 What's the word y'all? It is time to talk Cleveland Cavaliers. A very interesting season for them while the rest of the league was getting smaller and smaller. They decided to run three seven footers and it worked. They have this new big three of Darius Garland, Jared Allen and Evan Mobley. And though the season didn't end the way they wanted to, they're trying to get better for the next. Of course, this is my series where I bring on some die hard fans to talk about their favorite team. So let's get into it with the chase down pod. And now I am joined by the co-hosts of the chase down pod, Justin Carter. Welcome on to the show. Thank you guys for being here. Thank you so much for having us. I'm excited. You should be fun, man. Yeah, it's dog days, the off season already. And we needed something to entertain ourselves with. So this is better than anything else. So I talked about this in the previous episode when I was talking about the Grizzlies where I wish that the NBA did some form of Spotify wrapped with their league pass, right? So it shows you, you watch this many games and this many minutes and this many hours. The reason I'm breaking that up is because the Cavaliers 100% would have been number one on my league pass list. I'm 100% certain of it. It would have been them, Memphis, and then maybe Lakers third just because it's the Lakers. But I've watched a ton of Cavaliers basketball this season because we're like kind of connected in a way after the Lauri market and signing trade. So I want to see what he was up to. And overall, I know it didn't finish the way people anticipated, but I would say as an outsider, a successful season, right? Absolutely. And the fun thing about watching the Cavs all season and following along on league passes, you've got to watch like four different versions of the team. Like you had the fun ball movement with multiple ball handlers, then all of a sudden it became like the Darius Garland show in January where things were still clicking post-Ricky Rubio and then everything fell apart. And then it wasn't as much fun in that chapter, but I still think they wildly exceeded my expectations. And you know what? You look at some of the best team building situations like the Warriors and all that. On the way up, you had some bad injury luck that gave you maybe that extra little chip that'll get you over the top. And I mean, Summer League is wrapped up. It's silly season. You just buy into all the hype and Occi Abaji is clearly our Desmond Bay now. Naturally, it all makes sense. No, it was a really fun year. You know, I said to our listeners all year, like you better be having fun right now because this is the most fun season as a fan. Like other than like the moment you win the title, like the no pressure, all surprise fun season is like the best as a fan. Every Cavalanch was a party. By the way, thank you so much for wearing that greeting from Sex Lancer. We got to respect the brand. It was just, I thought it was a great foundational season, you know? Like all Justin and I had been begging for the last couple of years was, oh, we didn't need to be a title contender again right away, but we just wanted the team to be more than the sum of its parts. Like, and they finally wore that, you know? They finally, you saw like pieces clicking together and really doing something special on some nice end. And that was just really, really gratifying to see. So you mentioned the Sex Lancer I had to represent. There's a world where this is like, this is over, right? Sex Lancer is no longer. You guys are probably more in the loop than I am about what Colin Sexton and his camp and the Cavaliers are thinking about, but what's the likelihood that this shirt will be more of a throwback? I hope it's not. I mean, I've got the Sex Lan poster right behind me. I'm not ready to get off of that train just yet, but I mean, it's such a unique situation because right now the Cavs have 15 NBA contracts spoken for, like they need to clear a roster spot. And I think all the reporting seems to suggest they want to avoid the luxury tax. I think right now they're about 15 million below that. So maybe all of a sudden you get a little more flexibility if you move off of one of those contracts and you can offer a deal. I just think like looking at the market, it seems like there's not a lot of homes, like a lot of teams. The only teams with cap space are Indy and the Spurs. And Indy's loaded with guards and the Spurs aren't trying to win. So I don't think that's going to happen. Although, as you alluded to before with the Lowry situation, you never know who's interested, right? Like there were no Cavs rumors about marketing and then four weeks into free agency, all of a sudden that sign-in trade happened. So I wouldn't rule it out, but I'm still optimistic that Sexton will be back with the Cavs. Yeah, the thing is, I mean, what I think even a lot of Cavs fans are forgetting is that the Cavs have a qualifying offer out to the guy. I mean, like it's barring a sign-in trade. It's literally guaranteed he is back next year. I mean, unless they decide to withdraw the QO, which they're not going to do. So I think at the minimum, we should expect to see them together. But I think it's probably a pretty major dent. I mean, if you're calling and you didn't get a long-term deal and you had to play on a QO, like you're probably not feeling super endeared at that point. But you can't rule anything out, but I do think we'll at least get to see the proof of concept early on in the season. Cause I do think he's going to be here, whether it's on a qualifying offer or if they can please figure something out. But Justin and I are both on team figure something out. We both are big Colin fans. So I was watching that game, like I mentioned a ton of League Pass Cavaliers and it was against the Knicks if I'm not mistaken. And