 One, two, three, four, five. That's all you have left. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten. No, only five. Where's our pitch man? Can we get the pitch man on the mic, please? I'm getting ready, Mike. I don't know how to sell any of our... I'm not the salesman here. We're a horrible duo when it comes to that kind of stuff. Yeah, that's right. Hey, there's only five days left. Whoa, there he is! There he is! Oxyclone. Now we're ready to sell. Five days left for our maps. It's like a shot of cocaine. RGB bundle and our Super Bundle promotion. So check this out. This month is the craziest promotion we've ever run. Craziest ever. Ever. Whoa. Insane, literally crazy. Really? Enroll in the Maps Super Bundle or the Maps RGB bundle, and you get four free included. We just throw it in for free. We're going crazy, like I said. Oh my God. You get the No BS, the No BS six pack formula and the Fasting and Nutrition Guide thrown in for free. For enrolling. Fantastic. For enrolling in one of our two most popular bundles. Now remember, the RGB bundle includes our core programs. Maps Anabolic, Maps Performance, and Maps Aesthetic. The heavy hitters. Nine months of exercise programming. The Maps Super Bundle has that plus prime and anywhere. Those are the other two Maps programs. You basically get everything and then we throw in a bunch of more stuff. The most effective way for you guys to get ripped and sexy. It's true. There's only five days left for this promotion. Check it out. Go to mindpumpmedia.com and enroll right now. T-shirt. Do it if you love us. How many Douglas? 10. What? We don't call for them anymore. No. We don't call for them. Don't say that. No, we don't. We don't. Remember? I don't want to have to call for it anymore. At the end of our episodes now, we tell people about our YouTube channel. We don't promote the T-shirt. I don't like having to ask people. Is that the lowest to like us? You know what? It's not even that, dude. It's that it's confusing as shit to leave a review. Do you remember how to do it? Because I have instruction. Maybe we have all Android listening. I literally write down the instruction so I can explain it because it's so goddamn complicated. Can you even leave a review on Android? That's a good question. Here's what you do to leave a review. Get with an Android. Go to the search function. Type in Mind Pump. Even if you're subscribed, you still have to do this. Mind Pump. Once you type it in, hit Enter, and then click on our little icon. When that pops up, you'll see a little button there that says Reviews. Click on that, and there you go. Leave a review. And you might win a T-shirt. You might. All right, we're giving out three shirts today. Right on, Doug. First up, Eminem 94. All right. Second, Oh Man. Oh Man. And then we have Run Chincey. Run Chincey. All of you. Winners. All of you. A bunch of wieners. Yeah. Chincey, run. Run. My clothes are falling off. They're Chincey. So send the name I just read to itunesatmindpumpmedia.com with your shirt size and your shipping address. And we'll get that right out to you. If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump. Mind Pump. With your hosts. Sal de Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. We should harmonize in Kermit Voice. This, uh, maps. Yeah, here, I got something for you. Maps. People still don't really know what maps is. What do you mean? They don't. You know, they know the acronym and all that, but I want to present it better in a better way. Hit it. How are you going to do that? I want to know what maps is. I want you to tell me. Oh, that's beautiful. God damn it. I want to feel what maps is. Whoa, we got really good there. Why can't you show me? It looked awful. It was good. It was good. Sorry, yeah. It's the high ones. It was a nipple stiffening performance. Oh my god, look, it's sales are doubling right now. This is amazing. Can you tell me what maps is? When you do the high notes. When you do the high notes, it's like, I don't know, man, it's like world peace or something dramatic like that. Everybody's balls kind of go up a little bit. You know what I mean? They come back inside your body because they want to warm up. Hey, hey. Balls in your body. You went to Yosemite, huh? Yes, I did go. Yosemite. Yosemite. Yosemite. You know, you ever hear someone mispronounce a word and then it makes you forget how to pronounce that word? It's like working with Adam. That's right. Every day. I did go to Yosemite. Was that your first time? No. Oh, you've been there before? Yosemite is breathtakingly beautiful. It's crazy when you get in there and you look at these cliffs. There was a shit ton of water because of all the rain. So the waterfalls were just epic. Bro, we drove in to Yosemite. I was staying in, I stayed at Tanaya Lodge, which is this amazing lodge right outside of Yosemite Park. How are the rates there? I haven't stayed in an actual room there in a long time. Well, so I tried to get a room. What's per night? I tried to get a room in the Yosemite Hotel, which used to be called Awahi. Yeah, it gets booked really fast. Oh, that's fucking expensive as shit. The place I stayed at is pretty expensive, too, but not quite as expensive. Was it in the actual village? It was out. It's not in Yosemite. It's right outside Yosemite. Outside the park? Yeah, but its own surroundings are gorgeous. There's lots of hiking and stuff to do there as well. So it's an amazing place. I actually posted some videos from there on the Instastory or whatever. It's gorgeous. What's the... Can you tell me the rates on the two different places? What's the rates? The Awahi, I think you'll pay like at least $500 a night. Okay. Where I stayed was like, I think, was like $300. So it's expensive, but it's really, really nice. And I just... Fuck, it's just... It's crazy that it's in our backyard. It's not that far, dude. It's not that much further than Fresno. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I know. And I can't believe I don't go there more often. It was spectacular. When we drove into the park, there's this one point that you get to... When you go through the tunnel, you guys ever go... Well, so it's got different entrances, but the entrance that we took, you have to go through this... You're driving through the park and then you're driving towards the valley floor or whatever. And you go through this long-ass tunnel through the mountain or whatever. And when you come out of it... You hold your breath the whole time. Wow, that's what you're supposed to do. I thought I was the only one that did that. Oh, every time. So that's a thing? Yeah. Wow, what is it for? Is it good luck? No, there's something... Actually, there's a story behind that. Four miners probably. No, there's a story behind that. Okay. Yeah, yeah, Google that. That'd be great if we had to go. Goddamn, I thought you knew it. Google it. No, that's why we have fucking Taylor here. That's what he's supposed to do. Goddamn, man. He's supposed to Google shit like that. Yeah, we're just spitballing over here. There's a reason why people do that. Can you find that out? Yeah. Jesus Christ. Whatever. My God. So anyway, we drive through the tunnel and then you all of a sudden get this ridiculous view where you can see Half Dome, Al Capitan, and Bridal Veil, which is this waterfall that's just incredible, right? And the waterfall... It's tons of water because obviously we've had a very wet season. And the waterfall was coming down and it was like the sunlight was hitting it right, and it was shrouded in rainbows. I'm not making this up. Wow. Like... Double rainbow. Yeah. It was like rainbow explosion. Everyone was viral. Was that? Yeah. Dude, if you should have shot a video and been like... Have you seen that sound? Have you seen that sound? What? Double rainbow? Yeah. Of course. Of course, right. Everybody has seen that. It's a double rainbow. Why did that go so viral? Because he was fucking trippin', dude. You feel his bewildering amazement. You really thought it was magic. We just got off a phone call with our BBTV, right? So our broadband... BBW. Yeah, that helps us out with our YouTube channel, right? Yeah. I don't... There's nothing about that video that I felt like falls into... Oh wait, that was a U-Porn, my bad. Wrong one, dude. What was it about that video? I didn't see anything... Yeah, what was it about that video that made it go viral? It didn't fall in the category of all the things that we could have done? Here's the problem. I think when you're looking at... I think it was a guy. You're looking at YouTube videos. There's a formula to getting more views, but there's not a formula for viral. It's very... Like, you can look back and say, oh, I know why it's viral, but it's hard to predict why shit goes viral, dude. Like, it really is. Like, there's some things that my kids will watch. What does the fox say? So it's funny that... It's funny that... Fucking millions, like hundreds and hundreds of millions of views. So it's funny you say that because the book Hitmakers would completely disagree with you. There actually is a formula to that. It's pretty rad. So that's a book for you guys to look up Hitmakers, an excellent book, and it talks exactly about what you're saying right now. Now, is it... Do you think it's retrospective? Like, oh, here's why they went viral? Or is it, hey, they're re-engineering it? Or are they predicting it? It's everything from music to Instagram posts to YouTube videos. Well, I know they have a formula for music for sure. I've known that for a long time. And they're very similar. So that's a great book to read, like those that are like in the social media world and actually care about all that stuff. That was a recommendation from Tom Billu. And it took me a while to get to the first chapter because it was a little slow and it wasn't good. But then it really gets... So it gets better after that. Yeah, yeah. And it goes right into