 Today I am standing as a mother, a wife, a friend. Today I lost someone, very dear to me, raped by eight men, killed, beat yourself to a kiss, for crying out loud. Have we done to you, this government? I say to good luck, Jonathan Abelli. Thank you for being a good man. It is now, we are realizing, that you are such a very nice honest man. Thank you, good luck, Jonathan Abelli. Tomorrow if you come up, we will vote you. BAPAA, YOU ARE THE ONE. I say to good luck, Jonathan Abelli. Thank you for being a good man. It is now, we are realizing, that you are such a very nice honest man. Thank you, good luck, Jonathan Abelli. Tomorrow if you come up, we will vote you. నికికికికికికికికికికికికికికికికికికికికికికికికికికికికికికికికికికికికికికికికికికికికికికికికికికికికికికిక some of the protestors who came in large number, no fewer than five protestors and two journalists were arrested. The protesters under the ages of the north-south alliance and take-it-back movement converged on the medical and health union secretariat in Abuja. The labor leaders to join in the campaign in demanding an end to the killing by bandits. We have joining us this morning two gentlemen, one from Kaduna, Mustafa Bulama, a journalist and editorial cartoonist or the Daily Trust newspaper. Thank you Mustafa for joining us. Alright, we also have Ibrahim Hussein Abdul Karim, he's the MD, AZGIS Limited. He is joining us via Zoom from Abuja. Let me start with you Mustafa. The secure north is bleeding protest that started sometime on Wednesday and lots of people were reportedly arrested and journalists too were also arrested in the process. Can you give us a background on what really happened at that particular protest? Mustafa, can you hear us? Alright, let's bring Ibrahim Hussein Abdul Karim, he's the MD, AZGIS Limited from Zoom. Ibrahim, can you hear us? Alright, let's talk about this killing. It's been going on for quite some time now. Indeed, if you check the pages of newspapers this morning, what you see is a banditry insurgency. And we even hear that farmers are even paying to harvest jack crops in some parts of the north. What's the situation and what exactly are your thoughts concerning all of that? The situation is really pathetic. There is nobody that will think of by the start of the year or by the start of the moment in the first century. And I would think this low at the moment that we see that the best thing that we can have is democracy, people for government for the people. And there's a moment that we see government supposed to be more close to people than before. This kind of system to now perhaps like this in front of everybody with all the structures that we have. I think it's a failure that comes from the weak institutions that we have. At least we at least have started eroding and then everybody feels it's comfortable, everybody sees it's okay. If you have your money, you just pick your children and take them abroad. You are safe, you are abroad. If you have everything, you just allow the whole system to keep on decay. So I think what really happened is that some of the institutions like the religious institutions are left out of the system, the traditional caste system are not performing anything. They don't even have a role in their constitution or what this has to do. So I think this is what really creates that vehicle. And then the level of education that was dropping and the elementary issue is coming up everywhere. And then where it starts with the IVPs and people are seeing the bombs coming up and then people are losing their families. Nobody thought of to put up a solution, something to now fight over and do a projection. If we have this number of people outside not doing anything, definitely something is going to come up in the next five years, the next thing. Or because actually we have leadership and the system that people are not solving problems. If you can look at Nigeria, for example, it's just like a Lagos. A Lagos having a build-up since 1970 is 1970, 1980 is up to today. We have the same problem with Lagos. If you look at the ASU that will not strike today or tomorrow. If you read out what they are saying and what they want, why they want to strike. And you pick up a newspaper of 1980s and then the 90s and read what why ASU are going to strike. It's the same thing that they are complaining. The same enable all structure. So actually I think we so much relaxed and then we turn our political system not to look for people that have competence. We are just looking for people that belongs to our tribe and people that belongs to our religion and other things like that. So to lack of that nationalistic ideologies and then vision and mission for a nation to move forward really kill everything. So when people reach a level that they don't have anything as hope for them to what they will do, then they will solve health. And then the issue of the bandit religious are escalated because the people that are in charge of what they are supposed to do are not taking care of. The masses, for example, there is different between ruling and leadership. Leadership is used to lead people to exactly why you want them to go, why they want to go to. But in the government that we have after the previous government, at least the input of any energy, any relationship between them and the people so that they can secure the whole system. And then up here in the north, I think we have a lot of decay not only in terms of a security issue only but our moral values drop seriously down and we allow everything to go. And then we start to realize that now we have already shot ourselves with the foot. If you see the people are marrobing and killing people in the name of this bandit, they are northerners. They are people from