 Thanks for staying with us now. Nigeria has one of the highest rates in Africa of suicide. According to the World Health Organization, the suicide rate in Nigeria is 6.1 per 100 people, which is higher than the global average of 9.4 per 100,000 people, sorry, 100,000 people. There are a number of factors that contribute to high suicide rates in Nigeria, including mental illness, poverty, substance abuse, and cultural factors. Suicide is a serious issue that affects people of all ages and all backgrounds. It's important to be aware of the warning signs for individual in crisis so that you can help them get the help they need. In the spirit of, of course, world mental health data we discussed yesterday, today we're discussing suicide prevention and we are asking what are the warning signs for individuals in crisis? Just paying attention now, please let's hear what you have to say. Remember you can join the conversation, send us an SMS or WhatsApp to do it, 1-800-384-663. I want to bring in our guests in a minute, I just want to hear your thoughts, you know, how you pay attention to people. I remember talking yesterday with Jennifer and Dami, no, sorry, we're talking Mary and Dami, and I was saying to them, for me, I think sometimes you need to really just observe people. If you see someone that's been in high spirit and all of a sudden the person is just calm, I should give you a point that something is going wrong. Like, I know that, you know, especially again with the way the economy is going and the way things are going, people would actually, you know, just be falling in and out of depression, even without them knowing. So the key thing is to pay attention because if you look at the number of people now just giving up and saying they want to kill themselves, it's just getting higher and higher. I don't know if you guys saw the video I shared, I think I shared it on the group, the guy in the UK on the bridge where these guys were videoing, they were literally videoing him and driving and thinking he was not going to jump. The next thing, I mean, he had a very lovely car, he parked the car, I even made a joke that she in the makeup party said, if she would think about her car, who would drive me back home? And she would not commit suicide. But some people are not able to see beyond the pain or whatever it is that they're going through. So the guy actually jumped. I mean, there's so many videos. We've seen video of one guy, I think by this, on this LKQS raceway, where he was tied and rubbed to his neck and they had to, you know, to, so I mean, like literally, and I was saying to Mary and Dami yesterday, I said, before somebody gets to that particular stage, there have been several stages. I just think it's also not paying attention to the signs. I don't know. Do you guys have any quick word to that? I agree with you. It's also not paying attention because everybody's in their own world. Everyone has become selfish. Everyone is thinking of themselves. You don't blame them. No, I don't blame them. But guess what? That's what we were talking about earlier. It still goes to that mindset and humanity. No matter how bad things get for you, I'm not saying that you do not have that tendency, but it's also very important. One of the very most important things is the kind of people you surround yourself with. So I'm sure that if your mood was to change, like I'm sure that there are days that we would just look at you and be like, are you okay? And that, are you okay? It's not, are you okay? It's, are you okay? And then depending on how, and I'm waiting to read the response from you because there are behaviors. Like if you have someone who is always lively and all of a sudden the person goes like, below 50%, there are certain behaviors that we have to contact you to. How are you Jennifer? So I agree with NJ, I also agree with you, but I also know that sometimes the signs are not very glaring, right? Because you have people who are always in high spirit, right? And even when they are going through something, that high spirit is what they used to mask what they are going through, right? So one minute you're seeing them, they're all vibed off, they're laughing with everyone, they're cracking jokes everywhere they go, but then they are suffering on the inside, right? And that's because, oh, if I look sad, or even notice. Because they feel like if they look sad, or they look down, it would affect everyone around them. So they're always looking out for the feelings of other people. And they're not paying attention to themselves. Let me bring it up, yes. I'm sure she's itching to join the conversation. Kemi Shakwer Agrabi is a multi potentialite, right? That's the word. With a commitment to helping broken people from healing at the intersection of her interests. She leads the team at Room 707, a support group for people finding comfort, grief, depression, addiction, and abuse. She started her career in 2021, and the group has since coached more than 300 people who have passed through the therapy program while at the same time driving their catching them young project targeted at secondary school students. So she's equipped with a pharmacy degree and an MBA from a global business school. She's currently the global head of special project at M-Farmer, a pioneering health tech company, spanning Africa. And she's joined us live in studio. I apologize if I murdered some things there, but fine. Fine prints is not working