 My name is Chris Schwann. I'm the new executive director of Niagara Region Native Center. I've only been appointed here for about 10 months now. So yeah, as executive director there's a number of programs that we provide to the indigenous, the urban indigenous community of this Kashmir area, Niagara on the Lake, St. Catharines, Niagara Falls, Pelham, Fawn Hill, Beamsville. So we cover quite a bit of the Niagara Region with specific socioeconomic or social service type of programs for the indigenous community of the Niagara Region. Everything from cradle, well actually for everything from womb to grave really ultimately and any of those socioeconomic impacts that indigenous people face is what should be dealt with as programming through Friendship Centers in my opinion. You know everything from you know your mother's first words is education. So you're talking about even programming for mothers. It's really everything to do with education because how does that mother even sing to that child while the child is in the womb? That's education. So when that child comes to this physical world and some of those teachings in life and lessons of life and how do we come to learn about creation and the Creator and our own connectedness to Mother Earth comes initially from those initial teachings. So in regards to the actual center, there's a lot that could be spoken about what the actual Friendship Center movement is and where it's been and where it's going to and how does it include education. Currently the Niagara Regional Native Center is involved with, has an agreement with the Niagara District Catholic School Board. Now we have an agreement where the Niagara District Catholic School Board administers or runs the an indigenous school called Soran Eagles and that's from K to 8 programming and it's meant to be in a land-based programming initiative. It was more than anything a call to action under the Truth and Reconciliation Commission by the Catholic School Board to try to meet their potential obligations and their calls to action. So currently right now we have this agreement with the Catholic School Board. I would think that it could be a little stronger personally. It was a program that I as a newer ED, I you know as I moved into this position it was something that had already been established. What I found through assessment and analysis and communication is that it's not necessarily an indigenous school. It's meant to have indigenous land-based programming. It is meant to provide a culturally safe environment. It's meant to provide cultural education especially. When in fact the whole world, the realm of education for Anishinaabe and Eurocentric methodologies however I'd have to say is something that indigenous people aren't necessarily experts on. We have our own form of education that we are experts on and now that we're dealing with this Eurocentric institutional methodology you know we it's everything. Even my experiences in the 70s as a child they knew you know I went I went to a Connexus conference a couple weeks ago and one of the speakers was talking about how they actually had a big stamp and that stamp used to identify people as being retarded. And I had that stamp put upon me in the 70s in the late in the mid to late 70s and I was actually put into a special ed school. Why? Because I like to look out the window too much you know and then so looking out the window too much being a little distracted daydreaming, flighty is what they determined to me to be highly distracted you know when in fact you know yeah I just I wanted to be outside ultimately but you know when you're when you're given that type of a title and that's what I find it says that we're redefining all these new titles what is to be successful you know because I guess when I'm looking at here right now sorry and I might bounce around a little bit but my experience as being on reserve in this in a city urban indigenous person is that you know on the First Nation you know back in the day we children were bused into town from the reserve and then they had to go home so they had to take the Indian bus into town take the Indian bus home and now we have our own schools on the First Nation so the conversations within my Anishinaabe network and some of my friends within the Haudenosaunee nation is this that we have these schools now where once upon a time we had forced integration now we have self-segregating education so I've been trying to determine what are those what is a happy medium there because we had this forced integration where even our own children were you know forced to go into town go to school and then you know because they even had to ride on a different bus they wouldn't you know the non-indigenous children wouldn't become riding on that bus with indigenous children so there was always a separate bus just to the reserve so even that level of understanding and diversity doesn't occur that sharing of culture that sharing and sharing and sharing there is no sharing it's um it seems like some of our our educational institutes aren't aren't very embracing of indigenous people ultimately it is ultimately about in my opinion helping this child learn to walk in two worlds and that's really where I come to that understanding of my understanding of indigenous children and education and Soaring Eagles I guess you know I'm kind of circling around here but um that's kind of my understanding of where we are as education and indigenous people in this Eurocentric education right now Soaring Eagles doesn't necessarily provide land-based programming and what is land-based programming and how do we define that ultimately within my own cultural attachment business theory methodology that I've only created that's based on the seven teachings and what has happened to our seven teachings to where we are today to where we need to go for tomorrow you know and those seven things it's like a nice correlation it's very simple and even within my own research and we found that education is one of those components of one of those segments that has been changed upon our people and I guess what I'm getting at is is that much like I was saying this forced integration but this Eurocentric methodology of education was also based on the industrial revolution so where are we today we're supposed to be trying to now educate children to jobs that don't even