 with so that they can stay in power. Okay, we're back. We're live. It's the 5 p.m. block on a given Friday. I'm Jay Fiedel. This is Think Tech. And we're talking about research today. Research in Manoa and from Manoa. I guess the research we're talking about is from IFA, the Institute for Astronomy, which exists in Manoa on Woodlawn Drive there. It's a very important organization. It's world-renowned. In fact, Hawaii is world-renowned for astronomy. If there's one thing we do well, it's astronomy. There aren't that many things we're world-renowned for. Tourism, astronomy, I think I got it now. Anyway, Samuel Wilder King II is with us, and he is a co-organizer in the rally, the, what is it, the Imua TMT rally that took place yesterday on the baritaining side of the Capitol building, where hundreds of people showed up to demonstrate support for the TMT 30-meter telescope on Manakaya. That was really something. Sam, it's great to have you here. It's great to be able to talk to you. I wanna know everything about this. So what happened yesterday? It was in the paper today. It was a headline story. Yeah, I mean, it was good news. I was way happier than I thought I was gonna be when we started organizing it. I started organizing it. I've been trying to call people. I've been trying to find out who's running the PR for this operation and find out who's supporting it. And I was calling everybody I knew, and if I went on the Facebook groups, basically it's what happened. So I went on Facebook and I started, that's actually where I started. I was looking like, who is supporting this thing? And I heard that Imua TMT hashtag was trending. So it was the first thing I searched and I went in there and I was like, who's running the show? And Malia Martins was like, I'm running it. I was like, okay, what are we doing? She's like, I don't know what we're gonna do. I was like, we should get together and rally and she was like, okay, that's a good idea. Me and Malia, one other lady was talking to her like, okay, when can we all be there? And just me and Malia were the only ones I could be here and we're like, well, okay, we need some time to get this done and just do it quick. Cause I was ready to go like the next day. I wanted to be out there cause I saw this narrative going in a way that I thought was gonna be harmful for all of us. But Malia was like, no, no, no, we should do it right. And I was like, okay, okay, let's do it. And so we picked the day and then I started finding all these other Facebook groups as I searched for more and more, they're all disparate groups. They never that organized cause it was never necessary or it wasn't coordinated. And so we just started telling them all being like, hey, we're gonna do this. I went on Reddit. I was like, we're gonna do this. Like we're gonna do this. I didn't put my real name on Reddit, which my friends were like, you are insane. What are you doing? And so I was just like, let's go. And then at some point, so then we were pushing it. And I knew that I needed to get an op-ed out really to really get it out. Cause I didn't know who was out there and I'm sure that people out there weren't checking social media, they didn't know. So I knew the only way we were gonna get anybody to show up was by putting something in a public place. And I had some ideas of what I wanted to say and I knew there were links that needed to be put out there especially to the findings of fact and conclusions of law that the board of land and natural resources disputes. The second one, which lays out all the arguments and explains everything and how it's culturally compliant and the mountain is spiritual. I was watching a buy-in talk today and it was amazing. Aleppo was saying, the mountain is spiritual, it's not sacred. And I was like, I don't think he, you didn't read it in an offensive way, but he's saying it's spiritual, it's not a sacred place. And I was just like, it struck me today. But at the time of organizing, I wasn't thinking about that. I was just like, this thing explains everything. They tried to comply with all of these cultural elements. So I wanted to put it in a link. So I first went to Sylvie. I tried to be like Sylvie to do this. And it was interesting because at the time, Sylvie was like, yeah, we, I'm not knocking Sylvie. I love, actually, I love Sylvie. I think, well, I've written them some letters. So I haven't been super happy with their media coverage, but I do love those guys. I think they do a great job on a lot of things, but they couldn't take it. They had been overwhelmed with the article. They got so much, you know, the middles, they were like, we can't do it. So I was like, okay, I'm gonna go start advertiser. It's kind of funny. What happened with my, my grandpa's broken trust article. I didn't share it to that, but it was just, it came to mind. I was like, that's hilarious. But anyway, I put it in there and I, so I was like, okay, I guess I gotta try somebody else. So I went to start advertiser, I went to West Hawaii and then start advertiser got back to me first. And they were like, yeah, well, we'll do it. But what it was funny, they were like, cut it. Cause I had a thousand words and it was, it was much grouchier at the first time I went through. And so with my friends, they were like, start advertiser said, it's gotta be 650 words, not a thousand, I was like, okay. And editing always helps, right? It's always better. Making it shorter often makes it better. It's always, you never have time to make things shorter. That's the challenge, right? And