 So this is a video from Joe Rogan, which is scientists say vaccines don't cause autism. Well, yeah, kick it off with, like, a very obvious statement to me, obviously, maybe not to everybody out there, but let's, let's see what, see what this scientist has to say. They sound like a very intelligent person. And we're alive. How are you, sir? How are you? Good to see you again. I'm thrilled to be here. Thanks for doing this, man. Thanks for having me. I know, I should tell people before we get started, I did not know when I asked you to come back on, you were heavily involved in this whole vaccine debate. What I wanted to have you on to talk about is tropical diseases, because I remember when we did that sci-fi show, you explained to me that some ungodly percentage of people that live in tropical climates are infected by parasites. That's right. Well, my day job is developing vaccines for tropical diseases. We developed a vaccine. Interesting fact about me, when I was at university, I specialized in parasitology and I studied mosquitoes in Thailand. It seems like someone very, very close to my field. No one else will make because they're for the world's poorest people. So we call them tropical diseases, but they really are diseases of poverty. The vaccine issue, the advocacy issue around vaccines and autism is kind of a new thing that I got drawn into just because I'm a parent of an adult daughter with autism and I make vaccine. So it was a natural that I'd get drawn into it. Yeah. So when I said that you were going to come on, then I got inundated by people that are, you know, the vaccine thing is such a polarizing issue. Yeah, it's awful. And so many people seem to think they absolutely know what causes what, especially when it comes to something like autism, which is a huge issue in this country, it's a huge issue around the world and it didn't use to seem to be. The question is, was that because it was undiagnosed? Was that because it just, it's more prevalent today? What do you think? What is your take on this? I don't think we really know. One thing's for sure, we're diagnosing. One thing for sure, it's not that vaccines have increased the amount of autism and it's not an epidemic. People with autism, who we diagnosed as something else in the past, you know, whether it was, you know, really horrible diagnosis, we'd use pejorative terms like mental retardation. What's the matter, Jamie? Just telling the clock was off. Oh, the guy who I down the podcastie, he was growing up when you. No, no, no, it's okay. He was just saying, he was just telling me that our clock is screwed up because of the daylight savings time. Right. Sorry. Totally unrelated to what you were talking about. The whole country's clock is screwed up because of the daylight savings. Yeah, right. So, so we don't know, we don't. Well, you know, one thing's clear, the number of diagnoses is going up, but part of that is because what we used to call pejorative things like mental retardation now get thrown into the autism category. The other thing they do, they've absolutely, you know, well, you know, now we call it as part of the autism spectrum. We also, because autism often has a lot of associated intellectual disabilities, not always, but sometimes the other most the time is that positive. Yeah, sure. Is that based on aptitude tests? Like how do you, how do they decide? How do they decide what's autism? Yes. They have a list of diagnostic category, but it's not based, it's not like you could test someone if they test positive for a disease. That's right. Well, it's, it's, it's difficult because anything that is psychologically tested based on traits and signs, it's always going to be less definitive than like a medical test. Like, sure, like there is, I think I've talked about this before, but usually when people come up with a di diagnosis, they have to run it through tests to make sure that diagnosticians, people actually practice within the field can actually diagnose the thing. Most of the time, if they can't, it's not, it's not really considered. Things like depression, I think it's something like 60%. So it's less than you would think in terms of like accurately diagnosing something. Um, so it's always good to keep that in mind with things. It's kind of because it's based on traits and outward things. Everyone has their own experiences. Everyone has their own levels of knowledge about certain things. Everyone has their own personality, particular traits about themselves. Um, you know, there's a lot of, there's a lot of gray area, especially within like the psychology field. Um, and, and some, some diagnosis is like, um, dissociative identity disorder. Um, some people refer it to, to it wrongly as multiple personalities. Um, it actually has a higher success rate in being diagnosed than depression. Which is really weird. I don't, I should really look into that with autism. I imagine it's fairly, fairly solid, uh, with men, maybe not so much with women, people from different racial backgrounds as well. I've heard about some difficulty with that. Sure. Well, as although it, you know, one of the interesting side pieces to this is, you know, the, there's a group of in people out there who self identify themselves as the autistics and they get very resentful or hurt when they're called a disease or disorder. The, and because they say, well, we're not an epidemic. We're, we're a person and they said it's part of this whole neuro diversity movement, which is quite interesting neuro diversity movement. Right. They say they're neuro diverse that they, you know, maybe think differently from others and they respond differently than others, but they're not quote abnormal. And, and I think they have a good argument. Hmm. I would, I would test that call and I am definitely abnormal on it is a good thing. I