exist yet in society that's really where we are like in today's technological world we don't know 20 years from now what jobs are going to be available nobody can determine that so how can you build uh how can any educational institution right now build these children of success so it is a bit of a tricky thing and then on top of that our children are then also trying to learn and function and walk in two different worlds we're all trying to maintain their their identity as indigenous people and um and and all the rights that they that they have to their language into their cultures but again that that land-based programming what I understand about our educational system is you know it's still Eurocentric right now for the industrial revolution whereas our educational system and understanding of uh educational success and everything else is where how does that help the indigenous individual maintain their indigeneity how does it encourage it um you know I I I see leaps and bounds by the local by the local district school boards of making that that call to action the nagger district or the district school board of Niagara has made extreme leaps and bounds in meeting that call to action you can see it with all the different activities and actions that they've done they have their facebook page the things that they're doing even most recently they had a drum making uh workshop for the indigenous students of of uh dspn like those type of elements are that's what we need to see um ultimately the bottom line is that the elders have said to me if the language was taken away from our children then it needs to be restored within them so ultimately that is also the next thing that I believe in when it comes to our language is an education well then our children should never much like I was I was forced to take uh a language program that was not mine I wanted my own language and I was refused and denied continuously throughout my life any lessons of my own language so constitutionally I don't know what that means so I'm looking forward to that change within my time I have grandchildren now so it will be nice to see some of that legislative change for my grandchildren um lastly I'd also have to say that you know there is a fine line of understanding this educational realm because I have a different perspective um when I was a younger man I would have quite often say this this way is white man's education and you know I was rather naive and ignorant about it you know I made those comments whereas today when I when I work with young indigenous people and I'll specifically say I volunteer with young indigenous uh young indigenous men that I often say to them now if you don't think that that's your education then tell me of your indigenous education tell me of your nishinaabe education tell me how well you can clean a fish show me how well you can clean that fish uh and get all the meat off of it you know like I I watch my cousins and cousins process and you know I'll help them process thousands of pounds of fish and I'm not even the cutter I'm just what we call the the I take the bones out of the filets and I take the skin off the filets so I'm just the boner in the skinner whereas I'm not even the cutter and um because that's a very special skill set and so I think of I think of that you know show me how you take the cheeks off that fish you know what are you going to do with the bones how much of that are you wasting um show me how you make a stick bow you know like let me show show me how to make up what are you going to use for seeing you for that bow string what tree do you use to make the bow out of what are you going to use for for arrows arrow shafts how are you going to put feathers on that arrow you know how many you're going to put feathers on that arrow how are you going to nap and go find that flint and then nap that arrow head as it is you know and then once you make your bow and your arrow you got to know how to hunt and you got to be able to bow hunt that deer that deer who is most elusive to humans for hunting it's it's all as much as humans have evolved to hunt deer deer have evolved to be elusive from humans their ears work independently they work like satellite dishes their eyes are also very independently they can pretty much look behind their head while looking forward at the same time they have more sensory glands in their bodies than what humans could ever have them to have but then on top of that their speed of course their agility um so the point is is a bow hunter also has to be within anywhere from 30 to 35 yards to be 100 accurate so education wise you know what's how do you smell that deer how do you track that deer how do you how do you age that deer just based on whether or not the size of its foot of its hoof print can you tell if it's male or female obviously you can tell which direction it's going you know gauging its its its poop picking up its poop and determining how old is this poop how long has it been since this deer has been passed here in the shnaabe education again so this fish processing this this deer processing because again this bow making right this arrow making all the way to the hunt and then processing that deer so what is that education that education is very important you know and how important isn't that indigenous education is is everything because then even as tecumseh has said you know you know we are very weak as one individual arrow but as a bundle of arrows we are we are strong and we are mighty so again you know it has many different ties and and i find that more and more of our indigenous ways are not being taught within schools and we have to take extra time and and and learnings into our adulthood when we shouldn't have to to learn the lessons of what children are to be taught and sometimes we have to go to our elders or to our spiritual people like the minna wewanak who help us with those spiritual journeys as well those are those ones who we go to for those teachings and then we have our hunters and our fishers and we have those community members those politicians and our people have been doing this for thousands of years it's shouldn't be anything new but it is new today it's life it's life everything yeah that would be my definition i wish i could say that an anishinabek mine still but what is indigenous education indigenous education is uh it's