 Thank you for joining my channel. This is a special event for Coco vid. So hello everyone out there I am with Sarah Walsh who some of you may know as Sarah Norland Park on Facebook or her Persona on Instagram founding dot mother With her fantastic events there. So we are so excited to be here because we were going to talk about this whole idea of Making replicas of museum favorites things we fall in love with and these is we were going to do this at costume college And we were so excited and then absolutely gutted when costume college was canceled due to COVID-19 and all of the lockdown and everything and we've been sitting at home for months and now We get to connect virtually with you in a way that Kind of brings our story to you in a way that you can share your stories with us Hopefully we did try to do this live on Friday and anyone who came along to that Witnessed the spectacular audio failure and Nearly got to see me cry But here we are we have stepped back rethought and revamped and here we are As good as life hopefully we are going to do this as a premiere so that you can chat with us in real time and we can actually spot your questions And hopefully you know engage with you there so um Sarah hi. I'm good to see it and I think we're just gonna kick off and just tell a little bit about ourselves So if you'd like to go ahead and tell us sort of who you are and what you do and yeah Sure. I'm Sarah. I am a school librarian librarianship is sort of my location But sewing has been a hobby a pursuit a Love since I was about 10 years old my mom taught me to sew on a machine quite similar to that one Cool in the picture. Yeah, cool. There it is. There it is. It's a featherweight Yes, it's a singer featherweight. It was it it was my grandmother's and I I love that machine and But I was mostly sewing modern Clothing costumes things like that. It wasn't until 2016 that I really got into historical costuming particularly for the persona of Abigail Adams, which is my historical interpretation pursuit and the hand sewing techniques the historical dressmaking techniques. I'm still very much learning and becoming more proficient in those and Yeah, it's sort of blossomed into a whole whole other Whole other focus in my life. Well, Abigail's wardrobe as it grows is amazing. Absolutely beautiful Um, she's got her own wardrobe You work on I am working on it. Yes There's there's a couple of sort of key pieces that I've already made and I'm you know adding trims and adding accessories and You know learning as I go And it's been it's been quite the journey Okay, great now I'll just give you a little spoiler alert everyone That this fantastic dress right behind Sarah, which is actually the topic of you know her Her contribution really um to this um presentation, but that's not one of Abigail's Abigail doesn't wear that dress Not it's it's more of a sort of fancy Over-the-top. Yeah She probably would not have Do you want us to give it give us a quick word about your new venture that Blossomed daring lockdown Yes, thank you for bringing that up. So, um, when schools closed and There were teachers across the country scrambling for virtual learning Content that they needed to deliver um as an as an interpreter as a historical reenactor an interpreter I thought it would be a great way to kind of bridge my two careers my two vocations if you will and start offering live interpretive content That could be interactive that could be dynamic that could be engaging and I started just kind of asking my friends who do you know interpreting and reenacting Would you like to kind of get in on this and a couple people said yes, please I would love to you know, where can we do it? How can we do it? And I reached out to a number of facebook groups offering this as sort of a an answer to Lockdown and because events were being canceled museums were being closed. There was no There was no outlet for the interpretive interactive Reaching out to the public So a lot of people were very enthusiastic about the idea and it wasn't until I reached out to a A unit that happened to be I think in in france A gal named poppy mercier who's a reenactor world war two whack interpreter Helped me launch living history live, which is a facebook page that hosts three or more live interactive q&a presentation type Talks every week It's fantastic It's fantastic. What are you just completely blew up And it's all periods it's I think it's pretty even split between men and women and All inclusive It's it's people all walks of life interpreting people from history Kind of forgotten voices people with a lot of you know, ordinary everyday people that most of us have never heard about never Yeah, never and hearing their experiences and some of some of the first person Interpretation Yes, is so immersive and so powerful. Um, anyway, I just yeah, so a little Yeah, so this is your little promotional bit for live And with living history live on I Yeah, so that's something that will be um Reference in the video description so people can go check that out because it's really exciting and really cool, so Today we are actually talking about our historical sewing projects. Um, where We have some dream idea. I mean, I I think that is a common theme. It keeps popping up all through koko vid is Um dream gowns worth gowns, you know, it's not just kathy hay and her peacock dress But it's her panel the other well her her um talk with uh, bernadette on friday on bernadette's channel Which by the way is only up for a week So if you want to catch that you need to do it this week before next weekend But kathy, you know They were talking about everyone's got a favorite word gown and they were actually encouraging people to look through all of these examples and It's like You know, it's all like each one numbered I picked number six or you know, it was amazing. Um, and such variety over all the decades that house of war Made it's incredible gown. I think whatever your era what, you know, if you see some image, whether it's artwork or Engravings that go back much older before a lot of portraiture This we all have some some some little piece of inspiration What we're talking about today kind of focuses on extents surviving original garments from the period that We have you know that particularly attracts us um, so we're not talking about taking inspiration from art because that involves a lot of interpretive processes Without reference without much reference to external sources that you can go look at it really is another another um Topic and I believe someone here There is a Coco vid talk about that and I'm trying to remember who seems that I Who's doing I will I'll try to circle bell was it There's that project the two ladies who sent each other Yes pictures to to interpret but there is also And we will edit this down so that you don't have my fine digging for it But somebody because I think I highlighted it to try to go back and catch it Somebody somebody Yesterday was it something in the middle of the night that I couldn't make I will try to find that there's somebody We can link us to Yeah, what are the uh, basically it's there in coca vid. I will put here somewhere What it is and you can find it afterwards because at the moment I don't remember what it's called. Anyway, right Okay, so each of us with We are in the same rooms in our homes with the result of our projects But as it happens because sarah and I met through a shared interest in 18th century costuming and happened to be doing replicas of 18th century gowns, but specifically 17 1785 yes both go amazing Yeah, there's a coincidence for you um, but The things that we our our experiences with our projects were so different from each other that we were very fascinated with what each other had done and then we realized, you know, this is something about basic decision-making and certain approaches different approaches to doing something like this that It's um, it's basically so many permutations. There's so many different ways and all of them can be successful I think that's what gave Worth this idea of joint joining together to give a talk like this is the idea that From the really basic principles that the lessons we learned in some cases the hard way That we could encourage you out there everyone else either if there's something that's really just Tugging at your heart and you really really want to even go with this Even no matter what your skill level because you'll get there one day and at some point you just dive in But we thought we'll just talk about With the key some of the key aspects that we lessons that we learned So that you can go away and we think about, you know, what can you do to make your dream happen? What what how can it be real so Sarah The first thing that I want to say too is it took it took Working myself up to even contact you Would you be willing to have me kind of You know Combine our two stories about these gowns into This present into the costume college presentation into this presentation because yours was very high profile It was it was and that was that was something I didn't really quite appreciate I mean, I knew I had some remarkable people on board that you know people that Are you know in in the costume and communities? They are influencers and very well known. I knew that But I didn't really appreciate the impact that would have on the Not the success of the project because to be honest all of us could have got together and made this Right what I didn't what I didn't appreciate was the impact afterwards, you know the the The interest that there was and then the several months later when the pattern came out and then many documentary came out Just how much interest that that that would already be tapped into but that would generate further and that's been Incredibly it just it's it's humbling and gratifying and just you know and but also it's um It's kind of a confirming sort of process. You realize, you know, this was this this dress means, you know The object of my project just means a lot to a lot of people and has a universal appeal. It seems and your dress is so classic, too But it was it was just a little old