 All right, so My name is Cameron Barrett as he mentioned. I'm the senior manager of website technology for Newark public schools It is the largest public school district in the state of New Jersey around 38,000 students six or seven thousand teachers and professionals and Of 66 schools 67 depending on how you count them My background is kind of interesting Pioneered the blog format way back in 1997. I initially wrote an essay called Anatomy of a web log that kind of defined what blogs are and I started blogging I was like I'm like easily the second oldest blogger on the internet I mean blogging for the longest time, but I don't really blog anymore But everything that I wrote back in the 90s in the early 2000s is still up online at camworld.org I'm an old-school web guy I used to build a lot of stuff for the Apache software foundation Sun Microsystems Motorola I was working in the open-source software development field where I was taking those software development Methodologies and taking them into these big corporations and teaching them how to do software development in a better way I'm also a UX designer information architect web designer. I've been doing this stuff since the mid 90s I've built sites for Clark for president in 2004 US Army World Economic Forum. You guys know who they are they're the Organization nonprofit in Geneva, Switzerland that runs the Davos conference The Davos conference is where all the business leaders and the world leaders get together once a year in January in The out in the Swiss Alps and they talk about what's going on in the world and how can they help? Move things forward in the world. It's a very important conference Sadly none of those websites were on WordPress They were in net they were in Drupal in 2003 I was at the open-source conference in Portland, Oregon the O'Reilly open-source convention and Out of that conference grew this mailing list called the CMS list the content management system list And so me and this guy named Phil built this mailing list and it grew within a year to like five or six thousand people in the CMS business Communicating about what's happening and promoting the product and talking about CMS is this back in the day where the CMS was still kind of a new thing You know, I was using movable type which is pearl based and Drupal, which is PHP my sequel But WordPress at the time 2003 2004 was still kind of like a little blip on the radar I wasn't paying attention to it very well. I was so focused on other things I just didn't pay attention and so at this conference This kid comes up to me And he's like Are you Cameron Barrett and I'm like, yeah, he's like I've been on your mailing list. I just wanted to meet you That was Matt Mullenweg 2004 maybe it was 2003. I can't remember it was one of those two years and Matt goes I've got this product that I'm building. It's called WordPress. I'm like, oh, yeah, I've kind of heard of it I still brand new at the time, but you know, this this is Matt. I think he was 20 21 He's pretty young kid, but he's done such a great job in the past 12 13 years of Getting WordPress to be what it is today and I really applaud him for that He's done a fantastic job of leading the leading the community and getting people involved Here's a real example of what I was doing back in the early 2000s This was a website for the US Army it was for the Army Board of Generals was built in Microsoft net on a proprietary CMS and we spent six months for developers UX person project manager bunch of other people we spent a million dollars on building this website out and We launched we got it ready for launch and we're like here we go We're gonna launch it what's called the Orion project. We're gonna launch it and then we got an email from somebody down in DC And they're like Now you're gonna cancel the project so we spent all that money all that taxpayer money on this project That ended being canceled and I'm like, you know think of the kind of money we do have spent We would have saved if we'd used something like an open-source product like Drupal or WordPress The good news is that same project Years later is now migrating to WordPress So WordPress is starting to creep into the federal government Starting to creep into our Defense Department and people are recognized the value of an open-source product like WordPress Yay, right? So good. It's really good news But what about schools right my session is WordPress for schools and that's where I've been working in the past Four or five years of just helping school districts move to WordPress In the summer of 2013 I Got a job offer from Toys R Us, you know the big toy store chain Director of UX global e-commerce They're redeveloping their entire back-end platform pre-commerce They're moving it from a close source system to something else and they're like, oh, this is a great opportunity it was so excited to take it and Then I realized well The development team was in Poland and It would have required me to travel from New York to Poland six to ten times a year back and forth back and forth Easily week at a time which kind of meant a bit of a hitch there I just spent two years working for the World Economic Forum in Geneva And where I was traveling four times a year to Geneva from New York to Geneva and back and it was awesome It was a great job. I loved it doing really get important work But I had a wife