that what you're saying. So something that I did in Yosemite that I wanted to share with you guys, are you guys familiar with grounding? Have you heard of the term grounding? Make sure Doug, you link that in the show notes too. Yeah. And then Greenfield's the one that really kind of turned us on to that. Yeah. So have you tried it since we talked to them? Since we've done that. Yeah. I mean, I walk barefoot sometimes. So grounding is this... It sounds hokey. Woo-woo. It sounds hokey, right? And the theory is, you know, that there's obviously that modern shoes, you know, they have plastic soles typically. And they're like electrical insulators. So you block the beneficial flow of electrons that come from the earth to your body and some studies will show that the... That earthy grounding improves things like blood, viscosity, heart rate, variability, inflammation, et cetera, et cetera, because of the flow of electrons that come from the earth to your body in vice versa. And I don't know if I necessarily believe in that explanation, but here's what I did in Yosemite. You know how when you're driving through Yosemite, there's all these different stops that you can stop at and you can take a look at all the sites or whatever? There was this one place we stopped, and there was lots of these like smooth kind of stones and stuff with water kind of trickling on them. I'm like, you know, I'm going to try grounding. And I did this with my kids. I took my kids there. We all took our shoes off, and we walked around barefoot. And anecdotally, it was, I mean, it was invigorating. And we do know that walking barefoot does stimulate the things, you know, obviously the sensory on the bottom of your feet. But walking outside has got a different feel to it. You know, I definitely don't agree with the fact there's all this science supporting it. I think what they're trying to do is explain why it feels good. But if you think about it, humans were meant to walk around barefoot outside, and it does feel good, man. It felt fucking amazing. I did it quite a bit in Yosemite. I'd just walk around barefoot. Hopefully I didn't get a tick. I kind of equate that to like, you know, the theory that pyramids were like a power station for alien vessels. You know, it's very similar. Maybe. I don't know. But it could have happened. I look at it way more simplistic than that. It's very, very simple if you look at it this way. It's like we, when we have shoes on, right? And nowadays with like the heels and the big, you know, squishy bottoms and the more, you know, all this comfort shit, right? Well, it's like having a cast on a part of your body. And on a part of your body that happens to have a ton of bones and muscles and nerves in it. Sure. Just getting reconnected to the ground is just going to help strengthen that connectivity. New stimulus, yeah. But here's what's interesting. Neurological patterns. Listen, the reason why I do it and why I preach and tell people to do it is because of that simple reason. It's a part of your body that connects you to things, right? So then I get that's the whole purpose of how they try and, you know, explain this of being connected or grounded. Yeah, but so check this out, right? Think about like for yourself. Walk barefoot on actual grass and then walk barefoot on like astroturf and see if you notice, if you feel a difference. I kind of feel like they're, I don't know, I don't know what it is. I don't, I definitely don't subscribe to the whole. Well, when you walk on the dirt and stuff, you get sticks and pine needles and fucking little baby pebbles in your foot and that fucking sucks. Astroturf feels great. His pants bite you. And so, and okay, so when you go to the, what are they, 200,000 or 400,000 nerves that end in your foot, like so. Probably more than that. It's 200 or 400. It's one or the other. So there's a ton, right? And so I get that walking over pine needles and this and that, you're going to strengthen that and strengthen all the muscles and connect you to your feet better. But as far as it getting any further than that, as far as positive and negative, you know, connection and neurons traveling because like, come on, dude, like it's like those, it's like those bracelets that people, the magnetic bracelets. Yeah, the magnetic bracelets and what that's supposed to. Well, okay. I mean, similar. I'm not necessarily agreeing with their explanation of this electron transfer, although that does happen. I don't know if that's really what's causing it, but it is interesting. You know, my explanation is a little different. It's kind of similar to yours, Adam. I think we have these, you know, those parts of our brain that connect to all these, you know, nerve endings that are underdeveloped because our feet are constantly insulated with, you know, souls and stuff. You know, but it was very interesting to walk around. I never do it. That's the thing. Like I thought to myself like, how often my barefoot outside fucking never unless I'm at the beach. Well, you know, I thought about that too because I finally saw that picture from National Geographic of the guy that was in the rainforest and his feet. Have you seen that yet? We talked about this, I thought. They look different. Yeah, it was just like very muscular and it looked like, like fingers more than it looked like toes. Yeah. Well, it's like Ben Greenfield's feet, man. When you look at his feet, they just, I've never seen another. It looks like a hobbit. Yeah. His feet are all. Building up, you know, a muscular. So response on that note, what you said about the beach is probably one of the best things in my opinion that you could do. I mean, it's like what people do for like hand therapy where they just dive their hands in rice for like. Walk through. Walk through. Yeah. Yeah. Walking through sand has to be one of the best things that you could possibly do for your feet. I mean. I think walking. I think walking in on different terrain because I, you know, if we apply what we understand about exercise and movement to that, you know, to what you're talking about. If you get really good at walking in sand, there's probably a recruitment pattern that's ideal for that versus walking on grass versus walking on dirt. You know what I'm saying? I think, I think walking through sand has to have way more carry over to the other ones and the other way around. If you walked barefoot all the time on just dirt, right? And then also you got introduced to sand, guaranteed to be sore as fuck. If you walked barefoot on sand all the time, then you got introduced to dirt. I bet you wouldn't be sore. I don't know. I don't know. It's interesting. I wonder, I wonder how the recruitment patterns would be for that. It's really specific because sand is pretty, it's pretty unique, right? You'd have to build up a callus for sure for the different terrain. But anyway, nonetheless, Yosemite is just, it's a fucking amazing place. Well, back to the tunnel thing. Doug pulled it up for us. Doug, let me see the tunnel. Yeah. Why do people hold their breath? There is a theory behind that or like a, what should I call it? What do you call that? Superstition. Yeah, superstition. Oh, it's a superstition. Yeah. So it's, yeah. Mainly people do it for good luck. It doesn't say why it started or how it got started. No, there's no real good explanation. No. Well, that was a buzz kill. Yeah. Sorry about that. Adam, you went to refuge? Yeah. Is that the name of the place? Yeah. I've always wanted to go there. So. It's like a spa, right? Carmel. It is, yeah. And I'm not a big fan. I'm not as big spa guy. Just, and the main reason why I don't like spas, I'll tell you right now is because when most of them that you go to are split, men and women. And so. Oh, I hate that. If I'm going to go with my girl, right? So it's like part of our. Unless you want to get away from her. Yeah. Honey, let's go to the spa. You go on that side. And that's not. I mean, if I'm going to get away from my girl, I'm going to do something way cooler than a spa. That's just the way I like, I'm going to go do like a sporting event or go do something where that she's not into, right? Which actually she'd be into sports. But the spa idea. Yeah, go to a monster gym. We all know that all girls love spa. Like that's just built in their DNA, right? Like women love to go to spas. They're awesome. And I'm a guy that's, I'm down, whatever. I'm down for a show of that. But I'm like super anti. If it's a place like we've been to before where you get there and you split off from each other. Cause I'm like, I'm not that much into the spa treatment where I want to spend four hours of my day not with her. When I already, I don't get a lot of time with her. So the refuge is actually co-ed. And so it's really cool the way it's, it's beautiful too. Like it's, you get there and, and mind you too, we were there on a Friday, you know, early. So you probably wasn't as busy. I had like, it felt like we had the place to ourselves. It was super cool. They had all these wet, they had a wet and dry sauna. Huge and really nice, really clean. That you, that was attached to the restrooms and it had direct access to the outside part. The outside part had hot and cold plunges and everything in between. And it's dope. They had like, they have these beautiful waterfalls falling into these little mini pools. And the mini pool would have a sign next to it. And it would be like warm, hot, really hot. And then like, based on the pool or it would be like cold. And they'd have these little like snowflakes to show you like cold, really cold. Did you do the freezing one? Oh yeah. Yeah. It was intense dude. It was rad. So, and then they had little fire pits all over the place. So you can pay to just do that, right? Actually, so we got a massage there. And the massage, I think it was 150, which is not bad at all for, and it was a great massage. So we each got massages. And then when