 Welcome to No Summary, Golden Threads live stream series of conversations with artists that don't fit in a box. For those who may not know, Golden Thread is the first American theater company devoted to plays from or about the so-called Middle East. We are based in San Francisco and will be celebrating our 25th anniversary this year. My name is Armorn Aldo Grigorian, and I've been a fan of Golden Threads since the Ziriab show that was called the Fifth Stream. And I've been on the Golden Thread team for a few shows. My favorite being the Zara Nurbaq show called On behalf of all Muslims. And let's see, it was a comedy special. We sold out the Brava Theater 700 seats plus waiting list. And now I'd like to introduce our guests for today. Zara Jamshed, they then pronounce is a queer non-binary Pakistani American engineer, poet, and lighting designer. They're interested in using art and performance to grow connection and cultivate healing with queer and trans Muslim communities. If you'd like to say hello and or anything else, go for it. Hi, I'm excited to be here. Mark Erdahi is a gay Syrian American theater director working in New York City. He has directed and produced musicals and plays in New York Musical Festival, New York Friends, Off-Broadway, and taken multiple shows on tour around the country. He has two cats, Minnie and Rufus. How'd I do? You got it right. Happy to be here. Vera Hanouche, aka Vera, is an Armenian-American drag king, dancer, and activist. They are a member of Rebel Kings of Oakland, Suwana Kings, Southwest Asian and North African, Bay Area Development Officer for Covenant House, California, Lead Volunteer Trainer on the LGBT National Hotline, and board member of OCLASH, the Bay Area Drag Festival. How about that? That sounds about right. That's me. Thank you for having me. Alrighty. Apologies for not memorizing my notes. I was asking, you know, we were talking about it. It's sort of a concert style. You're up on stage, but your sheet music is there just to get you through. Let's see. Where are we? Let's get into the theme, which is a Suwana queer imagination. Oh, I was going to say real quick. I want to have us all take a little breath, deep breath, in and out, just to stay not too tightly wound up. And oh, feel free, whoever's watching or on Facebook live. Feel free to message us any little thoughts or emojis. Or even if you want to clap, I think we'll feel it through the screen. Let's see what's next. Okay. Let's jump right in. Let's start with Zara. Now have you engaged with your imagination and engaged with overlapping communities? Oh, yeah. Just like a tiny question with a very tiny answer. So RM and I met in a queer Muslim healing justice space and I think something that I am really appreciative of is the time that the two of us have been able to spend together thinking about when, what connection is possible when you sort of open the door through art. So I'm a poet. That's how I think of myself as a cultural worker. And particularly as someone that is a Pakistani American. So I'm a little too Pakistani to be American, a little too American to be Pakistani. And so in my writing, I think a lot about the third culture, the like ways in which like kids and immigrants navigate two cultures that they both belong to and don't belong to. And it's exciting to like make third culture legitimate, like as its own entity and to be able to practice doing that in poetry and say things like we pronounce our names wrong. You know, your uncle would probably be ashamed of us because we, you know, aren't as committed to like tradition. And yet we are very committed to tradition and reconnecting with our cultures of origin. Yeah, we love it. And, you know, the big, big fan of your poetry and artistry. And just so lucky to know you for these years. And it's an interesting adventure. Navigating all of that multiple layers of culture and everything. Just as a practice, I want to give you a snap and invite anybody to snap because I'll talk about it later briefly, but inspired by something Vera did one of our stages a couple of years ago, jumping over to Mark, wondering what your thoughts might be on this question. Have you engaged with your imagination and engaged with our overlapping communities? I think that I think I've probably been doing that for as long as I've been creating. I think it's right. I mean, we met in 2011. And I think that's that's pretty much what I do on a day to day basis. I kind of think of how the of what's next. And I'm always thinking of what can I create next? And who can I involve that doesn't fit in a box? And I think, you know, I consider myself a creator in that way. So it's kind of like in my blood to keep doing that. I really I so identified when Zara said that she's too American to be Pakistani and to Pakistani to be American. You know, Arm and I, we have had so many of those conversations. Like, I always feel the same way. I'm too American to be Syrian and too Syrian to be American. And