 Hello everyone, good afternoon. Thanks for joining us for our second Tuesday talk. We are so excited to get this series ball rolling and we're actually talking with, I would say our graduate counterparts so we are of course the CSC UAO the undergraduate advising office. And I'm chatting today with Ashley from the graduate program office in CSC to talk all things master's programs, Suggs, PhD, all the fun stuff and all the questions that we often get from students. We know that answers are really important for students to have. So I've already talked a whole bunch and not introduced myself. My name is Gray strain I use they them or she her pronouns I am one of the staff academic advisors in the CSC UAO so you might have met with me. Whether an individual advising appointments or in our virtual drop in advising so hello again if we met before, and I will pass things over to Ashley to introduce herself and a little bit about what she does in the GPO. Hi everybody, my name is Ashley it's great mentioned and I'm the graduate programs coordinator in the GPO. So primarily I assist perspective and current master's students both masters and Suggs students and I also work with GPO staff. When it comes to recruitment admissions events, and then also of course graduate graduation related tasks. So nice to be with you all today. Thanks for being here and love to hear all the different hats he where I think we get we get used to that and higher ed kind of juggling all those different responsibilities. So, Ashley, I'm so sorry to start with the big question but I just have to jump right in with it. So, of course, as I mentioned the GPO oversees the master's programs, the PhD program and CSC, as well as another popular option the CSC sucks program. I'm wondering if you could touch on the differences between these programs, including that MS versus MSC option for the masters, and also what kind of student might want to apply for each different type of program. Okay, I'm going to start just by kind of checking off the PhD. Obviously, that's a longer program for research oriented people who are looking to either teach. graduate after they get do all the that's needed as part of the PhD writing a dissertation doing research, all that good stuff. And then, I'm going to start with the MSE versus MS degree citation like you mentioned, at the end there of your questions so basically, there are. Let me just say we would receive a number of questions about different tracks or focuses or areas of specialization in the masters program. And the quick and easy answer to are there any is no. The question is, the CSC masters degree program is a coursework based degree, whereby students are required to take at least one course graduate level course in each of the four technical areas within CSC at the graduate level. And those areas are AI hardware software and theory. And so being again a broad coursework based degree. All the program requirements are the same for masters and subs students. So there's no real difference there, as far as the program requirements are concerned. As far as the degree citations that exist though, if you want you can think of those as two different tracks MS versus MSE. Degree citation is for those who are getting a bachelor's degree in engineering. So a BSE or a BS in computer engineering, which it would be a BSE still but anyway, I think you get the idea, you have to have engineering in that bachelor's degree citation officially, in order to be eligible to get into the MSE or if you're admitted to choose that MSE degree citation. And if you don't have an engineering bachelor's then the MS degree citation would be the only option for you which is a master of science and degree. As far as the students who would be choosing which track which degree what do I do. I say start with what are your goals, what do you want to do after you graduate and then work back from there. So if, again, if you want to be a professor. If you want to pursue research, the PhD is what you should apply to and students should only apply to one CSE graduate program. Not more than one. So figure out which one interests you which one you want to apply to apply to that one. So students interested in the master's degrees would be either wanting to pursue industry after graduation, or perhaps they're not sure if the PhD program if research is right for them or if they may have an act for it or interest in it. So the master's is a great way to kind of figure out which faculty is doing research that interests you or perhaps is doing interesting things in their field. And then perhaps ask them if they have any research projects or anything that might be available to you a problem that you could work on to see if research might be something that would interest you and the master's program is a great way to kind of be able to connect with faculty where research is concerned. So, and even perhaps get credit for it. So I'll leave it at that. Awesome. Yeah, I think that's a kind of a pretty good primer on the differences between those options and a little teaser we may have a future conversation between the two of us talking a bit more about PhD. I'm going to zone in right now on both the sucks and the standard master's program options. So I'm curious for both sucks and the master's programs. What are the application requirements for students pursuing these options and when are applications typically do. Okay, good question. The applications one of those do those are easy and those are dates. So I'll start there. The deadlines if, and these deadlines only exist for current University of Michigan undergraduate students. So, the deadline if you are graduating in December, and you want to start the master's program the following month in January, your deadline would be the previous October 1. You're graduating in April, and you don't want to start the master's until September. Your deadline would be the previous January 15. So, those are the deadlines. Typically, the reason why those are only available to current undergrad students is because CSE and the