 All right, welcome back. It's still the breakfast and class TV Africa. We'll stay with the Cardona Abuja train attack. And of course, we know there are more updated, there are more revelations. And we have the railway union president general who will be telling us more of the things that have unfolded. But then again, also in the news, the high demand for water tickets has created an opportunity for shop practices at the rail station. Some corrupt officials have devised means of selling tickets to desperate passengers at under the counter rate. Well, the fear of abduction and robbery on the Abuja Caduna Highway and other roads in Nigeria, some passengers have no option than to buy the ticket at exorbitant prices. This is all coming in the wake of the Caduna Abuja rail track where more revelations, like I said, have been revealed as regards to the number of passengers. Joining us right now to look at this is the president general of the Nigerian Union of Railway Workers, Innocent, Gigi. Good morning to you, Innocent. Thanks for joining us on the breakfast. Good morning. Thank you very much for having me here. Yes, Innocent, indeed we've had you like once, twice on the show since I'm this incident. From what we understand that there are more details, there are more updates and revelations coming up. You know, what new information are you getting concerning this incident that has happened once and twice again this week? Okay, okay, thank you very much. It is really pathetic, it is really sad and we are not happy as a union and even as a railway worker. It is very, very unfortunate over what has happened to us. But the recent revelations I'm getting to know is that we have a comrade who is the secretary general of the trade union Congress of Nigeria. What he was also on the train and he was shot dead with the chairman of Kuala State Trade Union Congress. So these are the new revelations I got to know about yesterday. So, and our local driver, the person who drove the train and one of our train lightening staff, that is the person that takes care of the light on the train is still in the hands of the kidnappers. We are yet to hear any information from them and even the family are yet to confirm to us whether they have received any call from the kidnappers. So these are some of the new revelations we are getting to know. Well, we also hear that there's been an order by the federal government to suspend activities and train movement from that particular route. Can you please confirm this? Yes, yes, that is very, very true. And whether federal government suspends or not, it is even not possible for any train to run through that route except all the locals and the coaches that were affected by the incident are evacuated from the scene. And then the blasted portion of the track will have to be fixed back before any movement can take place on that axis. So it is very correct and it is very true that the movements have been suspended for now. All right, I've also either sent, I just need to bring this to your notice and also I can get a bit of clarity as to what is making the round across not just some social media but also in the news as regards to alleged racketeering, specifically what happened on the train that day. You might need to confirm all of this for me. From what we hear, what we heard about the manifest, there were 398 tickets bought, 362 confirmed boarded. How do we have 970 that were actually on board if there were 398 ticket bought and only 362 were confirmed to have boarded the train? Can you explain to me this disparity, this infraction? How do you explain this? Well, number one, I cannot confirm that that list you have was from railway management or from our own office because I actually came across the list also on social media but I tried to verify from the office but I'm yet to get that confirmed. Secondly, it will interest you to know that almost, I mean, most of our tickets, in fact, larger portion of the tickets are bought online. And so if there is any racketeering going on in the station, I cannot confirm that a railway staff is involved because we have a way of monitoring our staff. We have a way of monitoring our members. If, you know, for instance, you get to the station and you are unable to buy online, you can buy at the station at the ticket booth in the station. So we have not confirmed of any staff being involved on ticket racketeering. So, but however, anything can happen. It's just like in the airport that where you are in a haste to move, somebody can just get a ticket and then you use the name and then you have maybe a mode of identification to confirm that you own the ticket, this and that. So it cannot be equally avoided or it could also be possible that it's happening on our stations because you, as we are speaking, you can just go on our website and buy the ticket. So anybody can buy the ticket and try to do whatever he wanted to do. But I want to assure you that we have the presence of security there. And anybody who tries to do that and if alarm is raised, they are normally apprehended. So I cannot correlate the number on that list with the number of passengers on board. But I think the authorities that are in charge of the ticket, you know, that portion of selling of the ticket has been privatized to a private organization. So they manage the website, they manage the tickets and whatever is involved on that, they should at least be able to speak better. You are the president of the Argentine Union of railway workers. How many persons were on board on that train? Wendy's attack? Wendy, you know, our train has a simple calculation can give you the number of people on board. Our train is a train that carries about eight to 10 coaches. And on the economy class, you can have like 1995 to 97 passengers on the economy class. Then on the first class, you can have like 65 to 67 seats on the first class coaches. So which of course, if you put them all together, we are talking of about 800 to 900 passengers on board. But another issue is that that train... So you're saying that it's possible