so, you know, and I think that's that informs so much of what I do and who I like to work with, you know. And I think, yeah, that's how I do it every day. Yeah, it's been an interesting 10 years knowing you on both coasts. Just as a footnote, Zara, they then pronouns are on our on our weekend of the end of June. I know we're all juggling tons of things. And I'm just it's been so nice. Yeah, reflecting with Mark on just our careers. What of it has been professionally acknowledged or what of it is worthy of any acknowledgement? Heavily queer, I think we're both finally just a little bit re stepping into the Middle Eastern Swana, mean world in theater. And I think also a little bit because what pathways have been offered to us. I feel like I've learned more just in the last two years than ever in my whole career. So big love and, you know, props to Golden Thread and the newly formed in case anyone wants to check it out. I think it's Menatma that stands for Middle Eastern, North African Theater Makers Alliance, something like that. Wendy, links. Thanks also shout out to behind the scenes, Golden Thread folks. OK, I'm just taking a breath because I need to take a breath. And. Snaps got to keep myself focused. I'm also just a little bit. I'm a fan bot for you three. So I get excited. OK, a quick little bounce over to Vera. What might be your thoughts on this question? How have you engaged with your imagination and engaged with our overlapping communities? Oh, that is such it's such a good question. I love everyone's responses as far. I'm like thinking of mine and chewing on yours simultaneously, nam nam. But I would say, you know, I'm a drag king. And so doing drag has been the greatest kind of exploration of my imagination to date. You know, I've done dance. I've done theater and then this is this is both and, you know, drag for me is like 10,000 different arts all rolled into one. And it's been really just healing for me, gendery, bendy wise, and it's it's been amazing. It's I like I just have my like eyeliner pencil, just in case I need a mustache mid this panel, I'm just here ready. But, you know, so that's been a deep exploration of my imagination and what I can look like, how I can bring on it. You know, my drag name is Vera and my actual name, shock of the nation is also Vera, because it really just feels like an extension of myself. So the same kind of humor and play that I have out of drag, I bring into drag and I love seeing how that changes when I'm in drag, what sees the same, what different audience interactions I can have, what worlds I can create. It's just the best. I can't. I could talk about drag forever. But when you think about, you know, the intersecting cultural stuff for me, that's also been super g-dang healing as well. You know, I I've been a peer group facilitator for a queer swan FM's group. And then now I attend the group, which is amazing. And so I did that for a while and I've gone to queer swana stuff for a while, but only a couple of years ago, I would say maybe a couple. I started delving into doing swana drag stuff. Ultimate imagination healing. I did a show called Swana King, like a one a one man show. It was it was great. And just like seeing the audience react to that, it just I feel like such a beautiful moment for me. But just exploring what being a swan king means to me also over the quarantine times, there's now a group that were from everywhere. And we've been able to connect during these times called swan kings. So I'm, you know, routinely talking to, you know, family, drag king family from Lebanon, from Canada, from Boston, and being a part of that thing, also thinking of the third culture thing. I have learned more from like the group and from them than I ever have gotten from bio family. So that's really what being a queer swana person means to me now. It's shifted from being like queer swana support and also queer swana performance. And that's been a really powerful journey. And I just I just something you said about, you know, pronouncing our names wrong. I also don't speak anything. So that's been like a big thing for me. But having this kind of queer swana language where we all understand and like we understand that for some reason, you know, for me, there's like a block with what my dad will provide me with information wise because I'm queer. So filling the gaps and like exploring imagination with other queer swana friends and performers has been amazing. And it really like a place to explore and do fun things and do drag to arm MP3 and just like not lip sync and love it. Because, you know, it's just, you know, you don't have to lip sync the Armenian if you just dance it. Oh, my God. Oh, my God, I'm so like just oozing with joy. Shout out to that. Arm MP3 performance just by the way, because it's a vehicle for all kinds of amazing things. So so glad to have that in the. On the field, I guess I'll just briefly mention something that came up when you were speaking Vera. Like I was thinking