so, and that's what I did. So I cut out all the words and I had like some friends. I was like, man, you guys got to look at this. Like, what are we gonna say? And then it was funny, you know, the last, the last person to edit it, it was, it was really true. The last person to edit it was my wife. It was really funny. Thank you. Okay, that was, love you. That's awesome. Well, it was a success. I love you guys too. No, the, yeah, so. And it's great to have it on a collaborative basis. Yeah, no, it was, well, no, no, no. What I was trying to get to was having fun with my wife is that she looked at it and it was like, you know, you gotta come at it from this positive place, you're trying to come at it. Especially the last, the last part of it, I was trying to get my message across being like, this is the story I want to tell. And I was very like, and I'm like, oh, I'm grouchy. And if you talk to any of my friends, they're like, oh my God, Sam, you gotta like stay quiet because you're gonna be way too grouchy and like aggressive. I'm like, okay, I'll try. And she put it, she was like, no, no, no, that's not what you're trying to say. Like, do it like this. And I was like, I, thankfully I was well raised to listen to my wife. So. You come from a great family, Sam. You know, I knew your grandfather. Yeah, he was, he was, man, I would, you know, it'd be fascinating to see what he thought about this, man, it would be, it would be really interesting. We know what side he'd be on for sure. Yeah, he'd be excited. He'd be excited. He'd be excited. You know, I think he'd be excited that people were talking. You know, because, you know, my grandfather actually, he, I mean, he was part of the Royal Order to come in, man. I mean, as far, and now that's not relevant to TMT. I don't think he would actually be objecting to TMT. But the other question that, you know, kind of is just coming up, the sovereignty question, he was, he was sympathetic to that point of view. Like, he looked at it and he's kind of, he had that analysis. He was not, he was never against it in that way. And so it was really interesting to me that he endorsed Hawaiian sovereignty Do the Facts Matter by Thirst and Twix. And that's one of the reasons I think that book is so interesting and people should read it. And like, I try to send out links to it because, you know, it's not perfect. It's got, it's got its issues and the arguments aren't all perfect. The quotes and citations aren't good. But my grandpa was like, and his quote on the back of the book is so, it's so good. I've re-read it so many times. What's the name of the book? Hawaiian sovereignty, Do the Facts Matter by Thirst and Twix. He outlines the reasons all, the entire narrative about the overthrow is completely wrong. And why are not- I send you a wilder king. No, no, no, it's, there's the Twix myth in the book. Ah, okay. Hawaiian sovereignty, Do the Facts Matter by Thirst and Twix. But he's the guy who ran the Honolulu Star Advertiser for like decades. Right, right, right. He knows what he's talking about. He knows what he's doing. My grandpa endorsed the book because he was saying, if anybody wants to advance the sovereignty debate, they need to read it. Not, not if you agree or disagree, just if you want to advance it, you need to read this book. Because I think there's a lot of people out there that they don't know, right? People think, I think most people, especially our generation, I knew I thought that. Like when I first, I, you know, to be honest, I never dug into it like I should have. Like probably all of us maybe, you know, we didn't, growing up, you kind of just thought it was a whole certain way. And I came back home and I was just like, oh yeah, obviously, you know, the United States came in and landed troops and invaded and we took it over. And you know, that's just kind of how it goes. And then you read this book, the first chapter and you're like, that is not what happened. Like, not even close. Like the troops were there, but that is not like how they were being used or what was happening. And it was this very complicated political game being played in the history. But people, you know, it got the apology resolution, which was completely one sided, completely ignored half. You know, there was two reports and they just ignored the report that refuted it in the apology. They just only did one. And UH Manoa, speaking of Manoa, one of the things I am upset about is they host the one report that's pro sovereignty is the Blount report, right? It says, oh yeah, the troops of Stevens, this ambassador was really bad, clearly America's culpable. But the report that's debunks that is called the Morgan report, right? And it comes out and says, none of that is true. And now, you know, you can balance whatever you want to balance. That's not the point. The point is there's an intellectual disingenuousness at the University of Hawaii because they host, now maybe they've changed this. They host the Blount report, at least when I was researching in law school, they hosted the Blount report on the UH, like some law school, like, not law school, but UH library website. Perfect link, you can read the whole thing. Morgan report, nowhere to be found. At best, they link to Ken Conklin's website. Ken Conklin is maintaining this document for us and it's, you do it by himself, right? So it's not perfect. He's anti sovereignty. Yeah, right. But it's also like, he hasn't got it all perfectly set up on a website where it's all one big PDF. It's hard to read. And it's