 I apologize. All planning commission members. I have nothing prepared for the sign part of the conversation content neutrality. Okay. So that has to be tabled. All right. So we will we do have members of the tree advisory committee here tonight who are anxious to share things with us. So that should give us a good start on our meeting tonight. So item three is minute the approval of the October 7th regular meeting. Has everybody had a chance to look at the meeting minutes? Yeah. And I'll take a motion to approve the minute. So moved. I wasn't here in a second. Yeah. I second. All right. Any discussion or changes to the minutes? I didn't see anything. Did the guys online notice anything? Any comments on the minute? Perfect. So all in favor of the minutes as issued say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. Thank you. Work session. Finally, we continue with our land development code and are happy to have the tree advisory committee here tonight. So gentlemen, we know both of you, but come on. Hello, everybody. Okay. Can you hear? Yeah, I can see now too. Yeah. Cool. You might have to lower our volume though. All right. Nick and Warren, right? Yeah. Well, thank you all for inviting the tree committee to come and comment on chapter seven and allowing us a chance to maybe improve the document and make it a little better plan regarding to section seven one nine and the landscape requirements. I sent out a letter and also the suggested changes and hopefully you might have seen them. Good. Okay. And I'm thinking that I'll just do an introduction and then Warren would be able to go through it sort of an aligned by line basis of where we think some changes should be made. In general, I think that there's a good language in the existing code, but some improvements are needed, especially when we're talking about the downtown district as well as the corridor roads that will be redeveloped over time. And these locations definitely present much larger challenges to have a sustainable landscape and need to need to be treated a little bit differently. And I think what we're looking at is, you know, better oversight during the installation process and when we go back and say a little bit better planning requirements and then oversight when trees or plants are put in the ground installation. And then on the other end, if we have failures to have accountability amongst the developers to replant as they are supposed to be replanted and to be in good condition. So it's oversight and accountability are two big ones to say. And we suggest that the Planning Commission utilizes the three committee, the new city of S6 Junction three committee and and the tree warden to review landscape projects that come in and that we can offer you suggestions and improvements to make it a better project. And given that we're just an advisory, you can take some of those or not, since you have the final word on things. I don't think it would add a lot of time to your deliberations for us to see it and try and give you some advice. I think that we reviewing some of the setbacks that we have now if we're trying to create a pedestrian friendly green streetscape, you really need to look at the setbacks and have something more than essentially no setback and some of these projects because it doesn't give you any opportunity to do plantings there that are going to be sustainable. And sure, you can throw a tree in the ground and put it in one that we call the cell coffins for trees and have nothing and it may look great initially, but down the road, it's going to be terrible and it's just going to take away from the whole landscape. The whole idea is to create a really sustainable project that everyone will appreciate. So I think that's kind of the nuts and bolts of what we're what we see and hope we can work with you and we'd love to work with you in the future on more project. Awesome. Warren, do you have any other comments? Well, we sent the comments to the folks a while back and we were asked to go through section 719 in relation to landscaping. My first run through that, I thought it was not bad. It's pretty good. You know, nicely done and our suggestions as we went through it. Basically, there are a few tweaks here and there, some additions and they can go through that now and see if anyone has any comments. Also, let folks know that aren't here, that I am the village pre-warden for those of you who don't know. So I'm pretty much involved with a lot of entry issues that go on with the village. The design and development of properties, residential and commercial is just another piece of the pie. So glad to help out if I can. And in his professional career, he was the city of Burlington's Arbor. So he has how many years been there? 38 years. So we are really fortunate to have him a resident of the junction. So I have a question before you get started. Are you working from the hard copy manual or are you working from any of the additions? Well, there weren't too many additions. What I saw the latest rendition that was sent out, I think, on October 13th? Yeah, the October one. I looked at that today. It's got the comments from stormwater in it. Mostly related to stormwater. That may be what some of you are looking at. And I believe it was Chelsea down there that went through this. Not really. I kind of like to keep it clean. That would be my here. There's a really long section on the stormwater, which I looked at briefly. And maybe there could be some captions in here, perhaps right under a I think that's her sense. Was that where she had the first one? Yeah, you wanted to put a bee in there and had the piece in it. Maybe that you reference that the stormwater section. Right. So they don't get to make stuff with developers. Yeah. So have a place for vegetation. Right. So just, John, do you want me to share the actual 719 on the screen? Is that helpful to anybody? So these folks have just, you know, their two page edits, but I could put the full text up on the screen if that's helpful. Or is that easiest just to walk through this? I mean, I've got a copy of it with previous comments. So I mean, I'm fine. But if anybody else wants to see them up on the screen, we can go through them live. That would be probably very helpful. Yeah, I think that would be helpful. Okay. So I'll share. So you guys just worked through your couple free pages and I'll have the actual text up on the screen. And just before we get started, I want Robin to remind us, you currently have advisory capacity on village right of ways, right? So we already do that. You do that. And so what we what you're basically proposing is that we continue that review advisory capacity through any proposal. Yes. Yeah. And make it because we really have to call a view for any other proposals. If it was on a private property, you could ask for it. But generally, it's only been on those in the right of way. And I don't know, we've had, like, we've had a flurry of proposals. So I was just trying to figure out what kind of workload that means for you. But it's not like you'd be busy every week doing a proposal. Right, right. Also mentioned, not that we don't have anything to do, we're both retired. If we can help you out, we're willing to do that. Awesome. And there are other experts, you know, they're landscape designers who are on our three committee. So it's not just the two of us. And on a sort of an overall theme for you know, the village and, and I know we're pretty flexible in what we allow people to plant and it can be left up to them and their landscape architects when it gets into a project that requires that, which is most of them, that you know, there's some leeway and license for them to design something. But I don't know if the village has an overall strategy and a scheme. I know you've done some plantings in the village, right away recently that have been pretty significant. So as far as being able to have a master plan, is that something that you have as the advisory committee or does the village actually have a master plan already of desired landscaping? Well, we kind of do in a sense in our management plan. So we have to and we have the policy which is kind of like the ordinances if you will, they're not called that, but a lot of it relates to that with definitions. And we also have that in the management plan as well. The scheme, the big scheme right now is diversity in the landscaping in the selection process. And right now we're faced with emerald ash borer and certain section of the village where we've got four or five trees with total ash trees on both sides of the road. And we've been working in that neighborhood for three years, making adjustments, replanting with different species. And that's what we want to continue. So for example, what I've noticed right here on Park Street is there were some landscaping that just went in front of the new building, which are the same trees that are on the building next to that, which is the one across the road. And in the sidewalk plantings across the street. So what I would have suggested if I looked at the plan, this is all hypothetical now, is that the new trees that just went in front of that building were not maples, but were a different type. They are columner because it's tight. I understand that. But there's other options. That would then my recommendation had come to me from the planning commission. And that's to diversify. Yeah. And