of how I've come around so like forcefully with my queer Palestine and whereas like five years ago, I didn't have access to any of that stuff. And even it was, I think, less than a month ago that this group in and around Jerusalem called Al-Qaos, which I mispronounce thing, but whatever I think it means the rainbow or the park is a queer Palestinian activist group in Palestine. And just watching that live Instagram staying with all those really great. I mean, look, my nun was on there and Mickey Blanco, like really impressive people coming to just talk about queer Palestinian in this activism, artistry, existence, you know, what does it take? So I've been so inspired to like move in that direction, whereas I didn't have really much of a pathway before it was like putting those pieces together separately. So it's interesting. But back to imagination, which overlaps in a lot of areas too. But I guess I'll ask you guys, what's the hurdle that you've had in connecting with our swannanness or Middle Easternness or Eastern hemisphere roots and something that you can think of that got us over a little bit of a hurdle like that whoever wants to jump in if you have a thought. I think for me, a lot of it is guess, particularly from like a Muslim perspective, I guess more than like a geographic perspective, like figuring out like Halal to Haram ratios and like how like queer and vulgar and inappropriate, like am I allowed to be? And how much do I feel as if portraying a more like traditional version of like Islamic practices is something that like matters to me. Yeah, the Halal to Haram ratio. I think that I find it easy to get really bogged down in the idea that if you're not doing something as it was traditionally supposed to be done, then it's like not valid. And I think something that really helped in general was a finding like queer Muslim community to be like, oh, I can pray and I can like not wear hijab and like that's art too. Like being being able to like manifest yourself in a in a way that feels most authentic even like outside of an art context. But then also I used to live in New York City, and now I live in Oakland. And so the muster that go to now is like is run by black folks and is not as deeply committed to getting everything like exactly right. In terms of like a ritual in practice, it just feels much more relaxed. And it helps me feel less like I'm doing everything incorrectly and more that like you can just sort of come as you as you are. And there's less less expectation that like we're all going to we're all going to practice in in a certain way that like diversity of practice is like a thing that is valuable. Yeah, I love finding any of those spaces for a long term or temporarily, because yeah, being around other people who give you some cushion, I think is hard to come by often times. Yeah. Either of you, Mark or Vera have a hurdle that you jumped over or found a way to get over it. Connecting with some of our roots. Mark, would you like to go? I have this conversation a lot. It's so it's so I won't be I won't belabor it or belong with it, but I think it's very for me like it's been very personal. I think the hurdle has been very personal and it's been about, you know, we don't need to get into it too much. But it's for me to get over the hump to it's dealt a lot with my own whiteness and westernness and sort of a very a years long, you know, ironically, the pandemic, you know, Arm and I, we talked about this pandemic to it gave me a lot of time of introspection. So I feel like I did a lot of growing over the pandemic to sort of identify with with, you know, other things. But yeah, I think for me it was a lot of my sis whiteness that it was and it's an ongoing journey. I'm not saying that it's, you know, and done. But, you know, but that's been the biggest hurdle for me and sort of rediscovering a lot because I do come from a very multi ethnic household, you know, that was one side that was very, very Irish and very Western and very yeah, you know, normal American and then the other side being very Syrian and very differently cultured. And I think I had a lot of a long time of conflict in my own brain about those two worlds and where I fit in. And I think I had a lot of a long time of conflict in my own brain about those two worlds and where I fit in. And I think I still have those conversations, but like doing things like this and doing the work that I do in New York and constantly pushing out narratives that I'm interested in telling, you know, queer narratives, Middle Eastern narratives to get and that's new to me too that's like just getting into that world has been great. Just pushing myself to do it. And then working sort of, because I work commercially a lot with a lot of like, you know, commercial New York producers and trying to break that mold. Obviously I'm just one person and that's a lot of power but that's been fun to and pushes me also to try to break some of that. One person but you got us and our