 You're live Veronica, so we started a video live and Veronica's response is to type furiously She's probably managing a product already Hey, there's silver blade so There is a new Roku app in the works for the Daily Tech news show There there's already a Roku app out there that one one person developed But I'm not sure if they released it into the store or not do a search for Daily Tech news show and Byron Made one that works great. I was trying it out over the weekend He came to our LA meet-up as well. It was nice to meet you cool So yeah, so there's Daily Tech news show app in the Apple TV store. There shouldn't be one in the Roku store If it's not there now, it'll be there soon. You can also use alpha geek medias app or diamond club TV's app We're everywhere very nice. Watch us do these crazy little things called shows Crazy little thing called shows Was designed to have that effect and it worked Got dog body over here. I was bodega. She's good. She had a good weekend with her uncles Playing at the beach nice Doing fun stuff Yay We got an electronic piano. I Saw on Eileen's Instagram or something She's playing she's relearning. Yeah getting back to it very cool. She grew up playing piano, but she hasn't played in years So yeah, it's gonna be good very cool work life balance machine. That's what I call it. There you go All right, should we start a little early then? Okay, here we go This is your captain speaking I'd like to take a moment to remind you that this show is brought to you by listeners like you who give value for value To show your support go to daily tech news show dot com slash support We know you have a choice when it comes to getting your tech news and on behalf of the crew I thank you for choosing the Daily Tech News show This is the Daily Tech News for Monday March 28th 2016 I'm Tom Merritt joining me today. Ms. Veronica Belmont host of Dear Veronica and Lady of the Internet The sword in the sword and laser sword in the sword and laser. Thank you. Yes Keep stay tuned this week's sword and laser We're gonna interview Charlie Jane Anders the author of all the birds in the sky and I will be telling people more about a book that I wrote It's very I'm very excited for you tease ahead. Thank you We also on the show today will be joined by Matt Hartman VC investor at beta works and host of doing your business podcast to talk about chatbots We talked about his medium post previously on the show and now we're gonna bring him in to talk to him himself Yeah, and I'm really excited about that because as everybody in the audience knows I'm kind of really into bots and artificial intelligence and machine learning and things of that nature and Matt is also very excited about those things So I think it'll be a great conversation and there's still time by the way if you go to reddit We have a thread open So if you have any questions during the interview that you want to drop into the reddit thread or beforehand now That it's top of mind. Yeah, feel free to do so and jump in we'll be we'll be checking up on that as the show progresses And that's for the live listeners if you're not listening to this live Which we know most of you probably aren't you can still put your question in there Maybe we can convince Matt to ask it answer a couple questions over there as well. Good idea Let's start off with the headlines First of all public service announcement Instagram is not turning on their new algorithm yet Despite what you may have seen from panicked Instagram users asking you to turn on notifications for their posts Just it's the ground itself said Not turning on we hear you not turning it on yet. We'll let you know when we're turning it on We're not turning it on yet So you have to like subscribe to people that you've already followed in order All they're doing is what Twitter did where some things will show up at the top of your post Non-chronologically because they think you're more interested in them and then eventually everything will be chronological again But everybody's freaking out because it hasn't started yet It's gonna be all dog photos all the time the algorithm is gonna get me even though I don't necessarily want that whatever Now the actual headlines Oculus co-founder Palmer lucky flew to Alaska to deliver the first Oculus Rift headset to Ross Martin the headset was signed by all the founders of Oculus and lucky streamed the moment on Facebook live Of course Facebook owns Oculus Martin was the first person to pre-order the rift back in January Which is a feat all of its own with as many people as we're trying to order it So kind of it was a cool touch. I liked it. I think that's really sweet. It definitely kind of Not congratulates what's supposed to word I'm looking for honors Sure Yeah, I mean he that was pretty cool that you get to be number one I'm kind of cracking up that he's all the way up in Alaska. Yeah, I know right And they delivered it to him at work and he couldn't use it on his work machine So like he couldn't actually use it till he got home later that day. Oh, thanks guys. Yeah, thanks a lot But I think Palmer lucky. I mean he started this You know this from scratch. This was his idea So I think he was really excited to put it in the first consumers hands as well. Yeah, it's a comfortable circle Periscope also getting some accolades. It's been available for a year and celebrated by releasing some usage numbers usage numbers usage numbers More than 20 million broadcasts have been made since it launched 100 million since January Users watch around 110 years worth of live streams a day in at the app. That's incredible Yeah, that doesn't count people watching a live stream embedded in Twitter. We're just talking about in the Periscope app I think you said 20 million by mistake. It's 200 million Since long 200 million broadcasts. I was still focused on usage numbers, of course But a hundred