 This is ThinkTech and this is Community Matters and we're talking about science today. We like to talk about science with the Hawaii Science Fair, which is part of the Academy of Science, the Hawaii Academy of Science. We have the Vice Chair of the Academy and the Fair, Wayne Kamataki. Hi, Wayne. Thank you for being here, Wayne. Hi, Jay. Thank you very much for having us on your show. We really appreciate the opportunity to meet. As I start this, I'm sorry, go ahead, Jay. Yeah, I just want to say hello to Tony Dang and Kelly Mukai, who will be introduced in greater detail in a moment by Wayne. Go ahead, Wayne. Okay, yeah. Just as a background on science through the Hawaii Academy of Science, this year was our 64th Hawaii State Science Fair, or yeah, it's 64th. And I'm proud to say, you know, in the middle of COVID last year, we're right in the middle of having a live fair and then in an instant, we were canceled. We had one month to put together and we ended up putting together a virtual fair last year. And we're proud to say that I think we were one of the only states in the country that held a fair in a virtual form. Most other states just did not have a state fair last year. We polished up on our efforts and this year, we continued with, again, because of COVID, we continued with our second virtual fair this year. And I'd like to just give you some statistics on where we are. So we had a virtual fair that started at the school level. We started with around 3000 projects across the state. It represented a decrease of about 50% of what it was a normal participation. But given that it was done virtually because of COVID, 3000 was a very good number. We had 620 projects make it to the district fair and 310 projects that made it to the state fair. And all islands, Maui, the big island, and Kauai, and Oahu participated. 23 of the projects qualified and are going to continue on to the ICES, what we call ICES, the International State Science and Engineering Fair in May, sponsored by Regeneron. And we were able to... Regeneron. Yes, Regeneron. Regeneron is a pharmaceutical company that makes therapeutics for COVID. That is something. Right. They stepped in as a sponsor, the fair now. And I'd also like to give recognition to Student Corner. It's a local company that helped put together the virtual fair for us. And if you were able to go and watch how the students and the judges presented on Zoom, it was first class. And we really appreciate Student Corner being as our partner in putting this fair together. At this time, I'd like to introduce the top three winners this year are all from Iolani School. And we're... It must be the water. It's the water there. In the drinking fountains, this is something special at Iolani. Yeah. I want to give kudos to Iolani. Well, who we have, the top three winners were from Iolani. But just two of them were able to attend today. And I'd like to introduce them to you. The first person is Tony Dang. He was the first place winner at the fair. And the next person on our screen is Kelly Mukai. And she was a third place winner. So I want to congratulate them for their work. And I'll turn this over to you, Jay, to have fun interviewing them. I will. 620 applicants. That is really something, especially to do it on virtual. And can you visualize 620 in the convention center or in Blaisdell is quite an enormous number of people. And to find we have the top one and three from all of those projects right here today that's fabulous. It's symbolic. It's emblematic of what we have. So as we talk to them, we learn about everybody, we learn about everybody who was competing and what kinds of things they were doing. And I have always enjoyed being at the science fair since the first time, which was many years ago when I ran into Neil Atabara and he explained it all to me. I've always been a big fan of the Academy and the science fair and especially of the winners. And you guys, your kids may not realize, but there is a long list of winners who have gone and done great things in their lives. And they all came out of the science fair, you know, including Neil Atabara, which is something. Anyway, so Tony, let's talk to you first. I'd like to know what kind of project you had, how it worked and how it contributed to humanity. Okay, nothing much. Why don't you tell us what you did? Hi, everyone. I'm Tony Dan. I'm a senior from Yolani school. And my project is really about using AI to diagnose glaucoma from the backside image of the eyeball. I can share a screen of the website I developed. So this is a website I made using React, and I'm able to upload the image of the fundus. This is the backside of the eyeball. And if I hit predict, I'll put the results of whether you had glaucoma under 30 seconds. And this really helps with we have like a lot of total word blindness. They are living in low income countries where vision care is inaccessible. And if they have this website, they can do a glaucoma test at home so they can prevent the progression of glaucoma from blindness. And I also add some more information in the website. Oh, coma mark. Well, let me let me unpack that a little with you. Why is glaucoma? Glaucoma is a chronic eye disease. And it's easy to treat at this early stage, but it's hard to detect. It's asymptomatic until blindness. And when the patients find out there is a severe loss of vision in their eye, it's already reached to a terminal stage glaucoma. And terminal stage glaucoma is kind of very difficult to treat. And the vision loss from that is incurable. And many, many people are getting blind for this. Glaucoma is also the second leading cause of blindness in the world. Is it bilateral or one eye at a time? It's bi-hydro. Oh, interesting. And what is the, you know, biological process in the eye that leads glaucoma that causes glaucoma and makes it worse? When the when we have glaucoma, the eye pressure in our eyeball will start to increase. And such eye pressure will make damage to the optic nerve. And that's how we lost our vision. Is there anything you can do to improve your chances? To get recovered? Well, to