 And we should be live I'm waiting for that update. All right. Great. Looks like we are alive. So hello and welcome everyone thanks for coming to this edition of the Community of Resilience and Sustainability Conversation Hour and thanks for being patient with rescheduling. We had some scheduling issues So so glad that so many more of you could make it to this time. So I think serendipity was on our side So I'll go ahead and hand it over to Maggie to introduce herself and then I'll go over some logistics. So thanks everyone Maggie over to you Hello everybody. I am Maggie Dennis the vice president of Community Resilience and Sustainability. I Want to welcome you all and say that we're looking forward to talking. We have some pre-submitted questions that we will go through Happy to talk about Any topic within my realm of responsibility? I do have some parameters I can't talk about specific cases And if there's something that I can't answer we're happy to see what we can do to find out Also, there's someone in the room with a Santa hat on so I am very much enjoying that Back to you Jackie All right, great. Thanks Maggie All right, everyone. So hi again. I am Jackie Kerner. I am the community the communication specialist for Community Resilience and Sustainability and thank you for everyone who's joining us live and Hey there to everyone who's joining after the fact With me in the room. We have several staff members who are available to ask questions So we might pass back and forth to see Some different perspectives and insights. We're going to take questions from YouTube and in the zoom room So if you didn't pre-submit your question, please do not worry You can go ahead and submit that if you are in the zoom room, you're welcome to Ask your question live. I'll go ahead and you can do one of these in the chat And I will get you in the queue or you can use the raise hand feature whichever is most comfortable And on YouTube, I will be sharing links from the zoom room on to YouTube So there might be a little bit of a delay, but I'll get those links over to you soon And if you are asking a question, please keep your question clear and concise because we have usually a very full hour And we do have a quite a few questions And if there are any questions, we don't get to we'll follow up in writing afterwards in the notes And a reminder to myself and anyone who has a great comfort level with English Please slow down when you're speaking because we have a very Very comfort level of English So speaking slowly and please if we do speak quickly it's Maggie and I are native English speakers Just raise your hand and ask us to speak more slowly We will not be offended and we'll actually appreciate that flagging and I do want to remind everyone that this space is covered by the universal code of conduct and encourage everyone to have good discussions and Keep it in the mood of the discussion And please ask those questions and let's go ahead and get started. Are you ready Maggie? All right, let's do it. Let me grab the document that I've taken the pre-submitted questions. I'll start with one of those All right, so our first question What does trust and safety do? When the universal code of conduct violations are reported as happening between chapter members Sorry, I have a cat joining here. Apologies Or between employees of chapters and the chapter leaders Do you have any advice for chapter employees who feel they've been mistreated by their managers? Especially if they have reason to fear retaliation. That's a long one. So I'll post that in the chat and I will post the question on YouTube for anyone who would like to read that because I'd be more comfortable All right Maggie, please go ahead Thank you, that's a complicated question. So I will try to do my best with it UCOC violations That occur on our sites may be looked at by trust and safety no matter who's involved in them They do typically tend to rely on local Admins local arbitration committees to handle conflicts within their own realm But if it happens on our sites and it is Particularly if it's egregious enough to violate the terms of use then trust and safety make it involved What happens is when a report is turned into trust and safety the trust and safety team evaluates it to see if it falls within their mandate and then Proposes to the foundation's attorneys whether we should or should not take the case if the foundation's attorneys agree that it's within the Mandate then it doesn't matter Who is involved? It will proceed now it's different when violations happen offline or In spaces that are outside of our direct ability to observe her control and what happens between chapter members is probably best handled between Within the chapter's own conflict resolution processes if it's not especially on our our wikis between employees of chapters and the chapter leaders is obviously Harder because if the person who is supposed to be adjudicating issues is involved We don't have many processes at this stage to deal with that kind of problem it's something that you may be able to take up with the affiliations committee or trust and safety might be able to help it depends on the nature of the conflict and It may also be something that has to be handled with in local Employer employee dispute resolution Processes, you know, like there may be laws in the country that you're talking about there may be processes within the country that can help so There's there's complications Internationally when it comes to chapters and their employees Chapters are independent entities. The foundation does grant them access to Trademarks, you know, and they do have the ability to seek grants But in terms of internal employee matters, they have very little real influence In terms of advice for chapter employees who feel they've been mistreated by their managers, especially if they have reason to fear retaliation Well, I wish I had a magic wand but Without knowing again what local laws what local options there are for people who have general employment disputes in a region I think that AFCOM is probably not a bad place to start I will say that AFCOM is not particularly set up to handle these kind of conflicts but nobody else is either and They may be able to help or they may