like, that's dishonest, like, come on, just have the debate. But they thought they settled it, right? And now it's coming out again. Well, this debate is inherent in the whole protest against TMT, isn't it? Well, I don't think, well, it shouldn't be, but it is now, right? If you want to talk about the cultural importance of Mauna Kea and whether or not TMT is desecration, you can have a conversation about that and maybe it's really valid because I think there's actually another side to story. I think people have said it's sacred and it's not clear to me that the entire mountain, historically all time, was sacred in that way. I think there was always a balance and it's something to explore. That conversation alone could have happened. We could have all talked about it. But they might not have that good an argument, so instead latch everything on. And plus the equipment that builds a telescope moves really slowly and there's only one road. All you got to do is block it and then you can have a megaphone to talk to everybody. The hashtag, the rock or any actor you can pick up. The press has certainly covered it very well. They covered the protesters very well. The first time there's been a positive rally support at EMT, is this rally yesterday, am I right? That's as far as I know. That's why I did it because we needed it. I mean, I guess I'm talking to people that I know and all my friends are like, why? This is obviously a great idea, why aren't we doing it? So I was like, okay, well, my friends think this is a good idea. And then polls last year were out. Overwhelming numbers. I mean, then nobody's race should matter in this debate, but it does. And so that's just something we all deal with. And so when you look at the polls and you're like 70% of the state supports it, you're like, okay, whatever, 77% of the state, what are the Hawaiians doing? Apparently 72% of self-identified native Hawaiians support the TMT. And that blew me away because I thought I was the only one. And apparently I'm not even close to the Hawaiians. You're a native Hawaiian. Yes. Not as much as many of the people on the mountain or people that are out supporting the TMT. But you identify as native Hawaiian. Yeah, I do now. And not that I never did, but that's an interesting question. It's something I've, well, you know, you always, I don't know if I've ever struggled with it. I'd never bothered me at all to identify as native Hawaiian because I'm native Hawaiian. Are you conflicted about it? No, no, I'm not. I'm native Hawaiian. So your reasoning takes you to support the TMT. What is your reasoning, Sam? What are the reasons you support TMT? I mean, I start at Brass Tax, which is they're paying us $300,000 in rent and they're paying us a million dollars into an education fund to teach students in Hawaii, science, technology, engineering, math, get them into STEM jobs and they have a job placement program. That is awesome. And that's, and I've said it before and I'll say it again. It's thanks to the people that have been pushing back against the TMT. They got that deal and they were right. We've got a lot of telescopes up there that aren't paying any rent. And you know, there's a flip side to that because you pay rent, it makes the science more expensive for everybody and then it's, you know, it's harder for the students to get on there. There's a balance, but at some level, it's like, look, you're here. There's an aspect to which our society values this mountain and so you should be paying rent, so let's go. And now they're, but they're doing it, right? And there's cultural aspects where like, you don't build on the summit, you're not near Lake Waiau, so don't block these sight lines. So they did it. They moved it. So that was the conclusion. So like economically, that's obvious. Science, obvious. Land use, obvious. You're not going to build homes up there. I think leaving the resource completely empty, I think that's a terrible idea. I think it's an incredibly valuable resource and it's valuable and sacred and spiritual because of its value to humanity in addition to the cultural aspects. And I have no problem coexisting in those worlds. It's good for the state. Is that what you're saying? Well, it's not just good for the state. It's good for my people. It's good for the native Hawaiians. It's good for everyone. It's good for the Hawaiians. It's good for the native Hawaiians. It's good for the state. It's good for literally the entire human race. Let's talk about the rule of law. This has been through 10 plus years of litigation and application and contested case and whatnot and arbitration, you name it. We've had a lot of legal process on this. And at the end of the day, after 10 years of opposition in court, the Supreme Court ruled in favor of letting the project go forward. So we have a decision of law. And can you talk about the rule of law as it applies to this process and to where we are now? Yeah, I used to be a property lawyer. I used to work on property law development, free-listay law. I'd still do a little bit of that kind of stuff. But I've dealt with a lot of this kind of process. And the one thing you learn real quickly in Hawaii is that at some point we went over the line and process is now used as a political weapon to stop anyone from building anything. I mean, people wanna never build homes ever. And then everyone wonders, well, where are all the kids? Why are they moving to Vegas? So while you had EIS rules for every single possible project, it increases the cost of housing dramatically because people