 We used our right hand, they would say yes, left hand no, don't know. So what we're trying to ask our citizens is, what are you thinking is important to you? What services do you value? And if there's an opportunity to share whether it's with a village or another community, we'd like to hear it. And if at all possible, put the town of Essex, whether it's 36 square miles with a village inside of it that's still part of the town, or 31 square miles with an independent city next to it, in the best possible place it could be for when the state makes a decision. That's our goal. Okay, so Betsy, how's the city with you now? Because I'm preparing now to try to figure out how I can take some of what you're paying attention to and make sure that it's quantified here in some way. Given all of that context, what are you still holding as something you're paying attention to? I think that we are trying to make, I understand you're trying to take it and make the question of the village that they pay twice and they don't want to pay twice. And take that out of the issue. The issue of whether they should separate or not. That's what I'm doing is, you are making that taxi quality that is one of their major focuses and trying to obliterate them. And that wouldn't be because they are paying more. They actually pay quite a lot for what they do. Okay, again, but they also aren't getting the services from the town that they complain they're not. They're only having about five percent of the money that they send that they are not getting the services. Yeah, so Betsy. And so that feels like to me that you are not, no it's not. That staff is saying let's level it and make it so that they don't have that tax on the police and they don't have that tax on the rolling stock. They don't have the tax that would cover the fire department and that would make it more palatable to them because they're not paying for that. Okay. And they're just doing their own thing. And so that's where I'm thinking it's like they're trying to make that issue go away. Okay, yep. So I'm going to, in part because I'm filling up the two information and I won't be able to catch that, but also because I try to figure out how to work with it. I think what I'm hearing you say it's frustrating, particularly as interim time because there's a direction if you knew that that separation is going to happen some of those decisions that made during interim time might be different because the town would know who's interested and who are they paying attention to and responsible for. What's tricky right now is until that decision is passed in me by the Vermont legislature and assuming that's correct, the town is still responsible for all residents village and town and to that tax equity as it's called although I know that's kind of problematic frame is still very much in the discussion. So how can I in a phrase or two and this might be tricky it might be too tall and ask in a phrase or two note what you're paying attention to during this interim. I think that's the bind that you've raised up and I'm not quite sure it's not an easy bind. Can I come back to you then in a bit? I'm going to put that down as one of these questions here then down the bottom. Why are we merging a shared continuing to plan for shared services if the ultimate goal is separation? Is that it? Sorry now that I'm scattered my typing is going to come out all funny sorry you are online. Why are we so I'm going to say merging shared services during this interim phase. I guess I would think that by doing this are we kind of making it so that the village thinks about why should we bother merging I mean separate. So I'm going to handle that one too for just a minute. I think probably some people might right and so I think part of what your concern is just what I'll add this you know what signal is this sending because it could be interpreted in any different that's great that's great and it's a reflection point rather than it's asking people to be mindful of it. I also recognize that is it almost an impossible question to for anyone to answer it's a really tricky position that residents and elected officials and several in right now in this one. Okay so I'm going to actually go to open comment because I think we sort of started there anyway and then as we have clarifications for staff about any of the things that Greg presented or other pieces that come up let's just roll that into the discussion. Folks who are online is it really difficult for you to hear the people in the audience and guessing it is if we could just monitor that Greg because we might have to get people closer to the microphone. Great so if you attended one here's how I'm going to suggest that we start and take the comments if you've attended and spoken at one of the choir forums on the fourth or the sixth I'm going to ask you just to hold your comment for now in order to give some room for folks who haven't attended any of the forums yet for both online and in person and it's sort of an honor system because I don't have a memory of all the different people who have spoken. Can't guarantee that everyone will have a chance to speak but of course that's our goal and let's see. You may find that I interrupt every now and then to make sure just like with Betsy that I understand what you're trying to get from each edge and interrupting is one of the tools I have to figure out if I'm on the same track because I do fill up with information you have much more literacy in these topics than I do. If you are calling just on the phone I don't know if this is relevant or not I believe you've got the star five if you want to raise your hand and you're just calling in but we'll see. Let's go to an online comment and see how the audio is working there and then we'll come back and take comments in the room and we'll just talk back and forth that way. So Sue Hale if you haven't gotten a chance to speak on the fourth or the sixth do you have something you'd like to add now? Yes hi can you hear me? We can hear you great that's wonderful thanks. My name is Sue Hale and I've lived in the village and the town of Essex on and off for 37 years. So in this interim phase I am going to be looking at communication. I expect my select board representatives to inform the public, communicate with the trustees in a timely manner and negotiate in good faith. You can tell I'm reading this I will be I'll be looking go ahead. Well so I'm going to just some of these things have come up also and I'm wondering if are you talking about you say negotiate good faith what does that mean? When they're trying to figure out who's going to do what and when. If we're going to share services what is the village going to get and give and what is the town going to get and give? Right just right because we don't know what's going to happen in the end this is something that I just it's the good faith chart that really is important to me and I think that they are but I think it's also worth talking about. So I'm going to be looking for them yeah go ahead. How would you know how do you know if negotiate in good faith or not? I have been attending and watching the select board and the trustee meetings for about a year now and I can see that I can see it I can see it so you see it from just sort of watching the tenor of the exchanges and the non transparency or input that public is getting from what we are considering? Exactly because by going to these types of public forums we can understand what people want and And, you know, part of being a citizen, I think, is being a little bit of a police dog about this stuff and waving your hand when, right? Waving your hand when it doesn't feel like it's quite right or something's off. Exactly. Okay, did you have more comment? I did. Yeah. So I'm gonna be looking for the select board to be proactive in their communications with us and to look for creative ways to inform town residents, especially those of us who don't want to get their information from social media, to inform town residents what's going on at each step in very plain, simple language. People wanna know what's going on with this process and they wanna know the facts, but they'll settle for their neighbor's five minute understanding of the facts, which as we know is usually just a giant game of telephone. You never know what you're gonna get in the end. So I encourage the select board to advertise, make signs, make videos, make do whatever is needed with drawings and little stick figures if necessary, maybe a page of the website that debunked some of the myth that like the Essex players getting kicked out, which didn't happen, that the trustees are being demanding of the select board. Those things didn't happen. I saw those meetings and that's just not what happened, but it's much more complicated on the websites to find out what the real story was. So a little bit of myth debunking, I think would go a long way in helping to pave the way for clear communication. You know, just an observation from some of the forms that came before and what you've just noted about, it's hard to know how things go down. So what you're looking for are sort of the facts, but also just recognizing that as people interpret those facts and interpret exchanges in different ways that those spins are, that's part of the conversation and that's part of the exchange that everyone's having with each other. And that's absolutely true. And I think that, I mean, unfortunately, people are much more liable to trust what the guy down the street says than what actually happened. And they're not gonna sit and listen to all these meetings. And I mean, it's, I love this kind of stuff. And I sometimes find it very difficult to slog through those meetings as the committee members do. I just, I just, I'm looking for sort of a clearinghouse. If I have a question on topic A, where can I find topic A and maybe come across topic B at the same time? You're looking for an anchor so that as inferences start to fly, there's a place that someone could go and just get the basic facts. Okay. Yes, exactly. Yep. Did you have other comments? That is it. Thanks, Sue. Thank you. Let's see how the audio is here in Limes. Anybody here in the public have a comment they'd like to share? If you haven't, yes, come on. I think what we're gonna do, I don't think just come forward a little bit further and then try to project your voice and let's try to hear. Don't care about