whole movement. Totally. It's great. For me, I think a lot like I've resonated with everything you've both said for me there's a lot of imposter syndrome going on with me being swanna, which is also due to like the paleness and also due to. I think it goes back I've actually been like having a moment thinking about I think it's like a lot of push pull with my father because I'm. My swanna side is my dad's side. And it, there's bit there's like, I can't know swanna stuff from you because I'm queer but also because you have like daughterly expectations of me you want me to be more swanna, but you also won't give me like the information so which translates to later on me being like do I do I deserve to delve into this like can I do a play about being a swan king. If I, you know, don't know. Like a timeline of dates of Armenian history circa blah blah ADBC years, but I feel like I tried to educate myself a lot during our second all of that which is already like a little late so I've built about that but any whoodle like that I feel like a lot of it is kind of imposter syndrome and not feeling like I deserve to delve into it, but if not me then who like who out there is more, more like anyone can can you know I would never say that to someone else, you know just I try to flip my brain sometimes and be like, would you tell me to be more like Armenian Syrian American King that they can't do a swan king number because I don't know no reason at all so I kind of and that's where a lot of community has has helped but I'm still struggling and you know in queer swanna spaces like a lot of times people speak Arabic and when they realize I don't. It's like I've been outed and there's that there's that like I've I've failed there or something like that. I'm like I can count to 10 I try to like joke about it and be like I watched type of work out videos. I can count, I can, I can, I can say car, you know, it's just there's a lot, there's a lot there too but that's what it kind of evoked for me also I'm still in this hallelujah scale. I used to with a friend of mine, if we saw someone who we thought was a queer swan a person, we would do the layla ometer so it'd be like if they were a little acrylic and if it was more obvious, it was just. So I just give that as a gift to you really not just came to my mind. Oh my god. Oh my god. Okay, inspiration overload, but I was to be expected. I'm going to make one brief comment on what you guys said, because I'm, I think this imposter syndrome has popped up often here and there, but I like Zara what you said about almost like. I may be, you know, what you said I think I was thinking existence, our existence is a little bit of a piece of art in itself. So like, how can it be inauthentic or something like that. I don't have much to think about. And I think I'll take a quick break, and say hi check in, whoever's watching. If you're just joining us. This is no summary Golden Threads live stream series of conversations with artists that don't fit in a box. We're in conversation with Zara Jamshed Mark or dahi there Hanush, and I'm Armando. Feel free to post questions to the Golden Thread Facebook live. And we can respond to those. We can check in. I'll try to check in with Chris and Wendy. And, oh, okay. So my need for engagement, my, you know, I'm overwhelmed since I'm just overwhelmed on a regular basis, especially with zoom. So happy to be here and be able to chat with everyone but I have college dropout remnants where I if I'm in a lecture, I get overloaded so I wanted to bring this up from Vera Suana King show, which was at the tutorial stage, one of my favorite places to work and to enjoy entertainment. But we were there in the show. And I have a few examples of this that really are almost life changing. In terms of art and entertainment. We're in the show. Great show by the way. But in the middle of the show, you introduce a little bit of choreography for the seated guests. It's simple, almost like flash mob choreography. And that I mean it's audience engagement in a simple way but it's like elevated from how do we engage as audience laughing, clapping, crying, whatever. This was dance. And you don't even have to stand up. So that was transformative and I just need a little bit more of that if I'm going to have any lecture information coming my way. I can all like move around with a little bit of the wave. Let me know if you have a thought on that or any response to that because I'm just such a big fan of that moment. I'm so glad that that was a wonderful moment for you for me it was really just my way to trick an entire audience to being my backup dancers for Armenian folk dance. Great. If you have a whole sea of people. I also handed out Armenian flags everyone was waving them to cute to cute. Do you want to do something now is that what you're saying is that is that Anita wanted desire. I was dreaming of it. We can do it for sure. Oh, absolutely. Oh, absolutely put me on the spot with the dance