don't know how development projects work. And it's relevant to same T same thing. But if you wanna build a house, right? The way you get that project started, you gotta have an entrepreneur go out and do it. And the upfront cost of the EIS is a gargantuan cost with tons of risk. It's really hard to get an upfront investment on that because there's no guarantee of return. So it stifles all entrepreneurial housing. So only big guys can come in and you only have big developments and houses and there's no, you know, the big guys can wait. The big guys can wait on the land. They don't have to rush. But the entrepreneurs, they're the ones who get the cycle flowing. Anyway, so the point is that we start using process as political weapon and that's exactly what happened to TMT. And that's one of my biggest issues with it is just using the legal process to constantly delay and obfuscate good projects just because you disagree with it. Now, that being said, a lot, the process was done, right? And the TMT did it wrong and they got overruled by the Supreme Court. But we did it again and they stuck to it and we had a joint fact-finding session where every opponent who wanted to be there was let in and then all, they were all allowed to cross-examine every single witness. They allowed in virtually every single witness except I think one witness who only wanted to talk about sovereignty, which wasn't relevant. And so they talked about every single environmental cultural aspect of that thing for it was like three months they talked about this. It's on the news, just over and over and over. They vetted the whole thing. But in the end, yeah, you're absolutely right. I come down on the rule of law. The United States legal system I think is one of the wonders of the world. It's got issues, but so do most other legal systems that ever created. I think ours is amazing and I think we went through an incredible process to get this done and we went through a lot of joint fact-finding where people agreed, we got everybody in the room and we're like, so what do you think of this and this and this and they were like, that's what the answer is. Okay, that's how you do it. You know, if the protesters disagree, I would love to know what their alternative method of joint fact-finding would be. That's one proposal I would love to get. Well, I think one of the issues has come up is not only fact-finding, but it's deciding. You know, if somebody says, well, the people, I'm not saying who the people is, it's a big question. The people own the mountain. You have what people exactly? How do you define who speaks on this in a larger sense and how do you determine what their decision is? You have a vote, haven't we had legal process which is tantamount? Should we have another vote? How many votes do we need to have and what is the number of votes we need to achieve? Majority, something else in order to go ahead on a project like this? That's the thing. You know, it seems to me like if you have a process then you participate in the process and everybody should, everybody should vote. At the end of the day, you have to respect the decision of the process. But people here are not respecting the decision of the process. So they must have another process in mind. And what is that? Is that just a matter of staying up in the mountain and approaching the press and raising the voices and doing cultural things? Or is there some other way? And I don't get an answer on that. I don't think there is a valid answer. Once you've finished the legal process, isn't that it? Yes, fundamentally that's how it should always work. But there's a decent argument for civil disobedience. I mean, you know, there is the, I mean, I respect it. I respect the fact that people stand up for the police. That's what I was doing with the rally, right? The reporters are asking me like, what if nobody shows up? It's like, I don't care. I don't care if no one shows up. I'm gonna stand here by myself. I'm gonna tell my story. And that's what they're doing. Okay, I got you. And we're gonna talk about it, but you're right. Even in civil disobedience, there's rules, right? And that's actually something I did wanna touch on. Is that you gotta, there's rules to it all. And you can have that kind of civil disobedience. Our society can handle it, but you gotta do it to an extent and then you gotta stop. And that's where they haven't been like, they're now saying, we're not gonna negotiate. We're not gonna do anything. We're not gonna let you go up. There's absolutely no compromise whatsoever. That's unreasonable. You can't play the game like that. And you can't block the telescope technicians from going and maintaining the telescope. You can't break the property that's up there with no consequences. I can't believe they haven't been sued for civil damages. It's unbelievable that if those telescopes break, who's on the line for that? Is the state on the line or not arresting all of them immediately? Allowing these telescopes are in moon conditions, right? They gotta be maintained. You don't have a right to block them and just prevent anyone. You don't care what your argument is. You let them be maintained, at least what we have the discussion. Yeah, that's PONO too, isn't it? It's absolutely PONO. You're committing vandalism against the telescopes by blocking the technicians. The workers, okay, I see where you got some local argument. I still don't agree with you. I see where you're coming from. You break those telescopes. That is not acceptable. It's not a PONO way to do