maybe the same tribe or same religion with the people that are killing and also forward really are killing the poor in the north. So the killing is something that is very horrific. And nobody will understand it unless when you are staying here on the north. There is no any family in the north that is not affected with this banditry and this crime. Because these criminals, some of them are collecting rams on maybe they are doing it for some gain. Some are just going into villages and just kill people. If you even ask them why they even killing people and burning their families and just like that, there is no even any answer to that. So this is the highest level of terrorism. This is the anything that you can think of that how can a human being go to this loop. So I always tell people that when we started the hashtag still north, we realized that we just have to come together. We have a movement that will come together. So we actually calling people to come together and let's do it ourselves. We don't have to rely on the government to do everything for us we suppose to partner. We are government. We are the one that will give the legitimate people any government to work. And we can even withdraw our legitimacy if we feel the government is knocking because the ultimate goal for any government is for them to protect lives and property. So I think that we have to go beyond the hashtag. The hashtag and protest is just for us to register our grievances. But we have to organize our people. We have to find a way where we can make our system work, make the north work because it's not pulling the whole nation down. Not really because they don't know what to do but because they don't have leadership. They don't have leadership from their houses. They don't have leadership from their immediate community and they don't have leadership in their schools. And then drugs have already entered everywhere and then we are facing the price now and we are suffering from what we have created and the most that we have created ourselves. All right, let's see if we can bring Mustafa Bulma. Mustafa, can you hear us? Hello Mustafa. Okay, so I probably just, you know, change the question then to you back now. Now there are some quotas that are saying following the protest that's happened. I mean, that's the hashtag as much as you're saying that we need to move beyond the hashtag. But of course you would also want to agree with me that protest is a tool that has been used by different climes and people in different countries to demand from the government good governance and what have you. The lease will be endless. Now, some people are saying that the north is secure, that everything is perfect. I mean, the president has provided so much security and all of that that this could just be, you know, elements, some persons who are trying to run down the administration of president Mohammed Buhari. I'd like to find out from you. Yeah, you leave in that particular axis and I'm sure that you are in tune with what's going on. What is the situation with or not? Is it secure? Is it safe? What is going on? True picture of it. Far, far, far away from that nobody was said to not secure. There is nobody in the north being a governor, being a businessman, being just a local person driving your car, being one of the lowest of the lowest of the society. Nobody, even the traditional council leaders are being kidnapped. Nobody will tell you that they are not secure. There is nobody. Even the people that are in government, none of them can comment on television and tell you that they are not secure. They knew that they were in trouble and that it's not secure. But let me just address a little bit. It's the system that they have created and all the insecurity we have seen. No matter how government wants to solve the problem, they need the buy-in of the people. And they cannot buy, get that buy-in from people unless the government shows it on the side of the government, show empathy, talk to people, bring them closer, tell them what you are doing. Because the people are the ones that are supposed to give you the intel that you need for you to take care of the problem that we see and the flow. So government alone cannot work, government has to work with the people. Those people must get that confidence from government because if you now tell government that this person that I know in my area is a bandit, for example, or he belongs to a social place, then the guy who holds maybe will come, arrest the person. In two days, three days, you have to see that person out of the, out of the government decision. So immediately he comes, first the first person that he is going to attack is what? He is going to attack that person that reported him. So people are not willing to give because there is not any custody protection for anybody that is giving information to like being an informal government. So out of that one, then these people are not being, when we started in Kathina, for example, in the early days, during the of this project, secretary issues and things like that, that started to come up, there is nobody that is being punished. There is no system that is put in place to stop that and it's continued from Kathina to Jaws to Theraba to a lot of places having the small sectorist problem and then people start to excite, people start to align themselves with their tribe and then nobody is seen it as a danger. If people are fighting of tribe for a very long time, you will be actually that one day they will start to fight on their religious lines and once they started, the whole system will break down on them. Actives always tell people what I'm talking about. Justice and peace, just like twins brothers or twin sisters, they live and work and act together. Any