routine. Yes. But you know if you are sitting and it's all consensual consent based, you don't have to do anything but you can just you know put your hands up for three. Raise the swan a roof for three, and then bring it down for three. So we're going to raise it up for three. One, two, three, raise the swan a roof for three. Bring it down for three. One, two, three. I feel a little better on this is great one last time one last time if you missed it the first time to to the transfer again bringing it up one, two, three, raise the swan a roof. Bring it down. One, two, three. Yes. I love just to drop this bit of information. When you're writing the subway in New York and the people come on who are playing the drums. I love when they give you the history of drumming to like drumming is something that is done all over the world. Isn't that amazing that everyone has thought of the same thing or whatever. And I like this. Different terms but relation, whatever is all over the globe. I love when it pops up in any like outdoor gatherings in the park or, you know, protesting marching down the street. Okay, one last little thought because this is the kind of stuff that I just kind of need to get through. I'm a big fan, you know, everyone might know of musical theater, whether that's pop up in the middle of the street, Shakespeare in the parking lot, the musical, whatever I need to be moving a little bit to get my brain on stuck. But yeah, I went to the women's march in 2017 or 2018 in Oakland and we went like around the lake. But it was with my YMCA dance class hip hop dance class folks, and they had a simple flash mob choreography that we could do while we're walking. And it was just insane the difference between holding a sign and chanting. You know, free Palestine, queer Palestine, you know, LGBTQ rights versus making a rainbow doing all kinds of stuff and having kids on the side. Any people of all ages, watch and like come and take video or join in. The difference I think is so tangible to me and I don't know if everyone agrees, but that's kind of where I'm trying to sneak this audience engagement in. All right, let's see time check. Halfway through. I'll see if there's any info in the chat. Yeah, feel free to let me know. Wendy and Chris. Let's see where do we stand. Okay, it's tough because I think we're juggling here art and queerness and swanniness Middle Eastern is even those labels, I think are as hard to define their elusive they change. Who has maybe a thought on the term swanna, or the term queer or swan a queer, because those are almost like new terms I haven't used my whole career as a person. It's been a few years, and I'm embracing it as much as I can but until it evolves into some other language. No pressure meditation rumination is also part of our hang out. We love you audience, we love you, whoever you are. Also, a note, big fan of Golden thread YouTube channel check out the this no summary will be on their previous no summaries. And I think how around theater comments they have a nice channel that have some of our golden thread previous shows. I have a question. I'm just thinking about it. I, I like the term swanna and makes me feel like part of the community in the same way and queer makes me feel part of a community. I feel like they're both very, they're kind of I've never really thought about this but swanna is just like that kind of feeling for me as queer is to that part of my life. I love the all inclusive terms that make me feel warm and snugly and swanna queer together it's just like peanut butter and jelly other delicious flavors together. It's just, you know, they just really go together for me, swanna king swanna queer, and I feel like there's room in, there's room in queer for me for all of my gendery boundary stuff which is nice. And there's room for swanna for me in terms of being like I feel like I can say that you know that that that even with all my imposter syndrome meanness like that still feels good and like accurate and I don't have any hesitation, because I feel like that's open to diaspora and stuff like that as children of immigrants and etc etc. Yeah, those comfy spaces with coziness and support are just so hard to come by and they change so much. Like, I don't remember who brought it up but you know chosen family, the concept, I just had never really felt like it was for me, or that I needed it and suddenly was a huge thing that I felt suddenly I'm in it and it's taken you know, I got jumped to the forefront, just out of like over time you see who you still are fighting the battles with, or who's there, got your back for a moment. Anyway, I digress. Any other thoughts on the term swanna queer, swanna or queer. They seem so young to me, and yet I embrace them. Yeah, I remember. I mean, before this show, I was like, Do I count as swanna is Pakistan part of swannam. So, I think just in general, there's not a lot of that hasn't been historically a lot of language through which to be like oh yeah this