 Good day viewers and welcome to the program agriculture on the move my name Philip Sidney your host today we are discussing a very important topic and that is sea turtle harvesting in the closed season however to further discuss this with Main Studio is Mrs. Serita Williams-Peter who is our chief fisheries officer attached to the Ministry of Agriculture and Fisheries. Welcome to the program ma'am. Thank you very much Sidney nice to be here. Great in this COVID season why I don't know how we do it but we have to in what policy put things in place when sure that we can have a program. Yes okay so it's a let's look at not only turtle but I know there are other sea species that are being regulated. Could you give us an overview of this why there's regulation so that the public can understand the rationale behind this. Okay so thanks very much for that and I think the last time I was on the show I spoke about our fisheries policy and one of the policy priorities included ecosystem health and integrity and that's one of the core functions of the department is to maintain ecosystem health and integrity which means that we need to regulate harvesting of our various species of fisheries importance and we have a few of those species that we do have measures in place to protect the species and this is really important because at the end of the day as a nation food security is very important to us and we need to be able to ensure that whatever we are harvesting we give it a chance to replenish itself right so if you go out and you keep taking all the females all the young ones you will end up with a population that cannot reproduce and that is shrinking over time and so the Department of Fisheries role is to take a look at the different fisheries and ensure that we put measures in place working along with the resource users with along with consumers to ensure that we have that sustainable supply so when we had it with sustainable it's not this buzzword with that we just use it's really about whatever we take we give it a chance to replenish itself so the population doesn't go down it stays stable and we also look at not changing the population structure too much so you know in a population you have old people young people younger people different age groups etc same thing with fish species we try as much as possible to maintain that same classification of animals because all of that helps maintain a healthy population is it that is that an international law that you will follow or is it just a policy solution adopt it's actually both international regional so we follow because a lot of the species are shared so you can't necessarily look at for example Wahoo and Dolphin fish and say that's Saint Lucia fish they migrate they pass through waters of many different countries and so these countries come together we bring in scientists they look at the biology of the species and make as best as possible decisions on the science to decide what type of measures will be best to protect them and so the species that we in Saint Lucia we've been looking at specifically are our conch queen conch sea urchins sea turtles lobster and for general fin fish like our reef fish we do have other measures in place not specifically related to the biological controls but things like gear restrictions so I will go through all of these and I will give the audience an opportunity to hear what are some of these measures and why they're there in places well can you can you can't yeah sure so some of these include for example area and time restriction so in the case of for example reef fish there are area restriction so places that you cannot fish and these are our marine reserves we have quite a few marine reserves around the island and for example the Sufran marine management area is one of the typical areas people be familiar with that has marine reserves and we do not permit fishing in these areas marine reserve so as protecting the habitat and the fish within there so that they can mature get older reproduce and in what we call the spill over effect so if they're an area and they're allowed to reproduce then and they young comes out when they're too met a lot of them it gets crowded so they will move migrate move into the other areas where you can fish so it's so that is a principle of marine reserve and this is why we indicate to people not to to fish there there and then there's time restriction so the time restrictions are periods of time in the year where we indicate to fishers that you cannot harvest and these usually coincide with breeding times of of the species so for example lobster there is a closed season and that runs from March 1st every year to August 1st every year so during that time people are not permitted to harvest they're not permitted to sell exposed for sale or having their possession lobster and that is because during that time the lobster that's what we have found is that it's a it's major or main breeding period and again understanding sustainable harvesting you want to give the animal a chance to reproduce so that it can replenish the population so when you are taking or extracting the animal from the water you are giving it a chance to keep its numbers up right and the same thing with the sea turtles there is a period of time the March to November every year where you have sea turtles are nesting they reproducing they're coming on our beaches to lay eggs and so you want to create a period of time where fishers are not allowed to fish because the turtles will be coming up on shore and you don't want to interfere with them so that's the time restrictions right and then we also have the other biological controls like size restrictions so the lobster has a size restriction as well as the sea turtles as well so for the lobster the size restriction is 9.5 carapace lens so most of our individuals will be aware of that because most of our purchasers at hotels because we've done a lot of sensitization of our fishers and purchasers so that they know to measure the lobster before they they take it and so we encourage people to know that there's also size restrictions for the sea turtles that they come people can't take a total of a certain size again all of that is related to one you do not want to extract from the water a lobster that has not had a chance to reproduce because if you keep doing that you're not going to give the population opportunity to replenish itself so you have to allow it to