 Okay. We're recording. We are recording. So I, this is Mandy Joe Hanneke and I am calling the meeting of the community resources committee of the town council to order at 834 AM on April 8, 2020. And this is a virtual meeting in accordance with Governor Baker's March 12, 2020 order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law, MGL chapter 30 a section 18. The public has a link to be able to join in person in to be able to watch the meeting through zoom, and we are recording it for future broadcast. And so I think right now the next thing we will do is make sure everyone in attendance can hear and can be heard. And that will also serve to take attendance for Angela Mills who was taking our minutes for today. So as I say your name, please unmute yourself if you're muted. I think we're mostly unmuted right now and just say present. And so we'll start with Evan present. Steve. Shalini present. And myself is Mandy and I am present. We are missing Sarah Schwartz right now as our new committee member, one of our new committee members. And we also have present Athena O'Keeffe, our clerk of the council and Lynn Grisimer. Do you want to say something Lynn say hi. Hi. And also who will be running the reorganization part of the meeting per hour rules at this time. We have on the agenda, we are attempting public comment. So we have some attendees in the audience the chat box does not exist at this point. The only way you can indicate if you would like to make public comment is to click the raise hand button is also how we will attempt to talk during the meeting and communicate during the meeting for the person running the meeting. In terms of when you want to say something during our discussion and presentation and action items and all. And so at this time. Is there any comment if you're on the phone. Yep, I just saw someone on the phone we have a phone number so public comment if you're on the internet, you hit the raise hand button if you are on the phone you press star nine to raise your hand. And we will then recognize individuals if they would like to make public comment. At this time, are there, is there anyone who would like to make public comment if so please either press star nine or hit the raise hand button. I am not seeing anything pop up in the participants window for doing that. So we will move on to the next item on our agenda, as there has been no public comment. The next item is the reorganization of the committee this is the first meeting with an newly reconstituted committee so I will be passing this off to Lynn to run action item three a reorganization of the committee. So the first item is to discuss the role of the chair and the vice chair. And this is very similar to the way we did with the council, and Evan you were present the other day when we discussed this at the newly formed TSO group as well. So it's a way of just discussing what the expectations are, and then also what duties might be shared with the vice chair and with other members of the committee. So your thoughts. Can you say that again, what you you're asking a question. I'm asking if you have thoughts about the role of the chair and the vice chair, and Evan has raised his hand. So I was just going to say maybe the starting point for this conversation is for Mandy to just talk about what she has as chair of CRC been doing what the role has has involved. Okay, Andy job. So the typical chair duties and agenda setting, you know, communicating with Athena to get them posted in time, gathering all the documents for the meetings I talked regularly with the staff liaison which is Dave Zomek, this committee as a staff liaison so I talked regularly with him about things that we need to be looking for trying to get if he need if we need a presenter from staff or from the town. I talked with him about how to get that and then he generally tries to organize that. And then I talked regularly with the planning board chair on items related to for example for this agenda the master plan update revisions and the zoning bylaw revisions. I talked about documents procedures processes there were other things I was thinking about putting on this agenda that the planning board is that is front of the planning board and so I talked to the chair of the planning board about when they might be in front of the planning board when we might have to see them to try and do scheduling but also to pass that information and all along so that's more of in line with almost the council liaison role. But that I have sort of as chair because there's so much overlap between the two committees on what we deal with that I talked regularly with the chair of the planning board for that. So, you know, keeping track of what we're still look at, but that I would say that's pretty much what I've been doing. So, I've asked Athena, if she could actually find the list that we use the other day. When we were talking at TSO Athena were you able to find that. Yes. Okay, could you pull it up on the screen. I'm sorry we didn't send it to you in advance. Let's take a little moment to look at it. So, this list is color coded, meaning that they're the one the items in the red were basically identified as things that the chair of the committee definitely needed to do the things in black were things that were identified for TSO the things that might be able to be shared. But I think you should ignore the color coding and just look at the items other questions or ideas thoughts that you need to add particularly Mandy Joe as you look at it. And you think about your particular role with CRC and also in general with committees. Yeah, I did that. But, um, yeah, so I would add, obviously the report to town council that I forgot to talk about and then I did say assembly in the packet but the point person for appointments that's a new that actually will be something that is added on to the chairs role with the manager, because CRC will be in July, taking over planning board and ZBA appointments for from OCA. That's something that that will probably get added on to the role of the chair and or the vice chair that has not been part of the role, but we should not. There's going to be another line in this case, under point person for communication with. And that's where we're going to be dealing with the ZBA appointments it's good to note it here and to note that that is a CRC function only. And the good news is you've got Evan on this committee who has been extremely involved involved in still is and is chairing OCA during its last several months as they finish up the ZBA in the planning board appointments and so it's a terrific addition to have Evan there with that experience. Are there other ideas as you look at this. It's a challenge. It's a challenge. I'm sorry, go ahead. You're muted. Okay, got it. Okay. So, when you're thinking of plain person for communication with I wonder if we could consider adding communications with people who are maybe likes from the community who represent community leaders like the bed for example like should one of us be in touch with the bid to get information for you know get a pulse for that or maybe there's somebody and I mean the different stakeholders I can just think of the bid right now just because they are so involved and have a pulse on what the businesses need right now, especially as we come out of the recovery process. So I don't have this similar institution or organization for agriculture and we need to be in touch with them and that's just one idea. And also I'm curious to hear after this about the role of the vice chair. Yeah, I think it's a challenge just to add to your suggestion regarding the bid and the chamber. And I just want to mention that actually Paul and myself are actually starting a regular set of meetings. What I haven't done at this point is assign that to any committee, but I think your point is to say where would that eventually land and I think that's a terrific point, because it would really be more, more than likely a CRC thing, although there may be some issues related to finance as well as we look at the options for how we can support businesses. Any other questions or discussion on that particular point. Okay, and then shall any you particularly asked the question about vice chair. Did other people have comments. Yeah, I'm sorry I'm looking for the hand up. Yeah, so I think the description is very helpful but we have to remember that the committee is really a subdivision of the whole council. So our job is to make all councils. Job easier or clear. So the, and I'm looking at all the point person for communication with. So these would normally be, to my opinion, things that the council president would do so. And I think that the committee chair of CRC for example does all of these things as appropriate for the mission of CRC. So is it worth, if I were to read this from scratch. To me it looks like that this is a mini council, which it's not it's a committee of