 What's up everybody it's Brain Man Sean and I'm back with another episode of Inside the Network where we share exclusive content from Inside of Brain Man Network.com. And this is a very special episode because I'm sharing the full interview I did with George Goodrich, founder of Playlist Push and the reason I'm sharing the full interview is because they actually have a service that you might be considering whether you want to use or not. And I think it's important to have a full consideration and get an understanding of the background of the founders, how they think and how they approach the company. That way you can allow that to form how you deal with the company. I think more information when it comes to these type of interviews is better. So I wanted to make sure I put the full interview out there. Also they get really deep into how they approach the company and quality control probably around 24 minutes in this video. But I think it's important to watch the entire thing through. So once again you have the most information possible to decide whether you want to even move forward with a company like this or not. So let's get into it. Wow, what's up everybody? Once again it's Brain Man Sean and I have a very special guest for you guys. This is George Goodrich, CEO of Playlist Push. Now if you don't know Playlist Push, it's a service that all has a network of curated playlists and release playlists. Of course, they allow artists to use the service if you get approval and pair you with proper playlists. And George, you'll see just from our back of the talk we have, this isn't his first foray into the playlist game. He's come up and he's been in music for a while. So without further ado, I think it's going to be a very interesting conversation. So check it out. Now, George, first of all, first and foremost, appreciate you doing this. Yeah, thanks for having me man, appreciate it. No problem man, no problem. I want to start here, right? Because the earliest that I know about your background, just from, I believe it was an article that popped up online or something, when I googled Playlist Push, which that reminds me of another article I got to ask you about, but it was Repost Network. And was Repost Network your first time really getting into music at all or how did you get there? Yeah, that's a good question. So really long story short, I used to actually, so I went to UCLA and I dropped out, but when I was going there, I worked at a private country club called Bel Air Country Club. So I met a lot of people that worked in music, ANRs, agents, and I was like, damn, this is cool. Like these people seem to have a good life and I think this is what I want to do. And I'd always been involved in music. I would go to festivals, go to shows, and I was always kind of trying to figure out, like, I got to a point where I was always obsessed with who's the promoter, who's running this party instead of just focusing on the music. So I was always kind of trying to meet people and figure out who's behind the scenes. And then from then, I actually moved to Australia. So my idea was, okay, I can move to Australia, I'll try to bring back some Australian bands to the States, because that was a time when, like, Tayman Paula, a band called CUT Copy, a lot of Australian bands were coming over and breaking in the States and I was like, okay, cool, be easy for me to go over there and do that. So I moved over there and then the theory was to move back and then be able to ask one of those members for a job at a bigger label or an agency, but I did that and then lived in Australia for a year, worked at a venue booking shows, tried to manage a few indie bands, and then eventually moved to Amsterdam and then when I moved to Amsterdam, I started getting into more of startups and technology and kind of started getting out of management and decided that's not what I wanted to do. And then eventually I just met, just started meeting people. I'd go to events and I met my co-founder, Ludo Helder. So he had already built a website called Demo Drop. So it was a way for up-and-coming, mostly electronic music producers to send their music to bigger DJs and bigger producers in hopes of getting their music played by that DJ, because at that time, that's kind of how you broke through if you were a bigger electronic artist at least. So yeah, I mean, worked on that for a long time and then eventually I moved back to the States, interviewed at like CAA, William Morris, bombed all those interviews, like just really bad. What did you, I gotta stop you, what did you learn from bombing those interviews? I think just how, sometimes from the outside you think that like music is fun and like it's exciting and it's cool and it's chill, but the interview at CAA was like very like corporate, very structured and very just like super fast, kind of like hard hitting, just rapid fire questions that I wasn't really ready for. You know, I thought we were gonna like hang out and then like drink a coffee and like you were gonna be interested to meet you, but they didn't give a shit. They're like, okay, like where'd you go to school? What'd you do? What experience do you have? What publications do you read? And I'm like, and just yeah, it was it was terrible. Yeah, so but hey, glad that happened. So when I moved back to LA, it actually took me like eight months to actually find a job in music and I told myself I was like I'm not gonna do