million since January is really the impressive number there and poor and poor meerkat speaking of honoring They're still around don't forget about meerkat. They're they're looking to pivot actually on everything I've read shows that they are kind of moving towards Maybe the more destructible conversation kind of kind of bent. I'll snap chat Started anyway, we'll stay and still does and gadget passes along a translation of a Nikkei interview with Sony's Masasayo itu and which he says Sony is considering plans to let the PlayStation VR be used with PCs now I think ito is just dropping a bomb here to to get some press because considering plans. I mean They could be doing that forever, right? But there is no reason it couldn't be used with PCs Being the PlayStation 4 is essentially just a PC Wall Street Journal now says its sources say an upgrade of PlayStation 4 with better hardware that could handle 4k and Better VR could be coming in the third quarter So more reports piling up that we might see a rev to the PlayStation but not actually a new PlayStation 5 just strange Yeah, PlayStation 4 with like better internals essentially like a PlayStation 4 plus Yeah, some people Yeah PlayStation 4 s here's the thing I have a PlayStation 4 and I'm looking forward to trying out the PlayStation VR Which I have pre-ordered so that I can talk about it on the show I will be upset if they put out a PlayStation 4.5 later After I could have bought a bundle. You know what I'm saying. Yeah That would be annoying to a lot of consumers. So I I'm with you on that I think it would be a bad idea and probably Piss off more people than it would make happy with the upgraded specs. I don't know Pandora has replaced CEO Brian McAndrews with co-founder Tim Westergren Westergren served as CEO of Pandora from 2002 to 2004 Independent board member Jim fuel was named the board's new chairman and Pandora reported a slight decline in listeners in Q4 to 81.1 million. Yeah There were a few other executive shake-ups moving people around putting people in new roles at Pandora. It sounds like they are Probably still wanting someone to acquire them but need to polish the ship up a little more before they can get Somebody on the line on the hook if you will Pandora such a strange They have such a strange market fit right now because everything is really all about on-demand streaming And I frankly I don't want to pretend like I use it anymore because I don't and therefore I don't really know what new features they've they've adopted in recent years But it seems like most people are leaning towards the Spotify's and the Apple music's of the world instead of kind of Relying on an algorithm to choose more randomized music based on on tastes It's more like we're a lot more selective about what we're listening to but I could be wrong Well, there's that but there's also things like Spotify's discover weekly and I know in Google music Which I use there's there's a a bunch of different playlists if you're in a mood for something So a lot of the the things that I used to use Pandora for back in the day now exist in services that people pay for And if you're paying for a service, why would you need to pay for another service or even use another service for free? When it's already in the service that you're using so I think I think what Pandora needs to do is polish the product back up and Offer some compelling reasons why you want to live in the Pandora universe remember they bought Ardeo What was left of Ardeo anyway? So I could see them rolling in something that is a Spotify competitor in the Pandora universe and and I mean They're known for their algorithm They're known for for really catering tastes around people's likes and dislikes and so I can I can see them creating a pretty competitive product to discover weekly and two things that that Spotify is currently working on if they can add the the feature set from Ardeo that was great that people loved especially the reviews and So yeah, we'll see NTT data Corp announced Monday. It has agreed to buy Dell's IT consulting business for 3.05 billion dollars Dell needs the money because it's in the middle of acquiring EMC pending EMC shareholder approval Dell's IT services division also formally pro systems. Yes Perot Perot and we'll give NTT data a larger presence in North America So interesting enterprise shifting of the landscape, but everybody gets a little something that they need Google search became accessible in China for more than an hour before blocks on the service were reestablished Want want Google introduced new web servers to the region and it took a while for them to be recognized China blocks access to inappropriate websites and Google does not self-center its search results in China So if they add new servers and start having Google and China It has to be China to figure out that Google is working and then censor it So for a while the Internet was free or the Google Internet was free for Chinese some of it was yeah Yeah, an interesting take especially with Google making noises about returning to China with Android anyway That they wouldn't have cooperated more closely. I can't imagine that this went down well with Chinese authorities that Oh, no these web servers The blocks didn't work anymore. I kind of love it. I can't I kind of love it. It's kind of like a big On a somewhat sadder note as has become standard practice Facebook turned on safety check negotiations after the bombings in Lahore Pakistan Sunday The notifications sometimes arrived by text messages and say things like have you been affected by the explosion With instructions then on how to reply you can usually like tech text the word safe back or reply to the Facebook message with Safe this time however some people outside of Lahore Pakistan received the notifications As far as ways as the United States in the UK in some instances causing a