 Hello and welcome to NewsClick. The World Health Assembly concluded this Monday and Tuesday, that is the 18th and 19th of May. And unlike many other assemblies in the past, there was a lot of drama around this particular meeting. There was a lot of discussion around COVID-19, the blame game especially by the U.S. continued against China. To discuss more about this, we have with us Ambassador Kevadrik Kumar. Thank you so much for joining us. So first of all, the most important news that has come out from this World Health Assembly, which is the managing body for the World Health Organization, is that there's going to be some kind of probe on the origins of COVID-19. Now many media organizations are spinning this as some kind of an implicit charge against China. So is that really what transpires? Thank you for inviting me to this program. Well, there is surely a lot of propaganda on this, on when it concerns China, it's inevitable, especially in the western media. But you know the fact of the matter is that this resolution signifies a consensus. That's very important to understand. This consensus was reached on Monday and this consensus reflects China's support for this resolution. So this is far from an anti-China resolution. This is a resolution which China is supporting. And its sponsors include Russia. And you can very, very imagine that Russia would never do and never indulge in an anti-China ganging up at this point in time in world politics. So that notion, that lie, blatant lie, let us set aside. As far as the second point that you made is concerned, this is truly reflective of the overwhelming opinion in the world community. This is unanimously passed as you know, 194 countries. And in today's divisive world, that's certainly a very rare happening. The consensus, the overwhelming majority of opinion is that the world must know about this, what happened. Because this should not repeat. This kind of a thing, if it happens, how the world can mobilize and prepare and counter effectively. Without this sort of a mammoth scale of loss in human lives and in terms of the destruction of economies in so. So you see, China is also quite in favor of that approach. This must be evaluated, what really happened. As you know, there is no reference in the resolution to China or Wuhan or any such thing. So what does this imply? This implies that what happened in China, what happened anywhere else in the world, especially those countries where horrific events took place such as most conspicuously the United States, Spain, Italy, France and so on. All this need to be evaluated scientifically, objectively, impartially without ascribing any motives to any particular party. This is what the resolution is about. And this, if anything, I may sum up and say is a highly disagreeable proposition to the United States and to President Trump. Because their game plan was not at all this. This has undercut their game plan. Therefore, let me conclude saying that this is not something against China. This is something that Trump is finding extremely difficult to learn to live with, which explains that alternative threat or whatever that he has given to the WHO. So to build a bit on that last point you were suggesting, talking about. So Trump for over a couple of months has been pushing the argument of aid as being a Chinese virus, so to speak. The argument number two that the WHO has completely failed, it was completely under Chinese influence. And somehow this narrative is not really found support, even among his closest allies in the European Union. So was the World Health Assembly also a reflection of the fact that on this issue, especially the US is more or less isolated? Absolutely. The 27 member countries of the European Union are backing this. 54 member countries of the Africa group is sponsoring this. So you see, it's abundantly clear where we stand, that the United States has been completely isolated. The world opinion is that this is not the time to get into acrimonies, because something of momentous importance to humanity and to the stability of the international order is unfolding. We are nowhere near the end of it and no one knows what the end is going to be like. No one knows where the end is going to be and how it is going to be. And when we are all struggling in the midstream, this is not the time to break up controversies to do finger pointing. This is the whole point and this is something which is completely undercutting the motivations of the Trump administration. And there particularly the political objectives of President Trump himself in this election year in the United States. Trump, it's very well recorded. It's very well documented by Americans themselves, researchers, scientists, medical community, media, political class and so on. That he refused to even acknowledge that there was a crisis booming on the horizon. And he finally came to admit, acknowledge the problem only in March towards the end of March. By then this virus was all over the United States and they hadn't done any kind of preparatory work. And I don't want to get into the controversies. It is all there very well documented in the American media as to what was going on there. And this has brought them to this horrific situation of something like 100,000 people losing their lives. And that figure may even exceed this 100,000 because we really do not know. Some people speak about second wave and so on and so forth. So for Trump, at this point in time, it is not so much the COVID-19. It is not so much the preparations that are taking place in the United States to cope with the pandemic. But it is the reopening of the economy that is his number one priority. It's quite clear. Even though many states in the United States have shown great reluctance to abruptly opening up everything. Trump wants this. Why is that? Because in his election campaign, the economy is the only trump card that he could show that he could claim that he did well on that side. But now that is possible for him to show at this time. Unemployment is touched historic levels. This is the social distress. He is very much there for everyone to see what is happening in that country. So he has nothing to claim as success. And then there is always this that between now and November, there may be a second wave or there may be another crisis building up. No one knows how this virus is heating and where it is heating. So you see he is using this China boggy as a major destruction. Many elements come into it. There is an undercurrent of anti-China feelings in the United States on one side. Then there is the main opponent, assuming that it would be Joe Biden, who used China problem differently. Not through a tariff war and so on, but differently in terms of making something like Obama's approach to. So it's like making China a stakeholder in stability and hold order. And then there is this body of opinion in the United States, which is the sending that for the first time in a century, the United States is dominance globally is coming under challenge and it must be countered effectively. So all these are coercing and Trump is clearly seeing great potential in building this up as his main campaign plan. This is where he has floundered because the World Health Assembly has now come up with a stance what Trump has been always demanding that this should be evaluated scientifically, objectively, impartially. Trump's calculation in my reading is that China would never agree. Of course, very few countries would agree an impartial inquiry into its internal body politic. India would never agree on a thing like this. But China agreed because China is confident that it has nothing to hide. But on the other