me Yeah, just for the sake for the sake of possibly reframing this when I look for the video Just like to say on the back of that that All of this every single step getting started wherever you are in the project and whatever your long tail is You know this the opportunities that you want to pursue after your dress has been made or your garment your sweater That's uh, you know an embroidered suit or whatever it is Every single thing you think of and you think oh, that would be a dream to make it happen It's going to take courage and you will have to psych yourself up and you will have to confront things like Feeling you're a nobody feeling your skills aren't good enough feel like nobody is interested or imposter syndrome And who am I to talk to them and all of those things those barriers are in your head And if that is one message that I think we both can absolutely hand on heart 100 with no qualifications say is The barriers are in your own head The battle is a mental one truth And that yeah, and then all the other things you can think of they're keeping you from doing this with its time money skills connections Access certain resources stuff like that those can all one way or another be overcome or got around but this only you can work on And and and to be honest once you take that first step the rest the ball starts rolling And you and and each each small win each small success or each In a positive response you get when you reach out something just encourages you and eventually Yeah, project kind of takes on a life that's long, but let's start at the beginning Sarah tell me why why this dress for you this dress Was there a purple? It's purple I people who who know me really really well know that purple is a way of life for me um, I I love purple I I just love it and you know, it's it's almost like Zach pinsson levels of I do it because I love purple. I don't care what's on trend. I don't care whether it's in or it's out when you know What was it vibrant orchid was the pantone color of yours like yes, I'm I'm I'm trendy again. Okay I'll say I'm here for it I mean, I do it. I wear purple all the time. My car is purple everything around me It's funny because in my historical sewing. I don't use a lot of purple, but my modern life is completely 100 unabashedly purple and This gorgeous gown was staring up at me from the book fashioning fashion from uh, lakma exhibit Which I think was up I think around like 2011 2012 something like that And it's just this gorgeous vibrant beautiful, you know I can't even it's just a gorgeous gorgeous gown the pictures of it are beautiful and You know, it just it grabbed my attention. Yeah, and back then I never you know, what a thought gosh. I gotta make that it was just I love looking at it I you know, it's beautiful. It's purple. It's you know I mean, it's it's an it's an it's a statement piece, right? Yeah, and it was it was interesting to me to see such vibrancy and such use of that really, you know, very Opulent color and all this fabric and everything in an 18th century gown because at the time My sense of 18th century clothing was very You know, it was rudimentary. It was you know, I thought of you know, dark colored gowns and sort of You know stayed more kind of Colonial simplicity, you know, my my sense of all of this was very very Elementary at the time so I was you know, wow, this is incredible. It is French. So, you know, it's on the it's on the avant-garde of fashion and it's very You know, um It's big, right? It's making a big Um, but anyway, so yes, that was the hook. That was it. And yeah, and you know, and that's Totally okay. If you love a gown because of its intricacy or you love an outfit because of its, you know Um, it's trim or because of you know, it's purple That was it. That was that's your thing that made it your thing You know what? It's not that dissimilar with me and Isabella McTavish Frazier gown. It was I was interested in 18th century and had you know, I thought that I knew part a lot about the general color scheme of clothing and something but this was tartan Red tart not just any tartan, but red tartan and red and tartan It's like deliberately not wearing those things today because I mean That's that's my thing is red tartan and to discover this dress Is the lone survivor is like the it was it was like the more I found out about it having seen it on pinterest And it was literally I was I don't even think I was using the search term wedding dress I don't I don't know. I don't think I was searching 18th century tartan. It was just some Don't remember But it appeared and it was like I kind of looked at it and I think I initially kind of thought was Well, somebody's made a funny copy of something they think is 18th century and then I looked and said oh, that's an actual dress in the Inverness Museum It's real It's I mean and they know who owned it. They know who wore it They know who owns it now It was just like this long unbroken trail and it's like you can't look at that and Have any it just overturned everything on a kind of thought I knew like you said about Purple, you know, you just who thought who knew um So it's kind of that was what grabbed me and then I had an acquaintance through a facebook social the 18th century sign group at the time Who we were chatting about this because she had an interest in the textile and She said well, I live in scotland. Well, how about next time you come up to scotland? We'll go see it And I said I'm getting married in scotland in May next year And she's okay great. Um, so we did and the museum to save them a little bit of You know more convenient for them But they said well, why don't you guys come on the same day that the owner of the dress will be here? And we will just focus on the dress that day Which meant it could come out of its display case and we could touch it And you know carefully and super you know super I mean we go we were very excited that we were very excited But I had no thought at that point of like studying it with you to making it. I was just enthralled with seeing my first extant garment and it was red tartan And I mean between that and and actually then Creating a project that would involve a replica, you know a lot of you know headspace has You know stuff has to happen and you know meanwhile all sorts of things change careers change jobs I mean change jobs moved house got married all these things happening So there was a little bit of a gap before kind of pick up anything and go with it But anyway that brings up that brings up the next point, which is you live in the uk you live Yeah in england and scotland Is a train right away the other end of the country though It is and and and travel here is not as fast per 100 miles covered as it is in the us in the us you can jump in a car And drive across country three and a half thousand miles in three days. I have family members who have done it All of my older brothers and sisters when they were younger at one point or another would jump in a car and do that Here here to travel to Inverness is what 400 miles? Oh, I'd need to look it up I could be way off that could be way off, but it's certainly not three and a half thousand miles. And yet it's a 12 hour journey yeah Which is you know looking at it in that context It's just travel covering covering ground is much slower Whether you're doing it with public transport or by car You don't get on a motorway that has no interchanges no junctions. No on-ramps off-ramps Anything you know anything like that. You just don't get in the car and drive 60 75 miles per hour till you get there things It's just a lot slower here In in that way. So it was the other end of the country. It was a big deal. It was a big deal So for me, yes, this gown the the extent gown at the Los Angeles County Museum of Art Los Angeles is where I grew up um, but when I first sort of got it in my head that I wanted to See it and potentially replicate it By the time I got to that point where I was like I could do this Now how do I do it? um, I was planning to be in LA in February of 2017 Was it 17? Yeah, the timeline I need to I need to refresh my brain, but um I was going to be in LA in February and I thought, you know, maybe that would be a time I was living in Washington state at the time So LA is, you know, a three or four hour plane trip. Um but You know, so I said, oh, maybe I can make an appointment to visit the museum and see the gown in person and you know, two of you of potentially looking at it up close or, you know, whatever they might be willing to do and so I you know, the next the next thing We actually have is what was the first thing you did in order to You know get to see it or get to handle it or get to look at it So I called I called just the main number for the, you know, LA County Museum of Art You know, I'm gonna make a point here. It can start with that with so little information Yeah, you don't have to somehow find know from the beginning the name And dress size of the person you need to speak to it starts with general inquiries. It starts with picking. Yeah. Yeah So I you know, I called the main number that's on the website and you know, some Very nice person at the front desk, you know My my question was a little bit nebulous. It was sort of I'm interested in Seeing a gown that is on the website. It says it's not currently on exhibit. Yeah. Um, is that possible and the you know, after a series of rerouting of the call and you know, I I did finally get to somebody in the textile and um costume department And they were very lovely. They were very nice. They they were delighted to be asked. Um, unfortunately the museum was being completely renovated and a new wing being added and so a bunch of stuff was off-site There was not going to be a You know a way to provide access to the gown Um, things were, you know being moved around. It was it was not It was not a good time and this happens And there are so many museums with significant dress collections in the last few years have You know closed for up to a year at a time for complete renovations and refitting and when that stuff goes off to More remote storage and that means