life it's everything about life life is your education every day you're learning you should be learning something out of every conversation you should learn something you're not there to to talk to you god gave us two years one mouth so if the if jimna do give us you know we're supposed to listen twice as much as we're supposed to talk i mean that's a common statement from around the world but you know it was something that i i know i believe that our elders have spoke about too you know it's it's really tough for canada and their educators and the regions and everything to develop how should we what language should we provide in this school i know growing up in the niger region it was very tough for them to decide because they don't know you know there is a large population of hodnoshoni in in the niger region there's a large population of anishinaabe as well as i've come to learn mikman especially a large population of matine nation in uh in the niger region so i guess is more specific you know it's one thing if you can you know an educational model on reserve is is different than it would be in a urban setting so it would be totally different because the anishinaabe nation has moved ahead with it's with its initiative and and having our own genoa gaolans to have our own educational educational system the anishinaabe education system right so in some senses i like that because as anishinaabe we were people who wrote ojibili and um so that only tells us that we've been good at being writing and we've had that consistency our seventh fire is always based on our prophecies and how we could write and we wrote down our our ceremonies we wrote we wrote we wrote to ensure continuity other nations didn't weren't arriving people um but having said that you know be you know so when i think of when i think of that i i think of where we are as people seven generations back in seven generations yet to come anyways um so when i when i think of those potential so how education can be you know we 100 education could be a lot different than what it is on reserve right now because a lot of it is you're still doing those mandatory provincial programings provincial testings um that don't apply to introduced children you get into this you know but at the same time something needs to be something that helps so those who are coming off reserve and and transition into the city what is going to be there what is that life going to be like for them right i i you know i think of the different stories of those who part of the early urban migration in the sixties the urban migration that loosely started in the early fifties but was hard in the late sixties especially in ontario you know like if that you know if people were to migrate again to the sixties and they didn't have that you know i i i know of many friends who don't have um perhaps the interview skills the communication skills to land a job that i would apply to but if they apply to a job that they're fit for such as working on cars or building a home i know that they would show up to work ready for that indigenous education really needs to in my opinion it needs to get a little firmer it needs to understand that there is a growing element of entitlement and enablement within our society there are many distracting devices of the world you know it's bad enough that are in some of our families behind closed doors that mom and dad are highly distracted let alone the little ones that that they have been given by a creator so in in some senses you know i always say you know i found myself in a meeting not too long ago in an education meeting but in regarding one of our students at soaring eagles and i was visiting with mom mom the mom was in the meeting and i'm remembering back to a far side comic in the newspaper where it shows a picture of um of um two parents with their child sitting in front of them it's a comic and and the principal sitting at the desk and they're they're showing a a note with an f on it like for fail and then you can see that the parents no sorry the comic is different the parents are standing with the the principal looking at the child shaking the finger for giving the for getting a fail and then beside that same comic they show the difference of today and the difference of today would be that it's the parents standing behind the child holding the f giving the parent the principal the naughty finger it's not the school's fault i guess is what i'm saying and at the same time when i also talk about these socio-economic issues as well as our determinants of health um the keys to whatever level of success you know like how do we define that and you know indigenous education you know if we're going to be ones and partners you know regardless you know we're here canada's here canada's is established within our territory and we we it's only beneficial to us that we learn to maintain those skill sets of our families cleaning fish and hunting and ceremony like within the dynamics of my family i'm very fortunate that even my ceremonial leaders those mid-away when i'm better in my family they're still professionals you know they're still educated educated professionals now that didn't come without a lot of scrapes bumps and bruises and in some essence that's what comes with making it through this system that it wasn't easy being that two-world walker you have to you're going to come out of it with thicker skin you're going to come out of it bumped and bruised because you're going to have to be faced with racism and discrimination if you're going to be part of a mainstream educational system that's what that comes with a child needs to be gifted some of the lessons of life of perseverance and dedication and commitment and resilience you know to have that strength you know they have to have somebody walk beside them because there's a niche naabe you know that was a naabida that looking in all directions we we're very mindful i think in some aspects that we've kind of forgotten some of those elements you know it's a it is it's a society of convenience today you know it's it's whether or not it's convenient for me to go somewhere has it convenient me to do this is it convenient for me to do that to be here to be a part of this to be a part of that if it's not convenient then it's not convenient we've been still due to our intergenerational issues through canada's