 You know in the Michael in the window where all the people's are the video. There's a participant chat and then share screen record reaction Yeah, yeah, my thing is I managed to do it Yeah, do you see do you see my screen now? That's right. Yep. I do. I got you Okay, I guess you see the screen that the screen that I'm looking at it says send calm Laura at the top Yep. Yeah, great. So I I managed it stupid user day Right, so did I put my name there? Okay. My name is Michael The name of the project is send calm or there's Yeah, the name of the project. Let's just Keep it simple. It's send calm and it's basically I think I can draw on here This is a send calm device That's what it looks like and If you can if you obviously many of us have used a raspberry pi before and there's the concept of hardware attached on top or HAT In short and the send calm device here is an H HAT for For a raspberry pi devices All right, so Going back then Going back then to my I don't think I can switch back and forth from cameras Maybe I think everyone knows what a raspberry pi looks like if you look in the I'm not sure if you can see that. Yeah. Yeah, the one you can see the camera. Yeah Yeah, so anyway, so if you can imagine This HAT device Being plugged on top of a raspberry pi that's kind of what happens. I unfortunately am not prepared to demonstrate this But I do have a series of pictures here to show the device So that's how we're going to do this announcement of the project and on another day. Hopefully if luther invites me back Then we'll do a more comprehensive Demonstration that may be more than 15 minutes will take a half hour or longer The one thing that's a bit surprising Is that some devices like this? What is this called? Forgot the name of this thing It's a eon Forgot the name so a raspberry pi hats do fit on other computing devices and this is what we'll probably be testing Going for this going forward. This is what a Send com panel looks like this is a bare pcb With four send com devices there. You can see on the back that there are no parts to Assemble on the back. There's just some gold contacts, which are test points Actually, it's upside down Gold contacts, which are test points and there's no otherwise no parts that go on the bottom layer of the pcb the top layer of the pcb if i get That's where all the parts go And if you can imagine, okay It plugs into the raspberry pi 40 pin connector on that side and once you populate this panel Then it begins to look like the device photographs, which i'm showing over here I can enlarge that so we take a look at the device self So this is a send com device What i do want to show is that there are two different formats. We're going to do um one see So there's we're going to call one the send com E d u and we're going to call one d e v So this is a d e v Because i'll make that a different color This is a d e v model Because it has a battery connector It has a usb circuit it has a External antenna sma connector a chip antenna It has a larger mcu And it has a secure element So there's a number of features which if you remove them you end up with a With a edu device, which is kind of a Uh a minimal device lacking all of these features and we're hoping to make these available Um to universities And some research institutions Right so um going back to the Going back to the overview here Once you plug that into a raspberry pi and we've been we've made it so that um so that raspberry pi uh cases Fit very well, so we want this to be self-contained It possibly in a weatherproof case because as we all know laura laura when Works really well outside in forests and natural environments. In fact What I was so happy to see in ben's presentation of the community Compost device is that I can imagine that the community compost device would work very well in picnic areas in public areas parks Places outside cities where actually there's no internet connectivity It might be a good use for a device like the like the uh the sencom that we're doing So it might be good to combine for example sencom with community Compost Device right this is just one of the applications of uh what we can do with sencom um Similar to the community compost. This is non-commercial sencom is a non-commercial project And it's a very small team And uh, we're just getting started in the distribution. So we'll probably be sending out dozens or hundreds of devices to Groups for example like uh nyu the new york university in shan shanghai um Hopefully I can get some devices out to a hacker space sg as well because I think there's a lot of enthusiastic people who like open Source hardware and open interfaces things like sub gigahertz low power long range devices Anyway, here's another photograph of the sencom device taken from a different angle And so at this point uh because I'm not prepared to demonstrate it I'll take questions and then we'll do a quick run over of the project. It's repository Uh the blog some information that's online But before we move away from the uh hardware itself Does anybody have questions about if it's for layer if fabrication is simple where to find the source any questions at all Before we do our next five to ten minute Uh a stretch and then I'll And I have a question. What is it? Was it the four? It I have seen a circuit board Okay, yeah this send com device once you plug it into a raspberry pi you can access it over the urt connector and Command it to send laura packets to a laura wan gateway So it can transmit Sensor collected data Basically any data we can transfer transmit a simple number if you wish To other send com devices to other laura devices and to laura wan gateways So what you saw before in ben's presentation for example using things speak As uh the collector of data You need a transmitter To send the data from the