the council so should we just say as appropriate to fulfill the person for communication as appropriate, as appropriate for to fulfill the duties of this committee. But otherwise, if I were a member of the public looking for who should I bring my issue to this. I would be confused by this. Okay, I think we also need to clarify under right underneath their town manager appointments and staff hires this is really. This, this really applies to TSO only. Okay. And then I do want to make sure that somewhere in here. We add and just tell me where you think it should go is appointments to ZBA and planning board. Where, where that should go. Yeah, so I think that's under point person. Why don't we put right after the colon. Yeah, I'm sorry. I mean, just to some extent, you could. If we're creating if this is a completely new document that's being created for CRC you could get rid of that line that says TSO only and it would just be a point person for communication as appropriate with planning board and ZBA chairs. Because that's what the majority of the communication is with. Is that regarding appointments? Yeah. Okay. To some extent, as Mandy said she's obviously in communication with the planning board chair for other things but I think it is it is useful to call out specifically in the context of appointments that at least with OCA it's been the chair's job to maintain a relationship with the chairs of ZBA and planning board about membership needs about, you know, timelines for appointments and stuff like that. So why don't we put behind that in parentheses CRC as of July 1, 2020. Great. Other items on this. I mean, if, if you're going to do that I would delete the second and third lines because the academic community is a TSO thing I believe not a. Why don't we just for the sake of discussion so we don't lose anything put behind town manager UMass and college and outreach academic community put TSO. Okay. Same thing for the other line, the CPO. Okay. Can I go back to that one though? Yeah, you're right. It is only TSO but there are times when CRC is so involved with community issues. We'll think about that. Okay. Anything else. This is just a beginning of a draft and I think we can all add to it later and maybe you can bring it back to the full council at something. Okay. Any further discussion on this. Steve, did you have something to say. You're muted. Okay. Um, then, uh, any further discussion about the role of the vice chair. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Um, I just want to learn more about it since I've never been a vice chair in any of the committees. I'd like to learn more about what are the expectations and what is the role involved. As with the vice president of the council serves in the absence of the chair or as in the council's case, the president, the council. My observation base is really it's based on the committee as to whether or not the chair really needs the vice chair to do very much. Um, in some instances, we may have seen that, but frankly, I haven't seen vice chairs on committees doing a lot. Mandy Joe, Evan, um, Shalini, you've certainly been on finance. In that case, I think the chair often consulted with the vice chair on the agenda. And periodically, the vice chair would read draft some material. And some tip in some instances would maybe take a little more of a role in the draft of some materials. Evan. You have your hand up. Yeah, so, so I can speak, um, both from the perspective of vice chair of G a well under both Mandy and George, and as chair of OCA. And then back up Lynn's point that it doesn't vary by committee, depending on the people on the committee. And so in G a well, I've been vice chair of G a well since it started under two chairs now. And that role has been almost indistinguishable from the role of any other member of the committee. I think it was really one time where it really mattered that I was vice chair and that's when Mandy went to China, and I had to prepare the agenda, run one of the G a well meetings, and also do write the report that came from that meeting was a chair for two actually two meetings only because we did a practice meeting when she was still there. And then one when she was away and so for G a well as vice chair, it hasn't really been anything other than when Mandy was not available. I filled in and I haven't had to use that at all under George in OCA. Alyssa is my vice chair and and I said this in the TSO meeting. In that committee, the vice chair rolls a little bit different in that I use Alyssa very much as a sounding board. And so if I'm thinking, trying to think through the process that OCA should go to, or should go through, I'll usually call a lesson say hey I'm thinking about this, you know, tell me what's wrong with it. If I if I have questions, and part of that's also because Alyssa has, you know, a fair bit of experience and so maybe I wouldn't be as relying if it was someone else, but I think I would because it's really, I see the vice chairs the first person if I'm uncertain on how to proceed that I go to So I think it really depends on the committee. I've really enjoyed having Alyssa as vice chair, because she's someone that I know I can just text your call and say, I'm not sure how we should proceed with this or I'm not sure the best way to do this or what do you think about this timeline. And I always know Alyssa will give me her honest input. And so I think it, it's whatever you want it. Melanie, go ahead. Since it's, it depends on the different committees. I would love to hear what Mandy Joe six experiences and being the president and I'm assuming will continue to be the president. Oh, sorry. No, but what is the chair of this committee. What would be your expectations or what would what would be helpful and supportive to you. So, in the past six months or so I've struggled with this, prior to the reorganization Dorothy was my vice chair. And we tried a couple of different things I did use her as a sounding board for the community impact template as I was drafting that and got her feedback before it came to the whole thing so I would agree with Evan on stuff like that that, you know, for certain things, the vice chair can be the, the sounding board before things come to the committee. In some sense I use the planning board chair for some of that too, at this point for things that are and that is a result mainly of the fact that, and some of the stuff that I've used the planning board chair for that for is stuff that has to be that has to work jointly with the planning board so it has to go to the planning board at some point. And so I go to the planning board chair before I even bring it to the CRC to get the planning board sort of chairs ideas on what might be acceptable to the planning board or not or what things go their way or not so that when it's presented in public for the first time, it's not totally out there in terms of something that the planning board would never even agree to because it sets forth their process completely wrong. So, so when it for what we've been doing recently I've been using more of the planning board chair for some of that I foresee any chair in the future of CRC using whatever appropriate person that is depending on what's going on. And the fact that CRC is getting appointments I could foresee the Vice President taking on some of the either appointment organization materials or the non appointment organization materials because from what I've heard from Evan ZBA and planning board appointments are going to be a, you know, a lot of work. And so splitting that that sort of that duty off either where the chair keeps that or maybe the vice chair gets much of that in coordination with the chair could be a way to, to better to better utilize a vice chair on this committee but that's just a thought right now we'll have to see as a committee how all of that works. I also mentioned, Evan, you took a serious role in the realignment and descriptions of the committees as we've now adopted them. And I don't think that you necessarily did that as vice chair but you did that as a committee member. You want to speak to that. That's, that's correct that was an initiative that was as a member of the committee unrelated to my role as vice chair. And I think it's a good example of, you know, yes, there's things that the vice chair might do and obviously the special role of the chairs and present, but there's also the option or the opportunity that under certain things, a member of the committee may take a lead as well. I think that, for example, Mandy Joe correct me if I'm wrong but if Pat D'Andos had remained on this committee. She was going to be the liaison, well, super liaison I'm not sure quite how you all described it to the planning board is that correct. Yes, she was designated that she was also volunteering to help with the comprehensive housing policy draft in when we got to that point. And again, as a member of the