they've got no place to bring it to you to set up a room for you to look at it Yeah, so that was bad luck on time. Yeah, so and I thought well, you know, that's that The person I spoke to was great. You know, they were very apologetic and you know, wish they could have helped more um, and then I hosted to One of the facebook um 18th century groups. I can't remember which one saying oh, well, I tried and And someone commented Maybe you can ask them if they have more pictures Maybe you can ask them if they you know can provide a little more information than what's in the book then What's on the museum website? So I called again um, I got back in touch with the same person And She said you know what? We do actually have one archival photograph Of when you know either the gown was being packed or unpacked or something and someone took a picture of it all laid out because as it had been Mounted for museum display and for the book there were details that you couldn't see Yes, obviously you can't zoom in on the pictures on a book the museum you can only you know The museum website you can only get the views that they'd taken And there were things that I couldn't see and so she sent me The archival photo that she had with a little bit more description So that gave me some ideas about you know, how certain things looked And we continued to correspond a little bit if I had a question about something she was like Oh, I can ask the person who has handled it, you know, so it We were able to strike up a rapport. Yeah Yeah, that's really important And I've had that experience with other gowns other projects. Um, in my case in venice the actual curators. They were The one kind of in charge of that picker collection and then her boss who's the overall curator for all the collections and dressed In her case, um, in genet genet's case, she's not a specialist in dress to textiles or 18th century Um but Carrie who was the caretaker and curator for all of the the dress and and Well, basically it's a jack-of-all anything to do that might have anything to do with the history of Jack-of-it-ism and that it kind of encompasses tartan and this is the only wool tartan gown that they have in their collection. They have I believe it is just one other tartan gown, but it's silk and it's early victorian the velvet all right. It's No, the velvet gown is in another collection. Um, no the The isabel address is on display shows its case with a red tartan silk It's either late 1830s or early 1840. Yes, I know the way it's just I don't know why it doesn't get more attention because it is absolutely beautiful and you see that one and it's got this tiny tiny little waist and that's what people Kind of remark on was that a child you wore that anyway, that's beside the point But the curators were just so helpful I mean this they couldn't help with things like how is this gown actually constructed, you know cut construction Uh, you know anything about stitches or seam placements or how the lining was put in it was not it wasn't It wasn't a situation with their amount of knowledge and what they had Hello, Neve They wouldn't be able to answer your helpful questions in that way, but they were more than happy to arrange appointments So it was kind of a case of once this look like this project was going to take off Then it was yeah actually scheduling and booking flights and I must admit because of travel time And then when it became clear that the actual building of the dress was going to happen in another site Not in Inverness Then the only way to manage this was to fly and so I was flying back and forth that I flew Goodness, I flew up there in January in February and then again in April Before the actual build of the the dress happened in june but they I mean they were so accommodating and It was similar to with the owner because this the original dress is not owned by the museum so any Anything to do with access in ways that might affect the dress like handling Had to be cleared with the owner who again Was really enthusiastic about anyone researching and studying this dress You know her family's dress because they didn't know much about it and none of them so So even the most basic things like asking does it have a waste scene And what stitch was used to attach the skirts to the bodice There wasn't anyone a modern sewage in the family to help with those sorts of things and likewise the curators in the museum So it really it did require Hands on there was one kind of report a two page report that had been written by a previous curator who again her specialty was Not dress history much less cut in construction And she didn't know any of the kind of dress history terms So her descriptions trying to use plain English language to describe the features of the dress are really wacky You're going oh Yeah, anyway, and it's that was that was a few decades ago that was written Because the dress has been with Inverness since the mid 1980s, I think anyway, so yeah, so that was That was some of the issues we've talked about that was kind of on our outline here about main Yeah, and so for me, you know not being able to even see the dress in person not being in an obstacle equipment That yeah, I mean that was sort of my biggest obstacle. So, you know, I turned to Internet searches to see if I could find More pictures of it Closer up pictures of it that that had been, you know made Whether they were on someone's blog or if they were, you know Yeah, and there was there was another there was a series of pictures of a different mounting That actually Yeah, that actually helped me, you know kind of determine um some sort of Not not not necessarily construction, but how the shapes turn in a style and silhouette. Yeah, generally Um, and one kind of reverse engineer on the basis of some yeah, and one picture in particular I'm going to give a shout out to Catherine Karen Craig who yes took a picture when she did see it in LA that showed Where the where the you know the museums pictures the book pictures didn't show the back scenes In the shoulders But her picture did oh amazing Yeah, shoulder construction And we're gonna We're gonna we're gonna shout out her blog and social media. She's koska the cat Anyone who follows historical costuming for just about any time period is probably run across your social media and her blog Because she's amazing and she's so modest. She doesn't like attention. But my goodness koska the cat that's Catherine. She's absolutely amazing um But yeah, it's things like shoulder seams and the and the fitting Of that it turned out to be really unusual on isabel dress and there's no way That we would have known that without it was covered up by a fissue It was covered up And and the the picture she took The light somehow worked so that you could see through the fissue where you couldn't Something she was sheer enough. Yeah, sheer enough. Yeah, brilliant. So that was crucial. Yeah so fellow People in the costume communities the people that I mean it's amazing how The internet has made this possible to talk with fellow enthusiasts and people who sew and study and work things out and who are fascinated with the same things And will take the pictures And we'll go visit whatever Museum exhibition they thought access to that we're not all just looking strictly at museum photos But we can talk with people who have seen it through glass Yeah, but taken I mean My current gown project. There's been a few pictures taken by mirth of italia nasolaja and Cindy at red threaded that were Like, oh, I wouldn't know that museum photos. That's my current project right that kind of thing the fellow costuming the costuming community is The bloodline that I don't know it's just essential now and I was but I was going to ask you um Did you find that researching or having a look at other gowns of the same That were contemporary other 1780s gowns. Did that help you? decipher and And deduct a certain amount of deduction that has to happen when you're working just from photos Did that help or were there anything that was really relevant? Yes, and no, I would say the thing that helped the most in determining how I was going to construct it Was not I I can't possibly make an exact replica because I haven't seen it I haven't been able to examine how it was put together and honestly I'm not entirely sure that I would be able at this point In my sewing journey to look at an extent And be able to identify All of the stitches all of the steps in the particular order. Yeah, the thing that really gave me the confidence to do it Um was having made an earlier style gown from the larkin and smith pattern, which is really You know, they call it a workshop in an envelope. Yeah, I mean it gives you a grounding gives you foundation But I mean the stitches. Yeah. Yeah, the stitches the order of operations You know how the lining works and how the stitches work together to build the gown I used a lot of what I learned from doing that gown In this one and I mean gosh the the costuming community Um, I I did a post and I'm I'm gonna repost it. Um, just listing everybody who's how I remember that Yes, I mean so much support and so much guidance and so much, you know, what do I do with this fiddle a little bit here and you know just everybody, you know being so generous with their knowledge and expertise and You know putting all of that together the other thing that that was really interesting about this gown is that It's a little hard to see on the camera here, but it has The zone what we what we modern day call a zone front It's yeah, it's sort of a zone front and the original the stripes match, you know, exactly Yeah, no pressure So it's you know, the idea was that this might have been modified from a prior style and the the zone front was to cover Some, you know arm hole arm side I mean there was that there was a theory that that had been the case with this gown because It's very similar to a gown that's held at the net the pink the pink and white stripe pink and white stripe gown There's been a lot of scholarship on What that gown looked like when it first came to the museum it had been remade It had been retrimmed. It