get to 9.5 and above that figure was calculated based on data that told us that if it arrives at 9.5 the majority of the population has had a chance to reproduce at least once before you extract it right and the sea turtles when it's a certain size it is still considered immature it hasn't had a chance to reach maturity level to breed so therefore it's not it's not permitted so these are some of the measures even with the conch if the conch must have a flat lip when the lip is flat the shell is flat you know those beautiful shells that people would come and polish and of the lovely pink inside we want that flat lip because it tells us that's an adult conch and so therefore you're not extracting juveniles right and there's also gear restrictions so with the gears there are different restrictions on the mesh size a size of the mesh and again that is to allow for fish of a certain size which probably has not reached maturity to not to be captured before taking in it right now I must indicate that is science is not perfect right science is not perfect there are times when maybe the restriction should be more rigid but we operate on what we call a precautionary approach we do our best so that we can advise our public and our officials as to what the regulations are we involve them when there are cases where we may need to increase the restrictions there are times where we may realize okay we could relax a little bit but generally given the state of our global fisheries it's important for us to abide by these restrictions because illegal harvesting will result in an impact on our food security I noticed that you're relaxed at one time when it came to the sea eggs sea urchin but I'm not saying that anymore what what yours is still a moratorium on yes so that there is still a there's still a there's a close season so what we do now is we do an assessment so sea urchins it's just like human beings all animals have specific behaviors that we look at and we adjust the regulations based on that so for example sea urchins have known to be animals that would reproduce or colonize an area when there are other sea urchins in the area so if you engage in overfishing or extracting too much in an area it will result in less sea urchins colonizing the area which means that you're going to have a reduction in population so what we do is we go out into the water we look at what the population first the the amount of animals that we see and we also look at the population structure meaning what are the different sizes size classes we call it of sea urchins in the water and if we realize that you do not get in that healthy mix of animals in the different size classes or the population is probably too low to sustain harvesting we will not open the season right and what is happening now is the illegal harvesting when the season is closed is impacting the ability for us to open the season because you go into areas and you realize it has already been harvested illegally and so it impacts fishers who are registered to fish or licensed to fish and they cannot enjoy an open season there's another delicacy the what I call it the crayfish and I noticed a few go in the rural areas and there's any any D any you know party you'll find crayfish what's the situation of this crayfish is actually is not permitted for extraction it's based on our legislation it's in there and part of the reasoning behind that is there was one point where we had a severe reduction in the amount of crayfish the population is really suffering we also note that there are very detrimental measures being used to extract crayfish there is a use of poisons and toxins in the rivers and we have received reports for example from aquaculture farmers that have experienced fish kills because of the use of those kill all aqua life yeah kills all aqua life and just imagine that you are consuming this which has been killed using a toxic substance you are ingesting it now so just imagine the impact that it has on your own health so we are very concerned about especially when you start moving into the October month which we're not to far away from because of the junior Creole activities we have seen an increase in the we do see an increase in the amount of poisons and toxins using the water we have also got concerns from Wasco and the impact it has on on the water catchment so so it's very important that you know people abide by that we do provide options the option is that there are many aquaculture farmers who engage in culture of prawns macrobrachium rosin boogie and people can purchase purchase it from our aquaculture farmers and use it in the traditional way but we do not ask anybody to use the river crayfish particularly because there is a high risk to human health as well and based on how they extract but those persons I mean I remember like a little boy you know you go diving and going you know between the big stones pushing your hand and pulling out you know like there's a name that called of the big ones you the big big big what they call it the big gundies yeah I mean but so you will not permit that we do not permit that yes yes we do not permit that again because there is deep concern about how it's been harvested we operate also on the on the understanding that we have to look at a big picture one individual who is indicating well I've cut it with my hands how can you verify that and they have it for sale and some of us other people have it for sale and it's been killed using poison how how does the regular consumer differentiate between one over the other and that's very important so so it we we as a people have to be mindful very mindful of how how things are done and that is why again I mean programs like this helps get the message out it's important for us as a department to ensure that consumers purchases understand what the regulations are because we as a department can't do it alone to monitor and force we need to have consumers who also are driving the market for certain things so if there is a market for sea urchins and for undersized lobsters anyone who is purchasing you're part of the problem and you are liable yes and you are driving unsustainable practices who let points we will come back to this because you do for our break you're watching agriculture on the move stay tuned we'll be back soon COVID-19 is a new pandemic disease as declared by the World Health Organization it is transmitted directly by respiratory droplets when