community composter To the things speak server somewhere in the world. There needs to be a transmitter either an ethernet transmitter or a wifi transmitter And if you're not internet connected it can be a laura wan transmitter Do you understand how this fits into the picture then because this laura wan transmitter? Which we called send com can collect the data from a community composter And send it to uh things speak over a laura wan Network does that answer your question? well, so i'm aware of the uh The mqtt for example and the esp 32 have laura integration on the chip. So so there's nothing more needed Would this just be the same thing or or how does it different from the esp with a laura? So i'm not aware of esp chips that have an integrated laura wan a laura transceiver That's something new to me Well, it's just the module right? It's a module. It's the size of a normally esp module Uh with the pins and then usb port and everything and has laura They cost about 30 dollars or something Yes, that's right. So i i'm going to rephrase your question And i'm going to say uh is the send com device the only um such Hat or module in the worst that in the world that allows uh a laura developer to transmit data over laura networks And the answer is no there are a lot of other similar hats modules shields and such devices and and at least one fits on uh esp developer kit And um can do the same exact thing that the send com does in fact If you uh bridge these two pins here Which are the uart connected connection? It's a rx and tx root transmit and you connect that to an esp And esp 32 whatever Then you end up with exactly what you're talking about Ah, that's another way to answer the question Any other questions before I Let me just paraphrase the the thing the utility of the thing you built here is that it's uh It's a a a uh physical box which could have a hard drive and it could be a server And it could run the mqtt and it could be the gateway for the network for for uh for other things Where maybe cheaper devices having sensors Is that one way of of using this thing? Yeah, that is one way of using it is to combine this on an esp device Or we've made it to fit very nicely with our asbury pie But it can be used with a bbc micro bit or an arduino or any number of devices that can that can communicate over serial For example rs 232 or uart connectors That's how the esp 32 developer kits can uh use laura and laura when devices over their serial connector So that is one way to think of it. Do you have a price point of this board with the components? What does it cost to assemble? Okay, yeah, uh, so let me then I I need to go to the next So for the advantage of laura compared to ethanette et cetera or the Or the sick fox or whatever network is that this laura you can have a connection point to point Or mesh, which is you don't need a license, right? You don't need to To pay anyone to To laura device can talk to each other without any Any license to pay, right? It's you create your own laura thing, right? That's right brahiem. Uh so so from that from that point of view is that Uh, if we look at the case of singapore is laura already, um, validated in singapore and everything else, right? Well, I don't know that much about singapore I know that almost all well-developed areas in the world and the singapore is obviously included in this Have uh airwaves licensing Regulation, you know, there's you're allowed to Start a wi-fi access point because this is an ism band of 2.4 gigahertz ism stands for instrumentation and medical Instruments and science airwaves. So a person who buys an uh an access point on 2.4 gigahertz doesn't need to pay a license fee It's the same thing with laura when laura when is using in many parts of the world approximately 900 megahertz This is unlicensed airwaves The license fees you were talking about before with sick fox is a different thing. That's I I think Starting to talk about that we will get confused partially because i'm not so knowledgeable in sick fox Just that uh laura the laura similarities. The laura is uh in asia is uh 433 Why in europe is uh, let's say eight six eight six eight. I just read from the web the So it means that the chip that you have on that board Is also compatible everywhere. All these laura chip actually Have a kind of configuration that will us will allow us to use them easily in singapore Yes, the answer to the question is if this device is able to transmit laura modulated radio at all of these different uh worldwide Frequencies the answer is yes. It's user configurable and it's very easy It makes it easy for you It basically asks you at the very beginning of its menu Which area are you in and is this the frequency that you want? So it's kind of built into all the different layers application layer that the user sees on the screen The modulation layer that the transceiver is modulating at Those frequencies are all part of this And brahimi you're right that most of asia does Typically use 433 for the frequency. This is a problem for us When we have different frequencies such as 915 megahertz, which is north america Uh 868 which is eu All of these frequencies you can see they're Close to 900 megahertz. So these type of antennas which are made for 900 megahertz transmission when you start to When you start to tell it to transmit at 400 megahertz transmission You can imagine it doesn't work very well And that's the limitation that you're also asking about will these devices successfully Work in asian environments which typically use 433 megahertz. I think they won't but I think So when you buy a laura wind device, I did this for an esp 32 once it came from asia to my door in eu And it I immediately could tell that the antenna resonated at 400 megahertz It would work But only if I was communicating with other devices