had been, you know, sort of and they were studying What modifications had been made to it to get it to its You know more recent state that they kind of had to like Undo some stuff to get it to wear because there was a point where the alterations Couldn't be fully restored. It had been I'm aware of similar projects and there was a certain right. We just can't go any further. Yeah. Yeah So in this case, I was really just replicating what I could see because yeah the end result You know, I can't I can't take the You know look at the original gown and see what it first looked like if it in fact was a modified gown And try to do because with the Isabella gown you could do that. You could sort of say, okay The sleeves were done this way. There was an error there. Yeah, so you kind of had to Replicate as we had to we had to learn as we went we could see what the end result was and we could tell Because there was no sign of any There's a little little pulse on the fabric that result from previous stitching There was no sign of it ever having been altered That this was unmolested original construction Yes, it's got it's not original condition. The fabric has aged a certain way and there is some moth damage but The actual construction the way the lining would it hadn't been altered to fit anybody else There had been no shifting movement of shoulder seams Of side bodice seams so no adjustments that way and given how many people are known to have worn this dress After the original after Isabella did her descendants Not just descendants, but people that her descendants married So there were people with no blood relationship to Isabella who wore her wedding dress Uh through through time and then there was a huge chunk of time time that it appears to have been basically in a trunk Undisturbed which meant it was out of the light And that's where you know met a few friendly moths, but um Yeah, so that unaltered helped um What we found that we Were puzzled by things that we hadn't seen in other extents and I say we as in collectively the team that amongst us amongst us Some of us has seen a lot more extents than others There's a few of few that were a few in our team who had not personally studied 18th century extents themselves So we were all benefiting pooling our knowledge and asking questions Well, what about this and some say I've seen that in something else and there were things about the original dress that We none of us had seen before and it wasn't until and That was a bit of a factor in Well, there's a whole another sideline as to how this project became not about replicating an original gown But doing being a demonstration of the process, you know, this wasn't about me making a replica for myself to wear this was a Or hang on this is pretty cool that mansion making as a skill was alive and well in the scottish highlands Who knew? It's one of those still black holes. Please. We're we're working on scholarship for is the actual garment making trade in the highlands but In exploring that and realizing actually we're we're definitely seeing contemporary modern might mention making techniques Coupled with techniques that were much older and we didn't know why there was this fusion or hybrid And the only way that came to light was to think okay. Let's start at the beginning and try doing it And because we were structuring the process with eight people converging in Edinburgh for one week and building address over the course of a weekend as a public event with a live audience people coming in and watching and taking photos and Asking questions and constant lot, you know interpretation through the entire thing that there will be someone on the team rotating talking about not just what we were doing, but what the situation was at the time about the What we knew of the garment making industry and the linen and wool industries and trade and dyes and Everything that we know to date, which there's still so much I mean, this is just such a rich rich rich feel for further research on so many different levels There's no way that one person can try to address all of it It's just everybody choosing, you know What's your little bit of the pie that you'd like to research this little thing and hopefully everyone collaborative collaboratively can can add to the general knowledge and understanding of fashion in A quite remote period or an area that people think of as very remote that was much more interconnected with the greater world than we tend to think but in with that was Once I realized we're dealing with something here that was unique a unique survivor There's nothing there's no other gown like it on a whole bunch of different levels And then it became a well Can we show how there's so many people who don't know how these gowns were made and we have an example here of one from The scottish highlands from a non elite woman. We're talking. She was not the daughter of a lord or a land owner. She was um To be honest the more I learned research with calling it class isn't Our precision of class doesn't map on to the way society was structured then I think class is a is a little bit of a Misfit. It's an ill-fitting garment to try to shoehorn people into but so somewhat of her Level of social standing and also the level to the degree of apparently, you know her interaction with world's wider society and who she knew and her connections and um economic situation and you know science for family her education Um, you know, we knew that she was not elite both of her parents were ill illiterate could not read or write Um, we do not know about isabel herself, but there are so many different factors here. We thought We can shine a light and reach as many people we can educate more people By doing this is a live demonstration and knowing that The way the scan was made was on isabella's body So that meant finding somebody That we could build dress on her body. So that was a whole different project than yours And there was no way I could have done that on my own or even with just one other person and so recruiting enlisting begging Making a case basically it was a business pitch To everyone involved to say this is what I'd like to do and this is how I intend to do it This is why I think is logical makes sense is funded Um, that we can marshal the right access the right resources and that we can pull this all together We can make this work and this is what I would like to be able to present to the public. This is Uh, the end goal being educational That I'm really really moving on to the next point here and I talk about over the project and goals, but Um, where was I going with this? I mean the idea being you know, what What was the what was your you we we kind of got changed But I like you I mean I and one of those things that percolates it percolates for a while I mean sometimes you spend months. I mean, I think in some cases some people have dream dresses and dream projects that percolate that just kind of uh, marinate marinate percolate what we're talking coffee and stew or something. Yeah food But for years decades, you know, almost a lifetime for whatever reason you just kind of put aside. I haven't got whatever But eventually and sometimes it's taking you take a first step Ask the right we're asked the first question of the first person that you talk to about it and it can blossom and then finally the you know It takes a lot of work. No, no, no this happens by chance But it's almost like the stars align in a this is the right time and place with the right people That we can do something remarkable and for you to do what you did All of that help was more virtual although you have you did have real life friends on hand. Yeah, I mean the actual work Yeah, there was there was a lot the the the pinning the draping and I you know because that was fitting to you I was fitting to yes. It was fitting to the dress form that I had You know put my stays on all the foundation garments. Yeah, so the pinning criteria the criteria is this must fit me Yeah, that was that was yeah, that was my goal was that this was something I was remaking um in order to be able to wear and um and the um, you know The scope was I want to prove to myself that I can do it. You know, it was it was really I Given the limitations I had given the limitations of obstacles. I wouldn't call them what your limitations. Yeah, no Things she had to overcome. Yeah, things that things that um, I couldn't really control um, yeah was the You know Not being able to see the gown not being able to hand of the gown not being able to examine Exactly how it was put together. Can I still produce a? You know a a reasonable replica and and in the in the sort of you know In the in the actual making of it Looking at things, you know looking closely at the pictures I had kind of figuring out how I could using the techniques I knew Make it make it look as close to the original as I possibly could that was my goal That was just you know, can I do this? Can I can I make it? Look about right knowing what I know not and and I really did try to Use, you know Period techniques that I had learned in order to achieve that, you know, I did not do the only machine stitching I did was the ruffles for the Tucker. Oh, right. Yes. Yeah, and the the um arm ruffles because I was you know milling milling. Yeah milling. Yeah, so not not the not the actual substance of the gown Not the gown itself the gown and and there were other hands who helped stitch it too in the you know in the final run up to Hey, we have yes, we have we have uh in the original Isabella gown. It's got at least two hands and I haven't had a chance to chase this up, but I understand and Nicole probably pitching a correct me shot But I think Nicole at American Duchess Thought that one of them was left-handed going two different directions. Possibly. Yeah, possibly. I'm not too sure I'm the one I'm the one you studied and recorded just the hems of skirt such a small facet And I knew that the stitch length an angle of the needle as they plied through because I'm a big one for following travel follow the thread And I could tell the angle was being plied differently