anything else until I find a job in music. I'm not gonna do a job at a restaurant. Nothing. So bank account was dwindling. And then I found a repost network and I applied and they hired me as their not first employee, I think second, like second hire. And then yeah, I started started out working for them and our main thing was sound cloud monetization. So that was when sound cloud had kind of rolled out SoundCloud go the subscription service. And you started seeing ads pop up on SoundCloud. So the bigger label artists, they had the direct deal with SoundCloud. So we had a deal with SoundCloud where we could grab any independent artists and we could basically plug them into our network. And they could start getting paid for their streams on SoundCloud. That was the core. So you guys were the middle man to allowing artists to get paid. Does that mean you guys acted somewhat as a label, but only in that one function? Kind of. But really, I mean, a label, they kind of like figure out creatively more what's gonna happen. And for us, it's like, hey, whoever has traffic, whoever has like a certain amount of streams and followers will sign them up, whether it's like, you know, chill electronic music or like ugly God, that kind of end of the spectrum. And that was kind of go ahead. What would they, what would be the criteria outside of just plays, right? Because, okay, it's obvious why the direct to label relationship would exist. I'm just trying to figure out from a SoundCloud perspective, right? Like what, what would the value of being allowing the other third parties that aren't technically a label to bring people in where you guys like a quality control aspect of it? Or what, what does that? Yeah, I mean, yeah, for sure. I mean, we had to definitely see the opportunity there. But for us, it was more or less, they had to have at least like 5,000 streams on a song, I think. So if we go to a profile, we'd be able to see like, okay, this guy has subtraction, you know, has like three songs out, but there's a good possibility he's going to continue to release music. And, you know, we take a small percentage from him being able to monetize his channel, basically. Got it. Okay. So that was huge. And this was like three or four years ago. So this is one like, ugly God and like the whole SoundCloud thing was like, kind of like a thing that was on like SoundCloud rap was really starting to take off. So it was an interesting time. And yeah, our main thing was just, you know, signing up artists, the platform. And then eventually, we started taking artists on SoundCloud and started distributing them to the DSPs like Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon. And then from there, we started seeing a few artists we work with like, Oh, wow, they're getting like, they're making a ton of money from Spotify, what's going on. So they were getting added to these huge Spotify playlists. And that was also back when you could email Spotify and say, Hey, we have this artist or whatever. And you can get in touch with the editorial team. So a few artists, you know, went from making basically nothing to making like five to 10 Gs a month, at least, and getting record label deals. So that was really that was kind of the thing that tipped me off on the whole playlist thing. That was like, where I was like, Wow, this is kind of like where things are going, right? You can get on some good playlists, like you're going to get noticed. So yeah, from there, I wrote an ebook about it called, How do you Spotify playlist to want your career music? It's not even a book, it's like 25 pages. It's basically like a long detailed blog post. And that came out, I think the end of January in 2017. So people started buying the book. And then, you know, they would reach out and say, Hey, can you do this for me? Or can you help me out? And so I was kind of scrambling to, you know, help people promote their music. And then I told Ludo, my co founder, I said, on demo drop, I said, Hey, man, I think there's an opportunity here because the main thing we were hearing from artists was they, you know, have no direct channel or direct plug to Spotify, or they've used other services that have been pretty much a scam. So paying someone like two grand or four grand, and they basically just say, Oh, yeah, sorry, the curators didn't like it. So I knew I knew that there was some kind of like middle ground of a network we could build. And then yeah, man, we started just finding people that own playlist, signing them up, running our friends music through it started as an email system and campaigns are like $40. And we had like eight curators. And your one song just went to all the curators. There was no like targeting. It wasn't, you know, select genres. And that was kind of how it started. And now, and that was in June 2017. And we've ran like 9000 or 9000 campaigns now. So it's, it's, yeah, it's getting pretty dialed. It's, it's fun. We have some, like bigger, major label clients, but you know, we work with artists that are just uploading their first song in Spotify too. So it's, it's been really cool. It's been fun. What would you say you've learned from 9000 campaigns? I would say just managing expectations. We try to put as much information as we can on our website and our blogs and things I write about. Because for us, it's like, we see whatever you're doing as just fuel in the fire, right? You're not going to spend $400 with us and go