be able to recommend another help option If not, you can always write to trustinsafety at ca at wickamedia.org As mentioned, there are limits on what they can do, but in the absence of a clear pathway Sometimes we just have to try and do our best I think I'm I think I'm done All right. Well, thank you Maggie for that Thanks, Nesma. Nesma shared the email address for any sort of reports in the chat in zooms I will paste that over into YouTube In just a moment. I'll get it started on our next question So Maggie, our next question is To whom should a person speak to report mismanagement of funds or other malfeasance within a chapter? Once again, AFCOM is is a good place to start although if the funds come from a grants distribution from the foundation the foundation's grants team is a good Good contact point if there's other forms of malfeasance that might cause problems with the trademark agreement Contacting the legal department. Not sure if there's a better address, but they can be reached at legal at wickamedia.org It's it's always a good place to start. All right, great. Thank you so much Maggie All right now this next question It relates to the access to non-public data personal data policy in 2021 the legal team suspended NDA recognition to applicants who live in Jurisdictions that have blocked access to wickamedia projects The legal team noted that this is an immediate solution and there will be long-term solutions After two years, could you share any updates with us? That announcement was September of 2021. So that's where the two-year reference has been. I'll paste this question into the chat Okay I Can't at this moment because the lawyers would be the ones I'd have to ask but I can ask the lawyers The one who I can usually type to when I'm in a meeting who can answer me immediately is off on paternity leave but we can definitely do follow-up after the call and get back On meta with the answer to this question as soon as possible Very great. I will note that for follow-up afterwards. So we don't forget that Um, let's see and the next question we have Some wiki sysops and also non sysop users may access users ip information or other Personally identifiable information Uh, when processing requests for unblocking account creation, etc Is nda required for these users or do they also need to meet other requirements? So I will post that in the chat So to the best of my knowledge, um Like the non sysop users like like account creators wiki sysops who have access to this information all must sign ndas This is again This is more of something that legal manages although the trust and safety team operates it in some cases trust and safety are like The hands to the legal body I'm not aware if there are other requirements, but I do I do know that nda is required for For people who have access to that information And I'm sorry if I didn't if I didn't answer specifically what's wanted. I'm happy to take a follow-up All right, let me grab the next question These are all very Very good questions if we need to follow-ups. So thanks everyone for sending such thoughtful questions When the foundation reviews a potential advocacy issue in support of wikimediants persecuted by government authorities and finds there are safety issues preventing public advocacy And there is a grassroots desire among the community to go forward with such advocacy With or without the foundation support by those who still want to do And be sensitive to safety issues Is it appropriate to make an exception to the policy of discussing individual cases? So the community can become more cognizant of the safety issues involved So i'll break this into two parts because there's an if not but let's start with part one Okay I just paste it in the chat Thank you All right scanning over it to make sure that I've understood it all So there are certainly occasions where the foundation is not in position to take public statements I think that most of you are aware that there have been cases where users have been imprisoned in some jurisdictions Where there has been a hope that the foundation would Agitate for action to be taken and we our human rights team, which is small but very experienced I'm really proud of them Has relationships with some pretty prominent advocacy organizations around the world who help guide us in what we do The foundation's mandate is pretty clear in terms of as a nonprofit how we use our funds and how we conduct our activities So there are some limitations to what we are supposed to do outside of advocating for and producing free knowledge sources there are also Factors that the foundation thinks about like If a person is in danger in a jurisdiction And the foundation becomes a powerful agitator for that person what happens to other people in that jurisdiction What happens to other admins on the wiki where an individual has been targeted by a government or or such So our hands are tied in some cases. This does not mean that the communities hands are tied So in terms of what we would discuss It would not I cannot think of too many occasions where it would make sense for us to to publicly broadcast Why or what's going on in a way that might actually cause the danger that we're trying to avoid But there are certainly some circumstances where we may be able to talk to trusted users stewards arbitrators user groups to work with them to understand the circumstances better And to perhaps support them in ways to take action It has to be done with a great deal of delicacy because the safety of our community is my top priority And that includes those who are immediately directly impacted and those who may be And i'm complete with the first half Okay, I think you've made a great segue into the second part. I'll go ahead and post it If not in what other ways can the foundation help community members Convince the public advocacy such as letter writing campaign is a necessary part of securing An early release of the victims to understand the safety issues more fully. Let me rephrase that so it's a little gentler so if not The open advocacy in what ways can the foundation help community members to understand the safety issues more fully Well, I mean in helping people understand the issues more fully the best the best approach that