 Y ddechrau ddaeth a ddechrau i'r ddigesiad grifennu a ddaeth o'r ddigesiad yn yng Nghymru yn Llyfrgell yn dweud ac yn ddechrau unig ar y cysylltio Parcein y Dyn wszystkimu a derbyn yn Ymwyllgor Cymru o'r ddigesiad o'r ddigesiad a'r Oes Llyfrgell Visitul. Chwysgell wedi ei bod yn cael ei defnyddio i'r ddigesiad o'r Oes Llyfrgell ac oes Llyfrgell o'r ddigesiad i'r Oes Llyfrgell, wedi'u ddau'r Llyfrgell a'r Oes Llyfrgell, Chris Ngigeig. i'r amlwg sy'n amlwg a'n amlwg, ac mae'r frynwyr yn ei wneud ei wneud i gael ar gyfer gyfyrddol i'r llythbeth i'r llyffyr a'r ystodio'r cydweithiau, ac yn ei ddysgwyddiant i ddim yn ddysgustu'r yw Fred Nziakol, yng Nghymru Llywodraeth Llywodraeth, ac Immanuel Abiyy, yng Nghymru'r CEO Ddun Swn. Fel ydych chi'n ddwy'n gwybod, mae'n ddysgu'n ddwy'n ddwy'n ddwy'n gwybod. Yn ymwneud yw, Mr Nziakol, y Gweithgaredd Unigol yn ystod o'r unigol i'r parlywyr yn y cyd-dweud yw'r unigol yn ystod o'r unigol, ac mae'r parlywyr yn ystod o'r unigol yn ystod o'r unigol yn ystod o'r unigol yn ystod o'r unigol. Yn ymwneud yw'r unigol, mae'n mynd i'n mynd i'r unigol yn ystod o'r unigol i'n mynd i ystod o'r unigol yn ystod o'r unigol yn Ystod o'r unigol yn ystod o'r unigol, i wedi ystod o'r unigol yn ystod o'r unigol yn ystod o'r unigol yn ystod o'r unigol, fy ysbytiau ddim yn ddenodol yma. Mae'n ddweud rydw i'n reichio i'r reichio i'ch unigol. The background to this strike is to the fact that the background to this strike is to the fact that the judiciary of government at all levels and state levels and at federal level be given financial autonomy. And the parliamentary association of Nigeria also had been at the vanguard of the struggle for financial autonomy to the legislative arm of government at both state and federal levels. And the flip side to this is that these are copiously provided for in the constitution under the doctrine of suppression of powers. The constitution has provided that the judiciary and the legislature should be autonomous financially so that they will be able to work. And Mr President, as a result of the fact that at the state level, especially the judiciary has not been given autonomy. And Mr President went ahead to add something to the provision of the constitution by way of executive order. Signed an executive order recently asking and directing that the states should allow financial autonomy to the judiciary. Now, Jusyn has been on this matter for a long time. This is not the first time. This is not the second time. And unfortunately at other times, Jusyn had reached agreements with governments. But governments in their usual manner, reneged on those agreements until this time that Jusyn decided to take it to a very logical conclusion. And observers and public analysts and progressive-minded individuals like myself had strongly supported Jusyn in this strike. The National Association has also supported Jusyn because as much as we know that strikes will be the last result. But because government is hard of hearing, government is very fond of reneging on agreements. So Jusyn was left with no other option than to take this strike to a logical conclusion. And we are in support of that. Not minding the collateral damage it is doing on justice delivery. But what is doing is what is doing well. The states are not doing well and the governors at the governor's forum are not telling themselves the truth about what they should do with respect to financial autonomy to the judiciary. So now that it has come to this point, what the important thing that we should be asking is would government renege on this agreement again? You literally asked the question for me because I was about to ask you. You have said it so many times in your statement this evening that governments is fond of reneging. Now we've seen cases with ASU, with other bodies where the government will sign MOUs, they will come to the table and have agreements. And six months down the line, one year down the line, people are back on the streets protesting and striking again because government has reneged. And what beats me, Barisda, is I'm trying to understand why it's not necessarily one government but successive governments keep doing this and they're getting away with it. Is there nothing that these unions and judiciary workers can do other than strike constitutionally to hold governments to account? The terrible thing about the thing is that it has become a systemic thing that the Nigerian government is wrong in a voodoo manner. Where the government is not sincere, not honest, not truthful with the people, where governments is not the way it should be. And that is why it goes across various governments. And when we say government, we are not talking about the current government because we had the similar experience in other governments in the past. And ASU had the same experience. And ASU had the same experience. NMA had the same experience. Nigerian government has the same experience. Literally all organized private sector that signed any agreement with the government at all levels have had bigger experiences of government not keeping up to their agreement. And that is the worrisome aspect of it. And that is why from time to time we are relapsed to strike, we are relapsed to wastages of man hours, we are relapsed to issues that are not progressive and that are not to the development of the country. Because the government has failed to do not only what they should do but what they had promised and put hand on paper that they should do. And that is worrisome aspect. And that is why when we say that we need to restructure not only the polity but the minds of Nigerians towards honesty, towards integrity and towards observing the decorum and the tenets of agreements. Now a new agreement is reached. The challenge here is this. The minister for labor that is in terms of labor matters in Nigeria have reached this agreement. But implementation of whatever that is reached lies with the state governors. Because at the federal level, the federal