 And welcome to the Creative Life, a collaborative production between Think Tech Hawaii and the American Creativity Association. I'm Darlene Boyd, your host, and joining me today as our guest from Rancho Mission Viejo is Kelly Otto. And Kelly is going to continue to talk with us today about international education and some things that are very personal to her in terms of the risk taking that she has taken in this field. We like to start out by clarifying some of the concepts we're going to talk about and on the creative life. We attempt to bring you stories about people that are creative living creatively in their lives, and also what create creativity means to our guests and to the world in general. So there are many definitions of creativity and the one that fits us best today is is one that is not often referred to but one that many of us in the American Creativity Association refer to us too often. And that is that many people in dealing with creativity make the assumption that the idea just comes out of somewhere and it's that aha moment. Well, that's not always the case. There are many researchers that would tell us that we're accruing ideas and input for those ideas since the moment that we're born and, in fact, Mara Stein refers to them Kelly is endoseps and then as we accrue them we we form an idea. So when we take the concept in this in this definition that we enjoy in creativity. It doesn't. It means that we will look at something that already exists and break it down in relative parts, and then bring it together by reconceptual Reconceptualizing that idea and its parts into a new idea. And that's what we'll be talking about when we talk to Kelly and start out by asking you Kelly. You were working in international education for many years you're recognized as an expert in your field and in addition to your expertise you're also very trustworthy. But in addition to that, you have taken on the role as CEO of your own company unit us tell us what that means tell us a little bit about unit us and why you selected that is the title for your company. Well, thank you darling it's really a pleasure to be here with you. I worked for 25 years in international education. California Irvine. Specifically, the division of continuing education, building the certificate programs, internships, and customizing training and creativity to me and the reason why I started unit and where I got that name. Now, many folks may say, Johnny, you know, I have some football friends that said Johnny, you know, you named your company after Johnny, you know, I said, No, no, no, no, no, not Johnny, you need us. And we need us means oneness or unity. And especially in this day and age with with all of the unrest going on in this world. I thought we need us would be a perfect name for my company. I started when you test international education consultants in April, 2021. And I've worked on and off for many, many years with very creative, innovative teachers in various fields, like teaching English, entrepreneurship, finance, accounting. Now, you may not think that accounting is that creative, but obviously it can be to some folks. And so, creativity and in pulling these amazing people together is, is really what is about and how I can bring education, higher education, more specifically to the world. Thank you for that explanation. And I hadn't thought about Johnny Unitas until you brought that up. Clearly it's not, not someone that I often think about, but perhaps others have that thought as you as you brought it to our attention. But there's something else that you just said in the in that overview, and it triggered a thought in my mind to take us back to the mid fifties, when President Eisenhower put together a people to people initiative. And so that was international programs brought about in the mid fifties. And if I remember correctly, the purpose, his purpose was, it was post Holocaust. And it was causing us and he thought that having a people to people type exchange would help fight the war against bigotry, hate, misunderstanding and unnecessary conflict. And sadly, I think I correct. I don't hold me to the year, but I believe the people to people initiative has ended in around 2018. So Kelly, the reason I say that you triggered that thought because we know right now, we're, we're in a societal situation where we're dealing with bigotry and hate and misunderstanding. What's very controversial with international education right now is the threat, perhaps, are those that are interested trustworthy, or are they here to steal ideas, or are we going somewhere to adopt or adapt ideas what are your thoughts on international education, possibly being similar to Eisenhower's goal and mission. Well, there's no doubt that there's a concern with intellectual property, especially at university. Most universities are very cautious and careful when they sign partnerships with other universities. There's a lot of vetting that goes on behind the scenes. There's risk management lawyers that look into these partnerships. But one thing I do want to say, and I think that this really brings it home. International education is not just what we think of automatically study abroad. Well, let's send my son or daughter abroad for a semester or a year. It's inbound students. There's researchers, teachers, faculty exchanges, staff exchanges. It's quite extensive international education when we throw around that term so easily. It's quite all-encompassing. And when I mentioned study abroad, back in the 1990s, 30 years ago, when you think about it, there were only 70,000 U.S. students that studied abroad. Today, right before the pandemic, there were about 347,000 students study abroad. Now in 2020, it went down to 162,000. But when you consider the fact that there's probably 19 million college students, 347,000 is a drop in a bucket. And vice versa, when we talk about international students inbound, there's also the concern that we're admitting many students, overseas students or out-of-state students, because they are higher tuition fee. There's only 400,000. There were only 400,000 students that studied in the 1990s in the U.S. And today, it's just a little over one million. So again, when you think about the millions of students to study abroad or inbound here in the U.S., it's very, very... And so I encourage study abroad or welcoming international students. It changes the dynamic in the classroom, inside and outside of the classroom, let alone bringing thousands of dollars to the community, actually millions of dollars to the local economy. And you may not think about it in that sense, but when you do think about one student renting an apartment, living for a year or two years, and really integrating into the economy, that's quite a bit of revenue coming in to our local economies. Interesting