I've really come up with And it may not be the best and i'm always open to hear more ideas Is is just talking kind of broadly about some of the concerns that we try to juggle About some of the reasons why we may not be as public with our advocacy as people would like us to be I wish we lived in a world where sharing knowledge was not radical and where it didn't get people in in such severe danger But in nearly 12 years at the foundation. I have seen that it is truly problematic at times and in fact In many ways, I would say it has grown worse in the last few years I I've told people that the foundation used to struggle to be taken seriously because wikipedia was Not accepted as a as a resource now it is and one of the side effects of being taken seriously Is that we and our users are seen as a serious threat? um In terms of of what else we can do to help There's there's a page on meta. I'm sorry that I do not know the the link offhand But we can get it for when we post the the notes There's a page on meta that talks about use of resources for advocacy and how that is done So, you know, like like banners or other use of movement spaces There may be situations where the community chooses to do something that the foundation is not involved in But it it might still be appropriate to use movement resources I'm also Frequently happy And I know my team is as well to talk to people who who want to pursue these goals Um, I know that there is a great deal of room for disagreement on how how these things are best done I know that uh, some people will simply disagree with the directions we're choosing and I respect that um, I will say that One of the things that we have seen in the last five years In the movement that I did not really know to be an issue before is infiltration So we we are aware for example that some of our communities have had infiltration from people who are Interested in defending their truth at all costs And uh, I can't always know if these are the ones who want to talk to me. So um, I have to be careful And that means that there may be some things I simply can't say Sorry, sorry again. I I don't have a magic solution No, thank you Maggie and jack posted the link. I believe to the global global advocacy resources I think human rights has some similar tips On their page as well. So I'll work to find that or jack seems to always find things faster. So maybe jack We'll find that faster Um, so here's the next question What would you say to those who find the authoritative research literature strongly in support of public advocacy? As the most effective and indeed necessary means of supporting such victims So I'll share that in the chat Thank you because I have to admit I got distracted looking for the link. I was talking about And and I found it. So if somebody could post that on youtube, I'd appreciate it Um Thor it's strongly in support. Okay. Uh, yes, as I said, there are differences of opinion and we have as I mentioned We have partners in this field who also disagree on occasion So, um I would say I respect you I'm sure that the the people that you're citing the researchers. There are many who agree with you Some of them may not be taking into account Our own context, you know, what we are here to do how we are here to do it the fact that like Um amnesty international for instance Everyone who joins the amnesty international sort of knows what they're doing Some people come to wikipedia because they want to create articles about pokemon and uh, they didn't necessarily join an organization that was suddenly going to Make their own country angry with them So we have to think about informed consent of our volunteers and whether or not our activities are going to put people in danger Who didn't come here expecting to be in danger that ranges from children, you know Not that we officially know we have children on our sites, but we all know we have children on our sites um to I mean, we've seen family members of of users threatened. So the risks are real So that's I guess what I would say is I respect that I understand that and I do understand the wisdom of the approach I don't believe that the foundation is always the best organization to do it And one of the things that we do is partner with organizations who are who can carry batons Where they need to be carried. Um, I'm going to ask our Lead for human rights if he wants to add anything, but he doesn't have to he just got back from vacation y'all No, thanks. Maggie and uh, thanks for the thoughtful question Now um I am also a university professor of teaching human rights And while there is a strong body of scholarship out there, which does indeed say that naming and shaming Which is what the question is talking about is effective. There is also it's contentious. How effective it is anymore was Very effective in the past whether it's going to be effective going forward It's certainly up for at least scholarly debate and I would just echo what Maggie says Um, you know, there are advocacy organizations like amnesty international for example many regional human rights advocacy organizations Which are better placed in terms of their networks. They're reached their name recognition as human rights advocates To actually be able to do the public advocacy Um, which is being which the question is focused on it would I'm not sure how effective the wikimedia foundation is as a human rights name In terms of actually successful advocacy and I think that's something to keep in mind if we're talking about helping people We want to be sure to make the strongest impact and that impact is going to come from the organizations again like amnesty and other You know international human rights watch and regional organizations access now and so on that have the already have the name recognition in the field already have A broad network of peers and media contacts in human rights and back room at you know advocacy with governments present So with regards to this question, I think it's really important That you know We do have partnerships in relationship with these organizations and that going the route of the where the you know expert advocates Are for human rights is probably most effective to protect our community Hopefully that answered your question