for me this night. I need to wear my glasses. But thank you so much. I mean, it's such a pleasure to finally meet you in person. The last time we're on set, I watched from home. I thought that was a very deep conversation, right? And I think he's just gonna pick up from where you stopped. That's what I would say. I mean, yesterday was, yeah, yesterday was World Mental Health Day. And I mean, hearing Jennifer talk about, you know, people in high spirits, you know, and all of that and what India talked about. Everybody, I believe that, you know, I said it that Nigeria is a stressor. Nigeria is a stressor, like literally, like you really must be very, very extremely conscious, right? You must be very conscious and pay very keen interest in your mental state in Nigeria, because as it stands now with everything that is going around, it stresses you. Then you now come to Lagos, it's worse, right? Because there are just so many things that when you go out there, it is almost hitting, you know, on your mental state. I saw a video that somebody posted on road rage. Literally, these two guys bastardized their cars. Benga and Inka posted it. If you've not seen that video, you're gonna see, like, they damaged their entire, everything. And the truck now finally, this thing can only be that these guys are not okay. Because I don't know what will get me to that point where I'll start to do these bus boats on the road. It's not possible. You can't find me there. But that's where we are. So we have a lot of people that are going through some of this crisis. And some have not been able to express it. The only way they think is best for them to express this crisis that they're going through is suicide, right? So how do we start to pay attention? What are the things that we're supposed to be doing? You understand? Where, how did, how would we get to that point where somebody would say, you know what? I think I'm done. And you just need to take my life. So where do we start from? You know, when Jennifer was speaking and she said, you know, it's so difficult to find out for some people because they're in ice pit and all that. That's actually a trigger. That's a sign, brother. That's a warning sign, you know? I once engaged a girl that I used to admire from afar because she was ice-pirated, always smiling. And I'm like, and then one day she sent me a message and said, I'm KSC, I need to talk to you. I said, eh, so I go, eh. And then it's like, I really need to talk to you. I'm going through it a lot, you know? So I understood, I had to, but I was so shocked that this girl, I used to feel like, I'm not even as happy as this girl. You know, so to these emotions that are extreme emotions or when you show a lot of, you know, it's even a sign, whether it is ice-pirated. So if you have someone around you that is always ice-pirated, you know, that's a sign. You actually want to get it, you'll be close to them, right? It's actually a sign, right? So how do we, what's the question again? Yes, how do we start to, where do we start from? You know, identifying these signs. In identifying it. So suicide prevention has to be a comprehensive approach and health standard or WHO standard, there are at least nine principles that has to be a play. Today's topic is addressing just one of them, which is to identify and assist, you know, the individuals that are in crisis. Societal crisis is basically an intense or severe, very severe psychological pain that you believe would not go away, right? I mean, I've felt this pain before, so I understand. When I was a teenager, I'd attempted suicide like two or three times, you know, because I felt like I wasn't wanted, you know. Now that I'm into coaching, then I see that, oh, that was really red signals, you know. I would be going past the bridge and I just feel like, you know, we're just jumping inside. That's it, child. And I felt like, oh, people don't care. People don't care. So you see, when it comes to, when people feel that way, it doesn't matter what got them to that point. You have to validate, you know, I've spoken with a young girl that had attempted suicide and by the time I got into the story, she told me last year, I said, where did he start from? She lost her phone. She lost her phone and he had all her money, you know. She just, and then he's like, are you kidding me? You know, so, but when they get to that point, it doesn't matter what led them to that point. You have to validate that feeling. And psychological pain can be so traumatic. It can be so traumatic that you feel it as a physical pain. You know, when I lost my mom in 2018, I felt pain at that level. I used to think that I had a very high pain threshold. I had, I have three kids. Labor pain was like, I'll be smiling in the, you know. But when I lost my mom, I felt a different kind of pain. It was psychological. Yet I felt as though I had a heavy stone on my chest. And I literally heard a spirit saying, you know, we'll just take a knife. Every other part of your body is okay, you're fine. You're not, you don't have malaria, you don't have anything. Why don't you just take a knife and remove that heavy stone? It was there. I couldn't sleep or eat for three days. And it was heavy, it was there. I feel like every other part of my body is good. Let me just take that thing out. But of course, you know what started after another. But that's how deep psychological pain can be. So societal crisis just happens when you're going