in the same room because the You know, it still works, but you will you will have terrible range. Does that make sense brahimi? Yeah, okay. I just want to to check because uh You know if you push such a device Let's say in singapore for university school, etc We should be quite sure that you know things are working properly also that the i'm not a Radio i matter like some of our colleague who are part of the The hacker web but some of our colleague have friends. I would say colleague You know, uh, no more about the regulation. I think in singapore Uh, we have to be very careful. But you know, what do we emit at what frequency? Uh, the rules are a bit more strict than uh elsewhere Yeah, well, I think there's lots of us I'm sure when you when you present your you know, the tools the github the api We can we can you know see the the kind of uh compatibility later with with asia Uh potential customers for us to you know, we we can buy some of those boards Especially that a lot of us have a raspberry pi's around so actually it'd be nice to create a mesh Yeah, exactly. There's there's a lot of uses for laura and laura way in technology like uh Like catastrophes when the internet is not working because of whatever emp In any case, um before we stop talking about frequencies I'm not sure which countries in asia are um Are usually Are commonly using 430 megahertz, but only out of practice I believe that china for example does have a 900 megahertz band That is licensed or not, you know unlicensed and you can use it I'm not so clear about that yet for obvious reasons. We're mostly focusing on the approximately 900 megahertz bands It's actually impossible without making two different Uh, uh circuit Circuits to serve these two frequencies So it's a problem that we have identified brahiem Just like you have mentioned and we're working on it But we don't know how to solve it in the best way any other questions. Do you have a question luther? Yeah, so no, i'm good. I think uh In our zoom chat that uh, uh, a few years ago, uh deep require permit for laura frequencies Yeah Yeah, so it it's it's certainly not so easy to control Our design to work in every city of the world to understand. They're changing legal jurisdictions One year one is going to switch from 868 to 900 the next year we 915 other regions will switch at 433 That's a problem that we definitely will always have just like all of the other manufacturers All right, so i'm going to switch to to my browser now to explain where to get more information First, let's take a look at if you're not so knowledgeable at with laura wan in particular It's rather easy to find sites just by simply searching for laura and laura wan Here's another one activity has a lot of general purpose information and documents laura wan. What is it? And you can take a look at here key benefits, etc. Then there is a site There's a wikipedia site This is a bit difficult to Get my screen to anyway, all right, so um, this is the wikipedia site for Um laura and laura wan. I'll just mention one one thing to take to understand laura is the Modulation controlled by a company called Semtech it's partially open source, but not all of it is laura wan is the specification. I believe it's fully open source Which uh, is no longer this is not peer-to-peer as brachy, but no I can't remember who asked about peer-to-peer But when two devices communicate with each other without any gateway in between then you are not doing laura wan You are doing laura instead between those two devices. So that's one important distinction and go to the next one is Here is a things network another important site to look at things network. This is kind of similar to To ben's things speak, but this is simply a transport. This is just about communication. This is not about collecting and uh displaying data So these are the type of sites that you might want to look at if you're trying to get a general Impression of what laura is and what it isn't and if you want a specific impression about the project the sencom project Is being hosted by the company called your opa lab devices Oh, uh, and I believe this is german. I apologize How can I quickly change the Here maybe yeah And so you can explore the different Projects there's very few at this time. There's a few Projects which are not open source And this one is open source. So this is a democratic send com project And these are this is basically where we do our work and commit our Changes to This is jip dot your opa lab dot com for all of those people who would like to download a key cad project for example, I'll just Show you through the different areas you can look at the firmware there. Let's take a look at what applications we're We're interested in in showing for the first time Here's a peer-to-peer application. You need two sent com devices to have this peer-to-peer application work um, a laura wan ot a or on the over the air Registration style application is here. Here's just a hello world. This is all the firmware Software we're not producing software software is what would run in a in a web interface or a mobile phone or a macintosh What do they call it? cobalt Carbon all of this stuff is software And this project does not include requirements for any software at all So the way to use these applications, for example in the firmware In the firmware directory is by connecting your raspberry pi and accessing it over the serial interface This is what's going to Interest most people is the hardware Sub directory. This is where for example I'm gonna have to clean this up a bit There's too many files, but this is where you have your ds com profile here. This is a project for key cad you have our master Schematic which is a sch file And you have some for example, here's the master layout The key cad dot pcb Now because if if