 And we can just go ahead. Raghav, if you have any particular question, oh, Kara's arriving. Let her drive. Hello. Hi. Hello, Raghav. Hello, everyone. Hello, thank you for joining us. I'm going to start recording. Oh, recording has already started. Excellent. OK, thank you very much, Mark. That is very good. You're on before me. Great. Welcome to today's GSOC meeting. We're very excited about GSOC. All our proposed ideas have been moved to acceptance date, which in practice, they were already in. But it's very good to keep that in line with previous practices. And as most of you probably know, we've submitted our GSOC org application as part of the CDF. So that's all gone in. It's all good. We shall hear back March 9th. So that's really exciting times. And today, really, we're here to answer questions from students and mentors. So there's no outstanding admin or business things to do from my side. It's really just an open forum for you all to ask questions about Jenkins, about getting started with Jenkins, about open source, about the community, about GSOC, anything you like. So I did propose. And a new idea is in as a draft. And I'm happy to discuss with any of the students if they'd like to talk further about what that draft might mean. We had one student that was previously asking questions about the specific tool that is proposed in that. And they were doing some exploring with it. So it's a different idea using a similar tool that they'd used before. Excellent. Well, I would like to hear more about it. Would you like to share your screen and speak to it? Oh, sure. You bet. Yeah. So the tool is, let's see, sharing screen. And it'll be just a minute while I get screen dragged in. OK, here we go. So the idea is that we would improve the pipeline steps doc generator itself. Oh, and I've gone to the wrong place just a minute. Need to find the, you know. While you're doing that, what I'll say is I love that you have done another project idea proposal. And I think this is a really great illustration of the idea that anyone can still make project proposal. So even though we have submitted our application, we are still open for project proposals. That just creates more variety for students to choose from, more engagement. We welcome new mentors and we welcome more project ideas. Right. Thank you. Yeah, good. So this idea is that the experience for a user who is reading pipeline step documentation is particularly poor on certain pages. And the one example is the checkout documentation. The other is the properties documentation that are just enormous pages with expanding and contracting sections. And this is generated from code. And since it is generated from code, it seems like a viable project for someone to find a better way to write that code so that instead of one single monster page for checkout, we would have many smaller pages. Now there's a transition challenge there and that we don't want to break hyperlinks. We have several different things that need to be considered that make the project interesting and challenging in addition to the design part and how should the UI feel and how should the web page layout. So the other suggestion here was that we get lots of questions or comments in our documentation that seem to indicate the users don't realize that the pipeline syntax snippet generator is very, very good at generating syntax examples. And so it may be that we would like something in this tool that automatically, if the dock is empty, automatically includes some boilerplate text to encourage people to use the pipeline syntax snippet generator. That's really the extent of the idea. The tool is useful, interesting. It's actually a Jenkins plug-in loader and makes it kind of cool. Yeah, thank you for sharing. That's a really interesting project idea. And one of the things that I find really appealing about it is we may indeed get more involvement from people who are already involved in the Jenkins Doxig, which Mark is very involved in. So that would be really nice. We want to open up GSOC to as many people from as many routes as possible. I really like this project idea. Thank you. And I'll stop sharing. So that was all I had on that topic. With the three students we've got and the one potential mentor, any other questions? Mark, are you still looking for mentors on that project? We could. It would benefit to have at least one more. Kristen is willing to mentor, but she's also offered to mentor other projects. So it's Java code. And it would do well if they had some JavaScript background or some doc site, so Jenkins.io background as well. But yeah, I would love to have additional mentors. Yeah, you can tend to be at me there. So yeah, Dr. Paskapovic said that you are finally there. I would like to be a mentor in GSOC. Well, I always wanted to. But yeah, now that regardless of other states, I will. Great. Since I detected an error in the page anyway, I need to submit a correction to that page. So Oleg, I'll add you in that same correction pull request. There's a little bit of embarrassing ASCII doc mistake on that page that I need to fix. So I'll get that fixed and include you as a potential mentor in that same pull request. All right. And yeah, if CDF needs SORC, it means I'm available to share expertise like in previous years. But yeah. I am sure your expertise will be very much appreciated. Yes, I think we're at the limit of five organ admins. But I think the level of time commitment maybe varies between them. So we can raise up. And in the case, I'm sure everyone will be very happy to have your expertise, Oleg. So thank you. That's awesome. One of the things that I will ask GSOC, because I have been mulling this potential, is for this round of GSOC this year, they are allowing applicants who are maybe not in a formal academic program of study. My understanding is that they are opening it up to individuals who have also gone to a bootcamp. Although it may have to be an accredited bootcamp. But I would love to find out if things like the bootcamp that is running in Africa and is very involved in with Chicots Africa. And I'm wondering if that would maybe qualify. And we could maybe find students and mentors