master's level PhD to only admits for the fall term. So that said, if you're interested in applying for winter term, a January start, you would need to submit your application, and then follow up with an email to CSE grad staff at umich.edu, and let us know hey, I submitted an application for fall term, but I want to be considered for winter term, because I'll be graduating in December, we need to be flagged on that, because obviously, your application is going to be in with the rest of the fall applications, but we need to pull it and consider it for January admission winter. So that's why we need that email follow up. So those are the deadlines. As far as honing in on the master's and SUGS and what are the admission requirements. Basically, for the regular master's program, in addition to the obvious of earning a bachelor's degree and having a strong background in computer science or a related discipline or field. The applicants should have prepared to succeed in the courses that are outlined in the graduate programs guide that are required for the degree program. So you can find those on the current master's student website. And actually, students I don't think always think about going to the current master's student site because you're an undergrad student right it doesn't apply to you I'm not a master's student, but that's really where you find all the interesting information that may answer some of your questions about what those requirements are for the master's program so jump on over to that current master's student site on CSS web page, and you might find some interesting information there so as far as the regular master's GRE scores are not required. At least they have not been for the past two three years and will not be for fall 2023 admission consideration thereafter. I can't say it's something that the graduate admissions committee will revisit. So no GRE scores, do you have to worry about for SUGS they're not even required so. For the regular master's let's stick with that first cumulative GPA of at least 3.5 on a four point scale is it's expected. And then for the SUGS master's program, they're a little bit more stringent, let's say. So, you must have at least a cum GPA of 3.6 at the time of application. You need to maintain that 3.6 GPA throughout the rest of the bachelor's degree, you need to currently be in either data science, engineering or LSA computer science engineering or LSA computer engineering or be minoring in computer science. That would be within LSA. You must have completed EECS 281 and either 270 or 370, all with grades of B plus or better by the application deadline. You must have completed and ding ding ding. This is a new requirement. You can at least four EECS courses from 370, 376 or any upper level CS elective or flex CS technical elective at the 300 level or above, by the end of your first semester of the senior year. And in all of those cases, a grade of B plus or better needs to be earned. Now, if you're a senior and you're thinking about whoa, wait a minute, I didn't even know about that requirement. Well, don't fret. You should still apply to the program. But if you're a junior or a sophomore or maybe even a new student who's heard about Suggs and wants to plan ahead, keep that new requirement in mind as well. That's just a way to get undergrads thinking about how important it is to take start taking upper level EECS courses as undergrad students to see whether or not you have the aptitude and the ability to perform well in those courses because the Suggs is an accelerated master's program. I don't even know if I mentioned that yet it's an accelerated program it's one year, typically two terms. Whereas the regular master's is a two year program, typically some students finish in a year and a half, but typically it's two years. So, going back to the central requirements, you must earn only one bachelor's degree. So if you're a dual student in engineering, you're going to end up with two bachelor's degrees, you are not eligible for Suggs. So just keep that in mind. You must have at least one of three letters of recommendation from a core CSC faculty member. And those can be found on our website. And then as I mentioned before GRE scores are not required for Suggs and neither are total scores. So a little bonus there. So I hope that answers that question. Yeah, I think both directing folks the website for kind of the most up to date but also talking through just some of those requirements. I think it can be really hard for students sometimes to wrap their heads around all the different pieces. I really appreciate you going into detail about those those requirements. So looking at the Suggs program will come back to master's don't worry, but thinking about just Suggs for a second. I'm wondering how exactly the program is accelerated. I know there's some course double counting and some direct transfer courses. Can you talk a little bit more about that component of Suggs. Yeah, I'd be happy to. The program allows up to nine double counted credits between the undergrad and the grad degrees. So, since most each courses are for graduate level courses are for credit hour courses that typically ends up being eight credit hours total that most Suggs students double count. And double counting isn't anything that you have to officially register or make certain that you, you know, process or put those credits somewhere through some system somewhere. No, no, no. All that matters is that you know which courses you want to double count but keep in mind they will remain registered under the undergraduate career. So you don't have to worry about, you know, how do I get them to show up or anything like that. When it comes time for you to graduate as a Suggs student if you're admitted to the program. There is a place where we note those credits on a raccoon form, but that's not do until your final term that you apply for the master's graduate. So that maybe take some pressure off of those who are wondering what how do I get these officially to be recognized as my double counted courses you