an infected person coughs or sneezes or indirectly through robbing the face with contaminated hands there is still no specific treatment or vaccine against COVID-19 and as such the farming community should adhere to some special recommendations limit the number of crew members to only essential persons practice frequent hand washing and cleaning of all boat surfaces limit contact with the public keeping a safe distance between each person limit unnecessary conversation with customers and pairs during the sale of fish wash hands frequently with soap and running water or use 60 to 95% alcohol based hand sanitizer until water and soap are available sneeze and cough in a flexed elbow or into tissue immediately discarding the use tissue into a bin and wash hands with soap and water or use an alcohol based hand sanitizer until soap and water is available and avoid close contact with persons having respiratory symptoms more than ever before your important role as gatekeepers of St. Lucia's nutritional health and food security should be taken seriously when you exercise these precautions you not only safeguard your health but also continue to allow all St. Lucia's access to freshly caught fish and other seafood remember it is our responsibility to ensure our nation eats fresh St. Lucia's best welcome back to the program agriculture on the move and we of course discussing the harvesting of sea turtle in the closed season people that is very serious so it's really becoming a huge problem I'm suffice to say I have seen the damage I have seen where large turtles were caught and they were slaughtered and people took away a quarter of the meat and the rest to you know to decree I mean that is bad speak to this so that people can understand why they should not harvest the turtle you know in the offseason okay thanks thanks for for forgetting it to that I first must address the issue that you mentioned about capture of two tools and I suspect that may have been on beaches yes and that is a criminal offense no no no for the entire year whether the season is open or closed a nesting turtle should never be interfered with again you want to ensure that it's breeding and it can breed comfortably so no one should be harvesting sea turtles whereas you nesting on the beach no one should be interfering with baby sea turtles because one of the things it's important to recognize is that one in 1000 eggs of sea turtles make it to be a breeding age adult so these are precious eggs and so everyone that we can keep alive and well to get out into the water because they face other stresses it's important to do that when the season is closed we're also asking no one should be interfering with any turtle at all even if you had total meat on your freezer from the last time from the last when the fishery was open you are not permitted to put that out for sale and we have noticed some people indicating well I've had it from when the season was opened how is it possible to differentiate total meat that was purchased in the open season or closed season when you do that totals are endangered species it's important to note that and many countries around the world have actually halted having a fishery in the first place Senusia continues to have a fishery because we try to have a balanced perspective and respect traditional practices however we do recognize that it is an endangered species and so the period for allowing harvesting is quite short it's three months it goes from October to December that is the only time that a fisher licensed is permitted to harvest sea turtles and that it can only be done a hundred meters offshore right a hundred meters offshore and then you you part of the reasoning is it if the total is coming closer to shore that means it most likely is coming to to nest and so we want to give it that fighting chance to be able to come in to nest and not be interfered because as I said the nesting season is from March to November right usually around October November is usually the baby hatchlings that are hatching and going back into the water but you may get a few totals still coming up on shore and you want to protect them another thing I wanted to also mention is that we when totals are nesting it's important to how we behave around sea turtles because sometimes we do get people very excited because it's a very charismatic event when you see a turtle come up and is nesting and so it's important to maintain at least I would say use a save it cope with 19 six foot distance from the total to give it a chance to successfully nest because it could get agitated or scared off by having too many people around and what will happen it'll go back into the water and lay its eggs there which would mean none would survive so we do encourage people I know sometimes there's a good heart behind it they want to see the process but just maintain at least a six foot distance from them yeah now the other thing is apart from harvesting in the open season there are other economic benefits I know we have tourists coming they go see diving you know also to watch them nest or when they come to lay you know how is that you also ensuring that that happens to or your deal encourage that activity we definitely encourage that activity we had been working with the debaura sea turtle watch group for many years to encourage that program because at Granance there's a higher number of leatherback turtles nest in there however there has been a dip in the ability to maintain that program partly because of security of the area of the beach and then they do get the poaching happening so there have been a lot of interventions to help to quell that situation there we do have initiatives where we have trained officials young people in different communities to become divers and to sort of look at options where they do ecotourism they go diving they do what we call the coral restoration initiative so that they go into other avenues and I'm certainly divers one of the most remarkable events that they see is when you go on a dive and you see a suit or something I mean that it that makes your dive you know and so we do encourage any fish or anybody who's wants to go into that avenue rather than look at extraction to do so but we do respect and understand that there is also that traditional cultural activity around harvest in sea turtles where we're asking that people balance that with respecting the open and the closed because ultimately we would