viral and give millions of streams. That's not really the goal. We're just more in for like the long term goal of building an audience out on Spotify, right? In hopes eventually you investing with us and using playlist push will make sense down the road. So I think that's been the biggest thing is just managing expectations. And also, I think the thing we do well is like we communicate very closely with all the artists that works with us. So from day one, the campaign starts, as soon as you get added to a playlist, you get an email instantly. So it's not like PR where you pay someone and they're like, Oh, yeah, we got you on this blog. Or, oh, yeah, we're reaching out to the fader or whatever and just bullshit. We're there every step of the way telling you exactly what's happening from when the campaign starts to when we send you like the final report of basically everything that's happened. So I think the biggest thing is like just keeping people informed that you're working with. That's the biggest key for us. Interesting. How many artists do you because that's email heavy? How many artists do you have the capacity to manage at once? Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, it's it's always been just kind of a dance between building out the network of curators, and then also making sure we have enough campaigns to serve those curators but not too many. So what happens is certain dates will just block out. So for whatever reason, everyone wants to release their music this Friday, eventually, that campaign will just be blacked out and you won't be able to send your song up to curators on that day. So that makes it much easier for us to kind of gauge. We also we don't do anything to like stuff the gas pedal down. We don't we spend literally no money on ads. So we spend like a little bit of money on AdWords just so we pop up if you Google us. But Facebook, Instagram, we do zero advertising, because we're kind of just growing at a nice pace, but also making sure we can serve all the people that are working with us. You're probably trying to keep it manageable. Yeah, exactly. Right. That makes me think do you do you guys see up an aspect where it would scale out right is building it manageably, but then some aspect where it's like, yo, let's put some gas on this thing and blow it up to a larger scale where I don't know if some full scale operation, whatever full scale means, right? That's all relative. But you know what I mean, where there's investors involved or whatever. Yeah, for sure. I mean, that's something that we think about a lot. And I think I'm glad that we never did anything to like stuff the gas pedal down or we haven't raised money. It's been basically bootstrapped from day one. Because typically that's what those someone invests. That's what they want to see. They want you to grow at this unreasonable rate. But what would happen is a bunch of artists wouldn't get results and it would just be a nightmare. So it's been easier for us to just kind of trudge along. And you know, as we build out Spotify, eventually we want to add in other services and that's going to help us scale. So whether that's Instagram influencers on the platform, YouTube playlists, YouTube channels, TikTok. So we've really got Spotify dialed. Now we're kind of trying to figure out, okay, how can we like differentiate our offering and still serve the artists we work with and help them hit their goals? Got you. Okay. Interesting. Interesting. So that's from a business perspective. Before we get in, because I definitely want to ask you some things in terms of, like what are those difficulties of just being a playlist or how artists can look out for scams or even some tips that they can have. But just from a sheer business perspective, here you talk about that bootstrapping versus having an investor and how they want you to scale so quickly. What has it been like? Have you had those moments? Because I know I have a business where it's like, you know, I wanted this thing to grow fast. I'm trying to grow fast. But then certain things have to work out, work themselves out. And then maybe a few months later, you're like, you know what? If we grew that fast, it probably would have killed us. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I think like my theory with art, not only artists, but with business is however fast you take off, that's as fast as you're going to drop off, right? So if an artist comes out of nowhere, and they just blast off, and you have no idea who they are, but they're massive, they're going to drop usually pretty quick after that. And I think that's the same thing with business. Whereas, and if you're an artist, if you're like in the trenches, you start out DMing people on Instagram, that's literally how you start your music career. Getting up to starting to tour and then really taking you years to build, it's going to take you a lot longer before you tail off. And I think that's the same thing with business. So we've grown at like a nice, reasonable rate. And yeah, I have friends that work at tech companies like, oh, you need to be doing these ads, and you should be doing influencer marketing, and you should be doing all these things. And it's been nice to just that what we've done is worked, right? It's like, it's we've been growing at a slow pace, but it's, it's, you know, it's worked for for us. And it's, it's a lot easier for us to manage and, you know, slowly add