and it's a very interesting scholarly debate If you are curious to deep dive into the literature It's very interesting to see how that's going with the winds are shifting a bit on with their name and shame Is the way to go forward Thank you Cameron And thank you all for participating in these very heavy intense questions We're going to shift a little bit here Maggie to trust and safety So trust and safety now has a case review committee who can review many of their cases What can be done when a movement organization like an arbitration committee Or an affiliate investigates an issue Oh, sorry, I skipped the line there. Let me go over to this one where bigger text is is helpful Getting to that age y'all where I think I might need some readers All right friends. Let's start again So trust and safety now has a case review committee who can review many of their cases What can be done when a movement organization like an arbitration committee or an affiliate Investigates an issue in their community and a person isn't satisfied That the outcome was fair For an example, if there is a concern about the validity of the evidence submitted Or to whom a person can Can turn to for review I'll share that in the chat Okay well Some arbitration committees, I believe have their own policies for internal review. I don't know if they all do I do not know how many affiliates have review options, but I do believe that there is Something going on in the universal code of contact land. I'm not as familiar with it though as my team So I'm going to ask I'm going to ask for For You're on camera. Can I call on you? Yes. Okay. I'm going to ask nezma who is our lead manager trust and safety to speak to this Yeah, so first of all, thank you so much for the question. My name is nezma. I support the trust and safety team um at the moment we are moving closer and closer to having the final draft of the eu4c charter And that will be building up the foundation for the universal code of conduct coordinating committee So the eu4c part of their responsibility is to handle complaints and appeals When communities are for example Not maintaining the universal code of conduct if the local self-governance has Not been able to support the universal code of conduct or deal with the universal code of conduct issues So that is going to be a place where a level of checks and balances will be able to be set up But this is obviously hyper focused on the universal code of conduct and the enforcement of the universal code of conduct Obviously arbitration committees, for example Do not only look at the universal code of conduct as the baseline, right? There are other challenges that do come up in arbitration committees So I do I do think that the eu4c will create that opportunity of creating another level of appeals when local self-governance has not Been you know has not been working for example And you know providing another appeal option. It's important to I'm going to say this again that it's hyper focused on the universal code of conduct And there are pretty clear rules about when the eu4c will get engaged in appealing for or supporting appeals or reviewing appeals So that will be up to the eu4c when the election Happens in the new year Which is like the aim for the spring of the new year Right now the focus is the universal the eu4c building committee has built up the charter Which was in community conversation over the summer and will be up for vote in the new year And so I think that is going to be definitely a place another space essentially to be able to get another opinion From the you know from community members, right because it will be an elected body Focused on that focused on appeals on investigations, etc So I think that is definitely going to be a space That will create a level of the case review committee, right? Because the case review committee just in case people are not aware Looks at appealable cases that the trust and safety team works on So that will be my answer Well, thank you, Nesma All right friends. I want to take this moment to remind you all That you can ask questions in the room So I really encourage you to do that Because you're all are here. So let's have your questions. And if you're in the youtube Watching the stream, I'm watching the chat. So feel free to ask your questions there as well So if you're in the zoom room, feel free to raise your hand or you can send the message to me And I'll voice your question. No problem And feel free folks on youtube to Ask those questions as well All right, let's go ahead and go on to the next pre-submitted question And thanks friends for submitting so many pre good pre-submitted questions this month. This is this has been great And unfortunately Maggie we're going back to human rights. We're making this one a heavy one y'all But these are all all good questions. So thanks for sticking with us friends Hi, what if anything can the human rights team do to support people who face different kinds of crises than you've described I know the team provides support to people who face persecution as a result of good faced Good faith activities on the sites. What about people in war-torn countries like currently in palestine? As Maggie has rightly said Um, there's very little that we can do in a war zone I compared to you know, local organizations international aid organizations humanitarian Organizations that are already present and on the ground Um, and I want to just preface also, you know, say that I have friends on both sides of the conflict Who have also lost family members on both sides of the conflict Um, and our team, you know, also the human rights team also has people who are impacted So this is not something that's way, you know, so deeply distant from us Um, but what we can do is, you know, first and foremost is, you know As we've done is reaching out to the communities and let them know that we're here On that they can contact us. They can talk with us. There can be, you know, humans who have You know, we're your unique team in the sense that we've all worked in very difficult For you nobody goes in the human rights because this is, you know, exactly a cheerful field You go because you have a deep care And that they know that there are people they can talk with who