through that intense emotional pain. It's almost physical in nature. People don't understand because how do you tell? We're explaining you, can't even say, there's a chest, imagine I'm telling someone beside me. There's something like that. We can't see anything on your chest, excuse me. But I was feeling it, you know. So really warning signs for suicide prevention. You know, there are at least two types. There are those that are immediate risk. And those that are just having acute crisis. So they're just severe risk, immediate risk. When somebody starts telling you about being fantasized about the idea of dying, or that, oh, I tell Google how to die, you know. And these things on Google. These things on Google, right? So there's a clinic in, is it China now or where now that you want actually, is it where? You choose to die. Yes, you want actually for suicide now. It's a guided, ah-ah, university, continuous. Exactly. You know, when they start saying, speaking about fantasizing about the idea of dying, maybe the death is not supposed to be beautiful. You know, when someone just fantasizes, you know, that's, that's an immediate risk. Number two, when they start telling you about, they feel like they're abiding to others. Nobody cares about me. And you just sense that they are risk of your, of their lives or something. That's another immediate risk. Now for severe risk or acute cases, then you hear things like, they start withdrawing from family and friends, or they start giving out things. They start giving out price possessions. You have to be very cautious. Or they start being nice to everybody. I just want you to know that I care about you and they're sending you to your family and friends. That's a red signal, you know. Or anxiety, or somebody that has prior indication of depression, you know. Those guys are severe risk. Now there are another class of people that they've actually attempted. I've met people that they've attempted suicide up to six times. I really, when you listen to their stories, in your, for me personally, I feel like, this problem is much. Is it not? I'm like, maybe it's okay. You know, so people like are really, really, really, really tough, right? So those guys that have attempted suicide before. Yeah, those ones are also. Immediate risk. Immediate risk. This person is part of mine. So there's any chance that any slight trigger, they can try it again. Any slight trigger. So like on my group, I've had people send me their last notes with tears. I want you to know you're the last person that I'm going to speak with on her because I'm about to end my life. So the last notes with the tears, send it via IG, and then I said, oh, I have to start engaging the person, right? For me, we're going to get to that. Like, how do you respond to it? Like, oh, how do you intend to kill yourself? Oh, right now, I have iPod beside me, and I'm just going to drink it, blah, blah, blah. Oh, have you tried thinking about another method? I mean, just to keep them engaged, you know? So I always try to prioritize. When somebody sends a message like, I want to kill myself. I try to prioritize a bit of a attempted suicide before. That's what I suffer. If someone says, yeah, then that's a serious risk. You know, and then they're both still. Wow. Let's take a breather. We'll be back. Stay with us. All right, thanks for staying with us. Now, if you're just changing, we're having a very sober conversation. Of course, we're dealing with issues around suicide prevention, and you get, I mean, how to identify the warning signs, and we have KSA with us. I don't know that you would ever get. NJ, you had a question. Well, so I know you said, you mentioned after Jennifer's comment saying that, you know, people who are high energy. So in my mind, I was like, okay, so I'm high energy, sometimes. And I understand perfectly well how it can go unnoticed because I've been through a lot of things. I've had cases of depression also. And it's, it can be, I understand how people can get to that point where you make certain decisions, whether in the negative or hopefully, we always praise in the positive. But in that time, how, how is it that, how does your mind get so blocked? I don't know if you understand what I'm about to add. How does your mind get so blocked that a heavy stone on your chest can relate or can translate to you taking a knife to try and remove it? How does a person get to that point? Because it happens, we see it every day, we watch it in movies and it just seems like a movie. You hear about it and it just seems like a movie. But how do you get to that point? So for me, I mean, I had one of the greatest shock of my life, which was that my mom had passed and I saw her less than 24 hours before that time. And she was high spirit, she was good. So it was crazy. At that point, I was dealing with grief and I'd shut down everything else. So stopped eating, sleeping, three straight days. So of course I wasn't, I was, I'd crossed the borderline where thinking normally is concerned, right? So really, we underestimate the power of our mind and of our body. And many times we do not even know ourselves as much as we think we do. You know, when you say that I can never find myself in a pet school or a shoe, you've never actually, if you are put on that, the condition, you are not sure of exactly what you're going to display. So that's it. Nothing prepares you for shock, especially a high impact shock. Nothing prepares