that's something that's very important with your urban tree management in any community. And that's in the bottom line is so that you don't have something, some insect that these come in and take all your street trees up. Like Burlington's Elms or whatever neighborhood's ashes. Yeah. So yeah, we're nice with that tree issues now. And there's others on the way, I hate to say so, but focusing on okay. So starting in a we had made a recommendation after number five to six. And that was to create an inviting pedestrian friendly streetscape. And there is there is the guide, which I think we gave to Robin was created by the Vermont Urban Community Forestry, called Vermont Green Street Treats Guide, which is pretty impressive. And there it is, guess who had it. So this is this is a great tool, because references are part of this whole plan as well. So anyway, that was the first thing we decided to add. And then of course, me being a municipal arborist, when I saw the tree protection, and it reads well, but what it's what it's lacking is who's going to develop a plan? You're asking for a plan. But who's going to develop? And I think it's important that it's developed by a consulting arborist or a landscape architect that has experience in tree protection. Because that'll be on your sheets for development, your plant that will have that right in it. It should have it in it. But anyway, what you need to you need to be asking so that you can see it. That's another recommendation. Also, the village will be compensated for any tree or shrub that is removed from the village right away with equal Trump size for diameter. That's that's also if they're going to remove trees. How are we going to get compensated? You mean cash? It could be monetary value to the trees are too big to be replaced. And there may not be room. And I have done that in the village, most recently this year, when the trees were removed on Pearl Street, with Belko and the lines crossed, we got compensated nicely for that. And that money comes into the budget. And then we will use that money in our planting process around the village. So in other words, just taking them out, putting them back, you know, you sometimes that's the best way to go. You have to look look out for which best for the community. Is that sorry, if the planning commission wants me to ask something, would I write this as first priority that trees are replaced in some way? Second priority would be compensation of value or should it be generic? You might say if they can't be replaced for if they're you know, there are certain circumstances where maybe they can't be replaced. You know, it makes sense on this project with Velko that they were not replaced. So but your other options that you just come down and that's it and we don't get anything for them. There are value to the community and to the village, you know, there is a monetary value for your landscape. And that we've seen I think in a number of projects here on Maple Street, we had trees that were planted along Maple Street, those came down with the Maple Street project. And I believe we had a couple of trees on the eight or eight park. It's now what is called eight or 11, eight, 11 part that were removed. John Patrick has a question. Yes, Patrick. Well, first off, what's the best way for me to announce myself? Is it just to raise my hand or should I try and speak and then wait for a spark to jump in? We'll try the hand raising and and we can, you know, if it's not working, you can jump in. Okay, sounds good. So what I was just thinking of in in my professional world, what we what we call something like that is a one for one replacement plan. We don't I mean, I do it in terms of housing units. But if trees are to be removed, they should then submit a plan one for one. So you're going to remove one and replace it somehow in another fashion. I just like to phrase one for one replacement plan. It seems to kind of speak to that. Comment. I would say one for one is okay, but size is important in diameter. Yeah, so in sorry, I guess I should define the one for one it's in terms of like affordable housing, it has to be equal to or better than the housing that was destroyed. So it would be the same or the replacement housing has to be equal to or better than the housing that was removed. So it kind of be along those same sentiments that the tree to be replaced has to be equal to or better than in trunk size diameter, however we wanted to find that but equal to or better than Yeah, so here's an example. If you took down a six inch caliper tree and you wanted to replace it, not it's not too easy to replace it because it's caliper tree that you could but you could replace it with three two inch caliper trees that equal trunk diameter. Okay, that's all that would work. I'm not sure I agree with that. But but I get it. It's yeah, so just three trees where you used to have one and you know, 20 years for it to get back up to six inches. Alright, so I'm thinking we're taking a lot of notes and what we'll probably do is we'll have to have some deliberation session. There's a whole lot of comments and suggestions we've had on all parts of this. So I don't know that we're leaving tonight with an agreement, but I like where you're headed with this. So Okay, I'd be like that. Yeah. And I think a lot of these are important because we've got some language in the code already, but it doesn't it doesn't really address what we're talking about. It needs the supplemental language. Yeah. Next one is C. And that's street, it's tight street tree. I started thinking about that today in municipalities and cities in Vermont. There's been a new change. And that in the tree warden laws. And I don't know if you knew they just want to under review when we've been in this process with I'm on the Vermont Ruby Community Forestry Council, representing free wardens on the council. And we've been working on this for a long time. And to get this through the legislators and Montalier took a while. But it finally happened this year. And the league was a role in that. I don't know if you are up with that or not. But anyway, so the recent landscape changes of it's called Act 171 in 2020 for this year. So one of the things that's changed is what we call the trees in our municipalities now they are no they're they're now called shade trees. And shade trees is referenced to any tree that's in your plan or in your inventory or in your parks that you're caring for. So within the village, because we don't have a lot of rural roads, it's pretty much any tree in the village, right? We've already got an inventory. So the new term for that is going to be shade tree. So looking at our tree management plan and our policy and our definitions, we call them street trees and one and public trees and another. So we will spearhead a change there. Is that the kind of thing where anytime we read street trees, we're going to change it to shade trees, just to be consistent with direct. Yeah, I think that's I think that's the way we should move on this as your tree word. And we now for a model. So do we one of the things we've tried to do is reference those laws in there just so you know, if you need a definition for that, it's tied to the law. Yeah. But if I just thought I'd point that out because that is new. We're on that thing, because we talk about street trees and this tree is being near or close to the street. Because when we're looking at a plan, we also talk about shade trees, let's say in the rear of a property, okay, for the old property parking lot or so parking lots and that sort of thing. Well, anyway, that being shade trees for definitely for the parking lot, which is why we're talking about how would how should we differentiate? Well, there the differentiation here is public versus private property. Okay, so private property, call them whatever you want. But the reference for in the public right away now is is shade trees. If they're under the jurisdiction of management of that community. So that's, it's important that I think that when we get into any, any material we have policy management plan will have you that's referencing vegetation and there is this public tree, shade tree, street tree, they should all be one. We just would have to think through if you have any, I don't know if this really happens in the village, any new private growths for a subdivision? It can happen. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's happened with autumn calling. We've been trying to make any new PUD private. Okay. The 40 foot planting requirement may not apply. On C3, I believe right now, we're making a recommendation to a tree protection plan must be submitted on the tail end of that. Because you are preserving existing mature trees along the right way. No, remind misinterpreting that I'm reading that after your recent statement to mean any tree that is a public tree. Yes. Yeah. In other words, not along the right way, but in the public right away and under the control of the village. And if there's going to be some, you know, preservation plan for those mature trees, actually, giant should be along and in should be both. Because isn't there a move to get some of the street shade trees, street trees on probably properly, but they are within the purview of the village, the key for providing shade is that having them just slightly off as opposed to in the right away. Well, we were opportunities are not in the right of way. We will reach out to a private landowner and agree to plant tree for them to take care of the first year. But it does become their responsibility. And we are not responsible for it after that time. But in a sense, you are treating the street words, we're able to get the gold. We're in a situation in the village outside of the part of the downtown center here where a lot of our streets doesn't we have to do work with homeowners where we can. We plant them on the public right away. Also, it's a great way to continue getting trees on the street. I'm going to read above the first thing here by John Albers. I remember she used to give some history with the exception of about three minutes. Almost every tree is on private property but coming right into the public right of way. So the one beauty about doing that is the communities, if they're on, if they're shading the street within the private property, the village or town or city doesn't have to maintain it. So we can't call them shade trees or in the public tree definition there because they're on private land. So we just we'll have to figure out it going forward. Yeah, you guys will get another shot at whatever language we come up with, but never say shade trees and private trees and say shade trees or trees on public right of way. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So I understand the 40 foot thing. I understand the tree protection plan. Now you're talking about during construction of a project, you're not talking about after it gets planted, you're talking about. I have a project that's going to impact a property. And if I want my trees to survive that construction process, I need to fence them off or keep things from trashing the root balls. Tree within the project boundaries that could be affected by construction of whatever you're building. There needs to be and you want them to be part of your landscape plan, or 50% or whatever it was that can be protected. You would need to have a protection plan by qualified individuals. So you know that this is going to be overlooked and you're going to go back there on site and you're going to see, you know, part ripped off the tree that wants to be saved. There's no protection fencing around it. And they've just gone crazy on the site. That's the last thing you want to see. That's the purpose for the plan. And then it's, it already says in here that someone from the planning commission, it could be Robin, it could be me, some from from the village can go on that property and make sure that they're in compliance. So this isn't, I tied a pink ribbon around the tree. That's right. A little better than that. And that's where damages come in as well. Yeah. C pretty much done D in the landscape. So section three, there are a number of trees. It gets confusing looking at all the in terms of how how you read it. Yeah. So I think we're still, it is D and it's number three A. The commission may require review of closed landscaping. We think you should say shall require. I'm just curious why you wouldn't want it. I guess in some ways, if the applicants required to have a registered landscape architect through the plan, then we get into value judgments. It all sounds the opposite. I mean, you should is that isn't it wouldn't we just strike the whole center and say the landscape plan will be reviewed by the tree advisory committee? Well, we're that's kind of we're going to get into that. I think down there. And then it's reviewed and the plan may want to make a note. Do you need that in there or not? Yeah, it may be covered elsewhere. That's the other thing to go through and see what what if there's anything that's doubled up in your Yeah, we're going to be careful about because it's the village at the Capitol Building Committee or a building committee. Are they then going to start reviewing architectural drawings? You gotta I think it's easier. I don't know. I think it's easier if the plan isn't designed by registered landscape architect. That's fine. I thought they were required to be only a certain amount of time. Yeah, okay. But almost I would say the 85% of projects would be reviewed by the advisory committee based on just changing that one. It's always nice to have them look at and I go back to making sure that the diversity of the tree species is there. So that we don't get too many of the same kind build up by the time. And that's that's one of the important things I think about this. Okay, section four, which is where it's going to take some patience. Because we kind of looked at this and thinking, well, this is where you might say the meat and potatoes are for making sure you get what you want and get the right language in there so that the developers, landscape architect knows what you're looking for. And then knows in the end that someone will be looking out to make sure that they're adhered to. So to start out with installation, which is a so we'd like to change that and call it materials and specification, write the text and replace it with all plant material shall be in accordance with the American standards for nursery stock, the ANSI V60 or a later version. All installations shall follow acceptable horticultural practices as described in the most current ANSI A300 planting and transplanting standards. And another recommendation for a source like John held up with the treason shrubs, the principles and practice of planting treason shrubs, authored by Watson and Hemlick and published by the International Society of Arboretical So there, that says what you're looking for. And the both of those manuals that I mean, the ANSI standards. Everybody should not put everybody's normally using in your your opinion. And right. Yeah. I mean, and any landscape market that is gonna know those standards probably gonna have a copy of it right in their office. And the other book that's referenced there, is it consistent with those standards there? Yeah, the the A300s are actually get into saying how the trees should be planted. But most most firms get this with LAs. Yeah. So I don't think that's that the problem where what we what we want to see as a community here is when the project goes in, and the landscape contractor is the one that we need to be making sure they adhere to this. Okay. So when you see your prints, when your plan sheets come in, and you look at this needs to be on that. That's going to cover you. Yeah, I've seen a lot of planting, you know, diagrams that I can't say I remember seeing that they comply with these code requirements. But that's in the best way to do that. And just with the hard things, you've got to be there when the landscaping is going in. So that's a different thing, right? Yeah, that's totally different. And would I mean, what do we have do that? Is there is there we don't have anybody that does that now, right? The only one that would be up is your volunteer tree work at this point. You know, it's in the lap and the most is on it. Yeah, that's how you know you're going to get what you asked for, because sustainability and down the road, whether it's the installation of the tree installation of the soils that go in, it's all so important. But so, Warren, we have instructions in some cases, we're on the plan, it must it says that someone from the village must be there to witness installation. A lot of it has to do with typing services underground stuff underground So in this case, we could possibly with to to have a similar statement. Yeah, well, for example, when you're having certain things go in that need to be inspected, you're going to have an engineer there. You know, it's going to be the village engineer, probably Rick Hamlin, Steve or Steve, one of his folks to oversee it and make sure it's done right. Same scenario should happen in the landscape world as well. So anyway, So this last document, principles and practices of planting trees shrub. So we should not refer to that as standards. The standards are in other That is a reference. So this would maybe not live in the LDC. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Because that is that is kind of another reference on how to that could be a reference could be just thought we would put it in doesn't have to stay there. I think I need a different I need to add a I think you got two sided and we know I got Yeah, I've got to talk to you. Well, let me see. That's the backside there. Anyone else need one? This one has a correct back. Yeah, these are single sided too. Weird. All the others are two sided. Yeah, if you pray through that yourself, you need one, John. No, I'm I guess just these two here. Yeah, I'm adding another B here that includes that installation observation village staff or figure out who's going to do that. And then so V comes C and there's going to be some changes of the letters. After that, you have maintenance, which may now be C. I don't know. We'll figure that out later. But under maintenance, that all is well and good. And so you get way down to the end. And that's where I wanted to add that the very end of the maintenance is trees greater than five inches of caliper. Their replacement value will be assessed by the village tree word. So this comes into play when a tree cannot be replaced. And it goes back to our monetary value compensation for our loss. Some of the same things like what I did on first. And then that that individual developer, whoever it is, would then have to, you know, see that and then they can agree or disagree. And then we'll we can go down that road later. But then they would end up compensating the village for the loss of that tree. So if there was a 30 inch diameter tree, they can put in 15, two inches and call it a day or they really see that threat. We have to look at reality. We might say, well, geez, it only makes sense on this particular lot to put five in. Yeah. But now we need a value for the rest because that 30 inch tree has a different type of value than something less than six inches. Yeah. Well, I see a lot of that happening, but it's good to have it in there. I've seen it. Well, I've seen it. Yeah, I've had to do it. So do we always have a tree warden? So what happens when you decide to stop being the tree warden? Is there always one appointed or I don't even. It's a pointed position in every community in the state is supposed to have one. A lot of times it falls to the town manager for the superintendent of all the works and. Or the select warden or most small town. It's a warden member. So we don't get ourselves in trouble if we say it's going to be inspected by the tree warden and all of a sudden we don't have a tree warden who inspects it. Yeah, somebody, someone's name is going to be in there. Hopefully, well, okay. All right. Well, the good thing about the tree warden's in the state, there's there's a pretty good following. And for my urban community forestry group is doing a great job at running educational seminars. They're putting a lot of stuff more than I've ever seen, which I think is excellent. Because this is going to become more of a needed thing. Communities or even not down the road now. OK, so I think that takes care of that. Dennis. The. Design standards. Can we miss see their failure to maintain? Oh, yeah. That's a big talk about failure to maintain partner language need needed replanting rather than simply issue code violation. Just something for you to think about. Because that code violation. May not be appropriate. Maybe need to be something a little stronger. Do we have a performance fund? I'm seeing that on the bottom of the page. We have that right now. Well, we've never had to use anybody who's had a tree that's died. They have the best if you just ask them to visit their place. But the leverage is there. Yeah, there could be somebody that doesn't sounds good. Because that's pretty common in a lot of communities to have that, you know, you put up some amount of money to make sure that the money is there to take care of the trees that they died. I think so. I mean, that sort of incentivized them to take care of the trees and to get the onset Yes, we can oversee some of the planting that they conform to all those. But how do you say, you know, for the first year or so, you really need to be watering them on a weekly basis. And often they will not do that. They may have a landscaper put it in and say, just put the trees in and they never take care of it rather than having a performance bond by that landscaper that they will take care of at least the first year. And that generally gives them a good start to get going. We saw that over there, you know, that did not happen. So the performance bonds have a sunset that they they last for a year or two and then they're taken off the books, does it work? You only have the trees for the first year. They could chance it to start to rot. OK, you can't. Statutorily, you can't hold that money for very long. It is defined in statute. So I think it's in the two to three year time frame. I would hope you could go that far out, you know, not just the first year because at that point, after three years, if they're doing pretty well, they're probably going to continue to be so. And again, and it behooves them because if we're requiring them to replace this, every if they keep dying on them, unless there's a real issue underground or such. We we need to see it, Robin, to see some terrible looking tree out there that does nothing for anyone. Yeah, all right. Now, I don't know in downtown part of downtown here and do the picture if there couldn't be something a little stronger. Or what would you do? That would be appropriate because it's outside. Because you're right, this is the heart of the village right here. And it's important to have it looking good. I don't think that would be appropriate, you know, yeah. Yeah, I just want to know what stronger it's beyond it's a violation of the toad and the performance bond is over. I'm not really sure what your what you have the ability to do. Is there when you have the violation of the code for something like this, other than an attachment to the existing D, is there any kind of penalty or payment schedule that they would have to do if they don't take action? No, we go to court. The court is awful. It's awful, but and I know it's a small amount of money, for a sense. But how do you enforce this for developers to take care of things? Yeah, that's the problem. I mean, I think, you know, typically, as Robin said, you usually just can work it out with the person, but there will be situations where where you can't. And it just has to come down to whether the trustees do want to go through the full formal bringing them to court. And it's so expensive, but it takes a long time. Yeah, I just, yeah, we'll have to think about that. I don't know that there are any other mechanisms. So instead of this failure to maintain, do we have a spot where we could say that there's a maintenance plan that needs to be done? In other words, the whole hold them to watering it every week, etc, etc, as the holding them to a plan to so it doesn't fail. I recognize that we need something if it does. But is there to be more proactive to have that happen? As opposed to, OK, now it's dead. Yeah, just for us, not what we want. Yeah, got one of those over on Main Street right now. I don't know, Burlington, how did you have anything written into the maintenance plan? They've been along with the installation requirements, such or is that laid out? Well, it's it's challenging because then it comes down to enforcement. And, you know, who is having the time to go around and follow up. So usually it was back to the tree dies. You go back to the developer and hopefully they feel good enough about their property. They'll go home and replace it. But you've got to talk about some matter of communication with them. And then, you know, worst case scenario, that doesn't happen. Then it's up to the village to go back in and replace it. But that'd be the last stretch, the last thing that you want to do. Yeah, you know, we do realize that some of this is is going to be challenging. But I think strengthening this is what we're looking at doing will be a help. You know, working together on the development pieces is good to get us involved as well. And it is, you know, the landscaping is always the last thing in a project. We've got to get this done. And it often gets the least amount of care in terms of the in the installation process. And the standards is getting things in place that help. Yeah. So we're looking under D5 to add a new letter way down in the end called L. And that would be the best that comes in may require additional design to enhance and sustain tree growth, such as the use of civil cells, engineered soils for expansion of the proposed planting area. It's not really set in here, but it would be something that we might be looking for. For example, some of this development rate in the heart where there is no green space to work with. Things are getting planted in the concrete and tree grades and et cetera. I don't think it's set anywhere, so I think it should go in. And I think maybe that's what you guys are talking about. Greg Douglas talked to me about maybe the village could take out a percentage of construction that should be spent on landscaping. He thinks there may be another mechanism to get landscaping looking for without saying half a million dollar project and you pay 1% of the project towards landscaping. I'm not sure myself how to do that, but if you've got a number, then you can say you need this much. Well, yeah, I think there are slightly two different things there, but I like the fact that there's at least some way to have the village propose a target number. And I think it's not all as vegetation, the landscaping can be other street amenities than other features of a design. You know, it's not just a tree, it can be hard escaping as well. So I'm comfortable leaving that in because I think it promotes somebody thinking about an overall strategy and look and how do you create a public space or what's the design of that non-building area? And so I like that. I think what we're talking about here is more there might be a case where just putting a tree in a typical, you know, follow the standards, planting style won't work. It's just there isn't enough there. And I think that's what you're after here. That's what we're asking. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I think in an ideal world, if we had a complete master plan of what the downtown looked like, these are what developers would have to follow in terms of the streetscape. And maybe you don't need that, that language in there about those 500,000 or 250, whatever. But I think that's really hard to accomplish. This city of Burlington got into that before I left with their Great Streets project and initiative, which they started on St. Paul Street from Maple up the Main Street. And that was just the beginning. Now they're looking at Main Street, but that takes in all the amenities, landscaping, stormwater, the street design, the bump house, the utilities and where they're placed and all of that. So I don't know if we are going to get into that here in the village about Junction or not, but I'm saying that communities are starting to look that way. Complete Streets is another one that you guys know the Complete Street thing. Yeah, yeah. Which gets into that. I just want to say something about Robin, you brought a hand for this in finance. D, under landscaping, the very first part, it talks about percentages and dollar values. Is that what you were referring to? So is it set correctly here or do you think it needs to be altered? Yeah, you know, when you look at what's available for landscaping, somebody could put in, use all this money for hard skipping, benches, trash cans. You don't have any self landscaping. So yeah, I guess it does need to be re-workable to make sure that the landscape soft day gets in there. Yeah. Moving on. It's actually a lot of good examples in the Green Street guide on ways to plant things that aren't typical. Right. Oh yeah. To make sure you got enough root growth and water supply and all that. So yeah, I guess that's where knowledge of the particular soils and given development and seeing what they're proposing to do. You know, if they're going to have a tree every 20 feet down the sidewalk and they're just planning on leaving out a chunk of sidewalk and throwing a tree in there, we're all going to look at them and go, you need to do a little more there, you know, throw them a copy of that book and then you'll be pulling it out. Yeah. Now sustainability, which you really want the landscape and the community, if you can, you know, but there's you've got to give the plants what they need to survive and understanding that. Yeah, I think we can work this out. So, seven, one small word, if you will, from an A to Shell, getting the tree warden and tree advisor board more involved or involved in your, and the both development plans. That's right. Contradictory, the first law says must be reviewed. That's a municipally owned land. So the second half of this is, well, I think what we're trying to say is we want to expand the purview of the tree advisory committee to include more than just the village owned land. And so we can rework the whole paragraph here. Because I think in the first sentence, you just review it. You decide because it's municipally owned land. Yeah. I have a speech if you don't just review the speech. Right. Yeah. Must be confirmed or must be approved. By the village, a passive junction tree advisory committee. I think the proof instead of review would work. It's a little bit of a, they're still an advisory committee though. And so I feel that changes, they don't have any authority to do anything other than advise us on what to do. Yeah. So, without monkeying with that arrangement, I think it's fine to say they're reviewing it and they'll give us all the comments we need. Probably. Yeah, that's all we're asking the next one is. 8. And this is where it shall be placed on selecting species native to Vermont and the Champlain Valley. Native is good. A lot of the trees that we use, you can relate them to, they are native, but I think you. Maybe I just wanted to change it by heart. Because a lot of times a lot of our plants are native to. Europe, but not, not a lot of them. And you can say. I thought we had an emphasis. I thought we had indigenous species. No. So that, that that's up for debate or maybe how do we change that for or can we just. Leave it alone. And so the suggestion would be. Just really swap switch that word would still be. To Vermont and the Champlain Valley. Yeah, right. Because that's where. We come in to review the landscape. Actually. 80 plus percent of it is. Maybe not native to Vermont, but native to the northeast. Or central. North central. But hardly enough to grow in our environment. Which is key. And that just opens up a wider palette of. Right. So it's so diverse. Yes. So then we should make sure that all the trees that we listed. So we list our hardiness zone. Are we. Six or something. Or five, five. Getting to six. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to teach you some. So we had thought about the next page and where you list all of these, these shrubs and trees. A lot of them. A lot of them are native. And some can be used. In the urban landscape. Some you wouldn't see us in the urban landscape. So we thought that if you took that out and just reference. The state of Vermont's. Three in the landscape. Planting requirements. Vermont tree selection guide. From the urban forestry. And I can tell you again, because I sit on the. Vermont Urban Community Forestry Council. And I can tell you that the guide is up. We've got a review committee. Working on it again. To update it because there's been input from. Vermont. Fish and wildlife. There's some species that they see in here that. They're questioning why are they here. And some stuff that's not in there that should be. And this, this also goes. I'm thinking back to stormwater. Because the list of stormwater plants are going to be different. In the sense than some of this, because you're going to need. Some of them that can. Some grass that they can grow in the bottom of the tension. And then I'll survive when there's no water in it at all. So. I think the state has another list, which I. I don't know. Right now. We get that list. Get that in here under stormwater. Okay. Another reason I think that it's good to. Stormwater requirements and landscaping in that section. And keep the street and landscape. Building properties. Stuff here. If that makes sense. Yeah. So Chelsea's comment was definitely in the line of. If we're going to have landscaping. If possible, can we have them. And really trying to. You know, get both things accomplished, especially with a new plan. Yeah. My only. Thought there is choosing some of those. Minimal stormwater controls. You look at how we try and view our street. From the street to that. We don't want to do. A rain garden. In the front of the building. In downtown here. I think because unfortunately. They often become pretty unsightly. It's always a maintenance issue with them. And I think it's something that lends itself maybe to the backside or whatever, not necessarily. If we're trying to have this. I think that I tried proposed in Burlington. We were working with stormwater there was. And we started way back with. Stormwater and on site streets and making. Areas and plantings was. It's great, but you need to have a maintenance plan with it. And stay up with it. And if you go to that great street. I was talking about on St. Paul street. And look at the amount of. There's this. It's like in the street. Stormwater. Plantings right there. And. They take a lot here. Because they need to be weeded, maintained. It's like I have a burning garden in the sense. Until it gets to a certain point. When it will self manage. Yeah, I don't know how much of that we'll get into in the future. But it's good to have it in. So the green street guide references the Vermont tree selection guide, which is your first recommendation there. And then it lists a couple more. All specific for Vermont. That all sounds fine. Those could be added in. The public line is with the landscaping is it's proposed public or private. If it's run by. The group. To make for comments. I think you're going to be. Doing well with that. Okay. Last week. The. G. Looks like there's a faster too, right? Yeah, we covered that because we talked about taking out. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I guess that's it. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for the opportunity to appreciate that. I think it's great moving in the right direction with the whole. One little section. Yeah. What are we nine months and counting? It's been a while. It's a rule. Yeah. It really is. If needed. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that. If you do require our input. You know, it could be done in a. A timely manner that, you know, will not. Impact schedules and such, you know, I think. Yeah, I think we have a little. Another draft of this. Yeah. We're, we're working our way through the chapters and we're not. There yet, but we'll get there and then there'll be another draft. Okay. People will look at. Yeah. Right. But we appreciate your great service over the years and keep going. We're up to 250 or so trees. We've planted around the village. Maybe we've lost too. Yeah. Yeah. Without Lawrence fall. No. Yeah. I think my dog can tell you where they all are. Yeah. Behind that dog now. You haven't been down Mansfield Avenue. Yeah. Beautiful trees right there. Yeah. All about them. I planted seven more on Monday. Oh, wow. From the branch out early. This is from the nursery now that we're actually growing the trees in. So we're able to save the. We're growing them digging them and planting them now. How about that? So. Awesome. Are you printing them too? Yeah. Will be. Yeah. Oh yeah, we have. We do work days in summer. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Any questions that should ask or. No, I thought it was breaking. Good. Thanks a lot. Thank you. Thank you. So there's something I'd like to bring up. Just. Just ease. Would like us to put on the agenda when it's appropriate. Discussion by cannabis overlay districts and buffer zones. I'm just. Especially in the village center district. And should get in buffer zone. You know, Park Creek school and the other school. So on. I'm. 500. Buffer zone. That's. That's control course. I put in the regulations which are still changing. Still developing. But. They would really like us to. Take a look at what. If a boat in the village was for retail cannabis. What the landscape would look like, you know, if we've got. Overly districts for roots to school. We've got the buffer zone from school. Not actually even spaces. Where the spaces likely to be. I had a quick look the other day. Just to build center district. And the reason it might have been. Is up past them. Just pat down street. And there's no retail commercials. Residentially get that point of parking. Dentist and office or something. So. It'll be interesting. And. I did speak. And you guys listen to the select board meeting last Monday. I did call the attorney for the state cannabis control board. He went on his way to say that he couldn't give us advice. And basically. The state cannabis control board will decide. What gets approved and not. Looking at how these have really got. Two choices. They often. And then. Any control of retail cannabis would be. By zoning. Or nuisance regulations. Nothing. And you don't have to often right away. I'm just a sunset. If you often. And you decided not working through your account. Thing is. Anything. That was any retail cannabis operations created. While you were in a community. Would be grand father. Okay. So this zone. I know that for tobacco and some other things. There is a zone that says it can be. It has to be beyond a certain distance from school. So we have. Numerous schools. In the village. Especially with the Fleming. And some street being. Just literally up the hill here from here. That depending on what that district. It would exclude. The downtown. Area. Because. Literally we're talking. I don't even think we're football field away. From some street. From here. So. I'm not sure what that exclusion would do. Measuring it from Fleming. To the. Shopping center down on Pearl Street. Is it 500 feet? Not that far. So. Did you draw a plan? This is all graphic. Melanie had these lovely blue circles. Yeah. Park Street school wasn't in it. So I did it quick. My head. Yeah. Didn't leave too much. Well, that's kind of what I was getting at it, but it's not. The school building free school buildings. Really do impact the downtown. And. Pearl Street commercial area. Yes. Everything is downtown. Or. Yeah. And we. You know, online. I've been through. Yeah. No vote. No vote. No vote. Yeah. And we addressed this. A couple meetings ago. Regina gave us some information on act. 164. The opting in part. And then there was, the opting in part. And then there was a audience member who gave us some commentary maybe a month ago. I think that was Mariah, wasn't it? Mariah? Was she here? Somebody would hear. Irremotely. Or remotely, just basically trying to tell us to pay attention and think about how to make sure everybody's safe. So I don't, I'm not, I want to see this graphic version of how the statutory requirement, if it's 500 feet, how that really lays out from the school property. And then decide if we have, well, I got to wait till we opt in and then we figure out whether we need to do that. I read somewhere that we have to vote at some thing. So at this point in time, the only beginning meeting, especially award meeting, but the thing is, I think, I think I mentioned this the last time. Why just think about Canvas? Why don't you think about anything that we want to offer for schools or, you know, a walk to school right? And so it should be anything that gives in those categories. And I'll just do it for one thing. So let's take a look at that. No, I think you can do it for beer and wine now because they don't have the same regulatory requirement. One other thing that I have, I'm Muscovite, my mother, I'm leaving next Monday. I'm not coming back until the 29th of November. And Terry suggested that we have no meeting the first Thursday in December. And the third Thursday in December, there's a small application coming through the Maple Street. And we can have a review of one application and also do a lab development project. You want to know your feedback. Okay, so we're talking about nothing until the third week in December? Third Thursday. And I think that's fine, but I would like to see, I think you and Steve and I ought to get together and put a agenda that just briefly, you know, it says, okay, these are available meetings. These are what we think the topics are going to be, and we've basically been reserving the first meeting of every month to do land development code stuff. But I don't have a good sense of when we're finished with all the material that Regina is proposing. And then we have some significant deliberation time because we haven't really gotten through. I looked for your list and I was trying to find your list of all the things that we wanted to, we wanted to talk about. Yeah, I've looked at Diane's list a number of times. And a lot of it is research-based stuff that on the housing front that is in the housing bank. Yes, it is. But I can look at it again, but I can send it around so folks can remember what's on it. But it's not a lot of change, change, change, change. Yeah, no, my point is I think we could put a little structure to upcoming meetings at least out six months, but I'd like to see when we think we're going to have a rough full draft of the next round of our best intentions and then a review period for that and then when we think we're signing off on it and sending it along. We don't have to be perfectly exact, but just okay. Regina should be part of that too. Yeah, so here's the target and here are the absolute have to and maybe it's not a big deal if we miss a meeting or two is my point. So, okay. And we know you've got holidays coming up. You got all kinds of reasons why Thursday nights are going to be busy. So let's let's see if we can just pull that together and maybe you've already got three quarters of it done. Sounds good. So, I'm sorry, we're talking about meeting next December 16. Yes. Yeah, so I can definitely on that agenda. We can have the sign, the content stuff for the sign. And overall schedule. Yeah. And I think I can probably start getting all these edits that we've talked about so far. Addressed in the various chapters. Yeah. There's some things that we've been asked to consider like extending or modifying districts. So we should go through those deliberations and, you know, like we're doing something or not doing something. Trump roads. That too, right? So there's some key things that we've decided we either want to do or probably do and so we should just get, get to a point where we've answered those so that our next rough draft can be or our next draft can be pretty close to what we're the general direction that we're thinking. No, yeah, that's good job. So yeah, I am unaware of other edits, other zoning district edits that you guys have been asked to look at other than the extending like we've already done in the past. We had a proposal from a lady on Main Street. We're not going to do that. I'd like to just formalize that question and answer. You know, we had similar requests for the previous, previous rewrites of the LDC. So it's just appropriate. We follow the same process. And you can get me all of these requests. Well, we really have that one. Yeah, it's just wasn't too many. But they pursue the previous one and eliminate it because of its location. So this one we should probably do the same process of value. And we are evaluating all the trunk roads anyway. So for other reasons, so we can. It's worth a wider view, maybe of all the trunk questions and then we'll just decide we're good or not good with all the issues at the same time. Boom. Okay. Happy days. Excellent. Are there any other items on the LDC right at the moment? Can I? Not the LDC. I think the only part was that you and I, I know that you and I both had questions about other sections, but that can wait. Okay. Yeah, so how do you want to do those? Do you want to wait? Because so far, we've looked at chapters that have edits. That's most of the chapters, but not every single one of them. What we've looked at storm order suggestions and we haven't discussed the edits that the planning commissioners may have. Yeah. Because we, we did with staff and, and other staff members edits and did not go through those in those chapters. Yeah. So that's what I mean. How and when do you want to do that? Do you want to just like take chapters one through four one night and go through that and like, how, what's the best way? Well, this is what may be on this whole scheduling thing. We can identify, you know, okay, we're going to try and you, you planning commissioners have these questions to answer and these chapters to review. Here's a chunk for this meeting for this meeting for this meeting, you know, like outstanding items because, you know, stormwater and things that the state's telling us we have to do anyway. We've sort of been briefed on those things and I don't see us, you know, what are we going to object? You know, we're going to do anything though. But, but like the rewrite of the