don't really so don't worry about that. And I send out emails once those forms are due by the time you are after actually that you've applied for graduation online. So, as far as transferring credit. RACM allows up to six credit hours to be transferred. But again, because each courses are typically for credit hours that that's usually the maximum that students will transfer. But that said, I should probably mention, the most students do not transfer credits. And the reason is because they have to be grad level and they have to not have been used or counted in any way towards the bachelor's degree to be available to be transferred to the graduate program. And I think most students are like, you know, my bachelor's degree program it was hard enough I don't want to, you know, take the time or put in the effort to go above and beyond either the 28 credits required for the bachelors or the 120 required in LSA to get those extra credits graduate level credits to transfer so, but it is possible, some students do it. And that's really what the nice kind of jumpstart that you can get with the accelerated sucks program is that RACM allows those double counted and transferred credits so I hope that answers that question. I appreciate you detailing that process I think that's what I often get questions the most about from students is, well double counting and transferring and what does that look like. So I think it is helpful also to jump on. We have a CSC Suggs page that we maintain on the undergrad side but also on your pages, you are able to access kind of a matrix of courses. So if you're looking to maybe double count or directly transfer. And that's where you can kind of see what courses will count as the grad level definitely something to check out when you're doing course planning and of course you'll come to us and we're happy to help with some of that upper level credit planning. So, moving away from sucks we spent some time on sucks we can talk about the standard master's program. I know you've mentioned you know some pieces of curriculum kind of that question you get about tracks and they're being you know, kind of a general approach to the curriculum. So if you talk just a little bit more obviously within the time we still have left just about what the course sequence looks like in the master's program. Yeah, and this will be kind of a shorter answer because there's no real template available for how students complete the master's degree courses. It really varies and depends on the interests of each student. And I did mention that there's one course that each, you know, at least one course in each of those four technical areas that needs to be completed. But once you've done that that typically ends up being about 16 credit hours. So, the rest of the 14 credits, and then if you've taken some as undergrad, you know, those can count to you if you're in sucks but you kind of have some freedom to choose which area or technical area you want to take those courses in so that's kind of nice so it really depends on what your interests are a great suggestion. So what I'm looking at graduate level courses to take is go on to CSE's website csc.engine.umich.edu and there's no E at the end of engine and look up the CSE faculty look at the things that they are doing and think about, you know, courses you've taken to CSE faculty but figure out like who do I want to be taught by who do I want to, you know, maybe work on one of those research problems with or approach for that letter of recommendation be thinking about these things early on. So just something to think about but again there's no real template. All students, you know, complete the degree requirements and in myriad ways and again the website is the best place to look at those courses that are listed and see what interests you most. I love that piece about the faculty I think that's always advice that I've given to students in the past is you know you're thinking about grad school you really want to look at faculty at any given program at any given school because that kind of creates your academic roadmap right you know the people that mentor you that are kind of learning from I think that's really important when you're approaching graduate education so I really love that piece for sure. Well we are at time, unfortunately, just about I'm wondering if there is any you know last minute thing that you want to share with students you know that you'd want kind of a message about those folks who are interested in pursuing CSE at the graduate level. Yeah, so we're here to answer any questions you have additional questions on our offices located on the third floor of the buster building so stop by be happy to help. And also it may interest you to know that I found this interesting when someone first shared it with me, the salary increase or salary differential can be significantly higher if if you're considering going into industry. It can be significantly higher if you go in with a master's degree versus just a bachelor's degree so just something that that might interest you I don't know if that's anything that would be advertised in the jobs that are internships that you'd be interested in pursuing but I just thought it's something that I would mention, because I found that it is like wow that's that's quite a differential there, and more information can be found on the College of Engineering Career Resource Center site and I think they have a. What is it called. Anyway, if you go there and look at the resources available, you'll find it so. Ashley, that was the perfect transition because I was going to say join us next week for the conversation with the Engineering Career Resource Center. We're talking to them it's like you knew almost what's going on. Yeah, so this concludes this week's Tuesday talk. So thankful for Ashley to join us. And again, next week, same time we posted at noon on Tuesday, August 30, our pre recorded conversation with again the Engineering Career Resource Center. So thanks so much Ashley and all of you for tuning in and have a great rest of your week.