raised is that Brexit is problematic because of course the right wing was in the leadership of the movement and right wing movements everywhere across Europe are skeptical of the European Union. So there is also a tendency to see say a pro-European union stand as some sort of countering the right. So that's also an equally problematic argument if you will. Well you know there is an element of truth in it that after all the hard right in most places are asserting the ethno-nationalist identities and therefore they are very anti-European union as well. So that is true and that's why I said between the hard right and the poor left forces who represent the poor there is one commonality that if you have a European union of this kind which is really say led by finance capital takes away labor's rights workers' rights various rights of the people under the guise that free economy means competition if you have competition that these these kinds of rights should not exist and public sector should be disbandled in various ways you had from the telecommunications to the electricity grid a lot of the things that happened happened the name of the European so-called market. So this kind of things obviously is something that left is also very unhappy with. So yes certain common points yes but the answer at the end of it is political that is it that you have the political strength within the European union to defeat the right wing forces as well as advance the cause of the workers and the working people or is it that if the European union breaks then your ability to find the right and advance the working people's rights would be strengthened. This is a political call this is really not a philosophical or a economic call and I would say that that is also one of the reasons that you have so much differences within the left because each section of the left sees the resolution of the problem in a different way and they believe that some believe if you stay within the European union the fight is easier some say if we leave the European union the fight will be easier so I think that's where at the moment it rests but in a European union had this whole idea that they could build a counter power a financial power as with respect to the dollar and they thought that if you have this financial power they would be a player. What has come down right now too is the military power is still the dominant currency of power and Trump has proved to much weaker American economy as compared to for instance the Chinese economy which is developing or the European union it doesn't really make that much difference. Sure fact that the Trump that the United States is the dominant military power means it has a much bigger role in even the economic sphere and therefore the talk about threats of economic war trade wars telling European Union you anti up for NATO's defense but the fact is Europe defense budget for NATO is much higher than Russia's while the enemy is supposed to be Russia against whom the United States is supposedly protecting them so all of this means that the currency of political power does translate to the currency of financial and economic power as well and this is where waning United States economically should not be written off as a lot of people have been doing saying that the United States is a failed hegemon it's no longer the dominant superpower in the world which is true but its relationship between the European Union and the United States shows that European Union could also not assert itself vis-à-vis the United States economically so its only assertion was really against its own people and its workers and its poor and that's what is finally also the cause of the crisis of the European Union today. Thank you Pappu. That's all we have time for today. Keep watching Newsweek.