that about 800 to about 900 persons were on board. It's possible that you would have had that number. It is very, very possible they can be on board because at the time, our train can carry 800 to 900 passengers at a time. So it all depends on the patronage and mostly night trains doesn't normally get filled up with passengers because not everybody travels at night. So I cannot ascertain or I cannot assure you that the number of passengers on that train that was up to 900. Okay, but I still need you to talk about this train rocket here and because sometime in December, we went out to the rail lines and lots of people were stranded. A lot of customers and passengers these lamented that they couldn't really get access to ticket online that either the systems went down and then they noticed that they saw a lot of roundtripping and fast play around the railway services and all that. Are you telling me that right now that the issue of ticket you're carrying has stopped on our rail tracks or on our railway services? Well, I cannot show you that we have taken measures to stop our staff that were involved in that kind of thing because it will interest you to know that between that time and this year, about two to three staff were dismissed because of this kind of thing. And since then we have sensitized our members as a union and we have sensitized our passengers that they should try to buy their tickets legally. If you are unable to get your ticket online, go to the ticketing booth. You can get your ticket from there but any ticket you are buying from an individual, you should know that you are taking the risk that you are on your own. So if passengers are complaining about that, it means they wanted a short call into getting our ticket but if they follow the right channel, nobody will buy tickets for more than the official price that we have. So how does your system allow people to buy tickets not from the ticketing booth or online? How does this really happen? Thank you very much. There's an app that you just go to the, you can go to the Play Store and download. So once you download that app, you can be able to buy tickets on your own just like the flight ticket. Then if you are unable to buy online, you can go to the station. We have our staff at the station at the ticketing booth. It is clearly written. And once you get there, you will see our staff there and then you purchase if there are seats left on the train. But if you have to travel by 10 o'clock, you have to go like two hours earlier so you can get ticket because most of the tickets are normally exhausted even online. So if you don't go on time mode, but maybe if you want to, if you have to travel by two o'clock, then you have to be at the station to get your ticket as early as 10 o'clock. So but once we delay before you- I'm not sure you're getting the question here. You mentioned that there's a tendency that people can buy tickets, not at the ticketing booth or buying online. And now, if we have a system because in all of this, the argument here is that the manifesto that's been put out by the railway corporation is that you have 398 passengers on board and that's the manifesto that's been put out. But you also have the arguments that there were 970 persons and what was recorded was 398. And so if you had headcount showed that you had 970 which were not recorded, you only had those that were recorded 398. You have mentioned that yes, it's a possibility to manipulate the system. And I'm asking that how does your system allow for this manipulation that people can get tickets? On the one hand, you have mentioned the airplane just like you go to the airport and get a ticket. If I get a ticket whether online or not, it comes with some form, you have to show some form of identification. So I'm asking how of all of this, how is all of this excesses happening in your system? Because you have admitted to that. Okay, thank you very much. You see when the management of railway noticed that such things are happening, ordinarily before you can get your ticket and use any ID card so you can identify yourself to have access to the train. But now they have made it so mandatory that you must have a valid ID card. That is either a driver license, international passport or national ID card. So first of all, I have told you earlier on that I cannot ascertain the source of that list you came across to have been the names of the passengers on our train. And as I speak to you officially, I have not had access to that list also. I've been seeing it flying on social media. So if you are sure that that list is from railway management, then I am sure railway management should have some questions to answer on that list that you are exhibiting on the screen. So that is the position. So our system does not allow anybody to manipulate because between that December and this time, measures were taken. And if you don't have a valid ID card, you should know that you cannot write on our train. So that is the position. All right, thank you, Innocent Gigi. He is the president general of the General Union of Railway Workers. He brought us up to speed on the situation with the Kaduna Abuja train attack. And of course, the allegations of ticket racketeering and some disparity between the manifest that way, what is flying all over social media as regards the number of people who were aboard that particular train. Thank you once again, Innocent Gigi. Thank you for the opportunity. We look forward to it. All right, it's the breakfast on Plus TV Africa. We'll move away now from the Kaduna train incident. We're looking at something that is equally important. Let's talk about our children for a bit, talk about them, their development, talk about what they are doing, what they are doing online, what they are watching on television, what they are just even listening to on podcasts. How sensitive are these things and how positively or negatively are they impacting on their lives? We have a psychologist and a life coach who will be joining us in a moment to disclose all of that. Still with us when we return.