 and welcome back to Latin American Directions. My name is Nicholas Susman, and we're here again to discuss the most pressing and current issues in Latin America. Following this short series we're having on the Colombian elections today, we have Maria Juliana Guerrero. Maria Juliana is a feminist political scientist and lawyer from Universidad de los Andes in Colombia with experience in international human rights law, international refugee law, transitional justice, and sexual and reproductive justice. Currently, she interns for the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights, specifically for the rapper True Ship on Memory, Truth, and Justice, and she's the former co-editor of the Student Magazine Based Global, specialized in popular protests and democracy. Maria Juliana, welcome to Latin American Directions. It's great to have you with us. Thank you, Nicholas. It's a pleasure to meet you, and it's a pleasure to be here. Amazing. So Maria Juliana, let's start with this question. We were saying last time, discussing this, that this is a unique election for us. Personally, I didn't think I was going to see a left government in my life considering the history of Colombia being such a conservative country. So I just want to have your thoughts on this. What do you think? What does this mean from the feminist perspective? What was the role of women in this election as well? So as you said, I couldn't believe it myself when Petro and Francia Marquez won the presidency in Colombia considering our context. And as a woman and as a feminist, I was extremely excited. I became very excited considering that Petro and Francia Marquez, who is going to be his vice president, they are positioning women as part of their political core program. So in that sense, women are going to be more included in the government, and they're going to be taken more into account regarding public policy. So for instance, when we talk about Colombian women, we'll have the population of Colombia are actually women. And there is a situation that's going on right now with Colombian women. And one of those is that out of those 23 million women, 12 of those are single mothers. They're single mothers head of households. And that puts a lot of economic and social burden on these women. And so what this government is trying is going to, and I am very confident that they're going to do their best in working with these women, is in giving them economic and social opportunities for them to progress and for their children to be able to progress. The situation with this woman is one of the things that is keeping Colombian women in a disadvantage in comparison to Colombian men. So the centrality of this policy of focusing on this woman is going to be great. In another aspect, this government is going to focus a lot on actually fulfilling and completing and implementing the Colombian peace agreement with the FARC that happened in 2016. So so far in the government, we've the implementation of the peace accord hasn't been that great, and if we put it in a balance. But putting the peace agreement and the peace accord in a centrality of the government and what it's going to prioritize, it is also going to help women, especially marginalized communities in Colombia. So it's a very exciting time. That's great. Making a bit of a comparison with Chile, who was a country that was in a similar situation earlier this year and last year. Some analysts said that the victory of Gabriel Boric is owed to the importance he gave to women in his campaign and that the votes of the women brought him to the presidential office. Do you think this is the same case with Petro? And that is what made a difference in comparison to other times he ran for office? Or what is your assessment? I think there's two things that help Petro gather the vote of women. For starters, the young population in Colombia, young voters, they started to register. So young people between the ages of 18 and 25 started to register to vote in Colombia in order to vote for Petro. And a lot of those young people are actually women. And young women in Colombia have a very particular agenda with the feminist movement. And so Petro aligned with these young leaders and these young feminists. And in bringing them in and considering them, pushed other young voters in Colombia to get on that horse with Petro and Wolfram. And the second thing, and I think one of the most important ones is not actually Petro, it's Francia Marquez. So Francia Marquez, as I said, she's going to be the vice president of Colombia. And she is the first black vice president of Colombia. And she is the vice president of Colombia as well. And this is huge for our country. Francia Marquez is, she was a victim of the armed conflict. She had to work as a housekeeper for many years to sustain her two kids. And she became an environmental and feminist activist in Calca, which is the department where she's from. And she has a lot of influence in the eco-feminist and movement in Colombia. So when Francia Marquez got on board with Petro, that's what drove the push, not only in young women in the cities, but also women in the marginalized departments of Colombia. Seeing Francia Marquez in a position in where she would be able to represent them and their interests is what got a lot of young women on board, because Francia Marquez has focused a lot of her work, a lot of her activism on relieving gender inequality and focusing on the violence that is exercised on women in rural Colombia. So I think more than Petro, I think it's Francia Marquez who's had a lot of influence in this. And it's kind of ironic because at first, a lot of people weren't taking Francia Marquez seriously enough. And when he nominated her for VP, people were saying, oh, she's not going to sum up any more votes than he already has. And that proved to be false in the sense of women voting and in the sense of Afro-Columbia communities voting as well. Right. Right. And I cannot avoid this question, which I understand it could be a bit uncomfortable, but I think it's very important for the audience to maybe have your point of view from feminist perspective, and it's the point of representativity and actually being represented in government. So it's true that Francia is the first Black woman, but she's the second woman vice president. So maybe from the lens of representation, I don't know if you could draw a bit of a parallel of what that means and compare a bit the figure of the current vice president, Marta Lucia Ramirez, with Francia Marquez in terms of representation to draw that difference. I think it's a very interesting discussion to have and to illustrate maybe comparing this to figures. Yes. So in my opinion, and what we've able to see in trends is