there wasn't a moment with the injury, right? There was no him on the ground holding his knee. I think he went into halftime and just didn't come back out. And on the broadcast, they were like, hope he's okay and he never came back. And it was such a sad story. But I think the silver lining was like, Ricky Rubio almost had 40 that game, right? And then, you know, he was so very important. It was at the point where I was meming, of course, where like I had a NBA All-Star Ballot, Ricky Rubio, Ricky Rubio's at the top of the list. And now the off season has come and he's back. So talk to me about the off season for the Cleveland Cavaliers from your perspective. I'm excited about it. Like I'm not counting on Ricky to be a big contributor. Like honestly, I think how will Meadow is a better backup point guard than they had for the majority of last season. Because Ricky only was here for about 30 games and then he got hurt. I think it's an improvement from Brandon Goodwin and Rajon Rondo and some of the other options that they had to explore last year. So I think Ricky signing a three year deal is kind of there to help these guys along, like help be that coach and that mentor. And then hopefully, whether it's later on this year or next season, he's able to come back and you know, contribute in whatever way he's available to do. But it really feels like bringing in those veterans, bringing in those backup point guards, bringing in Robin Lopez. It's all about kind of like supporting the young core that they have and seeing what those pieces can do when they're not being asked to do too much. And personally, like if we're starting the year and it's Colin Sexton and Karis Leverde as kind of the backup ball handlers, I think you can actually get a pretty good second unit offense with those guys, whether it's both of them coming off the bench or staggering, whatever the case may be. I think that can actually work out, especially if you're relying on maybe mobility or love to provide some front court playmaking. Yeah, I think like when you look at this off season, they certainly didn't trade three first round picks for Dijante Murray. You know, there's one way to go and then there's the way the Cavs went. And like, you know, Justin, I think said something really made a smart comment which I hesitate to ever comment on. I rarely do it, but I appreciate you bringing it up. But you said that next year is probably the win now year where you start making some win now moves. This year is the win with what you have now year. You know, and like I thought that was a really good way. Like they're gonna try to win as many games as they can. This is not like a tanking team or like let's just develop the young guys. Like they're gonna play the guys who helped them win the most, I think at least. But like you look at, you know, Robin Lopez, Howell Neto, Ricky Rubio, even their draft pick, Ochaibajie. Like these are all floor razor picks, not ceiling razor picks, you know, and I think what they're betting on is that they've got plenty of ceiling razors at the top of their roster already and Darius, Evan and Jarrett. And they just are looking for 16 game players, dudes. Cause they got into the plan and you can kind of see JB looking around going, I don't really know who I'm supposed to trust here around my big three. And of course, Jarrett only played in one of them. I think they are on the hunt for 16 game players and I think that's kind of what they looked at this off season. So you guys mentioned Abadji's name a few times. Candly, I don't watch any college basketball. So like my introduction. We don't either. Okay, great, we're all together. My introduction to a lot of these players are Summer League and pretty successful Summer League for me, but I want to go back because I read articles after drafts to try to figure out who won and who lost and obviously nothing is ever really true until the careers are over. But from the ringer, Kevin O'Connor, he gave the pick a C plus, which is the worst at the entire first round. But on the other hand, CBS Sports gave it an A plus. So I have no frame of reference on whether or not this is a good pick, an average pick or anything like that. But I was there Summer League the first couple of days and we got to watch and I was like, I understand the pick. You know, I think he was one of the older people drafted. But as you guys mentioned, floor razors and things like that. I can see it. I can see exactly what they were going for. Yeah, like he's 22 years old and I always push back on the whole concept of like finished product. Cause even if you look at like the most improved winners over like the last decade, half of them came into the league at 22 years old, right? Like when these guys are getting with pro trainers for the first time in their career, there are obviously room for growth, right? And I mean, some of the, even the runner up like Desmond Bain was in the mix for most improved Buddy Hill was 24 when he was a rookie. Like I think when you're talking about a 22 year old you're not all this, you're not expecting him to like add something out of the blue. Like I'm not expecting him to all of a sudden have handles like Kyrie or anything like that. But I can see him improving along the margins and improving what he does well currently and elevating that at the NBA level. And I think you look at summer league and he was like, there were no easy shots there. Like he was coming off of screens, he motion floppy elevator doors. Like they can run all sorts of different types of plays for him and he can get his shot off. And when you look at last season, there was never, there's no one on the calves that could do that kind of stuff. Was the best volume three point shooter for them. Jettie Osmond was hugely important for them mid year because he's like dude who's willing to fire off