committee, not as vice chair or chair of the committee. So it, I really, it, it really is up to how the committee members themselves receive it and also how the committee members themselves whether they want to take initiative or not. And with the agreement obviously of the committee, but I do want to go back to Steve's early comment and say, I think your, your addition of the words as appropriate are so important here because all committees are committees of the council. So are there any other additions or changes or questions about chair and vice chair at this point. And I'd like to proceed with the election of the chair of the committee and I'm accepting nominations. Steve, I see your hand. I'd like to nominate Mandy Joe for the position of chair. Okay, and shall any you had your hand up but now it's down. Yes, go ahead. Yeah, I was going to nominate Monday Joe as well. Okay. Are there any other nominations at this time. So would you please make a statement and tell us if you accept it and anything particular you want us to think about. Yeah, I accept it. Thank you for the confidence. I didn't really have a statement prepared, but I have enjoyed chairing it for the last six months I think CRC has a lot of work in front of it. I think it's going to be the next months and years, and it should be an interesting forward and going forward in terms of getting all of that done and communicating and working with the planning board and with all the members to figure it all out because we got a lot ahead of us. Any other questions at this point before I move to roll call vote. Okay, then I'm going to try to do this in alphabetical order. Please unmute and state I or nay. Yay. Yes. Yes. Okay, this, I'm sorry, you actually should state the person's name. Yes, Mandy Joe. Yes. Yes. Thank you Mandy Joe. Yeah, Mandy. Hey, Steve, Evan Ross. Thank you. Okay, and Steve Schreiber. Yes, and a key. Okay, it's unanimous. So Mandy, Joe, you take over the meeting from here, I'm going to hang out with you all if you don't mind. Although I, and I'm here if you have additional questions or anything, but I'm really now just an attendee. And thank you for running the discussion and the election and thank you to the committee for your confidence in re-electing me chair. And we will move on to the election of the vice chair. So I will be taking nominee nominations right now and nominations do not need a second and they can be for anyone, including yourself if you desire to do that. So I see Evan, so Evan. I'd like to nominate shall any ball now. Shalini, do you accept that nomination? Yes. Thank you. Do I see any other nominations? Evan, you still have your hand up. Okay. I am seeing no other nominations. Shalini, would you like to make a statement? Yes, I'm honored because I'm yet not being held this position in any other committee. So, firstly, I'm just very excited to be in this committee and honored to be in this committee. And I will do, you know, whatever is required from this committee and seeing our larger community at this point, and I will do my best to keep in touch with the key stakeholders and just as I'm sure any other community member in this committee would do, but also whatever is needed, I'm here and happy to share my skills in research and mindfulness or whatever is needed to support our chair and also support this committee and work for this community. Thank you. Thank you. We will now move to a vote. It needs to be by roll call because we're all virtual. Beyond the fact that it would probably be by roll call anyway. So, doing it alphabetically starts with me so I will, I will vote first and I will say Shalini. And next is Evan. Shalini. And Steve. Shalini. Shalini. Sarah Swartz is absent. So she will not be voting. So that is a four to zero. I have a point of order. What alphabet are you using? That's a joke. It's like it's 830 in the morning. It wasn't either my first name or last name. Last name. Well, then ball. But we rotate. Oh, God. It's early. Congratulations, Shalini. Thank you. Thanks, Evan. And that moves us to the master plan update revision. So I will, I believe I think I'm just going to try and start sharing my screen instead of Athena's screen here. And so let me see if I can hold on before I do that. Let me get the right thing up. Did that share to everyone? Okay. Just making sure. So we are sharing right now. We are looking at the land use section. First very rough draft of the. Land use section for the master plan update. At this time, I want to. Recognize that Christine Brestrop, our planning director has joined our meeting. And I'm going to introduce her to the planning board. I'm going to introduce her to the planning board. But I want to introduce this first. Before I go to her. This is something that was presented to the. Well, was going to be presented to the planning board at its March. Late March meeting before that meeting got canceled. So the planning board has actually not looked at this yet. So I'm going to introduce her to the planning board. And I'm going to introduce her to the planning board chair on whether we should even have this on the agenda today. And the planning board chair agreed that we could put it on the agenda, but would requested that our discussion not be very. In depth at this point that she would prefer. That CRC's discussion of any master plan update. And the planning board has had their discussion and then had, and then the planning staff has had a chance to revise the draft. After that discussion. And so given that request, I still thought it important to put it on the agenda to be able to have it in a packet. To have it in a report since one of the goals and one of the things we voted in the master plan update process was to keep the planning board in a report. And then we had to have it updated on what's going on and what those drafts are. And so one of the ways to do that is to make sure it's in a. In on an agenda. So this is at, at this point, it would be great if Christine Brestrup is willing to speak to what this looks like briefly. And then I can take some questions and any comments from the committee. Yes, Christine. Morning. How is everybody? So I use the land use section of the master plan as my jumping off point, because I'm really most familiar with the content of the land use section. And what I did was I went through each paragraph and thought about what has been done in the last 10 years that relates to the content of the paragraph. And so the writing in red in italics is my comments about what has been done, what hasn't been done, what we still need to do, et cetera. In the land use section, the beginning of the land use section deals with existing conditions. And obviously land use patterns have changed. Our population has changed that are different ways of using our land have changed. And so I've been working with Mike Warner of the IT department and with our new hire, Ben Breger, who is a about to be a graduate of UMass in the landscape architecture and regional planning department. He's very skilled using GIS. And he's working with Mike Warner of IT to come up with the new numbers for, you know, you can see on the first page dominant land uses residential. Well, is it still 23% is it changed? I guess it's probably my guess is that it's probably increased, but we need to get, you know, real data from our GIS to show that. So, so anyway, some of some of the information that we need, we're still working on in this chapter. So, you can see down at the bottom of the first page where it says, we're seeking updated percentages from IT and town staff. So that's what that indicates. Do I have control over this page to move, move ahead or move back or anything? Or is it all. I can, I can move it along. Yeah. So you might just, you know, move along kind of slowly, casually. So I've written in here since 2010, Amherst has experienced an increase in development of multifamily and mixed use buildings, mostly in the downtown and the village center. We're going to come up with a number of units that have been constructed since 2010. I think you'll be surprised at how many units have been constructed. So basically what we're doing is, you know, filling in information. As you go through this, you know, pages, the subsequent pages. I've tried to identify, let's see, this is a page. I don't know what page this is, but anyway, halfway down the page, we're talking about exploring design guidelines through a planning for housing production grant that we received. I'm sure you've heard about chapter 40 are it's been a topic of conversation. We have a higher consultants using a grant that we got from the state to explore whether chapter 40 R is a good mechanism for us to use to incentivize the development of housing and particularly, particularly affordable housing because 40 R districts all require 20 to 25% of affordable housing. So, so I've tried to highlight some of the things that we're currently working on