you for it. And in that moment, you're not sure of how. I mean, I lost my dad in 2020, last year. And it was a different volume, right? It was different. It was different. It's like, I hit a ceiling with my mom's death that I'm so sure that I cannot allow anything else gets me to that point again, right? So I'd come to study and understand my body a bit more and my mind and how it works and how it handles itself. And so I prepared my mind. And not only that, every other emotional or psychological thing that has impacted me. You know, so it depends on what state of life you are. It depends on the condition. It depends on the trigger, right? But more importantly, out of all of that is for us to keep learning about ourselves, learning and we're learning about ourselves. What kind of things get you angry and get you upset because you don't just hit the ceiling, right? You don't just hit the ceiling. I told you about somebody that lost her phone and is thinking suicide. She's not any better. A trigger is not any better than somebody that lost there. I mean, both of them are considering suicide. In fact, in that case, she had attempted suicide. I'd engaged a young girl 23 year old and said to me, oh, she had attempted suicide three times. A sister reached out to me, then I engaged her. And then she says she's not making progress in life. And I said, why? So our friends are doing well. How did she know on Instagram? She sees their posts and everything. So that's another story, the impact of social media. But look at how weak a mental strength is, right? To consider suicide based off of that, you know? So it's us being intentional. I feel like people don't invest in themselves long enough. They don't prepare themselves. Life, we need to accept the fact that life is tough. Life is going to be tough. If you've been happy all your life, something is still going to happen that is going to upset your day, right? How you handle it from the beginning is going to prepare you for whatever. The bigger things that will come. The bigger things that will come. So when you get angry, when you get sad, what can it be? So you process your emotions at every point in time. You get back from work. But you respond to it. And then you just keep learning and unlearning yourself. So let me just add this, right? Based off of what NJ asked, I know there was a time where I went through, I lost someone and I never felt that kind of pain before. So it was like, I actually wanted to remove my heart. That's the same feeling. I've had people talk about that feeling. And I'm like, yeah, I've never felt that feeling, right? A lot of people probably went through that when they were younger, but I went through that when, like 2020. So it was a lot. And I think there was a day that I was thinking and I just told myself, God, I just want to sleep. I'm not wake up for the next two years. Now the thing is, I didn't think of offending myself and saying, oh, I just want to go permanently. I think in that moment, I just wanted that rest. I didn't have to feel that pain. And I'd had people say, oh, sometimes it takes time, it could take a year, it could take two years. And I was like, you know what? If there's a drug that I could take that would let me sleep for two years. And then when I wake up, that pain is gone. Then I'll take. Actually, if someone had given it to me in that moment of pain, I would have taken it. But then another thing that I kept telling myself is this is just one of those things that I helped. I would have to go through in life and it would just toughen me up. But that aside, one thing that I've noticed is I feel like sometimes people pick up bad behavior and bad things off the internet, right? When people watch movies, teenagers especially, watch movies and then they see how people are committing suicide over minor things, right? They get very influenced that when minor things happen to them, it's like, oh, this is such a huge thing. And I get it because as a teenager, the things that we see as adults, that we see them as minor to them, it's not minor. It's a big deal. Yeah, it's a big thing. So I'm in school and I realize that, oh, I'm failing or there's a particular person. They're very popular, everybody loves them. I don't really have friends like that. In that moment, you feel like, oh, the world is against me. And sometimes as a teenager, you forget that you have family back at home that love you. But because you have the external factor that is not giving you what other people are receiving, it just feels like, you know what, the entire world is against me. I can't see what my own family is doing. I can't even see the love the next person is giving to me. And that's one of the things that I see these days. I might be wrong, but I just feel like as adults and as parents, when we are around teenagers, we need to empower them more and let them know that see these things that you see online, right? They are not that important. People just come up to put this facade and just make it look glamorous. And all these movies that you watch, you shouldn't take it too literal, right? Don't just take it and think, oh, that's how your life is. Life is gonna be tough. Life is going to be tough. And there are things and steps that you need to take to be able to ride through it. And also need to let people know that even as adults and as you grow older, there's still challenges in France. You just need to overcome one. Once you