that. Yeah. Don't care about that. Probably for this thing, if you wanna take off your mask for it. Can I? Yeah. Okay. And then let's see how it here. Okay. We're six feet away. Yes, we are. How is that for folks online? Can you hear? I'm sorry, your name? My name is Megan Humphries. Can you hear Megan? We're gonna assume you guys unless we see something in the chat. Okay. All right. So, first, thank you to the town and to you, Jen, for doing this and for hearing out concerns of what has been a very long and very emotionally charged time for our community. So thank you. My name is Megan Humphries. I live in the town outside the village. I have three kids. Nine-year-old Mason who goes to Essex, or sorry, Founders Memorial. It's not in Essex Middle yet. And two seven-year-old twins who attend. And we've lived here for six years. We moved from Westford where my husband had lived before we got married. And choosing Essex was a big deal for us when we were deciding to move closer to a town from Westford with little kids. And some of my concerns and things I'm watching for are directly related to why we picked Essex to be good with. I also work remotely from home. I'm in healthcare communications and marketing. I've worked for a time at the UVM Health Network as well. And so I come at this from a communications perspective and want to both voice my concern but also listen to others who I believe people are coming from a well-intentioned place. I think it does all serve better. We are all served better when we try to do that. So I have not been a part of this debate for a very long. I have always voted, but I've always sort of trusted that what was right for the town would end up in the end. I have seen the emotions surrounding the debate and people feel very passionately on both sides. I believe that being one strong community and continuing to be one strong community will serve Essex better in the end. And I'll talk about my concerns related to that as well. So I'm gonna just catch it so far. And it's sort of like a meta picture first, right? Yes. Which is I care about this town. I'm watching how the discourse happens and it doesn't get so divisive that it no longer feels like a welcoming good place to be. Yes. And I fear we've already arrived at that place. So pulling back from that place or forging a path. So you're trying to figure out how does this continue to happen from here forward? Because every exchange is changeable. You think how do you start to steer it back towards a place where you can meet each other? Exactly. I'm gonna make a note there and I'll keep listening while you. Great, go. Merger has failed several times at the voting box. I believe that is because of misinformation, lack of good communication, lack of clear and transparent scenarios that could have been put in front of voters before the vote. For example, when I watched Sarah Macy's finance descriptions both from September and from April, she did an excellent job sort of outlining the financial picture of how we are already so intertwined. Yes. And speculation about unwinding those that connectedness has driven two halves of our community in a really divisive way. And it makes people wanna run away from it. It makes people disengage. It makes people not show up here when they haven't been a part of the fight for so long. And I think it turns people off. I think it's embarrassing. I listened to the government oversight committees three plus three consideration of the change in our town charter. I was listening to their comments and they were like, they were very confused over they wanna charter change, but now they might separate what's going on in Essex. It doesn't set our town up to be strong and to attract people, attract business, attract families for the future. It makes people either embarrassed or disengaged from the whole thing. And I don't think that serves our town as a whole well in the future. Specifically, I'm concerned, Greg, you mentioned something earlier about the 42% of the tax base. I've thought a lot about this both from Sarah's presentation, but also in listening to several select board meetings and trustee meetings. It seems to me that the 42% if separation occurs, 42% pulls away from the overall town budget. That creates a massive fall. It also reduces some services, right? So you have to take the difference between some, the difference between some of that on lining and that 42%. We don't know having clarity around a scenario or several scenarios that would show the difference between the 42% and where that might be would be really helpful because it would fill in the gap where people are speculating, right? Is this just like the fire department? Is this just a merger without merging? Is this merging without separating? What are your intentions? If there were scenario ABC that talked about removing the 42% of the tax base, what does that mean for the town? What does that mean for the village under several circumstances? We could talk about that. We could debate that. We could react to that. Instead, I see select board chair, Andy Watts, saying, we don't want to scare people in the press, right? When asked about this exact thing, he said, well, we don't really know and we don't know and we don't want to scare people. And we are now in an environment where people are jumping to conclusions, making up lies, misinformation, because they're scared and that's understandable, okay? So this is oversimplifying, but let's see if it catches it. You know, it's de-stabilizing to not know and part of this is just not knowing, but what you're working towards to not shy away from that, the pretty truth of not knowing, but then also what can be known or forecasted about this gap. Correct. So the way I wrote it here is we'd be helpful to have scenarios or better information about the implications of removing 42% of the tax base for the town, for the village, probably amid different scenarios. That's actually a huge ask. It's a lot of work. It is an incredible amount of work. But any information in there, what you're saying is it will help stabilize what we're wondering about. And it will help bring a framework to our thinking right now where history, pain, and emotion are now filling that vacuum. Okay. So a framework to help think about it or sort of perhaps so people can understand and nuance about it would be. Correct. So you have it. Correct, okay. And if none of the scenarios are the right ones, we'll know that. But it's an attempt to bring that transparency and that level-headedness back to this debate that isn't constantly accusatory. Yeah, okay. Finish this part. Yeah, please. So some of these notes are gonna get edited a bit for brevity, but I just can't do it quite on the fly. But I've got here. Even a framework to think about, even a framework might support a level and it had a discussion rather than it feels like an emotional thing. Right, yeah. The fire is an option, right? That's an option to consider. Yet it's being cast as this behind-the-scenes thing that I believe it is simply not, okay? My second concern, as a mom of three, beautiful kiddos, I'm concerned about any impact that affects the delivery of childcare services in SXREP and EJRP. I know that that has come up in previous sessions and that has been alleviated some. I also emailed Brad luck to learn that EJRP is tied to the school district, which is already serving the whole community and more. And that makes me feel better. The one thing though, that I wanna reinforce to you guys in the select board is, not only do I think we need to preserve the alignment with SXREP and EJRP because that alignment, they have not merged, that alignment has already saved taxpayers thousands of dollars. They work together, they program together, they execute separately, but it's already been very successful. As a town resident, participating in both programs put on by both departments, I've seen an overall increase in the level of care and support and programming that my children have access to. And I'm very grateful for that. I think there needs to be more of that alignment, more of that planning, increase childcare services. Like we shouldn't just be talking about not destroying the good thing that we have. We know that, you know, for the last row of kids, Vermont, over 50% of Vermont children do not have access to high quality childcare. It affects our workforce shortage situation. It affects our businesses. It affects our tax base. It affects people who move here. So it is my concern that the select board not only find a way to make sure what has been built does not get destroyed, but also is, I would advocate for an expansion of those services to make sure, again, for the families in our community, for the tax base, for the jobs that that provides, for the tax base that that grows, for the strength of our overall town, it was critically important that we not let, not only do not destroy it, but make it better. Yep. So some of these things came up and just in these bucket terms, so affordability, availability, and applicability, but I think what you've added is not looking just to retain what's available, but to increase it. And you connected those with the alignment of the departments. There's a different note there, whether or not that can still happen, they're not aligned. I also think the connection between, people often say, well, I don't have kids at home or I never had kids. So my concern is not childcare or I don't take part in the Essex rec program. So I don't need them. I don't want them. Having them is inextricably late to the overall strength and attractiveness in our town. The viruses, yeah. Correct. And we need workers. We need, we need businesses. We need a tax base to have a town. I believe it is central to the success of our town to have this vibrant option because we want to attract people and businesses and jobs in the future. So I am, sir, I am mindful of time. I think I've got some of those. What, how much? I think I only have one more. I was asking, where are you in the lineup? Yep, no, there was three. So the last concern was separation's impact on our town's readiness to meet the challenges of the next generation. Our state is facing very difficult reality. Population shrinking, our workforce shortages, the challenges the pandemic has brought. There are bigger picture issues and forces that we have to reckon with as a town to be, have a skilled workforce, reduce any