little bit of confusion Facebook apologized for that They said it was a bug But it it was a little unsettling to folks given the Unfortunate repetitive nature of these kinds of events to have a text message is saying did you or you affected by the explosion? Immediately people are turning the news saying what explosion what happened this time Yeah, I had a lot of friends on Facebook who were posting pictures of that notification saying I got this it was a little weird But yeah, I mean, I'm glad that face. This is a great feature I think that Facebook has added but yes, it can be under the wrong circumstances be confusing and a little fear inducing for sure Uber has added a feature to its app called code on the road Yes, code on the road It has 60 second coding and debugging tests to help you while away the time during your ride The feature is showing up in cities with large numbers of tech workers like Boston Seattle and Portland not San Francisco If you do well in the games, you might get an email address to apply for an engineering position with Uber What a funny what a funny way to get applicants and Fascinating it's like they want you to be a user. You're already clearly a user of the app if you're in the car using it and You're like I just think it's a it's a cool way to recruit people And we're not saying it'll never show up in San Francisco. It just hasn't nobody seen it there Maybe they don't need to help recruiting there as much But yeah, it is it is pretty crazy like the the selection bias there is you have to look at code on the road And be interested in it, right? Yes, and then like you say you're using Uber You're sitting in the back doing little 60-second hacker challenges Putting stuff together it reminds me of all those sci-fi books where you know People are solving puzzles on the internet and then suddenly get they reach out and get recruited by the secret society That is looking for the most intelligent people on the planet to hell or it's Andrews game. Yeah So my guess is that as much as Uber is saying This is to hire developers that they are actually looking for some sort of interplanetary defense force And if they really are debugging the app while you're using the app They're also getting kind of like decentralized crowdsourced Engineering support they'd be so like Uber wouldn't it? Yeah. Oh my god That's we buried the lead. I think you're right Like they're doing distributed code fixing. Yes. How funny I wonder how much of that is true There's got to be a little truth in there. It's just too good One of my mentors works at Uber and products. I'll have to ask him. Yeah. Yeah, good. Drop a line. Let us know Okay, I'm excited about this one BQ has started taking pre-orders for the 10-inch Aquarius M 10 Ubuntu tablet comes in two models 259 euros for a 1080 by 800 screen and 299 euros. I'm sorry for a 1280 by I was like that's a Bad display 1280 by 800 and 299 euros for the 1920 by 1200 both have two gigabytes of RAM 16 gigabytes of expandable storage because they have the SD card slot shipping is expected to begin the second week of April and they can be used as computers, right because they're Ubuntu So if you plug them in to keyboard mouse and a screen Then you can use them just as you would an Ubuntu computer It's not the highest powered Ubuntu computer But you could you could do a lot of the things that you would normally do on it I think that's pretty neat and the price is right. Yeah Sam mobile good old Sam Spotted an interesting device name in the changelog for the Samsung level app the galaxy s7 active It's not a huge shock as each galaxy s phone since the s4 has had a rugged waterproof version called the active However, the s7 is already waterproof So an s7 active would likely have stronger waterproofing and Emphasize its durability more. Yeah, a lot of people were looking at this saying well, why would they need an active? That's already waterproof right and Sam mobile pointed out. Well, it could be military waterproof They're there why there's waterproofing and then there's better waterproofing And the active is always supposed to be stronger more durable and obviously it still would have the ruggedized case and all of that sort of thing Samsung is not responding of course But it doesn't surprise me they've had an active pretty much every beat I would assume they would be coming out with one It is a little bit of a harder marketing challenge when you've got you know hip-hop artists out there pouring water over the Samsung Galaxy S7 and in ads right now to say well You need to pay extra for the active because then what you could dive down to the bottom of the ocean with it I don't know. Yeah, I don't know That's uh, that's curious. They're more active her So S7 activist yeah, it's very rugged can survive many demonstrations So there's a military grade of of waterproof. Yeah, what it's called. It's like it's it's more than just the IP Rating there's a military grade of durability that they mentioned here mill STD 810 g Military grade protection from liquids particles drops and other things. Remember. It's not just liquids too. It's also dust Mm-hmm and drops. I suppose. Yeah Exactly And finally Taiwan's TSMC signed an agreement one day with the Nanjing City government in China to invest three billion dollars in advanced wafer manufacturing facility there TSMC referred to it as a 12 inch fab and design Service Center production is scheduled to begin in the second half of 2018 TSMC already owns an 8 inch chip making plant near Shanghai but just a Sign that we're seeing the Taiwanese Manufacturing magnets realize that there are a lot of chip making companies Opening up in China and a lot of manufacturing is done in China So if you want your chips to be bought you need to have that factory in China. It looks like wafers and chips This was about computer chips. Oh and wafers. Oh that are