and I just thought that's two different people I wasn't thinking left-handed the right hand because to be honest, I haven't a lot of experience with that I've since learned and got better at spotting a left-hander I have but at the time I just thought that is two hands in this in the hem and Given I mean this while we were spoiled with the the luxury of being able to study it in person Still there was never enough time. Right. I think I think we had About an hour and some of it got very kind of Complicated the first visit in January then Let's see the next the next one isn't about an hour and 20 minutes that parent and flora and flora's cousin as an extra pair of hands but and myself the four of us in April before the make and we were filming and parent With much more experience with studying museum objects of all kinds kind of Which I'm going to share a link to When we get to tips when we get to tips here, I'm like, where do you go? How do you learn and how do you know if I feel prepared there's a particular book that's really really important that anyone interested in in Studying an extent whether you're based purely on photos or In person is just invaluable and the book came out after Both of us did our projects. Of course. It is now, but it is now my checklist For any future project is anyway, but i'll post a link to that So and my also what it is because it's unfair. It's unfair not to mention it's called the dress detective and it's by two dress historians alexandra kim and ingrid Mida mida mida. She's an amazing dress historian. I follow her on Instagram cool, um, but it's called the dress detective and it is about being a detective and it's about The slow looking it's almost a it's almost a zen like way of not just looking but seeing and really The british expression clocking what you see as in going. Oh Eureka. Oh Seeing the meaning as you go and not just recording a bunch of stuff data measurements Colors the bunch of you know notes about textures and jotting down all these notes and then getting home and reading all through it and go Oh, I don't quite remember that Um, oh, I'd like to have another look. Oh, I did write that down and you know, I'm a little bit unclear about you and slow looking addresses so much of that And and good note taking but anyway that book crucial one thing one thing that I one thing that I forgot to mention was you can so in um In contacting the museum, you know the very first time what I had forgotten to say I did sort of feel like You know, what are my bona fides? What are my you know? Yeah, and and for me. I'm not a scholar in I'm not a formal scholar in dress history. I wasn't either. What I did when I did this What it's not it's not a barrier except in your head what I said was you know, I do historical interpreting I portray Abigail Adams. She was in France 85 the year of this gown I have I'm interested in it because it's something that she might have seen in her, you know socially And you know that was my in and that was can you imagine if she had actually ever seen the original? I know And and there's no that's the thing. There's no provenance given No as to the owner the wearer who it was made for Paris or anywhere else. Yeah, you know, it just says france 1785 And you know, so who knows it might have been You know Yeah, but I mean there's this you can't rule it out as something of another time and place We have a time and a place that yeah, so that's an interest plus. It's purple. So it was very Those were my credentials and you know, it was it felt poultry But the my interest and my enthusiasm for it were what sort of you know got me in the door And it is and someday I mean I've I've you know stayed in touch as I finished the gown I sent pictures of it and she said can we add these to Yes, you know our archival You know, yeah, she got this gown. I said, please do and when you know, when things are open again You know when the museum. Yeah, I was able to open again. I definitely want to ask her Would you be interested in having me bring the gown display it? Talk about my enthusiasm for it, etc So, you know, that is sort of in the back of my mind as a thing to do someday Do it I had that opportunity just before the coronavirus Where I was invited to go to Inverness and talk about the project with the recreated with the recreated ground Gown where I could show the audience, you know, turn it inside out Actually, they could lift it actually have it laid over their arms and feel how heavy it is with the original gown right there as well and when I was It was two speakers. I was the second second one And afterwards everyone crowded around, you know to be fair and I don't blame them More people crowding around the original. Yes, then around then around a dress that was made in 2019 Right, no matter how similarly looked A lot of the people in the audience had not been in the same room with able to get up close to an extent and Rightly so and that is why we made this gown This this demonstration of how it was made Chose to not do an Inverness, but to do it in the museum where the original had been moved to Had been put on loan for A period of about It was think it was on display just over five months But it was with the National Museum of Scotland in Edinburgh for about nine months In total it was with them which meant that was nine months that it was not on display in Inverness It's normal home where, you know, everyone knew knew it. Um, that was why That proximity to be able to do it and say When you go on your lunch break, you know, take a break from watching us stitching and cutting and swearing and Mopping our brows because it was it was about a hundred degrees Fahrenheit It was over 30 degrees Celsius and we were working in full glare of sunlight. There was no shades No, but we needed the light. It was the most amazing sewing light. I've ever Operated it. It was amazing, but it was so hot. Everyone is hot. You know, it didn't matter And you were all dressed. You were all dressed as 18th century dress makers. We were I to be honest I don't think we were any hotter though than the people are Spiring people in the audience in their shorts and tank tops. I mean, yeah, it didn't matter what you're wearing. You're hot Yeah, um, but anyway, but we could say, you know, have you gone? Have you gone into the exhibition and seen the original dress because that exhibition You go in the entrance and you've got this little bit of you know Can display to set the scene a bit of interpretive material and the around the corner and the first thing you see in the center Not against the wall, but in the center glass cage where you can I mean glass case we can walk all the way was Israel address Yeah, that's so pride of place. Um in a 360 walk all around it up and down absolutely nothing except glass Between you and it from every angle. It was really remarkable and we could say have you seen it if you haven't Watch us for an hour and then when we get to a point where we're just where we're not Modeling something on Georgia our model when we're actually just sitting around the table stitching. Go look at the original You know, it's here and that was that was really key and and then to be able to Give another talk and reach another part of the public in the inverness area people who had not seen us make this dress in inverness But people who knew the original that they could get up close to the original and then Inspect ours and we get our photos taken up them together now. I only have phone snap shots But the museum I left the recreate address with them for up to it was just about three weeks And they mounted it and put it on display With the original with interpretive materials that I've provided in photos from the project That's so cool and talking about it so it was had a little mini exhibition for three weeks And they had a professional photographer come in and photograph them both And then corrupt then lockdown happened and the museum had to close they couldn't work anymore and Understandably rightfully so the curators, you know, basically furlough and I'm not I believe the museum is open now, but I am not going to be chasing them to see these photos just yet It's too soon too soon and everyone's got other priorities But that was very exciting for that little bit of you finished the dress But that's not the end of it and it is that whole project the whole process is part of you now It's part of your history part of your I'm with Kate. I will be in rows and her Discussion is that I don't like the word journey, but it is it's a process. Yeah, and it is part of your History your life experience So, I mean, what do you feel that you've learned from Your project the most what's coming through for you? Oh really, um just, you know for myself my follow-through sometimes is Is lacking I get really excited about a project and you know enthusiastic about it and passionate about it and and I sort of sometimes I just kind of lose, you know motivation or something frustrates me and I put it aside, you know I'm I saw my project steps in I mean, you know it it I had a goal. I had the costume college gala And I really wanted to wear the gown to the gala. I people had been sort of, you know aware of the project I was not on instagram yet. Um And more is the pity because I feel like, you know, it would have a lot more documentation if you did on instagram I mean, it's all it's all it's all documented on facebook, but um, but the you know the I had I had such a A sense of community as I was making it that I knew those people were really rooting for it and really You had that support and so being able to say, you know, it's done. We did it. I made it. It's ready. Yeah, um was You know that to me was, you know, this is a project that and there's still, you know There's still probably a few things I could do to kind of really, you know Have it feel um Finished but it's you know, it was it was wearable for gala. It was it was ready to be debuted, you know We were presenting we were presenting this to an audience five o'clock on sunday was still a lot of pins of stuff in the back And we were then needing to be exiting and