debt, plan for the future. We are in competition and Vermont has been fortunate in the pandemic in that we've attracted some population to the state because of our policies and our strength in our communities. I believe Vermont is an opportunity and within Vermont, I fear that because of all of this and because we are constantly putting ourselves in this place where it's us versus them, the Hatfields and the Coys, divorcing parents, whatever analogy you want to use, we are not going to be considered a great option for families to choose to move to, like we did. We were looking at Williston, we were looking at South Burlington and we were looking at Essex. People won't want to move here. It is going to not only divide and destroy the things that are good about being here, I worry, but it also does not set Essex up for the future. So it's distracting on two fronts. There's been comments about the bigger picture of all the other critical pieces there are to work on, that this effort is, it feels mutually exclusive and it's taking energy away from. And I think you've also talked about just the pro-longs. What that pro-longs limbo does is it radiates out certain impressions. It doesn't draw what you want to draw. I believe, I'm going to check my notes, but I believe that's it. I know that this has been painful for a lot of people for a long time. It is not easy to be a public servant. I grew up, my dad has been on the village board my entire life, so I understand down in Grandville, New York. So I understand the position that public servants are in and I just, I wish for a better, more unified outcome for everybody. Let's shift to a comment online. Again, I'm going to look for folks who haven't spoken in one of the other two forums first. Anyone online who hasn't gotten a chance to speak yet on the 4th or the 6th, we have something to say. So there's a hand raised by Patty. Patty, are you, I don't know what the last name is though on that. Patty, you've been able to speak at the other two forums or do you have something to say today? I didn't attend the last forum. I'm sorry, I just unmuted. I didn't even see the last forum. I just wanted to comment on what Betsy Dunn was saying and Greg, and this last speaker was great actually. So I just wanted to say one comment. Maybe this would just kind of give you a visual. I've only been here six years also and I totally respect what the last speaker said about having our town attract millennials. My daughter's 28 and she wants to live in a town where like that speaker said, you know, this daycare and all the services. And I think because the town of Essex I've noticed at least in outside the town, you know, they're not just the rural areas, but the suburban area of Essex, there's a lot of empty nesters. And that's just an observation because my background is scientific data collecting and statistics. So I don't have that nice human background that last speaker had, which I totally admired. But public services, I've even spoken to some of these so-called neighbors and not just in my neighborhood that said, go ahead and raise our taxes. We really need our sidewalks plowed. It is a public health hazard. And I think the McCoy and whatever she gave that example, the Hatfields and McCoy syndrome is one of my clients actually said, okay, if the village has all their sidewalks plowed and you wanna be fair, don't plow anyone's sidewalks and then we'll be a unified town with no one sidewalks plowed. That's how, I'm just trying to give an example of the division that I've noticed is happening since I moved here. If we had our sidewalks plowed so that the many young children can walk to school and bike to school and just have those services in the suburban area of town, I also feel that the rural area of town, Ethan Lawrence spoke at a meeting and just wanted a culvert fixed and it takes for God's sake and ever. So I guess like that last speaker said, treat others as you wanna be treated so we all have the same services. And then maybe the communication would be much and the dialogue would be much more open and transparent between us. And if you have to raise the taxes to get a plow out here, damn it, raise them. But I got a concussion the first winter living here and I'm not even, I'm not elderly but I'm getting up there, but I'm not that old and I had to pay $3,000 for a CT scan and walking my dog right here on Allen Martin Parkway. And how fair is that? I mean, get it together. Well, I don't care for one town or two but if you wanna talk about fairness then please either don't plow the village sidewalk so all of us are fair or plow and hire someone and pay them well and increase our tax for that service. So we have it during this interim period, during this interim period, it is out of hand. I've never seen anything like it and I'm from Colchester, had three Beatles and never had a problem getting out of my neighborhood going to my job in ophthalmology for 34 years. Never had an issue. Thank you. Thank you, thanks. So there's a lot there. I think I'm hearing on a couple fronts. One is it's been said many times and it's in these notes about just the pain of how this discourse when it gets really divisive you don't wanna see things just winnowed down to the bare minimum. So you're always looking for ways to turn the conversation into something that's more nutritive than that. But they did add a little phrase of something that I thought that might be new around not just sort of availability but how complicated is it to make adjustments and have needs to be known. So it's not just the impact but then how do you actually stay in communication with each other about that? Hopefully that's accurate. We just bought the same services. That's all. I mean, we have 11,482 and a couple pregnant people on the street. So we'll round it up to 411,500 residents. It's a lot. So service availability, shared services. Again, is there anything Patty that I haven't captured or that you don't think is in these notes that you'd like me to add? Public safety, I'm willing to contribute my own money for wayfinding signs for the Saxon Hill Road area. This morning before I ran at 730 it was packed with six cars and we need wayfinding signs. I'm actually thinking about applying to the conservation committee for Essex and I wanna do something and contribute to this town and get those signs up. Thank you. Yeah, Patty, I'm not gonna take the signs down here because it's such a specific piece. I don't know if this is gonna be the right place to put it but... No, that's fine. But my point is I enjoy contributing to the town. I've donated 34 pots to the Essex Experience flower pots and if I have the money I wanna contribute somehow to make it better. And for all of us, I mean Essex Junction residents go to Saxon. I mean everybody's welcome. I love it. Thank you. Okay, thanks Patty. I was gonna let the talk be quick and just to see you. Do you have a comment in-house? Anyone who's here? Yes, please. Good morning, my name is Matt Cohen. I appreciate you guys holding this meeting, holding meetings you have been having especially at multiple times. This is fresh my mail that come in person just due to work and home life. Some of the things that some of our other speakers have said that's really touch-based out of what Maggie was saying. I really want our people to be educated. And what part of that is what does separation look like? What does that tax gaps, what are those scenarios look like? I understand it's a lot of work for a lot of people but how are we supposed to make a vote without being educated? How are we supposed to know what is gonna come down the line if there's a separation? How do we supposed to know what's gonna come down the line if we wanna continue with merging, you know, public safety system? We need to be educated on that. I've attended, you know, I've done online surveys. This has been a long-term issue for this town for years and years and years. It seems like the separation has come up and we're not taking the time we need to actually come up with true and honest evaluations of what we're going to see coming forward. And how, as a voter, am I supposed to come out to the polls and vote on an unknown? Yeah, so it's so complicated and when you're trying to, when you have a question in front of you and you see it at the poll, you're recognizing that there are implications here that you don't really know how to imagine them. Correct. And so I think it is on everyone's best interest to do that work, to do the extra mile that we're gonna need to see what are the scenarios? What is a 42% gap? What are the services that are needed and changing when that gap goes a different way? And how will that affect each person? I do think part of what we have in front of us, property taxes are not optional. We have to pay them. Everyone has to pay them. The, what is optional? Option tax, we should be adding that in, raising fees for that optional. So if I don't have the money in my budget to go buy a new chainsaw, I don't have to pay the extra money, the extra tax. But I have to pay my property taxes no matter what. Yeah. When we come down to our services and police services, the junction and the town outside the village, use about the same amount of police services as a whole. If we are going to continue operating in the same manner, let's keep it the same, just keep it fair and equal. Everyone pays the same amount. If we are going to be separate, let's do a study. Let's find out what was actually now needed. Do we need the same amount of officers to be handled by the town that was not including the village? I don't know. But we should have more information. That's really one of the big pieces on my end. We should have more information before we come forward and come up with a vote of what these things are gonna look like for us. Yeah, and yet those really, so it's looking for more information on taxes, budget and services and what the need there is. I mean, that's a pretty huge- That is a huge thing. That's why- It's just a huge act, right? Right, and that's what I'm saying. I think you actually, you truly need more time to get these studies done, to get this information in and back out to the public so we can be educated. When we have shared services and what services that we do wanna be shared, they should be shared equally throughout the town junction if we are sharing that. So just like Patty was saying, if there's sidewalk