have some understanding of how you know conflict situations We've also, you know, I'll share the link shortly. We've also done in a You know, large amount of, you know, different activities as we can do as I mentioned, you know, reaching out to the community, you know Joining the keep it on coalition To advocate for keeping the internet on, you know, as it's been restricted in Gaza numerous times since the conflict began Um, we we sit down and we meet when the conflict began and map out what can we do with the resources that we have With the threats that are being faced or the threats we anticipate Are going to emerge and how can we best meet those? So I I don't want to take up the whole session But that's what we do. We do try to do everything we can do to support the community given The limitations of the team and the fact that we are not a humanitarian Organization that can't actually, you know, be on the ground. So I'll share that link with you in just a moment Though hopefully that kind of give you a sense of the question But that you understand that we do sit and meet and try to do everything that we can do within our power Thank you Cameron for that And I want to hopefully share this this resource with you all recently the As of maybe six months ago. Yeah, has anybody asked about unicorns and puppies yet somebody let's look back to the conversation about cookies We were talking about before please Everyone share cookie recipes your favorite cookie Favorites comfort meal We'll just make a big bowl of that and eat that right now. So Friends in the in the chat. I'm going to share mental health resource center The human rights intern about six months ago Created a resource list. So I encourage everyone To check this out share it. This is a hard time for everyone We're all dealing with this from different angles and different experiences and Cameron. Thank you for sharing openly What you did Because I think that we're all dealing with the conflicts and have friends Dealing with conflicts. So I think that some of these resources might be helpful to Some of us on the call or some of us we know And it's always a difficult time When we're dealing with conflict, especially when we all care so much about this world Because that's why we're here working on free knowledge So thank you all for Taking such time to care for each other So let's take a minute and take a deep breath. Oh Um I'm going to go on to the next question Maggie. Have you taken your deep breath and you're ready? I'm ready. All right. I'll paste it in the chat here Um You had uh, you lead a team that oversees disinformation How would your team handle a report that a group was organizing editing campaigns on wikipedia language project With which their own country was at war Well, this is a process question. So that's a lot easier um So ordinarily a report would be submitted to uh The team I believe c a at is where disinformation reports go. I'm sorry. I'm a little disoriented still from some of these heavy conversations Um, it would be thank you. Yeah c a at wikamedia.org It would be submitted to the group and then they would take a look what what Our disinformation team is looking for is not incorrect information. It's not bias not in an ordinary sense It's not the kind of thing that editors can handle through debate Discussion through clarifying sources. It is in fact Um coordinated campaigns of disinformation. So they're looking for They're looking for evidence that there are people who are paid or there are people who are coming together and working with one another in an attempt to bias content And when that happens what they what they first attempt to do is work with local functionaries like arbitration committees Or talk to the stewards or talk to administrators in a project and make them aware But so much depends on the situation that they they see I would say that We wouldn't automatically assume that in such a case there's There's bias. There's there's an attempted Disinformation campaign going on because there are many reasons that a group of wikamedians might choose to Organize an editathon in a language for which their own country was at war including demonstrating some form of solidarity Uh, we don't know, you know until we actually would look at such a case And i'm going to ask nasma if she has anything she'd like to add As in her role in trust and safety leadership Yes, so in situations like this as maggie said, you know, you send a report if you find out about anything like this Or i've seen something like this send a report to see at at wikamedia.org and an assessment is made specifically focusing on if Active mis or disinformation is actually happening on the platform in a coordinated manner It is important to note that a coordinated manner could potentially also mean Uh an editathon if it's you know, if you use the language of an editathon, for example I assume this is referring to um a couple of situations that i've seen in the past Before like years and years ago related to you know, a nation state creating Um a similar language of an editathon, but it's focused on potential misinfo So the the the key factor here is that looking at if it's a coordinated effort to Misinform and spread disinformation on the platform And if that is the case then that is what is going to be looked at and focused on It is important to note that we have a team That is a team of experts focused on disinformation with also have with language capacities as well So if the language is an editathon, for example, which by the way, it is very true There are some circumstances in which you know Language of community building can be used as a method to also spread disinformation right as maggie noted earlier As we've become more and more reliable and viewed as reliable by Countries for example in governments It increases the risk right of language being manipulated and also shifted And so just wanted to note that there is a team of experts that hyper focus on this and are very quick to know when Um when something is actually a coordinated effort and even if the language is an editathon For example, we will be able to see a very very easily what the challenges are and be able to tackle that in right in relationship with administrators and