that make for a delicious high-end computing Perfect. Yeah So thanks to everybody who submit stories get in there and do some submitting for us folks daily tech news show reddit.com Is the place to go Steve IO and Captain Kipper for example both submitted stories that were used in today's show and And and as Peter Wells mentioned on day six yesterday Sometimes you can just go in and spend the afternoon looking at the daily tech news show reddit.com and find all kinds of interesting things We don't always have time to cover all of it here on the show So to get in there and do some voting if nothing else daily tech news show reddit.com and that is a look at the headlines So joining us now mr. Matt Hartman VC investor at beta works and host of doing your business. Thank you for joining us Matt This is great. Thanks for having me So Veronica you start us off here because you were the one who noticed the post that Matt wrote on medium That got us talking the other day. Yes, so of course as most of the audience knows as I mentioned I'm kind of obsessed with bots right now. It's something I talk about and think about a lot And I read Matt's post the hidden home screen over on medium And it really got me thinking about a lot of stuff And then we actually had a chance to meet in person and chat about this stuff And I thought it made a lot of sense to just bring on the show to talk about it more and talk about his experience as an Investor dealing with companies that are working on invisible interfaces and and chat-based Conversational tools and things of that nature so Matt I guess my my main question to you is this is a huge trend that's really picked up a lot of steam 2016 is the year of the conversational interface. It's the year of the chat bot But you say in your post that that bots and chat-based interfaces are too separate though related things Can you kind of dig down into that a little bit? Sure, so I think one of the These things are getting kind of conflated and so the way that I think about it is There's this new design paradigm that's emerging around people Communicating in real time, but also expecting results back and going back and forth and one subset of that is What I think all of what we refer to as bots, which are these Maybe kind of dumb terminal like interfaces where you say things like Balance that it responds with maybe you're checking account balance Are you I mean developers are familiar with this command line or face from anything from get to using heroku and and and pushing using it I? Find that the there's a there's a larger Trend that's happening along chat along channel interfaces and for me that includes anything from bots all the way to Amazon Alexa skills and those can feel like bots, but I think there's there's there's a number of different places that those exist One other example is a company like operator or magic reaction of a human that's sitting on the other side So I wouldn't put that in the bots category chord But I do think it's in chat and there's definitely a spectrum as well because we we talk about these kind of dumb Bots that just return values based on inputs that you're giving them versus something like TAY for example Who is a a bot considered a bot but definitely more involved in the machine learning? Spectrum of things and is actually taking in information and kind of evolving its mental state from there I guess so what are you seeing more of these days and are these companies investable? investigable in We put our beta ball Well, you know, it's a really good point that I think it was an interesting Example this week to see the tabot kind of come online and then quickly go I don't know if it's out of control or be it wasn't in that one full Hitler It evolved. I don't know if it was positive evolution or if it was if it went the other direction I do think that there are two separate trends happening. One is the ability of companies to leverage new artificial intelligence algorithms and a separate one is that consumers are Starting to live more and more in these chat interfaces. And so there's the ability to have conversations with them I actually am not sure that that the reason why investors and developers are so excited is Is as much a function of the artificial intelligence algorithms improving as much as it is disability for them to get access to consumers in products like Slack or like SMS and so I do think it's two separate trends and as we saw with the With the tabot. I don't know. I don't know how smart they really are yet So that's another thing about the sorry Tom. I'm this I'm I'm going for on this one. I apologize So the invisible interface is something that you you talk about a lot as well And bots are special because they can really float from one platform to another So as you mentioned, you can have a bot talking to you in Slack You can have a bot talking to you an instant messenger You can have a bot popping up in all sorts of different services that we interface with on a day-to-day basis Is that kind of like the killer feature of of chatbots is that they don't have to be platforms specific I Think it's a big piece of it I think that's a lot of the appeal to developers is that you don't have to go in and learn Android development and then go learn Xcode and then make a web version you can kind of abstract out and some people would look at This and say it's maybe it's just literally easier to develop for all these platforms There's still some differences and we're starting to see a bunch of products emerge that are that that help developers create bots for all These different platforms, so I think I think that's an appeal on the developer side I wonder about how that affects consumers I mean it's kind of neat to have the idea that you can while you're sitting in in the office interact with something over Slack and then it remembers what state you're in when