hand, the tables are being turned now. And it is Trump who will have a problem if search lights are held on what really happened in the United States. And that will cost him politically very, very heavily. That will cost him. So you see, that is the whole point. And as far as the WHO is concerned, this last bit that he has given this threat to the WHO that he will quit is because he has been tweeting in the recent days that he is reflecting over his earlier decision to freeze the contribution to the WHO. He might rethink and his revised stance was that the United States' commitment should be made on par with China's, not exceeding China's. But then you see President Xi Jinping has now come up with a stunning offer of $2 billion as China's contribution in the coming couple of years alone to help countries. He has also offered that he will resort to giving debt relief, especially to the African countries. And then on top of it, he has also made the offer that whatever vaccine China develops will be made accessible to the world really. China will not have a monopoly control over it. And China will ensure that it can be accessed at affordable price. Now you see this last point is the unkindest cut of all in my opinion. Because you know, Western pharma companies make tons of money when they attend some medicine. And then they hold the rest of the world, especially the developing countries hostage by demanding exorbitant prices. You know, India has experienced this. India has been receiving in for drugs like for cancer and so on and so forth. We know that, you know, we have beggars can't be choicers because, you know, we'll need to depend on these modern drugs which have been developed. And we are now not at all in a position to demand that it should be sold to us at affordable price. And here Xi Jinping comes and says that he will ensure that these vaccines for Chinese companies are apparently developing vaccine. And the probability is very high in my opinion, since he has already now touched the subject at that level, the highest level of Chinese leadership that they are somewhere near a breakthrough. And if the Chinese are not putting their cards on the table, they are keeping it to themselves and they are just briefing us about what's going on on the vaccine front in China. I think they are now somewhere near a breakthrough and they might in fact even outstrip other competitors. And then the Chinese president is saying that he will make it accessible to the developing countries. He mentioned developing countries, developing countries and he will make it affordable for them. This is unheard of in modern history, you know, in this sphere of pharmaceutical industry and business of pharmaceutical industries. You see, Trump was evidently expecting that he would have a monopoly, America would have a monopoly over this. We may have known about three, four weeks ago that the Americans even made a secret offer to buy off a German pharma company. And they were announced to warp speed now also. Correctly. And their executives were in fact taken to the White House and Trump met them. The battle is so serious. Trump them and then they said that they would give any amount of money if this lab is just transferred from Germany to the United States. You see, the stakes are very high and Trump's mentality, he sees a mercantilist mind on anything. If he bends down, he must have in his fist a few dollars. This is his mindset. So out of this horrific thing that is happening, he's also calculating how America can make some money out of it. Absolutely. And finally, I just wanted to ask you about the position of India amid all this debate. So we've seen Prime Minister Modi has said that he's had conversation with some world leaders. But India has not occupied any of its traditional positions where it was a leader of the global south. Or for that matter, in the BRICS countries have not come together in any meaningful way on this issue. So India is basically nowhere in the global discourse on this issue. Sadly, you know, that is the truth. You have given an exact picture of what is happening. I will only add this to what you said that not only that India has ganged up with the United States. You may know that exactly one week ago when this opinion was building up in the world community and the United States was getting very acutely conscious that it is being isolated. Pompeo with the initiative to at least to have a few people around the United States so that they don't feel lonesome. I think five countries or something like that joined this endeavor on COVID, specifically on COVID, cooperation on COVID. India was one of them. I mean, I was absolutely shocked that India was one of them. Now, India has so much of opportunity today, in fact, you know, to take over a leadership role because we have a fairly developed pharma industry. If I were in a leadership position, what do I do? I would work very closely with China and try and see if I can create an atmosphere where this vaccine can also be produced in India. Like some enterprising entrepreneur in Pune or Bangalore managed to do with a research researchers in Oxford University. So similarly, you could have done it. And India has a great tradition in pharmacology. Now, this is the kind of thing India should have done and India could have joined hands with China in making this vaccine and other related drugs at affordable prices to the developing countries. This is the kind of role which India was uniquely, India is uniquely placed to perform. And, you know, it would immensely, it would raise India's stature. What do we have here? Yeah, you have the external affairs minister making a few telephone calls, then distributing. So what is that called that hydrochloroxin, whatever drug? Hydroxychloroxin. Yes, yes, to a few chaps here and there. And, you know, this is India's role. And then Prime Minister, now and then, you know, with Trump that we will fight shoulder to shoulder. They're struggling there in the United States. And what is there to fight? You know, we should have actually not gone on these lines with a certain vision that this is a challenge and this is also an opportunity for India to play a global role. We've just goofed up completely. Now, the only good thing is that in this world health recently, a new executive body has been elected and India has been elected. So now even now you look, what is the kind of backing the sentiments, the groundswell of opinion favoring India in the, in the, among the developing countries, African countries and so on. So it's on that basis that India got elected into the executive council. Russia is also there in the executive council. And Russia also has a similar approach towards this, that this vaccine should be universally available. So work together, now build on that, but I really don't know whether we'll ever do that because that means, you know, crossing sorts with Trump. Because this is going to be disturbing Trump's pharma industry connections. So, you know, I can't understand why, you know, what is this policy? There is no policy. The overall tilt there to the pivot to the United States, you know, that has become very pronounced through the last couple of years is plain to see, especially after this in the second term is plain to see. I think the external affairs minister is interested basically only in developing a relationship with the United States. That is India's foreign policy today, as far as I can see. So in that line, whatever fits in, fits in. Otherwise, we are not interested. This has come to be the policy. It's very tragic. Thank you so much, Ambassador Badrakumar for talking to us. That's all we have time for today. Keep watching.