place you see justice, you always see peace. And then without justice and peace, you cannot get prosperity. What we miss in this nation is that we don't have that clear vision of people that will understand that there is a problem. If you accept the problem, if you go on television and say there is no problem in the north and the north is secured, that means you are seriously undermining exactly what is happening. If you fail, you can fail as a leader. All right, thank you, Brahim. We will still get back to you on turning all of those issues that you have raised. But let's bring Mustafa Bullam right now. Mustafa, you are in Kaduna State. Can you bring us up to speed concerning the issues in Niger State? We here report from Bandit's collecting levies. Then there's been several attacks along the Kaduna-Abuja expressway. What exactly is going on right now? Are the protests also holding in Kaduna? All right, thank you for having me. The problem I think we are having here is the fact that the D.S.S. people coming out to intimidate people. Police are coming with these people. What we call the D.S.S. addition statement telling people to be careful what they say to do this. These are not the issues that itself, you know, aid. People in Nigeria have the right to come out and express that when they are being hurt or something like that the constitution of the Federal Ministry has given us the right to test, right? So now I hear people are coming out to protest in Kaduna and the D.S.S. are running them up. That's what people are afraid. So should we be afraid of the crimes, the terror that is happening to us or should we be afraid of the people that are supposed to protect us? People are afraid to come out to Kaduna in the D.S.S. Yes, because these are the kind of issues that are happening. Just yesterday or the day before yesterday Kaduna to Zaire Road. So people were adopted, what you call, a member of the House of Assembly here in Kaduna were killed, you know, and we held the case of Abudia to, what you call, Kaduna to Abudia Road every time they have abduction and all of that. You go to Kaduna, it's trouble, go to this rural community, they are in so called everywhere. And then somebody comes from somewhere and tells you that NOB is secure. I don't think there is anything like that. Everybody tells you that even if you are outside the country, just continue and see what is happening. Straight away and you can understand what I am telling you. Alright, to Mustafa. Well, just like my colleague has actually said, we are hoping to get an update of what really transpired in that protest that happened. Do you have an idea what happened? We hear that, you know, protesters were arrested and there were different men handling by, you know, DSS and police officers. Well, I don't know, I wasn't at the protest, but what I wrote for sure is that people are getting tired. I think that the government stands up and actually is something really tangible. This may get out of control. And we hope it doesn't because when people are suffering from poverty and then there is also insecurity, you know, and allow these people to come out to express themselves. I get out of hand because especially when you try to resist or you try to tell them not to talk, in outside the world you say that somebody will beat you up and stop you from crying. You tell you not to cry, you know. So I think people need to be pacified and then also stand up and do what is right because we can't continue like this, you know. We started talking about the QNR last year in October. We came out to people protest and then some good looks were sent from and struck the protest, either the protest. Fortunately for us, we were able to get a win of that. So we decided not to continue with the protest. But this is how it has been happening. A coalition of Northern groups in what we call a meeting to discuss the security in Northern Nigeria at Arirau House. So where Arirau House is, it's a prestigious place of honour and all of that. People, responsible people were invited but you know what happened? They sent hoodlums to attack us there. This was not even a protest. It was a meeting. So who sent hoodlums to attack you at your meeting? You know, people were actually attacking Arirau House. We had to find some people who were jumping out of India and they destroyed the hoodlums. So at the end of it, I said sometimes there are people who are happy with the situation. Why would they send somebody attack us during a meeting? Traditional women were invited from a village. People were invited for that meeting. And some useless somebody gathered some hoodlums to attack us there at Arirau House. All right, Mostafa. Let's bring Ibrahim once again into this conversation. Ibrahim, from what you have said when you gave a bit of an analysis, you talked about organizing your people to make the North great. You also talked about the issue of leadership. So in all of these, lots of statements have come out concerning that the federal government said that insurgency terrorism won't disappear overnight and they also said that government is working hard to tackle the issue of insecurity. Is it a thing of government are not really having control of this issue of security despite what they are saying or just that they don't really have the will power to do what is required? I think they are a little bit confused because they supposed to realize that there is a people that will help them to end the insecurity. And if you are grandstanding and if you are denying and if you are telling Nigerians what they don't want to hear or telling the people that you are supposed to kill you are not going in the same direction with them then you have a problem. What you suppose is you accept the