it. It's not the way we do it in this town. The paper reported that some 30, 40 people were arrested a couple of days ago. What happened to them? What, it will happen to them. What should happen to them? Should they be prosecuted? Should they be incarcerated? Should they be fined? Should they be imprisoned? What? My understanding of the arrests that happened was that they were staged. And the Kapuna were there. They wanted to be arrested so that they could have a sound bite on the media to say, we got arrested. And that's what they used it for. I mean, it was very well coordinated. They came out like, oh, you arrested Kapuna, you're so mean, but the Kapuna are all there. I mean, the cops were super nice. Everyone acknowledges. And you know it was staged because nothing happened. What was the, actually, one of my questions Governor Ege was like, not that I've talked to him, but what I'm just thinking in my head is like, why did we even do it? If you're not going to go, then why bother? But maybe there's an answer or you don't find out one day. Maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe it was just, they wanted to be arrested so they okay, we arrested you. I think it was, if that's what happens, it's disingenuous to then play it up, but whatever, who knows. And so to answer your question, no, I don't think that should be prosecuted. Forget it. Look, we had, you know who had the best quote, the best guy that came out. I mean, I love the rock, but the guy that had the best quote, I think it was Max Holloway. Max Holloway, I hope when we have a rally, Max Holloway and the rock show up, by the way. Max Holloway said something along the lines of, you know, guys, he's an MMA fighter, right? So he fights all day long. And he's, you know what guys, I haven't looked at this issue. I don't know everything, but I do know one thing. Don't fight. It's not worth it. We're all going to be, you know, we're going to be here when it's over. We're going to be together. So don't fight. And that was the best you could say. If you accept the fact though, that this protest, the protest on, you know, against the telescope is really, it's a proxy for other issues. And that it has demonstrated that the native Hawaiians who are activists can get together. They can organize themselves, as you said, pretty good organization. And they can stop or at least delay this project. Then won't that suggest there'll be more projects that'll fall in the same line and that we will have sort of an anti-progressive, you know, state progression going forward? So how do you deal with that? Is it a matter of money, Sam? You know, they say they don't want to negotiate and negotiation doesn't seem available right now. But is it a matter of paying more than that 300,000 in that, you know, million dollars you spoke of before? If there were more money, do you think this could be resolved? Is that in the cards? Well, first off, I don't know. I'm not on the phone with, they haven't direct messaged me to talk to me. I don't know what the protest is about. As far as I read in the newspaper, absolutely not. There's no money on earth that will stop them. And so at some point, that's gonna end with people being arrested and removed because I don't know how else you do it. But I think it's worth having a conversation before we get to that point. And that's kind of what I think is the most important thing going forward now. I don't think it's about money now. I think there's, maybe there's some people. And I think, you know, frankly, man, we get something else out of the international organization. Let's talk to them and let's move it forward. I don't know if that's fair, really. We all went through the process, like you said. But if they're willing to, you know, say, like, you know, we wanna help heal the community. We wanna, we recognize that we're here. And you know, we want us here, but we also, we recognize that it's all the cause of it. So you wanna build a cultural center or talk to some people that are like, let's build a cultural center that's about mountain of chaos on the summit, right? Like expand the cultural summit and like really dig into the details of the summit and like explore, you know, what the, about the protest and who was, and the supporters and see like how the story we got here, but also explore like the history of Mount of K and the sacred and the spiritual aspects of it. That'd be awesome. I think it'd be cool. I would love to go to that exhibit, especially after this, right? That's the thing, the state. Everyone's gonna learn something, that'd be great. Well, to be specific, on the capital side of Baratini yesterday, you had, my estimate was more than 200 people. I thought more like 250, but that's just me. I think somebody estimated about 300. Okay, that's good. On the other side, there were a couple of hundred people who were protesting against Mount of K, so it was really interesting both sides of the street processing, you know, expressing themselves against the other. And it was impressive to see the people come out from, you know, the paper said it was the business community, but it was actually the business community, the, you know, the academic community. It was, you know, progressives, if you will. That was the community I saw there. I saw a lot of people I knew, obviously. And so this is not the only counter protest that's gonna happen, right? There's a plan here, right? You know, it's like you have to maintain your position, maintain, you know, expressing yourself going forward, because if