assimilation policies and practices we've also become the leaders of developing new excuses as well as those distorted cognitions and when i mentioned that before what i'm referring to is that um some of our people have redefined dysfunctional behavior and what is okay is that's okay you know we can bingeing that's okay no it's not you know um as your children get early that or as your when your children are younger that it's that you don't do certain activities around them whether it be partaking in alcoholic beverages or not as they get older you start to drink in front of them when did that become okay so i'm just and i'm not that's not a judgmental situation because i'm just making a statement about that as an example like you know i see in some families where you know the mom and dad won't touch anything they won't even have a little sip of beer and a glass until you know the children are in bed so nobody sees anything about mom and dad are doing as the children get older so maybe they're six years old now and they're a little more self-sufficient right these children that they can you don't have to help them with everything that mom and dad start to say okay i can relax a little earlier in my evening and in my experiences do i see where mom and dad would even break out as children get a little older and so when the child gets 12 years and older then how does that dynamic change again and then it changes again as they get as the child gets older through my own experiences which i won't really dive into but i've i've seen and maybe in a different context or a different atmosphere or environment might i share some very unique stories of my family on the reserves what it was like because like i said my families are too my mom and dad are two ends of the spectrum right so i know exactly every dynamic of our people's communities good bad and indifferent whether it be christian or not christian christian or ceremonial christian or like um very well um spiritual and don't do bad things to my father being the main boot beggar in his community you know what is so the differences of life what i've seen for our people highly dynamic and then what has that been for me growing up in poverty growing up in low-income areas and high violence and things like that and seeing other indigenous families in that same environment and why is that you know so the relationship between education and poverty is very high and i don't know how do we you know if that's the case you know there's also that level of financial literacy you know we that that indigenous people you know these this this concept of frog skins and and um how they apply today and how do we use them and how where do we use them how do we spend them and there's eligibility criteria and again this is us without that self-determination because we have to abide by canada's rules i am a shkabai with anishinaabe shkabai with anishinaabe you'll get you talk about my disillusioned shkabai with meaning that i am uh i try to well when i try to utilize my language when i'm where i can um it might not be right but i try um but you know i try to to live by that life um and being a helper that shkabai was you know i'm a helper i knowledge keepers is a new term and it doesn't apply to the anishinaabe nation because it's either your shkabai was i don't know knowledge keepers and you know and then i've seen how knowledge keeper has been well it's been elder backslash knowledge keeper i don't know how that works because our elders there isn't really i don't i don't even know if there's a word for elders i can't remember if there is other than like old people but like um but even those who are appointed as elders by community don't call themselves elders so i don't understand again like you know whereas i've had other other older people from other nations come up to me and say look at my name tag and even says elder underneath it i was like wow never seen that before and i'm like especially because the family i come from perhaps the communities i come from the nation i come from i'm not and i don't know what this gentleman's nation was i know he was from west somewhere in the states as well as from the states the other way too the point is is that i'm coming to learn what this knowledge keeper title is but when i i look at this because this is also some of these questions are talking about the revitalization of this the revitalization of that and why are we developing new terms why are we creating new terms to something that already exists that sounds very Eurocentric very Canadian to me um to those who created those terms should look to their own language to utilize their own language first um every time we i now that i'm here i when i hear of the leaders that i try to empower and stoke their internal fire motivation and self inspiration so these new programs i'm always saying that when we develop these new programs that it should be in our language and because we're in a multi and a diverse region then we give it the languages that are predominant to the region and that only encourages people to utilize their language the cultural connection and attachment theory boom right there there always has to be a cultural attachment theory to everything and even working with some of our leaders today when i mentioned those terms they don't understand what a cultural attachment theory is when i mentioned that i've developed my own cultural attachment theory and methodology based on our seven teachings there is the people can't understand that so it is you know so getting back to where i was going is about you know um the seventh fire teach has taught me and my family and my elders have taught me that you know there is going to come a time when our people are going to lose their ways and then you know very short form there's going to come a time where there's going to be these new people and we have to be mindful of them because they won't have all their teachings and it's been up you know one of the things that i've been taught is that i may have to go to more than one elder to gather a full teaching because if our elders have gotten partial teachings then i have to go as that seventh fire generation i have to go to many different elders to ensure that i get one solid teaching i can't just ask one elder what i appreciate about anishinaabe elders too is that they really make you think