and a baby daughter. This is my daughter when she was like one Look how cute she is. I Love this picture So I had a wife and a baby daughter and my wife basically because she's like no My wife said You just took it you just left a job where you were commuting to Europe too much I don't really want you to take this job with Toys R Us She she she went so far as to say It's not gonna work out. If you do this I'm gonna be home alone with our daughter and you're just never gonna be home I just she said no and so I'm still married. Thankfully. I'm still married So I actually said no to this amazing job with Toys R Us Instead what I did is I took a job It's a New Jersey state job with Newark public schools where I migrated the entire District all of their public-facing websites to wordpress Now it's a local commute 10 miles. It's like easy. I loved it. It was great No more going into the New York City. No more, you know, 90 minutes every morning on the train or the bus I can get my car and drive to work. It's great But just a little bit more about me because everybody likes talking about themselves, right? Are we all a little bit narcissistic? A little bit more about me and this is an important factor. I Grew up in places. I was I'm part of a teaching family my parents were school teachers They worked for the Department of Defense dependent schools. So every time of a military base overseas There's schools on these military bases that teach you the kids of American servicemen, right? So my parents worked in this in this Dodd system And so I grew up in places like Pongo Pongo American Samoa. Anybody seen Moana yet great movie, right? Just a new Disney movie. It's all about the Polynesian Islands. It's fantastic. So I grew up in places like this This is a a Top secret military base in Northern England. It's not even on any maps and from as far as a cartographer Is concerned it doesn't exist, but those Big white golf ball looking things are weather coverings for radars for big satellite radar dishes This is a top secret communication space in Northern England. I lived there as a kid as My parents were school teachers But I mean the point is I care about our schools. I Mean I love our schools I think the American public school system is the best in the world And I think it can continue to be the best in the world But I decided not to follow my parents into the teaching profession I decided that I'm a technologist, you know, I grew up with computers in the 80s and the 90s I wanted to work with computers as a as an adult And so I went into the technology field in the 90s and I realized that in The early 2000s in the and the early 2010s I realized that I can use all of the skills that I've learned as a Technologist and I can use those to help our public schools solve their technology problems There's 14,000 plus public school districts in our country. I mean that's a lot of school districts and You know, they all have websites, right? I mean, there's a couple that don't they have a page or somewhere, but they all have websites Important to the school have a website. Oh, wait, wait, wait, correction Most of them have Crappy websites. They're just they're not that well done. They're not designed well. They're just kind of thrown up They're never updated frequently enough They they kind of look like this they're like Wall of text, right? Who's gonna read all that text and it never changes. That's been up. They've been up there for six months You know, if you're a parent coming to this website, are you gonna come back a second and a third time? Probably not because there's no new information there for you Just another real-world example, this was one of the New York public schools school websites in 2012 Using a proprietary CMS vendor solution every one of those red boxes is a flash file Like okay, 2012. We're already five years into the iPhone Everybody knows that flash doesn't work on the iPhone this website while the content was there was completely inaccessible I mean, this is what it looks like on an iPad. You just I Mean seriously and this was a vendor selling very expensive content management system software to a school district You know, I think WTF, right? Everybody knows what that means. What the flash, right? Mobile view, I mean it's even worse. I mean, can you imagine trying to use this website on an iPhone in 2012-2013? This Unacceptable really. I mean these are your taxpayer dollars being spent on this Proprietary CMS from a vendor The sites were complete failure It's no surprise that parents don't they report that they don't regularly go to their children's website children's schools websites just They've learned through experience that the website doesn't serve their needs of the way they want You why okay? Well, it's not the school's fault. It's not the district's fault It's the schools are being sold these closed source There's a long phrase there, but it's holding closed source of vendor controlled horrible barely working confusing user interface offers a service solutions, you know, they're just This is what the vendor offers and the schools lap it up because they don't know any better You know, which leads to websites that are not updated frequently enough there You know because it's too hard, you know, not just the fact that the saw the CMS is Failing to provide a quality website. It's never being updated because the