is the, this is the community that I'm, that I'm part of. And if instead I feel like I often get lumped in as, as they see which is how like I identify this like of this sub continent. I feel like so much more about how I like move in in the world as a racialized person has much more to do with like how my religion is racialized more than like my physical features like as like an Asian person. So this is a term that feels very new for me. That I'm like enjoying sitting in and being being a part of, and like feeling a lot of like kinship with. And then with queerness, goodness just feels so like expansive and like relaxing. I don't know it feels like there's less expectations to be or act or move a certain way, and that like, particularly as like a non binary person, being able to hold like. masculine and femininity at the same time, being able to. Yeah, play play multiple roles, have the space to try new things and then if it doesn't work try something else like it's very, it's very fluid it's very. Yeah, expansive, it just feels very freeing and liberating. Yeah, I've had fun with the terms want us sort of crossing. I mean it's an embrace in a way. And I think back to that zero show the fifth string, just how this artist was somewhere in Arabia and made his way over to Spain and hung out with the Jews and the Spaniards and he was doing art and fashion and I don't know what you know but the historical Islamic Empire of sorts that just goes everywhere, but we can see how we're connected in some ways. Um, I guess mark I want to ask real quick because swan and queer being youngish terms, but you know we've chatted about how when we sort of started out. And it was like gay calm, you're gay you're gay. That was a, you know slur it was like, you know, that's, that's okay. We had to take that back and then you know like how do we. That's stuck in the LGBTQIA plus, and we don't always have time for all of that. You're correct. I mean swan is new to me too I think I'm still figuring out how to have a button, what to do with that for my art. But the. Yeah, I mean I think weirdness for us. For me, you and I, having known you has definitely evolved over the past decade. You know, but I agree I mean it's such an expansive term and I've taken, I've done like a lot of. It's kind of a great class last last semester it's in school it was called queer New York and it was just all beautifully studying queer history and queer culture and what it means today. And you know what it, there is no definition of what it means I mean, there's a basic definition but it's kind of what you make of it if you identify as queer. Yeah, but it certainly has evolved from those gay.com days. Um, hey that's our history you know like I like checking in with just the timeline I mean the more that we exist, the more our resume takes on another page that no one's ever going to really read but the definition from me that I've, I'm sneaking from my other Sparkle Awards show is who is someone that inspires you in the moment right now. You know, it can be a friend it can be someone you don't know, but you know like someone that's you've had for a long time or someone that's just popped up and you're like, they're giving me so much energy. You can use it in some of our artwork, our existence, our community stuff, whoever has a thought, feel free to share. I can go just because I also want everyone to follow this person immediately on Instagram. King Baba Moon is one of the most creative drag kings I've ever encountered and is, you know, I get constant inspiration and is, you know, very kind of to me young because I'm 30. And they're like 21. I just can't even but they do a lot of beautiful uplifted swan a culture, part of my son a King's group. The paints are just so beautiful they did a beautiful number recently to an Arabic song where they were both like mama and Baba Moon so the, the femme articulation and the mask, singing to each other. I love song and I just, I sat there and I was like crying, I was hosting the show to it was bad I was like in tears. It was just so beautiful and powerful and every time they post anything I'm like, well, that's a reason to go on going, because you know they are in the world and I get a lot of inspiration from my drag children lotus boys another phenomenal performer, and my brother and I go to Mercury so just throwing all those angels out there. Inspiration inspiration overload continues. Any thoughts. No pressure. You can share whenever you'd like to. We have, we have ample room to moves. So I like to just hang out with you guys. I'm lucky that in my day job. I've met a lot of really amazing artists. And so there was a group of three of us. Myself, Marissa Lashnov, who is an incredible incredible photographer and my friend Becca holds is like a like unbelievable jazz singer. So our mediums for art, we're all like really, really different. We would, you know, go to happy hour after work and we'd like share what we were working on we talked