cleared up all of our stuff by a certain time that evening And we were frantically still And there were a few things that I later After I got home and decompressed it took a couple of months actually to kind of come back to it There were a few things that the whole team had said those couple things just kind of Just a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. So those got done those did get done. I mean that was that was really, you know That was my my proudest Thing about it was that it you know, it got finished and I had like I said, I had huge amounts of help With you know, just getting those final little fiddly details done, you know My mom was stitching the hem until kind of three in the morning or something Um, you know things like that that just you know, it did happen But it was not just me But it was the it was it was at a point where you know, it needed these last few things done And yeah, it was it was feasible. It was doable Um, we've got the we've got the video and the footage and everything which we're going to share here to prove it That you were you were you were the height Parisian fashion Um in 1785 which actually it's really remarkable But you know, it's similar for me in that the the the main takeaway was Wow, we did it as a team with Oddly enough in a weird sort of way I sense the world was watching and everyone was rooting for us. Yeah um They I mean there were hiccups and there were all sorts of logistical issues and there were yeah Things that came up that you know with museum National Museum of Scotland had never hosted never, you know served at the venue host for an event like this before and they Didn't really believe our assertions that people would come to see this that this would be interesting that That we could put bombs on seats as they said that and it was Each day it would trickle. It'll be a little bit slow They we had a handful of people and I'm I'm I'm don't think I'm under estimate you said there were at least six Who came to Edinburgh stayed in Edinburgh. They stayed in hotels. They ate the food They spent their tourist dollars on Edinburgh for Us Yeah, that in some cases they didn't even really see the exhibition in full they came for us and they were There when the door opened they got their seats and they were with us 10 to 5 Two days in a row. Wow beginning to end and that Is incredibly humbling it's incredibly home that that it's the commitment It's not just the interest and then people don't act on it and people but they you know And then people say oh, I'd love to see that and the number of people just oh love to see that I wish I'd seen it. Oh, you know, I knew about that but I had something else on the people who flew I mean with us for five or six people at least three of them flew they had airfare hotel Food expenses everything and they gave up their weekends at home with their families All the other things they could have done at the height of the summer in the best weather They were in a hot Hot room in a museum to watch Eight people make a dress And And and yeah, but it's it's and it's the community It's the love and it's the community and the interest and the relationships forge to with us You know, it's our team of eight. It's like a trial by fire. We had not all eight of us Worked together before we'd had we'd had sort of a master class That week we did a lot of crash swatting, you know studying, you know, like revising for an exam all of that But the crucible was two days and crucible getting me hot. It was yeah, I mean we cannot under us We cannot understate how Hot it was. Um and how heavy This brings us to the point of fabric of the materials materials So On timing we are still recording it as we've gone on for a bit I think it's going to be fine and to be absolutely honest given the way a lot of the live panels have gone on coca this weekend I'm going to do minimal editing. We are just having a fantastic chat and Trying to cut it all down and cut stuff out would be More than my sanity is worth Yeah, I wouldn't try So yeah materials. I mean, how do you figure out what you need and what oh man? It's just a story It just compromises it's accessibility. It's price. Okay. So you this fabric did not exist No, that you could find commercially available. I wear looked everywhere I searched every fabric store online that I could think of I searched through and you were asking You were out there asking everybody online tips, you know You weren't just relying on just the places. You knew you were no I searched it out there I searched the new york fashion district. I searched the la fashion district I looked everywhere for purple and white striped silk fabric that was not Shear that was not, you know, wide stripes. It's a fluffy And not slubby. Yeah particular width of stripe and particular weave. It didn't exist And eventually, um So, you know, it was like, okay I don't want to I don't if I don't have to I don't want to compromise on The fabric because the the fabric is the is the statement of this piece, you know The shape is a fairly standard, you know, 1785 zone front gown. It's not Revolutionary in any way other than this dramatic Purple and white vibrant stripe. Yeah, so, um, you know to make the gown I needed the fabric and I found I searched and searched and searched etsy ebay, you know, everything I could think of I found an etsy seller Who sold candy stripe silk? But not in purple. She had blue green pink No, every color but purple. So I messaged her and I said, you know, if you in your You know fabric search come across a purple and white stripe Please let me know. I would happily, you know, purchase that from you. She says, well, and she's she's in australia Oh, right. She says, well, I'm going on a shopping trip to china soon. I'll keep my eyes peeled, etc, etc So eventually she says, you know what? I'll work with my weaver We can do a custom, you know, we can do a custom weave Um, they are in cambodia I'm in australia I'm happy to, you know, facilitate this, um, to, you know, pass along the payment However, that might work for you. There's a minimum order of 50 meters Yeah, okay Any time you do a custom order Yeah, it's a minimum order It's not worth their while and warp set up takes so long once the warp is set up It almost makes no difference how much they weave but they have to make it worth their while So so for my little project, I certainly do 50 yards but Yards again meters. Yeah. Yeah, okay. So then but this is where the community came in because you know, I posted I'm Gonna order fabric. Yeah project. Yeah Is there are there enough people who would also take 10 meters of this fabric for Whatever projects you have in mind And there were so, you know, I Basically, you know, facilitated getting money from them. Yeah And then at one point the the etsy seller had said, you know, if you're sending me money and I'm sending into cambodia There's too much loss in the transfer. Yes. Yeah I will I will I will accept a finder's fee essentially, you know, and you pay the weaver Yeah, I think it's best if you handle, you know, and I did like Western union or something. Yeah. Yeah all told With a 50 meter order including shipping and she they cut it into 10 meter Right. So you had five five people each getting 10 meters. Yes. So you only needed 10 meters. Yes. Yeah And all told it came out with shipping to $22 a yard a meter Wow Which for a custom order, that's not much different than Any of the other sellers I heard Yeah, yeah, yeah, you you can't actually beat that in some of the bargain places like now fabric Fashion fabrics club and then incredible deals. They sometimes do on silk Wow, so all told, you know, this international project all of a sudden truly international turned out to be You know, and and again, it it would not have been possible without having a community to go to and say Yeah, you know, I'm doing this wacky thing Who else wants in? Yeah, you know, so um price is important. Um, sorry, I don't want to Continue because I the fabric and price thing is an interesting thing So the fabric was the main thing now. It's not the same weave as Most half it as you would find it's a looser weave and I have I did have that To contend with in the making of it I couldn't Treat it the same way and I couldn't necessarily even really sew it the same way As the taffeta I had worked with for the 17 60s ish gown I made before this one. Yeah, I had to sew it And I found this out the hard way with the seams. I couldn't just leave a raw edge No, and let it sit and wait to work on it. Um, so there were some issues that I came up with that but The overall look Is, you know, the final results It's not it's not it depends on the light the you know, the the final result of the purple Is a little bit of a duller, you know, overall aspect than the original But there was never going to be the exact same fabric. So, you know, I have the The satisfaction of knowing that I did You know, the very Anyone could you made all the right inquiries and you found You found a weaver who could do it. Um, yeah, I tend to do this with projects though I go on I go on fabric wild goose chases and it takes, you know, I It's got to be exactly right My my aesthetic when it comes to if I'm replicating something that is an extent or an is is in a portrait You know, it's really important to me to be able to replicate it as closely as possible and I will I will wait, you know I'll wait until the right thing goes along Yeah Yeah, I think everyone's got to make that decision for themselves. Whether there's something about the project and the what they want to accomplish with it that um As close as close a copy of the fabric or the textile is crucial or whether that actually Is more open-ended and you know, there's all sorts of real life issues, you know time It takes to get stuff made or to find it And price price is price is for most of us the Most important kind of limiting factor in what our options are to explore how close can we get But there are some projects some museums some gowns that what you really want is yeah You're calling it a replica, but perhaps your dream is something quite