CMS is hard to use again These are administrators and teachers and principals trying to update websites. It's got to be user friendly It's got to be something that they were going to be able to easily figure out even with a little bit of training that they can figure it out and actually Update their website on a more frequent basis Yeah, bad templates bad design. I call the bad clip art mania. Everybody everybody remember what Microsoft word clip art looked like in in a I think early 2000s 2000 up through like 2008 and this is Terrible even clippy is sad. I mean even clippy is going going what I mean, it's just I Mean this is but again, these are the tools These are the tools that were being provided to the school districts to use to build their websites They weren't being given the better tool to use. This is just what they had to use And so they made the best of what they could they made the best of what they were given If you talk to the technologists in the schools, right? Programming teacher or a CTO or something. They're going to go. Yeah, I could easily fix this problem Easily not a hard problem to solve But I don't have access to the source code. It's a closed source system The vendor doesn't give me at give me the code. I can't do anything can't help you hands are tied The solution of course right we're all at word camp The solution is to migrate all of these school websites to WordPress Let's get them off the proprietary system. So let's Move them to an open source solution where you have more freedom and more ability to Build the websites that our schools need You know You guys as who's who here's a parent who here has children in schools. Yeah, I'm just about everybody, right? You guys are the WordPress experts You should be going into your school districts and saying hey, you know our websites aren't that great But unlike I'd like to help, you know, I know the system called wordpress that I think would be perfect For our school district. I'll help you migrate or I'll help you find a company to help to migrate All of our websites to WordPress and we're gonna have then have better websites and better serve our community You know, you guys are the experts get involved and then you can fire the vendors right these expensive proprietary CMS vendors fire them You know Save that taxpayer money. I mean, we're all paying crazy high property taxes with different levels of I Mean in where I live in New Jersey. It's ridiculously high like 55% of my Taxpayer of my property taxes goes to funding the schools, you know in some places. It's like 12% but It's a lot of money that's being spent to fund our schools Of course that money has to be spent on infrastructure things like websites. So why should a proprietary CMS vendor? Collect that money when you can do the same thing better in WordPress for free These these companies are collecting taxpayer dollars and delivering a bad product in a bad service Case study. All right So this is the district that I work for it's a big district around 40,000 students We migrated the entire thing over to WordPress over a summer Here's some numbers. You don't see this very often in presentations. These are real numbers. We spent $30,000 to migrate Everything including new design new templates new, you know new software new new WordPress back-end everything We're hosting on WP engine because we don't have a sys admin to maintain the security updates for like an AWS server So we just use a dedicated managed server. We rely on the vent on the hosting company to keep things secure Great company. I kind of like them. They're look expensive, but I like them Year one cost we spent $64,000, right? It seems like a lot of money when you think about it, but again, we're a very big district and When you compare it to the number below We were spending $59,000 every year Just for hosting websites Just for this proprietary CMS $59,000 a year That's actually lower. It used to be 88,000. So We they got it down, but it was still a huge amount of money being spent just for hosting websites and a CMS solution Yikes, you know we went from 64 from year one because you have to you have to fund the build out of the website and the migration To 14 so we in the year two we saved 50 grand Right $50,000 saved Look at that year three We actually realized that we overbought our dedicated managed server. We didn't need to spend $1,200 a month We could spend $600 a month and so year three year three early. So we only spent $7,200 Again, we went from 59 to 7,200 Just by moving the WordPress We also spent $9,000 On a content migration script. And so there's a story behind this. I have plenty of time, right? How we on time? There's a story behind this and this is important to understand I Was working with this vendor in Pennsylvania. I'm not allowed to mention their name But I called them up and I said Can I get a copy of the database just give me a dump to Dotnet at my you know, sq microsoft sql. So just give me a dump of the database and They said we'll get back to you That's all right foul the ticket A week later I'm like, hey, where's that dump I asked for I Got an email back and saying We can't give it to you and I'm sitting there going This is our data, right? School owns this data. Yeah, they agreed. Yeah, you own it. I Said well, why can't I get a copy of the database? And they said well our legal department will