and things that we will work on in the future. So that's kind of what this is all about. And like Mandy Joe said, the planning board really hasn't reviewed this. I think they've all received it. They did receive it in their packets. Prior to the March 18th planning board meeting, but then that meeting was canceled. So they haven't really had an opportunity to look at it since and it probably won't be on. Well, it's not on the next agenda. We've been given guidance by the town manager to keep our agendas fairly light for the next couple of meetings because of, you know, technical difficulties and trying to work out how to work with zoom and how to get input from the public. But I'm hoping that, you know, maybe in May that we can start to have a robust, a robust discussion about planning board and, or excuse me about the master plan with the planning board. So I don't know how much further you'd like me to go into this, or is that kind of a good summary of what we're doing. I think that was a great summary, Christine. So thank you for that. And for the brief update on that. At this point, are there any questions for. Christine. Yes, Evan. Yeah, I guess not so much a question, but a clarification. So when we were originally told that the master plan update would be limited to, I don't remember the wording that was used, but necessary. And it just, right. Necessary and obvious. And I loved that wording. I was curious what that would look like. And so it's useful now to have this draft to see what the intentions behind that were. So it seems like it's just updating numbers. Where they might be updated and then updating the plan. With what we have done since 2010 underneath some of those objectives and strategies. Is it, is it the intention that those essentially will be the two things we're going to do the master plan, just updated numbers for things like, you know, units and then updating. This is what we've done since. Yes, Christine. That is true to a large degree, but there are also places where. Particular strategies or recommendations of the master plan may not be applicable anymore. And I've made reference to the fact that we may want to, you know, rethink whether we want to travel down a certain road or not, not literally, but figuratively, you know, certain things had been thought about as things that we wanted to do back in 2010, but they may not necessarily be things that we still need to do, or maybe they're things that we already accomplished that we can kind of put to the side and move on to other things. So if there are, you know, particular. Obvious. What should I say strategies or. Recommendations that just don't make sense anymore, or if the viewpoint on certain things has changed so that we're moving in a new direction. I've tried to capture that in this writing, but what I didn't want to do was. Tried to put in anything that would indicate that the town is taking, you know, a substantial substantially different direction on, on different things without having any reason to think, I mean, other than my own thought process, or perhaps the thought process of planning board members that it might be appropriate. I've tried to kind of stick with, you know, what we've already done and what we know is probably going to happen in the future without, you know, taking leaps of faith or anything to, to make statements that nobody's really thought about or talked about. Evan. Yeah. So I appreciate that clarification. So just to follow up on the aspect that you've said about things that maybe we don't think are sufficient. Maybe we don't think are such a good idea anymore might not happen. So like one example that I saw in this draft was the transfer development rights. And there was the statement that, yeah, we investigated that and then we decided it wasn't a good idea. So are you thinking that there might be a conversation to just take that strategy out of the master plan completely because we investigated it and decided not to pursue it. Or is there thought we would just update and say. At the time we didn't pursue this, but that doesn't necessarily preclude us from investigating it again in the future. I think it's a good. I think it's a good idea to leave it in the master plan because people are still talking about transfer development rights. It hasn't really been instituted in very many cities or towns in Massachusetts, but planners still talk about it as a something that people might want to consider. So I wouldn't want to kind of discount it completely and take it out of the master plan, but just kind of leave it in there and say, you know, if somebody wanted to take this further in the future, they could do that, but to know that we've already explored it to a certain degree and found that it wasn't useful at the time. Shalini. Thank you. This is really helpful to see what's, what's being done with it. And as I was reading it, I, it seems like there are a lot of, a question of excellent strategies in here. And would we be getting updates of, you know, like it says in inventory of what are our natural resource lands or the, you know, so an update would include an inventory of all the different assets we have. And also using this as an opportunity to see some of the strategies that were not implemented. For example, what is the town should engage in a comprehensive review and update of the zoning by a law and maps to ensure, you know, blah, blah, blah, that our goals are being met. So would we also be using, this is an opportunity to identify some of the strategy. What needs to be urgently addressed. I'm not sure I understand the question, but if you're talking about actually engaging in. Inventorying various lands at this point, I don't think we have the. What manpower, et cetera, to do that, I think, you know, the idea with this master plan update is that the town council is required to adopt a master plan every 20 years. So this particular master plan was adopted in 2010. So that means that a new master plan would be. Needed in 2030. So what we've been talking about the. The planning board and the planning board chair and I, that sometime in the next few years, perhaps in. 2025, we would launch a new master plan process. And then at that time, we would probably hire a consultant and really do, you know, a thorough job of updating the master plan, which would include updating the inventories. We do have some update of inventory lands. In the new open space and recreation plan, which should be actually incorporated as part of this master plan. The last update was incorporated by reference. By the planning board back a number of years ago, but now that we have a new open space and recreation plan, the planning board really should incorporate that by reference into this land use plan. So that actually does include inventories of various types of lands that we own that are open space and recreation and conservation, et cetera. So you might want to take a look at that if you're particularly interested in that topic. And then I will try to put it on the planning board's agenda to incorporate that new update by reference into this. Master plan. Can I just do a follow up clarification? So I by no means suggest I was suggesting that we need to change this map, update this master plan. I think this has excellent strategies. What I was trying to get to is that this has excellent strategies. And as you're going over it and seeing what has been done and not done and removing some of the redundant or unnecessary strategies, we can prioritize these strategies. We can prioritize these strategies also looking at the strategies that really make sense. And identify which ones haven't been acted upon. And so then, and then we can give an occurrence scenario. We can prioritize these strategies are the ones. We should be focusing on and implementing them. Thank you. Are there any other questions or comments for Christine or on this slide? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that has had a good chance to look at this draft. And after the staff then has the ability to. Modify the draft in response to the planning boards, questions and comments. We'll, we'll come back again and look at it. But that could be a couple of months down the road is what it sounds like because it is not. Unfortunately, given the situation right now, high on the priority list in terms of remote meetings. I am seeing no hands. So that means we will move on. From this item to the next item, which I hope Christine can stay for on this one too. And this is the zoning bylaws. We're in the middle of recommending a referral from the council to recommend a plan for approaching the zoning bylaw revisions. You saw in the land use chapter that those revisions, the planning board, the planning board, the planning board, the planning board plans to do a more comprehensive revision from the planning staff. But this, this is a plan to when revisions come, when proposed amendments come, how do we deal with it? And we're supposed to be working with the planning board to come up with something in the packet. There was. I think I can switch this share now. I don't know whether it did switch. It might have switched. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. CRC in early March. Past emotion to recommend the adoption by the, by the council of this flow chart. In talking with the planning board chair, we realized we're missing a section. And we're missing something. And so what is in the packet for today is sort of an addition to the flow chart. So we're going to move on to the planning board. The planning board has not seen it yet. It has been to the planning board chair. For some comments. And we'll take. Our comments. I will forward another draft onto the planning board chair. So hopefully they can look at it at some point. But let me pull up. That document. And there we go. And this is a very first rough draft. The planning board chair. The planning board chair draft of this has seen this draft. This draft. I have not received too many comments on, because I didn't have time to get those comments from the planning board chair. There is one comment on some wording and then she'll get more. But. And Christine, have you had a chance to look at this? I. I haven't looked at it. I just looked at it briefly last night because that's, I received it yesterday. I don't know if you can see it. I don't know if you can see it. I don't know if you can see it. I don't know if you can see it. I don't have any comments with it. And I understand that it's. A precursor to the flow chart that. The planning board looked at on March 4th. Which is. In fact, you've made reference to it. I might just hold it up. I don't know if you can see this, but this is the, the chart that the planning board looked at on March 4th. And they agreed with that. But there were some questions about. The proposed zoning by law amendment. And this is what you have prepared here. Many Joe is, is the answer to that. Yes. So, so one of the things this is prepared based on prior community resources committee conversations. Obviously some of you weren't involved in that since we've switched membership since then, but one of the thoughts on the prior flow chart on the flow chart that's already been recommended to the council, but has not been heard at the council was that. Zoning by law amendments be heard in hearings and then at the council level in bundles. And so how do you get to those bundles and how do you schedule those bundles? There's also been a thought that the planning board. It would be helpful to the planning board and potentially to CRC to have set timeframes for when to sort of really have deadlines like. You know, you know, we don't necessarily have these joint hearings, but we don't want to necessarily be having joint hearings every month. Because that requires for CRC. Extra meetings, because we would join the planning boards hearing on a Wednesday evening. And so how can we make that more efficient, but also have sort of a schedule. And then for the planning board know when any amendments, proposals, but also the planning board, but also the planning board. And so that's what I would like to do. I would like to do that by in order to make those hearing dates. So that's what the attempt here is to do. To sort of set that forth. I would greatly appreciate comments on both of, you know, the flow chart that I tried to create from the wording to be able to better understand the wording, the wording, and also the timing, the timing from Christine, you know, it's something. I randomly picked based on holidays and sort of the flow of the timing and I don't know whether three is too little too many, whether we want to look at four, whether we want to look at two. So comments like that would be quite helpful as we move towards getting something we can really send off to the planning board for their comments. Christine. So I think three makes sense, at least to start out. I think that, you know, we may possibly want to move to more than that, but in the past we've only had two opportunities to present zoning amendments and that was to town meetings. So allowing three opportunities, I think, makes sense. There's a lot of pent up desire to change the zoning bylaw. Most of it, we're hoping can be incorporated in the process that the building commissioner is spearheading the kind of total rewrite of the zoning bylaw. But some of the things we really want to do sooner rather than later. And I think Mandy Joe has been having conversations with the planning board chair about what some of those things might be. So having an opportunity three times a year makes sense. I think that, you know, trying to do things in the middle of winter when the holidays are upon us and we have difficulties with snow. So, you know, the period from November through January is problematic. And then starting up in February, that's what we're used to. The planning board is used to starting to hold public hearings in February and looking towards a town meeting date in May. And then certainly May is a good time because that is prior to the summer when many people go away and then when they come back in September, they're ready to go again. So this proposal of having the planning board start in February, May and September seems to make sense to me. I haven't discussed this with Christine Gray Mullen and the planning board chair and the rest of the planning board. But as a starting point, it makes sense. Thank you. I just want to respond to one thing and then we'll take any other questions or comments that the rest of the committee has. And the dates are obviously at this point. Randomly chosen months. I think I was thinking similar to what Christine just said, but, but acknowledge that there might be sometimes where you can't wait till then because of an amendment or some desire that, that it's, it's more time, the time need or the for an amendment. So I think that's a good point. And to hold a hearing is, is necessary to be done as soon as the planning board is ready for that amendment that the bundling of multiple amendments into sort of one group of hearings. Isn't logical and therefore you might go outside of the system. And that, that is something I'm not sure this acknowledges. Enough, but it's something that I know planning board and CRC have acknowledged that you can't necessarily be strict to this timeline. So I think that's a, a guide for everything in the typical process, not anything that might come up that needs heard quicker. Does anyone want to say, or have any questions or anything feedback on this? Evan. Yeah. So, obviously I'm a new addition to CRC. And so I don't want to be that annoying person who jumps in at the end of the process with opinions, but I'm not sure that I've been there for the prior deliberations. I had a question and then just sort of my, my initial take on this. The question was the draft says below is a plan for considering zoning bylaw amendments that originate in the planning board or from planning staff. And I'm just curious, we also know that the council or counselors can also offer their own zoning amendments. And so if, if that wording was intentionally exclusive of, of zoning amendments that come from the council or if the thought is that they'll, they'll go to the planning board anyway. And then the second, you know, sort of knee jerk reaction is, and I appreciated Christine's explanation. I think a lot of it made sense. I'm a little uncomfortable with the idea. Christine made the statement, we used to only have two opportunities and now we have three. And to me, the thought is, well, but one of the major reasons we moved away from a town meeting style was to have this year round ability to do things. And if the dramatic improvement is we just have one more time of year that we can hear zoning amendments that doesn't necessarily feel like we're accomplishing the goal of the charter. And so my first read on this was, Oh, well, this actually feels a little more town meeting. If we would just add one more town meeting a year. And so I guess I'm just curious. If I'm not sure what the major issue is with just being able to have them sort of as they come and have it in the, the lap of the planning staff and the planning board chair to determine when there might be hearings. If there's, if there is a feeling that there needs to be this sort of calendar. So I think that's a really important point to consider. Because I do just worry about. It feels to me like a reversion back to a town meeting approach where we're only allowed to consider things that are zoning related three times a year. So I will. Try to respond to both of those initially. I'm going to switch the documents to this flow chart. Because I think that will help answer some of them. So I'm going to go back to the flow chart that shows essentially the charter required and the state law required