overcome one challenge or one hurdle, you're strengthened, right? Because when you get to the next hurdle, you're aging to also overcome the next one. When the hurdle you overcome two years or three years ago comes, it looks like peanuts to you. But I don't know. Have you had teenagers that you've spoken to or young adults who you feel like the thought of suicide was probably influenced by something they had seen or something they had carried? It's probably not an innate desire of theirs, but it just feels like, oh, maybe that's the easy way out. Some of them are just storing with the idea, but it's not like that's what they really want to do. Because it seems like, oh, that's a popular thing people are doing these days, but why not? Let me just quickly add to the question, because I remember there is a video game at some point. I don't know if you were lucky enough to hear whether we're actually leading young people. So how much of that influence? It's really bad. And thank you for that question, by the way, because I'm looking forward to ways or platform in which we could or I could create awareness to parents as to how weak the minds of the children are raising these days far. And that journey does not start when the child is a teenager. The journey starts from way back and it goes into what intentional parenting, right? Where you are not completely relaxed or you have confidence in the kind of school you send your children to because it's an expensive school or because you have a nanny, you have a chef, you have people at home and you need their upbringing to these people. So that's what the pattern that we're seeing. So even at the level we're going into secondary school, I'm already meeting young people, not even teenagers, really young people, already slitting their lips and they are showing me these cards that their parents have no idea because they always keep it covered. The screening form is covered, covers their skin. And when you engage them at that level, some of these people don't even have access to the internet. But it still comes down to how somehow the media or whatever they have access to has made it feel like popular thing. You know how someone just tweets and depressed? It's almost like a girl came to me once and said, ma, I have seasonal depression. I said, do you know what it means? She doesn't even know what it means. I have seasonal depression. So you tag yourself, you know, and when people post it and they see that it's one of the celebrities or stars like, oh, today I'm just having, I'm depressed. You know, and then it's also like, oh, it's almost like pop culture. It's a cool thing. But that's where it starts from. And then you keep building on it, building on it. You are mentally weak, you have no strength, no mental capacity at all, no resilience at all. And it feels like, you know what, you're not the only one feeling this way. So it's okay to let go. You know, it's interesting. This conversation, I know that a lot of people feel the need to want to always tag everything to, oh, my mental health and my mental health. And I think that's why, you know, we really need to draw the line on some of these things. But let's take some comments. I think we have some comments. But there's something you guys did. I think it's project care first. You wanna quickly touch on that. Oh, okay. Yeah, so I actually, on the board, for blue room care. So blue room care is the one doing putting care first. So I just sponsored, I mean, in celebration of mental health day yesterday. So just sponsored to how far there are therapy at 50% discounts. You know, so that's currently on, right? So, I mean, if anybody's interested, you can go on their Instagram page at Blue Room Care. It's a mental health organization. So you get therapy for as low as $2,000. Also, you know why I told you to talk about this? Because yesterday when we had the conversation, Dami was saying that a lot of people, even if they want to go and seek professional help, is very expensive. Maybe somebody telling you that per session is 100,000 and you have to do maybe 10 sessions or 150 sessions. That's 1.5 million. Who is gonna be able to afford that, you know? Some of these people, they really don't have access to those financing. Right, so I like the idea that it's coming very, very, you know, next to nothing as far as I'm concerned. For people to be able to get help. So the reason she's saying, oh, I made you mention this is, there's anybody watching and you know someone that is really going through a very tough period. Please, I mean, there's people like her that they've dedicated their life's work, you know, to helping people come out of this state. Let's not let another person die just because they couldn't handle the pressure anymore and they had to take their lives. But let's quickly take some comments then we'll just quickly wrap up the conversation. So I have a comment. The way we can prevent suicide is by sharing our challenges with the right person who can give better hope and reason to overcome it. And again, whatever background you come from, always hope for progress. Don't involve yourself in negative or bad act that will affect you mentally. So I have a comment here that says, good evening my dear beautiful sisters and what are you saying? Hashtag grace, you remember what this is? I really don't understand why people think of getting themselves involved in suicide. Trust me, suicide is not a solution to one's