in systems, hire new people if we need to, instead of just like jamming the gas pedal down for the sake of making as much money as we can. Got you. Do you look at any other playlist networks as competition doesn't have to even be a particular name, but is that a space where it feels like, Hey, I got to be these guys are there performing, or is there even a way to engage with other playlists are doing? Yeah, for sure. I mean, there's a point in time. It's just happened recently. We've just I start seeing a lot of ads come up for playlist companies or Spotify promotion, you know, $25, $300, whatever, usually, you know, crappy websites, you have no idea who's behind it or what's going on. And we were kind of like freaking out like, Oh, man, we're seeing all these ads, we need to start running ads. And I'm like, well, really, we don't because I think what happens is people will use those services that are being advertised for them. And they don't get that greater results. And then they might dig a little bit deeper and say, Okay, like, what's a good company that can like actually do this? And then hopefully they find us. So by all those other companies running ads, it's just raising awareness to artists that Oh, wow, this is a thing. I didn't know I could do this before. So I think it's actually in our benefit that you didn't go down that whole and say, Oh, wow, we should run ads. Because for all we know, those companies have like 10 clients, right, a month, if that, like just because someone's running ads, it doesn't mean they're killing it. Usually it's the opposite. Right. So I'm glad that we held off and didn't go down that rabbit hole to to, you know, basically just follow all those new companies. Right. It's funny you said that because working at a startup, that's when I really learn from really the CEO, how you just never know what's going on behind the curtains for any other company you can't focus on the on the front. That was actually my first version of like, if you will say you just see the highlights. Yeah, I basically was getting that from a business perspective, like that's what you see. Okay, it looks like they're killing it. They just dropped this bad ass article, whatever. But yeah, you got to keep moving on your own operation. So that our respect for that. What are you guys doing to get business? By the way, so this all referrals and show aren't so actively putting out the name? Yeah, I think a big of it is or a big part of it is just referrals. It's just word of mouth. People use it, they get results, and then they tell their friends and I think the good thing about it is, if people get results, it's directly related to the music. So if you have good music, and you get results, those people usually know other people that have good music. So it kind of just like feeds off each other. So when people get results, they tell other people about it. And yeah, I mean, a lot of our business is just people introing me to hey, this is my friend who's a manager. This is my friend who has like a digital agency. So I mean, that's really been I think the biggest thing is just word of mouth. Yeah, I mean, we have some good articles out there about like Spotify and playlist and things like that. And those are all nice. But I think really the main driver is just people telling each other about it. Gotcha. That reminds me when I because when that's what I was thinking about earlier when I said I saw an article, how do you guys get an article in Fortune? You've only been around what two years now, I guess? Yeah. Well, it's not I mean, it's not the best article in the world. If you read it, I mean, it's it's cool that we're in there. But like they say, like any press is good press, right? But and it's funny, because I talked to that dude, and I was somebody sometimes you get so fired up to like talk to fortune or or Forbes or Rolling Stone or whoever. You don't think about like that angle they're taking, right? You're just like, Oh, wow, this guy's like excited and interested in our business. And he writes this thing like, Oh, yeah, this is like a murky, Spotify playlist thing. I'm like, Damn, this dude roasted us like didn't see. Yeah, he didn't really make. I wouldn't say he made things up. But a few of things. I mean, it wasn't the most he's not the most diligent dude. And I remember just hitting him up like 12 times, like, Hey, man, can you hot link playlist push, please? Can you link to our website? And he's like, nah, or you wouldn't even email me back. So I mean, I guess this goes for artists too. And if you have a company, it's like, just because someone's reaching out and they want to know about your business, doesn't mean they're going to talk about it. Like it's like, the latest greatest thing, right? Right. And I guess that's why people hire PR companies. But honestly, I think that that was actually a really good thing for us, because a lot of bigger label executives like saw that and they're like, Oh, like, what are these guys doing? Like, what is this? Like, they're genuinely interested. They didn't care if it was like, negative or, you know, wasn't talking about playlist push, like it was awesome. They were just interested that we were in there, right? And that they saw us. So yeah, that was an interesting, interesting point in the timeline. Yeah, I think I didn't expect that particular takeaway, but I think that's a very strong takeaway for artists and again, people in