like that. The argument wants someone that was, so the, so the point is that it's, you know, the, the impairment, like Rachel, my daughter, it's not so much her autism that, uh, uh, towards her, you know, ability to have partners or to, uh, have a meaningful career. It's the fact that she has profound in her case, profound intellectual disability that goes along with it. Um, I forgot what I was going to say. So this guy's actually speaking quite good facts around this, to be honest. Props to him, Peter, Peter Hottas, although I've seen in the chats that Jack said, uh, Rogan tried getting him back on this past year. He's been running scared since expers his bad information on COVID shots. Interesting. Well, I think this is more, should be more related to, I mean, vaccines is such a wide catchment. Particularly the, the, the, the issue was in the, in the, the start of it, but guy called Andrew wait, I think Andrew Wakefield. Um, sometimes not good with the last names, but, um, he was actually rejected from the scientific, ejected from the scientific community because the research was unfounded and it had such a massive impact, especially on the American population about vaccines, particularly the MMR vaccine, measles, mumps and rubella. Very important vaccine, um, which prevents against a lot of really, really fatal, dangerous conditions, diseases that you can catch. So really important to have like a super high herd immunity, as we call it in the scientific field, the, the minimum to like stop it from having an outbreak. Um, and that, that, that's, that's, that's where this whole like autism and vaccine thing comes from. Um, and it's just been propagated and propagated and talked about, um, and talked about in so many different settings and places. Um, so, and like, not everybody has access to the information about like where it actually came from. It's a very harmful thing. When, when they say that people have a, there's a spectrum, right? And some people who are autistic have incredible abilities, natural, incredible mathematical abilities, musical abilities, language abilities. Not naturally mean to herd immunity, like natural, natural immunity would be getting the disease and then surviving, which is not ideal. So then the other people would die. And then some people do not. And some people have legitimate issues. Yeah. With Rachel's case, my daughter, it's, um, she has a pretty good verbal IQ, 80, 90, but she has a very low performance IQ and 40. She can't do simple math. She can't count money. Uh, fortunately, goodwill industries came to her rescue and our rescue. And now she works there two hours a day, sorting clothes. And that's been really meaningful for her to get a paycheck. Oh, that's great. Even if it was something, yeah. Right. Just to do something and feel, right. Yeah, that's, and feel part. Employment's really important for life outcome. I think people live on average, like quite a fair bit longer if they have a job, something to think about considering like the low employment statistics for autistic people, which is like sitting around 20, 22% for any type of employment, not just full time. Any type of employment is mad. It's crazy. The mix. Yeah, that's huge. That's huge for everyone, right? Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Um, but, so there's no, uh, there's, it's not like you could test positive or you can test positive for the flu. Right. I tell anybody, you know, as I say, you know, so that's why I don't like using those, those terms because it, it puts people on the autism spectrum as though they have a disease or a disorder, which I don't like to do. But well, it's, it's the issue with it is because it is in my view and it's not a view that's shared with every single autistic person. Um, me being autistic is me. You know, if I wasn't autistic, I would not be me. I would just be a different person completely. Um, I would have a different life. I'd have different interests. I've had different, everything really. I'd be a completely different person. And so when people say that autism is a disease, it's, it hits quite hard because it is quite central to who I am. And that is something that is self-imposed. And like, I definitely try not to react negatively to stuff like this because I do understand people's views on it and why people say stuff like that. It's just one of the things. And then you can find other autistic people who very much like to separate autism out from themselves. Um, I think usually I find, obviously speaking from a very biased perspective, because my opinion is that it's not a disease. And it is quite tied to who someone is. Um, that most, most people who have that approach to things in my experience, they seem to very much look at the things that they struggle with, see them as autism and the rest of themselves, not autism. If you know, I mean, it's kind of boxed it, boxing off parts of who they are and the things that they struggle with and labeling it as autism, not taking into account all of the other things that is autistic that they do, which they are fine with. You know, so it's kind of, it's kind of segmenting and it's understandable because for a lot of my life, I felt the same way. It's, it's, it's good to have something to, to blame sometimes. Um, it makes you feel better, especially if you're struggling. Um, so I definitely understand that. It is a disorder, no? Well, you know, now we know there are 99 genes that are linked to autism. Well, why is it a bad thing to say that you have a disorder? If it's just a disorder, you know, people have disorders, it's a fact. Well, you know, a lot of the individuals in that, uh, that self-identify themselves as the autistics don't like to think of themselves as a disorder. Yeah. It's different, it's different, but not necessarily as a disorder. Right. But