movement from three. They just don't have a lot of those guys. Even when Colin was healthy, Colin really likes to kind of take us, take a second get set there. They didn't have these quick trigger three point artists on the team. And like, you know, with Abadji, like I think we were both like, okay, solid pick. Like we weren't like over the moon. And one of the reasons I kind of wanted to preach a little patience with, with Kaz fans is, you know, with these high floor players, there's a lot of like this impulse to assume that they're definitely gonna be good at all this stuff they were good at in college right away. And like, I think JJ Reddick shot like 33% from three his rookie year. Like that NBA line is no joke. Like there's a difference. And so like, you know, and with a high floor player, maybe a lower ceiling player like Abadji, if he didn't have the jumper, I was like, oh God, but dude can shoot and he can play defense. They didn't have someone that could do both. Yes. And that's a huge, huge addition. It's such a picture perfect fit for them. And I just don't see how this guy doesn't get minutes on this team, even with the crowded group at the two and to some extent, the three though, obviously the, you know, big threes is a weakness of the team to be clear. But like, you know, I do think Abadji clearly can fit the role and he looks and that's why you gotta, you know, give shout out to the cap scouting team. Cause they're like, okay, no, we just do can shoot. He can play this role for us. And it looks like they nailed it as far as I'm concerned so far. So we've gone a little while without mentioning the name Evan Mobley story. I got flown out, flown out. I flew out to California pre-draft for a shoot where they had me interview a bunch of players that were in the draft. And then after the shoot, there was like this very light run where these up and coming players that were to be drafted in a few weeks were just gonna play around and play some hoops. And it was my first time ever watching Evan Mobley play basketball. And in that moment I said, this guy's a star. And he was going, they were going at 70% maybe but the way he was moving was something I haven't really seen and I was extremely excited. So when he ended up at number three, I was like, oh, this should be interesting. Jared Allen is there. Does he project more of a four than a five, right? A four to five. And it turned out didn't matter cause they decided to do something that we haven't seen in a very long time and run this three seven foot footer lineup. And I remember, I have my bat takes like everybody else does. We were talking about that off season on my podcast and I was like, there's no way in hell that Laurie Mark and Evan Mobley and Jared Allen works. And then we get to the regular season and it worked. And I think a lot of that is due to Jared Allen and Evan Mobley just being so versatile on the defensive side of the ball. So that is the reason I think it started off immediately that I wanted to see the three big man line up. That's why I started watching the Cavs. And when I saw work and I was like, okay, I got a tune in every single day. So talk to me about Mobley, man. Mobley is just a guy. Man, we were skeptical about the three big lineup too. And I think the Cavs just prioritize skill sets like more than what position you are. And Larry was their best path to getting spacing on the court. But I remember Cardin and I both were in Cleveland for opening weekend where the Cavs played the Hornets and the Hawks. And we saw Evan Mobley comfortably switch on to Lamella ball and Trey Young and lock them up. And we were preaching patience with them. We're like, okay, this guy's, he's going to do a lot of like kind of nuanced stuff and just really understands the game, but it's not going to be anything flashy. And he completely exceeded our expectations. And honestly, like I still think it's like a bit of a blind spot for us at times because he's so quiet and unassuming. Like we don't get like super, super hyped about him or at least as much as we should. But this guy- I feel like I have to talk like wider NBA Twitter down sometimes, which like how often is like a super fan? Are you like, guys, chill a little bit. But he's just like a ridiculously special talent. And you look at kind of the progression throughout the season. Like obviously the tandem of him and Allen working so well is a big part of why the Cavs were good. Like you look at the Cavs with Mobley and no Allen, the defensive drop off is identical to the drop off of Allen with no Mobley. Like the two of them work so well together. And I think when you're talking about reasons for optimism with the Cavs, it's that Garland, Mobley and Allen only played 40 games together last season. And they already fit so well. So as Mobley continues to like add an outside shot and add things to his game, that those three are only going to fit better. Like the fact that they work so well, they won so many games, the stats were good, the eye test was good. Like that is just so, so encouraging to have that as your foundation moving forward. To me, you know, there's been all these comps thrown out, you know, you get a lot of KG because of the body and the frame. You get some Bosch because of the way he can kind of handle and hit that mid range jumper and hit that turnaround in the post. To me, like the only comp I ever really use with him is Duncan. And I think it's because of the way he feels the game. Slim Duncan, baby. Slim Duncan. I love that he can really, really impact the game while putting up 19 and 11, you know? Like, and like you can really, really feel him. And like, I do think there's some people who think his game is going to evolve to become like this AD style volume scorer. And I don't actually see that and I don't actually care. Like, I think this dude can be a top five