you get a massage, you have full access to that free all day long. So you go there and it's got, you know, the little filtered water they had, they had like the, not sage, but like another burning wood thing that puts off an aroma that's supposed to be good, like to ingest. I don't know what the fuck it was. Can't think of the name of it. Sorry for tearing that up. But there's that. They had the dry, the wet sauna, incredible bathrooms and everything was really plush and clean and nice. And where we were lounging, all these beautiful lounge chairs that you can hang out. And it's outdoor? Yeah. See, I want to go there. Yeah, no, it's, I've been to a lot of spas, right? I love spas. And it's normally not my thing, but I go, and especially if my girl wants to go, I'm down to do that, especially if it's like a weekend where we're doing something together. This one was by far my favorite I've ever been to. It's in Carmel. It's called The Refuge. They had their websites, therefuge.com. I just, I did an Insta story on it. Those that were, that followed me and actually showed some of the inside. I wasn't supposed to do that, but I was like, dude, I got to show people like how bad it is. Are you, can you, is it clothing optional? Is it one of those? Or you have to wear bathing suit out in the wet area? I didn't ask. I assumed it's not, I don't think it's nude because it was out in outdoor and to the public. So I doubt you could be walking, I didn't see anybody walking around nude. Okay. Yeah, I don't, I don't think so. I mean, the restrooms, the male restrooms. Well, that's different. Yeah, right? In the shower area and all that stuff like that for sure. But the sauna and the, and the steam room were both co-ed. So I doubt you could be. Damn, I want to go there. Yeah. Nice. Super bad. Very, very nice, very clean, beautiful, beautiful part of Carmel. I mean, just, we went up there just for the night. We spent one night. We stayed at a place called the Sanctuary. Also awesome hotel. We stayed in a suite right on the, on the beach. I think it took a shot of that in my, on my Instagram. And it was absolutely beautiful. That's great. Yeah, good little getaway. Did you do anything cool? I took the kids to Monster Jam. Awesome. We did a little white trash outing. You know what I mean? So they saw the monster trucks? Yeah, they love, oh man. Have they done that before? It was fun watching them. What? Have your kids seen that before? Yeah, we've done that one time. Yeah. Like there were, there's another place, a venue that I think might actually be cooler because in Salinas they have this truck that like you can actually get in the truck and in the back and then you like harness up and everything. And so I did that with Ethan when he was like, you know, like, I don't know, maybe two, three years ago. And dude, this driver just whips you around, does donuts and figure eights and all that kind of stuff. And I mean, that was super like crazy. But I went, I went to one of those when I was a kid and I was shocked at, I was young, right? I was maybe probably like 11 or 12. And I was like super excited because I love, remember Bigfoot? Bigfoot was like a big thing. I know Bigfoot doesn't exist anymore. It was so huge when we were kids. Great digger still there. Great digger, yeah. So when I went, when I was like 11, I didn't realize how fucking loud those trucks are. I didn't realize that shit. Nitro. Yeah, especially when they're just, you know, coming out. They're not that loud. But then when they hit the, whatever, the gas where I was like, Yeah. Yeah. And then the tractors. The tractors are, did they have a mud pole? What do they call them? Oh, tractor poles. Oh my God. I've been to those. That was actually funny because when I was a kid, that was like the most horrific accident I've ever seen. Was that one of those tractor pole events? I've seen some crazy accidents. Well, some guy like, some guy got mangled by one of them. Like he was behind it and then just ran right over his legs. I think that's why they don't have them. Those ones are really dangerous, right? Yeah. Because when they're pulling. It scarred me. Yeah. I've seen some. You saw that shit in person? Yeah. When I was a kid, I saw it happen to a guy. Yeah, it's horrible. That's messed up, dude. Here I am still going. Dude, that, how did you guys feel about the, the chubby bunny contest? I can't say I'm not shocked that you would win that animal. I know. I kind of felt like you guys. He's got a lot of storage in them cheeks. You do. You'd have a lot of cheek area. I had no idea. I didn't even know that was a thing, right? So Taylor was like, hey, we got to do this, you know, it's Easter. Let's do this chubby bunny thing. And I'm like, what's chubby bunny? I don't get it. He's like, no, it's a thing. You try and stuff as many of these chubby bunnies, these little, you know, those little marshmallows, right? The little peeps. Yeah, the peeps, right? You try and stuff as many as you can in your mouth. And you have to say chubby bunny. Yeah. So that was interesting. If you were on our private forum, you got to see it live. Yeah. We did a contest live on the private forum, and we're going to, he just edited it up and he's going to put like a clip of it on our YouTube channel, right? Yeah. He said, I think he's going to drop it. It'll be live by the time this goes live. Yeah. So it'll be up. You go to YouTube and go to Mind Pump TV and you'll get to see me, Adam and Justin competing in the chubby bunny contest. Find out who the champion was. Bring on the chubby bird. Chubs. Queen Qua! You go ahead and play with him. Chimera Qua! Today's Qua is being brought to you by Chimera Coffee. It's the only coffee that is infused with all natural new tropics for a cleaner, calmer, and more focused fuzz without the crash. Put the Chimera link at mindpumpmedia.com and input the discount code MindPump, a checkout for 10% off. It's the motherfucking Qua! The eagle has landed! Quiqua. Our first question is from Akam Fit. What are your thoughts on the reverse dieting trend to speed up metabolism? You know what made me think- Is that still trend? Well, I don't know if it's a trend. So I have two opinions on this. What really got me thinking about this quite a bit in a different way was when we had dinner with Dom Diagostino. And remember he brought- I can't remember the other kid's name. He brought him with him was one of his understudies. And you know we were discussing reverse dieting and so number one if you're in pre-contest mode and you're in a contest and when you get out of the contest I completely agree with the reverse dieting. I think it's a great way to get out of a contest because when you go into a contest your bodies- you've got some adaptive thermogenesis going on where your metabolism has slowed down quite a bit. Another word- what he means by that is as you're getting closer to a show you're reducing calories, reducing calories, reducing calories and your body is getting used to lower, lower, lower, lower, lower. Yeah, you just get- your metabolism really slows down. You've got girls who are consuming less than a thousand calories a day. You've got guys who are consuming 1500 calories a day. They get into contests and they come out of contests and they have issues with what do they eat afterwards and you see these massive weight gains afterwards. And so reverse dieting is slowly bringing the calories up in a nutshell, basically slowly bringing the calories up so that they can come back to eating more regularly or a regular diet I should say. Now, some people are taking this and they're saying, hey, let's continue doing this and get my metabolism so fast that I can now eat, you know, 4000 calories a day and not gaining any weight, for example, I'm just using an arbitrary number. And Dom and his understudy brought up that this may actually be an issue because you don't necessarily want to your body to have to consume more and more calories to say the same way. Although it sounds like it's fun. It sounds great because now you can eat more food. Think about it from this point of view. You're processing more food. You have to eat more food. There's more inflammatory markers that are probably going to go up. More work is having to happen. More work is happening. I always tell people, like, think of it like your car is like an engine, right? And the more that engine has to work and the harder it has to work, the more wear and tear and the sooner that engine is going to break down. So doing that, you're adding more horsepower, right? So by increasing the caloric intake, you're ramping up the horsepower in that engine, which is awesome, right? More horsepower. But, you know, as you continue to press more horsepower, which means normally more forced air going through the engine, it's more likely it's going to break down earlier or more wear and tear going. So there is a part of me that agrees with him, with that, because of, like, if you, from that point, which I think you agree, right? But then there's a part of me that whenever we're speaking to the majority, I feel like that's where our message normally comes from. And so I kind of disagree, right, because that's a very, very small percentage of people have this roaring metabolism and can, or aren't handling enough calories or shouldn't be adding more to speed of their metabolism. I think 80 plus percent of all clients that I've ever trained had slower metabolisms due to starving their body, not eating enough and having more metabolic, leaning more towards metabolic damage. And so teaching them to reverse diet, increase their caloric intake over time to help speed their metabolism, I think is smart and for the most part good for a majority. I, but, you know, it's, I think it's, we have to be clear. It doesn't just bumping your calories up over time and not being active and not building muscle. I don't think it's going to do much for you. It won't work. It won't work. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, you won't, if you just increase calories, you know, every single week or every single month, however you want to break it up and you don't move more to. And the theory is that you can keep doing this and get your metabolism, you know, really working really fast. I don't know if I definitely think that there's a point that it stops. Of course, you can't keep going forever. And how much can you possibly amplify your metabolic rate through this process of reverse dieting? Well, I think that being the focus and not the ramping up of movement in conjunction with that. I do, I mean, look, from a health standpoint, from a longevity standpoint, ideally you'd want to be able to be active, have good hormone profile, have good strength and run off of less calories. It's actually more efficient. I mean, efficiency is always. Well, it's about like, you got to process it. I mean, why overload your body if you don't have to? You just want to like, you know, operate off of the optimal amount of nutrients that your body like is seeking. Like I just feel like more than not, we're over saturating our body. You are. And here's the thing. Like if you look at the vast majority of people and you look at big studies that are done on this, like eating more typically leads to poor health, eating less typically leads to. And I say typically because there's a lot of factors in that, obviously you can eat less, but you shouldn't. I feel like we can go round and round with this because then you're not factoring in either, what if I'm building? What if I'm putting muscle on? Because if I'm increasing my calories, you know, trying to speed my metabolism up like this question, but I'm also lifting weight and I'm programming to build muscle and size. If I, if I increase my calories, but let's say over a six month period, I've got my metabolism up to where it's utilizing a thousand more calories, but a main reason why it's utilizing a thousand more calories is not because I've slowly ramped up my food, but more so because I've increased my lean body mass. And now for every extra pound of muscle my body has, it's needing an additional 40 to 60 calories every single day. So if you look at it like that, it's not a balance of performance gains versus longevity. And if you want to sustain that lean body, I mean, I'll tell you right now, I'm dealing with that right now. So I'm in this like, when I'm measuring my food and I'm actually actively going after calories, right? Where I'm consuming 4,000 to 5,000 calories a day, I can carry more lean body mass on me. When I just eat like I am intuitively right now, I'm about 205 to 210 pounds because that's comfortable. That's natural. It's not me trying to eat more, but if I want more lean body mass, if I want to be more muscular and bigger for my frame, I have to go out. I need to increase my calories. Of course, but again, we have to be clear here. The concept of reverse dieting to continue to speed up your metabolism is really a theory and it's not really backed by anything. Now reverse dieting out of pre-contest mode is completely different. No brainer. That's a no brainer. That's a no brainer. That's completely different because you went from a normal metabolism to a super slow one and now you're trying to bring it back up to normal. But what if you already had a normal metabolic rate? Can you speed it up? How do you, how do we measure that? How do I say I guess whatever you're, you're right. I mean, how do you determine what's normal? I guess, I guess a healthy one. But okay, here's another, here's a hypothetical question. If let's say you could weigh 230 pounds, 10% body fat, lean, muscular, whatever, and your body can maintain that at 2500 calories versus your body maintaining the same performance and everything at 3000 calories, which one is healthier? The more efficient one is going to be typically healthier because you're operating on lower calories, you're operating on lower intake of potential, you know, inflammatory foods, you're operating on less, you know, having to break down less proteins, carbohydrates. Now, this is a hypothetical question and I don't even know if that's even something you can do. We have to take into lifestyle account now too, though. And what's being realistic with people that are more than likely going to go have a glass of wine here and there, go have a meal out that's probably 1500 to 2000 calories and by me building you up from 2500 to a 3500 calorie BMR or calorie maintenance level now gives you a little bit more flexibility to weave in and out of your diet and not put on a bunch of excess weight. Yeah, that's a good point because now there may be detriment to eating more and being less efficient. However, it also may be healthier because now you can eat more and not get some of the negative effects. This is just a tough question really to ask because a lot of it is speculation. I mean, coming out of a contest is again, that's a no brainer. That's obvious. Speeding up metabolism through diet and exercise for the purpose of just speeding up metabolism. I mean, I guess you could go for it and see what happens. I have yet to see anybody speed up the metabolism to like ridiculous, like, oh my God, I have to eat 10,000 calories now to maintain my body. I've never seen that happen. I've just seen people go from crushingly low, you know, metabolic rates to something I would say this is where I get. So part of why I don't look like what I look like when I'm in contest mode, sure, I'm on more testosterone than I am right now, but I'm also consuming like 1500 more calories a day than what I am right now. And so and what happens, I naturally just dwindle down because I'm not feeding my body enough nutrients to hold this size of a frame. So it's actually, it's a lot of work for me to work up to that. I am the opposite. Like I actually don't want my metabolism to be any faster. I want it to slow down a bit so I could actually put some lean mass on. Do you think, do you think if you were to eat the way you did before, you would just gain a much more body fat? In other words, like you're eating less calories and so you're saying you're dwindling, but do you think if you bump them back up, rather than building all this more muscle, it would just get fat? If I went from point A to point B with no steps in the, you know what I'm saying, if I went from like, let's say right now, and I'm not tracking, so I'm not for sure. There's a total arbitrary number in it, but let's just say I'm around 3,000 calories right now, and when I get up to my contest physique, I'm closer to 5,000. So if I were to go from 3,000 to 5,000, like tomorrow and say, hey, I need to eat more, like, yeah, 100% I'm going to put on fat. But if I progressively added 250 to 500 calories while I'm increasing volume in my training and building lean body mass. You've got to have the stimulus for it. Yeah, exactly. You can't just bump up. Yeah, no, no, absolutely. You've got to have the stimulus for sure. And then, and to do it a slow gradual process. So I'm putting on more lean mass than I am fat mass. So then, but I will say that once I progress up there and say we get to 5,000 to maintain that 5,000 is work nutritionally, not just weight training. Weight training is a no brainer. I have to be putting that kind of volume in. But if I all of a sudden said, I just don't feel like eating that much. I'm going to draw. I mean, my weight will drop real quick, real, real quick. So I mean, there's there's pluses and minuses to that for sure. So I think it's to each their own. I would like to I would just like to see if you could take someone who's healthy, balanced, already working out and just through diet alone. No training, no training, without changing the workout, just keep the workout the same without changing the workout. If they could get their metabolic rate or how much they could they could increase their BMR just through slowly. Wow, yeah, that would be interesting. Because I do know many bulks and, you know, add muscle in a short period of time. So that could speed it up. But it'd be interesting to see. Oh, more macro questions. Bring it down. Next up is Frickie Jake. Don't be such a little bitch, dude. Tuna rows. Don't be such a little bitch about it. You need to start counting your fucking macros. I'm telling you, I'm not counting macros, dude. All right, boys, you can, you can have it. All right. This is from Frickie Jake after years of counting calories, how should one cut and bulk into it? Start with Justin. I love to bulk. That's what I like to do. Start with fucking then cut when I feel like I look at myself. Hey, let's calm down, you know, calm down. Let's move a little bit more. Let's keep things simple. Once you get a dick do, then you gotta, you know, dick do is. A dick do? Yeah. What's that? Dude, we've talked about this a million times. It's 500 range. You don't want to get past like, you know, God damn, like how many times do I have to say it? You know, it's like a little bit, you know, you go for like, what, three weeks is what you guys suggest, you know, for a period. I've, we've said this a million times. Yeah. But here's the thing. And this is why this question, these questions come up all time is because it's not fucking easy, bro. No, I know it is. It's not easy. They need to be coddled through it. Yeah. Well, it's not even just being coddled through it. It's just that there's so many variables for each person, right? Like there's so much that and there's and there's so many different strategies and ways you could do this. We could. We could talk a whole fucking show could be. I'm going to start a podcast on the side called macros. God damn, you should. And that's all we're going to do. You really should. And every once in a while, I'm going to bite you on there and make you listen for that. OK, so let's do that. It's a trick you to