that doesn't help us when we're trying to discuss it, does it? Yeah. It gets very, it's hard, it gets hard to talk about. Well, it also, it's not difficult to talk about. Um, because it's only difficult to talk about if you have the frame of it being a negative thing. That's the, that's the only time that this conversation would be difficult. It might be difficult, um, if the terminology is not, again, and you are talking to someone who becomes very enraged by the terminology that you use. Um, but it's not, it's not, it doesn't muddy the waters. Like just talk about the, the issue, the struggles that autistic people have. Yeah. I mean, Elon Musk, yeah, having that Dubon on life. Oh my God. I'm going to stop you from talking about it in a certain fashion, which is actually accurate, right? When they have an issue, there is an issue. To say there's no issue is kind of ridiculous. It's, I mean, there's a reason why so many people are so concerned about autism and vaccine. Yeah. They're so concerned about autism because, oh man, it just, I understand. Like he doesn't have the, the awareness of it, which it's understandable. The position that he's taking on this, but, you know, it's not necessarily that we're born autistic and all of the problems that we have are just because we're autistic. A lot of it is because people don't understand us. People don't give us adjustments. People discriminate against us. We have lots of negative life experiences when we're younger throughout life in pretty much every single circumstance. I understand that it might come across as like being like, oh, with the victims and stuff, but it's true. Just look at the mental health statistics. Look at the experiences that autistic people have, search autism and any bad thing that happens to people, you know, need to eat something for the past two weeks, my emotions on a rollercoaster. I need some food, physically go eat. Yes, it's nice to have you on Joe. I'm sorry that you're feeling this way at the moment and it's it's been it's been nice to have you on now. It's been very good. Thomas, I respect you. Sorry for insulting. No, you don't insult me. Where did you insult me? I do. I really don't get offended or upset about stuff like I might get visually like any because I'm trying to react to things with my genuine thoughts and exaggerating for performative, not performative exaggerating to make my emotions seem or my thoughts and feelings about stuff seem clearer. But I understand it like this, you know, the what he's talking about. I get it like from that perspective, it's it's, you know, medically like if you don't really know much about it, it's it's well founded to have that kind of opinion. Like I'd feel the same in a lot of other situations. You know, how do I talk about things that I don't know about? I don't want to say anything that's wrong, you know, I feel the same. So I get that experience. Means and just autism in general, whether it's an environmental pollution factor, whatever they like to do is they like to make the distinction between autism, that neurodiversity thing and actually having intellectual disabilities that go along with it. OK, maybe it's a bit of semantics also, but they feel strongly about it. Right. Now, if we don't know what causes autism, we do well, we're getting there very closely. So we've now there was a very important paper produced by written by a group at the Broad Institute, Harvard, MIT, which was one of the premier genetics genomics organizations in the country, and they've now identified 99 genes. It's a huge team of scientists, not only at the Broad, including PSI, Dizapailer College of Medicine, 99 genes involved in autism, all involved in early fetal development, early brain development in the first and second trimester of pregnancy. So now we're starting to really get our arms around what is the environment and that's one of the things I talk about in the book. I mean, we we have learned so much in the last couple of years about autism, how it begins early fetal development well before kids ever see vaccines. And that's one of the reasons I say vaccines did not cause Rachel's autism. Vaccines do not cause autism because autism is near a developmental, which means you develop it in the womb, or you become autistic in the womb, or you are autistic in the womb. However, however way you want to say it. Vaccines don't cause autism because autism is already underway. It's just literally the reason why this this happens and so many people make this connection is because around about the age that you would go and get the vaccines, sometimes around that age, some kids start so more signs of being autistic that their parents can spot. So they made that connection. And then they hear some rubbish about on some shady website about how vaccines cause autism and boom, psych. You know, early brain development, is it possible that some people have this tendency towards autism and it's exacerbated by vaccines? I don't think so. I think what what happens is the sequence of events happens during pregnancy, but the full clinical expression of autism often doesn't happen till 18 or 19 months of age like Rachel, for instance, wasn't actually diagnosed till 19 months of age. And there's some fabulous studies now showing that that clinical expression of autism actually coincides with a big increase in the in the volume of the brain. You can actually show on serial magnet magnetic residence imaging, serial MRI, how the brain starts to the brain. You can tell this money as well, right? And that's very important because parents will often remember, oh, my kid got vaccinated on 18 months of age or 15 months of age. You want to link the two, but now you can go back to six months of age. And this is studies done at the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill showing so that you could do an MRI at six months of age and they can predict now with they say with 90% accuracy, which of the kids will go on to develop autism and then you could take it. What are they seeing? What what are they seeing? They can see I have you have to go. We can go into detail in the paper, but they can see what are they saying signatures on MRI that tell them that this kid is going to go on to. I'm sorry, I'm taking the mic off and I know it's I know it's kind of like an okay thing to do because he's so big, but I still feel bad about it. It's just the seriousness around it, I think. As I said, like I'm not very kind of I do talk with seriousness sometimes, but you know, I'm quite laid back and chill as I'd like to think. Okay, so in fact, there is a way to test positive for autism done with this serial MRI. That's what they think. Right. And now we have the 99 gene so we can even take it back further by doing what's called whole exome sequencing, sequencing all the DNA, all the express DNA of an individual and in Rachel's case, we did that and we actually found a mutation in a gene controlling neuronal connections, which makes a lot of sense if you think about autism. Yeah, of course. So so there is a way to show whether children will be more likely to develop autism and there's there is a way to look at their brain through fMRI at a very early age and and also do the and also do genetic sequence. So it's not simply a matter of how they perform on cognitive tests. That's right. That's right. We're getting much better at getting our most autistic people have average or above average intelligence and a lot of skills. I mean, I don't really like to think in in sense of looking at the biggest people in the world. But if you look at pretty much any field, look at the visionaries in that field, whether it's modern day or from history, you can very much tell that there are some heavy traits of being autistic when there's people. It's not a coincidence around the diagnosis. Why do you think there's so many people that have these anecdotal stories of their child getting vaccinated, especially large doses of vaccines when they hit them with like 10 in a row and then all of a sudden or measles, measles, mumps and rebellious. The one that gets repeated over and over again. That's the one that made my child have autism. I've heard that so many times and I've heard it from friends, from friends that have children that have autism. They had a child, their child got the measles, mumps and rebellious shot. And then immediately there was a very distinct change in the child's behavior. Well, no question. When you get the measles, mumps, and rebellious vaccine, many times kids cry and things like that. And then autism will then begin sometime between the first and second year of life. So it's logical to want to connect the two. But now we know it's not even plausible because we know that if you go back to that MRI at six months of age or go back prenatally, we can even determine which kids are going to go on to develop autism. So even though this vaccine... And then complimenting it, complimenting it, are massive epidemiologic studies done on over one million kids. In fact, a new paper was just released this week showing that kids who get the MMR vaccine are no more likely to get autism than kids who don't get the MMR vaccine. I'd like to see that study. There's a bit of context to this video. It is four years ago. Just keep that in mind while watching this. I don't have a library of studies in my head, so I can't fact check. I could research, I guess. The converse is all watching. Kids on the autism spectrum are no more of likely to have gotten the MMR vaccine than kids not on the autism spectrum. OK, so it's the combination of that. Those big studies of over one million kids together with knowing what autism is that completely rules out the possibility. Right. So these genes, excuse me, the issue with these genes and then the ability to scan the brain with the serial MRI. And so you can tell which children have the propensity. Is it possible that children have all these issues and then do not get autism or do 100% of those children with those issues get autism? That's a good question. I don't know. I'm a Jackie, why do you think this person is lying? You seem to be very, like, passionate about this. I'm just interested, like, what what makes you think that is lying about the MMR vaccine? I mean, I think it's pretty conclusive that it doesn't. Do you have any research studies, like a recent one? I'm just looking at 20, 20, 23. Results for MMR and autism. There's June, June 2023 from the One Medical Center. MMR vaccines say for no link to autism. Even one from autism speaks, new meta-analysis confirms no association between autism and vaccines. Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, two studies have been cited by those claiming MMR vaccine causes autism. Both studies are critically flawed. I mean, it seems pretty conclusive to me. Yeah, I think probably that there might be a case for, like, anxiety being spiked. Or discomfort due to, like, a bad reaction to the vaccines that some some people just have in terms of just becoming a little bit sick or, like, uncomfortable or just regulated a little bit after, maybe. I think there's there could be some merit to that, Tracy, actually. But again, the thing is that autism is not developed during childhood. It's developed in the womb. That's why it's called neurodevelopmental. Vaccine scientists. So I'm, you know, the, you know, the well, well, I'm a biologist, but I'm a vaccine scientist who's really tried to do a deep dive in autism, doing research on the book versus human development. Right. Right. OK, so so what you're saying, though, is that if a child does not have these mutations and does not have these