 Hi, and welcome to a special edition of Issues and Answers. This is a production of the Government Information Service. My name is Elvis Thomas, Acting Assistant Superintendent of Police with responsibility for press and public relations. With me this morning, I have two gentlemen. One is Acting Superintendent of Police, Mr. Bernard Gaston, who is the officer in charge of the Complaints Unit, and Sergeant 70 Andrew Mackie, also of the Police Complaints Unit. Welcome gentlemen to Issues and Answers. Thank you. Thank you very much. Acting Superintendent Gaston, we've heard of the Complaints Unit. Can you give us an insight into the role and function of the Complaints Unit? Before I respond, let me just thank you for inviting us to your programme and I want to compliment you and congratulate you for initiating this particular programme. Thank you very much. It's our pleasure to be here. You're welcome. As you would well appreciate, our democracy actually is predicated on the rule of law. So what this means is that none of us is above the law. Nobody is above the law. All of us are subject to the law. And as such, police officers who are responsible for law enforcement have to be guided by that principle as well. So we have to adhere to the laws, the regulations, the procedures and processes that governs the work that we do. And we have to ensure that we conform with them otherwise we would be in conflict with the law itself. So we can't be a law unto ourselves. Therefore, it was necessary that the legislature put in place certain rules, certain laws that would ensure that our work is scrutinised and that we are beyond reproach in the work that we do as law enforcement. And as such, sometime in 2003, by way of an act of parliament, the legislature passed laws that ensured that there was the establishment of two entities to look into complaints made by members of the public with regard to the conduct of police officers. These two entities are one, the Police Complaints Commission, which is a group of people who are responsible for oversight of the work of the second entity, which is the Complaints Unit, which I now had. And the Complaints Unit is responsible for the investigation of complaints against police officers by members of the public. And the second function of that particular unit, the Complaints Unit, is the resolution of such complaints by members of the public in ways that are prescribed by the Complaints Police Complaints Act itself. So these are the two main functions of the Police Complaints Unit. Insofar as the role of the Complaints Unit, as you would appreciate, we are a professional organisation and professional standards that governs our operations as an organisation have to be guarded very jealously. And so we are a unit that contributes to the maintenance of these professional standards through the investigative work that we carry out and the sort of resolutions that we bring to the complaints made by members of the public against police officers. So that is our role primarily as a Complaints Unit. Now, thank you very much. Now you spoke to the Complaints Unit and the Complaints Commission. Can you tell the public where is that office located? Our office is located on Brazill Street. There is a very popular store I think that most solutions will be familiar with. It's called Big Mama Store. It's at the corner of Bourbon and Brazill Street in Castries. It's quite accessible. So that's where we are located. And the commission as well is also located in the same building on the same floor with our office on Brazill Street at its corner with Bourbon Street. Thank you very much. Sergeant Maki, if one has a report, can you tell me what is the process for reporting a matter to the Complaints Unit? Okay, well first of all, ASP Thomas, the reports made by the public does not come directly to the unit. The reports are made through the Police Complaints Commission. They are the ones who receive all reports. There is an administrative assistant there who receives that report and documents that and what is referred to as a complaint form. That complaint form would have the name of the person making the complaint and other particulars like the address, contact number. Also, if the police officer is known by the individual, the police officer would be named in that. And they would have the particulars of the complaint where it happened, the date and so forth. After the commission has received that complaint from the individual, they would sign that. Also, the commission would give it what is referred to as a PCC number and then that would be transmitted to the unit. And that would also indicate on it sometimes how the individual wants the complaint dealt with. So is the Complaints Commission located in the same building or is it somewhere else? No, as the officer said, the commission is in the same building with the unit. We actually are on the same floor, a doorway from each other. So if I am somewhere in Viewford and an incident happened, must I come to the Complaints Commission to make that report or can I make that report at the police station? Okay, there is nothing saying that you cannot make that report at the police station. However, you would still have to visit the commission at this time where you would be making that official complaint to the commission in order for it to be handled. Most times at the station, the officer may just take the report, document it and then still as his actions state that you need to go to the commission to follow up with that report that you made. What must be taken into consideration very importantly is the fact that the preference is for complaints to be received by the Police Complaints Commission. So what you don't want necessarily is for the initial stage at which a complaint is made against a police officer, for a police officer to be the one receiving the complaint. And I think that was deliberate. The lawmakers intended it to be that way so that there is this level of objectivity at the initial stage. And as you would, I'm sure, appreciate as well, the skepticism regarding the whole question of police investigating police has been around for a long time and will continue to be with us. So any effort to diminish that particular perception to give more or allow more confidence in the process will definitely serve well so that the issue of making the initial complaint should be the responsibility and receiving the initial complaint should be the responsibility of the commission. And then that complaint will be transmitted to the complaints unit for investigations. So it might be unfortunate that someone from Viewfort may have to come to the commission in castries to make the complaint. But that is what is required to give some semblance of objectivity or a fairer process of making complaints against the police. Thank you gentlemen for a very interesting first segment. You have been viewing a special segment of issues and answers with the police complaints unit. Please stay tuned. We will be right back. Good morning sir. Good morning. Nice to have you. Yeah, thanks. How was your weekend? Same thing. I went to the beach but to tell you the truth, I should have just stay home and sleep. I just feel like I need help with my future goal but I just don't know where to start. I love my job but I'm not as productive as I used to be. Maybe I should speak to a counsellor. What should I do? But it's so expensive. It's not my business you know. But look, it's not even this link to you. You work with the government of Zanluja and the ministry of the public services offering free counselling to government workers under the Employee Assistance Programme. Really? The ministry is offering free counselling services for government workers? Yes, it's easier as calling the unit. The EAP telephone number 468-2269. Call them. If you have to pour out your heart, talk with a caring professional who is trained to listen to