come on. Hey, bro, we're going to talk about vertical jump today. Son of a bitch. So and then it'll be like, suit, increase your vertical jump. What should you do with your macros in order to succeed? What kind of macro balance should I have for my vertical performance? So two things. One, a dick do is when your stomach sticks out more than your dick do. So that's what that's going to do. That's a good one. I like Fupa. So here's the thing. Fuck bumper. Here's what I do with the intuitive cut and bulk. When I'm cutting, when I'm doing like a mini cut, when I start to really notice performance decline, when I start to see my strength start to go down, that's when I know I need to kind of change gears. Unless I have a specific goal, like I need to get super shredded for something, then I'll deal with a little bit of strength loss. But if I'm just kind of going through this intuitive bulk and cut process, which is what I do normally, once I start to, when I bring my calories down, if I start to see like performance decline in the gym, like my squat goes down, my deadlift goes down, I'm not as strong. Then I know, OK, it's time to kind of reverse out of it a little bit. As far as bulking is concerned, when I see the performance boosts slow down or stop. So when I do a mini bulk, what I'll notice in the gym is I get stronger. But when that strength starts to halt, it's typically when I bring it back. What's interesting is some of the techniques you've been using lately with cholesterol, right? So I want to explain that. So this is very interesting, a little side topic with cholesterol is I'll do anywhere between 10 to 14 day period where I will dramatically increase my dietary cholesterol intake. And what a lot of people don't realize is cholesterol is the base molecule for all of your anabolic hormones. It's actually a steroid molecule. The term steroid, it talks about what a molecule looks like. And the cholesterol is an actual steroid. Not an anabolic steroid, but it is a steroid. And your body takes cholesterol and turns it into hormones like testosterone. And bumping your dietary cholesterol intake up, you will get a, typically you will get a short term boost. And I say short term because your liver does a very good job of regulating blood cholesterol. But you will see a short term boost in testosterone levels. You'll also see a boost in muscle recovery. People, this is also something interesting I learned not that long ago. When you lift weights in particular, blood cholesterol levels drop dramatically for a short period of time. And the theory behind that is that the body is bringing in all this cholesterol and using it for repair. And that's what cholesterol does. It's used to repair and strengthen cell membranes. And when you've damaged muscle through exercise, having more cholesterol in your blood has been shown to increase strength gains in muscle adaptation. So over a 10 to 14 day period, I'll take my normal cholesterol intake dietarily, which is usually, I don't know, around 500 or so. And I'll jack it up to 1500 to 2,000 or more milligrams a day through eating like organ meats, like chicken liver, or just eating a lot of egg yolks. And I'll get strength boosts from that. Which is funny because anybody who's been following bodybuilding for a long time knows that this was like the formula for old school bodybuilders. Bro, back in the day this was it. A dozen of eggs and liver and that was like staple foods. This is what they did. And I'm telling you, by the way, there are some, I got to be a little caveat here. There are polymorphisms that mean, in other words, there are people who genetically have issues with cholesterol. They're not gonna respond well with it. If they eat a lot of cholesterol, they're just gonna get fucking horrible lipid levels, blood lipid levels. Most people won't, okay? In fact, I know the FDA has changed their stance on dietary cholesterol and said it's no longer a nutrient concern. So for most people, you're okay. And if you're healthy and fit, you're fine. And again, you're doing it for a short period of time. But you'll see, just dramatically increase your dietary cholesterol. Don't even bump your calories. Keep everything the same and see what happens. Strength goes up. But yeah, with the cutting and bulking, I watched my performance in the gym and based on how my performance is changing, that's when I'll switch gears. Because you do burn body fat when you cut your calories, but at some point your body will start to adapt and slow its metabolism down by reducing muscle. And you do build muscle when you bump your calories. But again, your body adapts and will stop that process. And then you'll just gain body fat. And that's why cutting and bulking for long periods of time is not something we typically advocate. I think if you're somebody, first of all, you says after years of counting calories. So you've already been counting calories for years. And then how do you transition over to intuitive eating? If you've been tracking for years, which I think is everybody should at one point do, not necessarily for years, but track to where you have a good idea of what your calorie maintenance is, going back to what Justin said, the whole plus or minus three or 500 calories, depending on where bulking or cutting, you should kind of have a pretty good idea that I would think. So for example, like when I'm competing, I'm measuring out six meals in a day, right? So when I'm bulking, and then when I go to transition into cutting, all I simply do is cut a meal out. And then I might cut a second meal out. Or let's say each one of those meals has, you know, approximately 50 grams of carbohydrates in it. You know, two of those meals, I cut the carbs out, you know, or I replace them instead of having, you know, rice in that meal. I have, you know, brussel sprouts and asparagus, more of that. So I think that it's, if you're someone who's been counting for a really long time, you just subtly pull a little bit of those back, and best places in my opinion to take that would be carbohydrates, since you're probably hitting right where you need to be around proteins and hopefully fats or where they need to be. So I just play with either the whole meal or carbohydrates. And you start focusing more on food quality, right? Instead of like just the macro breakdown and the calories and all that. Let's start diving in more to what's benefiting your body and the health of your body. And you know, a lot of the reason why these questions come up so much is just people are just not, they're not in tune with their bodies really like, I'll hear people saying like, oh, I'm bulking right now and I'm really having to force feed myself. And it's like, you know, that's a signal. That's a signal of your body's telling you that you're disconnected from that. You probably shouldn't be eating that much. If you're force feeding yourself, and I understand if you have a particular goal, like I need to gain weight for something or lose weight for something. Well, they're always trying to increase it as far as like the speed of which, you know, the results happen. And so like you said, like they'll start pressing it even harder by response. Have you guys ever done this where you're bulking or cut? Let's just say bulk, let's use bulking because especially with you Adam, I know you and I have always dealt with trying to gain weight, right? Have you ever done a bulk and it's going well and all of a sudden it's like you don't want to fucking eat anymore. Like you're sick of eating so much food. Oh yeah. Like that's a clear signal that maybe it's time to reverse out of it. Like, you know, start to learn to read these signals that your body tells you and the answers are there. You know, like when should I stop cutting? Well, are you feeling like shit? Is your energy horrible? Are you getting dizzy? Is your performance dropping the gym? Are you starving past the point of normal hunger to where you're dreaming about eating strawberries? Cause that literally has happened to me where I've cut so long where I'm dreaming about eating a piece of fucking fruit. Like these are all signals that just pay attention to know ignore them. Cause if you just use the mirror, you tend to forget, you know, loose track of all these other signals that your body sends you. Next up is Johnny for the win. I'd like to hear how Adam suggests incorporating running since every time it's brought up Adam says it can't be done safely. Is this motherfucker calling me out like straight out me personally? Adam said. You know what, dude? He should run. He fucking hate you, Adam. I'll tell you why he says that cause it can come across that way. And I know exactly what you're saying cause I obviously hear you on the podcast every single time. But every time running's brought up, you always say how you- Cause I shit on it. I know. I shit on running all the time. Cause 90% of you that are running have no business running. I already said it again. Well, you know what? Let's talk about why. Yeah, let's talk about why. Because I've trained thousands of people, okay? And thousands of those people wanted to run too cause it burns the most amount of calories and all the shit that you see online tells you- The thing you can just get up and do. Yeah, it's the easiest- As much as they think. It's the easiest thing we can all do, right? To burn calories, it's the easiest thing you could do. Now, unfortunately, the easiest thing is not always the best thing for your body. Now, I'm not saying you can't run. Like if you wanna run, fucking run. But I'll tell you right now, everybody that's been the age of 25 or older has got imbalances. And most people suffer from lower cross syndrome. So they got all kinds of shit going on in the whole hip complex. And guess what? When you run, guess what's getting used the most. And if you have bad recruitment patterns and you're running, all you're gonna do is make