issues that are present during serial MRI, that they will not go on to develop autism? Is that true? As far as we can tell. As far as we can tell. So children without those issues who get vaccinated have have no problems, which most children have no problems. Right. Yeah. I mean, the, you know, we've learned a lot about the risk of vaccines and the numbers are extraordinary. I mean, the risk of a severe adverse event happening after getting a vaccine is roughly on the water of one in a million between between one in a million and one in 10 million. So and I found an internet report wants the like likelihood of getting struck by lightning is one in 700,000. So it's, you know, the likelihood of having a severe event after a vaccine is your odds are better of getting struck by lightning than when you say severe event. What do you mean by severe event, though? Well, which is actually a table that's put out by the National Vaccine Compensation Act that includes shoulder injury. That's one encephalitis shoulder injury. Yeah, that's actually from the actual injection. Yeah, but getting injecting it in the wrong place. Well, I do want to clarify my stance on this. I'm not saying that there are any negative effects to vaccines. I'm not talking about vaccines in general. I do have a separate opinion on that as well. It kind of follows mainstream ideas because I am a scientist. I did study biomedical sciences. I know how vaccines are made and work. But in terms of autism and vaccines, I am. It would be very, very difficult to provide unless there's some new revolutionary study that concretely ties those those things together, then. You know, it's my mind is not really going to change on that. I'm not talking about vaccines in general in this circumstance. I'm talking about autism and vaccines. Oh, so it goes into the joint or something like that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is that common? No. No. So there have been issues where children have adverse effects and reactions to vaccines. What do you attribute those to? One in a million. I think, you know, in some cases. Biological variability? I think in some cases, inadvertently, if it's a live virus vaccine like the measles, mumps, rubella vaccine and you have an underlying immune deficiency that wasn't picked up before, then that virus can replicate better but very rare things like that. Right. So as far as you know. Most vaccines are not. Well, there's different types of vaccines. You have live ones, as you said, where they just have a very, like, minuscule amount of actual, like, life, the life thing. You also have different types of vaccines other than that, which have perhaps segments of the DNA of a certain virus. You have dead versions of a particular bacterial infection or virus. You have, like, conjugates. You have these things called bacteria phages that can sometimes be used as well. You know, like, man, it's, um, there's a lot of complex data to the way that they do things. You should really, if you're interested in, like, the science behind things like that, um, bacteria phages are really, really interesting. They're basically like, um, they're kind of, they're viruses that, um, attack bacteria so that they look like little syringes with little legs coming off them. They literally just, like, sit on the edge of, um, cells and, like, inject, um, mRNA, which is, like, precursor to DNA into the cell for it to replicate proteins, usually more of itself if it's, like, a thing. They've been using that, I think, for possible treatment. I think with cancer cells as well. Um, bacteria phages, very interesting because of the tendency to, like, inject things in. Like, there is a lot of, um, possible utility in, like, using them to, to target particular cells, um, which could be, could be related to, like, cancer cells and stuff. So it's really, really cool stuff. Not bacteria phages, bacteria phage. Children who are healthy, who get a vaccine, it's, it's not logically possible for them to develop these traits, these mutations in the genes and these issues that you see present. As best we can tell right now, that seems to be the case. Right. As best you can tell right now is a, it's a great thing to say. I, I, but for people that are, like, hmm, that's, that's science. Every scientist will say that about everything. The outside, like, what does that mean? I'm not a doctor, I'm not smart enough to understand what Dr. Hotez is saying here. Right. What is he saying? As best as we can tell. How much can we tell? So here's what we can tell. We know, um, studies of 1 million children that there's no link between vaccines and autism. That's number one. And, and so let me parse. How do they do that? Let me, let me parse this out in two, in two bits. So there's, there's the studies on of 1 million children showing that vaccines do not cause autism. That's part one. The second part. Is it epidemiology study? And then I'll do a deeper dive on each of them. The second part shows not only is there massive evidence that there's no link between vaccines and autism, there's no plausibility because we know so much about autism, how it begins in pregnancy. Okay. So let's go back to the first part. The first part is studies on over 1 million children. One of the things that the anti-vaccine lobby does is they play this game. What I, well it's not really a game, but what they what they do is play this kind of thing of vaccine whack-a-mole because at first they alleged it was the MMR vaccine and that came out of the study that was published in the Lancet in 1998. Then another group came along and said, no, no, no, we didn't mean the MMR vaccine. We meant the thimerosal preservative that used to be in vaccine. Not only debunked the MMR link, they debunked the thimerosal link. Then the anti-vaccine lobby came along and said, no, no, we