figures that you've shared with us. We always play around with the titles of shows, and we added to this show cultural capital in the title. And cultural capital was chosen because it takes us back to our limited work, at least for me, limited work in sociology. But the cultural capital takes the looks towards the social assets within an individual, and then promotes the social, those assets can work and be developed and enhanced. That will promote the social mobility in some kind of stratified society. So as you're talking about international students, and if we think about third world countries, if there is an opportunity, and that's what the Eisenhower People to People program did, it was all encompassing, not just an unfunded opportunities for people. How do you feel about cultural capital? Do you think international edge, do you hold that international education can really enhance someone's cultural capital? Almost definitely. I'll give you an example. Some of our certificate programs, they were designed specifically for international audience. Perhaps you and I would take a certificate program, not full time, it would take us maybe a year to complete. But we offered these programs in three months, and up to 200 hours of classroom time. And so it's pretty intensive. And when you think about it, we are bringing in students from all over the world. So I may have a cohort of students that may be 40, and there's 20 countries represented. Imagine, it's truly the mini-UN in the classroom, because these students are learning in the United States, in English, but with students from throughout the world. How better of an opportunity can you be exposed to so many different cultures from South America to Europe, Asia, Indonesia, Africa, North Africa? It's amazing what students learn. And it's the very first days to see the students all very nervous and very, very quiet. You don't, you stare at somebody in the classroom, who is this person I'm going to be with for the next three months. But in a matter of weeks, they are the best of friends traveling all over the U.S., not just enjoying their time in our beautiful country, but really learning from one another and how similar that we are. And of course, I'll say this is a funnier side, but there are many students that have gotten married out of our programs. And I think, oh my goodness, and I see them on Facebook now. Hope you have children in your living lives. It's amazing what our programs are, or what international education can actually do. For domestic students, I say welcome international students into the classroom, because if you do not have an opportunity to study abroad, there are so many that can't afford it. I believe that there's, the facts are, the predominantly study abroad is funded through families, your family, and working. So, clearly, there's many students that cannot afford to study. It's too expensive. It takes too much time to do it. So, I say welcome international students into your classroom, because right there and then, as I mentioned with our other international students learning from one another, you've been getting so much in terms of cultural competency. And it goes beyond the funny things that we all laugh about at certain countries, people don't come on time, whereas other countries, people come exactly when class starts at two o'clock, they're there 10 minutes before, and they have a certain expectation. So those are the funny things that we all laugh about. But when you do talk about these things in a classroom, and it just brings about a much more openness, a better understanding. And so, for international students, I say welcome them into your classroom. Kelly, your passion comes across in the few minutes that we've been talking. And I just addressed that or highlight that because passion is an important dimension of creativity, the creative process, especially if you're going to hopefully succeed in selling your pitch for your idea or the process that you want to bring forward. So, with that being said, this idea of passion, clearly you must have had a passion to stick your neck out and take the risk of going on your own. Did the pandemic contribute to that in some way? And also, perhaps I'm not the best risk taker if it involves a salary or survival. I don't know if I would have been on the edge there during a pandemic to step towards and move ahead, but you did. So talk a little bit about that. Well, talk about your stress, Kelly. In the last two years, I've really thought about it, nighttime, and I'm thinking, watching TV, thinking, how did I get here? And I'll go back to when I was a child and my mom is a great cook and she had some great ideas. I'm going to make sushi and I'm going to sell sushi. I was talking back in the 1970s and there was virtually, I would say no such thing in California. People would look at it and go, you're eating raw fish. What is that? And now look at the revolution in sushi. But it starts with your childhood and what you brought up with. And I remember thinking, I'm a good cook. I want to own my own restaurant. And now, to be honest with you, I'll microwave anything and eat whatever's in front of me. It doesn't work. But it got me to think, how did I start this? Well, I've always had that entrepreneurial spirit and trying to think outside of the box. And in academia, there's so many times where we think only very rigid inside the box. Researchers don't play because where you get great inventions, but in a higher ed, you're bound by the degree programs. And that's not me. And that's why I think I strived in continuing education because I could pick up an idea. And I created a certificate program in business continuity planning for local professionals right when the pandemic hit. And I thought, I really need to help businesses. Or, who need us came because, to be honest with you, I had a really tough boss at one point. And I realized he didn't have a clear understanding of international education. And he came to me one day and said, Kelly, you're a director today. But it'll be fine. You just need to create 10 international partnerships. And I just held my breath and thought, international partnerships are not easy. How many 50,000, 60,000 universities and colleges are there in this world and would all want something different? I don't think you understand that it takes relationship building, trust, understanding, flexibility. And flexibility in all forms. It's the education, what you can fit into this education, what they need. They may say that they want one thing, but really they can't afford it. The university, for example, may not be able to afford US prices. And so you have to be flexible and come up with some solutions. And so being told to develop 10 partnerships, it really spurred me to say, you know what, I'm willing