let us give it to you it's like What what are you talking about? It's our data. Give me my data. I just want to use it Their legal department got in touch with our legal department Lawyer says this lawyer says that And it turns out that they are correct They cannot legally give me a copy of the database because from that I could derive the DB schema Which is their intellectual property So Legally, they're correct. So I was like, all right. Well There's a way around that if I can't write a database of database migration script to go from SQL to my seagull for WordPress. I can certainly scrape the hell out of the website, right? So I had a vendor write a plug-in a custom plug-in You'll see it hyphen importer dot PHP and all that does is you run it and It goes out to a website you define in a config file and it scrapes every single page on the website So it basically sniffs the HTML Identifies where the content starts where it stops and just sucks it and copies it and copies it and injects it into the WordPress WP post table And it also grabs any associated images on the page and puts those in the media library So everything that we needed to do by hand we had done with an automated script and we missed a few things I mean It's a big website 30,000 pages and the database is like 40 gigs. It's huge The big website hundred thousand media assets images PDF files But to do that by hand would have been like a room full of 20 interns Copy-paste copy-paste and we just didn't want to do that So we scraped it didn't get everything but it got most of it and we were able to migrate over a summer as opposed to three months of interns doing a lot of manual manual migration It adds up right so in five years were projected to save a hundred and fifty eight thousand dollars of New Jersey state taxpayer dollars New York Public Schools is a New Jersey state funded District and there's a lot of reasons for that, but we're not funded by Local property taxes were funded by property taxes from around the state Due to a law that was passed in the 80s So we saved a hundred and fifty eight thousand dollars over five years Here's another example, so there's a I'm playing a time right Yeah, I've got time Another example, so I was on my way to word camp Dayton a couple years ago It was a year and a half ago And I'm driving across, Ohio in my car and The check engine light comes on. I'm like, ah, that's the last thing I need my car to break down middle, Ohio so I limp it I limp it to Columbus Mazda dealer and While they're while they're fixing my car my phone rings And there's this guy on the phone. He goes Cameron Cameron Cameron. I need your help. I found your videos online I need to talk to you. I represent I'm a I'm a lawyer that works with a board of education in Osceola County Public Schools in Florida big district 90,000 students I think or something like that He's like we're about ready to sign a contract $150,000 a year five-year non-breakable contract seven hundred and fifty million or seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars on a Ed Leo school messenger product so Ed Leo is a CMS vendor school messenger is like a Mass notification mobile app push notification vendor for schools, right? So these two vendors teamed up and basically went and ripped off Osceola County Public Schools for two hundred seven hundred fifty thousand dollars He's like I he's like I need your help Help me educate what's going on here that these we don't need to spend this kind of money And so while my car was being fixed in Ohio I spent two hours on the phone with this guy and I said look you don't need to spend this kind of money You can do it for a lot less Unfortunately, they were so far down the path of that contract being through the the legal paperwork with school districts that I was unable to convince them to Not sign the contract and they went and they did it so I feel bad for these taxpayers down there because That was a lot of money So just for for what they were getting a basic CMS and a mobile app Lot of money Starts to add up when you think about it fourteen thousand plus public school districts in this country You could do the math I mean school districts vary in size But it's easily millions and millions and millions of dollars of our taxpayer money being spent on these public on these systems that Sometimes don't work that well What can use that money for instead? Well, how about the more important stuff like paying our teachers better? Bringing back the arts program that was cut, you know Football players need you new uniforms. I mean, there's just so many things that that money could be spent for better than a crappy CMS product from a vendor By moving to WordPress we got a fresh modern responsive design One of the best things I think about WordPress and I think people here will raise their hand is The menu management. It's beautiful if you ever used a proprietary a management system The menu management is always bad. It's always a nightmare to use WordPress got it right a few years, you know five years ago and they've stuck with it and it's a beautiful system I think it's Easily one of the best things about WordPress is how to manage a really complicated menu system like that This is one of our school sites, so if this was the district site, this is a school website So we kind of parent-child theme relationship going on. It kind of