you go home and Ask Alexa the same question or when you move over your SMS and ask it the same question I think one of the things that I like about the slackbot system that I've interacted with is how it sort of guides you into it because As you mentioned in your post it's attractive to developers to not have to mess with a graphical user interface It kind of fits in with the long-standing tradition of the command line is better and keyboard shortcuts are better than mouse Mouse gestures and mouse movements. So I get the developer side of it But the more you can make it work Naturally so that I don't have as a user to think about anything or learn anything The better it's going to work Right But one of the things that that you mentioned in your medium post as well is how do you get people to know? It's there if you're doing it on another platform like sms or kick or any of those Well, how do you get how do you let them know it's there? And how would you properly onboard them to give it the right domain expertise? So you may not know what a bot is capable of doing when you're first encountering it What kind of bot it is so how do you how does the bot tell you what it's good at? I think that's exactly the right question and I It's a big open question in terms of user experience So if we if you picture what amazon was sort of famous for at one point was Saying okay well this button gets clicked on more if it's green or if it's bigger or if it's Certain in a certain position and they were really good at doing that I think that's what a lot of user experience research has gone into now We have this interface that it doesn't even it doesn't even let you know that it's onboarding you You just you write it And and maybe you send it a text message and it responds I went through and looked at we look released a a kind of a fun bot for Out of beta works called bot wick because you know beta works to john borthwick And so it was just kind of his fake bot and one of the things we looked at was What are the things that people are trying to ask it? And how does it gracefully kind of respond in a way that seems fun to users? And also lets them know what other functions are available and I think it's a big open ux question That's fascinating. In fact people in our chat room right now. We have a bot in our colloquy chat room for um IRC They're now they're testing the bot to try to get it out of its comfort zone And it's it's pretty funny the results that we're getting But yeah, that's that's what I think is so interesting too Is because you know bots work best when they have a very specific domain that they're good at I think And but it's funny when you try to get it out of its comfort zone and make it talk about things that it doesn't necessarily know About and then I had this whole idea. What if you get two bots that are Okay, my brain is exploding. Okay, so if you have two bots that are good at two different things And they start actually having a conversation together This is actually brought on by an interview um with the creator of x.ai And he was saying, you know, if you start having two bots talking to each other One's trying to schedule a meeting and one's trying to pick a place to go to dinner or something like that pick the best restaurant recommendation Are they going to have this real like legit natural language conversation together? And are we putting limitations on them by making them communicate in natural language as opposed to letting them talk In bot speak to each other. So is there a b to b for bots? Yeah, bot to bot Do we need like a system like a bot specific language where they can communicate to each other? Or are we going to limit them to using natural language? Yeah, it's a it's a good question I think part of it is maybe who the audience is too because I could see a world where It could be useful to you to see how that location got picked And so watching the it's a kind of like debugging code when you go in and if you were just looking at the apis We're communicating with each other You'd have to kind of think really hard to understand what's going on But if they were just asking each other questions in kind of natural language It's probably not the most efficient way for bots to communicate But it actually is a pretty efficient way for us humans to see what's going on I could picture a world where I walk in and to my apartment and I tell Alexa turn on the lights Alexa is then telling my lights to turn on and then it's communicating back and maybe I can see some of that That'd be kind of interesting Yeah I feel like the end game here is some kind of machine learning system where You don't have to learn how the bot works or what words the bot likes You just talk to it and if it misunderstands it just asks you a clarifying question like any of us would But I love this idea of on the back end There are you know, there are bots that you you you output to right? So maybe you ask Alexa Hey, I need I need to ship two books to martin and Alexa goes to your context finds martin's address And then goes to ship and does a bot to bot communication to get your shipping done And and it all takes care of itself on the back end and all it says is like, okay The person will be here at two o'clock. You know, make sure you just hand them the books then Yeah, it's interesting. It's almost like the next evolution of apis It was a big deal before apis You had to actually call another company and do a business development relationship with them and cut a deal and say, okay Here's what we're gonna allow you to have here's what we're not and when companies started Opening up their apis any developer could use them. I could almost see the next evolution of that being Being okay. Now we're gonna have like project management of this particular process done by bot. It's kind of what you're describing Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. So