general, that whole if people are reaching out, you don't know why you can't expect these great angles because we've seen it again and again, where artists have interviews, and then they just ask certain questions and they're ready for them and they look crazy. Yeah. So that's interesting. Yeah. Okay. Um, well, now I gotta ask your perspective and on all these changes that are coming along with Spotify, right? Um, and they're constantly changing, right? But like some of the things like their user curated playlists and trying to it seems that they're trying to push more for their own playlist that wish they're in control than these third party user generated playlists and things of that nature. How do you even feel about that as a whole? Yeah, I mean, for us as a business, it's obviously it's super tough because Spotify, they want to have in a perfect world, they have complete control of everything. And there's no user generated playlists. There's just their playlists that they have. And that's how everyone consumes music. The good thing for us is I think people want to dig a little bit deeper. Like if you're like me, I want to find like specific playlists. Like last weekend, I was in Joshua Tree. So like I wanted to listen to like some classic rock. So I looked at like Joshua Tree playlist. And that's like a very specific kind of like moment mood place, where yeah, Spotify has thousands of playlists. But I actually think it's more interesting if I'm listening to a playlist that's made by someone who's just like a normal Spotify user like me, then like the corporate interest of like the rap caviar playlist, right? Or the whatever the yeah, I mean, the politics of that playlist and how those labels fit in that, right? So I think it's tough for us. But I think we're trying to get more people to create playlists. So instead of saying like, all right, how big is this? Like how many of these playlists are on Spotify, we can even work with like what's the ceiling? We're trying to make that ceiling bigger and get people that have some kind of online audience to actually create playlists. That's kind of like something we're working on. So yeah, Spotify is trying to own everything, but we're trying to make our piece of the pie bigger, right? Because for an artist, it's super tough to get on those bigger playlists straight out of this. It is. So what is encouraging influencers to create their own playlists look like? Um, yeah, I mean, a lot of it is just us reaching out to them and saying, Hey, we see that you have an online audience. Uh, you know, do you be interested? Because they're the kind of, there's a lot of people out there that could just create a playlist, share it on Twitter or Instagram and Facebook, and they would instantly get a couple thousand followers, right? Right. So that's kind of the angle that we're trying to take. And, you know, it's, it's a little bit more than just like, oh, we're going to pay you to do this. It's cool because like they actually have something that can help artists like move our careers forward, which is cool. So that's kind of we're still working it out. But yeah, trying to figure that out. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, in a perfect world, like Elon Musk creates a playlist and then he signs up to play this potion and, you know, everyone wants to get on that list. That's kind of like, that's that'd be like the top tier, right? So it's anywhere from him all the way down. Got you. Got you. Okay. So just from your experience, how do you guys even, how do you qualify playlist for their, their quality? You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, it's a good question. So what we do is like, when a curator signs up to play this push, they're on like a weak trial period. So we make sure they're listening to songs. We can see if they're copying, pasting reviews. And then the most important thing for us is we can actually measure their playlist and see how many monthly listeners it has. If it only, if it has like less than 1% listener to follower ratio, we'll remove from the platform. So I mean, we've had playlists that have, you know, over 100,000 followers and we've kicked them out, because you get on that playlist and then you get, you know, 10, 20 new listeners from it, you're going to be pissed, right? It's like going back to managing expectations. So that makes sense. That's like, I think that's been our biggest thing is managing the network, making sure we only have people that want to actually like help any artist and aren't just seeing it as like, oh, wow, I can make money from this website and really vetting those people out before they even start getting paid to review songs. So yeah, it's interesting going back to that managing expectations part. So what is the hardest part about that process? Do you guys have it down to a system where it's just easy to vet out those people or is it still a little difficult at times? Yeah, no, I mean, everything systematized. We actually added something new so that if you change the name of your playlist to something completely different, then we actually automatically remove it until someone physically, until one of us logs in and checks it. If it's like a top hits 2019 to top hits 2020, like, okay, cool, we can keep that person in. But if they're just trying to create the name of like new albums, like a new app album comes out, like every week changing the name, that's not