works really well But it's not just us so this district in Utah Granite there are big school 90 in big district 92 schools even bigger than New York and I found this website online and as and I figured out who built it And so I called the guy up and I said I said Chris Chris I found your website. I'm really impressed How big is the team that built this website for you? And I expected oh, it was me and an agency and three other people and he's like no I did it all by myself one guy and I was like whoa One guy who was part-time Consultant with the district Did this entire thing? I was like whoa Amazing I'll hire the guy in a heartbeat. He does such a good work. I Was that really amazed so but that's the power of using WordPress is you can have one person Who knows what they're doing to go in and replace an expensive CMS vendor? Just with the skills and using and building on top of WordPress one guy You get you you ever one of you could do this What school is this Fairfield no, that's granite. This is one of their school websites Montclair, New Jersey migrated their high school website over to WordPress did a pretty good job Fairfield Connecticut started you know move their website to WordPress and so we're starting to see more and more school districts kind of wake up to this problem of Spending taxpayer money on something that doesn't work for them the very well and moving to an open-source solution like WordPress What else can you do with WordPress? Well We're building a district intranet for our employees. We're building a student portal I'm looking to build a new a Google sites plug-in for WordPress so that if all your teacher pages are on Google sites You can use the WordPress to manage those pages through the Google sites API The problem is Google sites 2.0 just came out last week and it doesn't have an API so I Don't know if that solution is even going to work anymore I gotta I have to look at their release notes to see if they actually plan an API for Google sites. We'll see We're building some more portals for PD and it classroom newsletters And we're gonna start turning on push notifications for our teachers so that if a a Teacher wants to send a remind homework do your homework reminder to just her class. She can do that through through the mobile app So what's next so I'm building a company called school press Which is basically a WordPress for schools services company and I'm starting to migrate districts Here's one Southside ISD down in San Antonio again. Look at these numbers, you know, they were spending 25 grand a year for a vendor And they came in paid me 15 K to build it out and 3 K to $3,000 a year for hosting it Save and taxpayer money It's another one. This is another district in New Jersey. They were already on WordPress. They just wanted a bunch of New themes and custom development. So like all right 10 gay build it out and they self-hosted So and then you can fire these vendors, right? You know get involved bring WordPress into the school district and fire the vendors and save taxpayer money The school districts need your support. They need you to come in and say look I will help you Maintain WordPress. I will help you because my kid is in the school district I will help you be they'll become the WordPress expert for you, you know volunteer And now we have some time for Q&A. How's it going? You had 59 K I guess you mentioned was the what you had been spending and then When you first made the new plan it was 64 K I wanted to know if you had those cost savings projections worked out or Did it was that a great bonus later or we did you already knew we knew that we were going to save money? Because we wouldn't we wouldn't have to spend 59 K every year year after year We knew that we would spend the same you know year the budget from year one We would spend the same amount of money and then we knew that year two three four five would be an Additional savings because we weren't paying that vendor anymore Okay, that's good. It's just one of those things that came to my mind So what? Who are these? Who are the people that need to do the buy-in? At these districts and who are they taking advice from and what are those people saying? Yeah Yeah, it every district is a little bit different Sometimes you have to go directly through the board of direct Board of Education Because they make find all the financial decisions on the what's being spent and how Sometimes it's just getting the ear of a superintendent and selling directly to him sometimes it's a superintendent who Makes that responsibility to part of the information technology department and then sometimes it's part of a communications department so at Newark the Funding and the control of the what of the public websites is under communications department And then the websites that are public facing for Students and teachers are part of the curriculum department So you have to look at what you're trying to replace and which department controls it and then whose budget that money would come out of It really does vary from every district to district And who are they taking advice from because I've talked to a lot of People who say that when they try to pitch an open-source solution Generally, it's somebody in their team that's saying no don't use that. That's bad. It's there's not gonna work There's a big education component You have to go into the district