that worse. So he says, he didn't want, I think there was more to that question, right? It was like, what are you- How would you do it? Yeah, he says, I don't wanna just hear that it's bad for you, give you answers. So here's what we've done for you guys, okay? So you obviously have heard me talk shit on the podcast about this, but then you probably haven't gone over to our YouTube channel because this is why we created the YouTube channel. Aren't we like literally right now dropping- Right now we are running a series right now with Dr. Shallow, Justin Shallow. And we brought him in to Jordan. Yeah, Jordan, what'd I say? He said Justin. Oh, something Justin brought, sorry. Sorry, Jordan. We did a series with Jordan on hip health. And these type of movements are some of the movements that you should be doing. So if you're somebody who wants to run and you say, okay, well, what should I do then to make sure that I don't create any more bad habits or bad patterns, addressing your hip health is like for sure up there on the top. But then there's other stuff too, like we've talked about your foot and ankle. Like foot and ankle, so many people are so disconnected to their feet. And then you go put on these fucking boingy running shoes that spring you forward and shit that are like cast with springs in them. So you're not connected. So your ankle and your foot strength is terrible. So you're creating all kinds of bad recruitment patterns. So we did a whole series too around ankle mobility. So anytime you go to the Mind Pump TV YouTube channel, if you see the yellow maps in the bottom left-hand corner, that's our maps prime probe. So we also created a program. So if you want more structure and be more specific to your imbalances, it comes with a compass and a test. So you take it and then it's going to help point you in the direction of your imbalances and then you should address that. So we've got the answers. I've got the answers for you for free. And then I have the answers for you in a program if you want something specific. So I don't just talk shit about it and say, don't do it. Without providing information. Here's the thing, running is a skill. Just like walking is a skill, just like swimming is a skill, or like any other type of human movement. Now think to yourself this right now. How often do you run or how long have you been running for? If it's not something you've been doing since you were a child all the time, you have lost your ability to perform that skill well. And the vast majority of the clients that we get come to us and say, hey, I wanna start running. Or I used to run way back in the day or I've been running for the last year, but before that I never ran. And so they're trying to do something that they have no skill doing. Now imagine this, imagine if you never walked. Imagine if you never, never, never walk and now you're gonna get up and you'd be like, I'm gonna walk a mile every single day. Think of all the problems that you're gonna have with walking because you've never done it. All of the recruitment pattern issues that you're gonna develop. And this is why running is an issue. Now, if we just take a step back for a second and we look at the human body and the way it evolved, it did indeed evolve to walk and run. The human body is actually designed to be extremely efficient at long distance trekking. That's including slow running. Trekking is a better term. Anthropologists will tell you this all day long that slow running for long distances, the human body, if you look at the knee joint, the size of the knee joint, if you look at the narrow hips, you look at the size of the glutes, we look at our feet. Well, our ancestors' gait looked a lot different than ours do now. Dude, and there's cultures. There's entire cultures where people run from birth up and you see people in their 70s running long distances, very comfortably with no problems. There's a tribe in Mexico that does this. There's African tribes that do this where that's all that they do all the time, not all that they do, but they've been doing it for generations. And most of them were probably barefoot doing it. That's my point. My point is the human body definitely evolved that way, but we've lost that skill. I hate to break it too. We've lost that skill. You haven't done it. And I think that's why, I think we speak so passionately to that. It's not that, like, and I know it always offends somebody who likes to run, right? I know this always offends somebody who loves to run. Nobody likes to be told. The thing that you love to do is probably harming you the most. That just, but you know what? Like I keep it fucking real here. And I tell you right now that without even knowing who the person is that's asking this question, chances are you probably have all these imbalances, but just why we created programs. We spend so much time doing videos around this because we've trained so many people that come in and you'll see all these imbalances and you're like, oh my God, dude, we gotta. We need to address the imbalances. That's the biggest thing. And then reinforce the joints and like have the ability to overcome these forces and single leg hop. Like basically you're single leg jumping every time you run. And so it's like that kind of a force that's gonna go right up your body. And if you're not properly, like if you're not strong enough in the hips, if you haven't done all the work with your feet and your ankles to get strong in that movement and it's just gonna compile. And that's the concern is that, it's just one of these things that we just see the end of it as being detrimental. Well, that's an excellent point right there. When you said that it's like a single leg hop or a squat, like imagine somebody coming into the gym and they've never really performed a squat. And I say, hey, let's get under and do 300 pounds squatting today. What do you say? Like what am I gonna do to that person? Now that's a heavy load and a single rep but what you do to the body over a long run can be just as detrimental as that single rep of a heavy load on that person who can't squat correctly. If you can't run correctly or even walk correctly and you go for a one hour run, what do you think you're doing to your body? Actually, if I'm not mistaken, running is the number one cause of injuries for people working out. It's, look, if you treat it like a skill, you're gonna be okay. And what I mean by that is if you learn like little pieces of hair for it, take your time. And you know the whole barefoot, like running craze that started, the reason why it started was because scientists were going to some of these areas where people have been running for generations still, like today, a lot of these hunter gatherer societies and a lot of these societies where people run barefoot all the time and they were filming these people running and they were noticing that they were running a little bit different than the way runners do in more modern societies. And what they found was human beings when they run barefoot or naturally or they've been doing it for a long period of time or for most of their lives, they strike the floor with their forefoot first just before the heel. In fact, if you look at the anatomy of the foot and the ankle, it's meant to be a massive shock absorber. Now, if you run here in America or any other modern society and you put on running shoes, the shoes are literally designed for you to hit heel first. So you're taking out this massive natural shock absorber which is the foot and the ankle and you're trying to replace it with technology that's in the shoe with this spongy whatever heel in the shoe. And it actually does a shitty job. Number one, it changes your gait but it also doesn't absorb the shock nearly as well as your foot as a well-developed, connected foot. Yeah, you'll see a real high heel to accommodate for that. That's right. Which just trains you to use your heel. That's right. So treat it like a skill. Like if you wanna run as part of your routine, here's what you do. I wanna give you some takeaways. Identify some of your imbalances. We have some tools, Adam went over them. We have some tools that you can look at to help identify some of those. So identify some of them. Strengthen those imbalances and start running in very small, slow increments. Take your time, like perfect each step of it. Like if you never run and you're running- The same way you would treat learning a squat. Yeah, if you're in relatively good shape and you wanna start running, start with the block and perfect that. Perfect running the block. Just do that, just get really good at it. Watch your form, write your strike, learn how to do it, get really good at it. And then you wanna add a little more, add half that distance each time. And over time, you may enjoy running over long periods of time. There's a good book for this. I can't fucking think of the name right now. It's driving me crazy. Born to Run. Is it Born to Run? Maybe. I don't know, I'll look in the, maybe I can get it in the show notes. If not, we can talk. Johnny, I wanna apologize. I know I come like I'm coming at you right now. It's like, there's something I'm passionate about and I'll tell you a little backstory on why is, I used to run these boot camps all over the Bay Area and at one point I grew into where I had trainers underneath me and I had a trainer who used to be an ultra marathon runner, which I think is an awesome cool sport. If you could do it and you love to do it, that's awesome. But he used to tell, he started to get all my camp, but people that went to my camps to getting into running more and more and more and he was pushing them to run and he would take them on these races. And for him, he looked at it as a calorie thing. So these people would never burn this many calories if I was not getting them into this and they're in the best shape of their lives because they've lost all this weight. And