there. I think that'd be a really interesting collaboration. But it is something that I need to ask you to talk about. Because that's a change in the rules for this year. So yeah, in our case, collaboration with any other project or open source organization is definitely beneficial. We have experience from past years, like Jenkins X, FOSSE, other organizations. So if you could do the same level, the same of the CDF level, why not? Yeah. Well, and there is discussion that there may be collaboration with the Tecton group at CDF, or the Tecton client plug-in right, and others. So I think, good, that sounds great. Yes, yes, that would be very good too. We shall see how that plays out. But yes, it's potential. Do we have any additional or any questions either on this project or any other questions from our students and mentors on the call? Hello, everyone. Hello, Vimanshu. Welcome. Thank you. I have a question regarding that plug-in and solution manager, that project idea. In last meeting, Ulik said that he'll go to the project idea website and maybe add some or do some changes on that. I want to ask, did he do those changes? Because I followed that website, but wasn't able to find any change. No, I didn't. I made changes locally. But I believe that I haven't submitted a pull request. So OK, we'll do it today. Would it be worth having you describe verbally the kinds of changes you're envisioning there, Ulik, so that they might be able to ask questions? Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, thanks, Mark. Yeah, there were several major changes. Firstly, in terms of how the plug-in and solution manager is organized. And secondly, there were a lot of stabilization work and adoption work. Still, if you take a look at the code, there is a lot of low-hanging truth there. For example, error propagation, also logging, because these tasks have been identified as something we need to do. So these are tasks you can take a look at at the moment. And for improvement perspectives, we have a lot of items we could improve in terms of upgrade management. So for example, how you update plugins, how you verify update centers, how you manage mirrors, there is a lot of options you can add. And also, there are some differences between the plug-in and solution manager and the previous scripts. Because previous scripts used to use system tools, for example, for downloading plugins. And these system tools, for example, used the system configuration of proxy settings. And when we started switching to the plug-in installation manager tool, it appeared that some of these advanced options do not work, because they have never been fully documented. They just work because you can't do the operating system. So one of the potential subjects for discovery and then for improving it is, how would you use plug-in installation managers in these enterprise use cases? Ensuring that you can configure proxy settings, download retries, maybe that you can better verify plug-in consistency on download. For example, today we blocked one plug-in on the update center because it was not HPI file, but it was a public text file downloaded with the HPI extension. And I'm pretty sure that plug-in installation manager on this case would fail this, would have a crappy exception. So just looking at it and basically improving behavior in various HPI cases, something one could do. Well, and we've certainly had questions from users of plug-in installation manager related to the retry logic that you mentioned. Because today it doesn't do retries, right? And there are times when a mirror, oh, it does, OK. It just doesn't do it well. Ah, I see, OK. But I know we've had cases where one or more of the mirrors were behaving badly or erratically. And we would get reports from users, hey, my plug-in installation manager call failed. Yeah, so it was a case before also. So yeah, even with scripts, sometimes when you build your image, it may fail. But obviously, improving the situation by additional checks and failover, maybe, somehow contacting the mirrors directly if the main update center is not available, is something you could do. OK, then like R. OK, sorry. Yeah, continue. Sorry, sir. Continue. Another item you may want to consider is working with non-standard update centers. Because yeah, we have Jenkins Update Center and there are other update centers. So for example, there is a project called Update Center 2 in Jenkins infrastructure, which you can build and deploy your own update center. There is also Giuseppe project in Jenkins organization, which is embedded update center. Some vendors provide custom update centers. So for example, CloudVis offers custom update centers and its products. And all these update centers, plug-in installation manager behaves slightly differently. Because sometimes it collects information, et cetera, and improving test coverage and adding support for other update centers is also something that we could do. OK, thank you so much. Like previously, when I was exploring this project, I did not look into the update center part that much. But now you have mentioned it so well. I'll go into that. And there is one more part about that. JCask, like integration with JCask. So we are going to focus on that for this year. Why not? It's still a valid feature request. For example, exporting a plug-in list in YAML and being able to handle this YAML file and plug-in installation manager. So now would that then be an enhancement to JCask and to the configuration as code plug-in and to plug-in installation manager? Is that how that would work? OK, so what's the date? What was the original vision for that? JCask is basically a tool which exports system configuration and also exports plug-in information, another information needed for plug-in installation manager to operate. But then a plug-in installation manager on Startup can read the same Jenkins YAML and extract plug-in list from there and install them. And then you basically have two options. One option is to do it during the build time. Another option is to do it during runtime. So we'll maybe even discuss about including plug-in installation manager into the Jenkins core. Obviously, it's not