different with isabel address for a lot of people The dream was to have a tartan gown in their clan tartan Now the original tartan set this design this layout it predates the organization of tartan designs into family affiliated groupings. It predates The register for tartans. Um, it comes from a time where everyone who How to how to there was a lot of industrial production of tartan That was being made that this on spec to be sold wholesale in retail So the design house or the mill would make those decisions. We're going to you know make, you know How many ever I think l was the measurement the the unit of major Then we're just going to make a whole bunch of it and we're going to market it and we are we're sure what there'll be a sufficient demand that it's attractive enough that it will all sell and then there were small Weaves that were commissioned and that's what isabel's dress obviously was was what A tartan historian peter mcdonald I think refers to as a rural mcdonald Peter mcdonald refers to as a rural weave as and it's not industrial for A as a commercial enterprise would have been of course commissioned and paid for by someone who was skilled at weaving And again that was a skilled trade and if there was a weaver in your village That's what they did full time and was their economic contribution and was what enabled them to then barter and buy and earn cash As they're living they made their living out of that You know very sophisticated skill that took a lot of time to learn We don't know who commissioned Or who designed Whether whoever wanted that particular length of fabric to be made said I want it mostly red or I want A certain arrangement or whether there was a certain latitude that the weaver took in terms of what they could have available in The the quantity of worsted spun yarns that had been dyed certain colors and the quantities they had of each We don't know any of those factors that went into the isabel address But because it is quite distinctive and being the only survivor I felt That we needed something as closely as possible Also my very first encounter with the original dress. I was so stunned at how different a worsted spun A heavy wool, you know, we're talking kind of 20 ounce weight in modern time in modern so as when we're looking shopping around for wool and we're kind of looking at weight ounces that's usually how they're described and I had just kind of assumed I have not really thought about Worsted spun yarns versus woolen spun yarns which come from whether the fleece You know going back a step, you know, was the fleece combed or was it carded? Does it come from a crinkly coated fleece sheet braid of sheep versus a long lustrous fiber Breed of sheet all of those things that feed into it. It all produces a very different textile and that was my first encounter with hard tartan, which is What historically 18th century that's you know, it shifted it did change to woolens It did change to the textile completely went through revolution and change and transitions into the 19th century, but Hard tartan and it was so distinctive. I thought I've got to get as close as I can get and I am not Kidding that was the hardest part of the project all the inquiries all the leads That dried up and came to nothing and people didn't respond and I found the original breed of sheep Not extinct. Yeah, then finding. Okay. Well, what's an alternative? appropriate characteristic fleece breed of sheep that is you know, that is producing that you can get the wool commercially Okay, probably blue face lester then finding blue face lester that was Creamy colored that could be dyed a lot of blue lester The purposes that that yarn is sorry that the fleece is developed a yarn for Also, the purpose is the color and dyeing ability is not crucial And so everywhere I was talking to you. Well, we can get you brown or black Yeah, can't dye it It was then it was okay. Well, if I can get the fleece and I kind of had a lead I was talking with a couple of people a couple of different Spinner spinning I want to say farms, but anyway, a couple of enterprises in shetland about shetland wool Shetland fleece is not illustrious long fiber fleece, but it's often it's it's it's fairly readable. There is a commercial Demand for it to be worsted spun So I talked with two enterprises that they're both of them, you know recommended to me One was like We can't help you very regretful friendly helpful, but regretful. Sorry. We can't do that The other place was just rude. What what you know, you know, it's like, oh, you know, stop interrupting my day it was I'm not going to say which is which because as it happens they both have incredibly similar names I don't know if they're related. I don't know if there's any common Back story anything like that, but one was friendly, but sorry. We can't help you and the other one was don't want to know So then it was like, okay. I Approach spinning guilds. Do you have any elderly members with experience in worsted spinning? And it was basically lack of response because of the sheer amount and I needed to get enough worsted spun yarn to be woven into 26 inch limb width on a limb and I needed 20 meters of it and 20 meters. I was being incredibly cautious. We only needed about 10 for the dress But I was terrified something would go wrong And that I mean that is also why And it did and it did. I mean it's like every stage of this It was like you get knocked back and so that's not possible. What are my alternatives? So then I was using I was using fabric that was wide that was I mean 9 60 inches wide So, you know, so do you have no selvages then which affects construction? Yeah So but then you know using using, you know, historical dress lengths and widths widths lume width Lume widths is you know, that wasn't a challenge No, no, and I think if you're dealing if you're dealing with a Weaver who is used to serving a modern-day market Negotiating with or even bringing up the question of bloom widths may just not be It just may it might be a pointless conversation and only Not necessarily confuse them, but it may kind of give them a flavor of They're not going to make you happy and you're not going to be happy with What you provide So you just kind of don't want to go there when it became clear that I could find someone to do a bespoke weave who had The kind of looms that we could at least specify the width and then thread count and that weaver had already taken a thread count Had examined the it had she'd examined the aerosaid portion. So she wasn't up Examining the dress but the Kind of shawl like which was cut made obviously made from the same length This was made in woven the same time as the fabric that went into the dress So it's all the same length of fabric. It's just been cut. Um So once we had that within okay, we we need it as close as possible Well, the loom that she had was not exactly the same as an 18th century loom and the yarns that eventually she was able to source through her contacts and her suppliers was not exactly the same It's called a gauge or weight, but it was not exactly the same We ended up with the first weave coming out too narrow By about 10 it was about 23 inches wide And because we already knew that georgia Our model that we'd be fitting a dress too Was a little bit larger in size than what we knew Isabella was from her dress I mean, that's like a body, you know, like that tells you everything about an original body Is to look at clothes that were made bespoke fitted to them So we I just I said we need to re-wave Or look I'm basically I threw myself face like Claire or we've Claire. I can't use this She says we're on it where we'll work set up today. We're anyway So, yeah, and that was another delay. I was quite panicked So there's all these little things that you're thinking You inform yourself make an informed decision You make a compromise and I kind of feel like we are getting to the point where we kind of need to do a bullet point list of well things for things for our friends who are watching this to be I think some of it is decision-making in terms of what you want and what is possible for you what you can do And I also don't want people to think that, you know This the way we've described getting the fabrics for these very different gowns Might sound daunting and you know, I think both of us, you know, both of us had particular, you know, if you're going to display the gown alongside its extent Yes, you want it to look As close to the original as possible because you want to be proud. Let's let's let's no get around it You want to be proud of your work? And I mean mine mine may or may not end up, you know, you will be proud of your work But but I mean, you know for me that's that was my priority and that was my willingness to you know Do that legwork and do that And and that doesn't have to be the case you don't you know, you shouldn't feel like oh my gosh It's got to be exact or perfect. There's no point bothering. No, this is absolutely true because for me the The the ultimate goal was education and to serve that purpose. We could have used any fabric Truly we could have demonstrated but then on the other hand, we could have been To do a demonstration of making a gown that would be using period techniques and and the way it was done by Mantra makers then we could have been replicating any gown or no gown It could have been a generic gown we could have done a demonstration But because I wanted to be specific show people that this this was a Scottish Highlands gown That was not upper class. This was not a rich woman's gown. This is a surviving Normal person like you and me, you know a normal everyday person just Trying to make a living and live their lives in the Scottish Highlands Yeah Had access to someone who had the skills to make a dress like this for them But I mean it was my point and it could have been any fabric But I think it was that knowledge that because the original dress was already so well known and so well loved and so so many people Wanted to know how it was made had attempted to make their own clan tartan versions of it, but there were I there were aspects