I used to get so angry at him because I said, listen, you don't understand how much harm you're doing to them because most of our campers are between 45 and 65 years old and most of them can't even squat down to 90 degrees. They have so many imbalances going on in their body and then you're taking them out on a track or a course and running them for a half hour. Like you're killing me right now. Like you're totally everything of the little bit of work I'm doing with them to help and fix. You go right out and you fuck it all up by running them for an hour because you want to help them lose five or 10 pounds. And that's just it. If people that are so focused on running to help burn calories. Yes. It's the equivalent to me of like wearing a sweatsuit. You know, like you wear a bunch of heavy clothes and you want to, you want to sweat out of your workouts. Like, fuck yeah, I just sweat. Like running is obviously it's something you could do to burn calories but what good is that really doing in your body? Unless it's something, you know, this is something like I really love to do and I get a high from it, you know and you get that runner's high and you seek that and it's like, man, it's addictive and that's great and it can be a great workout but do your due diligence and get in the gym and work on prepping your joints and addressing imbalances and strengthening your hips with squats and do your deadlifts and do all these things to benefit your running. Well, I have a question for you guys. What's the longest distance you've ever run in your life for yourself? Like in one shot. In one shot? Yeah. Have you guys ever done it? Have you guys ever trained? Like, I know you guys have played sports a few miles. Yeah. I've done a couple of 10Ks. 10Ks. That's probably the longest I've done. I did, the longest, I did 13 miles. I did a half marathon. This is when I was doing Jiu Jitsu. I actually ran, I would ran between five to 10 miles a week when I was doing Jiu Jitsu and I was in a sprint. It was just a, it was just a cruise and something very interesting happened after doing this for about a year. I actually started to enjoy it. I hated it for a year. Couldn't fucking stand it but I did it because I'm tenacious and I wanted more endurance for the sport of Jiu Jitsu. Little did I know there wasn't that much carryover but that's a different, you know, that's a whole different episode. But I did notice after about a year of doing it and getting good at it that it does put you in this kind of zone state where you're, and I could see how it's addictive to some people. And I could see how if my goals were different, how I could, I would have stuck with it. Like when I got really kind of good at it with my cardiovascular endurance, it was like I got into this zone where everything else would disappear almost like the flow state, you know, that where I experienced it, almost like the flow state. And I know that's addictive to people and I know people seek that out. I've had clients who've told me, hey, I used to run back in the day and I just love that feeling and I want that feeling again. And I can relate to that because I've experienced that through running but I want people to understand that you can get that feeling with walking. You can, I promise you. Go hike. Or elliptical or swimming in a pool. Well, just go hike somewhere in nature. If you're gonna be outside, go outside. Walking and hiking is a skill that most of us, it's easier for us to learn because we still walk nowadays. We haven't really, we haven't fully involved to the point where we're floating around on machines. We're pretty shitty at that. But I mean, at least be honest. But we're better at walking than we are running. And sit down less. Yeah, I mean, that neat principle, right? Let's just move constantly throughout the day. But you can get that feeling with a good outdoor hike, you can. And I've gotten that similar feeling. You know what? I don't even know if I like though that you're giving advice on how to feed the part that you're addicted to. Like that's really what, and that's where I'm not that way. Like I'm not gonna change my message to help serve you and your fucking addiction you have to running. Like no, I'm gonna tell you, I'm gonna keep, now if you're gonna keep doing it, then by all means do it. Like if you wanna punish your body, you wanna be fucked up 10, 15 years. I'm not gonna stop you, but I'm sure a shit gonna inform you. But and I'm also not gonna sit here and tell you like, hey, if you're chasing that runner's high, here's other ways to get high. Like that just sounds, no, no. I think getting in the, no, I think you've taught, we've talked about getting into the flow state. And it's something that humans, flow state and runner's high are totally different. I don't think so. No, it's not. I think it's the, I think if you look at it. Come on, read the book then. I think if you look at the mind and you look at it and how it's operating when you're in that state, when you're in the moment, when you're in the zone, it's very, very, very similar. I would argue that all day long. In fact, what we should do and what we've done with the episodes, we'll look it up and see if they're the same. And then we can see who won. Next question. All right. That was awful. The next question is from Luke Moore Five. What is your opinion on people who quit their steroid cycle and claim to be natural? This guy thinks that once someone takes steroids, they can't be natural. You know, this is interesting. A lot of fucking gray or fine lines or gray areas for sure. You know, I thought about this. Does it fundamentally alter you after? That's a good question because I used to think no. I used to think once you're off, your body adapts to being off and whatever muscle you had when you were on steroids is gone because the whole reason why you had that extra muscle was because you had all these high levels of androgens in your system. But then I thought about muscle memory and how muscle memory works, which there's lots of science supporting muscle memory and how when you build muscle, you increase the number of satellite cells, for example, in muscle, and when the muscle shrinks, the satellite cells don't disappear. So being able to build those muscles back up the second time around happens much faster. Do you guys think that that might be applicable? Like if I did steroids, and I don't mean in a short term, but let's say I took steroids consistently for 10 years, and then I went off and became natural, and let's just say, for example, my natural hormones came back and everything, do you think I would have an advantage over someone who was, you know, from that standpoint, because I think there's other disadvantages, but do you think that I would be an advantage? Well, so let's look at it in terms of like the sexes, right? If you introduced that with a female, it would change, you know, it would change. Like she would fundamentally change. Yeah. So I don't know how like if, you know, obviously I can't really voice too much on this, but like, you know, I would think that there would be some sort of effect, you know, that you would respond and your muscles would respond a certain way after being introduced to that, but obviously pure speculation, I have no idea. I think that the question is, what is your opinion who quit, they could quit their steroids cycle and then claim to be natural. I think if they quit their steroid cycle, in the case, so in the competing world, you can compete in a natural show after five years of being off your steroid cycle. They do have the lifetime natural ones though too, right? No. They don't have any that say you have to quit. The lifetime natural ones are just five years, yeah. Five years and you take a lie detector test and then you also have to do a piss test. So you can compete in an all natural show if you're somebody who's taken testosterone in the past. Now in my opinion, and being somebody who's been on and off steroids since I was in my early 20s, when I'm off, I'm off and I feel fucking below natural. So I think that somebody who's been off for quite some time to claim their natural, to use that as a marketing tool, you know, whatever. I'm not a hater on that. Like I don't really like, I don't think that's a big deal. I think you're splitting hairs on, you know, how much of an advantage, sure they probably have a little bit of advantage. I think that because I've ran it, because I've been up as big as 235 pounds, I think the ability to get me there or get close to that naturally, I have an advantage compared to if I was always 100% natural, but the advantage is very minimal. Like if I decided to never to take testosterone again and then I was gonna say, let's see if I can get my physique to look like I look like when I competed as a pro, I'm gonna have a pretty hard time doing that. It's just because I did it before does not mean like all of a sudden I can get there again. So guys, it's a tough one for me because like, there's a couple of things, right? I just talked about muscle memory. And so I think I wonder if you've been on antibiotics for a long period of time, if it affects that, and now you're gonna have a higher set point. And then the other one that I'm thinking too is muscle fiber hyperplasia, which so when you grow muscle, when muscles build, muscle fibers themselves become thicker. And it used to be believed that muscle fiber hyperplasia where you actually create new muscle fibers didn't happen in humans. They used to think that, you were born with your set number of muscle fibers or at least that you've got new muscle fibers going through puberty and then that was it. You didn't add anymore in your adulthood. But now there's lots of evidence suggesting, and we've witnessed this in animal studies, that hyperplasia happens where through consistent resistance training, for example, over years and years and years that not only do