whole PUD section and what are we trying to get out of that? That one needs some time. Yes. And, and so I want to see those things coming up like, hey, you haven't decided on PUD. You haven't decided on the trunk road. You haven't decided on, you know, whatever other items we have outstanding there and, and, and we can start working our way through that list. Okay. Yeah. So we definitely need to have this smaller meeting because I am unaware of what those other things even are. So I'm just leaving it open and in case there are any, I'm not sure that we have a long list. I just want to be open to, you know, any remaining items. Okay. Happy days. Yeah. So LDC comments going once. Anybody on the phone have anything there? Bill. Patrick. Patrick. No. All right. So there was a big vote earlier this week. Are there any updates for that sort of effect us at the moment that we know about, or do we, we don't have any information. We're already doing our own thing and what we keep doing our own thing. Yeah. Okay. No matter what happens. All right. I hear that you're going to rise with laws for all the work she needs. I mean, it's been for the election day. Thank you. Yeah. So I'm sure that the staff will appreciate being here. We're going to get some President Blanford. Yeah. Just move to say I'm here all week. I'm here there for 16 to hours. Thanks. Um, we should get Warren and Nick, the plant the tree and, uh, on all of your behalf, everybody. Warren and Nick, we're playing the tree for the cityhood thing. That's what I mean. Yeah. But typically all the people that worked so hard on. Definitely have to be, yeah. Good. So what's what's the other planning commission thing here on the agenda? That's the Comprehensive Economic Development Strategy Project. You all asked about that. I guess we have to get the item five. All right. So I could talk through this very quickly. I do have about eight slides, so I will just run through these. And by the way, I attended the economic Vermont economic development conference today down downtown Brompton and saw Regina there. So I know she's all up to date and see there too as well. So there wasn't a whole lot on what we normally hear about housing and, you know, those kind of development things, but there was a lot of information about. Sort of the economic forecast jobs and availability of material and labor to construct seemed more the focus on what was happening today. Normally we get a little bit more on, you know, some of the other key planning topics, but we didn't get that this year. Well, it's the violence of building is become wider, see more expensive. The supply chain issues are significant and continue to slow down construction and create more expensive projects. It's physically hard to get material and labor. Right. Yeah. Think metal, forget wood for the moment. Wood's actually doing better than they say. But, you know, they fluctuate depending on, you know, who's buying globally. We're in this for a while long. Yeah. And odd things like paint and foam. So insulation. Apparently the storms in Texas affected a lot of the fabrication plants. That, you know, do this kind of thing. So. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So on that happy note. Happy note. Chittenden County Regional Planning Commission is working on our said comprehensive economic development strategy. In Chittenden County, this will probably be our 4th or 5th version of this plan. It happens every 5 years. We're doing it a little bit differently this time around though. But first, just what the said is basically it's a document that it's not a required document, but if we want to get any federal economic development administration funds into the region, we need to have said in place. And it's pretty strategy action plan focused kind of document. And we have also included a specific project list in it as well. So in the past, the project list has included lots of municipal infrastructure type projects, but we can also we're hoping to be a little bit more. Programmatic based to in terms of if there are particular workforce training kinds of projects or programs that should happen. Those kinds of things as well. Generally speaking. Economic Development Administration funds things that are either helpful in retaining jobs or even better growing jobs. Rough parameters. So the, we are doing it differently because we're doing it with these other 3 regions, Addison County, Rutland County and central Vermont, which is a couple of counties. And the reason why we're doing it this way is because. These other counties have not had a said, or at least they don't have a recent one in place. And so it's helpful both at the state level and the economic development administration level for everybody to be covered with a said, but also collectively we could then become another acronym. Economic Development District. And that designation gets you more. Committed not the right word, but more regular planning funds into the region. What happened to Franklin and oil counties and Grand Isle County? Right, so we would naturally sort of. Partner up with them, right? But Northwest is already in an economic development district with Northeast Kingdom. So just the whole northern part of the state. So, okay, so the regional planning commissions from all those regions are helping to write this and do this work as well as the RBCs. That's greater Burlington Industrial Corporation here in Chittenden County. And then also Agency of Commerce and Community Development is helping as well, which is great because they're really thinking through quite a bit on. COVID impacts and, you know, nobody's got any black balls, but what that might look like down the road. So, at this stage of the game, we are in the outreach and engagement. We're just getting around to talking to as many folks as we can to let you know that we're doing this plan. We are also really looking at a lot of existing reports and studies because there's a ton of it at the state level and also more specifically in our various regions. In the focus group category, we are definitely trying to figure out how to have very specific BIPOC engagement in this plan. And really hopeful that that will be sort of an overarching component, but definitely trying to figure out how to do how to help BIPOC entrepreneurs and folks gain access to capital and all that kind of stuff. So, we will have a draft of the plan in the spring and so we'll sort of circle back around when that happens and let everybody know that there's a draft out there to review. With this unlikely partnership, we will likely have kind of a front facing SEDS and then I imagine we will have a sort of appendix for each county that will be a little bit more specific. And for Chittenden County, we will incorporate this into the next ECOS plan update, which is our regional plan, transportation plan, and currently where the SEDS lives now. So, we'll just sort of incorporate this so it'll probably still be all branded in the same way from Chittenden County. So, according to the timeline, we are in the outreach engagement piece right now or possibly the draft SEDS? Yes, that's a lie. Definitely more in the 2022 category than 2021. So, we have had a business survey out for quite a while. The regional development corporations have been really great at getting the word out on that. So, we've got a lot of input coming in from that, which is great. And this is basically the input we're just asking for from folks right now. Just trying to get a sense from you can think about it from Chittenden County region or this read this interesting for region area. In terms of assets that we have going on now opportunities and things that we can sort of improve and then priority projects. So, we can I'll take any feedback you have right now or folks can email me whatever you want. We're still we've got in the process right now. So, it's not any kind of critical deadline or timeframe to year back on this. And I will say we've got all the basics down and understood from lots of conversations already housing workforce supply chain problems. All of those kind of bigger, bigger issues we we are aware of. How does our rail traffic and train stations? Yeah, but take my second look at how to get to Boston's message junction takes less than any other. Yeah, so sitting here was one of the best locations for infrastructure, you know, available in the state. Any of the rail systems, but certainly the ones in that described region and certainly the one sitting 200 feet away. We should really increase its significance as a multimodal station, which it already is. I believe it's the only multimodal station that's inside a designated center and it doesn't need to be very different. I mean, my failure wish that had, you know, all the stuff. We should really embrace having it so. What about the upgraded they just didn't know where they know how that same. I mean, yeah, I don't know if the buses there, but they definitely have a rail station in Middlebury. They read it down the side of the road. They didn't transition the bus station and different. Okay. And now I think it pops into my head now that global foundry zone. They're much more open to letting economic development under their side. IBM were very protective of it. But global foundry seem at least open to discussing. There's a lot of space not being used to them. They're also been discussing having the road from Williston into global fondries. You have public road that was kept a year ago. And once they were told that the engineers from the state would take a look at the bridge. You couldn't take certain traffic. Certainly take cars and looking to see if there's a way to make that happen. That was quite a while ago. And I don't know if it died during the discussion or only part of the initial idea. Well, that that's significant and that it would, in my opinion, it has the possibility of relieving a certain amount of not significant traffic from already. Poor poor. What do they call it the service quality or something that you know the two way and not only that, you know, with that. The one 17. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but that would also open that. Potentially that area down in the air to. More. More traffic could be commercial or otherwise into that area that we just. Right into coming up. So as opposed to using the powerhouse fridge. Or for that matter, getting up into. Under River Road itself. I mean, it's definitely to lend itself. It might actually open that they were supposed to have a. An industrial park there on. On Maple Street, which seems to have kind of gone by the wayside. Yeah. It's still there. There's still a few other things have come and gone from initial discussions on stuff. Didn't go too far. If we go back to the train for a while. I've been sent out a few emails, but. The Montreal, the Boston train. The two on track trains that come into Vermont, Vermont has on track for a minute. They're proposed at the moment and I can understand it because they're using trapped. It's already a passenger real standard. And let's say the trains come from Montreal and it stops next extension. Then it goes down to Springfield, Massachusetts. You've got to get off that train, get on another train. Which I understand is it goes west and it goes south and it goes east. Now. An idea of a world you arrive in the trains waiting for you five minute changeable. But. To take seven and a half hours. To get from Essex Jackson to Boston. When you can do it on a good day and three and a half. My car. It doesn't seem like we're setting ourselves up for success. And if you think about it. It doesn't affect anybody from Montreal, getting up at Waterbury to go skiing. You're in Boston. And you're looking at two trains to get to Waterbury. They could take five hours. When you can do that in two and a half of three. You're probably not going to take the train. No, and the only reason I've ever. You know, that you ever go through Springfield is if you're going to Hartford and New York. You don't go to Springfield ever if you're going to Boston. No, yeah. And I said, like I said, it's less expensive to set it up that way. In the early stages. But there's about 20, I can't remember, 20, 23 miles of track in New Hampshire. New Hampshire bought the right of way for it. It was owned by Pan Am Rail. After New Hampshire bought it, Pan Am Rail took all the track up. So there is a trail through that. And people said, maybe you can't have a trail along the main line. We have a short distance. We've a trail along the main line from North Street to Central Street. So we know we can do that. If that was reinstated and it costs a lot of money to spend 120 million to get from Burlington to New York and seven and a half hours. So if you could spend a hundred million to get from Montreal to Boston and five and a half hours, five hours value for money. And I'm pretty sure that with those two magnets that I ran, it might be a train Ryan that Vermont doesn't have to pay. I'm trying to come here for. So, you know, I can't, I can't be just Robin's voice to wilderness. Other people need to be talking about it. Yeah. You know, I've said my other thing, you know, it's JFK said, we don't do it because it's easy to do it because it's hard. It was early called more upfront. But both the law last on the line and you're setting up the chance for success rather than putting something to say we have it. I mean, I know we do have a train on or sorry to play in Boston, but it holds about people and you can get it. You can get a train in New York. You can get a plane in New York. You can drive in New York. But the biggest city in New England. Yeah. If we're talking about economic development, we're talking about getting people from a huge conservation. The Waterbury comfort for New Hampshire. We're talking about, you know, we're talking about, you know, a lot of people are up here in the month at all. Four million dollars a mile. To put a track in. Although you'd have to, you'd have to look at that to see if that's areas we already have the right of way, secure, et cetera. It's really flat. You're actually just putting in what was taken out, I suppose to, you know, I'm sure I think you don't have to start pretty sure it has to start at the congressional level. You know, our guys will have to help. There's a lot there, but I think it takes a commitment from all kinds of levels of government sources that rail traffic is something that we're interested in restoring. You got to get that. Let's do it right. Well, it sounds like it's an effort to just it's not just as a junction should be pushing. It sounds like water. And all the other pounds along the way should be all pulling to get this because quite frankly, the traffic is coming from Boston, but the traffic is coming from Montreal. It could be filtering both ways. Yeah, I mean, it wouldn't really affect Canadian traffic coming to Vermont, but in fact, Boston traffic comes to Vermont. The Canadian traffic going in for a thing. Well, Canadian traffic going to Boston. No, it's all in the years or it's to, you know, I don't know what you get off and wherever and go see. I mean, it's. Yeah, you know, people have taxis buses, boobers, you're in the car. There's a lot of stuff involved hotels and so on restaurants, cafes, but I don't know. All the Internet stuff just doesn't make any sense. Yeah. Yeah. So in general, I think we're all still in favor of continuing to support and improve our rail station locally and our rail traffic performance on a statewide level, including connections to the key major cities in our region. You know, so Boston, you know, we can already get the Springfield so we know that work. So if there's a reason to do that and you can keep going to Harvard and New York City from here, instead of going over to Rutland and then over to Schenectady and then, you know, down or wherever that goes. Yeah, I think that train actually help rent more than it does. Yeah. You know, if I could actually take a train on the way to New York City without driving to Rutland to get on, I don't know. You know what I'm saying. Well, you know, the irony is if we have trained into three and a half hours, ballpark numbers, you have missed extension. Boston. Yeah. It's like brilliant. It's three hours from Boston to New York. It's still faster than going the other route cost $140 million to put in. Yeah. I'll say that when we've taken the train to New York City, we drive to Rensselaer. I take the plan in 50 minutes. We drive to, you know, is it Rensselaer? Troy. Troy. Yeah. We drive to Troy. I drive to Troy. The ninth little station jump right on the train near Penn Station in, what, a couple hours? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the train near Penn Station and what, a couple hours? But it's, you know, it's not exactly what you're thinking. If you're trying to promote rail traffic, it's a little more promote tourism and economic development for all times along the track. Yeah. Around the internet. And it's weren't on the internet. It's more pollution with trucks, more cars, more buses. There's a lot of moving parts. Yeah. All right. So how did any of this fit into your questions to us, Regina? I think there are opportunities. And they're awesome. I will add them. Okay. You're awesome. Okay. Great. Thank you. It's not necessarily a less extensive thing, but I think the data aircraft situation is a regional county things. Absolutely. I start to take off anytime and become a dominant player on that type of thing. What do you do if you're doing? I think what I've heard is all of the people who are in delivery network, but mostly, I mean, especially, I think it's got a healthcare angle, delivering, you know, organs and other sensitive things, you know, that could be a game changer. But of course, all the other industries that are delivering packages and so forth, they're looking at it, waiting for it to really become, it's not a passenger thing like this. My understanding is they're not aiming the service that passenger flights yet, but you know, there's such a huge market for the rest of the things that, you know, we're seeing a tremendous potential there. Yeah, I think the size of the technology will reduce the size of the aircraft or dictate it. I mean, it's like the first test, it was the size it was because of the batteries that needed to move it. It didn't need to be that size. It was solar panels and everything else and they get smaller than the things that they're operating in smaller places. Amazing. All right. Anything else that we're... Perfect, so it's good meeting you. All right. Good. Thank you. Good to turn. So moved. And... Second? Second. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. They did not... Thank you gentlemen. It's already week and you're there filming. Thank you.