community members Thank you, nesma All right, I want to take a moment and also Read a rate that we have time and space To Had more questions. We actually got through the list of pre-submitted questions even though there were very heavy questions We got through those in a record amount of time actually for the number of questions. We did have So I want to open up the space for anyone in the Zoom room to ask a question again You can message me directly if you'd like for me to voice that For you or you're welcome to unmute and voice your question yourself um, and I also I think I see a question coming up in the YouTube chat, so let me grab that and I invite anyone else Watching on YouTube to share their questions. So I'll give you all a moment to type up your questions Or raise your hand Okay, uh, yon shares in the uh, youtube, uh, I think clarification Um, doesn't this question for the last question Doesn't this seem like a mix up of countries and languages? You cannot be really at war against a language And if so, uh, would all editathons and english wikipedia and countries in which us is at war, uh With be uh, what this question was about I don't know good good point yon. Um, and and you are right, uh languages are seldom at war. Um, but The answer is the same no matter where people suspect bias so But thanks for thanks for pointing that out. All right friends. I don't see any other hands raised um and The question that was asked directly. Um, Maggie will have a follow-up directly Um, is what that person prefers with you. So they'll they'll email with you directly um And any other questions Or discussions we can discussions thoughts feelings Cookie recipes. I mean I still invite those please. I like cookies And also I'm feeling a bit unwell. So if anyone has any remedies to to get better Um, I invite those as well Unfortunately, I've got that touch of that virus that I think everyone in the midwest has for several weeks At a time. I'm feeling just fine, but it sounded a bit rough So any I see briskers hand Oh riskery did you okay? I see you pop up. Please risker go ahead uh Since there's available time and believe it or not, this is my fourth meeting in a row where we've actually achieved the agenda I can't believe it Uh, I just thought I would uh share a little bit of an update on how the uh movement charter drafting committee is going and Pitch out there to everybody who is participating in this call whether in the zoom room uh On uh youtube or watching videos afterwards That we do do community sessions. Uh, we had one at the beginning in december one in november one in october And we'll be doing our next one in february At which point we're hoping Hoping to be able to have some revised drafts for people Uh, and we're looking at you know, we have really taken the community comments very seriously and are really trying to Work with them and and meld them into what we are writing So We want to say thank you to the community. Uh, it has been really really helpful to have people participating In such a wide range of ways. We have ambassadors in various communities. We met with a lot of people at wikimania and Over the last few months many of our members have attended regional conferences Where we've also talked with people and learned an awful lot about your thinking So we are really appreciative of the feedback that we are getting from our our global community whether in uh regional conferences participating on in our open calls Uh writing on meta and we are taking it seriously. We are going to be having something coming Probably early february. Uh, we are meeting in person again at the end of january and We had our last official meeting earlier this morning And we are looking forward to a few days of Not having to think about the charter now So I just wanted to share that update with everybody and If you have any questions about about, uh How the charter is going what we're working on have any suggestions as to what we can improve Please let us know because we we really do want to hear from The people who to whom the charter will apply So I am complete Thank you risker. Uh, I I really appreciate the work by the way that you and the others on the committee are doing um I know it is a challenge to come up with something that works for such a diverse and global community And really also encourage anyone and just get everyone you can involved to make sure that what they are doing Reflects the best of all of our thinking We tend to Narrow down when work goes on a while it gets to be just a small group of the most interested And that that's not always where where we get our best outcomes We have 15 more minutes And I sometimes tell people that awkward silences are the best way to get me to tell everything I know So I do hope somebody has questions or comments or conversation Otherwise, you'll all know my social security number by the end of the hour Does anyone it want to share Something that they're excited about that they've done recently this year is we're closing This calendar year anything that you've done on wiki No, Cameron, you want to jump in and share Well, not on wiki, but the reason I'm so jet lag is I just got engaged. That's what I was doing on the holidays I went had a conference for representing wiki media And then decided to extend it into a trip because it was in Africa never been and we got engaged So thankfully she said yes, so just thought let's share that. It's a pleasant jet lag Congratulations, Cameron Very happy I also want to invite either Nazma or patrick to talk about what the u4c is doing Where where that work is although I look forward to hearing more about about your next project Cameron I can quickly share. It's kind of hard after hearing an engagement. Congratulations Cameron So the u4c building committee has finished up the final draft the final draft of the charter after the community feedback So we are preparing for a vote in mid january. So things are just being translated right now for review So it's an exciting time the building committee has been working really hard to get this to a final state I know how much folks Want a u4c to be set up, you know to be able to create those checks and balances And so we are almost there. So just a massive shout out Uh to