going to happen anytime soon. But at least we could prepare a configuration so that the tool can consume it. OK, all right. I'll look into everything that you mentioned. I'll have to go through this video once more, like note down everything. Thank you. Thank you for the information. I should have the command to do it. Thank you for your question. Hi, everyone. I have two questions, actually. Hi, Mark. Hi, everyone. So my first question is that what is the process for a potential mentor to become a mentor if there is a process, if there exists a process for that? And the second question is that what are the responsibilities for a potential mentor before the submission of a student application? And should I refer to the doc which was designed for GSOC 2020 for the mentors for that? That's my question. Those are my questions. You can follow this process. There will be some differences because, again, there will be another GSOC organization this year. But in terms of getting in touch with the community, 2,020 docs is totally applicable. Also, there is a page at Jenkins.io slash projects slash GSOC slash mentors. So the one which was posted back here. There is also a lot of information there. This information remains mostly relevant. Yeah, there are some changes in terms of because of the changes in the GSOC program. But all main steps remain the same. It's just both. All right. Well, and I assume that in terms of offering to mentor multiple project ideas, all you do is submit a pull request to Jenkins.io, adding your name to those project ideas. Is that I think? It's also in the list. Oh, right. That's part of the document, right? Well, so the main need is not to submit a list, but to be actually active in the project idea channels. Because there are already students reaching out and asking questions. If CDF gets accepted, hopefully it will, then there will be even the most students. And the most critical part at the moment is to actually guide the students and help them to process project ideas and to come up with actual proposals. And this is why we need mentors. And that's a great example of Rishabh, where you and I are almost 12 hours apart from each other. So we have nearly 24-hour-a-day coverage. I actually get to sleep, and you get to sleep. So it's a big win for both of us. And for Kara, who is six hours offset from the two of us. So the globe covered. Exactly. We need somebody in Australia still. Well, you can invite Bruno. He's in New Zealand. Close enough. Yeah. We definitely welcome additional mentors. And the more mentors, the more engagement for students, but also the more flexibility for the mentors who are involved. So it's easier to cover if people need to take weeks off for their own lives. So that's quite nice. And also the reduced hours of GSOC this summer will mean in all likelihood, students will be producing slightly smaller projects. And we expect that and slightly less codes. The less code reviews, but none the less students will need to be guided and supported on their journey, both in open source and with Jenkins and with their specific projects. So yeah. Any other questions? I guess we're just all waiting with fingers crossed. I owe an expression of gratitude to Ayan Goel for contributions already made to the Get Client plug-in test transformation. We've had a test transformation project that Rishabh helped start 18 months ago, Rishabh, that we've been working. And it had paused and had no traction. Ayan has helped it restart. Thank you very much. And I assume that the experience is positive for Ayan. But if there's feedback you want to give there, you're welcome to give it. And here is fine saying, hey, Mark, you're being too rude. Or Mark, you're not being considerate enough, et cetera. Those are all good things to hear. Thank you, Mark. Actually, that project was very, I can't, I actually prefer Java projects. And I was at the start anxious to work on Jenkins. Like Jenkins is such an organization. We all have here. If we have not used Jenkins, still we know what Jenkins is. And ultimately, finding such an issue, I started looking. And it took me some days. But ultimately, with your guidance, and the project was like, I learned so much about testing and using JUnit on Java. It actually helped me understand the whole Get Client plug-in and the Get Plug-in also. And by which I would also able to understand the idea somewhat. I still lag behind some ways on the Get Binding's idea. And I'm still exploring about it. But I would say testing and using the test are very much important in understanding code based for any project. And like you said, Mark, you were not rude at all. All your points and all your comments were highly appreciated. Actually, I would say it made me a better programmer. Great. Super. And there's still lots of work to do on that. And Ayan, you are not expected to do all of it. Just it's good to get some experience. And then you can look at other things. I assume that's part of the experience here for you as students is that you explore a little bit of several different areas and explore intentionally, knowing that you're not going to do deeply until you're ready to submit a project proposal. Indeed, that's a great way for students to explore what they would be interested in working on and to be learning the whole time. So excellent. Any other questions, topics for discussion for today? OK, Sagar has a question in the chat. Yes. Yeah, I also have a question about the Google Season of Docs section. So how do we want to organize it this year? Would it be GSoxic, or would it be Advocacy and outreach, or would it be somewhere on the CDF level? Yeah, so how about it? Let's take Sagar's question first and then we'll come back to your question, Oleg, if that's OK. Yeah, that's perfectly fine. OK, Sagar's question is actually, it's just a very nice comment, but there may be an implicit question following. I uploaded my Jenkins on remote server on Cloud Ocean and Containerwise with Docker. That was a nice experience. Excellent. So was that using DigitalOcean, which I am curious, which providers you're using, because we've had promotional offers from various cloud providers. Amazon