and educate them Open-source is secure and you have to explain to them why open-source is more secure than a proprietary system so most proprietary systems are security by Obscurity meaning that because the act of the source code is not available. Nobody can hack into it That's patently false Because a lot of the security exploits across a Like a platform are the same So if you have a proprietary CMS running on Linux and an open-source CMS running on Linux The exploit vector is going to be identical between those two So you kind of have to educate them about this is the open-source software Actually because you have thousands and thousands of people looking at the code Eventually over time does become more secure because the bugs are patched faster It's an education component for sure Can you talk a little bit about why WordPress instead of other Open-source CMS is yeah, so I used to be a big Drupal developer. I Did I built some really big websites in 2003 2004 in Drupal Because that's kind of what I was steered towards at the time and WordPress was still kind of like this Unbirthed the baby and Matt Mullenweg's head He there was like a fork of B2 cafe and then it started to grow But at the time things were built movable type in Drupal so the reason that I didn't choose Drupal over WordPress is because Drupal 8 took like five years to release. I mean I was a big Drupal 6 and 7 user And I waited and I waited and I waited and it just was never released and the UX was really bad And by the time Drupal 8 came out I'd basically thrown away all of the experience I had in Drupal and I went with WordPress because it was a much more The release schedule was much quicker than with Drupal I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about how you manage roles and capabilities and how you handle training when you Have a lot of people like you're talking about teachers administrators that maybe have varying degrees of technical skills The roles and caps basically are defined based on what your district needs. So in our case, we have Administrator we have site administrator. We have technology coordinator teacher board member Student parent, but some of these we don't really use yet, but we've built them into there So those are basically the you know user role manager in WordPress. It's pretty easy pretty easy to find those For training we offer once a month. We have We offer WordPress training in our central office and in one of our computer labs And we have people sign up through a WordPress gravity form and they come in and we do the training It takes about four hours. We show them how to build pages how to edit pages how to add content how to edit content How to send a newsletter how to create a soliloquy slider? I mean it's basically they're the basic CMS functions that they need to manage a website So it's once a month And then my other question is are you building most of these as multi sites or they stand alone? It's all multi site. So we have one really big multi site And then we have a couple of one-off installs like our enrollment website is not part of the multi site It's a it's a standalone WordPress site in a different domain name Hi trying to convince a school to switch in the content management system that they are using. It's a very Political situation, especially if you are an outsider who benefits a who has no benefit in They switching the system. What will you say that are the three key? Reasons that will lead an organization to move from their current vendor to WordPress The first is the first is money you save a lot of money by moving away from a vendor The second is ease of use that you know using an open-source solution like WordPress is a lot easier for people to use and keep Their websites up-to-date And the third is the extensibility of the platform so if you're using a proprietary vendor and you need a new piece of custom functionality like for instance I was trying to use this proprietary vendor and I wanted to build like a pan and zoom Google map with With each of the schools and the four wards of Newark and so you can pan and zoom and see which schools are going to see it's Ward I couldn't do it inside this current inside the proprietary vendor CMS because they were Loading an older version of jQuery in the head of the dot of the document of the page document That I couldn't update so I needed a newer version So I called their tech support up and I said look I can't just want it. I just want you to upgrade jQuery for me because I don't it's outside of with a template structure that I have access to and They said oh we could do that for you, but it'll be 20 grand nice and I was like Alright, this is the vendor. I fired right. I basically oh I have a story behind that. How much time do I have? Can I have a lot stories? Quick story so this the VP of sales for this vendor after she learned that I was firing them and Moving to an open-source solution. She called me up and she's yelling at me on the phone. It's like Well calm down lady Lady calm down Screaming at me on the phone because she knew she was losing one of her biggest clients and I said lady your product sucks You're fired. You don't you know figure it out It's it's you have to use the the technologies that serve your purpose the best And this vendor was not them next question. I have a couple questions The these multi sites did you build