plowing and shared budget for that's handling of the junction, and it should also be handling the town and all the sidewalks in the town. Again, will that raise some taxes most likely? But if, or go the other way and say no one gets it. But it should be fair and equal across the entire community. And you're talking about during this interim phase- During any sort of shared budget we come together and we have any shared service. That should be shared and fair and equal across the entire community. Okay. And you're saying 50, 50, 50, 50, 50. Correct, correct. Whatever your assessed value of 50, 50 that we should share if we have a shared budget on like the police, we don't, the police don't respond just to incentive the village or just to outside. They respond to wherever they need to go. We are public service, public fire department. They should be responding if we're doing one whole budget for the entire, even though they're two different departments but there's a fire at Lowe's. The junction should be, it's going to be to beat the town to Lowe's as closer. They should be dispatched first, not second. They shouldn't have to wait for the town to get there and say, we might need help here. They're going to beat them there and they might save that building. So part of what you're saying is it's so tough, isn't it? Trying to look at a list like this and figure out all the nuances. Like the thought that you just presented is pretty massive. Correct. And then I think what you're saying is you're looking for what to anticipate with, for example, how these shared services are going to be paid for. But you're also talking about service availability delivery. Correct. If we are paying as a whole community, as one community, which we are right now, we are one community. If we are paying for these services as a whole community, they should be serving the entire community. So embedded in there, is there something, how can I capture that piece? You can probably give me a shortcut in terms of what you really want the software to know, even in a phrase, especially if it's not here already. Um, mainly as we look at our budgets and where we have a merged funding coming in, where we are covering a service for the entire town. Is that service being applied to everybody in the town? Okay, that's what you're paying attention to. Yeah, how are merge services being distributed? Yes. Great. That's helpful. And you're evaluating that. This is an ongoing evaluation. Correct. And then if we become a separate entities, are those services going to still remain available to everybody? Or are we having completely separate options? And I think my last comment here is as a whole, economically, economics, we do better and share the cost more as a giant community. We should all be also be voting shared cost together. If there's a vote being held for only and only recognizing a small section of that community and being utilized by a small section of community, why should the whole community pay for it without? Okay, I'm going to try to translate this one too. And I'm going to try to translate, this one goes right to the heart of the issue of a town and a village embedded in it. Correct. And I think, and again, there's sort of these development and exploration of the separation happening right now. So during this interim phase, are you giving some feedback around the voting or are you looking for... That should be, if we are voting on any sort of merged or shared plan... For the interim. For the interim. It needs to be shared across and approved across the board. Okay, you're wondering, how does that book get represented? Correct. Let me see how I can catch that. I'm kind of looking at how negotiation of issues related to separation and independence takes place, but I'm also looking at representation here. You don't have to be stuck here, but I'm just going to put it at the bottom. How do these things get voted on? How do interim arrangements? Should be voted on. How do they get to be? How are they going to do this? Okay, Matt. And I'd just like to thank everyone for putting your input and having your time and taking the few minutes to listen and everyone has a question for me. I gave you some big issues. For the audience, I can see Matt. He typed out his questions and his thoughts. That's pretty good, sir. Thank you. Let's take a comment on Erin. Again, I'm looking for people who weren't able to speak on either the fourth or the sixth. Greg, can we keep some opposite? Mary, did you speak? Have you spoken yet or is this your first question? No, I haven't. I spoke to you about whether I'd be able to speak at this one, but I have not spoken in any form yet. Okay, very close. Okay. I feel like that we're kind of putting the cart before the horse here, maybe. That the one thing that's not, that I don't believe has really been addressed in a way that's really helpful is what's happened to the two communities and how we feel about each other. There is so much nastiness, so much distrust. It's just gotten to be quite, quite awful. And I'm not sure that throwing money at things and making things equal is gonna make it better. It might even make it worse. I feel like we need to start with trying to build the community first and see where we go. Speaking from a personal standpoint, and I'm almost afraid to because it's been my experience now and I'm sure they experienced some others on both sides where you make one comment or write one letter and immediately you get attacked back. And it gets to the point where you don't even wanna speak. Some of us have been extremely involved in going to meetings, having our own meetings on the side to participate, what we were all taught in school to participate in your community. And when you do that, it seems like if you are not in agreement with what the majority wants, you're labeled a troublemaker. And I think that these forms have been okay, Jen, I think you're doing a very good job, but because of the energy around all this, we noticed, and I don't think this was done on purpose, I honestly don't, but we've noticed that for those of us that have been real active, we immediately in, not only in this forum, because it has happened in this forum, but during the select board meetings and trustee, well, I can't speak for the trustees because we don't speak up at those. We immediately get interrupted. Bruce, my husband, prepared a statement. And I don't think he got three words in before he was interrupted. And this has happened to other people that have been real active. And it kind of, it just feels like there's such a division that you're not even gonna be heard. And what's the point? And I think that this needs to be addressed. This came out in the forms that were held before the merger with the KSV. This came out loud and clear on both sides that people are frustrated, they're unhappy with what's happened. And yet now that's being discounted. I truly believe, and I've talked to other people that voted against a merger both times, that if the people would have been listened to, merger would have happened. And I think that what we need to have happen is to have district representation. I think that districts really should be made across in the junction in the town, so that the line, the division is gone. So that people that are in the junction are now part of the town, even though they are now. And that people in the town might be part of the junction, but to make us a whole community. But we are not addressing the, I just want to use the word hatred, but I don't know if it is, but it's just awful. There is no love here anymore. And there's just a frustration. So Mary, Mary, Mary, Mary, Mary, Mary. Whoops, there's an echo again, echo again, echo again. And then on your side also. There's a couple of different trends that I'm trying to pick up, and I'm wondering if I'm missing something. So I just did want to say, you've talked about the civility of how these conversations take place and just how disheartening it is to stand up and try to have a conversation about it to step into criticism. And you've also talked about representation. And overall, I think what you're talking about is sort of whether this is a welcoming environment to step forward and continue to explore options together as a community. Is there something that I'm missing? Well, I think there's something that I didn't say that I'd like to add, which is I would like to have there be some kind of a focus on the whole idea of what doesn't mean to be involved in your community. The select board has put out several times an invitation to please get involved, please. And then when we do, you get into trouble for it. I think that what we need to do, and even with these forums, to say that you're gonna hear from the whole community in an hour or in an hour and a half, is kind of an insult. I mean, there's just no way. And I think that we need to start thinking outside of the box. I don't know how it can be done, but I believe that it can be done, where maybe we can start having some community dinners where we can have discussions on various issues. Maybe we should have things happen to try to do some community building. Being active and going, being involved in going to a select board meeting, to me is not really a great participation because what happens is you stand up, public to be heard, it's like talking to a wall because there's never any conversation around. It's just like, thank you, next. And so we never get a chance. So yeah. Right, it's not, public to be heard is not the most effective forum for an exchange, it's just sort of an information giving. But what you're talking about this new one, I don't think I'm catching this, which is how to increase options for community building and discussions. Forms are one thing, I know you can't hear from everyone, but hopefully it does provide a forum for at some kind of exchange. You're saying that's still not enough that in order to have real participation, there has to be more frequency, more forgiveness, more ability to give and take. Well, community building, whatever that's gonna be, because I don't dislike the people in the junction. And I hope that they don't really dislike us out here, but we've lost the community feeling. And I just think that's something that needs to be built up before we can even think about these other things. Thank you. Yeah, okay. Thank you, Mary. So, and what? We're gonna do a quick little