I click on some of these files, then all you end up with is difficult to read raw text This is will take a little bit to load. This is what you see. It's a very long file It's not so useful. You can kind of understand a little bit about this here But you can't see any any traces or graphics So if you're interested in the hardware Then there is a Michael another three more minutes it comes in a time, but you can you know hang out later Right. Okay. I will Finish this up quickly then. Why is this now? I'll just move on. I guess I was hoping to It's hoping to show the pdf If I lost my connection what's happening here All right, so this is a different website. It's me mainly the blog. This is new zero the lab.com and most of the status reporting Is about this project democratic sun com so you can see there's about 10 entries which are all about this Project, this is another place to get your information. This is news dot the lab dot com An example of how this looks to the user Is here and now I think by him you can more fully understand When you're choosing the band And it doesn't show the screen where you choose the frequency and band unfortunately. I thought it would so I'm sorry about that um, the last Is okay. This is doc which is not well developed. I don't have the documents there yet And we're also developing a workshop like a training or educational environment for the advice here So these are kind of the project specific areas that people can try to look at if they're interested in more information about The device this one which seems to have crashed Interesting, okay, so I think I'm done speaking about the project. This was an announcement of the democratic cent com And I didn't do any demonstrations, but I hope that if there is time on another day on another Meeting that I will be able to do to demonstrate the device. Are there any questions about the project? Yeah, I think possibly has a question possibly was possibly you're there Uh, yes, uh, no, actually I was just reminding, uh, I think Someone asked about the price just now the price point I'm sorry. Yeah We can we didn't so so what So it is in this repository, which seems to Seems I don't know why it's not responding So the the bill of materials. Okay, here it is. Let's try one more time. I'll try to do this within a minute That's going very slow Maybe there's so many people that are interested in the project They're all bombarding the Okay, here it is. So we have the Bill of materials here And if you take a look, uh, there is no pdf. Let's go back to the pdf of variants the print here And the bill of materials is a pdf file and this is kind of the nice representation. It shows you The bill of materials that will make this larger say about 200 percent And you can see the different parts, which is the traditional bill of materials the The design designators at the very bottom, uh, you can see that there's 63 unique parts with 110 parts Total quantity and at the very right hand side, you can see some of the Costs so for a person who buys exactly one Of one inductor One antenna connector one resistor for all of these different parts Then you end up with the highest cost of 48 euros total net cost For a person who buys enough to make 1000 devices and obviously the total net cost goes way down So does this answer the question of what the parts cost of this device is? Or is there another question about the cost like assembly? Uh, is there any question about costs and prices? Yeah, what's what's the estimate like a full board like that, uh, which which can sit on a Raspberry Pi? How much are we looking at? Right, if you make this yourself, which means there is no assembly cost because you're using a A tweezers to assemble it by yourself and you pay for all of the parts Then the cost is about 50 euros If you make several at the same time or you don't need to buy all of the All of the parts because you have some in your lab already and obviously the price goes down If a person like probably I'm not sure we're going to commercialize this if we do and we will obviously Uh, we will obviously, uh, produce 100 to 1000 of these devices at once and that price will come down to I assume Uh, it will it would have cost us probably 20 euros in parts and another 10 or 15 euros in assembly costs The reason that assembly is so expensive fozly is because we have some BGA in there We have a BGA Half millimeter pin to pin pitch with 88 balls, which is kind of challenging But that's kind of a rundown of the costs. Does that make sense to you? Or do you think your cost if you were making this device fozly in singapore would it be higher or lower? No idea That's a clear answer I guess if if all the files are available on your github someone load it into a key card key card has a Some sort of plug-in to actually talk to some Um, whatever gb gb pcb or whatever in china and then you know You know, someone could assess how much it actually cost Uh, you know to really get the board being done Sold it and tested somehow You know, so I guess we could estimate Uh, but somehow like clearly it would be less than 50 euro because That would be like, you know us soldering a bga, etc. So First of all, yeah, we sold bg. I think we need some proper equipment I would like to know The choice of those of those components Compared to alternatives because there are some hat Laura hats for For raspberry pi already if I google a bit I find two So what would be the advantage to to use? That you know your your board versus another one which is already on seed Whatever all these famous Like like website. Do you have like a you know, like a like a specific aspect that that that would convince people to say Oh, I want this one More than others Let's say the chip the chip is an s6 When I read laura, they all say s6 Uh 12 78 so I assume that