about how like nerve wracking it is to try to monetize our passions like as young people who are trying to take their art more seriously. And, yeah, being able to have that community I'm like is this what like, you know, enlightenment salons, like felt like for like old white people, like, is that this feeling that we like cultivated here of. Having a lot of really different interests, but like, kind of meeting in this, in this want for like to express ourselves as like clearly as possible to know that like pursuit of mastery is just like a really beautiful thing that I find so gorgeous about art. And yeah, so the two of them really really inspired me to take my art more seriously and to try to like bring it out into the world more. Mark, if you have a thought, feel free to share now I'm noticing the time and I'm realizing we're running out of time, six minutes, I'm going to read the questions in the chat, and you can share mark if you have an inspirational person. I mean, we only have six minutes. Let's see. There's some questions. Well, okay. In an imaginary situation, you're going to put a show together with all this stuff rolled into one. And what's like a top three way to approach it, make a dream come true. Anyone can share five minutes, no pressure. I can go because I think there was a question for me which is kind of similar to this about how do you take from from conception to production, how does that happen. And for me, maybe it's because I'm a Virgo but I make a lot of lists lists. It's just so they're so good. And I think about where where I want to start and where I want to end and then I kind of almost rainbow arch it like back towards mill and where I want the kind of big moment to be. And when I did my swan king show I knew I had certain things I wanted to talk about I wanted to talk about family rejection I wanted to talk about loss of, you know, cultural language I wanted to talk about drag I wanted to talk about my gender I wanted to talk about you don't all like all of these things and it was like a 30 to 45 minutes show and it's like okay how do I do all of that and what kind of things can I do where. So I wanted to also have some drag numbers just interspersed in there. So how to weave in and out of them and have monologue monologue dialogue that would kind of make sure that I hit all of them and I ended with my my cousin is so on a comedian. And does funny cover song so I ended with his rap about hummus which I just and great beliefs. So I feel like that. And I think I actually did the great police song but he also has a wrap about hummus because what limit yourself that's really the message that I have why limit yourself. But just kind of building block it to make sure that when you add it together intricately every message that I want is in there and kind of seamlessly between with with the with the kind of thread golden thread to see what I did there a thread of humor throughout. Because that's kind of what has sustained me both emotionally as a person as a swan a queer person as a performer and how that can even be evocative and lead to a more telling of truths. Love it. We're going to use it, we're going to run with it. Such good sharing 30 second thoughts one minute thoughts. If you guys want to share anything. I guess I'm going to talk about like lighting and not poetry I had the opportunity while I was in school to become an electrician and a lighting designer in the like college theater of mine. And like the first thing that I got to light was devised theater piece by a friend of mine. And it was all students of color that had written their, their own skits. And I guess part of starting this project for me involved just like how do I, how do I capture your, the beauty of your melanin like through the light. So often it's many lighting designers will just sort of like take all their colors based on the appearance of like white cast members, and often leaves people of color really like wash out. So, I don't know I think it's all about like, like collaboration and respect like how do I, as your like tech person, hold like put set you up for success by like, trying to make sure that like my, my art is as respectful as like your art is. So, like you, you're already starting from a place of community and from like teamwork I think that's the most exhilarating thing about any sort of like collaborative performance art is being able to yeah have that mutual respect for each other's crafts. Go team go. Any thought on, you know, making that, you know, trying to share our. So on a queerness, but thinking about the whole team like how do you make something that maybe not everybody's on the same page including us we're just catching up in a sense sometimes make it real. So, I mean I think that's about open communication and collaboration. And I think it's bringing about bringing on a diverse as diverse a team as possible, you know obviously not just optically but like, but who you want to work with. And I