you don't, then it's only one hand clapping, right? I'm trying to formulate a plan. My plan is to continue doing rallies. I'm thinking about doing another one coming up as soon as possible, as soon as next week. I want to do another one. So I'm looking at last night out there and getting people to come out. So I definitely want to get that move forward. I haven't locked it all down yet, but that's what I want to do. I mean, I think we need to do something at least every week. I mean, we're doing something every month, for sure, on the 25th, we're absolutely gonna do another one, but I think we should be doing more. And I think that's what I'm gonna try and get people to come out and do. But what I've learned now, you got to organize. You got to call the groups that are, you know, just like the protest. You got to call the groups that are supporting it. You got to get them together. You got to build some sides. You got to get the social media. And that's the thing in the end. I think the way, you know, if there's a way to resolve it, that in a positive manner, and I think heals the community and benefits everybody, is we got to, at some point, get together and just, I think there's something we said for getting together on Mount Ok and having a conversation about it. Some of the protestors were inviting me over to Mount Ok. I was like, they were like, what would you say to the Kapuna that think it's sacred? I was like, I don't know, I haven't talked to them. They were like, this one guy was saying, you should come talk to them. I was like, okay, I'll come talk to them. So I think there's something to be said for having a conversation about it and really digging into it. Because like I said, there's been a lot of expertise and a lot of people have looked at this issue and they've said like, this is not a problem. This is culturally compliant. So I think it's worth, you know, having everybody get together and talk it out. And that's a way to really move forward. I think we're all gonna learn something. That's what I think is really interesting, you know. There's a chance here for everybody to learn a lot. And that's good. We got everyone fired up, right? Everyone's like paying attention now. And that's why I wanted to throw that link about that book and why in sovereignty do the facts matter out there, right? Because it's just, it's something no one's ever read and it completely blows a lot of misperceptions out of the water. It's like, learn something and you don't get those chances very often, right? It doesn't happen except when people are fired up. People are fired up. All right, let's go, let's go learn something. Let's learn about, you know, the aquifer on Mata Kea is not being affected. Let's learn about spirituality in Mata Kea. Let's learn about our history. Let's go, let's learn. Sure, hope it can be resolved, but let me ask you this. How is it can't be? You know, this is the ghost of Christmas future and Charles Dickens. What happens if it can't be resolved? What is gonna happen going forward? What's gonna happen to the constituency that showed up behind you yesterday? What's gonna happen to the people on the other side of the street? What's gonna happen to the state? What's gonna happen to the whole, you know, native Hawaiian issue? What's gonna happen to astronomy? I don't know, it's been interesting because a lot of the protesters have been saying that there's been support, they've been starting with the native Hawaiian community. They had a lot of approaches to how we're uniting the native Hawaiian community, but what they were uniting is the independence activists and the federal recognition activists, I'm assuming, and that's not me, so they're not uniting me. And so, I mean, I think there's actually some people on my side that do support that point of view, so that they're not being united. So it's not clear who they think they're uniting, especially since there's only a couple thousand people there and there's, you know, a million people in the state who have 100,000 native Hawaiians. So I'm not sure who they think they're uniting. The state's gonna be, we're gonna be left with, we're gonna be left with a big empty space where we could have been doing world-class science. I think the newspaper actually was reporting this and it was a great point I never even thought about. Why would you invest here in a telescope? Again, you're not going to. No one's gonna come back here to build a telescope if that's gonna be the protest every time. So that's it, that's the end of the astronomy, you know, the end of world-class astronomy. Maybe they do it on Maui, but why not go protest there next? I mean, maybe it's easier to do it. It may be the end of all science projects. Which is dumb. It's just dumb. I mean, we're gonna lose a ton of money. We're gonna lose a ton of science and a lot of value and a lot of jobs. That's why I came out. I strongly disagree with that idea. And the argument that, you know, it's, oh, you're violating our culture and it's this desecration and culture's the most important possible thing is like, well, that's a story you're making up about this, like you're adding that on. You can tell our story another way, which is completely culturally compliant and accurate historically that they can coexist. That's the story I wanna tell. Yeah, yeah. Sam, thank you so much for coming down. It's great to talk to you. I would like to do it again if it's okay with you. Absolutely. Samuel Wilder, King of the Second, so much great to have you. I appreciate it. I love you.