to do this on my own. I've got some connections. I can help universities. It takes a long time and trust building. I can do that. And I can make it easier, let more cost efficient or effective for the universities than our partner. In our conversation this far, I've highlighted university and made some references to universities, but to me it would seem the most exciting part of your independence now is dealing with students from other countries that are adult students and also interested in being entrepreneurs themselves and learning as much as they can. Now, you are respected in the community, you mentioned the connections you have, and you probably call upon those now that you're independently on your own. But what kinds of adult students does unitists attract? Really good question. There's all forms. I've just completed an online program. The University of Columbia engineering students, primarily masters degree students. And they are part of a leadership program and engineering management. And we created an online asynchronous and synchronous program in innovative product development. And so we have master's degree students, but I'm also designing some programs for a California State University for low working professionals. What do they need? They need a career or they need a career boost. I'm taking a look at the industries up in Northern California and trying to figure out what can we design that can quickly meet their needs. So it really runs the gamut from international students to working professionals. What countries are most interested in pursuing international education with you right now? Oh gosh, Spain, Brazil, Columbia, France, so quite a few. And again, many of those are through my longtime affiliations at my former position. But again, I think that demonstrates the fact that international education is really about building relationships, building that cultural competency, so to speak, and understanding what they really are seeking. Many times universities look and they look at me and they say, Kelly, we want universities on the west coast in Canada. And I say, okay, but what are you really looking for? Degree programs? What kind? You want vet medicine? Well, there are some federal regulations and laws that we have to take a look at before we do something like that. It's very diverse and you have to wear many different hats. And I'll say the word, we hear it so many times, but creative and innovative and see how you can. For me, this is a big part of creativity is how can you solve someone else's problem? You have a problem? How can I help solve it? Obviously, the international education programs are expensive. Do many of your folks that are your clients, do their companies pay for them? Or are they bearing the burden themselves personally? Yes. I think both. It really depends. So if I'm working with a group from Brazil that they are an executive MBA students, many of them, their companies are sponsoring their education. But there's other students that are working and paying for it or the university as part of their academic credit will pay. Are you doing much by Zoom at this time? Yes. Does that help with the cost for a client? Very much so. I'm very pleasantly surprised. I think what US universities have to understand is that education for many countries is expensive. And so when you give them a price of whatever a program is going to cost, many times they'll be shocked. Can't do this. And so that's where the creativity and you step in and say, okay, here's what we can do. And we somehow meet in the middle and whether it's financial or length of time, let's figure out how we can meet in the middle and provide an educational opportunity. The one thing that for me for all of these years and why I stayed in international education is really the joy that you see and the transformation that you see on your students faces. The very shy lack of confidence student may at the very end, it could be a two week in person session here. They are completely transformed, much more confident, able to survive. And I wish when I was younger, I was smart enough to study abroad. I was too scared. And now so for me, it's, it's that, I don't want to say motherly aspect of it, but it is nurturing and trying to push students. This is something you can do it should do. There, there's a list of, it's easy to find a list of benefits of international education. No, so we, we know when we probably would agree that international education transcends national borders very easily. We have heard that one of the strongest instruments for reducing poverty can be international programming. And I suspect when you see that, that statement that probably implies that the skills and the knowledge base that is going to be gleaned from participating is going to make that student more mobile have upward mobility when they return. Would you agree. Yes, definitely. The interesting fact is that 70% of study abroad students from the US are quite another 10% Hispanic another 10% Asian and probably about 5% African American and it goes on from there. And, and you realize again when you start talking about they're doing it with their own finances or they're working. That means that those students that work and put themselves through college cannot or do not have the time or the money to study abroad. And so that is something that needs to change in this country where there's grants for support for students to study abroad. Again, I say welcome international students into your classroom to because there's history there we all have history. And, and, and when you understand where people are coming from. I think you have a much greater appreciation, but I truly believe that we're preparing students to be global citizens but much more so able to function in this world. And when we talk about so often the unrest and, and the borders being closed. That's not the answer is turn off everyone because we've all come doesn't matter if you are quite on the outside, we've all come we all come from different places. So, once you shut that down. You don't have the ability to learn from another and to be better, a stronger nation in the end. Kelly, it seems like we've just begun to to touch and skim just off the top of international education so there's so much more to be said but we are at the end of our time. And I thank you very much for for being with us today. Thank you for your research and your curiosity and your passion comes across and I hope we get to talk to you again and we wish you well. Thank you. So with that, you have been watching the creative life on think tech Hawaii, and plan to join us again in two weeks when we return with us some more stimulating interesting topics in the area of creativity and until then, Aloha. 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