to use your brain right um they don't give you the answers to a question they give you things to contemplate for you to make your own decision based on your life experiences and or education you know it's never something like uh hey how do i do this well how do you think you need to do it you know it's or what do you think would be the best way you know it's always about more thought more thought highly more analytical thought and i find that that's only become a strength for for many a many a people um you know a knowledge holder a knowledge keeper having said that they do hold a position with other nations and it's a respectful position but again i i still say you the those nations that are developed this term now i've been told you know i don't mean to be talking around it but i've been told that the Haudenosaunee used this term um and Anishinaabe are starting to utilize it as well i've only come to learn this past week um that i've seen somebody actually write it that was Anishinaabe a blended family but the the person carries Anishinaabe name so but at the same time i've come to understand exactly the importance of this position but to put them as a backslash elder you know that's that's a little concerning to me that's a little concerning to me because again that's that's this english and you're trying to equilibrate it to indigenous people i i don't that transliteration is is inaccurate anytime you transliterate anything it's going to lose accuracy it's going to lose sustenance right um so that's what i'd have to say about you know i raised my children my grandchildren with our teachings and storytelling you know like i find that there are there are resources to raise our children with those teachings with like nanobush nanojou right but at the same time this is a very peculiar teaching i'll provide that was something that was given to me that um we're from you know some would say a couple different ways we are the keepers of the thunderbird eggs and um i guess this is a nice little educational thing like this is a kettle this is a kettle a thunderbird egg a small those grow they grow in the water we you know i've been known to take little ones out in the water and show them where the little where the the the kettles start to grow and then they move and then they grow in bigger than cars in the water they bust out of the shale and everything else now in english they would say that you know this is due to the water you know scientists of academia would say you know due to the rising levels the rising and lowering levels of the water and the sedimentations in the water this is how these these concretions appear to grow fair enough so i had this conversation with a scientist once and i said okay in our language we say gitchi manitou and what i've been taught by that term is is that it it doesn't just mean great spirit right our language is a little diverse it holds spirit it's alive um and this comes from um my aunt who is a language speaker and um she would you know she would she she taught me that our language is alive it's spirituals and now it's not cold you know like like almost you know i don't mean to make it sound like english is cold but it it can be almost clinical in a sense i guess in that sense right can be very too precise very cold but so anyways gitchi manitou means yeah it means great spirit it also means great mystery great wonder great i don't know why phenomena it means holy smokes what's that it means a lot of different things it just doesn't mean just that one particular thing right so when i was talking with this scientist and he told me his explanation as to why these concretions grow i said oh okay so trees they provide ox yeah photosynthesis right well it's a big word that's education right there grade 10 science photosynthesis where's that grade nine i can't remember either way point is that was a number years ago and um what's photosynthesis you know the that greenery in the leaves the intake of carbon monoxide and monoxide monoxide yeah turning it into oxygen and emitting that oxygen right now so this scientist sorry i'm going off here from that end of the day so anyways the scientist says i said so the fact you know these these rocks they grow these are growing rocks sedimentations gotcha well the fact that it only happens in one place of the world it's kind of neat it's kind of neat it's kind of just a need oh thing yeah it's kind of a neat thing i think he realized where i was going with this by that point in time i go so it only happens here in kettle point and um you know they literally do kind of bust out of the ground which has nothing to do with the sedimentations of the water going up and down um that happens way out in the water as well as it happens in close to shore the big ones are way out in the water and the little ones are close to shore um and there's big ones in in close to shore too that are inside the shale busting out of the shale and then when the water is out in the lake and that my my one cousin has taught me that it goes in within sessions within years every seven to ten years the water goes out comes back in so you can sometimes when the water is out you can walk out and you can see where these giant kettles are busting out of the shale long point is as i said to this scientist i go wouldn't you think that that is rather remarkable you say yeah that is kind of remarkable that only happens here it only happens one place in the world and it's rather unique perfect so that's a bit of a phenomenon wouldn't you say yeah it is thank you then it's a great mystery it's a kitschy manner to it but understanding those components even knowing that to have that comfortability as well to have that conversation with somebody that confidence of the different things that i've even learned through life you know and that came through just experiences life in general that had nothing to do with academia that was indigenous education that i went to him with indigenous education you know it's kind of like the thing now that it's become a fad to do land acknowledgments but the true spirit of land acknowledgments is understanding that this land is alive and we need to acknowledge that's the true spirit of an island acknowledgement you know what is what about it has been alive and how have we as indigenous people in the different areas of where we're going to do this