avoid it in the first place. Oh, yeah. One of the most useful way is to do a glaucoma test annually. Just do it every year. And if we find out early, we can do some treatment to lower this process. What kind of treatment? Basically, the ophthalmologist will give you some of the eye jobs, and you just job it into your eyeball. And this reduces the pressure in the eyeball, and thus the deterioration of the eye. Okay, now I want to talk about your website, which is remarkable. So are we saying here today, in public, in front of Wayne and Kelly, that you can determine through a high degree of certainty from a website, whether the individual looking at the website is likely to get... Are we saying that? I'm pretty sure this website can be a pre-processing, I mean a pre-screening of glaucoma. This... I use the data sets of 5,000 images, and they are all collected from different databases made by different hospitals. You know that sounds just like AI, doesn't it? Yeah, it's all by AI, and the accuracy of it is 97%. Okay. The example you just showed us on the share screen was 99%, but hey, 97, 99, I'm going either way. So let's talk about how this system, the website using the, I suppose the camera on the website, will scan your eye and determine the probability of glaucoma. How does that work? The system I use is called convolutional neural networks, and it's a subset of machine learning. Basically, you will learn from the features of the image and save such patterns in your algorithm, and I will just upload a series of turns of images labeled with, oh, this set has glaucoma, this set has glaucoma, this set is healthy, and I just put them through the system, and the system will calculate the weight on each of the features in the image. So after this processing is done, we can upload a new image that is not involved in training, and the system will tell, well, classify this image between healthy, always glaucoma, and tell you the accuracy of how certainty the system is that the image that's uploaded into the system has glaucoma or not. Yeah, sure. So it sounds like somewhere in here, you have a number of photos of glaucoma eye would look like and what a normal eye would look like, and you're using this artificial intelligence type of program to compare what it sees in the eye of the beholder. You like that? Okay, so how many images do you take of the eye to to run that program? 5500, but I also use some techniques called data augmentation to enlarge the data sets, so basically I will have, I guess, 30k or something. Okay, oh, that's a lot. And of course you do one eye at a time, so you have to get the person lined up so that the camera can see that eye. Does it give instructions to the user about how to sit and where to sit and how to, you know, face the machine so that the camera gets a good gets good sampling of pictures? Oh, the website does not have a camera feature, it just diagnose glaucoma from the upload camera of the fundus. And the way to taking such kind of image is actually the second part of my project. So I found a paper that kind of invent a newly cheap portable and safe camera that can take a photo of the fundus. So it's not the camera in the computer, it's a separate photo or series of photos. I guess it's photos in a video because you need a number of them, right? You don't sit there and take 55 photos. No, you take a video of that eye with this device. Yeah, go ahead. You only need one photo. When I make the system, I need a series of photos to train them. One photo. So what's the difference between what you have and what is available on the market? What an ophthalmologist would use in his office to ascertain, you know, this problem? So the current fundus camera being used is called the fundus scope. And they are very large, expensive, and require expertise to use it. And when the patient use a camera, they have to use a dilation job to dilate their pupil so that osomologists can see the fundus of the eyeball. However, the camera I developed is on the research of someone else. It does not require dilation. And it's $1,000 cheaper than a traditional fundus scope. And it's also portable. It's as large as a smartphone. And my thinking is if we can kind of disseminate this kind of camera to developing countries, people in developing countries were able to take a fundus image of their eyeball without any expertise. And they can upload those fundus images to my website to make a glaucoma screening in developing countries. You used the term fundus? What term is that again? Can you spell it? Fundus scope is like a fancy word to say fundus camera. Okay. Spell the word fungus. Fundus is the backside of the eyeball. You knew that, Wayne, right? I read his projects. Okay, all right. That's terrific. I cheated. Kelly, you know it, too, because you've been talking before you came here today. So, okay. So now you said that it was part of the same system. But in fact, it's a different project. You're still working on that project. So there are two projects here. One is the website and one is the camera. Am I right? Yes. I already built a camera, but I didn't bring it here. That's okay. Maybe next time. Wayne, you have to do this again. Okay. So my question to you is why this project? Anybody around you have problems with laser horizon? Yeah. This is kind of cliche, but my grandma is actually diagnosed glaucoma. And the reason why she was diagnosed is she lived really far away from the vision care clinic. And she's not able to get a regular, like a regular IV vision test. And when she found out she has glaucoma, it's already in a severe, it's terminal state injury. And I just think it's pretty tragic to lose someone's eyeset when the disease is preventable. Fantastic. I think that's wonderful. What about science in general? What are your thoughts about science in your world and also in our world? I think it's a great place to learn and to challenge myself. Because before I do this project, I know nothing about linear algebra or AI or even coding. But after this project, I really learned a lot in the field I'm interested in. And that field is? Artificial