the building committee for spending that time Thank you. And I uh, we we have another question that's come in so Jackie can read it or question her if you want to ask a few questions up to you Yes, I'll give a few seconds Person who asked the question if you would like to raise your hand and read it Otherwise I will Yeah, you don't have to if you don't want to be a scene on the youtube video. It's fine. Yeah I will go ahead and read the question If there is a sexual harassment that has happened at one of the wikimedia events, how does it need to be handled? I've read this link about the About a certain situation The chapter handled this by creating one-year ban to the perpetrator But by now the ban has expired. I also want to know What I can do to support And help the community member and make sure that the wikimedia community is truly a safe space for everyone So we're very fortunate today to have the person with us who handles our on the ground event safety work Before putting her on the spot though. I want to say sexual harassment at At movement events can range from Contact that might be appropriate in one culture and is into another All the way up to sexual assault So the answer is always going to be somewhat context specific But with that with that said uh nesma, do you want to talk about it as an experienced event safety professional? Yes, apologies that you all are hearing me speak quite a lot. Um, so in situations like this, um, often Different communities have different approaches to how long a ban could potentially be A good example of that is there is a recent issue that happened in a chapter of Of sexual harassment and the ban was actually five years for example Um, so what actually happens in these situations? It's important to note that the friendly space policy clearly states what is acceptable behavior and not acceptable behavior and action must be taken So that is one piece here, right? So then the how the community acts on it is one way Another thing that happens is that it surfaced to us the foundation. So mattering on the situation at hand Um, the you know, the severity of the circumstance how the community has been able to handle it We take the next steps to think about an event ban, which is a global ban Um, and so the global ban allows for if based off of the situation at hand If for example, the situation is quite severe or the community has tackled it But for example, additional measures are necessary We can move towards an event ban on an event ban would mean a blanket ban across all events Any foundation related events any community related events in complete space? There's an event ban And so I do think that the complexities obviously of sexual harassment from, you know, the unwanted talking Or you know reaching out to somebody To obviously the case of sexual assault the severity is what changes the level of the ban And it's important that no matter what the case is it's a maintenance of safe spaces, you know, we cannot also we cannot Unfortunately Promise a hundred percent safe space, but what we can do it's constantly work towards safer spaces, right? And I think that is the piece where the community working with the foundation is really important And often folks surface it up to us when they actually go through an investigation So that we can also assess on our end if this if it's necessary for an additional ban or additional measures To ensure that for example, if it's, you know, matter of a situation that the individual cannot actually attend any foundation wide events at all Moving forward and so I do think that the support, you know needed after a ban is lifted For example, if it's a year is a conversation that communities actually often have with the victim and the person that's actually being impacted And so that's why it's also a case by case scenario And obviously when we have situations where someone could potentially be a repeat offender That is also something that is put into consideration if the behavior continues that the larger ban happens Hopefully that makes sense there A tiny little bit of additional context For those who aren't familiar with the professional jargon and the immediate aftermath of an event Of an attack we refer to a person as a victim and of a sexual assault or sexual crime This is not a term that is preferred to be used long term Because it stigmatizes a person who's been hurt But for those of you who are familiar with the fact that we usually call people survivors when they have Moved beyond an incident the term victim here refers to a very narrow window of time The immediate aftermath of a crime Maggie I also follow up really quickly to state that if at any point I will say this to everybody right if we know if you see that A community member has actually gone through a ban But the behavior has continued and you know the maintenance of the self-governance processes have not continued to ensure safety of spaces This is a moment where you can refer to the trust and safety team That is partly what we're here for right so the times where if communities are unable to handle the challenge Or for example, the severity has risk has shifted You know, we are there to also be able to provide review And next steps on the situation at hand right to be able to maintain safer spaces in relation to our friendly space policy But also the maintenance of the universal code of conduct I just want to voice what Maggie put in the chat real quick and I do see your hand We can also help people connect with legal authorities for what's that's worth So Maggie and and Nesma. Thank you for speaking about that and thank you person who asked the question And considering safety of the whole community. Thank you All right friend with your hand up. Please go ahead Hello everyone, I'm Hari and I have a follow-up questions regarding Regarding what Raisha asked in the in the chat in the chat meeting and in the mini chat my first question is I haven't actually I haven't read the link Raisha link in the meeting chat If and and please correct me if I'm wrong if I'm not mistaken The chapter If the sexual harassment If the sexual harassment is happened in one chapter the chapter Is oblige to report this to the Wikimedia foundations? Is it correct? That's my first