really helping us out, right? Like, yeah, those players are cool because it's going to get you a few streams right out of the gate. But it's really tough to actually maintain that audience. So it doesn't make sense for us to have those playlists in the network. So yeah, I mean, pretty much everything is automated end to end for curators. And it's, it's tough for us because people are like pissed, you know, they're like, hey, I signed up and you deleted my account. It's like, yeah, dude, you signed up, we scan your playlist, it sucks, you were automatically removed. So, you know, they're always like hitting on the chat and want to know, because they don't know what we're doing on our end, right? We're just saying, hey, your playlist isn't that good and you can't sign up. So sorry. But I mean, it's, it's nice that we have that, because if we didn't, it would, it would be a shit show. It would be extremely hard to figure out who we can work with and who we can. Gotcha. Okay. So what are, obviously, okay, you have these things like the whole murky business article and so many people who speak negatively on playlists in general, how has there been difficult times, right, as play, as a company or like where your playlists might fall off in quality or, or do you guys ever have trouble trying to give certain results or how to, yeah, how does that work? Or did you, I guess, the best way to say it in your own language, did you guys ever have trouble where expectations were mismanaged? Yeah, for sure. I think the, we had, we just, we've had a few rough patches where, you know, someone would use playlist push and then they would like blog about it, right. And what, what happens is like, people will see like, oh, playlist push review and click on it and read it. But like, I swear, at least 90% of those people don't listen to the actual record we promoted, right. It's not linked in there. It's just saying like, hey, I didn't get on that many playlists. And this is what happened. It's like, dude, go listen to the song. And then we can chat about it, right. So that's been tough because we do run a lot of campaigns sometimes and it's tough to like, keep track of like every single thing and, and who's coming to the website and who's saying what. So, you know, and it goes both ways. Like if someone has an amazing experience and each song goes out does well, they're not going to like write about it right and say, oh, wow, these guys are amazing. They're just going to keep using it. Like, oh, this is dope. I'm not telling anyone about this. So that's kind of, that's been the tough part. And I think, you know, we're working on building that out and starting to tell those stories of some of the artists we work with if they let us. And that's kind of like where we're going now. But I never wanted to get to a point where like, oh, yeah, we have all these case studies and look how great these artists did because really man's based on the music. Like the people that get results and do well, they have good music. They get it like they're in it for the long run. Yeah, you know, there's other people that, you know, they're in it to promote whatever, you know, courses they're selling and they see an SEO land grab and, you know, they can write about our company and know that it's going to pop up. So that's, that's been super tough. But also I think that sometimes it's been good because I feel like that's weeded out a lot of junk or people that don't 100% believe in what they're doing from not using the site. So it's actually kind of like a blessing and a curse, right? I don't want you, I don't want there to be all it's really weird if you only see amazing things about Playlist push, right? It's like, we're music promotion. Like, do we hit everything out of the park? No. But what happens is we try to take care of the people that don't have good, that, you know, might not have a good campaign or only get added to a few playlists, like we have systems in place to communicate with those people and help them out. Interesting. Yeah, it's so funny. There's so many things to resonate just because obviously I'm, you know, I'm in marketing, so I'm familiar with artists. For one, they can have a great experience, which is the most frustrating thing in the world. And they not tell everybody, right? Artists can be pretty selfish. They'll be like, no, I literally will not. I remember even on my YouTube channel early on, like people will be like, I will see somebody comment like, yeah, I'm not going to tell anybody about this channel because I don't want to know. I need you like, I might not even do this anymore. If you don't tell people, right? Because of what that does for growth. That's definitely an interesting dance with that. And then of course, also just the idea of it not not being able to completely overset or not wanting to right if you're trying to manage expectations, oversell maybe some of the bigger clients that you work with or certain results that you have because this being music, right? It's so not repeatable because of all these varieties and things like that. How do you guys sift through the artists? Okay, some of it naturally happens because they don't want to pay. Right? Some of it naturally happens because they're maybe feared off by misinformation or quality information, whatever. But then what about those people who actually do apply? And they're in your system? Is there a approval and denial system? What