has an initiative. Google has one. We just I just heard about DigitalOcean's offering recently, and I know Oracle has one. So several of the cloud providers offer free first month kind of experiences where they'll give you a certain amount of hours or a certain amount of dollars. Was that where it was, Sagar? OK, so use the credits. Good. All right, very good. So next topic then, should we take on Oleg's question about Google's season of docs? So that one's a little scary for me, because it's due March 24th. So we've only we've got less than a month now to get our submission ready. And my intent was to do a sorry, to do a pull request to the to really basically reuse 2020's pattern in 2021, even though they've got a different thing different. There are some changes in their processing, the changes in the processing that most worry Oleg actually are related to governance and finances. They use a different financial technique where the project hires the writer and pays the writer and Google gives money to the project. And that's when I'm not sure how to make it work. Yeah, so regarding that, there are two news. Firstly, good news. As long as it's considered as sponsorship slash stipend, one time one, we can just use community bridge. But community bridge cannot be used to pay salaries. So depending on the country legislation, the GSOC program maybe can sit there in different way. So whether it's legal or not. So for example, in the United States, when you go to GSOC, you may need to get permission from the university so that it can't sit at the program, especially if you're a foreign student. And in such case, it might be a problem to pay the stipend from community bridge. But for the majority of countries, we should be able to do that. Okay, and so my next steps there are, is this something I need to bring to the governance board by email? What steps should I take so that I have the best chance of making this work in time for our application to Google season of docs? Okay, so application, we should be fine. Oh, okay. What? The financial part does not have to, the stipend part does not have to all be in place in time for the application. So we have financial part in place for supporting that. Okay. So what we will need to check is eligibility of particular students when they apply. I see. And yeah, for example, yeah, it's basically becomes our responsibility as well. And there are two ways. Firstly, we accept the student. Well, we need to clear the financial side before we accept the student. Okay. That's it. Great. Okay. So regarding the documentation, one we created last year should be relevant enough. It's not as expensive as GSOC, but it was good enough for the application. We just can keep it as is. The main problem is again, project ideas. And those were discussing in the docs special interest group and the office hours for docs. So the Monday afternoon, okay, Monday, late European time and Thursday, end of day Africa time we're discussing. So Xenob and Kristen have been involved in those discussions. We'll continue gathering those and those will be part of the pull request. Yeah, so I've got a number of project ideas in the notes already. Oh, let's keep it. That actually was what inspired the pipeline step stock generator project was we've been discussing in docs office hours and realize really this is a coding exercise, not a doc's pipeline steps, doc generator is all about code, even though what it generates is docs and is very much similar to the rest API concept idea that's already an accepted or an already an accepted project idea. So tons of questions in the chat. GSOC and GSOC, they are formally conducted in parallel. So they timeline solve it all up, but at the same time what timelines are different. So the implementation part, active part for students and mentees, they're different. And there are examples of students applying to both programs. Well, and the eligible applicants to Google season of docs are actually different than Google summer of code, right? Summer of code is intentionally limited to students. Google season of docs aspires to invite professional writers who may be well into their careers to contribute to open source. So it's not just students, students are also welcome, but it's students and potentially people who are working as full-time writing professionals already. Yeah, right. But well, GSOC documentation explicitly allows not only professional writers as well as amateurs. So students may be eligible. Right. At the same time, yeah, the recommendation is to focus on the on one program. And well, if you're interested in Google season of docs, the application period will be August and September. So probably it's too early to worry about it anyway. All right. For Google season of docs last year for GSOC, we did have, a young developer very, very early in his career, I guess young is the right word, but early in his career, and he brought a lot to the documentation project and did really interesting work that was really strongly using his coding skills, but really improved the Jenkins-Lex documentation. So there is always that angle as well if individuals are interested. So there's lots of ways to approach who would be involved in Google season of docs and what they would contribute. So it's kind of, it's got a, it has a nice broad scope. And what we really want are applicants who are very committed to open source the projects and are very committed to their own work and really engaged and excited to be part of season of docs and to contribute. So it's quite nice. We're happy to, I mean, Mark is really involved in it, but nice that there's that scope. Do we have any more questions on either season of docs or Google separate code or Jenkins, anything? And then we're any more issues to discuss. Okay. Good. All right. I think we can wrap up basically the half an hour. Good meeting. Thank you all for being here. So happy that all that is, is available and able to take a stronger step mentoring and advising on the org admin. We really welcome that. So that's a great addition to. Give me a book to some extent. You're in now. Yeah. It's great. Yeah. Welcome. All right. Thanks, Yolm. Bye.