that not necessarily women in power means that a feminist gender is going to be in place. And that has been proven in two cases in Colombia. The first case with our vice president right now, she is Marta Lucia Ramirez. She is a Colombian politician. She's been in politics for a very long time. She's a conservative woman. And so her agenda has not been necessarily a feminist agenda. And so the topics that Marta Lucia has prioritized don't necessarily mean that they have been the best for women, especially for women in marginalized communities in Colombia. There is also a thing that must be said in Colombia about how things are in Colombia is that class is very important and very involved in our politics. And Marta Lucia comes from a political and economic elite that has proven to work for that elite and not necessarily for other classes and lower classes in marginalized communities in Colombia. So I think in parallel, it's the difference not only that one is a feminist and one is not. It's also about class. And it's also about how, as I said, Francia Marquez in her activism has prioritized things that are affecting women in rural and marginalized Colombia. Right, right. That's very important. And I also, oh, sorry. Yeah, go ahead. Sorry, please go ahead. The second example in saying and in stating how having women empowered does not necessarily mean that there is going to be a feminist agenda is what ironically happened with our constitutional court a couple of months ago when the decriminalization of abortion happened in Colombia. So we were very happy that our constitutional court, in terms of the gender gap, well, there's more women who are justices right now than men in our constitutional court. But ironically, it was the men who actually voted to decriminalize abortion in the constitutional court. So as I said, women in power does not necessarily mean advocating for a feminist agenda. But in this government, when I'm saying they're prioritizing women, they're also prioritizing a feminist agenda. Right, that's very important. And now I think we have to address the elephant in the room. And it's actually complaints of sexism against Petro and surrounding cycle. How do you see that regarding, well, there's new appointments. And if you think they're going to be addressed or if they're just trying to tokenize Francia, how do you see those complaints and how do you see the new government addressing those complaints? Just to give an example for the audience, one of the closest persons to Petro is a former city council member called Holman Morris. And he had very serious complaints of domestic violence. He's also surrounded by some academics who have complaints of harassment, serious complaints and investigations of harassment. And according to some circles close to Petro, he hasn't addressed them directly nor condemned them directly. And it's like the huge elephant in the room for feminist supporters of Petro. And the reason why early in the campaign also many feminist, well, important figures withdrew from supporting the campaign at the beginning. What are your thoughts on that? So for starters, I think for you, for me, and for, well, everyone in Colombia, Petro is not necessarily a savior. We're not in a political moment where we're trying to find our savior. Petro is not anti-establishment. He is part of the establishment. He's left wing, yes, but he's been surrounded and he's surrounded by people who have been in the political elite of Colombia for decades. And that has unfortunately come with a lot of things. For instance, Petro being surrounded, not only by hominemories, but other people who have doubtful connections and sort of things. What I would say and what I think is part of Petro winning Petro winning has to be bargaining and having concessions with the establishment, right? And that means that he's not completely on the loose on what he wants to do. He has to also respond to some of the Colombian elites' interests. And that being said, I think he is going to keep himself surrounded by some people who might not advocate for a feminist agenda and who have had several problems in their personal lives. And in that sense, I would say that he's with his hands tied and I honestly don't think they're going to leave. Does that mean that as feminist and our political agenda is going to be removed from his government? I don't believe so, not at all. I just think it's kind of a concession of we have to work with some people we do not like and it's part of how politics unfortunately is made in Colombia right now. It's like even if he's a left-wing candidate, he has to work with the elite and he has to work with the establishment if he wants to get things done. So I guess the answer is I really don't think he's going to do much about it right now, but I also don't think that means that he's going to remove or not focus on a feminist and a women agenda, not at all. Right, that's very interesting. Also part of what we're trying to unpack in this series are the myths and fears founded or unfounded of. Of the left of progressive governments, of a federal government, right? And I think part of the issues that the Colombian society or at least the significant part of it has demonstrated, it is afraid about is the whole issue about gender, gender education, feminist education and so on. And we could just crack it to something as evident as the 2016 vote for peace, right? Where this was one of the most successful, if we can call it like that, arguments from the opposers to the peace agreement regarding how all of this gender issues were going to be included in that. So I don't know if you can tell us a bit about what that feminist and gender agenda means in the federal government. And you can help us clarify the fears and myths that there are around it just to help us understand a bit, which I also think could relate to our audience in the US because this type of arguments are also being made with the laws about in Florida, for example, among other issues regarding gender and gender diversity and gender education. Well, that are very challenging and hard to grasp for conservative societies. So I think the progressive politicians and the progressive movement of Columbia has learned a lot from the 2016 referendum election and especially for veteran government. I think what he has learned is that it does not necessarily work in Columbia to have this populist discourse of being opposed and separating the other, right? Like they're wrong and we're right, that hasn't worked that well for us. That's actually created more polarization and more division among our country. And it's a division that has not been only been seen in Columbia, but it's a growing trend around many countries. And I think that what's