judiciary has gained its autonomy, financial autonomy. But the 36 states, after the 36 states, there is hardly up to 23 states that are giving financial autonomy to the judiciary and the rest of the 36 states. So whatever that is agreed this time as a result of this strike will be implemented by the various state governors. Are the governors part of this agreement? Are the governors have they addressed themselves of the need to respect this agreement? These are the major issues because it will be very unfair to Nigerian system, very unfair to Nigerian populace. That after all this length of strike will see come back to ground zero. I think it will be very unfortunate. We have the deputy president of Junstone joining us via Zoom. Mr Immanuel, you heard what Baistar Ndziakol has said about the government's reneging on all of the previous promises that they have made in time past. But how do you intend across the 36 states to hold these governors accountable? I hear from this report that the governments, the governors and the leadership of your union and the parliamentary staff association is signing this MOU. But how committed are they? You were obviously in that room. What is the body language of the government? Is there a certainty that they have realized that they must work with you and one way or the other make sure that they keep to their promises? Or do you still have any form of skepticism? Are you worried or concerned that the governments might renege again because this is their nature? We have been on this matter for a very long time. But to go straight to the point, the question has whether the body language of the government is pleasing to us. It will be too early for us to judge that the government will not honor the agreement that will just reach yesterday. So the agreement that reaches today affects the strike that is on when it is suspended as long as the government credit the accounts of the state of sharing. The allocation has been for this sharing. So we have known this for a very long time and we are just hopeful that the need for this time around not to mind the fact that the histories of each of our agreements in the past would not cope because in good faith we have done what we did yesterday. And of course we cannot begin to think that the government will not implement as promised. So the both parties have signed this agreement together yesterday. So we are hopeful for, we can't say for now whether the governments are ready to honor but we believe that in good faith they will honor this particular agreement. Now I just have one more question because we have just a minute to go to wrap this up. We know that in certain states the governors are very generous and very good to judges. But then in these governments you also have lawyers who are working as attorney generals with the governor. People who you as Junson would think would be fighting on your behalf. But the governors, like in River State, the governor is very generous to judges. He's given them cars, he's bettering them a lot. How come these people don't seem to be fighting for the rights of judiciary workers? Because if we're asking for an independent judiciary then there has to be some form of financial autonomy. Or could it be that maybe those judges and the attorney general are not necessarily worried because they do not feel the need that there should be an autonomy of sorts for the judiciary financially? Well thank you very much. We are talking about generosity. We believe it has no basis in running the system consistently. For instance there is a law in place. You can only be generous to somebody by a way of paying such a person back. We believe that except we will allow the system to run on the rule of law. The place of generosity will not stand the test of time. Perhaps as a chief judge you have the governor of the state as your friend or former classmate. Definitely there will be a broader relationship and there will be an extension of generosity to the extent of taking care of, you know, such a chief judge if there is an institution like that. But what about the case whereby, I mean, both the chief judge and the governor of the state, they are not really in good terms. One happens which they pay back time perhaps in a negative way. But if there is a system in place and the system is allowed to run naturally on the rule of law, there wouldn't be any place of somebody being generous. It doesn't mean that you don't like the place of somebody. So because of that you can stop that person who is dead of a normal government of fun and expecting to be on the scene or an audience before you can give what they do to him. So yet the constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria is very clear as to the way the government should run. And we are saying that we are in the era of democracy. Democracy should be allowed to run on the rule of law. So the system has to be established on the rule of law. And in this instance we are talking about the grand norm, the constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. So generosity of whoever is in government now at the head of the executive arm of government towards any head of thought which is the chief judge has no basis to do respect. So what we want is that the system run on the rule of law. Let there be separation of power as it is trying the constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. Let there be financial autonomy for the arms of government that meant to be according to the establishment of law in the constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. Okay, well I want to thank you. Emmanuel Abiyoye is the deputy president of June soon. And Fred Nziako is a legal practitioner. Thank you gentlemen for being part of this conversation. Our time is done. Many times. All right. Well thank you all for staying with us on the show today. Well I want to thank you all. I hope that we will be back next week with more interesting conversations on plus politics. I am Mary Annacol.