be left with no choice if we continue like that to have a permanent closed season if we are not respecting the open and closed because it really we must really understand that it takes years before a sea turtle is ready or reaches breeding age maturity but maybe about 40 years or so so it's important that we maintain the closed season because when you take when you've extracted a turtle from the from the environment it takes a long time before that animal can get replaced or replenished and it also has a major impact on the sustainability of the fishery so we look at very carefully illegal practices in fisheries and a lot of the decisions sometimes are based on the level of non-compliance so if people are compliant then you can work to look at less rigid measures but there are times if there is you realize there's non-compliance there is need to increase the rigidity of the measures to maintain the sustainability of the fisheries. Do you have any surveillance from your department to monitor the illegal poaching of sea turtles? We do rely heavily on reports from the general public so we would get reports about individuals who have total meat maybe in their freezer we've had reason to engage the police we do engage the police and they work alongside with us to do we do enter various business establishments once we get a report of perhaps sea turtle is on their menu or they may have had sea turtle there to go in and do a confiscation and to charge the person with the offence of having sea turtle outside of the closed season. But this time around apparently it raised some awareness so what was more severe this time that that brought your department to the fore to hey let us go back a bit and let us get the public out there to be more aware was there more of the illegal harvesting? Yes so we have noticed due to the COVID-19 situation quite a few people are going into fisheries and many are going into it without the knowledge of what the regulations are we have noticed people more people now being opportunistic so if they see they will just grab etc and so there's deep concern about the food security and so we do realize that there's needs for more efforts we have we're engaging more with the police to help support doing the patrols etc we cannot do it alone we just do not have the manpower so we really do need the public's cooperation and support to report those offenses to indicate to us when these things happen we're working with the police to help strengthen fisheries management and enforcement that that is an area that we really would like to see strengthened at the department level and so we see a lot of more interest from the public as well in terms of the reports of sea turtle sightings etc we do get a lot more a lot of the individuals who do the early morning running and exercise they do give us a call and let us know when they see a sea turtle nesting or in distress etc which we do appreciate so that we can improve our efforts for patrolling and knowing when nests are and so we can check on and make sure. Over the years we all have to apprehend anybody and charge them and what's the what's the what's the fine? We have charged a few people over the years I think they're probably a few people that needs to be charged more but we have we do have we have charged a few people for various offenses not only sea turtle but lobster taken conch illegal sizes etc there is a fine of $5,000 generally and I think that fine is probably too low yes it's probably too low but I mean our legislation is from the 1990s so it's you know we do need to update the legislation but there is that fine and sometimes people would agree to settle the offense out of court and what we call compound the offense and they would be charged an automatic one-third of that amount. In the new regulation and the new fisheries policy that was that taken into consideration? The new fisheries policy does look at improving our legislation so that we can upgrade it to to cater for inflation of prices etc and make sure that the fines are more of a deterrent to the activity because we do recognize that there will be people who would comply no matter what they understand and they will comply but there will be people who whether there's regulations whether there's enforcement they will not comply and so we must put things in place to cater for that. In the open season there are turtles that will come to nest and they are tagged in the open season would you encourage the harvesting of those turtles and slaughtering? We would not because it means it tells us that this is an animal that has successfully nested and therefore you want to give it an opportunity to continue to nest right because most of our tagging programs happens when the animal comes to nest which means that it's a female and so you want to give it that opportunity to continue to to nest however that we do recognize that there are times when fishers would set a net and a turtle would get entangled and you would not necessarily know whether it's a tag turtle or not a tag turtle so if it does have a tag and it has been harvested legally we ask you to bring the tag to the Department of Fisheries so that we can do a trace because the tags give us information as to where the turtle has been and the different locations that it has been so it's sometimes we get tags from Martinique Barbados so that we know that animal has been to Barbados to nest. Final words from you? Well for me I want to appeal to the general public that your actions have an impact in food security in the Department of Fisheries food security in St. Lucia it has an impact in terms of what the fishers do and what people who sell our fish species do so you can drive better practices in St. Lucia and if you know the law and ensure that whoever you put this in from the they are selling you what is legal size they're selling you what's in the open season then I think we'll be in a better position in terms of our food security in St. Lucia. Sir William Peter thank you very much for being on the program I wish you success and of course continue the education and and to allow people to know and to sensitize them about the harvesting of the turtle thank you very much you've been watching agriculture on the move thank you for being the program and remember agriculture is our business eat fresh so Lucia's best and don't forget COVID is around stay safe be careful follow the protocols I'm Philip Sidney goodbye