question. The second one is if that was correct If if that was correct and the and this Wikimedia chapter where when this when this sexual harassment happened we're not reporting this reporting the incident to the foundation what will happen to the chapter And the third one I would like to a response to what Nesma just Answered before or where the Where after the after the bed after the band towards the perpetrator is already ended and The community should the and the community should decide what what will happen next Towards this incidence What what what if the the Wikimedia of this actual harassment is very traumatized and Decided to no, I don't want no, I don't want to involve in any of wiki activities anymore What what? If that happened then what the community should Do or handle this kind of situation That's that that's all my questions. Thank you so much Okay, I think I I think I captured that and I also think I have to crowd source your first question I I am not actually deeply familiar with the chapter agreements because That has not been part of my work So I'm not sure if chapters are automatically required to report a potential criminal activity Or not does anyone in the room or on youtube know the answer to that question? If not, I will have to follow up on that part Each chapter agreement is unique. However, they are standard. I can link Okay, one of the chapters agreements in here. However, without they're they're all unique tweets chapter Okay, so I mean off the top of my head. The answer is I don't know And it might depend according to what jacks has on the individual chapter We'll have to check with a lawyer to see if they're required to report such things and if it's in their chapter agreement And they don't do it that I imagine that would Require some sort of penalty um and carol is sharing some links And uh, there's also a share from a member of the room of a general link So we'll have to look at that one But I will say in terms of your second question if the victim is traumatized and doesn't want to continue on wikimedia anymore I wish I had never seen that happen, but I have and it's not just victims of Of sexual harassment. It's victims of many different kinds of harassment or many different issues It's to the people who were mistreated In the absence of the ability to do that Uh, when I can only answer for myself when people come to me and they say after what happened to me in the movement I don't want to be here anymore. That makes me extremely sad. I give them my my empathy. I try to encourage them Um, I don't push them to change their mind because they need to feel safe where they are And I feel like it is incorrect for me to uh Make them doubt the severity of what happened to them I encourage them to come back if they feel moved to in the future I encourage them to reach out to me if they want to talk about coming back Um, and I continue to try to advocate for good policies and approaches across the whole movement to keep these things from happening Does anybody else have any input mesma anyone? In our last yeah, actually Yeah, racha actually brought exactly what I was going to say is that in relation to events Yes, it has to be reported. That's absolutely true. So that's actually what I was going to share Is that for events it does need to be reported for general situations that might happen That is obviously based off of the agreement that they have with the foundation Um, but yes, we do that's actually one of the things about how we're able to understand for the event bands as well Is that sometimes it's actually not happening at events that are foundation led events But actually community events and so that is why we are aware of situations that happen at events It is part of the agreement that you do have to let us know because it allows us to assess For events moving forward if this is something that needs to trigger an event ban So I just wanted to provide that clarity of there's a difference between Something that's happening at an event and how we focus on events compared to for example Activities of the chapter that are not event related that may also surface But the last point is as well is that if Unfortunately, as Maggie noted, there are so many people who have unfortunately left the movement because you're unable to engage after You know a case of harassment If you do know of a situation like that Where for example, we can provide additional support if needed For example, if things are not uh, the protections are not being set up Please reach out to us. We can be able to you know, do another review of the situation if needed Once again, it's after obviously the self-governance processes Have not worked and so I just wanted to also surface that as well There are limits of of course of how much we can do but we are Here to provide an extra firm hand if needed to maintain the universal code of conduct and our family space policies We are at time. So I'm going to take the liberty of saying how much I appreciate you all coming I hope that we make enough space for those of you who do show up to actually share your thoughts I value you and your presence And I'm sorry that this conversation our had such heavy conversation Unfortunately, that is the nature of trust and safety and human rights committee support is sometimes a happier place So I hope that you will all have good end of the year Those of you who are celebrating the end of the year or other holidays in the coming season I myself am off for a winter break and looking forward to it but I thank you for coming and keeping me company and talking about hard things because they matter Just want to voice that and say thank you everyone and invite you all to Unmuse your cameras go away or unmute and say goodbye to everyone Thanks for joining and being human together Sometimes that can be the most hardest And vulnerable thing of all it's so scary But thank you Maggie for opening up and being vulnerable with us and thank you everyone for opening up with these questions and Showing really how much you care because these hard questions Show how much this space means to you and how much we all mean to each other So thank you And see you all soon. Bye. Thanks all. Thanks Maggie. Thanks Jackie Thank you everyone