intelligence and computer science. So what are you going to do? Now we open it up a little bit. We'll be with you in a minute, Kelly, I promise. I hope you're making notes. This is all going to be in the final exam. So what do you see for the future, Tony? What's your career look like now? You're a senior. And you're going to go to which one? UC Berkeley. UC Berkeley and eat flowers. What does it look like for you? How do you see your life unfolding if you have thought that far ahead? I'm planning to take a master's degree research in machine learning and artificial intelligence. And I want you to look up some application of machine learning that can actually improve people's lives. Fair enough. Nothing aspirational there. You know, before we move to Kelly, I got a movie I think you should watch. It's called Coded Bias. Coded Bias. And it's the story of artificial intelligence in our country. Very, very, very interesting. Get it on Netflix. You'll thank me. You'll write me an email and thank me for that. Okay, Kelly, let's talk to you. You're number three. How do you feel about being number three instead of number one or two? Tony's project was crazy. That was so good. Well, and you're a senior also. Do you like it? You know, Tony? Yes, for a classmate. What do you think of Tony? Wow, that was so good. Your project is amazing. Okay, let's talk about your project. What did you do? I engineered invasive algae and taro based bioplastics. Bioplastics being biodegradable plastics made from renewable resources. Okay. So that's what? Biochemistry? Or material science? Material science. Thank you. Thank you. I hope you're taking notes, you know, because Wayne, you're going to have to be on the final exam too. Okay. And what did you discover in the plastics? Well, that's the bioplastic industry is a really expanding industry. And I think by 2030, it was said that it's supposed to take up 40% of the plastic industry with the value of $324 billion. So I really wanted to, you know, be a part of the future of plastics. So you want to change the world? Hopefully. So what did your exhibit look like? Did it have plastics in it? The bioplastics? The bioplastic is made up of invasive algae and taro. Did you make some? Yes. So I had to extract the agar from the invasive algae that I collected from Haiti up here. And then I extracted taro starch from taro and then mixed those with vinegar and glycerin to create the bioplastic. Wow. A lot of local elements. Yes. We could do that. We could manufacture here, couldn't we? Yeah. So if I get bioplastics, the good points, obviously, is that it is degradable. And that is important for the world. And for all the animals in the sea, if you will, and for the sea in general. So that's very important. We've been trying to do that for a long time, as you said. What are the negative points of it? For example, if I use a fork or a paper or a plastic bag made with bioplastics, is there anything about that that's not as good as it should be? Am I going to wind up digesting some of this stuff? And is it good for me if it dissolves in my mouth? Oh, so actually last year, my research was on engineering a bioplastic straw that I was able to use by bioplastic as a functional straw. And it didn't end up, I didn't end up ingesting any of it. So I think it works out that way. But I guess in comparison to other bioplastics, in order for it to be videratable, it has to have some water absorption. So that could be one issue. Okay. So how do you test for the process of degrading so that it doesn't go too slow or too fast? Can we determine how long it's going to take for these bioplastics to degrade? Yeah, I think it depends on the environment. But for my bioplastic, I tested it in the Yolani School Garden. And it completely biodegraded in seven days. But within four days, it biodegraded 68%. So in comparison to other plastics, that's really quick. Wow. Yeah. That's why you can't leave it hanging around. Because if you let it hang around for a few days, you might find it this sort of goopy stuff in your drawer. Yeah. You thought you had to destroy and just mess, you know, goop. You have to make sure the biodegrading happens at a reasonable rate. Yeah. That was an issue like I had to look into. And that was a question that the judges kept asking me throughout the science process, was that I, the plastics that I created in 2019 are still present and not biodegraded to this day. So I think it just goes to show that if you package it correctly and keep it in like a clean environment, then they should last as long as needed. Yeah, sure. And you can control it, right? And you change the manufacturing process a little here and there and make it last longer or not. So what's the manufacturing process like? You have to cook this. You have to stir it. How do you take all these elements that you mentioned and make them into a bioplastic? Okay. So with the agar extracted from the invasive algae and the taro started to extract it from the taro, I put it into a beaker and I place it on a hot plate and then combined the vinegar, glycerin and water and then heated that up into a mixture and then poured that mixture onto a pan and then placed that pan into an incubator and then left that completely dry and then I was able to peel off the plastic. How long does it take? How long does a bioplastic take to make? Yeah. It was kind of a long process because the agar extracted in itself was a 16-day process. So I think like all in all, that's why it's been taking me like two years because this is a continuation from projects to create the final. Yeah, right. A lot of the that's true. And you and I know that way and a lot of these projects go on for years and keep going on and actually in some cases they define the life and career of the students who adopt these projects. It becomes a passion and it gets more and more powerful. So where does this fit in industry? Where does it fit in my life? Am I going to see this on a commercial scale? Is that where it's heading, Kelly? Well, for my cost effectiveness on my bioplastic, I calculated that a bioplastic bag