player in the NBA averaging 23 points a game. Like his feel, and not necessarily just in the counting stats, but like just the way he kind of occupies the geometry of the floor on both ends. Like, I just think he has whatever it is on both sides. And like, it just, the sky is the limit for him. Like there's so many things that he can get better at still. And he is so impactful. Like he, like, I mean, the best compliment you can ever say is that for a rookie is that they are good as an NBA player, not as a rookie. And I thought he was a great NBA player right away. And like, I don't even know what to make of a guy. So I was listening to Zach Lowe's podcast and somehow they got to talking about the Cavaliers. And I think it was through the Lakers. But anyway, I'm going to ask this question. You usually is, yeah. Yeah, right. I'm going to ask this question because you guys are Cleveland guys. LeBron is going to be a free agent relatively soon. Via Zach Lowe's podcast, the Cavs will have cap space around that time. How welcome do you think LeBron would be to come back considering the success with the younger guys? Did that change up anything? I think he'd be welcome. Like, I think people would embrace it. I'm skeptical. Like, I think he's probably going to stay with the Lakers and maybe like at the end of the career you kind of get like the farewell tour kind of thing. But I think he's probably going to stick it out with the Lakers. But obviously, like we, Carter already mentioned it, one of the biggest gaps is a big wing, right? And he would be a perfect- How about the best one ever? Yeah. And as long as like, if he came back, you wouldn't want all of a sudden Garland's traded for Chris Paul, Allen's traded for DeAndre Jordan or whatever the case may be. Like, you wouldn't want that sort of thing because now we're invested in this, right? Like, it's something that's organic and it's a much better foundation than even the one he returned to in his first return. So I think people would be open to it. I'm just skeptical. I'm just skeptical that it would happen next year. Like, I can see him signing like a one-year deal and kind of feeling out the market to see where Brony ends up and that sort of thing. But like, I don't know how much the cap space like even factors into it because at the end of the day, like, sign-in trades are back in vogue, right? And I think if they were looking to add them or if they were looking to do that sort of a deal, I would assume it'd be a sign-in trade more than like preserving cap space for that because there's other wings on the market too and pieces that could really help the calves moving forward beyond LeBron James. Yeah, Justin is, you know, just a hate-and-ass hater. Bring him home. Bring him home. It'd be a lot of fun. I think, you know, the things that are appealing to me about a LeBron return is that, so obviously the first time it was, you know, kind of all LeBron all the time, clearly the sporting cast wasn't there. And then even the second time, even though the Kyrie piece was there and the love trade was clearly kind of preordained, like he was coming to save us. It's kind of, I don't know, maybe I'm sentimental. It's kind of fun to be like, why don't you come home? We got you there. Yeah, yeah. That was a nice little venture in LA. He's been flying to have someone to give the torch to. That's what Anthony Davis was supposed to be and so far hasn't been that. And kind of Kyrie though, you know, I think to some extent he can own some of that with some of the reporting out there. But yeah, I don't know, I'll tell you what, when we were in Cleveland for All-Star, Justin and I had our ears perked up, like for the starting lineup announcement, we're like, wonder what the reception's gonna be like. Like, is it gonna be a little more mixed? Is that gonna, like, what's the, erupted huge, huge reaction. So like, I think like there will always be, even the people who are grumps about it, I think once you see the guy, once you start re-watching the basketball brilliance, it's like, of course you want him back. At least that's me. And the drama, I don't know. Like I'm at the point where, you know, maybe I'm getting older. The drama I just think is funny. And like, I don't get worked up about it anymore. And there's always gonna be a circus that comes with LeBron. I think it would be fun to have him back and like the idea of, I mean, plus, I mean, just, I love basketball in a core of Darius Garland, LeBron James, Evan Mobley and Jared Allen. Like, as fun as can be, yeah. That's about as fun as basketball can get. So I think that, but yeah, it's gonna be interesting. That's for sure. It's low leaning into it so hard on that last podcast was like, oh, like, I don't know, that caught me off guard that he was so willing to go so far out there like that. I did not expect that from a careful guy like Zach Lowe. Yeah, it makes no sense for me to enjoy the Cavs as much as I do considering we're supposed to be division rivals. Even though I guess the visions doesn't, they don't matter. They don't matter. They don't matter. But I see you with the J Ram shirt. That's definitely a point where we're clashing heads right now. But I appreciate you guys coming on to the show. Anything other than the podcast you'd like to plug, I'll put everything in the description. No, it's basically just the podcast. I don't know, Carter, if you want to plug all your eSports stuff or whatever the case. Oh, you're a big eSports guy? Oh yeah. That's what my day job is. I'm a, I work in eSports production, but now we don't write anymore. We're lazy podcasters now. So if you come find us on YouTube on the Cavs official channel or find us on any of your favorite podcast platforms, that's where you can come listen to us. Cool, I appreciate you guys stopping by. Awesome. Thank you so much for having us.