steps. And timelines that need to be done in order to actually enact. Zoning by law change. This starts at the council receiving a proposal, which means that proposal could come from the planning board from a counselor or through a petition under the charter in general, or planning staff, or the planning board. So I'm going to go through the planning board first. If it comes from a counselor or from a. Petition article, it will have not been through the planning board yet. And so if it starts with a counselor or petition article, it starts at the blue box. We as council as the town council receive it. And we have an MGL responsibility to refer that. To the planning board within 14 days and all. And so that's why this red box and the green box are actually dotted. That's meant to be optional. Because if something starts in the planning board or with the planning staff, all of that review, most of that review happens before the council even receives it. And so they, when the council receives it to start the 65 day timeline to hold the public hearing that is required by state law, the planning board won't really have to review the document again, the revision again, because they will have already, they will have created it. And so, so the process that is in the other document that we were talking about with this potential three times a year, the planning board, and all is a process to say if the planning board is seeking a revision so that they've already done all of the review, when do they bundle them up to come to the council to request the hearings that we do jointly with CRC. So it did actually specifically exclude counselor and petition article. And so that's a process to say, if the planning board is seeking a revision, why don't we start on that. And I think that really makes sense, but I'd like to add to that that councilor and petition articles from that, because they start at a different point. And because they start without the planning board review. And so that planning board review. Happens while on the flow chart. Instead of mostly before the flow chart starts. I hope that makes some sense. And when, Whereas if the planning board is proposing revisions on their own they can do much of that work outside of this timeline before we start the formal MGL countdowns. So that's why it did exclude the counselor and the petition articles from that document because we're kind of outside the timeline at that point. That does not mean counselors and petition articles won't be heard. And so that's the answer to I think the first one. The second one was the timing. Previous discussions in CRC and mainly with the planning board have been that they are desiring some sort of timeline so that they haven't they have a goal to aim for to finalize their wording on amendments. There is a feeling that potentially if there isn't an aim for certain dates that amendments may get pushed off further and further and not necessarily be finalized to ever get to the hearing stage, or it might take longer whereas if they say oh we have to say yes or no by a certain date, it may actually prompt more of a consideration of zoning by law amendments and amendments on a more regular timeframe. So the first thing to start this process of thinking about thinking about a timeline of this is to give some some guidance to and some dates to aim for. You know, so deadlines to aim for the other one was as I said earlier, while the others two others one is joint hearings means that anytime you have a zoning by law amendment you must have a hearing in the planning board and you must have a hearing at the council the council is designated. This committee to hold that hearing and the goal is to hold them jointly. If there are a time when the goal was to be able to do that in bundles in groups instead of one, maybe every week for a while, and you're always considering them and you've always got then these different timelines under mgl running and overlapping and everything that maybe if we bundle amendments into groups to say okay we're going to do our hearings as best we can in these groups, simply for efficiency of committee time, because we have to attend not only our CRC meetings, whenever we hold them, hopefully when we get back to normal every other week. And, but we all then anytime there's a zoning amendment we also have to attend the joint hearing, which is yet another meeting on top of that to try and recognize the timing and the time commitment that this committee has to that and maybe make that a little more efficient number one. And number two, the thought was that by bundling amendments, it's actually easier to get your mind into zoning amendments zoning changes, and all instead of everyone off where you've got maybe you've got an amendment that is wording changes or cleaning up something. You don't really need to do that separately it's not two time sensitive so it can wait till you have maybe three or four of those was another thinking of that instead of one at a time if they aren't time sensitive but realizing that if something is time sensitive or if the planning board or a committee or council desires something to happen sooner, you can always do that. But that in general it would be better to bundle things into groups of three or four or five, if they're small maybe a big one as Christine was talking about some of these larger zoning bylaw changes if you're looking at a full rewrite. You're going to be going to be enough and you're going to do it when it's ready. Because you can't bundle more than that when you're already looking at huge sections of the bylaw, but some of the smaller ones you might be able to bundle together to just do them all at once. I hope that answers some of those questions. I'm Christine and Steve might be able to answer a little bit more on some of that thinking because Steve's been through some of these conversations to and either. I'm going to say, I'm dying to try it because I think that we won't know if it works until we try it. So, I'm convinced that it's worth a try it. Christine, do you have anything to add. I don't, I don't really have anything to add I think what you said Mandy Joe is is right and I think we just need to try it and see how it works and then, if it doesn't work exactly like we expect will change it. That's, that's what I think. Shawnee. Okay, so what I'm hearing is, because I had a similar question as Evan and what I'm hearing is for the sake of efficiencies and to get things done. It sounds counterintuitive but it almost sounds like doing it in these chunks is going to have everyone more focused about getting it done. And, and then there are these regulations by the charter and state that are sort of imposed on us and we have to do things in a certain way. So, on the other hand, there is a perception the community, you know with all that our town is really hard to work with and the zoning changes are really hard and there are a lot of barriers. So in balancing these two different things one thing comes to mind is like having more clear communication with the business community or even the residents who want changes that you know this is our thinking behind it and this is why we're doing it in this way and let's work together to move things along. Another thing I was wondering is, I'm sure again, I'm sure you've already done that but have you looked at North Hampton or other places that are supposedly more business friendly and retain their character as a town have that good balance. What is their process like. Christine. So we did look into what North Hampton does we had the assistant planning director, I'm not sure that that's her title but Carolyn Mitch, who's been working in North Hampton for a long time came and spoke with the zoning subcommittee. I believe it was in 2018 or 19 and shared their process and their process is really began a number of years ago when they did their comprehensive plan. Since then it's really been up to staff planning department staff to pick, you know, some things that they that were determined back during the comprehensive plan planning stage, and work on them to the point where they're ready, and then bring them to town council as a group. I think it's called the Community Resources Committee that is involved in planning in zoning bylaw changes, but in in it sounds like in North Hampton it's really the planning department staff and the town council who does most of the work on the zoning amendments and the planning board itself holds public hearings but isn't necessarily that involved in developing the zoning amendments so it sounds like it's a little bit different but we did hear from them. I think possibly Steve was on the zoning subcommittee at that time I don't really remember I remember that Greg Stutzman was and he wrote a, maybe it was minutes of the zoning subcommittee from that day I could try to find those and circulate them but I guess what I'm saying is yes we've