does that go like? Yeah, I mean, that depends directly on how busy we are. There's been times when we've had, you know, over 150 people applying each day. So for any of for me or my staff to go through there and listen to all of those songs to not even know if they were going to pay for a campaign sometimes is a waste of time. So it really just depends on the level of applicants and like how much business we're doing. So yeah, there's times when each song is listened to, but there's times when it's like, Hey, open the floodgates, whoever comes through comes through. It's actually easier for us because this is kind of like the managing expectations thing. We don't want people to have a negative because imagine artists apply and we say, Oh, no, sorry, we can't work here. They're gonna be like, man, after those guys, those guys are, they're going to get butter, right? So they're going to start talking shit about players pushed. So it's actually easy to become easier for us to just let in as many people as we can, as long as the production is there, and then clean it up on the back end. So if they run a campaign, they get zero results, we can give them a 50% refund, right? So it's easier to have systems in place on the back end, then listen to all this. Not all junk, but I mean, man, some of the music that gets sent to us is like, it's kind of scary. It's like recorded into a tin can. And basically do talking. So it's gotten kind of wild. But I think that has become easier for us is to open the fog lights on the front end, but take care of people when the campaign wraps and make sure that, you know, they're not just like left hung out to dry. Gotcha. Interesting. Interesting. So the play listers don't get pretty picky with things? I mean, it depends. Like we have the targeting pretty dialed and also for the curators, they get paid either way. They get paid $1 to $15 per song, whether they add it or not. So that's how the entire system works. So they like get paid basically to review, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I mean, some curators, they want a ton of songs. Some curators are like, Hey, only send me like five a week. So it kind of just depends. But most of them like, they want to hear more music or, you know, they're happy to listen to more songs. Got it. Interesting. Okay, dope. So is there anything that you just feel like it will be helpful to know for artists, whether it's about playlist push or just even about how you view these playlists in the marketplace as a whole? Is there anything you want to kind of leave people with? Um, I think, yeah, I mean, that's tough. I think the biggest thing honestly is because there's the toughest thing right now is distribution, right? So it's like, Hey, do I use this company? Do I use tune core? Like what's the best one? And there's a lot of artists that would say, Oh, yeah, I don't want to give away a percentage of my music. I want to just own everything. Well, yeah, you can do that. But everything's on you. You have to do everything. It's actually easier if you can find a good distributor who's actually taking a percentage who's a little bit more invested in what you're doing, that has those direct relationships with Spotify, Apple Music, Deezer, whatever, to actually plug your music in if it's good. It's kind of low hanging fruit if you're an artist. It's like, what's the point of keeping everything if you're making zero, right? So I think that's kind of something that people don't even really think about. They're just like, Oh, I gotta get my music out there. I'm just going to use X distributor to do that. So I think it's keep in mind like those people have they're delivering the music to those services, right? Someone there knows someone at Spotify or Apple Music. So that's one. And then I think, you know, when you're ready to get in the playlist game, like make sure you're dialed, like make sure you've got your bio filled out, make sure you have, you know, Spotify artists dialed, you're submitting your songs two weeks before it comes out. Those are all kind of basic things that not everyone does. Got it. So taking care of your your whole profile and those basic, you know, crossing eyes and no, crossing T's and dying eyes. And then the other thing is really considering indie distributors more. Yeah, got you. Got you. I don't hear people talk much about those as well. I'm certain that's definitely interesting take and I appreciate it. So yeah, for sure. You're going to put this on YouTube, right? At some point, I will. It'll start in the network. There'll be highlights on YouTube for sure. Cool. I mean, I can drop a comment with like a couple articles as well. When you do that to that on that subject, for sure. Perfect. Well, other than that, do you want people to follow you? Or do you want to follow playlist push? I know you don't necessarily move when I need a lot of follows and things like that. Yeah, not really. I mean, just go to playlist push.com. There we go. You can follow me on Twitter. It's demo drop George. I'm pretty active on there. That's probably the best, probably least active on Facebook. So got you. Don't bother sending me a friend request. Facebook. All right, cool. Hey, as always, everybody, this video is brought to you by brandmannetwork.com. If you like it, go ahead and like button. If you like it, might as well share it then do not subscribe. You know what to do. Hit that subscribe button.