problem. It only adds to it. The most annoying thing is that people plan to commit suicide over a minor thing according to my dear beautiful sister, Jennifer. Suicide can be prevented if the person involved knows and accepts that it is wrong and demands for counseling and therapy. The thought of suicide should not exist at all because it is dangerous and deadly. Nice to have my dear beautiful sisters, Jennifer and Wajaka back. I miss you all. My name is Daniel Elowezregrafan. Hi, thanks Daniel. Thank you, Daniel. So I mean, if you had one final thing to say to anyone watching, the pressure is real. I mean, these pressures will not go away, you know. And like you rightly said, a lot of us are being, we're raising children that are not very, very strong emotionally. And I think, you know, we need to be able to strike that balance and create some level of resilience in the life of the child. But we're looking at science now, but we didn't even touch on, when you didn't find the science, what do you do quickly? Do you reach out to people like you or do you, you know, what exactly are the quick steps? You can do that in a minute or two. Okay, so that's if you have a family or friend that is suicidal. You've noticed some of the signs that you mentioned. Yeah, I mean, the first thing is to try to validate their pain, make them feel that you are you understand about them and you care about them and you're set to offer support to them. And you can take it a step further by telling them that you help them seek professional help. So I mean, I've had people that have reached out to us because a friend is paying for his friend, you know. You know, and that way they feel more, I'm gonna head to book this appointment with a therapist for you, you know. So I mean, those are the ways you can, and then take off triggers around them, for example. So if you have a suicidal child or something like that, I mean, because I've had those cases as well, you know, you want to ensure that they don't have, you don't have hypopesticides or things like that hanging around or knives at their reach, because like I said, there are some that have immediate risk and those people, you shouldn't feel stigmatized considering taking your children to seek professional help because, you know, based on our culture as well, people will bring in the religion to it and they want to start praying for the person. If somebody has openly even attacked, there was a news like that where the son had killed the mother and the father had openly attacked someone or talked about death or stuff. You need to know that, well, this person is very rigid for therapy. And my final words will really be that there's something called the Locals of Control, right? And I say this quite a lot, and that is for each and every one of us, we have internal Locals of Control, you know, external Locals of Control. So the goal for everyone should be to live with a higher intensity of your internal Locals of Control. So they are living inside out as against outside in. But what you see many times is that many people, especially societal people, right? They're trying to pull the entire universe into themselves and becomes a very heavy weight, you know? You are happy today if work is good, external factors. You're happy because you are married, you're happy because you have two very external factors not coming from themselves. You'd be shocked that some people love other people more than they love themselves. They've never even imagined showing compassion to themselves. They say eight full things to themselves. Why did you do such a stupid thing, a very stupid person? But they would not even use that for their friends. So many people, a lot of the time, and I mean, I get to say celebrities, I've canceled a few, right? We live from the outside in and it can be a heavy burden as against living from the inside out, you know? You understand your strength. Regardless, regardless, regardless, if they work, I'm happy. If they don't work, I'm happy. I just, you know, like I think maybe because of the downtime I went through, you know, I'm saying it because honestly speaking, there's nothing that will happen now that that will be the, it will take. Somebody says, good evening, please, how far with laws in Nigeria that is sending people to jail for attempted suicide? Well, it's a law, if you try to commit suicide, you fail, you'll be jailed. Yeah, it's a law. But we'll bring, we'll bring KSA back because me, I like the conversation. Instagram, they say is the biggest platform of envy. Yeah, of course. The biggest platform of envy. So we need to understand, say, if you don't have the mind, the power, leave it there. Well, let's quickly, so thank you so much KSA. I think we'll continue this conversation because it's not something we can just start and stop. It has to be something that we keep on reiterating and keep talking about it. As far as we are concerned, the conversation is beyond us just having the conversation. It's helping somebody out there. So right, if you missed our quote for today, let me find out what it says. When you don't have the strength to take another step, please ask those you love to pull you. Just, I mean, be open enough to just say, I need help. That's all. There'll be people that will run around you. But thank you so much. Thank you, Jennifer. And thank you, Angie. We'll see you guys tomorrow at 8 p.m. As we bring another great conversation to your screen. Ciao.