reached out to North Hampton. But it appears that they have a different way of doing this we may be able to learn from what they do but it's not really following the same path as as our path. Do you have anything to add Steve. Any other thoughts for now. This is obviously not the only time we will be discussing this we will have this back multiple times. Shawnee. I just had a follow up question so that it sounds like then they don't do things in blocks they just do it as issues come up. Am I right then understanding. Christine. The impression is that they do things when they're ready. They bring things to town council when the planning staff thinks that they're ready. So I didn't have the impression that they did things in blocks or with any particular schedule throughout the year that it's really you know when when planning department staff thinks these things are ready they bring them to town council or city council in their direction they you know go through the process so so I don't think that they're, I mean, they probably do try to put things together in the sense that if one change relates to another change they would put those together. But I don't think they have a strict way of doing things. Follow up question. I'm sorry, this is all very new to me so I'm trying to understand and just because I happen to be in the business community a lot and I am a business owner and I have to explain to the stakeholders in our community why we're adopting this particular process when we when there's so many, you know, and that's a perception and I don't know what exactly is the case but how do I explain to the business community and this is why we're adopting this process as opposed to what Northampton or other towns are doing where the perception is that it is easier for businesses that are and I'm talking about businesses that are conducive to our development that is conducive to our style and what we want. It's, it's harder to do that in Amherst. So how do we communicate with and what is the logic for us adopting this process. Christine. I think we're in transition Northampton has had a city council for a long time they've been working with their process for, you know, decades. We are just starting we haven't had any zoning changes at all since the spring of 2018. So we're trying to put a process in place that will accommodate the backlog of issues that we have and the complicated issues that we are trying to organize them in a way that makes sense. As I said before I think you know we have to try something and try to organize it in a way that isn't very confusing or very labor intensive for everybody and this seems to be a way of doing that. I think, you know, given the backlog and the variety of changes that we want to make it would be potentially chaotic if we just started bringing things, you know, one at a time to town council when they appeared to be ready to the planning board, I think, you know, having a way of organizing them is really the right way to go and we're ready and willing to go and let's establish a process and start and then we'll be more apt to satisfy the needs of the business community. Is there anyone else that has any questions or anything. Not seeing any so obviously we will bring this back with potentially changes. It might take a little bit because I'm not sure how long it will take for the planning board to get something like this on their agenda. And the goal is to have a joint document that the planning board agrees with to before we take it to the town council so it could be a little bit between things. Let's stop that one and we will take, we will move on on the agenda. At this point to CRC meeting times. We need to potentially I might push this to a next discussion we don't have all five of our members so it's hard to discuss a CRC meeting time when we don't have all five members but I do want to put this up. And talk to people about this. All five members responded to our group availability survey. And there was not a single time Monday to Friday that all five members said they were available to meet, which presents large amounts of problems for us actually scheduling regular meetings. I think given the situation right now we might be able to get away with not necessarily scheduling regular meetings, because of what's going on much of our work depends on the planning board actually doing stuff to, and they are moving to a hearing only almost mode where they won't be looking at, at least initially from my understanding zoning by law amendments or even the master plan update for a couple of meetings, which means we won't be looking at zoning by law amendments or master plan updates for a couple of meetings until they have a chance so we might not have as much on our agenda and have to meet as regularly. Given just the, you know, throwing up of everyone's schedule, maybe we can come up with something through August at some point that works for everyone at this time, and then something else but I think we really need to reconsider when we might be available to meet. And the other thing that concerns me, and I am one that did not put this is planning board meets on Wednesday evenings at, I believe, seven, but it might be 630 so if there is a zoning by law amendment that makes it to the process where we're holding a joint hearing, we have to be available for a planning board meeting on Wednesdays. And it looks like right now only one person is available on Wednesday evenings or checked that they were. I am one that did not when planning board hearings for zoning amendments come through I can make myself available. And hopefully others can potentially do that too so we at least have a quorum of our committee. If this happens, it's also another reason to say, we need to do these more discreetly and not regularly if we as a committee have problems making a quorum at that time. But I would love to hear people's thoughts on what might be able to be possible for or what we think we should do for either the next couple of meetings into May and June, or in general, Steve. So I have a question so five out of five of us indicated that we're free now for this meeting. And so this, but this time slot. Got the least amount of votes is, but did people change other things to become available for this particular meeting or is this meeting out for some structural reason is this time slot out for structural reasons. Anyone care to respond to that. I think I was one that indicated I was available. I have Lynn and then Evan, but I'm going to take Evan before Lynn. So Evan. So I don't think I indicated I was available necessarily starting at 830 and I think part of that is by law review committee used to meet at 830 and that was always just to you. I was never on my game at 830 and often was late to that I'm not a morning person. So I could do this but I'm not saying that you'd have the best version of me. But I do know and I don't want to speak for her because she's not here but I had a conversation with Sarah who indicated that mornings are really tough for her because she has farm chores to do in the mornings and so she she expressed a desire to be able to meet later in the day. But maybe that's changed she's not here to speak for herself but I do remember having that conversation with her. Lynn. Yeah, two things. One of the things I think that many each other, we need to take up with Paul and Christine, but Brestrup is whether or not there might be an opportunity to start moving some of these discussions forward with the planning board. The second thing is the only reason to consider mornings are whenever is we are trying to space the committees out because of the demands upon staff for particularly right now while we're doing virtual. I have not heard anything from Sarah. So I don't know whether that's the issue going on. I couldn't tell you the 10 to 1230 timeframe on Tuesdays that had four or five available I think Sarah was available for that I think it was Evan that was not available during that that frame. And I think it was Sarah that was not available on the 10 to 1030 but then at 1030 I became unavailable and assuming GOL moves to that time, or stays at that time. I don't know if it's available every other week but if GOL changes times or if we were to stagger I would become available on Wednesdays but that still meant, I think Sarah was unavailable in that 10 to noon on Wednesday time slot so I'm not sure we can find a regular time. We just have to for the next meeting at this point because we can't do it without a member present to be able to come up with a time, we might just have to pick a time or I might have to send a survey out for that but Steve you have your hand up. Yeah, if we keep meeting at this time at least until the end of the semester that would definitely be my preference but so for me there are certain times that I have a standing meeting every other week. So, it's like every other Wednesday I have another