of the construction that I knew that nobody had the You know the sheer good fortune to see in person and I wanted to share that knowledge as well and it just became a case of I wanted this dress to be recognizable and I that's I think where you have utterly succeeded it almost Some of the details don't matter But if your goal is that with somebody looks at your dress they they know what dress you were thinking of Even if it's not a direct copy Yeah, because otherwise, I mean that was that's what that's where it all starts with each of them Well, that's why that's the gown you fall in love with that is the gown you fall in love with And if you're making something else that is even perhaps even more beautiful or more spectacular or has Some incredibly special thing about it But that's a different gown And I think if you've fallen over the particular gown you want to end up you want your end result to be Ah, it's you know, it's mine. This is mine of that amazing remarkable thing that you Saw and that just grabbed you that was your hook and you just couldn't let it go It was not like other gowns. You see so many gowns and you just pass by. Oh, that's pretty. Oh, that's pretty. Oh, yeah Second look. Yeah. Oh, that's pretty on and on. You go and you go. Oh You know like no more collars. We have a winner. No more calls. Yeah Yeah, so I think Kind of wrapping up. I mean it is I'm gonna my mantra my mantra as a teacher and well started as a student and as a secretary in a very high Pressure job within is managing expectations and in the It's it's not just about managing other people's expectations. It's not managing your own not being too hard on yourself knowing what is realistic Making you know doing enough investigation fact-finding to figure out what your options are And then making an informed choice that you're comfortable with and sometimes you make a decision You think I'm going to proceed this way. I'm going to make this is going to do it a certain way And you proceed down that path and you're not quite happy with it And you've got to go back a step or even two steps in that process and go I need to revisit this decision and do something different or Um talk to someone else get Someone else's viewpoint. I think I need before I can proceed. It's always it's a stop step It is often three steps forward two steps back but My point is that it is being comfortable with the decision process make Decision making process as you go along at the end of the day. It's your project It's your gown or your suit or whatever it is you want to make It's yours And you are the only person who has to be happy with it And I mean you you had the ability to You know really look at the gown stitch by stitch and see How it was done and you know be able to sort of replicate that. I know my privilege there I know how privileged and and and I couldn't do that but I you know, I felt equipped to You know Make educated decisions on the pictures and based on you know the knowledge I had of You know 18th century dress making which is still you know, I'm I'm no expert. You never saw it But from what I had done I felt that the decisions I made in Recreating what I saw Were sufficient to make me feel that you know, it's plausible It is possible that it could have been made in the way I chose to do it You know, there might be nuances and the more extents you study the more you realize they're all different There's more than one way to skin a cat There's basic there's basic approaches and basic things that obviously menstrual makers and dress makers were being We're learning or being taught. There was a certain kind of just a general way of doing things But the individuality in every gown even down to stitch choice. It's not everything done the same way Which is exactly you said that's a very good point plausible Yeah, can you if asked can I Not that we expect to be put on the spot with you know, like an exam or a hostile question or just something This isn't a diet or a question. Yeah. Yeah, we're not depending on but You know Can I justify my choices a bit or explain the compromises that I make and Because the minute you start talking about the challenges you faced your options that were before you and why you chose the option that you did The minute you have a chance to even express a tent of that to somebody everyone's on board the sympathy is like Oh, yeah, yeah, I would have done the same in your shoes Or yeah, I could have been other things that maybe I would have done a different But yeah, I totally get why you did what you did So yeah for anyone who is you know dreaming of this, you know, a gown or an ensemble or any embroidered soap process, you know Whatever it might be whatever it is. Um, you know, I think that You know, if you are allowing yourself giving yourself permission to say Whatever it is that fabric As it is the way it was made isn't Feasible a hundred percent now Because you know the weaves are different the the shirt You know, whatever it might be there's we'll never have the same And that's why you have to be happy if you're comfortable. Yeah, there's no way to 100 percent in all aspects of remaking a museum, you know an extant ensemble or gown You you have to give yourself permission to allow for those circumstances that There's no way to do it a hundred percent and where where you're willing to kind of you know Because you can't get exactly the same fabric Give yourself permission to make those changes to how you would stitch it in order to protect it from fraying, you know Yeah, and give yourself full credit pat on the back for being a problem solver I think that is something all the way through that the different things you encounter at different stages Is that you will have to be A problem solver which means being positive and proactive and Surviving the little bumps and the discouragements and the knockbacks And at the end of the day, how whatever you whatever you end up with even if you're kind of thinking Oh, I could have done better and I'll tell you you learn so much during the process That by the time you finish, you know, you almost wish you could start all over again You could do you know, you're thinking I can do this better the next time and you end up with um No, I'm not I am not going to have three Isabella dresses you know, no, but absolutely at each stage that you Are able to progress to the next stage pat on the back, you know Treat yourself with some yeah All around because you've solved the problem and this these projects They are a series of hurdles each one could be the one that stops you if you let it And if you don't let it beat you The success I think the the end result the the whole thing. It's it's that much sweeter I think at the end because you're looking back at a whole Line of problems that you've solved. Yeah, you want to see him We want to see your success Coco vid next year. I think we have a showcase or a gala of People who in the intervening year between our talk and next year. It's like yes, let's have a You know, these red you know instagram stories Whatever, you know the all the stuff that I'm doing this year and I think it's even happening today We hope it'll be back to real life, you know, coco in person But yeah, but but to be honest we can widen the conversation with so many people doing it virtually What we can't do is Get up close and you know costume college We would have been in a room where everybody could come and Feel a little and even unmount the dress forms for a short period of time to have people So people thought that the insides and we could have shared a lot more photos of process But to be honest this talk is not about these individual dresses or even 18th century or even women's wear or Western european wear or You know anything that's limited in time place culture any of this this This is this is a universal Challenge that I'm putting out. Yeah. I mean we really we really hope that you want to make it might not even be textiles I think there's a fair point to be saying that even if it's something You know that came out of a bog 2000 year, you know from 2000 years ago and it's rotted away um, I think I think there are Talks from others this weekend about various medieval things or people who do that kind of thing If you explore their channel that might not be what they're talking about this weekend But look a little further elsewhere on their channels and you'll see some just Incredible reconstruction work of all sorts of objects Not just clothing from all eras and all parts of the globe from all time periods and cultures and Yeah, there's no limit other than what's in your head and no and we want we want you to feel empowered I mean empowered to to You know, not just look at the item in the museum and dream Yeah, but then it is dream your dream and then you make it happen and it will be Your unique unique to you and it will be stamped everything about it will be stamped with your personality and your goals and Your abilities and your community Yes Yeah Yeah It takes a village. I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding And I think on that note are we have we got anything else that is Burning that we managed to cover it all the two hours Yeah, I'm I'm a little bit worried now about the editing, but um gosh Gosh because it just we it's one of the talk for hours And it would be I am so looking forward to doing this as a premiere where we actually can But anyway, I think we do need to say kind of Bye for now Um, and you know what because this is all the whole context the way this whole happened Coronavirus I'm going to end with Be safe. Yes Wash your hands Wear your mask I can only echo those sentiments Would Abigail have said had something yes pertinent to say She she hauled herself and her family and 17 people to boston to be inoculated Against smallpox. Okay, which watch this space on future vaccines personally. I'm quite a cynical person I'm not that confident. There will be an Completely effective vaccine, but follow the science That's all we can do really And hope to see you all soon as many of you as possible in the coming Weeks months years So long Bye for now