credit, switch the sound so I can get on the mic. So I'm gonna put myself on mute, Aiden. Yes. What do you need? Let's just, let's just stick with what we have. Let's just go over and have it. It's imperfect, I know. Thanks for coming. It's all good, I appreciate it. So can I see a show of hands, both from folks who are online and folks who are in the room before I take out comments about who has things that they wanna say? First, I'm looking for folks who haven't, and I know there's one in the room. Whether you've spoken before or not, how many people still have comments that they wanted to share? There's two in the room here, three in the room. And how many am I? Two. Three. So here's what you might notice more from me, is that really I'm gonna be trying to, and this is so ironic coming after Mary's comment about interrupting. Okay, I'm gonna use that tool to try to figure out what is the hard of the matter that you wanna make sure that you have here, in parts that we can manage our time. We don't have to end rate at 1020, but also just to make sure that more voices get into the mix as possible. So, is it dusty? Am I remembering that great? Come on up and then we'll go online and toggle back and forth. Bye. So I'm gonna add Betsy Dunn. I'm a town outside the village member, and I'm gonna add to the communication piece in that one of the things I had talked to Andy about and I thought was gonna happen possibly was that instead of just relying on the public to be heard timeframe at the meeting, if there's supposed to be something that we're asking them to consider and get back to us, potentially have, as Evan has these meetings that he has with the public, I think there should be a regular ongoing thing where two of the people from the select board, because you can't have three for sure because then it's a meeting, but two people from the select board should have maybe every other week or at this time because of the crunch that we're in and getting to the question of separation the village is gonna be answering. Have these little meetings where people can get together either here or at a coffee shop or wherever, but so that people can say, these are things they think should be happening and it may be even outside of the whole realm of separation or merger, just things that they wanna see the town get engaged in that is not happening currently and have this sessions like that. I think that would be helpful for communication. Do you call them coffee chats? I do call them coffee chats. That's what you're thinking? Because I would just go to the one that- I've even tried to expand it to beer chats. So I'm not opposed to going to a place that has beverages of all kinds to show up in public because I understand not everybody's available at nine, 10 or noon. Right. So I think that's one piece and I think that where Matt was talking about the shared and making it equal. I understand that the village has issues with the taxes, but if we're gonna combine these things, then it should be 50, 50. 42 is like a crazy number. It is, I don't get it. And the town does not use the police force as often as does the village. That's just what the chief had said when we went to one of his coffee chats with the cop. And I just think it should be 50, 50 if it's a shared thing because who knows how many times they're gonna come into your town. And if we do separate and Colchester has got too many holes to help the village have alignment with them, with contact with them to do their services. Williston is a small police force. They can't do it. Sheriff's can't do it. And we're the most logical choice. You, instead of paying 100% and going out and having to do your own police force and have your own building, 50, 50 is I think an all together reasonable price. Not 42, 58. It's like that's crazy making. So what I'm gonna catch for that is how to allocate the cost of shared expenses. And then I have what makes sense. Is it 50, 50? Is it other percentage? What formula is fair? I think so for two separate entities, that's what it should be. And then when it comes to the services that Megan had spoken to, especially the childcare, I understand the angst around that. And I think we should be asking our bigger employees, employers to offer childcare on site because I think that's a huge piece and it's something that they could do for the town having childcare on site and or supportive for childcare. And because we all don't have kids and I pay my education taxes, I don't have kids in the school. When my kids were little, there were people who were older who didn't have kids and they were paying for it. That's absolutely fine. And the shared piece, possibly, I mean, when it comes to the pool and recreation, my granddaughter was with me and I took my daughter and her child to the pool. Well, they don't have a pool at our pool for the kids. So we went over to the town pool, the village pool. And it was $19, no, it was $19 for the three of us to use the pool for one day. They don't pay $19 to go on to Indian Brook each time they wanna go. That's a pass for the whole time. I mean, that's another little issue there. And representation, I think that we do need to have districts. I think we need, that was one of the things that we spoke to greatly way back in 2006 and then 2015, we said it again that we wanna have districts. And this is for the town. If they separate, I still wanna see districts. I wanna have us have it so that you know your representative is your representative going into the meetings and you can go over to their house. There's a community base for it. I think that's important. And having the information put out after the meetings that we have with our select board and has something come out in front porch forum and in another venue, whether it's Facebook from the select board, but this is what we discussed. This is what our answers were and this is what we're gonna do. So that people are clear what it is and they don't have to go to a four-hour meeting and or just go for a period of time to their little part that they are interested in. Okay, it is starting to build up in my head because there are things here. But, so some of these things are noted around just in terms of crossing access to different shared places depending on which entity you reside in. Noted here for sure. There's lots of different things about representation but I think what you're talking about right now is just the ease of communication staying up to date so that you don't have to sit through hours on a Saturday morning or whatever it is to stay in touch. And the childcare piece, I haven't added anything for that because it's just a little bit outside of... Sure. Yeah, but it's really noted. But I think it's important. Thank you. Okay, thank you. Comments online. Harlan. Harlan, have you spoken before? I think we're gonna... Of Deb, Harlan and Gabrielle. Thank you. I spoke at the very first form. I had made a comment then, but I have not spoken since. Deb, have you spoken before? No, I haven't, but I love listening to Harlan. I know. Well, let's do this. I'm gonna go Deb first and then Harlan. I appreciate that compliment. Yeah, all righty. Okay, Deb. So I'll go brief. And I agree with a lot of what has been said and I appreciate a lot of people stepping out and taking care of healthcare. So real quickly, I want the select board to be aware that 50% of their constituents want to know what it's gonna take for us to go for separation. The other 50% are going to be impacted by it. So I would ask them and encourage them to get with the timeline, work with the trustees and help us because it will benefit us all. And I would also like to advocate for clear, accurate and regular communication from the trustees and select board. Sorry, they all goes to both of ways. A comment about public safety and public health. For me, that's the foundation of freedom, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. So I want all of our leaders to take the approach that the best option for the greatest good is the first priority and economy of scale, second. So I can figure out how to touch it. So your comment about clear, accurate communication from both boards makes sense. That's in here. Well, you've just said public safety and services. Yeah. So yeah, any public safety or anything that has to do with public safety or public health? I think that that's the foundation of our freedom, liberty and pursuit of happiness. And that's what makes us fabulous. And so when it comes to those types of decisions, I want the priority to be, what is the best option for the greatest good? So obviously I wanna continue to support the police department. And I want the economy of scale because that makes sense. Right. So one of the things you're looking for are, I'm gonna put this under policing, but you're talking about services also in public health. Let me work with this for a minute before you add more on, just because it makes sense to grab it. I don't know if it's anywhere else yet, so I'm gonna put down in questions. My topic in one of those categories later. I think what you're saying is you're prioritizing clarity about public safety and public health. And clarity about decisions and changes that are being considered. Is that right? Yes. And the greatest good for the TOV and the whatever the TIVI, that irritates me, sorry. That's okay. And otherwise I wouldn't really want any changes in any of the finances or any of the ways that they're handled until after we have the separation vote. Yeah. So what you're looking for changes in the budget, you're just trying to minimize how much that changes until there's an interim over and over. Correct. Correct. One time I'll put status quo. Sorry about that. No, it's okay. Okay, so just a couple more comments. Yep. Let me move on. Move on, Debra. It's less that, I think what you're looking for is how are those costs going to change during this interim time? And you're really paying attention to it. You in particular want to keep status quo. And I also recognize through this interim phase it's an undefined amount of time. The status quo, that's a specific solution to something that you're watching, which is just... In my mind, that's two years because that's about all the patients I have left. Yeah. Yeah, I hear you. I don't know if my brain is just crying out because it doesn't. It's a little nervous. This is so complex and you're all looking at so many different