should we should probably take our reddit question that we got from the abm Who says, uh, hi matt, uh, what are the biggest challenges you predict for the chat bots industry i.e. monetizing distribution, etc I think there's a lot of challenges right now and that's part of the problem I think you see on the funding side is that there's a lot of open questions so I think that user acquisition is a big one because So much of this isn't social and so you're it's you being social with a bot but not necessarily in front of anybody else and one of the big Abilities that people hide with social networks was to be able to say i'm going to do this in a little bit More public which also creates the ability for that network to acquire more users. So I use the plan I use snapchat. I want you to join me on it. So I tell you about it if we're using a A bot that's where you're just communicating with that but it's not necessarily social Which means you have to find another way to have to have user acquisition for the bot company itself And that is it related to monetization. I think the two problems of monetization are one It's a text so like where's your ad go right? So if you're if you have a blog or if you have a website You have there's sort of some known ways that you can make money And on the bot side we're seeing what I think the thing that we're seeing right now Is that the bots that seem like they can make money have services incorporate with them? So maybe the user ends up paying something And then the companies can use that lifetime value to then spend against acquiring new people and advertising But I think we're really early in that stage yet in that area right now And it's almost like the companies that are there's an argument for the the companies that will Win in this earlier ones that already have existing services uber is one example I think where you can imagine having an uber chat bot or an uber alexa app that was launched recently and it's because there's some depth of the service which is there's cars driving around that you're going to pay for and I think that the monetization will be hard also Well, there's way more that we could continue to talk about So folks go follow matt hartman on twitter twitter.com slash matt hartman's two t's and matt And the website is uh, what is it my podcast website's dyvpodcast.com Yeah, and go subscribe to do your business with matt hartman as well matt Thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us. This is great. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it Thanks matt Let's get to our pick of the day from jesse aka hometown rival who says I highly recommend Emergency by the american red cross. We were mentioning uh, facebook safety check early Uh, and this is an alternative to it Not only can you monitor hazards like severe thunderstorms or flooding and earthquakes tsunami tornadoes, etc Uh, but jesse says you can also monitor them in multiple locations and assign family members and friends to said locations That you can easily contact through the app once notified of a hazard recently I was notified on my apple watch of a tornado warning in my hometown From the watch, I was able to quickly send a text to my mom And so she was able to tell me she was safe, which she was The app also provides important safety tips on what you should do before during and after a hazard along with tips On how to plan for a hazard, which is something that it's hard to make ourselves do because we're humans You know we only react to the threat The app is free on ios and android and is part of a great suite of american red cross apps. Thank you jesse for that great pick Indeed that's that's super useful. Send your picks to us folks feedback at daily tech news show dot com You can find more picks at daily tech news show dot com slash picks Uh one message from rich in lovely cleveland, uh said as someone who is a photography and free things enthusiast I'm definitely one of those. Uh, I really wanted to try the newly free nick collection But if you didn't hear the nick collection by google is a bunch of plugins that you use in other applications And rich said I couldn't justify shelling out for photoshop So I googled around and I found a way to get the nick collection to work with gimp. It was a free photo editor, right? Uh requires you to install the shell out plugin in gimp and then add four lines to your config file So it may not be for everyone But for someone who just wants to try out the nick collection It's worth a little futzing and he's got a link to the windows guide on tumblr about how to get this added Uh, I thought that was a great little tip from rich. Thank you so much, man. Yeah, I hate gimp But that's a great tip if I get to use that sweet Right, I mean, I wonder if you would hate it as much if you were using the nick collection with it I don't know if that was possible. It's been many years since I've used it So maybe it's been updated in much more pleasing ways, but I did not use gimp in the day Yeah, it had a weird interface for a long time because it was trying to emulate the the old mac os 9 way of doing things But I I know it has gotten better over the years I use acorn oddly enough because I got it in a humble bundle a long time ago I like pixelmator. I also think I got that in a bundle. It's one of my favorites But check out gimp if you're looking for a free powerful thing to think about acorn and and pixelmator Pixelmator not powerful. They don't they don't do what photoshop does. I don't need them to but if you do gimp something to check out Thanks again to matt hartman for joining us. Once again, you can follow him on twitter of matt hartman and Look for the doing your business podcast and veronica belmont. Thanks to you as well Of course. Happy to be here as always. Thanks for having me. Thanks for digging up matt hartman