fault that yes, we are trying our best but this is our limitation and we want you people to assess us in one, two, three and four things because if you put everything in secrecy then the people are not understanding what you are doing and what you are bringing then they get agitated then they get that direct sentiment will start to now setting and they start to hit the government and if people hit the government then you are adding to the problem and you are not making any solution so what I am saying is that if they said they are doing what they are supposed to be doing as I am calling them to look inward look at the people where these people can vent their anger as Mr Paa is saying if you restrict people even not to vent their anger you are adding to the problem because that is the feedback you are getting if they are up on the street protesting protesting is that telling you that you have missed what you said you are doing we are not seeing what you are doing is for the government to look at it dialogue with them give them their own tax for example if to say today I am somebody in the part of that leadership that they are saying what I will do is that all these groups that are now planning to go on because I was in a meeting yesterday and they are proposing to go in a bigger motion of the skill not hatch that which they are planning to do a bigger one what they are saying in the meeting is a public something I don't think it's something that is a secret for them it's open they are calling their men because this pigment and the people in the government are using these roads that people are being kidnapped every day why not shut down the railway station and then shut down the airports so that anybody that is going anywhere he wants to go to let him use that same road because if they are using the same road that the other engineers are using then they must skill that place that people are going so if the North really want to we want the North to be skilled we have to talk to them in the language they understand I think protest is one of the language this government really understand even though they use the talks and then they use everything to bring but we think that even these talks that they are bringing we are more closer to the talks than even the government so we can talk to them because we are all in this together if we give them drugs and everything that's the way we can talk to them we can get out our old men we can get out our old women we can get out our destitute we can sit down in the wrong way we can sit down in the wrong way so that everybody that is going for quality let him use that even if you are going for anything you are going for a wedding you are going to take a go to the road from here to Sokoto so that you can feel what other engineers are feeling and those people that are being kidnapped start feeling the same thing they are feeling these boys are going to grow bigger they are going to grow because this North is not skilled and they are tired so the government has to do something new which we are not seeing anything coming out from the government that is new they just condemn any killing they just send delegation they even present themselves that he is supposed to be in charge of the nation it's not taking some engineers people don't vote in his assets they don't vote in his ministers they voted in General Muhammad Bawair as a president I think for empathy he is supposed to directly talk to engineers at least every day he can do it he is a president he can talk to them in the morning he can talk to them in the evening us and we together we are trying to convince and talk to almost all the other groups so that at least the protest and what we are planning to do is not going to go out of hand and somebody has to take responsibility we don't want it to be like NSAS that it come and destroy a lot of people we want it to be something that is well coordinated something with leadership and the people is supposed to relate and if you want something on the street the idea is that we are going to give the government the comfort that the skill not protest is not going to be something that is going to cause too much trouble to the country but it's something that at least we have to voice out we have to voice out what is happening and talk to the whole world to understand the problems here in the north and then we see how we will work together to see how we can secure the north let's bring in Mustafa Bulama he has mentioned the president in the course of this conversation and you still also have some quarters saying that the reason why insecurity is persisting in Nigeria and mostly in the north is because of the body language of Mr President now if you want to agree with me the federal government however you want to put it we have identified those who are sponsoring terrorist group in Nigeria we have identified sponsors they have also agreed to the fact that the Niger state government saying yes we have also agreed to the fact that bandits are collecting taxes from the people so do you agree with the school of thought saying that the body language of Mr President is responsible for the current security challenges that were faced with in Nigeria yeah I think there is a bit of truth that because you see if you have to be killed you have community ravaged people destroyed all you see let's say for example is certainly being in Koto between the month of Uba and the Zerba over 100 people have been killed in Tokoto in October over 40 people were killed in November over 43 were killed then recently with the passenger that were attacked were talking about some are saying to answer I think three some are saying who 42 understand people who have been killed in Sokoto now in October if