your deepest feelings. Call the EAP unit at 468-2269. EAP works, let it work for you. Joe, you were saying something? Welcome back. Thank you. This is a special edition of Issues and Answers with me, members of the Complaints Unit, Acting Superintendent Bernard Gaston and Sergeant 70 Andre Markey. We continue with the questions. Can you tell me gentlemen, how are matters dealt with when reports are made to the units? Okay. Upon the unit receiving a complaint, the matter is dealt with in one of two ways, either formally or informally. Informally is whereby the complainant has decided that they would like to meet with the officer to try to resolve the matter, similar to a mediation. The officer was in charge of the unit who set up a date and time where the officer and the complainant would meet and they would try to resolve that issue, that the allegation or the complaint that is made against that officer. However, if that matter is not resolved there, that complaint, if the complainant's desire can now move into the formal stage. The formal stages whereby an investigator is assigned and investigations are conducted into the matter and at the end of it all, the investigator has to prepare a file based on the investigations that are carried out. If there is sufficient evidence, then the matter is sustained and it is transmitted with recommendations that disciplinary action should be taken against this officer. And similarly, if there is not sufficient evidence, then the matter is not sustained. So now that you have spoken of this, you at times will hear one speak to not having confidence in the process or in the unit and the length of time that takes for a matter to be dealt with. Can you say something to the public that would encourage them, Mr. Gasto, or would give them greater confidence in the unit and the process? Well, first of all, I understand and appreciate why there would be a lack of confidence in the process that says police officers investigating police officers. And this has been a long, outstanding issue, right? But what I can say is that I've been head in this department for a year and I've been around, I've seen the work done by the unit for a long time. And I can ensure, members of the public, that it is working. The work of the unit is evidence-based and when complaints are made, they will be investigated thoroughly. And as long as there is evidence to suggest that police conduct is not in keeping with the rules, the laws of St. Lucia, then recommendations would be made for action to be taken. And I could assure you that in very many cases action have been taken and action will be taken against police officers moving forward. What I can assure you as well is that under my watch, and I have said it to police officers, if you have conducted yourself professionally within the ambits of the rules, regulations and laws that govern your work, whether or not complaints are made against you, nothing is going to happen to you. However, if you fail to conform with the rules, regulations and the procedures that govern your work and complaints are made against you and there is evidence to support such, then quite naturally action will be taken. And we have indicated before that nobody is above the law, we are not above the law and we have to work within the confines of the law to ensure that we remain relevant in the eyes of the public. So I can assure the public and I could vouch for the fact that the process works. I understand the skepticism, however, most of it in my mind is misconceived because it's a situation where police officers are investigating police officers. But these are police officers who are specially selected, who have the requisite skills and competence to investigate thoroughly matters that involve complaints against police officers. And when they do, I could assure you that it is done beyond reproach and that you should have confidence in this process. It is what we have and until it can be replaced by something better. As anything else, it's not 100% proof, but it is what we have and until it can be replaced by a better process, we have to support and have confidence that it could serve the purpose for which it was created. But you still find persons saying that nothing happens to the police officer, but you just spoke to saying that the process is working and things are happening. Can you give us some information? Do you have any information that you can provide to the public to tell them that action has been taken and that the process is working? Do you have any statistics that you can provide us with at this point, probably during the last year or the last quarter, as to matters that have been dealt with? Before we go to the statistics and Sergeant Markey will articulate what the statistics suggest. But before we go to that, quite recently, the department investigated two very serious matters involving allegations of criminal conduct by police officers against members of the public. We investigated those matters thoroughly. On completion, we found evidence of the complaints made so that the complaints were substantiated by evidence. We proceeded to arrest both of the officers in the matters spoken of and were about to prefer criminal charges against those officers. But obviously what was necessary to have undertaken that process fully was the cooperation and involvement of the virtual complainants who made the complaints. What happened is that to the end, when charges would have been preferred, the virtual complainants opted not to proceed and vehemently indicated the lack of interest in proceeding with the matters. So the fact of the matter is, our role was performed, carried out fully, professionally. However, the complainants changed their minds and they did not want to proceed with the matters anymore. These are two examples of cases that should give members of the public the confidence that this process can work. However, their role in ensuring that the process works is very integral. And if at any juncture the complainants are going to either recant or lose interest in the matters, then it would mean that action will not be taken in a lot of these cases. Thank you very much. Sajan Maki, can you briefly provide us with some statistics? Okay, as to the statistics put into the number of cases that has been resolved even for last year, that is not the primary function of the department. What I can provide you, because this is done by the adjudicators office, what I can provide you if I can tell you that there has been a significant decrease of the number of complaints received by the department when you look at the number of complaints for 2016 and 2017. We had a reduction of 27 complaints. Because one of the things that apart from the department being primarily concerned about investigations, we also put things in place to see how we can reduce the number of complaints that are made against police officers. Thank you gentlemen. We have been listening to a special edition of Issues and Answers with Acting Superintendent Bernard Gaston and Sergeant 70 Andri Maki of the Complaints Unit. Any closing comments? Well, I just want to let members of the public know that we remain committed and resolute to ensuring that the conduct of police officers, bad conduct in particular, does not go unnoticed or unchecked. And we are, as law enforcement officers, subject to all the laws of St. Lucia, the procedures and rules that we have to follow. And the unit will leave no stones unturned to ensure that we investigate matters and resolve complaints against police officers and members of the public fully. And you could rest assured that we will continue to do that in the future to ensure that we maintain the good image of the Royal Central Police Force in the future. So, thank you gentlemen for coming and thank you viewers for watching. Like I said, this has been a special edition of Issues and Answers. Until we meet again, goodbye.