meeting at UMass that historically has been from 10 to 12, but then every other week I don't. So, but then it gets really complicated. But I think alternating with another committee is a possibility right so if GOL takes a certain time slot every other week. Is there overlap of membership? Yeah, yeah. So, I think I'm the only overlapping member on GOL TSO has Evan, are you the only overlapping TSO member. And finance we don't overlap at all I don't think. But we'd have to find it, if we did something like that, obviously the people would have to be available. So let's, let's keep this on for discussion for next meeting to see if we can come up with a time. And I will skip into the next meeting agenda preview now to just say, we probably won't have a meeting for a month. I don't think I don't perceive us having one in two weeks. Zoning bylaws will not be ready. What we discussed on the process will not have been as far as I know to planning board yet. If it is maybe we could the master plan review will not be have been to planning board yet in two weeks. We do have Shalini's wild animal act referral that that is up. And we do have outstanding a whole comprehensive housing policy. I might put that on a next meeting. I'm not, I think I will talk to Shalini on how we can potentially do a discussion. I, we were already in a prior setup of CRC having trouble framing a discussion, and on zoom I fear it might be even harder to frame a housing policy discussion and virtually so I have to think about and I'll talk to Shalini as vice chair about how we might be able to potentially move that forward but given the situation in the world now we might just not meet for four weeks. That would give staff a little bit of downtime for us but it would also allow us to regroup and come up with something so, but that would end up being what sort of on the agenda, when we do meet again. Which then takes us, I will take us back to minutes. And let me, we have draft minutes. I had a few changes so I have up on the screen now the ones that have my changes tracked and I will just page down to them. Shriver was misspelled twice, so a correction of Steve's name in two votes I think it was just switching the eye on the E, and then there was a word underneath see the, the, my cursors around it committee just was mistyped by accident. And I think those are the only up, and I had a verb tense on the third page suggested instead of suggest. And that was all I found. Did anyone else have any other changes to the minutes. Shalini. Oh, it's not pertaining to the minutes I can get. Sorry, did I miss something else. Let's get back to your hand. Yeah. Any other changes to minutes there with seeing none I will make the motion to accept the minutes as amended, or adopt the minutes as amended. Do I hear a second to that motion. Can I get a second from someone. Second. Thank you, and this motion will have to be by roll call. I will remind you that even if you weren't part of the meeting you can still vote to accept the minutes so that maybe we can get a past these, since we have a new and the two new members that are here today we're also at that meeting just not as members so that that does help. So I will start in alphabetical order that means we're starting with Evan. Yes. Steve. Yes. Shalini. Yes. And Mandy is a yes so that is for zero to accept the minutes. And then I will go back to Shalini. Yeah, I was wondering it at what point do we want to have some kind of discussion about recovery, you know, like, how are we going to help the people who are being affected with it's related to the housing and the other residents and businesses that have been affected. Would it be our committee that is looking into that and at what point should we start having those discussions or doing research or something while we're not meeting maybe look at other committee communities how what are they doing or what should we be doing it feels like we should be doing something at this point while we're waiting. Sorry, I had on mute. This really goes back to that earlier conversation Shalini, but I will tell you, because the chamber, particularly john page has been doing an enormous amount of research, and both Claudia and Kelly are linked into statewide groups, as well as national groups, and getting suggestions from them. We're just starting to have regular conversations, meaning in this case myself and Paul, as well as Dave Zomac, and the chamber and the bid are starting to have regular conversations and so I think we'll have a better answer for the question that you're asking which is absolutely the appropriate question. I think the commitment at this point is not only do we all need to just keep plowing ahead and getting through the worst of this. But more importantly, or just as importantly, frankly, we need to really be thinking about how we shape the future because bringing Amherst back to the thriving community that it was, and certainly was on the day that we all started shutting down is has got to be a primary and critical thing for the future of our town or our city otherwise known as the town, and also frankly for the future of our higher ed institutions. You know, we, we are a college town, we will become a college town again, the students and their parents will return, and the businesses that are now suffering at the level that they are, or frankly, may never reopen are a tragic effort or a tragic product of this whole effort that's been going on so as we rethink economic development, frankly, it takes on a whole new importance for our town it's not just economic development but it's resurgence. I know you think about this a lot as do many other members of the council and the town hall and will be coming forward with a way to do that and make sure that either council or individual committees are involved as as important as this is. Christine. You need unmute Christine. So I just wanted to let you know that the town manager has been in touch with the planning department through Dave Zomek, and Nate Maloy has been doing a lot of research he's very familiar with the Community Development Block Grant program, as well as he's been working on CPAC for a long time so he, he's doing a lot of research and he and Dave and the town manager are going to have a meeting either today or tomorrow to discuss what the options are with regard to those two sources of funds and there may be some other sources of funds through the federal and state government as well so we are doing a lot of research and trying to figure this out and we hope that you'll hear something from the town manager soon about that. Thank you. And it's this is Shalini's question was part of a next meeting agenda preview. Do anyone else have any questions thoughts on when we might need to meet next and what should be on that agenda. I'm not seeing any. I do not have going back to announcements. I do not have any announcements at this point. And does anyone have any items not anticipated 48 hours in advance. Yeah, I'm going to say, I think you should do the poll and get your next meeting sent because I think what this discussion is making very clear for me is that as we go forward with these discussions. There may be this may be a really terrific group to do some sounding with for some ideas. Obviously finances involved because the moment we start talking about CPAC and also the funds available. So maybe something in about two weeks versus a full month might be a good idea for just doing some brainstorming and maybe hearing a little bit about what Nate's been researching. I'm actually reversing your feelings about waiting four weeks if you don't mind me and Joe. I see you smiling. I'm sorry I'm smiling at you. No, that's fine. And I, a new item that is more pertinent to what we're doing on would certainly move me to having a meeting sooner rather than later I was looking at what I knew was coming up in terms of stuff, and that which I felt we could wait four weeks for that but something like this, I agree might not want to wait four weeks so I will work on a poll for potentially seeing if our meeting would have been two weeks from now at 830. I know Evan hates the 830 am I'm not much different, but maybe we can see if that works we are missing Sarah I want to make sure that whenever we have a next meeting. It works for her and that we can get her on this meeting because she is going to be a vital. Sounding board to along with the rest of our committee, given her experience in agriculture and farming and all in terms of recovery for this. So if that's the discussion, we absolutely need everyone at the meeting. Any other meeting agenda preview or items not anticipated. See none, I will then. First of all, thank Christine is still here thank you Christine for taking time out of your day to join us. I know you guys have quite busy days nowadays. And, and with that, I will adjourn our meeting at 1006 am. Hi, everyone. Thank you. Hi. Thank you everybody.