and bringing him in That was that was cool. Well, I could talk about bots forever. I had so many more questions to ask to I might have to just do maybe I should just do a bot podcast. Who knows? Yeah You can do a special bot episode throw it in the audio feed. That'd be awesome. Oh, that'd be fun. Yeah Yeah, go for it. Do whatever you want. Uh, I'm all for that Let's uh, let's open up the dtns platform and just start showering people with things There we go the gimp of podcasting. Exactly If that sounds good to you folks, uh, then all we ask is that you tell us how much that's worth By supporting us on patreon patreon.com slash dtns daily tech news show.com Support if you want to know all the different ways to support the show One of the best ways you can support the show if you're like i'm a little short on cash right now Is or or if you're like look i'm giving all I can tell people about us Find a friend who you know is a detect that isn't listening to the show tell them about dtns or Go to your favorite podcast collector like itunes and leave us a five star review Unless you don't think we're worth five stars, but I don't know I think we are anyway Just leave a review there because reviews also get the word out and the more people we tell the more things we can do So thank you so much for your support of daily tech news show our email address is feedback at daily tech news show dot com And give us a call at 51259 daily That's 5125932459 catch the show live monday through friday at 4 30 p.m Eastern time at alpha geek radio dot com and diamond club dot tv and visit our website daily tech news show dot com back With the french fin patrick vasia tomorrow talk to you then This show is part of the frog pants network get more at frogpants dot com Diamond club hopes you have enjoyed this program That was a good show Thanks. Yeah, I got a little over excited. I apologize. No. No, I was glad I was just waiting, you know, I'm always waiting to like jump in if there's nothing else coming But you kept coming which was awesome good Good stuff Let's refer to the showbots to the showbots Yeah, we have no, uh, jenny's at work rogersick Thank you and me kid. Just you and me. Just you and me like old times ronica Wife for thin. I don't know what that's from Wafer thin Is it just a typo or we're missing a joke typo that people think is funny. Yeah, you're choosing it All dogs go to instagram hilarious Always bet on the bot I like that one Oh, I clicked the wrong one because you you clicked yours and it popped my If you're watching live go to show about that tv and do some clicking of your own. Yeah Or listening live I'm gonna submit one. Is it too late to submit one? No, you know how to do it, right? Yeah bang s title Yes, we get the wafer thin reference But the wafer thin. I don't know. Is it just supposed to be Spelling it in accent don't know Mine was uber but for debugging Uber but for debugging uber. Yeah Which is similar to Dr. Payne's and uber for debugging but the joke in the tech industry as you say Yeah, uber for yeah blank Okay, it is a pronunciation. Thank you big jim. So the wafer thin is just writing it in the accent It's a wafer thin Oh, I get it. I I like all dogs go to instagram even though we barely talked about that. I know It's winning too Super. Oh, it's always bet on the bot It's dogs all the way down. Dr. Payne's on a roll today Good work, dr. Payne Bringing the pleasure Yeah It's a little weird Think about it too much. That's a lot. Yeah Hey, oh, I forgot to mention day six day six in the in the feed yesterday. I'm sure you all discovered it, but In the audio feed Lot about visiting china and the chinese tech scene All right Always bet on the bot all dogs go to instagram or uber but for debugging uber Or maybe just I feel like it should be bought because something about bots because that was our main topic Well, always bet on the bot is tied for number one. So let's do that then. All right always bet on People seem to like it. Yeah Always bet on bot Not the bot I kept saying the bot just always bet on bot Always bet on bot started at the bot now we hear Oh, we missed a question We did oh, it just happened In your opinion, what is the best example of what a bot can do? He kind of mentioned that a little bit. Maybe we can get him to go in and answer it though. Maybe Maybe Maybe Always bet on the bot Always bet on the bot side of life Side of life Boogie in the bot Baby's got bot Someone sent me a bot or not t-shirt by the way, I've been meaning to thank them What if it was somebody sent me a t-shirt that said bot or not on it? Oh, oh, that's cool I got Ryan got me this shirt that says all I want Is to pet all the dogs I saw was that on snapchat? Yeah, I snap chatted it Well, first I snapped chatted the poster that's in the mission that says this And then I showed it to him and then he got me the shirt. He got me the shirt. Good job, Ryan Good job I have uh, I've had some epic fails in the gift department In my marriage Mind you, I'm not you know, but yeah, there have been times where I'm like, oh, she really likes that The best one was I got her a t-shirt I don't know if she showed you this when we were on holiday in december Uh, I got her a t-shirt because She was sitting down at the table pointing at it in amazon and saying I really like that It's really funny and I got the feeling like this was a like hint hint. Yeah She added it to her amazon wish list That I got her the t-shirt she opens it up for christmas. She's like, oh I'm like, what do you mean? Oh, she's like, oh, well, I wasn't really serious. I'm like, you added It's like I did it's like I must have been drunk But then she wore it she was a she was a sport. She wore it. Okay. That's nice. Yeah, you tried you tried you you could not be faulted for that I was like, okay. This is not like me Horribly misinterpreting something like I was making I took