all all of these boards are using the same chips um Um, I'm not sure if the guy is online, but there's there's someone I follow on twitter Who's really into laura in singapore? So I think this is the person we could you know try to make you in contact Uh, I don't know the name darling Can you get me my phone? My mobile phone, please Uh, I follow one guy on twitter You know and he's very laura. I read all these all these uh, yeah. Yeah loop. Yeah loop check. Yeah. Yeah So that's someone say on the chat It's okay. It's okay It's okay. It's okay. Uh, yeah loop loop Chinese someone in singapore who's really into uh loop chen so really oh, yeah No, it's not online tonight, but uh, it's someone who's really into laura Something you see someone really, uh You know if you if you try to push this in singapore or have some kind of uh, that that would be nice to Even create a workshop or something like that that that should uh, you know, how I think get plugged You know it convinced people to uh, not not everybody's uh I mean I for one don't sold the surface mount stuff. So I will have to you know, either you buy it or Or you get someone to To solder it for you Yeah, we did have the conversation for a short time on telegram about uh, what type of vendors and distributors in asia Are good to approach for selling your own Uh maker space style hardware, uh like this So and fosley had a comment about that I think there's people more knowledgeable than me when it comes to distribution and sales I think if someone like me is interested in a car like this, uh I would like to be sure that you know, I plug the thing on my raspberry pi The driver, I mean, you know, you can have a couple of lines of command to install the driver And then suddenly like, you know, you buy two and you and you can make them talk Talk to each other One thing is sure that laura is Uh, you create your network. So that's one of the the great advantage of it. But in terms of Of range in turn of of uh, of bandwidth Latency these are I think parameters that people should be uh, uh aware when when they step into the laura Ecosystem and and and world in a sense, um Because I would assume that this has less bandwidth than wi-fi And in terms of range, it's actually, you know, better than wi-fi, I guess, uh, if I'm not wrong Brazil Yeah, so I have a question Different from hi. I'm gp here. I have a question. So, uh, slightly different from what The question may ask. Okay. I've briefly just went in and take a look that laura people do Joe positioning with laura. So, um, I would like to hear from you if You have any experience on this that you would like to share. Thank you Sure gp, but I I don't understand the specific question. I would like to share information for you Joe, what is the question? Joe positioning that means I using laura to actually, uh, to to Let you know what this device are where it is, uh, it's located Geo positioning, you know, now I understand the question. So this device the sencom does not have, um Does not have a receiver a gps receiver It does not have that doesn't have, uh, things that are useful for geo positioning So what you would need to do is combine this With, uh, whatever you use for geo positioning What we're not trying to solve are specific problems like forestry altitude weather balloons Heating tsunami detection, we're not really trying to focus on geo positioning or, uh, combining to with microwave links or We're trying to make this available for Institutions like universities who then take the device And discover its specifications. They put it to use in their legal environments like 900 megahertz and they develop, uh, work Work groups now they develop, um The pipes Track classes and so on using this hardware So we will definitely create a user manual and a few things like that But we don't have the resources to explore individual applications like geo positioning But maybe you gp lee, uh, tphe would, uh, liked if you're close to the, uh, Singapore hacker space You might be able to find one there I'm hoping to make them available there And then you could do the work that is meaningful to you if you like an application like geo positioning Maybe you could combine the send com device with whatever geo positioning tools that you're already using Do you think that's realistic? Yeah, I think so because My initial thought is that the signal itself may May help in, uh, fighting out the location device So it's actually it is actually it's based on the the gps signal itself instead of the six foot signal Yeah, but I I don't think that's the case with laura went so, uh, triangulation of wi-fi of 2.4 gigahertz Um signals has been attempted and works well sometimes bluetooth is known as well to allow for some triangulation Um because usually you have a constant wave So your modulated signal is going forever Unfortunately with laura when we have what we call a chirp protocol So we have a a wave here. We have a piece of a scion wave there a new one there You know and then 10 seconds go by And then we have another piece these are chirps right and Because we're not transmitting all the time like a continuous wave It makes triangulation of these devices extremely difficult Does that make sense? So i'm not sure if laura when itself can be used for geo positioning Then this is why so many laura when transceivers are accompanied with the gps transceiver that is on the same pcb If any of you have a laura when transceiver at home for esp or whatever It's really common to see a gps transceiver located next to that for exactly this application Understand, okay. Thank you Any other questions or shall we go back to luther? Yeah, um, I think uh, you know, I I think it's a very very interesting discussion I think for both talks, you know, there's a lot of audience participation And I we