land acknowledgement or say this land acknowledgement how are we truly capturing the spirit of mother earth in that specific section that's in this education understanding you know this i guess i don't know how it's to say this this nipki zi bijao in a thundering river of the south you know when you think of where it starts in lake ontario it's nice and soft and calm and it works its way towards niger river and it plunges over it picks up speed and then it plunges over the cliff and it goes and it creates cut itself into the ground by creating that gorge and as it flows down it's got all kinds of rapids and reoxygenates itself and then flows back and it comes to another calm level and flows back out into lake ontario let alone do we say that this is this is the veins the blood of mother earth but yet that is how she also reoxygenates herself too and reoxygenates her blood so at the same time you know our people wouldn't you know if they're you're knowing that are you kidding me that they didn't know that that was there they would have been wondering you know if there were thousands of miles away they would have been able to see that all that smoke all this mist going up in the air they would have said what's going on over there and then they would have walked over here this isn't a new place for our people i forget how to say the name and the nishinab and what i really do i was trying to think about the other day but um it has its own name in all languages for its place it was a sacred area we looked at these places as sacred places of prayer there are a phenomena there are gichi manatu right so they were again that's that same thing so our teachings and everything are you know knowing that first man and weina bajou was through here weina bajou came by here visited here and you know um yeah knowing that these stories and and when i think of some of these other questions the stories of children and grandchildren and what have i told and understanding even the stories of how would why do bees fly in a flock you know it's because nano bush tied all their feet together even that right because and that's a short that's very short because really he went trying he got it was it's a teaching of greed though too right he went in and tried to he got one of them and pulled them underwater and he took the one back to shore and he ate it he was wanted some more so he went and swam under and grabbed some more geese and and went back to shore and ate them he really liked that so he went back again the next day he thought he'd grab a whole bunch and he thought he'd be smart about it and tie their feet together once they realized that what he was going to do is that the geese started oh my god we're struggling he's pulling us all under the water he's going to take us all and eat us all and we need to work together and then they literally started to fly up together and even lifted nano bush into the air and then that even comes I've even used that teaching in a modern context today of how do you utilize that teaching in terms of a corporate teamwork environment I've turned that teaching into a corporate teaching on teamwork where what does it mean when you know you fly together what is honking about you know why do geese honk and it's about encouraging each other um that when one geese goes down another one goes down with it because it is sick or it's is injured or something is wrong with it like one goose does not go down by itself usually two will go down with it so that way it's not by itself and then if something were to happen to that goose like if it were to perish then the other two would just take off and join another flock or catch up to its own flock here in our NC I would like to see an indigenous school that's what I'd like to see within the next 10 years an indigenous school that provides um land-based programming meaning that literally that the children learn how to make these bows that they learn how to fish and clean a fish um that they also learn how to make a madodo swan a sweat lodge um that they learn their language that they learn their spirituality because they're one of the same if you learn your language and you're learning you're supposed to be able to learn your spirituality I know that might be a little counterproductive for those indigenous people that are that prescribe to a different religion but in essence what they have yet to learn is that we're you know that spiritual journey is we all go to the same place period that's the way I look at it it's it's something that's very dear to my heart you know I've got you know because especially once you become a parent and then you become a grandparent then you really start to look at that different loss perspective of life so I do look at it now differently than I even did as a father as a macho amus I look at it even totally different now in terms of what is education going to look like for my grandchildren my grandchildren's grandchildren I might even be able to see some of them who knows so or my grandchildren's children I would like to see the day when when our people are walking and speaking their language fluently you know almost like how the French will speak French in front of you and not disclose what they're speaking about our people have always done that though and it's not to be decisive but to have that level of pride though too that's more what I'm talking about sometimes my bitterness of what has happened to my families comes out and I need to remember to demogon adult you know I need to let that go when I see that can that indigenous people are are meaning are at the same level of stratification within Canadian society and that we have a level of privilege that we can give to our children that a lot of people across the lake can provide to their children that in 10 years that we also develop a strategy that that's inclusive for not just the children but for the struggling adults the moms and dads that are still dealing with the trauma to date that maybe tomorrow they reach back for their education statistically I my part of my own research was is that sometimes these young families these young moms and dads they'll start their families early they'll leave school and once they're done building their family they'll then return to school to finish off their their grade 12 and reach back for their grade 12 so sometimes it could be