things. It may be. I've been thinking about this for two decades or plus. So for me, this has been something that I've had plenty of time to chew on. Okay. Okay, I think you're paying attention to and wary of any big budget changes during this interim time. Yeah. Got it, okay. Okay, so just a couple of other comments from things that I've heard today that I really appreciate that first of all, it is not normal to pay two property taxes. And it's not normal to vote twice. And in the interim, and I don't like the us versus them. And I really would like in the interim if we could all find kindness. I'm a deal broke, I'm popular today. And then finally, transparency and bias awareness from all boards. I think that there are biases. I think it's obvious. If you watch the YouTube remakes of these shows, it's clear. I'm on the housing commission and I serve both the village and the town. And when I started, I told everybody that I'm in the tank for separation. Well, first I was from merger and I was willing to give up 12 years. But anyway, another story. So I just think that people should be aware of their bias and to pay attention to that and minimize the executive session so that we don't have to feel like we don't know what's going on. I do feel like I'm divorcing myself and the misinformation. I mean, there's like a Trump-like misinformation campaign that is underlying some of this that makes me concerned. And finally, the last thing I wanna say is that I just really wanna send out gratitude and love to the staff that are at the village and the town. You guys rock. I really want you to be held harmless to all of this. I want you to be treated with fairness and equity. And I think that one of the other things that makes us great, Megan Humphries, that the reason I came to Essex was for our outstanding school system. And I wanna thank everybody for everything they do. Thanks, Deb. That's a good shout-out for different contributions that make this place strong and vibrant. Even when it's so good. Thank you. Any other comments, Ken? Is that right? Thanks, Jen. Ken Cignalo, how are you? You keep on asking what I've been paying attention to. I've been paying attention to the trustees, the select board, and the staff. What I'm seeing is that they're blowing it. I support the concept of separating and sharing. I've suggested it two years ago. And what I'm seeing is ignoring the voters. 80% of village voters said, prepare a separation plan and share one thing. One thing only. Police. And yet what do we see? The trustees make requests to share lots of other things. They do pay attention to one thing, however, when they were asked to do it in November, they're doing it in November. Tell her how I water. The select board. Very slow to respond. They're not helping the village figuring out what is it gonna be like separated in a timely fashion to make that November date. Conflict there, obviously. These forums are a good example of where the select board has failed. Always in the village. There are people outside the village that don't have great internet access that are not going to be participating. We don't really know what the position of the select board is on the separation. They've never really said, do we support it or don't we? Okay. So one of the things you're looking for is good information about as the select board takes in information and conditions are always changing, you're looking to track what is the particular position at any given time. No, I'm looking for the select board and the trustees and the staff to do what the voters ask. Again, I'm laughing because I don't know how to put this down here in a way that people will be able to... I'll say it again. I'll catch it. These and the select board and the staff should be doing what the voters ask. Okay. They asked for a separation plan. So I'm going to ask a different kind of question. So when you're looking to see if voters is a huge group. No, there's village voters voted. 80% said separate. Share one thing. So what would tell you that response that these, that elected officials and staff... Are not doing that? No, what would tell you that they are? Just meeting to figure out how to separate, how to share one thing, police. Okay. So specific plans on how separation is going to move forward would give you an indication that they'd heard voters in the responding to it. And specifically, you're looking at policing. You're not so interested that all the other pieces. That's what the voters asked for. Okay. It was a referendum. I'm going to try to stay with you. And finally, the staff. And how are they ignoring the voters on this separation question to share only one thing? They throw out other trial balloons to share other things. You've heard about it today. How to share fire, for example. And it's really interesting to see that the staff is suggesting a budget sharing only component when they've been doing that for public works for six or seven years now with the idea that we should have a full merger, but no, we only really have a budget merger. We haven't had that completed. So when staff completes the merger of the public works, then maybe we can talk about merging some other departments, but we should get that done first. I haven't gotten it done in seven years. I think that needs to be done. Okay. So here's why I'm pausing again, because I feel completely ineffective trying to figure out how to get some of these comments in a way that they're represented here. You can watch it later on YouTube. So this is a series of statements that I think you're wanting the select board to hear. I actually am really trying to figure out, you know, how this is different. I know. Yeah, it is a little different. I tried to make it different. So I value it. I just don't know how to use it here. So I'm going to do the best I can. I'm going to hang with you. I think the idea is simple. The voters asked for a specific thing and the select board and the trustees and the staff need to honor that. What else do you have that you wanted to be able to say? And then I'm going to see if I can final things. Yeah. They need to get out of the way. They're blowing it. They need to get somebody to do these negotiations. Citizens who can actually come up with solutions. I met with a villager just the other day. And we together, we were talking and discussing the whole separation thing and we came up with ways to solve a number of the problem. The citizens, I think can really do it. Three or so from village, town outside of the village, I think could come up with a good negotiating plan. Let the select board and the trustees pay attention to their day to day business. And then that group would present a plan which guess what might actually be received positively because it came from the people who are going to live with it. The gist of it. So I think, you know, if there was one thing I was going to pull out of that can that I think, I don't know if it's on here yet or not. It's about, but it might be in representation how elected officials right now are getting input from the community around different options. They got it. And that's the last March with the 80% vote. But you're talking about vote. You just moved on to not just talk about both solutions as people come up with different pathways and solutions, how that input, you know, what are the forums to get that input under these are very imperfect. They're not random samples. They're not the population. They're just people who want to speak. The vote is what counts. Okay. I hear you saying forums by themselves, you're right. It is selective. And a vote is a measure of the widest kind of opinion that you can get or the, yes. It's authoritative. It's what has to happen, right? So is there something that anything else you haven't said yet, Ken, that you haven't completed? Okay. Okay. I want to keep it brief. I can. So I'm going to assume that a lot of what you said about the input representation, trying to get sort of the discourse to be. I think that the trust using the select board and the staff are. We're not going to get a good separation plan. It's going to be muddy with all kinds of things included that weren't asked for. Okay. And folks are going to say, this is not what we asked for. And it's going to create problems for the village voters. Well, the town voters don't get a choice. But. This is going to be a problem. It's not what was asked for. It was very clear. You should read. You haven't read the question. You should read it. So I'm going to tie me out there. Okay. So I'm going to go back to the other comments and it's not so important that I get it as much as it is that. Your community understands it. Part of what you're saying is it's so tricky to manage expectations in this particular. Issue. And on the scale, like expectations about what a vote means or what should, or shouldn't be done or what shared means. And that all of those conversations are pretty complicated to have on the public scene. That's the problem. And the voters didn't ask for that. How it falls out. Great. You learn something. What I asked for wasn't such a good idea. We vote. No, we try something else. Okay. Have I honored what you came here to say? I don't know. I have to read it. It's a very challenging thing you have to do. Okay. I tried to keep it simple, but stay focused on that one concept. Voters ask for something. Why is it that the trustees come forward with a 12 priority list of other things? Why is it that staff suggests, hey, let's try something else. I'm going to ask you for a question. I'm going to write your question down here, rather than trying to understand it in the categories. If you had one question, Ken, that you're asking, I think it's around. Why is a separation issue that seems so simple getting so complicated? It shouldn't. Is that your question? It's sort of. And the answer is it shouldn't. Because the question wasn't that complicated. It was really quite simple. Prepare a separation plan. Share one thing, please. Okay. 80% 80% of the village voters voted for that. How are those folks going to feel when they find out that. Not just that we want to do this, this, this and that. Okay. It basically creates fog and smoke. And you've heard all the complaints you've heard are related to that in a way. People saying the communication, right? You're hearing that. That's what's coming out. Okay. And the slipboard needs to help. And it's, you