them yourself or did you have a small team to build? Yeah, so it's a lot of work for one guy. I used a Company and I shouldn't mention their name, but they're here who helped me build the entire thing out Okay, yeah, we're services company now if I'm sure maybe you've had in the past. Have you had any of these multi sites have they been hacked before? No, never been hacked. Okay. I was gonna ask if it has who handles that Mostly us. I mean if it does happen, it would be me Experiencing it and then I would go to our hosting company, which is WP engine and say hey help Let's roll back to a backup and figure out what happened and then just go through the cleanup process. Okay, so Building multi-sites probably not so much one-man job. You probably would need a small team at the very least right not necessarily If you know multi-site you can certainly do it with one guy. It's not we're one one girl. It's not It's not that difficult. It's a little different than their standard WordPress But once you understand the differences between between them, it's pretty straightforward. Okay. Thanks So I work with our local school district I built them a sports website, but they use a third-party vendor for their district sites and all the school sites and when I go to this Vendor's website and I've experienced this with all the other ones that I've seen to find that that information about the price is very Very hidden. So are we looking at somewhere around $60,000 is a low ball figure for a big district? Yes, okay, so this is one of the bigger districts in the state of Kentucky where I live And so if I were to approach the school Like you had the issue with accessing that data and pulling that data down So how would I convince them that? Some of this data may get lost, but yet we see the cost savings on the other end So what would be your advice the argument is the argument would be is like if you migrate from one proprietary vendor to another Proprietary vendor you're gonna lose data. Okay, just there's very little you can do about it so migrating from an One vendor to wordpress you're still gonna lose some data But because you have a lot more control of what you can put into wordpress sure you can actually save a lot of that data And there's a lot of strategies for how to scrape websites and how to if you have the database itself You can actually do a table-to-table comparison and write a script to inject it It's there's guys here who could do it Webdose studios of Brian messing laner. He's fantastic at that stuff. Okay. Thank you I missed them the very beginning of your speech. So I don't know if you covered this or not. Have you Had to deal with ADA compliance see on any of your sites yet because there are several districts in Pennsylvania that just got sued for it Yeah Not specifically, but we did build the theme with ADA in mind so we made sure that it met the core level of the section of five-way guidelines and Mostly out of the box if you're using like a genesis or some kind of a framework all that's already done for you So it's just a matter of double-checking and making sure you don't miss something Now do you control the teacher sites with that also or do you educate the teachers? We have talked about moving all the teacher sites to wordpress But because it's not inside the department that I'm in it's a ownership issue So they want to use Google sites. We're like well, okay, you can use Google sites. We're not gonna stop you But we can find ways to get wordpress and Google sites to work together. So it's a kind of thing So I actually work for the school district of Philadelphia and we are migrating over to wordpress very soon It is a lot of websites and a lot of people managing content Over 300 websites that need to migrate over so my concern is how do I try to head off some of the issues? We think wordpress is very easy But some of those teachers and principals are not and I'm trying to figure out what is going to be the biggest hang up when I say you Now have to do this Again, it's again if you move from one system to another there's going to be retraining regardless So moving from a vendor to another vendor you have to retrain moving from a vendor to wordpress You still have to retrain there's no getting around it The nice thing though is that wordpress out of the box the ease of use for creating and managing content is By far the best in the industry For an open source product I mean you have to sell that over and over again that the ease of use and the usability of this product is so easy That you know a third grader can do it. I mean my daughter's in fourth grade and she's Programming stuff in scratch. I mean it's just like these kids are great And you know if you have the support structure in place get your high school kids involved get them you'll give them a mentor to work with and Get them involved in keeping the websites up to date because they're going to pick it up like that digital natives are like So there's no big hang up that we should be worried about as we proceed You're going to get a lot of pushback from the vendors of course the vendors are going to go Well, you know this and that and support and all that but if you can build those same kind of things in place You shouldn't have any issues. Okay. Thank you. Yep. Oh, we're done. Thank you everybody If you have any questions here for me I'm here afterwards