even in I think part of my research showed that one mom reached back when she was 27 one mom reached back she was 30s up to even 43 you know and now we're starting to see a new program developed under the Friendship Centers called Homeward Bound which is actually working with victimized women and their children um whether and and and well it's mostly homelessness initiative as well so homeless homeless mothers with their children that may be dealing with even justice issues so it's literally taking that mother and their children and finding them where they are helping them re-establish themselves and that could be housing first education um getting it's about getting them back on their feet and empowering them so that they can get themselves into their own home you know I know I won't speak about the Anishinaabe clan from yesteryear you know because the the challenges that Anishinaabe clan faced today are a lot different than they were yesteryear you know um but having said that yeah education I would have definitely have to see where you know I like to see more language apps you know for people to have their language available and learn again it's the fluency our ceremonies you know everybody should be able to access their ceremonies no matter where they are or they're being in the Niagara region here or it be uh shisha I don't know can-am and Windsor you know everybody should be able to in an urban setting even downtown Toronto should be able to access their traditional teachings and ceremonies right there um because if if we've established ourselves over the last like I've heard that there are five generations deep in the cities now so if we're that deep into the cities then why aren't we providing that as as a means for our people that's what I have to say about that and when it comes to our education that we are in control of our education that we have more and more educators that are of help you know that that that they've dealt with their their intergenerational transgenerational trauma that they've dealt with everything that they've moved on the mug and adult that they've let that go um you know there's a there's there's so many different levels of achievement or definitions of success that uh indigenous people have yet to define do I think that it's necessarily through Eurocentric educational uh means no I don't never have I I feel that indigenous people have their ability to say that we don't necessarily need it always but if you do want to go into a specific profession or area then you are going to need this academic requirement if you're going to become this or become that like a carpenter or electrician a teacher or lawyer there are certain aspects and capacities and criteria there's certain um verbiage and language you know so much that needs to be learned with those professions that you know it's it's not just saying you know yeah you can be a fisherman you don't need a grade 12 to be a fisherman kind of thing you know or a hunter my only problem with that is is that I do know of a hunter that if he is suffering here she is suffering from addictions or whatever that we we need to gauge there's got to be something a give and take there too because as much as we can promote our community members to say yeah you don't need a grade 12 to be a community member you know because you have to be part of community um that's that indigenous way you're going to be part of a community you got to help with community you know and we'll get back there as as indigenous people our communities will get stronger and stronger I already know of this but we need to move away from those dysfunctional behaviors those distractions of life because I know of this one hunter he he's feeding his addiction and and he he rolled over over a hundred deer one year and didn't provide one piece of meat to the elders of his community that is where I say that again you know as much as I say that education is good and good for Anishinaabe in that sense for those professional jobs that they want to go that way well if you're also not going to do that then you need to help the elders is kind of what I'm saying you know if you're going to subscribe to that Anishinaabe you'll get your first priority is to feed protect and provide for the weak and the meek and those who cannot defend themselves or or take care of themselves there are many old people in our communities who don't have hunters and fishers or healthy men or women in their families to help take care of the statue on the front so we need that to if you're not going to go this way and you're going to live this this other old Anishinaabe way with those beautiful traits of the world embracing all the resources the Creator God Creator God Allah however you want to refer has given us you know it's the ceiling of our church is the sky we can't even say that the sky is a limit because that's putting a limit on something you know all I have to say is that within the Creator's infinite powers and wisdom do we really think that we're only limited to one way of thinking one way of being one way of this or one way of that the medicine will teaches us that these four sacred ways of walking and living praying and believing are all equal they're supposed to be equal not one is better than the other it's all equal pieces of the pie and one you know it isn't three colors it isn't one color it is four colors it's four directions it is four seasons it is four medicines it's four four four many different things so yeah there is lots I would say that needs to you know I know that those old ones would even be need to be consulted about that what do they see the elders always need to be asked these same questions you know that's what I'd also have to say about all of this that it's one thing to ask community members community people that are in different positions but our teachings even tell us that that doesn't necessarily mean that that person knows their people that that person knows their ways that that person knows their teachings I don't know all my teachings I'm still learning I'll always be learning but I don't profess to say that I know them all I'm still an infant I guess in some senses when it comes to our teachings and our language and but I think I'm maybe not so much an infant maybe I'm a I'm an adolescent or a teenager in some respects so there we all come at it and differently