I had safeguards in place. Yeah, that was like that was a good try That was a good solid effort Exactly. Thank you big jim's like if it's on the wish list, it's a fair game. I'm like If you why did you add it to the wish list that because it could have been somebody else like your her dad or somebody good about it I need to add some more things to my wish list. It's the only way I get presents from my relatives Yeah, I don't remember to do that Just exporting just hanging out I'm just reading about toast Reading about toast Mm-hmm What kind of toast then buzzfeed did an article about san francisco's expensive toast. Oh, which Whatever I have gotten to the point finally I've been living outside of san francisco long enough that those kind of articles don't bug me anymore They still bug me You should just come down here It's so much more grounded in really three toast rating for the mill. That's bullshit. Oh, sorry. Damn it. Sorry Great now. We have to put an adult tag. Oh, I'm sorry. Apologize right now. I'm sorry I'm sorry the person who's emailing him. I forgot we were live. I'm sorry That's just how comfortable you are with the audience. I love you guys Oh When you're a project manager, you'll still have to watch your mouth I know Our product manager. Yeah, project manager is a different thing. Tom. Yeah, sorry. It's okay. Watch my mouth Yeah, same with program manager. I'm also not a program manager Are you a Donut manager? I would like to be a donut manager Manage all the donuts into my mouth Manage to eat all the donuts that's what I would do Veronica Belmont Veronica Belmont Getting there. I always forget that you can't put hrefs into the id3 tags Can you What can I always take the href links, you know the code that html out of I always put it in before I pasted into the id3 tag and then I had to take it back out Maybe I don't have to maybe I can just leave it in there and it would be linkable That might be a cool thing that I'm accidentally preventing Turing the donuts I'm just annoyed by this toast article It's like what is annoying you by the toast article is it because the thing that's annoying me is that it's the stupid expensive toast thing And I know we know the person who wrote the original article Jolie odell wrote the original expensive toast in san francisco article, which I found obnoxious at the time Sorry jolie. It was an obnoxious article because artisanal Food made with good local ingredients cost more money Okay And they're using that money to pay for people who live in an already crazy expensive city These are people who work in cafes and coffee shops And they're the people who are making you the toast and they are deserving of making a living wage So if people are willing to pay four dollars for a piece of toast with really quality good ingredients Just think that money is going to pay the people who are making you the toast. It's not just going to it's free market Yeah, if people aren't Like you don't have to you can go to the to the supermarket and buy a $3 loaf of bread and go home and make your own toast But if you want to go to a coffee shop and get a really nice thick piece of bread with really awesome ingredients That someone is making for you Because it is a business Then who cares? What does it matter? Don't buy it if you don't want to well, that's the thing if it's not worth four dollars Which is usually the argument like it's just regular toast, but they overprice it Then don't buy it Don't buy it and they'll go out of business then becomes yeah, but everywhere is Charging toast for that much that's different, but I don't think that's the case right? It's not like every piece of toast in the city is now four dollars You can't go and complain that people, you know You can't complain about expensive toast and also complain that people can't earn a living wage in san francisco Because things that are good cost money and people need to earn money to live in the place where they're working Right. So the the problem is not the toast. The problem is the conditions that cause the need for four dollar toast exactly So there you go. There is my Veronica toast ran I think A lot of people don't live in san francisco We'll just look at the whole thing and go the fact that you are arguing about toast Is indicative of something you can't win you can't win You know, I'm I'm really trying hard to not be a self-loathing san franciscan But it's hard because there's so much Crappy stuff going on with the city right now and so much hate directed at it But there's still a lot of good stuff about this city And there's a lot of good people that live here and people who are trying to make a difference and trying to do cool stuff So it's not all encompassing. Yeah, we have major problems that a lot of other big cities don't necessarily have to the same degree, but People are trying to work on them. We have a pretty like we were set up badly with the government that we were given and the situations That we were given from previous regimes So whatever and and that's true of every city every city has something Every city has something san francisco has got more some things than others right now for sure I don't even know if it does or if it's just got a spotlight on them, honestly Well the income disparity is a major issue No doubt um The housing crisis is really like the the fact that we can't build more in san francisco is really the Bedrock of a lot of the problems here and new york city has faced those same problems over and over again in its history for longer So it's not like it's never happened before. Is that like san francisco invented housing crisis? No We're we're innovating on it though. Yeah, you're disrupting the housing crisis industry Making it bad in all new ways. Yeah All right, uh, well, I'm out of the post. Thanks everybody for watching and we will talk to you tomorrow from finland partly