definitely have gone uh gone past that look at the time, but you know, I think um Uh, let's say I'll let you guys have to actually end the session because we actually had When I overstretched quite a little bit, but you know, that's a short, you know, the zoom the zoom The zoom session you will still be in place. You can hang out. You can you know, uh, Michael Benjamin, I think, you know, I encourage you all to turn on your cameras because you want to make even though This is actually a virtual zoom meetup. You want to make it, you know, as you know realistic as a physical meetup as close to that as possible Right and so thank you very much everyone for your time and for your fantastic discussions and you know, if you have not already Our oh, hi. Oh, that's you. Hi. I see I'm not in the camera And uh, yeah, if you have not joined our telegram or our discord group Please, you know, feel free to actually join a group and definitely also our physical So, thank you everyone. Yeah, please hang out and chill and I think um For anybody who has questions for michael, please carry on. Yeah. Thank you Thank you Great you good meet up nice. Thank you. Okay. Bye. Bye So far michael, uh Try to register to the to our Uh discord, maybe server hacker Yeah We can We can yeah, create some laura and mash in singapore Yeah, yeah Yeah, I already brahima i'm already on the telegram channel and I believe discord is just a bridge So there's no need to register there as well on the telegram thing. Okay If you can share your your your slides or your the links on the telegram group we can repost on facebook and stuff Okay Right This you you want you want this Uh Slide this. Okay. Sure. I think I can do that. It's a good idea. I didn't think of that firstly, but it's a good idea Put the image so we can advertise it through through our web or facebook Yeah, yeah, I will do it Yeah, but um, so actually michael just to follow on your process now you were are you looking for uh, what's this called distribution channels for this like, you know people who are who are like seed or I don't know. Uh, I brought up citron in the telegram chat Is that yeah fuzzly, uh, I I Because we're doing so much work to produce the devices now and we need to serve universities and research institutes Uh first then that's why we haven't Focused or were made a distribution plan for commercial environments like seed like 12 geeks And so on but the answer to your question Are we interested in distribution? In commercial environments is definitely yes What I would like say in two three months Is to have At least I'll reach out to say 10 distributors And I'm hopeful that at least three maybe even four or five of them Request a package of devices Minimum order quantity let's say 50 Let's say a couple of them will request 200 I can produce up to a thousand And they receive them put them up for sale in 12 geeks. And that's my Very overview level generic, uh hope for the commercialization. Does that make sense? Do you think that's practical? Um, yeah, of course So, I mean that's uh, yeah, I just wanted you to put it out there and I don't know anyone else who is on this chat or so maybe could think about it Yeah, so I think uh, I'm not was sharing that, you know, there's false easier coming up So I think that's another I'm not sure that Michael you're aware of false Asia It's a conference open source conference in Asia Yeah, so I think that's uh Yeah, so I think there's another possible platform for you to actually, you know, create publicity and more awareness Luther, do you know when the next fast Asia is taking place? I think very soon much is it much much. I think, uh, what's his name must Roller Roller Is it rolling in here rolling was in here just now he was in here. Yeah, but he left Yeah, do you know if the what's called called for papers are closed really? I think it's on facebook you send a reminder Okay. Yeah, maybe we can send Michael the link. Yeah I that's nice fazley, but I know Hong Fook very well and mario as well. I think they're So, um, I'm very well in touch with them. In fact, one of the the ideas we've had Uh is to make a send-com format device for not only raspberry pi but for their pocket science lab of psl device Which they are Distributing for example, I think on 12 geeks. You can buy the pocket science lab And it has gpio connectors and the uart connector that would be very easy to make a send-com device for that So there's all kinds of reasons to get involved with false asia and to try to you bring these two projects together Right. In fact, I've talked to mario about this. So the very first Mentions have been made but it's good to know if it's march, you know, if it's coming up false asia again Maybe I should hurry up Right. Yeah. Yeah, maybe you can do your full display there As a follow-up. Yeah, not not just the 20 people in heck where Yeah, well somebody I can't remember if it was yubraheem or somebody mentioned there is a person very, uh in-depth Involved in laura-wan in singapore and you wanted to have me contact them or the other way around So I wrote my name on the telegram channel now That's one of the ways that you can pass my information onto them. We really appreciate if you did that I don't know this person. Uh, let me get my phone. I really like singapore Yeah Oh I have a question for you. Are there any university environments higher education style Institutions in singapore that I might be able to meet a professor In order to send them a package of 20 30 50 devices and they use them in a classroom environment Can anybody give me a couple names of universities? Well, there's only like three universities in singapore Yeah, so I I mean there's NUS and NTU. Uh, yeah, you can approach them um Yeah, but we'll find out the exact Um professors who you can get in touch with Which