know, they're asking to share one thing. They should focus on that one thing. This is what we propose for police. Okay. That's it. I'm going to say, please help simplify. Period. Why is a separation issue which seems so simple. One shared service police getting so complicated. Please help simplify. I think, and I have to leave it there. Thank you so much. I don't have to go after all it turns up. Oh boy, there you go. All right. So online. So, Harlan, I believe you're up. Thank you. I'm going to try to keep the door to develop the game plan. So a lot of the problems that I'm hearing is a transparency and trust. And, and one of the things that I'm kind of keeping an eye on, we've got a joint meeting coming up Monday. And there's a couple of asterisks in there where those are going to move into executive session or it looks like they're going to move into executive session. And I, it's a little hard to be transparent and trust our select board members and our trustee members if they are. And I get the fact that they can go in there because technically they're contract negotiations. But I feel like somebody should be able to direct where we could have that conversation open in the public eye until maybe it gets to a point where there is some legal advice that would be needed and it moves in. So my concern is the transparency and the trust in the only way that we're going to gain that. And I'll try to give a quick example. If they were talking about something that I disagreed with and then it went into executive session afterwards, I would have the opportunity to send an email to either that select board or that trustee and say I need you to explain this to me because this is my thought process on what you were talking about in that particular area. So I'm a little, I'm a little concerned with the amount of executive sessions. And if Greg would love to correct me, I would, I would appreciate that. The asterisk is there to say that this could go into an executive session, but does not mean that it needs to go into an executive session. And then which is going to make it just a little bit longer, a quick note. None of this is simple. And I'm not looking to get into an argument with Ken, but just to show you how complicated this is, he believes the vote was very simple. The fact that it was a non-binding resolution complicate it. And there's only so many things that you can put on a vote. And the priority, we have two fire departments. We have two recreation departments. We have two libraries. We don't have two police stations. So on that nine non-binding resolution, they put the police department as the top priority because we do not have two police departments. So again, transparency and the only way we're going to trust you if there's more transparency. So the least amount of executive sessions, and if the conversation goes sideways, then let's jump into executive session at that point. Thanks. Did you have a clarification, Greg? Yeah, those asterisks, I mean, it means that there is an option to go into executive session. There's some public information in the packet as the select board responds to the trustee's proposal. So I imagine that the two boards will discuss that. The public, whether or not they go into executive session afterwards, whether it's either board or both boards or the board separately, I did not know how that plays out on Monday night. But I do expect some of the discussion to take place in an open session. Again, it is very hard for two bodies who want the best for their citizens who hear something in a meeting to then discuss what they may want to do or how to counter in the meeting when they need to talk to each other as to what as a group they want. And that's what executive session would allow them to do so that the other side, if you want to call it the other side, doesn't hear all your thoughts and what you might want to counter with and why. And so it's just very hard to do this completely in a public open forum because it just, it just is. But I've heard all the comments. It's just very hard if you were doing contract negotiations with let's say the police and I wasn't allowed to go talk to my lawyer about let's say, Hey, if we do this and do that. And then they hear everything that I'm saying as to what's a possibility. Why would they bargain with me if they already know what I might do or not do. That's just very difficult. Yeah. Negotiate without the ability to caucus is nearly impossible and it's duly noted and it's pumped through a couple of terms too about how to the extent that anything can be shared and transparent about even what the topic is. And that's helpful. I'm only going to take comments right now from folks who haven't spoken mostly because I know there's still a couple of people waiting and we're already over time. Is there anybody still thank you, Harlan. Is there anybody still in the in here who has something to say on site. It's okay. You can speak today. No, I'm going to go and then I'm going to go to Gabrielle come on up a few. Thank you Irene runner. Couple of things I'd like to reinforce what everyone has said about clear and transparent communication. And I would add it's really important to have clear and transparent policies. That is if people want to share more equally the taxation than I would suggest that the select board use its powers to tax outside the village residents for it's the outside village library and fire department and those things that are thought to serve the town outside the village more. Of course they serve everyone in the town. But again if we're looking to equalize taxation let's be clear and transparent about it. Let's not merge budgets as we did for public works in good faith and yet here we are seven eight years later and the town still does not control public works as those of us who are on the select board at the time were promised it would let us learn from those past mistakes not to backdoor merge anything without seeing it through when public works is done. And we can talk about perhaps combining other things like fire capital and staff that may or may not be one department ever as it was said before let's not merge before we separate. Let's wait until the November vote passes or fails because we don't even know if separation is going to pass when it's a binding vote. When I hear staff say everyone is paying that is of course a misnomer because 58% of any town tax revenue comes from the outside the village folks so it's not equitable just because everyone is being charged for it. Please don't rush things. I like Ken suggestion for having a group of citizens come up with their own separation plan and having the boards about it because there's not a lot of creativity here and we need to have some creative solutions in this town. And because of the time before it's on this list representation and great. Last fall the village sent an incomplete merger plan to its voters and it passed even if the town's merger plan had passed in March the house government operations committee would have been in a bind because statute says the same merger plan has to come from both municipalities. So let's not please skirt over details and let's make sure instead of rushing to a vote this November on whatever it is that gets thrown together in the next few weeks that we actually have more citizen involvement and we put off the vote until March when everyone inside the village and outside the village can vote on a separation plan that everyone has taken time to understand. I heard someone reference how important it was that the two rec departments are working together. They came to the select board several years ago and begged to co-locate. They told us it was for the benefit of the customers because one stop shopping would be the cats meow and indeed it's been wonderful to have one brochure and one place for people to go and yet Bradluck threatened that a recent trustee meeting that they would perhaps be splitting up that perhaps the Essex rec program would have to find a new home and that's really unfortunate because that tells me that those of us who had misgivings all along and thought it was just another back to our merger may have been right. Please oh please think about the customers first. I am going to pause you there for a minute although maybe that message isn't actually for me. I when you think about retaining child care and what you're paying attention to in this interim is noticing that signals. I'm seeing failed threats and I don't like that as as someone who was put on the spot and told really no this isn't a back door merger we're just co-locating and it's really for the benefit of the citizens. I want the current select board to understand there's a lot of mixed messages that get sent and they need to trust their guts. Because time always tells what the truth is and who's really working for the customer and who's just really working for themselves so please select board trust your gut. Okay so that and that also loops back to how decisions are made and how they're made of transparency. Absolutely and common sense is often missing here too and I think that's what the beauty of having a citizen committee form over the fall and winter. Citizens don't have to worry about re-election they don't have to worry about keeping up appearances. They can sit in a room and they can hammer out a separation plan that's purely based on common sense and and I think it will. Yep and it's mostly based on the time because now we're more than 20 minutes over. I remember talking, hearing you before and putting into these notes just that idea about where does that advisory information come from? Where are the opportunities for people to discuss and then share those plans or proposals. Right. It's here. Okay but I think what Ken was proposing was a separate group working on a separation plan and that has not been brought up at all in any form or any meaning. See how it's framed here. Okay thanks. It needs to be adjusted. I think it was under representation and it's here. What options could be set up for the interim phase to increase representation to inform planning? There's an advisory committee idea that was noted and that's not what you're suggesting. Right. I will know to hear. I think the hard thing is that I didn't really set this up to take the brainstorm a lot of different specific approaches. I'll note it but also recognizing it's so imperfect because there might be 