think when you, you know you, you've seen me in a room before working and stuff like that so you know that it collaboration and stuff comes so naturally to me sometimes to a fault I think I just love hearing everybody's questions and like forming my own based on what's best for the group. So I think that's like one of the biggest ways I mean if everybody just asks questions and isn't afraid of the answers and has open communication and dialogue with the team. I think that's how you create the best kind of art and I would imagine, I think, not imagine I know also the best kind of queer art and I imagine the best kind of swan a queer art. And it's so dependent on our artistic partners our friends. If we're in a pandemic or not, or leftovers. But yeah, I love being able to chat with you guys about this. Yeah, I guess before I do our little outro. What's that some kind of a takeaway, each of you might have for people in our community people outside of our community. We're sharing twins who are like where do I go. And our elders were like, what the heck are you doing. I can go for our elders get on, get on board get on the train shoot to get like, you know, I have so much love and respect and I just had like the most awkward Father's Day called my life but I you know I just were here, you know, I for me it's I'm providing so much love. Meet me. Let's, let's do this. There's no there's no reason to have like a generational gap here because of queerness. There's just my thoughts who I could go on before people who are into like, quanta, quanta, quanta swears. Oh my God, what's reset. It's one of queers. I just kind of want to make it one word now and make a group but anyway that's for later time. I would say just whatever you're hesitating on doing absolutely do it. And if you, if it's like if that happens to be in the realm of drag. Absolutely contact me because I co host a show that welcomes newbies and specifically like it's like if this is your first time we would love to be there with you. And I'm also a drag parent so we're here and just that there are people out there in community who want to lift you up. That's what I would say said well. Second, parting thoughts. Yeah. I was listening to a podcast called diaspora babes, and it was talking about talking about art and like why prioritizing art is important. And something that the host said that I feel like I'm going to remember for a really long time is so much of us worry like who cares about our art who I'm going to make this thing and then and then what like what impact is it going to have. And so what the host said was like no one's going to care about your art as much as you do. No one's going to be as invested in your like creative potential as you are that that is like both a responsibility and also incredibly liberating to be like who cares I care. And this is about fulfillment and expression and that it could feel really embarrassing to express a lot of emotions were taught to repress a lot of emotions in our culture. And so expressing them publicly and through words like in particular, like, vulnerable. But that since it is truly about like what have it joy release you get from from creation. That is absolutely like worth doing and that your like art is worth life sharing with the world and like you know, sometimes someone might not be ready for it, but sometimes someone will. And like the best part of performance to me is like at the end where like that one person comes up to you and it's like that really resonated with me. And you're like it doesn't matter who else heard what I had to say that person really heard me and like that's something that's really precious. Okay, I'll echo just a little bit of that because I think I feel so lucky for this luxury to be with all of you because it's also, you know, sometimes we can be a little bit on the same page enough to not have to explain every single thing. And that's little luxuries I'd like to take with our artists colleagues and such. So I'll wrap it up real quick. It seemed like we had an endless time and suddenly there's no time. Okay love you all so much. Thank you all for whoever is watching or who's going to watch in the future. We have come to the end of our time. Thanks to my LGBTQ plus comrades Zara Mark and Vera, you can connect with all of us. I don't know we'll put the links in the YouTube notes as usual. Let's see connect with golden thread sign up for the weekly email follow on Facebook and Instagram and Twitter. Thanks to how around for hosting us and Wendy Sahara and Chris and the whole team. Yeah, and when the YouTube comes out rewatch share with your friends and such. And I look forward to, you know, the future theater scene, as we're unwinding slowly. Let's see what else are my acceptance speech notes. Thank you all for attending, sharing the space with me. Have a nice weekend. Oh, it's the weekend. What a weekend. All right. Wrap myself up in a little unwrappable box until further corruption. Bye guys.