you grow the muscle fibers themselves, but you increase the number of muscle fibers. And if you stop exercising, muscle fibers lose size, but you don't lose the new muscle fibers. Your body doesn't adapt in that direction. And that's what I meant by it'd be easier for me because I have to get towards that. But it's, let me tell you, it's not easy at all. You know, it's easier than someone who never has. Well, I would think the psychology too, you know, like going off and then recreate that. Yeah, actually that's a great point. There's probably, it's- There's a lot of take away, there's a lot of negatives. Yeah, because I tell you what, there's nothing more demoralizing than when I'm training and I don't have any testosterone on me. And I've been, I've had tons of testosterone on me and that feeling of, man, I'm like half the, you feel like half the man because you're no where near as strong as what you were when you were taking the testosterone. So there's a lot of psychological stuff going on. Here's the thing. If, I think people that ask questions like this are interested because do you want, are you asking because you want to know should I take this person seriously? And are they reputable? Like should I get information from? If somebody is using purely the way they look or how they got in shape as a source of, like as a good source of information, that should already be your red flag. Like, I mean, that's just because you get in great shape. Yeah, if someone's like, hey, I won first place at the, you know, Contra Costa, whatever show, hire me as your coach. Trained like me. It shows that he or she has figured out what has worked for them in their body to get themself in great shape. And there's a lot of ways to get there. And just because someone got there doesn't necessarily mean that they got there the healthiest way, the best way, or a way that would work for you. So you just got to take that into consideration when you're looking at someone like this. As far as like, you know, how I feel about someone who claims, I don't really give a fuck. Like if someone wants to lie and say, like we've had people that we know that claim to be natural. They're not natural whatsoever. I don't hate on them. It's also, it's also. I feel like if people are naive enough to fall for their bullshit and stuff like that, then more power too. Yeah, but it's also hard like to tell. I mean, you can sometimes clearly tell when someone's not natural, obviously. And then sometimes you can't. Well, and that's such a great point. This is why I don't even like to discuss this very much because I've been wrong enough times on both sides. There's been, there's been plenty of people that I thought for sure on steroids and then I find out that they are completely natural. And I'm like, whoa, this dude has got fucking incredible genetics. And then there's been other times I was like, thought for sure the guy was natural because he said he was this and that and then something comes out and we find out he's not. I'm like, oh shit, okay. So there's plenty of times where I'm wrong. There's genetics number one. Nothing will beat genes. I used to have a trainer that worked for me who for sure I thought this guy's on some shit. Now, no joke. He was 20, young kid. He would do skull crushers with the barbell and two 45s on each side. So 225 pound skull crushers. This dude was just, yeah, he wasn't massive but he was definitely muscle and stuff. Some people were just mutants, they're outliers. Fucking mutants. And you know why I knew he was natural? The dude was broke as fuck. He couldn't afford steroids. He couldn't afford anything. And he was also completely ignorant to it. So he would ask me questions about steroids and stuff like, he didn't know any of this shit and I couldn't believe it. And it was because the guy was a genetic mutant. I mean, his older brother was like a collegiate football player and he was just, I mean, it's one of those things it's a lot of times it's impossible to tell. I think this is why people will say lifetime natural because I think it somehow holds more weight than having taken steroids or not. I'll tell you this much. People who take antibiotics for long periods of time especially those that start their weightlifting or muscle building career that way. There's probably, I think more negatives and positives. I think that they number one don't know their bodies very well. They don't know what really works for their body real well because when they lift weights they're super anabolic from all these hormones. So they're programming shit. Their diet tends to be shit. Then they try to go natural and they can't build any muscle and they blame it on the steroids when in fact it's because their programming diet was based on them being on a shit ton of steroids. Honestly, I have no problem. Like this question kind of highlights the fact. What was I gonna say? Oh yeah. As far as like, if people actually claim that they're natural and they've had a cycle before or whatever, if they can actually articulate that and their journey with that and the process of it and they're not trying to hide all this stuff. I just feel like these days you have to be honest and it's gonna carry you so much further and people will respond that they've tried a cycle before and they're like, who gives a shit? It's just like, it's the trying to hide it and trying to mask all this stuff and then like, oh, but it's really this supplement that's doing it for me. Bullshit, let's all just like have a real conversation. Well, transparency is king right now, 100%. A lot of people who've been on cycles for long periods of time and then try to go natural, they can't. Yeah. I know more people than, I know more. So I know a lot of people who've taken antibiotics for long periods of time because I've worked in gyms for most of my life and most of them who went natural had to go on hormone replacement therapy. Now there's some of them who didn't who were able to get normal testosterone levels back but most of them didn't, most of them now. No, I'm an example of that. I mean, if I take less, so right now, like, so where my physique is at, this is where I was at when I was fat and I first started my journey because I've been on replacement therapy since I was 30 and every two weeks I take 150 milligrams of testosterone. That like, if I don't, like I don't wanna have sex, dude, I'm fucking 35 years old. I don't wanna be like that. Testosterone is my blood was, or my blood work was under 200, dude, like I was in the floor. So, you know, and that's because of all the shit that I fucked around with when I was younger, not knowing any better. And which is also why I think we talk, I mean, I speak so passionately also about this topic is just that, man, I'm not good, I'll be the last person to tell someone you can't take it or don't take it. Like if you wanna take it, take it, but here's the deal. The best thing you could possibly do is to just first get yourself in the best shape of your life all natural. Like show yourself that you can take your body to the leanest. And even have the discipline to do that. Yeah, because exactly, like it's a high performance thing, right? If you're somebody who's been natural your entire life, you decide to take something like testosterone is to do that. And then as far as other people doing it, like I would not worry about it. If you're listening to our show, you're probably getting most of your good information from us anyways. If you like, I still watch all these guys, like I would be lying if I didn't say, I still watch fucking Jeremy Buendia fucking get pumps and work out like, dude, he looks cool. He looks cool when he does those bicep curls and those crazy squats. Like, you know, if you get hyped up before you go work. Yeah, those crazy Smith machines. Yeah, dude, those get me hyped up and motivated, bro. So if you, I mean, follow those people for those reasons or enjoy it for those reasons. Like if you think they're lying about taking steroids or not taking steroids and who gives a fuck about the information they're giving, watch their fucking cool videos and move along, like get your information from mine pump. That's why I work here, because we don't look cool. None of us are good looking. And that's keeping it real. You're right. None of us are good looking. None of us are, I'm not fucking, I'm not. You used to be. Yeah, you're right. Come on, calm down. You don't come to mine pump for those reasons. So, you know, watch the guys hopped up on steroids, doing very cool exercises and videos to get hyped up before you work out. As soon as he starts talking about fucking fitness, knowledge, tune him out and tune in and stuff, you know you can fucking rely on. That's it, bottom line. It's fun to look at, not cool to listen to. You wanna lift heavy, bro, yeah. Hey listen, if you like mine pump, leave us a five star rating review on iTunes. Also, check us out on YouTube. We actually have, right now as I'm speaking, are posting a hip sequence. So, it's videos on how to strengthen your hips and balance them out. We talked about running and the hips are very heavily involved in running. Go tune in and check them out. We post a new video every single day. Also, if you want us to answer one of your questions on these episodes, the place to do it is on Instagram. You go to Mind Pump Media, post your question underneath the ask us a question meme and if we like your question, we will answer it live on our show. You can also find our personal- Hashtag quack. You can also find our personal pages on Instagram. Mine's at Mind Pump Sal, Adam's at Mind Pump Adam and Justin's at Mind Pump Justin. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at MindPumpMedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes Maps Anabolic, Maps Performance and Maps Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. 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