20 people who have different approaches that they want to suggest and I didn't set up this process to gather those. So the idea would be to put off the November vote until we have a better process that's just more thoughtful. This feels very rushed to me to try to do this in the summer. It seems appropriate in a slightly different way. But I think it's important to have a reasonable time frame. It's a reasonable time space which is down at the bottom. Is this time frame? Where are the adjustments? That would be great. Is it a reasonable time frame? The interest there is more education or input. Education, interaction, exchange, input. Okay. Thanks so much. That's it. Appreciate your time. Gabrielle, you're up. Thanks, Shin. One more brief piece of discussion. I think I understand now. How the public works budget. And funding works. And the idea of. Duplicating that with the fire department. And I have real concerns about that model. As a town voter. I'm really concerned that. The village board, if I understand this correctly, creates the public works budget for the village. And then that is delivered to the select board. And of course, as a town voter, I get to vote on that. As part of my overall budget. But I. I don't know. It just doesn't sit right with me. And I don't think that's a good model to replicate for the fire department. So I just don't like that whole. I appreciate the. Intention behind. The public works. Budget arrangement that we have now in the. And the proposal for us to consider from the fire department. I. I've thought I've been thinking about this. In the, in the weeks since we had the public forums. And it just, it just doesn't sit right. I think that one municipality makes the budget and then. Just kind of that gets put into another municipality's budget. I just, it just doesn't sit well. You know, you know, there's a place to capture that in these notes where it lives. Well, I'm not the first person to bring this up. So is there somewhere else where someone has given input about, about the fire department and public works? I don't know. I could such a big blind spot for me. I'm not even sure why I don't have it here. I'm just going to start another category at the bottom and then I'll try to put it in. Yeah. I think you'll find the affinity later on when we look at it. Yeah. And then I'm more. I think one that's more dear to my heart is coming back to communication and. Information facts knowledge about. The way that our services work and the way that they're funded and it's, it's a lot for us as citizens to get our heads around. There's some of us who come and speak to you to have more knowledge than others. And even then we're, we're sometimes prone to having a misunderstanding of information and facts. The sidewalks have really stuck out to me as one of those. I think that most of us as residents, no matter where we live in the town, don't seem to have a really solid understanding of why it is that the town sidewalks are not being plowed and maintained in the same way that the village sidewalks are. I think I understand it and I think that I hear a ton of people who I wonder don't understand it. My understanding of why town sidewalks are not being plowed with the same efficacy as village sidewalks are is because of the cost. I could be wrong. I don't know if Evan or Greg have any information about that. And it doesn't need to come out now, but I would suggest perhaps the select board and staff think about an item on the agenda at the select board meetings during the interim period where common topics of conversation that they're hearing or feedback that they're getting from residents, where there seems to be a lack of clear understanding across the board about something that they have clear understanding about could be provided to us. Don't be afraid to repeat things. Trust me, it takes us all, I'm speaking for myself for sure, two, three, four times to really go, oh wait, I think I get it now. So be patient with us. Give us the information a few different times. And I think having a standing item on the select board agenda about the provision of services and the way that we're taxed in the town and how that relates to the way that the village taxes impact the town budget and don't. I think in the case of the sidewalks, the fact that the village does pay to plow our own sidewalks has nothing to do with the fact that the town does or does not. I've never been asked to vote on a big plan to plow the town sidewalks. So I think I've heard it would cost a quite a large amount of money, but I don't know. If you're hearing from residents they want their sidewalks plowed then make it clear to us what it would cost for that to happen and put it to a vote or whatever the select board chooses and that's just one example. So I think there are understandably a lot of mixed beliefs, perceptions, understandings, versions about things that are simply based in there are facts that could be made more clear to us as residents. And then we form our own opinions about that. You're going to have diversity of opinions, but we shouldn't have diversity of facts. I think there's some things out there that all of us could use some clarity on and maybe a consistent method or opportunity for the select board and staff to address those for us. The more pressing ones would be helpful for us, especially in the interim period. It's always funny. When you're sitting in between conflicting parties as a mediator you assume that everyone will have facts, but they're all using them in a different way. And that's it's a really complex thing. Gabrielle, here's what I've put this in at least one place. Are there ways to build in predictable iterative opportunities that could be at an SB meeting, but it leaves the option that there could be other options to the correct information and give information or provide a Q&A. And I think in particular you're talking about describing the rationale behind discrepancies that people might notice and wonder about. Yeah, I think that would be really helpful for all of us. And I think what also perhaps address some of the frustrations that people are experiencing with the select board meetings where I often feel like people, I hear people repeatedly bringing forward information and it doesn't feel like they're really being heard. I imagine they are, but it's not, there's no visible way to know that they're really listening to people who are showing up time and again asking for information or asking for a service or offering to help in some way and there doesn't seem to be a, the loop doesn't get closed. So I like the idea of it being iterative and, and providing some accountability back to the community and response back to people. Sometimes the answer can be no, that's fine. We don't always all get what we ask for. But to, to bring some closure to topics and issues that people have been bringing to the select board, I'm not one of those people, but I've, I've heard people coming forward and asking for things. And I feel like it's just unresolved and not answered. So I think that iterative opportunity to address common topics that are being talked about in the community, to make sure that all of us are working from as best we can the same pieces of information, formal and opinions as we will, but the same pieces of information. Yep. Okay. Did you have other thoughts? No, no, no, thanks, Jen. Okay. Okay. In my mind, I'm starting preparing to start closed down, closed down. I don't know if there's other folks online who have not spoken yet who wished to. If so, would you raise your hand and just give me a sense of the volume? Okay. And each person in this room has had an opportunity to speak. I just thought. Oh, what? When I was growing up in New Jersey. Every person. Every household. Yeah. A little, a little clip about each person doing their own sidewalk in front of their house. And yeah. And that's how it used to work. I'll stop sharing here for a moment then. And my neighbors, because that's what my dad told me to do. So let's do this. I, here's the next step from what I'm concerned with anyway. Later on this afternoon, I'll take the notes that you've seen them being developed, but it is a little bit of shorthand and a little bit messy. They're not going to change that much. You'll still see yourself reflected there. Hopefully if I've done my job well. And then that memo will go to the blackboard and the trustees to use for their next joint meeting. It doesn't give them a lot of time to think about it, but at least it's available. Monday, Monday night, 23rd, 630. Here in this room. Because this is the. As Aidan will fix the stuff. This is the best room that we have for virtual. Any closing comments, Evan, Greg. Just a quick thank you to all the citizens over the three forums. Thank you. We have come in person, did it virtual, sent us emails. We do the best we can. We take a lot of this information and. With 21,000 ish people. Coming from different places in their lives and that are in their situations. Um, it's just a quick thank you to all the citizens over the three forums. And also, in the different situations. Um, it's a very interesting process. Thanks, Jen. For all of our patients and her quick on the fly. Taking people's thoughts to town TV. I know we had some technical difficulties today. But in general, we're trying. And we're going to put it. required to leave immediately but you are going to need to leave at some point and I'm going to stay here for a few minutes. I kind of saw that some people might have had one more comment but we'll take it offline. I do want to say thank you to everyone online and in the room but also folks who are going to be watching or paying attention to these notes going forward for your civility and your participation and your ability to hang into the conversation because it's not a conversation that happens once. It is definitely iterative but it's also an engagement that you get to learn and keep expanding and involving ideas so not a static process by any means. Thank you so much for being part of it. Good to go. Yeah just I'll echo the thank yous for everybody participated and showed up and thank you again and enjoy your weekends. One more last thing. There are people from our staff that are not in this room that helped put these on. Thank you to several staff members for giving of your time. Much appreciated. I will get back to you later. Take care everyone.