are the school will be good? Yeah, NUS and NTU I'm not on telegram Hacker hacker where telegram is is kind of work now Um So, yeah, I will add myself and then I'll send those link. Uh for cegia It's uh 13 to 21st of march to 2021 So I guess it's gonna be online over over a few days Uh, uh, yeah to be honest because it's going to be online. I think it's going to be a massive amount of of people Painting it because they don't have to be physically Yeah, it was a video Michael a one question for you does Um, do all boards with laura use the same chip or do they have many different manufacturers? I know the same tech and Is it other than any other chips produces? Yeah, if you ask that question one year ago I would have said there is only semtech manufactured laura chips on the market Um, but even that question You have the sx 1276 which is only useful for one channel So this is what most laura nodes are built on the semtech sx 1276 If you have a gateway it needs to listen and transmit on eight to 16 channels at once So it's a different chip, but it's also from semtech. Semtech is kind of the monopoly figure in laura land However, since 2020 in fact, I think maybe 2021 Is the first year that st micro Um is creating. Let's see if I get this right. It's called the st m 32 w l e 5 And this Contains zero semtech technology It's all st. This is a really really hot device Um for a number of reasons. I mean There's presentations that go on for hours about the device because it's packed with so many interesting features Stm 32 w l e 5 is one example of a non semtech laura modulation transceiver. It's combined with a mcu The one that we're using is also a very new chip. It's called the uh Running out of space. It's called the micro chip sam r 34 And as I tried to draw before this is laura Plus mcu. This is So this is semtech as x 12 76 plus cortex Zero That's one long-winded answer to your question fosley. Okay. Well, that's good to know that it's expanding yeah, so Funny funny you mentioned Sd microelectronics because some guy just walked in my office this afternoon from sd microelectronics Unannounced and he's like, oh, I want to buy a What do you want to buy? Oh some some haters for his aduino Yeah, so I don't know will you like to get in touch with sd microelectronics? Well, sd microelectronics is sponsoring some of our parts on the parts list So we're already in touch with them. But if you think that the office in singapore Has interest in this project in order to move it or migrate from microchip to st for example Then yeah, we could consider these types of things have a new version I'm not sure if you said st micro or semtech. No, I'm getting mixed up sd micro sd micro Yeah, right. We actually have no offering that integrates st micro technology yet But we have received a load of chips from them and the next there will be at least a design I'm not sure when that will appear because it takes so long to test these things That will include st micro Technology feel free to tell your contact that and you know if they want to know what's taking so long Or if we need extra help or if they want to learn about laura wan in general and all of these things are are You know what interests us as well? Okay uh One more question. Do you know of any like successful commercial projects which are built on laura already right now? um I mean, how can I answer that question? I I do know of one in england. It's called low pi they're kind of building a laura wan stack in python and making it easy for users to hook up their devices to laura wan by buying a low pi transceiver So They're possibly they're quite a lot of these. Um, they're they're actually quite a lot of such projects that are either gateways or modes or something similar And I can't really list them all there's just way too many and i'm not familiar with them because i'm working on sencom And not on low pi Yeah, no, no as in my question is more on on the application level not on the network level Uh, that's another good question. So, uh, what type of applications are suitable? For example, uh transmitting the The uh volume of a trash can is an application which is a real world problem and has been solved At least one or two companies. None of these are doing it in an open source manner So you can't download archives of key CAD design but um when a trash can Will you know like a smart trash can fills up? Then you want to know if it's full or not and these trash cans are put in all kinds of places in the world Lots of these are in you know on ships in the middle of the atlantic. You have a trash can you still want to know if it's full or not That's when you use non-internet technology and laura wan is a great application Level transport for this type of application. That's why I mentioned that the community compost Project could possibly make use of a send-com like we could somehow Unify the projects is just kind of a thinking out loud situation. I wonder if ben is still there Does ben have an answer to the question? partially that fosley just made such as when the Community compost fills up and it's in a for example a public area like a forest So it has no internet connectivity. How does it send its data to the thingspeak server? All right, is it going to use laura wan or something else six fox maybe or lte? What is it called? I assume it's just wi-fi But there is in there isn't a wi-fi in forests because in uh I think those I mean he's uh He's whatever box is actually close to the cc or something. So he's probably tapping into the wi-fi Yeah, I don't think in singapore someone is paying A six fox for something like this unless there's a lot of money So I think it's the prototype proof of concept and then you tap into the wi-fi close to the the community center and and then it just This project is not not already But