like costs around 13 cents to produce and this is kind of comparable to other bad readable plastic bags which are like 10 cents. And so hopefully in the future if I were able to scale up that price would go down even more and then we could maybe see it in stores one day, hopefully. That would be something very important. Is there anybody else who's competing with you? Are there international or international biochemical, bioplastic organizations that are making this kind of material? Well, I think all bioplastics are different in their own ways. I don't think there's any making invasive algae and taro based bioplastic, but I do know that there's bioplastics made out of like corn starch and potato starch which are like much cheaper but then the taro starch has better water resistance properties. That's the special element that's got the taro material, so it's got a certain Hawaii quality to it and we could manufacture it here. That's a fabulous thought. We haven't actually exported anything like that in a long time so this would be a great export, wouldn't it? I can see the factory quality. So why did you get into this in the first place? Do you have relatives who have suggested this to you? Have you been reading about it for years and years? Why? Well, first I saw a video of the turtle with the straw seconded snow and that was crazy how a straw could almost kill a turtle and then from there I really looked into the plastic pollution issues in Hawaii and then stumbled across bioplastic and then looking more into bioplastics I realized that I was able to actually create my own bioplastic on my own and then in order to make the bioplastic significant to Hawaii I combined the invasive algae and the taro. It was for the turtles then? Yes. I remember there was, I think it was in San Francisco International Airports, there was an exhibit about sea animals that ate plastic and I mean regular non-biodegradable plastic and they had one open, you know, where the whole animal was full of the stuff. Can imagine the pain and agony this animal went through. All the internal organs were covered with plastic. So if you look, if you look at what's his name, Arthur Attenborough, Richard Attenborough, he's on, he's on Netflix. I'm making another movie recommendation, Donnie. Richard Attenborough and it's called Life on the Planet and what it tells us is that the whole planet has had, you know, a long time to integrate all its systems, all its biological systems and everything works in harmony whether you realize that or not and all the animals, every animal, every insect is all connected. It's all part of our, you know, global, you know, ecosystem and so we have to protect them because if we make them go extinct, we will pay a price we don't even know what that price is. So what about your future in science? Are you going to stay in science? Is this a passing fancy or a career? Well, I'm hoping to concentrate in engineering with maybe a focus in environmental engineering. So hopefully I can continue in the field of science. That's great. What school again? Brown University. Brown University. I told you, good friend of mine went there and had only good to say about Brown. And Brown has a lot of science, doesn't it? And research opportunities. Yeah, good for you, good for you both. So let's see if we can find some takeaways on this. Tony, what would you like people to remember about your experience and about the science fair? What would you like to leave with them today? Something profound, if you don't mind? I think it's a great opportunity to challenge yourself to learn about something new that you're interested in. Even though it looks like it's really difficult or hard to achieve, it's a long process for you to learn about some new stuff. Amen to that. And Kelly, how about you? What would you leave with people about the lessons of your own life experience and your own plans and science? What would you like them to remember about this discussion? Yes, I agree with Tony. It's going to be a difficult journey to get to where you want to be. But if you're patient and you just continue to work hard, then you can do whatever you want. And you'll find something that you're really interested in. I bet it's the best life, isn't it? What do you think, Wayne? Are they right? Yes, they are. And Minoji, I want to thank you for creating the opportunity to allow Tony and Kelly to showcase their work. For us, the idea that they're doing these projects all in their independent time above and beyond their schoolwork. And when you look at the depth and the broad range that they study, it's pretty amazing what our young students can do. And I'm happy to say that in the Hawai'i Academy of Science is able to present a venue for them to do that. I also wanted to add, and I was remissing that earlier, saying Amy Weintraub is our director. And it was through her vision that we were able to put on the virtual fairs over the last two years. And it's been magnificent. But again, the idea for me is allowing young students to use the critical thinking process, have that independence and initiative to search and communicate their findings is part of the process. And I look forward to both of them becoming future scientists. And hopefully, when they come back and add to Hawai'i's diversity as well in the kind of things that Hawai'i can do in future industries. Yeah, that's called paying it forward, don't it, Kelly? It means that, you know, you will, you will, thanks in part to the Hawai'i Science Fair and the Academy of Science, you will, you will be successful. And you will do well in college. And two of you, I know that now, it's not even a question. And you will go on to graduate school and you will study science. And you will, you will be achievers because you already are. But then you have to come back and you have to help other kids understand what it's like. And the prime example of that is guess who, Neil Atamara. Yes. Thank you, Neil. Thank you, Amy. Thank you, Wayne. Thank you, Tony. Thank you, Kelly. Great to have you on the show. And we wish you all the best in every way. Aloha.