didn't mean that. We're spacing vaccines too close together. Then they changed around again saying now it's the alum or aluminum in vaccines. Each time the scientific community responds with massive epidemiologic studies showing none of those things are true. It's crazy just how much effort's gone into trying to spell this just this silly mistake that a really incompetent scientist had made a while ago and it's continuing to repeat itself because of people trying to attribute some cause to autism and parents getting scared or upset that the child's showing autistic traits and saying like, oh, okay. They were having vaccines. That's the reason. It's not just that they're just an autistic child. I do kind of relate somewhat to that feeling because I suppose as a parent you feel somewhat responsible and if you see that your child has in your eyes got a disease or a disorder then it's probably likely that you're going to feel like you want to do something to help and it's hard not to feel like it's your fault if you're the parent. It's definitely something when I was talking to my mom about on the podcast, you know. Sometimes she felt like a lot of the struggles that I was having in life and things like that was caused by her just not doing things right when it just wasn't the case. Sometimes things just happen especially if you have that kind of negative view about autism your child turns out to be autistic then I can understand the need to it makes sense to me if I fall asleep saying thank you everyone thanks and Thomas for a great streaming chat it's been lovely to have you on Tracy very much being a voice of wisdom and do you think that it's just when you look at say if there's one in a million that has an issue with this and it's not autism by the way so whatever those issues are that they hear these stories and these stories do accumulate because there's 300 plus million people in this country in over 10, 20 years of one in a million you develop a significant history of cases where children did have issues with vaccines so these people hear about these stories and people are terrified obviously I have children you become very overprotective of your children you worry a lot and then you also don't know why do they get so many shots all in a row like that why does a baby get 10 shots in a day that seems crazy? well they don't get 10 shots in a day most of the vaccines are now combined so for instance in one vaccine we can vaccinate against diphtheria pertussis tetanus polio homophilus influenza type B which is a terrible cause in some cases now we have hepatitis so one shot is protected well that's combined there's all sorts of studies showing that it's safe to combine them and it's fantastic now you can vaccinate with one shot against six diseases and these are life threatening diseases so the only concern is the child's immune system when they're bombarded with this one so a lot of times it causes them to be tired or they get sick the point is the immune system is not bombarded with other kind of a misnomer or a misunderstanding that's put out by the anti-vaccine lobby well a lot of the effects that happen when you actually have an immune response if you think about something like a fever the reason why you develop a fever is because your body is trying to increase the temperature of your body so it's less habitable to certain diseases like a lot of the actual symptoms of diseases not all of them mind you but a lot of them they actually like those things that you see those signs that you see those symptoms it's you it's your body doing that feeling lethargic trying to conserve energy lots of stuff like that that happens remember the child's gut the intestines and the respiratory is this organs of antigen presentation a baby on average is exposed to hundreds of new antigens every day antigen to anybody it's like these little proteins that sit on top of bacteria and a lot of things they interact with it's a lot about the way that the immune cells very much react to to antigens when they when you develop antibodies they have it's kind of like a lock and key so it's like a a triangle antigen like a triangle protein your body will create antibodies with a triangle shape that can latch onto it so it's like antibody touches antigen targets and then that if enough antibodies get stuck on it then it triggers other cells to come and like follow it and say oh hey this is a foreign thing we need to attack it we need to get rid of it and so that happens so the idea that you're going to quote overwhelm the immune system with a vaccine against six diseases just doesn't make any sense again this is all phony baloney stuff put out by the antivax phony baloney so that was Joe Rogan clips deary clips if you want to have a look at the original video scientists says vaccines don't cause autism Joe Rogan well I didn't think it was a very like a controversial opinion to have it's pretty founded in logic and science to quite a high degree thank you very much to Valerie Robinson for joining the neurodiverse squad thank you so much any support in that way massively helps encouraging me to do more of this kind of thing do more streams do more videos everything like that so yeah that has been my take on Joe Rogan episode the guy who was talking is called Peter Hotez don't really know much about the actual guy do you know that a lot of what he's talking about makes sense and kind of aligns with the research that I've done particularly around autism I think it was actually really good like considering this was four years ago the amount of insight that this man's had into the in their workings of the autistic community has been amazing like it really surprised me actually to be honest sounds like he's really been sort of researching involved in more than just the scientific aspect of it