I think actually ben actually gave a talk about laura before he did a project on it So probably he could uh integrate it I think at some point whatever you want to talk to the cloud you need some internet and somewhere it has to be a private or A box somewhere that someone has to pair and so the cost is there But I would say the no because all of us have uh, I mean we have We have esp you know in every box everywhere. Yeah So everywhere now. Yeah, it's like, you know, uh, we're buying another raspberry pi picot. Yeah Have you got the name? No, no, uh, but I mean It would be nice to experiment with you know having two at least Uh, I'm interested to know the the stack on the raspberry pi. Is it already fully developed? uh up to a point where we can Link everything with the with any c program or python all the binding is already already there Uh, yeah, but you have the wrong perspective. It's not very easy to understand but this mcu Right here. It's actually able to work without a raspberry pi So all of the firmware that you develop using a c compiler downloading the source code It's going directly to the mcu. It's not going to run on a laurel and stack on the raspberry pi That's another difference The mcu is talking to a raspberry pi through the spi interface, right? Through the serial interface rx and tx Yeah, I think it's just to send data You are So on the raspberry pi, uh Okay, okay. Okay, so it's like a like a basic modem Okay, like the like the modem that's right And that's what allows us to abstract this software layer or the stack as you say from arduino Which would require obviously a completely different stack than raspberry pi ESP is tencelica, but the next esp will use risk You see so if we if we were Doing the software on the host it would require us to to maintain a whole bunch Maybe even a dozen of different architectures and so on and by doing it this way by running everything on the mcu We can just attach a battery to this device brain. We don't even have a host. There is no esp 32 There's no raspberry pi which is out of battery on here And it works and it can be integrated into a smart trash can or a lamp post Or all of these different devices out in the open which have no internet connectivity But the information still goes through the uat. So after the uats you have to deal with it one one other It doesn't need to go through the uart right you can gather data directly on this board It has an als an ambient light sensor a thermistor so you can generate data on the board And transmit it over mora when and there is absolutely no host that controls it or gives it data Because all of the data is generated on the board. That's just one of the use cases Most people Data on their esp 32 or their raspberry pi They will send in numbers or colors or encoded information and that's what they want to transmit That's the standard use case, but it's not mandatory. This device can be standalone You can connect a battery to it and it works without any host I Michael I see like there's a usv port or something on the bottom right hand corner of it. Um, maybe not this uh spring Let's see. Yes. I think this is the best picture where you show where it shows the usv. Is that there's a power port or? um, it yes, it um, it It can be used to power the device It can also transmit data to the vice so you can flash the for these are all advanced features which we have not implemented yet so if Like I mentioned before there are two versions of the device. I think it's I wrote it somewhere else, but there is the edu which has no usb port and there's a dev This has all of the features All right, so this has this has the Uh usb it has the battery. It has a larger mcu. It has a sma connector. It comes with the antenna it has a secure element And if we commercialize the dev model for example at 12 geeks or uh, there's a pocket science lab style commercialization Then we will uh implement enough logic into the usb port to at least allow it to power the device and communicate Like the uart serial connector does Does that answer your question? Yep. Yep. Yes Regarding power, uh this battery here This actually um does not power the entire device It only backs up The the configuration and the data on the device so that if you disconnect it from a raspberry pi that your data is still Is not erased All right, and the other power options are through the the raspberry pi connector Um, and then there are some test points as well, which are useful for powering the device And we don't really have a feature a hardware feature like a lithium Battery which you can recharge. These are circuits which could could go on the back of the board, but we have to we have to kind of Stop implementing some time and and turn to maintenance and support So we have not developed any rechargeable lithium battery pack Yeah For geo positioning for example the thing the application that gpe is so interested in would be very very useful To have a battery pack on there And we're all hackers. So if you go to 12 to singapore sg hacker space As soon as it opens again, then there's really easy ways to hack one of these devices to become Portable and mobile and hang it off of weather balloon or put it on your bicycle So that's what one reason that all of the parts are very large so that you have the option to solder onto them and to attach new and Power supplies, you know power energy harvesting whatever you need. You can probably do it Okay Well, okay. I think I have to go off. So uh, thanks michael Uh, if anyone Uh, it's actually bedtime Yeah, I have to put my kids to sleep. I actually have another meeting after this So nice to see you again. Um, hope to see you. Um, maybe next Hackware you can join Yeah, or maybe at a false agent Yeah, that's my plan. I'll see you. I'll see you all. Thanks a lot for coming