most interesting about this government, this upcoming government, what they're thinking is they're trying to work with a lot of people who did not necessarily agree with in every ideals, right? So I think it's a way of this government trying to keep the tide down and keep a part of Colombian society calm and not having this pushback and not presenting this pushback over progressive policies because we have seen that that has happened in the US with the Biden administration. So I think they're being very smart about how they're going to portray this agenda. And if you put it in practice, it's, yeah, we're talking about a political agenda that's being more inclusive towards the LGBTQ plus community towards women, but it also means on the rhetoric and the way he raises it, right? And I think that's what's going to happen over the next four years where he's not going to try or not just him, but the government is not trying to impose or set out the rhetoric that they're imposing something over Colombian values or our ideals or ideas, but more of a, I'm not gonna say behind closed doors, but in a timid and more not so much as a pushback. And what that means is, for instance, for instance, the creation of the Ministry of Quality, right? It's gonna focus on women, it's gonna focus especially on marginalized women on eliminating the gender pay gap, on recognizing household work for women, which is very important in Colombia. But how the way they're selling it is in terms of decreasing inequality, right? They're not necessarily talking about or openly talking about how this means, what kind of policies would mean for other communities like the LGBTQ plus community or for feminists, they're not putting the rhetoric as, this is a feminist ministry, right? No, they're saying this is about equality. So I think that's what's going to happen the next four years and the rhetoric is going to be very helpful in that and they're not gonna try to impose or say that openly how they're concentrating on these topics is just kind of putting it in other words, as I would think. Right, right. I think that's interesting to the work but do not make a huge deal about it because otherwise you're open to misrepresentation of the facts, I would say it's the strategy maybe, right? Now, moving on from the rhetoric to the actions, Pedro has been president-elect for a couple of weeks already, we're starting to see appointments in his cabinet. My question is what's your assessment of those appointments from the gender feminist women equality perspective and also referring to this ministry of equality and the figure of Francia Marques, what do you think is gonna happen with her in the cabinet and so on? How are these pieces aligning for that equality and gender equality in the cabinet and in actions now that he has to make decisions? So for now, we've had three women elected for ministry cabinets, we have health, environment and agriculture. As of my understanding, these women are very prepared in their subjects and I think in a sort of way, he is placing this cabinet as in, oh, we're doing, I'm keeping 50% of women this cabinet and that would keep a lot of people happy. But as I said before, having women in power does not necessarily mean having a feminist agenda. From what I've seen of their trajectory, their career, especially for the environmental ministry, it's going to work very well. What I think right now is going to happen is depends on how the ministries work together and how long they get with Petro in general. And regarding Francia Marques, she is going to be the minister of the ministry of equality, she's going to be the first appointee and well, it was, it's her idea, she's focusing on things regarding women in inequality. So I think it would make sense for her to be put in that place. And especially considering that sometimes the vice president figure in Columbia has not been as important as maybe other positions, political positions. So I think Francia can actually have a very big role in this ministry and organizing what equality means in Columbia, especially because she's very familiarized with what's going on in marginalized departments in Columbia. Right, right. And Juliana just does a final message, final assessment. I'm asking you to tell the future a bit. Where do you think we will be in four years after this government in terms of feminist agenda, women equality, LGBTQ plus equality, and the whole, yeah, like gender-based agenda that is I think one of the important flags of this new government. So I'm very hopeful for the next four years, especially because as I said before, this government is going to focus a lot on implementing the peace agreement. And that is crucial for the women of this country. It's absolutely crucial. It represents less violence. Violence in armed conflicts is mostly, how they're done, they're mostly targeting civilians, but not every type of civilian. It's mostly women. Violence is being inflicted on women mostly. And so with implementing the peace agreements and with the possibility of advancing in peace talks with the other guerrilla we have, which is the ELN, I am very confident this will make lives for millions of Colombian women in the countryside better, right? Because it's less exposure to violence. It's more opportunities to be able to go to have opportunities in education, in the economy, more access to healthcare. And so I think in that sense, it's going to be very, it's going to be a very big advancement, I would consider. And in terms of other communities like the LGBTQ plus community, I also think it's going to be very, very good. When Petro was mayor of Bogota, the Colomb, they had this kind of agency in the mayor's office called Diversia 6Y, which is Sexual Diversity Office. And the things and the projects they had for the LGBTQ community in Bogota was amazing. And so I think it created a lot of opportunities for advocacy and also for education in Bogota. And I think they're going to be continuing the same line, not just, you know, and how it was done in Bogota, but more of a national level. So I think that's also very exciting. That's great. Well, Juliana, thank you so much. We think there's so much to unpack and undoubtedly in Colombia, in the US, everywhere in the world, women rights, LGBTQ plus rights are becoming increasingly more important, but also a place of contention for societies. So we remain to see how this enraps itself. Thank you so much. And to our viewers, we'll meet each other in two weeks again, discussing more issues in this short series or any other present matter that happens in our region. Thank you so much and see you in two weeks. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii. 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