presidents did not come out address the people of Sokoto he did not go to Sokoto he did not go to Sokoto in November not go to Sokoto in December but we are seeing the president going for a good lunch in Lagos he is going for a launching of another who is trying after all these things he still didn't go to Sokoto and in the midst of this while we are talking about this what we call it in Niger 15 worshipers were going down in the mosque they were praying they were there and killed these people in the same location they did that in November so twice I see people in northern night especially in rural communities they listen to radio a lot they listen to big house and they listen to house society and all of that why would he take the presidents or his advisors or whatever take the BBC and do the president talk to people in the language they wouldn't understand outside language they wouldn't understand Mustafa I am sorry I have the coming at this point I want to understand how the presidents visiting this community would solve the problem of insecurity in Nigeria you are saying the president needs to go there speak to the people how does that translate because the issue of saying we have identified those who are sponsoring bandits let's not forget that lawmakers actually called we need to prescribe this group of peasants a terrorist and that has not happened and if we have identified those who are sponsoring what are we doing about that so is it about the president visiting these places or it's about the president being that he controls the security architecture I mean it's within the federal it's within the exclusive list so is it about the visiting or taking proactive actions let's see arrests let's see peasants prosecuted if we have people who are sponsoring if we know that bandits are already paying taxes and they are paying and we are agreeing to it so it means we know where they are we know who these people are how come we have not had peasants arrested and prosecuted what is going on so I don't understand when you say that the president needs to visit does visiting really translate into and putting an end to all of this insecurity consent alright let me give the right answer now see there are two things the issue of if this particular inconvenient we are having is not something you go on you know you switch it off like you turn off the light or something I thought if something the government has to fight and if something that it's going to take a long time but why the government is doing that also needs to be assured it's people that this is what it's doing it needs to show empathy to the victims it needs concern to the people now holding back the issue of the people and the sponsors that are being identified and all of that yes that's also another issue how can you comment and tell us you have unidentified these people or you know the people that are sponsoring and yet you don't tell them about it so it still comes down to the issue of the burden that we are talking about okay if you know these people you have identified them why are we not seen arrested right I remember they were talking about this they said okay they cannot attack because the condition is that only you need to attack but now the court has ruled that these people are terrible so get to work what we are concerned about nobody is terrible any other or any political whatever they want the issue is and this needs to stop right this and the people that are they are not arresting what are they telling us if they are identifying groups and we are not seen arrested not seen question what are you telling the people and this is why people keep feeling that the government not seen enough alright thank you most of all let's have the final word from Ibrahim Hussein Abdul Karim as we round off on this discussion most of all has said he is on point of view but you know in all of this now what do we expect to see in the coming days from the secure north north is bleeding and hashtag are we seeing more protest and are you going beyond protest or what exactly you know is in the offing we are going to see more and more protest because protest is just asking questions I think we are going to force it online I want to protest underground we are going to organize seminars we are going to organize some meetings we are going to do a lot of things that will help to see when we get to the end of this problem because we cannot normalize there is no other place in the world that somebody or the government will normalize insecurity or normalize we have to talk about it our traditional council system has to talk about it our religious leaders has to talk about it then anybody that feels that has something to offer must talk about it we have to start to talk it because we have to organize our people we don't want it to be something that is out of hand something that we cannot control we have another hashtag we are going to use what else at least we organize that activity in a way I think we have some small meetings in the smaller groups and then we are going to move that meetings to a bigger larger forum we have to talk about it and we have to make sure that we secure we secure the country and also to make sure that we have a very good 2022 because in the election a year to election we are going to have more violence than what we have seen alright very big thank you to you Ibrahim Huzain Abdel Karim MDE ZGIS limited Abuja and of course also to Mustafa Abola my editorial cartoonist daily trust the gentleman both joined us to discuss the issue of security in the north indeed the north the entire Nigeria needs to be secured in the moment when we come back from this quick break we will be talking about the gender opportunities bill in the moment to join us again